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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-07-04

---Logopened Tue Jul 04 00:00:56 2017
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03:00<V453000>just a quick little test from weekend, felt like sharing :)
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05:07<Alkel_U3>what, the good ones were already taken
05:08<Wolf01>Some money just flew away... car day (insurance, fuel, test) :|
05:18<Wolf01>So, is there some Alkel for F?
05:19<Alkel_U3>Not before there is some Breakfast for A
05:19<Alkel_U3>(I pretty much just got up)
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05:26<V453000>yo mf
05:26<V453000>just a small and dirty test from weekend :)
05:28<andythenorth>dunno why you bother
05:28<V453000>well it is shit :)
05:28<andythenorth>ha ha
05:28*andythenorth has 3 tubs of slugs in the garden
05:28<andythenorth>rotting in beer
05:29<andythenorth>beer attracts slugs
05:29<V453000>poor things
05:29<andythenorth>slugs die
05:29<V453000>sounds like humans
05:29<andythenorth>all slugs must die
05:29<V453000>doesn't it
05:29<V453000>now we're talking
05:30<V453000>how are you?
05:30<V453000>I feel like making some slugs lately
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05:30<andythenorth>I am kicking on
05:30<andythenorth>not sure about FIRS docs, bit shit
05:31<andythenorth>pixels are awesome obviously
05:31<andythenorth>but the docs… :P
05:31<V453000>what with docs?
05:31<V453000>if they aren't awesome then they need more pixels?
05:31<andythenorth>that’s not the internet
05:31<andythenorth>unless I fucked up my firewall :P
05:32<andythenorth>doing proper responsive design, instead of shit responsive design
05:32<andythenorth>I dropped the picture of the industry in the header :(
05:32<V453000>what do you mean resnponsive?
05:32<andythenorth>make the window smaller, you’ll see
05:32<andythenorth>grid changes at breakpoints
05:33<andythenorth>wtf is that bbc paste? try
05:33<V453000>no picture in header is gay
05:33<V453000>Get started = wall of text
05:33<andythenorth>get started is awful
05:33<V453000>need to attract the customers to make big $$$$
05:33<andythenorth>I got bored and fixed economies instead
05:34<andythenorth>maybe I need some new art
05:34<andythenorth>not just the industry images on the grid
05:34<andythenorth>normally such images
05:34<V453000>industry images on the grid are consistent with what the thing is :)
05:35<V453000>random fillers are useless
05:35<V453000>FIRS picturz it is
05:35<V453000>you have so many of them after all
05:35<andythenorth>I do
05:35<andythenorth>could put two or three side by side
05:35<V453000> /me should stfu since his nuts wiki is a fucking mess too
05:36<andythenorth>or I could annotate
05:36<andythenorth>“Such pixels”
05:36<andythenorth>“Deliver coal here"
05:36<andythenorth>“Animated shit"
05:36<andythenorth>or like a blue print
05:36<andythenorth>blue prints are always good
05:36<andythenorth>or the concept art?
05:36<V453000>u haz concept arts?
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05:37<andythenorth>and even from this year, recent ones too
05:37<andythenorth>concept art -> finished picture?
05:37<andythenorth>bit internal to me, not really what you play
05:37<V453000>=D nice
05:37<V453000>could be nice to use on some page :)
05:37<andythenorth>isn’t it
05:38<andythenorth>some big screenshot maybe?
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05:38<V453000>bug: changelog page is too long
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05:40<andythenorth>is great
05:40<andythenorth>shows value for money
05:40<V453000>changelog is very nice for people who just want to see what up
05:40<V453000>I should have made that too
05:40<V453000>but well, fuck it now :D
05:43<andythenorth>V453000 what is user need to see pictures in header?
05:43*andythenorth adding some
05:43<andythenorth>but just gets in way of words, no?
05:44<Wolf01>Mmmh, the biter's nation is attacking
05:45<V453000>with that idea you could say every picture gets in the way of words, no? :P
05:45<V453000>IRC master race
05:45<andythenorth>sometimes the words get in the way of the pictures
05:46<andythenorth>refresh and shit
05:46<V453000>idk I feel like people nowadays are so lazy to read that you need to constantly catch their attention with pictures at like each paragraph before they get attention from they facebookwitterstagramwhateverelse
05:46<V453000>I shit
05:46<andythenorth>docs should notify you a lot
05:46<andythenorth>why doesn’t openttd have notifications?
05:46<V453000>idk does it need all 3 of them? :D 1 would be enough
05:47<andythenorth>preferably on all my devices
05:47<andythenorth>1 looks shit layout
05:47<andythenorth>when centered
05:47<andythenorth>“your train has arrived”
05:47<andythenorth>we need that stuff
05:47<V453000>put slug factory there then
05:47<andythenorth>and a daily event
05:47<V453000>oh wait
05:47<V453000>v@_ v@_ v@_
05:48<V453000>666: slugs not found
05:48<andythenorth>unique header per page?
05:48<andythenorth>like, a monocolour crop of a cargoflow for economies
05:48<andythenorth>and concept art -> pixels for changelog
05:48<andythenorth>and stuff
05:48<V453000>I'd just use a different industry for each page
05:48<andythenorth>it’s random
05:48<andythenorth>javascript innit
05:48<V453000>kind of like I use thumbnails for my shit
05:49<V453000>random is fine if you want to keep text important
05:49<V453000>otherwise each image immediately becomes "related" to the category/header
05:49<V453000>not like it matters much probably
05:49<V453000>bigger problem is not having slug farms
05:51<andythenorth>how do you know not secret slug farm?
05:51<andythenorth>easter slug
05:51<V453000> /me immediately starts playing OpenTTD
05:54<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: ready to launch
05:54<Wolf01>Already there :P
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05:55<Alkel_U3>so where do I connect again?
05:55<Wolf01>Wolfolo's game
05:56<Wolf01>It might take a bit with my poor 320kpbs up
05:56<Alkel_U3>oh, right, xDSL uplink :(
05:57<Alkel_U3>want me to host it on my VPS for you?
05:57<Alkel_U3>or has the connectivity cleared up since last time? :-)
05:57<Wolf01>It just works
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05:58<Alkel_U3>I just hope the horriblelags from last time will not be there
06:24<Deactivated>I ain't see wolfolo's game wolf01
06:25<Deactivated>having probs with getting to master svr I guess?
06:25<Wolf01>Some people already connected, but with more than 1 client I lag too much
06:26<Deactivated>so as a result of the lag data to the svr just breaks?
06:26<Deactivated>*data to the master svr
06:27<Wolf01>Aren't you trying to connect to factorio with ottd, are you?
06:27<Deactivated>wait wtf
06:27<Deactivated>so it's factorio
06:27<Deactivated>kill me
06:28<Deactivated>alright so I guess I'm out
06:29<Deactivated>oh god pls dun...
06:29<Deactivated>break my connection
06:29<Deactivated>no welcome svr LOAD
06:29<Deactivated>wheew 18 seconds connection lost when I joined
06:31<Deactivated>toyland... ok I take that
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06:42<andythenorth>V453000: if in doubt, moar
06:42<andythenorth>tiny pixels
06:43<Wolf01>Alkel_U3: I'm updating my ubuntu and then get something for lunch, I should come back in a bunch of minutes
06:46<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: ok, ack
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06:50<V453000>OMG IT SMALL
07:06<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: I can't make it visible and don't know why. It's just reachable on
07:12<Wolf01>Mmmh, how do I extract a xz archive? gzip doesn't seem to like it
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07:33<Wolf01>Yeah, tar -xzf
07:33<Wolf01>"not a valid gzip"
07:33<debdog>the archive might be broken
07:33<debdog>erm, try without z
07:33<Celestar>.xz isn't gzip? :P
07:35<Wolf01>7zip works
07:42<Wolf01>Uhm, maybe I did somethinf wrong with the symlink, ls shows every file, the autocomplete instead finds only folders
07:45<debdog>autocompletion of which command?
07:46<Wolf01>Paths in general
07:47<debdog>well, behaviour might change per command
07:48<Wolf01>Tar doesn't seem to see files
07:49<debdog>it should only see files which end with proper archive file extensions
07:50<debdog>(or tar's autocompletion definition is broken)
07:51<Alkel_U3>so, are you dealing with xz or tar.xz file?
07:51<Wolf01>I usually download tar.gz
07:51<Wolf01>But this came up
07:52<Wolf01>(is the factorio headless, btw)
07:53<debdog>touch test.tar.xz
07:53<debdog>tar -xf tes<tab>
07:53<Alkel_U3>did you try giving tar -J argument? (for xz archive)
07:53<debdog>hmm, works nicely here
07:53<__ln__>Wolf01: if you say z to tar, it means you claim it is indeed a gzip archive.
07:54<Alkel_U3>"tar -xJf file.tar.xz" should do it
07:54<Wolf01>Yeah, it did it
07:55<__ln__>also try without z or J
07:55<Alkel_U3>also, it's usually best to leave that part (z, J, etc) out completely, tar usually finds out what kind of compression it's dealing with on its own
07:55<Wolf01>Ok, I always used it because I was told so :P
07:56<__ln__>don't trust what people tell you on the internet
07:56<__ln__>except us
07:57<Wolf01>It was my sysadmin
07:57<__ln__>does he play openttd?
07:57<Wolf01>No, he dislikes the pixelated graphics and 32bpp does not please him
07:57<__ln__>so, there's the problem
07:59<@peter1138>tar used to require those options, at some point it gained detection
08:00<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: server crash
08:00<Wolf01>Noticed it
08:01<Wolf01>And now which is the password for the new user I just made? XD
08:02<Wolf01>Better set a new one
08:02<__ln__>peter1138: and of course, we're only talking about gnu tar here.
08:06<Wolf01>Yeah, installing 188MB of python stuff
08:07<Wolf01>(also useful if I'll need to put my dirty hands on nml one day or another)
08:08<__ln__>your dirty paws, you mean
08:08<Wolf01>Yes, paws
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08:12<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: back up
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09:19<Wolf01>Are you sure?
09:48<@peter1138>do it
10:11<Celestar>how ya been?
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12:05<wookey1>m new here
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12:46<Eddi|zuHause>debdog: damn, too late
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13:41<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: yeah, I should probably go outside or do stuff, too :P
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14:05<Wolf01>Do you see things moving on belts too? It was a strange thing to see on the dining table XD
14:06<Alkel_U3>no but that will come when I'll be trying to fall asleep
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14:26<Wolf01>Who let the frogs out? :D
14:44<andythenorth>such pictures?
14:44<andythenorth>in the header
14:44<andythenorth>"probably fine”
14:45<frosch123>they do not slide
14:45<andythenorth>I should carousel? o_O
14:45<andythenorth>carousels are evil
14:45<frosch123>and they are always five, instead of filling the whole width
14:45<andythenorth>these are…ideas
14:45<andythenorth>also they are true random
14:45<andythenorth>i.e. they can repeat
14:46<frosch123>yep, most-rigth and most-left are equal currenlty :p
14:46<andythenorth>boom, double repeat
14:46<frosch123>same here, aabbc
14:46<frosch123>did you save the seed?
14:47<andythenorth>I should write another javascript
14:47<andythenorth>if all 5 match, you get a popup offering a prize
14:47<andythenorth>mini-game :P
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14:50<andythenorth>I think the economies page will ship like this, unless anyone has improvements
14:50*andythenorth can then do the other pages
14:51<frosch123>the zoom stuff always fails the first time after browser restart or something
14:51<frosch123>does it use cookies to work?
14:51<andythenorth>dunno if it’s cookies, didn’t check
14:51<frosch123>i clear them on restart
14:51<andythenorth>:o EU Cookie Law!
14:51*andythenorth has no cookie statement
14:51<frosch123>gluten free?
14:52<andythenorth>frosch123: Eddi|zuHause is disappointed by this graphviz layout
14:52<andythenorth>graphviz docs basically say “no layout control, get over it”
14:53<andythenorth>I have adjusted the industry chains in a couple of economies to make the graphviz layout nicer
14:53<andythenorth>but too much of that seems unwise
14:53<frosch123>you have some layout control iirc, but what is bad about the picture?
14:54<frosch123>too many parallel lines?
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>it's too wide for the amount of nodes in there, the long stretched lines are difficult to follow
14:54<frosch123>well, provide a better hand-drawn one
14:55<frosch123>otherwise i doubt there is a better manual solution
14:55<frosch123>and thus no better automatic solution
14:56<andythenorth>shame there’s no aspect ratio weighting
14:56<andythenorth>or maybe there is
14:56<andythenorth>that graph could scale to 70% wider, and 30% taller, with more acute angles
14:57<frosch123>there is a "ratio" property for that
14:57<frosch123>for the manual layout there is a "rank" property
14:58<frosch123>never used them, so no idea what the result is
14:59<frosch123>e.g. you could put basic oxygen furnance, stell, stell finishing plant into a subgraph, and assign rank "same"
14:59<frosch123>ther should draw them vertically
15:01<frosch123>you could also try to draw top-bottom with rankdir
15:01<frosch123>but maybe that is weird
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: while i generally dislike these (too common) edge-cases of graphviz where it just doesn't look right, i learned that trying to fight graphviz to make it look better is mostly futile
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15:10<nekomaster>So I ran into a coding error again that I can't figure out
15:11<nekomaster>Line 58 : Unexpected token ")"
15:12<nekomaster>I grabbed this code from the 2cc Trains DSB S Tog II code (graphics + item code)
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>at first glance i would suspect some macro expansion going wrong
15:18<nekomaster>I dont even know what that is
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>also, there is no ) on line 58
15:18<nekomaster>but the compiler keeps complaining about it
15:18<nekomaster>nmlc ERROR: "src/EMU/EMU_PRR_MP54.pnml", line 58: Syntax error, unexpected token ")"
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>try to look at the corresponding .nml output file
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>(warning, may be huge)
15:22<nekomaster>I think I might know what it is maybe
15:23<nekomaster>seems like its looking for an ID range and I forgot to change that all
15:24<nekomaster>Weird thing is that bit of code doesnt seem to match with the ID range I actually set for EMU's
15:24<nekomaster> #define ID_RANGE_EMU 0x32C8..0x36AF
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>you're using ID_RANGE_UNIT_WAGONS
15:25<nekomaster>and those have a different range in my VehicleID then the 2cc trains does
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>also, going back to what i originally said, a "#define" defines a "macro", and a "macro expansion" is replacing the macro name with its content
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>and it turns out i was right
15:28<nekomaster>well at least I know now how to fix this ;P
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15:52<nekomaster>Now I have a new issue >_>
15:53<nekomaster>I would like my EMU cars to have No Pantograph/Lowered Pantograph sprites for unpowered wagons and Pantograph (Up) Sprites for the Powered MU wagons
15:54<nekomaster>But I dunno how to get the code to only show the pantograph wagons when I add a Powered MU Wagon
15:54<nekomaster>"MU Car (Powered)"
16:07<andythenorth>frosch123: if there are tuning parameters, I could set them explicitly per economy
16:08<andythenorth>but leaving the rest of the graph automatic
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16:51<andythenorth>I just killed some more
16:51<andythenorth>drowning in beer
16:57<nekomaster>With my code here for a MP54 how do I make the Powered MU Cars have a different graphic then the Unpowered cars?
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16:58<nekomaster>I'd like it so that Powered MU cars show up as sprites with Pantographs (or with the Pantograph in the up postition)
16:58<nekomaster>And unpowered cars have no pantograph (or have the pantograph down)
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause>nekomaster: in the livery_override sections, change the "default" callback
17:03<nekomaster>This is what I have for the default section
17:03<nekomaster> default: switch_EMU_PRR_MP54_cargo_selection;
17:03<nekomaster>that applies to both powered and unpowered wagons
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you need to duplicate that switch, so one chain ends in no-pantograph sprites, and the other chain in with-pantograph sprites
17:04<nekomaster>How would I do that? I'm not well versed enough in NML to start taking swings at doing stuff myself
17:04<nekomaster>I'm mostly just trying to understand the code I reuse
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>you copy-paste that switch, and call one "..._with_pantograph", then you do that again for all switches that switch references
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>until you end up at a spriteset
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17:10<Eddi|zuHause>(there's a way to avoid copy-paste by using STORE_TEMP, but really, that's probably beyond your level of programming)
17:10<nekomaster>Honestly I barely even know how to go about doing anything
17:10<frosch123>hmm, kate became usable again in the past 2 years
17:10<nekomaster>Its a wonder how I've even made a set as big as NARS Add-on, then again makign locomotives is pretty easy
17:11<frosch123>it's now better than in kde3, while it was still way worse like 3 years ago
17:11<frosch123>i didn't dream it would ever recover
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>i use kate on windows... i'm terrible
17:12<nekomaster>What is KATE?
17:12<frosch123>it's kate
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>probably some acronym containing the word "editor"
17:12<nekomaster>I dunno what that is
17:13<nekomaster>I just use Notepadd++
17:13<nekomaster>Yay my code didn't explode
17:14<nekomaster>And it sort of works :P
17:14<nekomaster>Just have to switch the default sprites around :P
17:16<nekomaster>There, now my MP54 and future EMU trains will have a pantograph car for the powered MU Cars
17:18<nekomaster>I suppose if I want different graphics for the Front and Rear head engines of a MU train, I would just do the same thing for the default graphics and what nto for the head engine
17:19<nekomaster>I dont like the look of a Passenger MU refit to Mail and still looks like its refit for passenger
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17:27<+glx>you could try :)
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17:32<nekomaster>Ok so I'm trying to get the code for changing the head engine graphics based on cargo selection
17:32<nekomaster>I think I have it mostly set up I just dont know how to get it to default to the Passenger graphics and then change to a Mail Engine for other cargos
17:33<nekomaster>Either that or I have garbage
17:33<nekomaster>(ALso I'm using the passenger engine graphics for now until I'm sure I can do this all, which then I'll refer the code to the proper position for the mail engine graphics)
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>you already have a cargo switch, what's the problem?
17:35<nekomaster>nmlc ERROR: "src/EMU/EMU_PRR_MP54.pnml", line 120: Unrecognized identifier 'switch_EMU_PRR_MP54_pass_front' encountered
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17:37<nekomaster>Basically i dunno how to get the Head Engine graphics to actually use the cargo selection switches I made
17:38<nekomaster>for the Head engines
17:38<nekomaster>the MU wagons are fine now
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20:32<nekomaster>So I figured out how to make the heads of a dual headed locomotive change graphics :)
20:34<nekomaster>thankfully I made the code clean enough for me to reuse for other MU trains :)
20:38<nekomaster>Though I still dont quite understand what I did
20:38<nekomaster>I might as well be a monkey banging on a computer and getting it to work thoough chance
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21:28<nekomaster>OK So now I have a new graphical issue
21:28<nekomaster>I dont want the cars to be randomised
21:28<nekomaster>Unpowered cars should remain as unpowered sprites with no pantograph
21:28<nekomaster>Only Powered cars should have Pantographs
21:28<nekomaster>But When building Unpowered cars it randomises between powered and unpowered cars
21:29<nekomaster>(or at least the sprites, they do provide any power)
21:30<nekomaster>For Example : Head - NoPantograph - No Pantograph - Pantograph - Pantograph - NoPantograph - Head
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 05 00:00:58 2017