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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-07-28

---Logopened Fri Jul 28 00:00:30 2017
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03:05<Ox7C5>Hi, I recently downloaded Openttd to run on a Linux server. I downloaded the 1.7.1 archive but when I run it, the server says it's 1.6.1, any ideas on what could be wrong?
03:15<@Alberth>are you sure you have the same executable?
03:15<@Alberth>type which openttd
03:16<Eddi|zuHause>are you sure you're running what you downloaded?
03:16<@Alberth>(if you start it by typing openttd )
03:16<Eddi|zuHause>you might have installed an older version from a system repo
03:18<Ox7C5>I basicly had 2 fresh systems, 1 Win and 1 Linux. I went to download the latest files from and extracted from there. No older versions to confuse me. The readme on Linux also says 1.7.1
03:20<@Alberth>how do you start the program?
03:21<Ox7C5>Additionally, if I start the game as though I would play it on the Linux box, it starts a 1.7.1 window, but as soon as I start it with -D, it starts a 1.6.1
03:22<Ox7C5>Usually just cd into the folder and write openttd
03:22<@Alberth>what does "which openttd" say ?
03:23<Ox7C5>It just outputs /usr/games/openttd
03:23<@Alberth>what does "pwd" say ?
03:24<Ox7C5> /home/username/Downloads/openttd
03:24<@Alberth>is /usr/games/openttd and /home/username/Downloads/openttd/openttd the same executable?
03:24<@Alberth>I am guessing not
03:25<@Alberth>try writing "./openttd"
03:25<@Alberth>ie "run the openttd program in this directory"
03:26<@Alberth>otherwise it uses the PATH variable for finding a program, which typically does NOT include the current directory "."
03:26<Ox7C5>Huh, so that seems to have fixed the issue. It now loaded a 1.7.1 server
03:26<@Alberth>unlike eg windows
03:26<Ox7C5>So I've messed up somewhere
03:26<@Alberth>being in a directory has no meaning in starting a binary
03:27<@Alberth>it's a safety measure
03:27<@Alberth>you have a 1.6.1 install in /usr/games, most likely from your package manager
03:28<Ox7C5>That might be it. Thanks for the help, I should be able to fix it now
03:28<@Alberth>ok, have fun! :)
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03:42<Ox7C5>Yep, everything is now working as intended and I am having fun :D
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05:48<@peter1138>fun? that sounds wrong
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05:49<__ln__>we don't tolerate fun around here
06:06<Alkel_U3>fun comes from Dwarf Fortress
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07:26<Wolf01>Isn't it?
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08:10<andythenorth_>I think it is
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09:01<crem>In youtube videos explaining something, people usually record voiceover, and then draw all animation, etc. Right?
09:14<Flygon>I believe so.
09:14<Flygon>They record first, commentate, then edit.
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10:50<andythenorth_>4/8 is really very short for engines
10:51<supermop>time to give up
10:55<andythenorth_>Time to do maths
10:56<crem>As far as I remember the math, 4/8 can be reduced to 2/4.
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10:58<andythenorth_>@calc 3/16
10:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth_: 0.1875
10:58<andythenorth_>Probably 0.2 in game
10:58<andythenorth_>@calc 6/16
10:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth_: 0.375
10:59<andythenorth_>@calc 12/16
10:59<@DorpsGek>andythenorth_: 0.75
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11:06<supermop>set length based on random callback
11:06<supermop>hmm what happened at home i wonder
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11:07<supermop>andy would know all those calcs if he were an architect who had to work in feet & inches in CAD
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11:16<andythenorth_>Unless I do pure 8/8, integer length trains are a problem :p
11:17<andythenorth_>that's crap
11:18<supermop>trains need a little extra platform length, otherwise your drivers union is going to complain about having to always brake to stop with no leeway
11:19<andythenorth_>It's very untidy
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11:23<andythenorth_>How do I make integer length from 5/8 or 6/8?
11:23<andythenorth_>5/8 must be the worst choice
11:24<andythenorth_>@calc 8*6
11:24<@DorpsGek>andythenorth_: 48
11:24<andythenorth_>@calc 48/16
11:24<@DorpsGek>andythenorth_: 3
11:25<andythenorth_>1 engine, 7 wagons
11:25<andythenorth_>Kind of works
11:25<andythenorth_>Also TL 6 hits an integer
11:27<@Alberth>5/8 -> 40/8, ie 5 tiles
11:27<andythenorth_>tile is 16/8
11:27<andythenorth_>I keep making that mistake
11:28<@Alberth>80/8 then
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11:29<@Alberth>still 5 tiles :p
11:29<andythenorth_>6/8 + (5 * 4/8) + 6/8
11:29<andythenorth_>2 tiles
11:29<andythenorth_>6/8 engine, 6/8 caboose
11:30<andythenorth_>4/8 wagons
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11:33<andythenorth_>I need to draw some stuff I guess, as tests
11:33<andythenorth_>RH has lots of 4/8 tram engines & wagons
11:33<andythenorth_>But trams look small
11:34<andythenorth_>afk currently, no pixels :p
11:40<supermop>i haven't touched tram pixels in like 3 weeks
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11:56<andythenorth_> Hmm 4/8 works for super chibi engines :p
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12:44<andythenorth_>Also 4/8
12:45<andythenorth_>Or even shorter, alliwing that chibi compresses length
12:46<andythenorth_>There's a 4/8 train in original ttd
12:48<Alkel_U3>the arctic one? It still occupies 8/8 length, much to my dismay when I tried to couple them together, I think
12:49<Alkel_U3>that was back when I just discovered ttdpatch and learned how to use the electric locos in the arcticset
12:49<Alkel_U3>good times
12:51<Alkel_U3>yeah, just checked, the length is the same in openttd (which makes sense)
12:51<andythenorth_>It's 8/8?
12:51<andythenorth_>Gap at the front?
12:52<Alkel_U3>yeah, when you put two of them together it looks like it's being towed on a long rope
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12:56<andythenorth_>Lame :D
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13:03<andythenorth_>What is the point of small trains?
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13:04<andythenorth_>genuine question, need to make desigb choices
13:05<Alkel_U3>well, they look good early on and on low-duty feeders
13:06<Alkel_U3>appart from that, it's usually not really that inconvenient to just build an extra tile on the platform
13:08<andythenorth_>they only make sense to me if they're unrealistically fast
13:08<andythenorth_>Otherwise use bus or tram
13:09<andythenorth_>I always build some in my games... but only because I like using the vehicles
13:09<Alkel_U3>I use a lot of trucks and cargo trams in my games but sometimes it's just... nicer to build :-)
13:10<Alkel_U3>but I can't count many instances where it actually was the more profitable thing to do
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13:20<andythenorth_>what length should a viable small train be? 1 tile? 2?
13:20<andythenorth_>for example, pax & mail
13:21<frosch123>stations shorter than 3 tiles look weird
13:22<andythenorth_>at 1 tile, use a bus, tram
13:22<andythenorth_>Or metro or NG
13:22<frosch123>short trains have a higher frequency
13:23<andythenorth_>If I make the shortest engines 8/8 things get interesting
13:23<frosch123>which makes them better suitable for low cargo amounts
13:23<andythenorth_>means no small switcher/shunter engines
13:23<frosch123>were those ever more than eyecandy?
13:24<andythenorth_>in theory they're viable in IH
13:24<andythenorth_>but they could be 8/8 without it looking bad
13:25<andythenorth_>I can do a bigger engine chibi, which will still look nice
13:25<frosch123>i remember the first time playing with ukrs
13:25<frosch123>it were all steam engines, and then the first diesel appeared called "shunter"
13:26<andythenorth_>it's not much of an upgrade :)
13:26<frosch123>i did not know the word, and started autoreplace
13:26<frosch123>only to discover that vehciles were suddenly stuck at 15 km/h
13:26<andythenorth_>surprised pikka didn't call it Gronk
13:27<frosch123>i don't know about their purpose to date :)
13:27<andythenorth_>In game, zero purpose :)
13:28<supermop>i've used them as a pig in a yard
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13:28<andythenorth_>if I make all engines 8/8 for 'normal' there's a better contrast with narrow gauge
13:29<andythenorth_>Well 8/8 or 12/8
13:29<supermop>even as pigs, they aren't that practical
13:30<supermop>IH little bear makes a decent pig. IH NG ends up being too long
13:31<supermop>though i use little bear for 3 and 4 TL trains all the time
13:31<andythenorth_>that's what it's for :)
13:31<andythenorth_>Glad it works
13:32<andythenorth_>IH originates 50% in my attempt to get pikka to add something like little bear to ukrs 2
13:32<andythenorth_>His response was pineapple and even fewer trains :)
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13:36<supermop>little bear is useful for like 90% of the trains i run for 90% of the timeframe i play
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13:44<supermop>i wish i had the room to build an N-scale tramway
13:44<supermop>i assume model trams just have regular train flanged wheels
13:45<supermop>so idk if they would really work with grooved track and tram points
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27892 trunk/src/lang/finnish.txt (2017-07-28 19:45:36 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>finnish: 41 changes by USephiroth
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13:54<andythenorth_>Such many train lengths :p
14:01<andythenorth_>If I scaled a standard uk coach at 8/8
14:01<andythenorth_>Many wagons would be 3/8 at realistic scale
14:01<andythenorth_>Super tiny
14:09<Alkel_U3>but the autoreplace hell...
14:10<Alkel_U3>it was enough that pineapple has this freight double loco (2*'8/8') and for continued performance needs to be replaced by two newer single engines
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14:40<supermop>3/8 looks more british
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14:45<Alkel_U3>has there ever been a game which implements loading gauges?
14:46<Alkel_U3>well, builders, not simulators
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14:53<supermop>probably no
14:55<supermop>you'd need some means of having a choice as to how far apart tracks are etc, and give player the ability to build rail that trains cannot actually traverse
14:55<supermop>probably no commercial market for it
14:56<supermop>would be interesting, but it really just becomes a civil engineering game at that point, and from the civil engineers in my family i can assume that the last thing they want to do after modelling complext infrastructure all day, is to model complex infrastructure for fun
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16:12<supermop>must draw tram bit
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16:14<V453000>bitss must be drawn
16:16<supermop>I guess i'll chop up ogfx trams and use those
16:17<V453000>can it get worse? :D
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16:18<V453000>people voluntarily reusing ogfx for grfs ._.
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16:18<supermop>this grf started out as an attempt to improve ogfx+rvs
16:20<V453000>lost cause? :P
16:23<V453000>in today
16:23<V453000>in today's news: brix is still being a fucking pain
16:23<V453000>still looks shit
16:23<V453000>we will observe this delicate topic further
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16:31<Eddi|zuHause>maybe improve brix by incorporating opengfx then? :p
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16:32<andythenorth_>4/8, 8/8, 12/8
16:33<andythenorth_>Except sometimes 6/8
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>except it's /16
16:33<V453000>yeah that wouldn't help much Eddi ;)
16:33<andythenorth_>And don't use those vehicles if you're obsessed by integer lengths :p
16:33<V453000>666/32 Andy
16:33<andythenorth_>And what eddi said
16:34*andythenorth_ puzzled by numeratora and denominators :p
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>fun fact, the number 666 (in the current meaning) is much older than the notation in "arabic" numerals
16:35<andythenorth_>How many 1/16 is 8/8??
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>a full tile is a length of 16 steps
16:35<andythenorth_>Apoarently the pricing of the Apple 1 at 666.66 was nothing to do with number of the beast
16:36<andythenorth_>It's a woz thiing for repeating digira
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>in german we call this "Schnapszahl"
16:36<andythenorth_>33% markup on $500
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>(typically 3 of the same digit)
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's basically an old drinking game :p
16:37<andythenorth_>Seems very ttd ish
16:37<andythenorth_>dunko why
16:38<andythenorth_>Balancing often hangs on specific ratios eh
16:38<V453000>I shit pants
16:38<V453000>also andy wins, no wooden shit
16:38<andythenorth_>Also 666 was apparently hebrew code for 'nero' and nothing to do with actual satan
16:40<andythenorth_>V I knew if I left you to it, you'd argue yourself out of it
16:40<andythenorth_>Wood alone isn't pleasing in game
16:40<andythenorth_>Would be uncanny valley
16:40<andythenorth_>I'd work backwards from the trains you showed
16:41<andythenorth_>They are best train sprites ever
16:41<V453000>that makes too much sense
16:41<V453000>but yeah I might
16:41<V453000>now I am rushing towards 0.0.2 of BRIX
16:41<andythenorth_>Swe could literally make an ios/android casual train game with them for $$$€€€¥¥££
16:41<V453000>just applying photoshop postproduction I did before and adding noise
16:41<andythenorth_>And profit
16:42<V453000>doing them trains could be nice
16:42<andythenorth_>Trains are winning
16:42<andythenorth_>Call it 'train collector' :p
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth_: well, but probably not actual nero, but a mythically exaggerated version of nero as the impersonation of all evil that happened to early christianity
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>like every supposedly "evil" person now is "hitler"
16:45*andythenorth_ currently playing a lot of this
16:45<V453000>just random noise but it makes a huge difference
16:45<V453000>want to publish this before I dive into doing it properly, if ever I do that even
16:45<andythenorth_>V such lick
16:45<V453000>most of the trees will change they are too inconsistent but eh, eventually
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>grass is a tiny bit too noisy i think
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16:54<andythenorth_>v anything but ogfx :p
16:55<andythenorth_>ogfx is an achievement, I couldn't have replaced the whole baseset
16:55<V453000>honestly the more time I spend on BRIX the more I don't understand how could zephyris have made zbase in 300hrs
16:55<andythenorth_>But it's not even close to TTD sprites
16:56<V453000>ogfx I can imagine drawing it all
16:56<andythenorth_>and most new players never realise what the original was, or how perfect
16:56<V453000>but yeah when I realise what flaws it has, ... :)
16:57<V453000>the world is going to shit undoubtedly
16:57<V453000>this is one of the major signs
17:09<supermop>if I can just bring myself to draw 6 'faces' of trams i'll be set
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17:35<Eddi|zuHause>"faces" as in directions of view, or as in thomas the tank engine?
17:40<V453000>probably polygons :P
17:40<V453000>I'm hoping for the other
17:44<supermop>if it was 3d id have already done it
17:45<supermop>faces as in the plastic/fiberglass cab end
17:45<supermop>I can just iterate a generic window segment for the bodies
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 29 00:00:31 2017