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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-07-25

---Logopened Tue Jul 25 00:00:25 2017
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04:20<__ln__>hello italy, the country surrounded by vatican and san marino
04:22<Wolf01>Don't spread false informations :P
04:23<__ln__>entirely non-false all of it
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08:27<__ln__>end of discussion
08:29<__ln__>is there some neural network based advanced irc bot that could be fed with all the lines spoken by T*** and Bjarni? so we could resurrect them on the channel.
08:29<__ln__>maybe two separate bots though, because the hybrid of those two gentlemen would be maybe too extreme.
08:30<Wolf01>I used megahal
08:31<__ln__>isn't that pretty old and outputs nonsense?
08:32<Wolf01>Some gibberish because of the recursive sentence composition, but it was funny
08:34<__ln__>the minimum for funny has increased over the years
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12:22*andythenorth_ puzzling trains still :p
12:23<andythenorth_>Current challenge: I don't like that engines get longer then shorter
12:23<andythenorth_>According to realism
12:26<@Alberth>better than the other way around, at least
12:26<andythenorth_>One option would be to OP the steam engines and nerf the diesels/electrics
12:27<@Alberth>add some cargo-part to the shorter engine?
12:27<@Alberth>nuts does that afaik
12:28<@Alberth>could be useful for supplies ;)
12:28<andythenorth_>I could multiple-unit the diesels/electrics
12:28<andythenorth_>E.g the chinook
12:28<@Alberth>ah, good train, that
12:28<andythenorth_>it's even realism until 1980 or so
12:29<@Alberth>for realists, stop playing at 1980 :)
12:29<andythenorth_>I am going to increase the unrealism
12:30<@Alberth>sounds good to me :)
12:30*andythenorth_ is handicapped by knowing too much about rl trains
12:30<andythenorth_>V does not have that problem :p
12:30<@Alberth>it takes time to unlearn all the wrong things you know :)
12:32<@Alberth>I am not bothered by engines getting shorter tbh
12:32<@Alberth>At some point I need to make a new train for the next gen wagons anyway
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12:53<andythenorth_>Hi wolf
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27891 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2017-07-25 19:45:37 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish: 29 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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13:50<andythenorth_>So engines:
13:51<andythenorth_>- fast pax (high hp, low TE)
13:51<andythenorth_>- small fast pax (same but small, for branchlines)
13:52<andythenorth_>- large freight (low speed, high TE)
13:52<andythenorth_>- medium freight (same but smaller)
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13:53<andythenorth_>- railcars 8/8 single unit refittable to pax/express
13:53<andythenorth_>railcars fail in current IH it's usually more profitable to use an engine & coaches
13:53<andythenorth_>dunno why
13:56<@Alberth>railcars are the combined passenger/mail wagons?
13:57<andythenorth_>nah, they are the small diesel trains
13:57<andythenorth_>Slammer etc
14:04<andythenorth_>Should train progression provide more capacity per unit length? Or constant?
14:05<andythenorth_>Because we don't have consist management, both options suck :)
14:07<@Alberth>simplest is probably only needing to do engine replacement
14:07<@Alberth>which would suggest we keep the same wagons (forever)
14:08<andythenorth_>I'm not sure what the best schema is
14:08<andythenorth_>Road Hog increases speed, power and capacity per generation, but lengths are constant
14:09<@Alberth>making jumps in wagons would be another option, ie a new wagon with more capacity for a new engine
14:09<andythenorth_>it's relatively trivial to scrap some RVs if a route is over-provided after a vehicle upgrade
14:09<@Alberth>pushing the user to make a full replacement
14:10<andythenorth_>Yes, my intent is matching wagon and engine upgrades
14:10<andythenorth_>At least for 3 out of 4 generations
14:11<andythenorth_>I guess if capacity is suddenly too high, scrap a few trains?
14:11<andythenorth_>But then deliveries are much less frequent
14:11<andythenorth_>300t train > 400t after upgrade
14:11<@Alberth>I think it hardly matters, as long as you're not running in the red
14:12<andythenorth_>RVs, a 25% capacity upgrade has much less impact
14:13<@Alberth>basically, the mass-replacements of default track types have that problem, and afaik, people just mostly copy/paste the entire setup and train fleet to the new track-type
14:13<@Alberth>they don't bother fine-tuning, I think
14:14<@Alberth>for default industries it's not so bad though, as industries will grow and fill the gap
14:14<andythenorth_>Arguably the best upgrade for player is higher capacity and _shorter_ :p
14:14<andythenorth_>better track utilisation
14:14<@Alberth>sounds fair
14:14<andythenorth_>FIRS doesn't grow industries in same way as default eh :p
14:15<@Alberth>faster may actually need more track than slow
14:15<@Alberth>even though fast is much more interesting to play with :p
14:15<@Alberth>it's the case on RL high-ways afaik
14:15<andythenorth_>Stopping distance
14:16<@Alberth>yep, likely
14:16<andythenorth_>What's the 'remove wagons' thing on auto-replace?
14:16<andythenorth_>It's quite magic
14:16<andythenorth_>Anyone know what it does?
14:16<@Alberth>it is indeed
14:17<andythenorth_>It seems to understand brake vans:p
14:17<@Alberth>iirc it removes wagons to compensate for the longer engine
14:18<andythenorth_>It always seems to have a good result
14:18<@Alberth>and I am not surprised if it would understand cabeese things :)
14:18*andythenorth_ wonders about a 'maintain capacity' option
14:19<andythenorth_>bbl, losing signal :(
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14:19<@Alberth>much of the auto-replace code should be changed into something that works better, in some way, I think
14:20<@Alberth>it feels as too much ad-hoc additions
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14:28<frosch123>you mean template-based autoreplace? :)
14:28<@Alberth>seems like a nicer solution, doesn't it?
14:29<@Alberth>but so far, I have sufficient problems with FioOpenFile :p
14:29<frosch123>yep, same for construction
14:29<frosch123>build train from template, instead of copy, delete orders, add new orders
14:29<@Alberth>I do like the original low-level complexity though
14:30<@Alberth>much simpler to get into the game, without the need to make templates etc first
14:30<frosch123>well, when FioOpenFile is done, maybe we can finally add some cache for tar, newgrf and scenario scanning :)
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think autoreplace actually knows about brake vans, but it takes away the wagons not from the end, but from the beginning, i think
14:31<@Alberth>many tycoon-ish games connect orders etc also to consist, so you have to setup a lot of stuff to get one train running
14:32<@Alberth>that's how myths are born :)
14:34<Wolf01><frosch123> you mean template-based autoreplace? :) <- transport fever has it and I don't like it the way is implemented, maybe we could do it a lot better
14:36<Wolf01>Also, I thought it was like... dead. Instead they are about to throw out this good patch
14:38<frosch123>Wolf01: there is a maintained patch on forums
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14:40<Wolf01>Andy then... then what?
14:41<andythen_>Flakey connections
14:41<andythen_>On a phone :p
14:41<frosch123>did you try turning wifi off :p
14:43<andythen_>Rather too accurate :p
14:43<andythen_>But wifi is free, 4g costs £
14:44<andythen_>If wagons were 2x 4/8, then 8/8, that might nearly work
14:45<andythen_>I have to abandon realism though eh
14:46<andythen_>Very common uk/european freight wagons have 2 axles and should be 6/8 long
14:49<andythen_>realism must die eh :(
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15:11<andythen_>6/8 kind of looks good though :|
15:11<andythen_>It's totally illogical
15:11<andythen_>Logic > aesthetics?
15:12<andythen_>Or aesthetics > logic?
15:12<frosch123>well, fake the length of the last wagon to be either 4/8 or 8/8
15:12<frosch123>so that trains always fit whole tiles
15:12<andythen_>Considered that, but sometimes it has to be 2/8 no?
15:13<frosch123>no, then the previous would be 8/8
15:13<andythen_>Magic wagons might solve it
15:14<frosch123>or use dual-headed engines
15:14<frosch123>with variable length cabage
15:14<frosch123>actually, i think we would have to patch that first :p
15:14<frosch123>for some reason dual-headed engines are neglected
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15:23<andythen_>I dropped dual headed due to crazy 3-part vehicles for 10/8 length
15:23<andythen_>Not sure that's needed :p
15:23<andythen_>Can dual-headed be abused for auto-caboose? :p
15:24<Wolf01>That was my proposal too
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15:36<andythenorth_>How often do 6/8 vehicles hit integer or half-integer lengths?
15:36<andythenorth_>18/8 is 2.25?
15:37<frosch123>andythenorth_: V uses dual-headed for auto-caboose
15:37<andythenorth_>The rear sprites can be separate?
15:38<andythenorth_>Presumably 'caboose' = slug tail?
15:38<frosch123>nah, there is some weird push-train
15:38<frosch123>flat wagon as head, real engine at back
15:39<frosch123>probably there is some joke
15:39<frosch123>but i did not get it :p
15:39<frosch123>6/8 vehicles can match a tile, be 2/8 short of a tile or 2/8 longer than a tile
15:40<frosch123>there are only three options
15:40<andythenorth_>12/8 is 1.5 o_O
15:41<frosch123>hint: any 16-multiple of a wagon will always fit a whole tile :p
15:41<frosch123>for the rest you need the greates-common-divider of train length and 16
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>greater fun if length is a prime number ;)
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>uhm... i have a train deadlock in cities skylines
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15:54<andythenorth_>ach so 12/8 is 0.75 :p
15:54<andythenorth_>silly andythenorth
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 26 00:00:27 2017