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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-04-22

---Logopened Sat Apr 22 00:00:19 2017
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02:25<@Alberth>hi hi
02:25<@Alberth>auzind is the new extreme ?
02:25<@Alberth>94 industries :)
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02:34<andythenorth>seems to be :)
02:34<andythenorth>I didn’t try it yet
02:35<andythenorth>curious how the mini-map holds up
02:35<andythenorth>also map gen
02:35<andythenorth>I think map-gen will fail at < 512x512
02:39<@Alberth>it doesn't seem to have much planming :)
02:46*andythenorth downloads it
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02:47<andythenorth>lot of parameters eh :)
02:48<andythenorth>I guess Garry isn’t using double-size UI on a 13” laptop
02:48<andythenorth>the minimap industry list fills nearly half my screen :)
02:54<andythenorth>eh Garry has drawn vineyard vines
02:59*andythenorth needed some vines
03:03<andythenorth>lots of ideas there
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03:10<@Alberth>garry is quite creative :)
03:12<andythenorth>shame he doesn’t have the version with graphviz docs
03:12<andythenorth>industry chain view would be fun to see
03:16<@Alberth>don't think graphviz could draw it :p
03:16<@Alberth>hmm, hack nml compiler? :p
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03:24<andythenorth>be nice if nml had the option eh?
03:25<andythenorth>it’s built the tree
03:25<andythenorth>it’s just another output format at that point
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03:25<andythenorth>actually, more flexible would be having nml dump json
03:25<andythenorth>that’s a missing feature :D
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03:34<@Alberth>you can make these things quite generic, basically dump content of a grf in a human-readable way
03:34<@Alberth>overview of engines + graphics + stats
03:34<@Alberth>list of houses + size + years
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03:46<andythenorth>json -> html etc
03:46*andythenorth doesn’t need it, but eh, might be useful
03:49<andythenorth>eh will I stump up and draw a limestone quarry?
03:52<@Alberth>I think you have to eventually, nobody else will put the pixels in the right order
03:53<@Alberth>it might be easier to parse the grf
03:54<andythenorth>grf2html :P
03:55<andythenorth>I solved it by parsing the configuration, and cutting out intermediate formats :P
03:55<andythenorth>but my approach seems to be…unusual
03:56<@Alberth>it needs programming skill, which most pixel artists lack
03:57<@Alberth>people tend to be either programmer or graphics artist, the combination is quite rare
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03:59<andythenorth>sometimes I think of trying to make my stuff more generic
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04:00<andythenorth>at this point, configuring vehicles is just stupid declarative python
04:00<andythenorth>it has less to go wrong than nml, as long as you mind the syntax
04:00<andythenorth>but eh, more interesting things to do :)
04:03<@Alberth>over-generalizing means sacrificing flexibility, which comes back to bite somewhen in the future :)
04:03<@Alberth>doing shopping, bbl
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06:04<Wolf01> Meow
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06:14<Eddi|zuHause>learning foreign languages is a useful skill
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06:47<Wolf01>Mmmh, need a new printer driver
06:48<Wolf01>Also I need to connect the printer again with usb
06:48<Wolf01>The printer is 2 stories below
06:56<@Alberth>use a long cable
06:57<Wolf01>I need a 40m usb cable
06:57<andythenorth>I have a 3.3m one
06:57<andythenorth>get 12 of those
07:00<Wolf01>I need to realign the printing heads too
07:01<Wolf01>Maybe not... the alignment page is perfect, but when I print text I get a shadow on the text
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07:20<Eddi|zuHause>i think i have a 10m-ish usb cable
07:24<andythenorth>“UserWarning: The installed version of lxml is too old to be used with openpyxl”
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07:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm, cable is probably more like 5m
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>it was longer in my memory
07:30<@Alberth>the joys of open source, only support the latest :)
07:30<@Alberth>cable might have shrunk
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: yesterday there was an article about how many programs embed open source tools in very old (and vulnerable) versions
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07:36<andythenorth>> some
07:36<andythenorth>< all
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07:57<@Alberth>Eddi: yep, and that's only the tip, think of all embedded devices, and we'll get even more, with Internet of Things, just crackers heaven
07:57<@Alberth>and we give ample possibilties, by connecting everything to each other
08:20<andythenorth>Industry Station Names: Literal | Esoteric | OpenTTD Default
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08:31<Eddi|zuHause>didn't you ask that already?
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>or is the question which thesaurus entries you put into a randomized order?
08:36<andythenorth>if I ask enough, an answer will happen
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>so what's the difference between "literal" and "openttd default"?
08:40<andythenorth>literal = industry name
08:40<andythenorth>OpenTTD default = dunno, haven’t tested, I’ve been using FIRS for years with industry names :P
08:40<andythenorth>one might accuse andythenorth of not really caring about station names
08:40<andythenorth>but other people do, so eh
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so drop "default"
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: make "literal" the default, and find a better name for "esoteric"
08:58<andythenorth>‘blah’ :)
08:58<andythenorth>‘random’ would be best :)
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>there is no "random"
08:59<andythenorth>that depends on how you view time
08:59<andythenorth>looking back from the future, there might be
09:04<andythenorth>all it needs is Wolf01 to add the callback
09:07<Wolf01>I'm adding callbacks to delete single cached items on my app right now
09:08<Wolf01>And I found I'm totally stupid as I cached just the hash and a boolean, so I can't know what they are if the item with the actual details is no more on the list
09:09<Wolf01>If this happen it might be a good thing to delete the relative cache anyway
09:09<Wolf01>Maybe automagically too
09:13<andythenorth>april fool’s jokes get less funny over time
09:14<frosch123>andythenorth: Explicit | Metaphorical | OpenTTD default
09:14<frosch123>it's 3 options, i think eddi doesn't know what "explicit" is
09:15<andythenorth>explicit = town name + industry type name
09:15<Wolf01><andythenorth> april fool’s jokes get less funny over time <- should I apologize?
09:15<andythenorth>maybe :D
09:15<andythenorth>I thought of trolling to extend it, but that’s not fair
09:16<Wolf01>Maybe I could do it :>
09:21<frosch123>hmm, it's not tuesday
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09:25<andythenorth>that’s only a matter of time
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: what are you talking about? i thought people taking april fools for bare truth is the best part of april fool?
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: you could, however amend the original announcement a little to clear things up
09:37<Wolf01>Only time will know ^_^
09:38<Wolf01>1.8 might be the "road warrior" one, and 1.9 the "waterworld" one
09:39<Wolf01>Speaking about waterworld, I have a weird scenario in mind
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of waterworld, ic111 asked about inclusion of his river generation patch, and possibly his timetable patch
09:47<Wolf01>ic111 river patch is the one for realistic rivers?
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>"rainfall river generation"
09:47<Wolf01>Yes that
09:48<Wolf01>I'm fine with that
09:49<Wolf01>But my vote doesn't count :P
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>i've kinda lost track over whose votes count :p
09:50<Wolf01>I think we should ask V
09:50<Wolf01>His votes count :P
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>i can't see anything good coming out of that approach :p
09:51<Wolf01>He might just answer "ass"
09:52<frosch123>was there any progress with the river generation?
09:52<frosch123>last thing i remember was that it made landscapes even worse
09:53<Wolf01>Like now they aren't bad enough?
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i don't know, but that sounds like the kind of issue that could be worked out by actually talking to each other
09:53<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: sorry, i gave up on that after mhl
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10:24<Wolf01>...deploying new app version on the phone...
10:36<andythenorth>frosch123: no random station names then? o_O
10:37*andythenorth might try to patch them as a parameter now
10:37<frosch123>random station names would not be industry related
10:37<frosch123>also they would not be random
10:38<frosch123>compile-time randomness possibly
10:38<Wolf01>Fixed + random
10:38<andythenorth>FIRS v3: the many parameters edition
10:39<andythenorth>station name parameter
10:39<andythenorth>enable / disable industry founding date restrictions parameter
10:40<andythenorth>max distance to a supplier / consumer of industry cargos parameter
10:40<andythenorth>^ last one might be dodgy, could cause _all_ industries to cluster into one quadrant of map
10:41<Wolf01>I would prefer min distance
10:41<andythenorth>as a praameter?
10:41<Wolf01>So you won't get a forest near to a lumber mill, like 10 squares
10:42<FLHerne>Can we have a primary:secondary ratio parameter? :P
10:42<andythenorth>it’s default 16 in recent versions Wolf01
10:42<andythenorth>fixed in last few weeks
10:42<andythenorth>or maybe 20
10:42<andythenorth>can’t remember
10:42<Wolf01>Good then
10:42<andythenorth>was annoying
10:42<Wolf01>A lot
10:43<andythenorth>FLHerne: in principle yes, in practice, I’m not coding that
10:43<andythenorth>that is a lot of conditionals :P
10:44*FLHerne not surprised
10:44<andythenorth>although it would probably just be a tree eh
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11:28<Wolf01>I was thinking to become a professional contributor, but actually I don't know enough, also I'm really slow if I'm not in the mood
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: wouldn't it just be a simple multiplication of the construction probability property?
11:39<andythenorth>it would have to count the industries on the map
11:39<andythenorth>by type
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>why would it need to be that exact?
11:43<andythenorth>that’s what he asked for o_O
11:43<andythenorth>oh no, maybe not
11:43<andythenorth>ok I defer to you on this one
11:44<andythenorth>gah thank fuck, my test passes
11:44*andythenorth has been fixing same test for 30 mins
11:44<andythenorth>it was a legit failure, took ages to se
11:44<andythenorth>see *
11:46<andythenorth>if this was £295 cheaper, I would buy it, looks like HEQS
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12:29<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you have a reasonable expectation of prices for H0 models :p
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12:47<andythenorth>I buy US stuff
12:47<andythenorth>it mostly loses value when imported to UK
12:47<andythenorth>EU stuff…no
12:48<@Alberth>ha, transporting vehicles with hovercraft :p
13:06<Wolf01>Wtf is starcraft brood war downloading, the whole internet? Full bandwitdh for 20 minutes so far
13:07<@Alberth>the starcraft operating system?
13:07<Wolf01>Worse than the microsoft store, I can't even open a webpage
13:10<frosch123>it doesn't work with stock wine though
13:10<frosch123>apparently you need overwatch-wine
13:10<frosch123>it's 2.8 gb
13:11<Wolf01>I played on wine, is the problem since last patch?
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13:15<Eddi|zuHause>i still haven't found a nice way, if i have a src.rpm, to simply inject a patch on top of it, and build it the same way that the original rpm was built
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13:37<quiznilo>I have ships bringing Farming Supplies to a station, station says it accepts Farming Supplies, however, they're piling up on the docks
13:37<quiznilo>a port
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13:39<quiznilo>now forest is using Farm Supplies... sort of
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13:42<quiznilo>what's it doing?
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>did you tell the ship to "transfer"?
13:42<quiznilo>nope, shared orders are displayed
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>does the same station provide and accept supplies?
13:44<quiznilo>yes, indeed it does
13:45<quiznilo>so... I should make a new port, out of range of this firs Port?
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>no, make "unload and leave empty" orders
13:46<quiznilo>I have some patchset, I don't have that option
13:46<quiznilo>I have 'unload by cargo type'
13:47<quiznilo>'unload all wood'
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>the "leave empty" bit is the important one
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>the "unload" bit is only to flush the currently undeliverable cargo out
13:48<quiznilo>'noloading' gave me 'and leave empty'
13:48<quiznilo>so... testing
13:49<quiznilo>oh hell, I see now... the port itself is generating farm supplies... primary industry
13:49<quiznilo>nope, (unload by cargo type and leave empty) is still leaving farm supplies on this dock
13:50<quiznilo>trying just (unload all and leave empty) now
13:50<quiznilo>still leaving farm supplies on the dock
13:51<+glx>probably those originating from this station
13:51<quiznilo>wish I could just tell forest to use farm supplies that Port is outputting
13:51<+glx>your ships picked them earlier and deliverd them to this station
13:51<quiznilo>it's a FIRS port, it is indeed self-generating farm supplies as a primary industry, I didn't even notice it
13:52<+glx>as they were probably not accepted by the other port
13:52<quiznilo>they did, I just give ship orders to go to dock, which accepts farm supplies, and it started the primary production, I didn't even notice the port there
13:53<+glx>always try to set "leave empty" when you don't expect to load something after delivery
13:53<quiznilo>the easiest solution it seems to me is just put up a second dock for farm supplies, create a ship to move Port-generated FS from one dock to the other
13:54<quiznilo>the second dock would be out of range of the port but in range of the forest
13:54<quiznilo>good tip, I'll remember that
13:54<+glx>stations "supplies" cargo only if there is a demand
13:55<quiznilo>yeah, I've 'dirtied' many stations by sending some train to the wrong station at an industry and had to delete the station and change a bunch of train orders
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14:04<quiznilo>I will be using waypoints more in my layouts also, I think that they're better than creating a bunch of different stations at an industry
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14:11<@Alberth>newer openttds stop accepting "wrong" cargo after some long time
14:11<quiznilo>wow, that's good to know
14:19<supermop>yo andythenorth
14:20<supermop>when does arc furnace become available?
14:34<supermop>found this when looking for photos:
14:35<supermop>no Idea what i'd use that for but I want one
14:39<quiznilo>can you buy a mill like that, and then tape on an arduino thing, or RPi and have insta-CNC?
14:39<quiznilo>well, add motors too of course
14:39<supermop>quiznilo: probably not, as you'd need a ton of motors, actuators, etc
14:40<quiznilo>mill has to be CNC
14:40<quiznilo>actually, I'd take a non-CNC mill
14:41<supermop>probably won't find one much cheaper than that, but building a cnc milling machine would be fun
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14:59<quiznilo>would love to get with a bunch of hobbyists, rent a shop somewhere, buy all these toys
15:00<quiznilo>3d printer, milling machine, lathe, electronics gear, everything
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15:04<andythenorth>there are people doing that
15:04<andythenorth>maker labs
15:05<quiznilo>there aren't any close to where I live, cept the one in South Philly
15:05<quiznilo>hmm... maybe I should start one here
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly does "CNC" stand for?
16:09<@peter1138>computer numerical control
16:15<frosch123>a "rotary cutter" is operated by hand and looking at analogue measures
16:15<frosch123>a "nc rotary cutter" is operated by hand while looking at digital numeric displays
16:16<frosch123>a "cnc rotary cutter" runs on a program
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>i think this is something for andy
16:24<frosch123>i like the comic strip in the first comment
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18:03<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you can have loads of fun in pripyat, if you stay away from the most obviously contaminated areas
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18:15-!-funnel__ is "funnel" on #vserver #virt #uml #tor #suckless #smuxi #sd #qemu #pwmt #powerdns #perl #pentadactyl #ovirt #openttd #openbox #oftc #munin #moocows #monkeysphere #mm #mci #linuxfs #linode #kvm #kernelnewbies #igloo #gcc #gc-linux #freedombox #exvm #ext4 #dzen #debian #debian-mentors #debian-it #debian-ipv6 #debian-hurd #debian-glibc #debian-fr #debian-boot #debian-arm #davical #cursive #ck #ceph #bitlbee #awesome #apparmor #antlr #acal
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18:15<Wolf01>I could be interested in one apartment, if they make a good price
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>if you get tired of buying H0 models on ebay:
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18:20<Eddi|zuHause>strangely, the prices don't properly scale 1:87
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 200000/87**2
18:21<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 26.4235698243
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 200000/87**3
18:21<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.303719193383
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 200000/87
18:21<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2298.85057471
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18:37<Wolf01> lol
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>so, is that a good or bad thing? :p
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18:46<__ln__>"Möglicherweise kein Versand nach Finnland"
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20:05<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: might be tricky with the gauge difference :p
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20:41<quiznilo>are 'nml' files called 'animal files'?
20:43<quiznilo>this is about the best programming instructions I've ever read: (06:58:27 PM) ran_tao: This is his wife drop him from this game
20:43<quiznilo>not that
20:43<quiznilo>krushia | find lists of all the towns in california/nevada/utah/mexico and script fu badabing badaboom pow in that format and voilaa
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21:52<quiznilo> what is the second number associated with the town?
21:52<quiznilo>*second field
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23:50<quiznilo>my first NewRGF
23:51<quiznilo>SW Town names... is even better, without Paysen repeated
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 23 00:00:20 2017