Back to Home / #openttd / 2017 / 08 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-08-13

---Logopened Sun Aug 13 00:00:11 2017
00:02-!-DorpsGek [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:07-!-Jay[m] [~jgkamatma@2001:470:1af1:101::653] has joined #openttd
00:07-!-Jay[m] is "" on #openttd
00:08<Thanark_>How do I remove a forest?
00:12-!-Jay[m] is now known as jgkamat
00:15<Thanark_>Also, website down?
01:10<Shoshonite> says it is down now. I cant reach it
01:20<Thanark_>Any reason to have more than one train depot at a coal mine? Only seems to have enough to keep up with one train worth of coal anyways.
01:44-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
01:46-!-orudge` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:46-!-orudge` [] has joined #openttd
01:46-!-orudge` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
01:46-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
01:47-!-debdog [] has joined #openttd
01:47-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
01:47<Flygon>Thanark: Autoreplace.
02:05-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
02:05-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
02:05-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
02:06-!-orudge` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:06-!-orudge` [] has joined #openttd
02:06-!-orudge` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
02:06-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
02:09-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
02:09-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
02:18<@Alberth>a sunny sunday, today
02:21<andythenorth>same here
02:28-!-Hiddenfunstuff [] has joined #openttd
02:28-!-Hiddenfunstuff is "Geth" on #openttd #/r/openttd #openttdcoop
02:30*andythenorth wonders why trains won’t flip in depot with ctrl-click
02:30<@Alberth>I never understood this flipping thing
02:31<@Alberth>apparently, it's relevant how the trains drives?
02:33<@Alberth>I wondered if you could make a networking game script
02:33<andythenorth>flipping is just eye-candy :)
02:33<andythenorth>if it wasn’t possible I wouldn’t bother :)
02:33<@Alberth>where you get assignments to bring more cargo to a few places, so you get the problem of expanding network capacity and platforms
02:33<andythenorth>networking game script?
02:34<andythenorth>total connected nodes or such?
02:34<andythenorth>connected destinations?
02:34-!-sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
02:34-!-sla_ro|master is "slamaster" on @#sla #openttd #love
02:34<@Alberth>I really like the problems of making a fluently running network
02:35<andythenorth>it’s the main core of the game
02:36<@peter1138>point to point links!
02:37<@Alberth>script switches infrastructure maintenance on
02:37<andythenorth>peter1138: so the best way
02:38*andythenorth used to do 6 track point-point in original TTD
02:38<@Alberth>although apparently it's a complicated concept, baldy's boss doesn't seem to understand it
02:38<andythenorth>no comment
02:38<@Alberth>6 track?
02:38<andythenorth>6 station platforms at ore mine -> 6 station platforms at steel mill
02:38<andythenorth>no crossings, no signals, no junctions
02:38<andythenorth>6 was the maximum iirc
02:39<@Alberth>max station size
02:39<andythenorth>for some reason I used to build all 6 at once
02:39<andythenorth>instead of getting one started then adding more
02:39<andythenorth>then the iron mine would close before I got finished :P
02:39<@Alberth>it's simpler :)
02:39<@Alberth>haha :)
02:40<andythenorth>anyway, point-to-point ftw
02:40<andythenorth>but usually I do this :P,%2001-05-2007.png
02:40<@Alberth>add a "tease player" mode :p
02:41<@Alberth>that takes a while to decode :)
02:41<@Alberth>organically built tracks are the best though
02:41<andythenorth>I need HAUL road mixed in
02:42<andythenorth>just for extra tile contention
02:42<@Alberth>hmm, would be nice if we could enforce that playing style in the script
02:42<@Alberth>I don't use RVs enough
02:42<@Alberth>although one game at 64x64 with firs extreme...
02:42<andythenorth>nah we don’t need to enforce a playing style :)
02:43<andythenorth>just….encourage it
02:43<@Alberth>not enough space for trains
02:43<andythenorth>so how do we reward connecting nodes?
02:43<andythenorth>Busy Bee, but generate goals that add edges to already-connected nodes?
02:44<@Alberth>score on using less rail tiles
02:44<@Alberth>or road tiles
02:44<andythenorth>it’s a common thing in Railroad Tycoon goals to have limited track tile counts
02:44<andythenorth>either total amount, or amount available to build per year
02:44<@Alberth>haha, you place one, the script removes it again :p
02:45<@Alberth>just counting number of rail tiles and road tiles would be enough, I think
02:45<@Alberth>with a rough computation of minimum required or so
02:47<@Alberth>you can indeed extend BB to take already present tracks into account
02:48<@Alberth>assume player will use it, so don't count that distance (or count it less)
02:49<@Alberth>but BB generates targets all over the place, so you never get that concentration needed for problems in expanding stations
02:49<@Alberth>laying more track is quite easy, although with a less score if you take number of rail tiles into account
02:50<@Alberth>oh, we should also count station tiles!
02:50<@Alberth>pushing for the optimal use of resources
02:51-!-dark_pingus [] has joined #openttd
02:51-!-dark_pingus is "dark pingus" on #openttd
02:56-!-adf88 [] has joined #openttd
02:56-!-adf88 is "adf88" on #openttd
02:59<@Alberth>maybe just punishing station tiles is enough?
02:59<@Alberth>that already breaks your point-to-point connections
03:00<andythenorth>might work
03:01<andythenorth>Station Limits
03:01<andythenorth>there’s probably a pun somewhere :P
03:06*andythenorth fixed Iron Horse ctrl-click flipping
03:06<andythenorth>but…most sprites are symmetrical :D
03:06<@Alberth> more eye-candy :)
03:07<@Alberth>it's a feature, doesn't need to be a useful feature :p
03:09-!-sla_ro|master [] has quit []
03:11<adf88>doesn't "feature" mean "useful" ? :p
03:12-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
03:12-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 is "purple" on #openttd
03:13<@peter1138>crashing when trying to take a screenshot is a feature
03:14<adf88>that's a "hidden feature" :)
03:18<Eddi|zuHause>a feature is a feature is a feature
03:19-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:20<adf88>english is not very well in recursions, maybe try another language :p
03:33*andythenorth finds more FS to close
03:33<andythenorth>spam spam spam spam
03:33<andythenorth>oh I broke it
03:43<andythenorth>at least there’ll be no more FS spam
03:43<@peter1138>wiki and www was already broken
03:43*andythenorth wonders what would be lost if FS just….died
03:43<@peter1138>probably from all that FS spam yesterday
03:44-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
03:44-!-Wolf01 is "Wolf01" on #openttd
03:46<andythenorth>we could probably just use github for pissing people off by saying ‘no’ to tickets
03:46<andythenorth>or accepting crash logs that nobody looks at :)
03:46<andythenorth>no need to run our own service for that
03:47<andythenorth>wow, there’s a huge JJ fork
03:47<andythenorth>what does that do then? o_O
03:47<@peter1138>too much
03:47<@peter1138>i was looking over it to steal bits
03:47<@peter1138>but there's massive changes early on
03:48<andythenorth>“ A special one-tile dock can be built on a flat water tile"
03:48<@peter1138>i need to figure out how to set up a dev environment under windows again
03:48<@peter1138>i suspect it'll probably involve "set up a debian vm"
03:49<andythenorth>or something :P
03:49<andythenorth>I should clone his repo
03:49<@peter1138>i probably did
03:49<@peter1138>there are some others
03:50*andythenorth does
03:51<andythenorth>too many openttd’s running :P
03:51<andythenorth>such patches and forks
03:51<andythenorth>also too many apostrophes
03:51<Thanark_>What do I do about a crashed train?
03:52*andythenorth waits for a compile
03:52*andythenorth needs faster computer
03:55<Thanark_>Now that I crashed 4 of my trains I wish I remembered what jobs they were on
03:55<@peter1138>you can still see that while they are crashed
03:56<andythenorth>ach, jj-last won’t build for me :|
03:56<@Alberth>just click the crashed trains, or even clone them
03:57<@peter1138>i never tested building it
03:57<andythenorth>_probably_ OS X crap
03:57<Thanark_>Ah wish I knew that before they disspeared. :|
03:57*andythenorth checking
03:57<Thanark_>Good to know for next time
03:57<andythenorth>Thanark_: reload an autosave
03:57<andythenorth>oh yeah, wiki is gone
03:58<andythenorth>so OS X compile instructions are gone :)
03:58<@peter1138>if you're reloading autosaves, then reload before the crash ;p
04:00<Wolf01><andythenorth> oh yeah, wiki is gone <- entire is gone
04:01<Wolf01>Need to wake up that T***B**** guy?
04:01<Thanark_>Wished saved games saved the windows I had pinned.
04:02<andythenorth>errors are a lot of this
04:04<andythenorth>the master branch builds in that fork, it looks like clean openttd master
04:04<andythenorth>the jj-last branch is the one that fails
04:04<andythenorth>JJ-last *
04:08<LordAro>Wolf01: i'd suggest actually waking TrueBrain up might be more productive :p
04:09<LordAro>nothing responding on port 80, load balancer's probably fallen over
04:09<LordAro>at a guess
04:11<Wolf01>Put it on the table again, maybe some andy's cat tripped on it
04:11<LordAro>also, lol, is completely broken for me - it's got the revoked startcom cert which chrome refuses to let me through, and paste.oc.o redirects to https
04:12-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
04:12-!-Progman is "Peter Henschel" on #openttdcoop #openttd
04:13-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
04:16<Wolf01>Shit, what am I downloading... the entire github?
04:17<Flygon>If you want to speedtest your net connection thoroughly?...
04:17<Flygon>It's either that or a popular Game of Thrones torrent. Not that I endorse piracy. I don't. :V
04:17<Flygon>But, just sayin', it's a good way to test a gigabit connection. :VVVV
04:18<Wolf01>Usually we download a linux iso to test the bandwidth
04:19<Wolf01>The problem is that netflix thing which uses up my bandwidth actually :P
04:19-!-gpsoft [] has joined #openttd
04:19-!-gpsoft is "realname" on #openttd
04:23-!-sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
04:23-!-sla_ro|master is "slamaster" on @#sla #openttd #love
04:23-!-debdog [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
04:25-!-sla_ro|master [] has quit []
04:28-!-sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
04:28-!-sla_ro|master is "slamaster" on @#sla #openttd #love
04:28-!-debdog [] has joined #openttd
04:28-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
04:28-!-Gja [] has joined #openttd
04:28-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
04:29-!-Gja [] has quit []
04:31<andythenorth>articulated vehicles with different cargos per unit, slightly auto-refittable :P
04:31<andythenorth>it worked before
04:31*andythenorth had better read the old code :P
04:32<TrueBrain>well, this is odd .. everything is operational, but the internal network is no longer responding .. that is a new one ..
04:33<Shoshonite>When compiling a newGRF it keeps telling me "8bpp images does not have a palette" suggestions.
04:34<Eddi|zuHause>when saving the image, make sure you checked "keep unused colours"
04:35<Shoshonite>I wouldnt have wasted the good wine on it if I had know it didnt have a palette.
04:35<Shoshonite>ok tkx
04:35<TrueBrain>lets reboot this whole machine ... wtf really ...
04:36<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: being sysadmin sounds like "fun" :p
04:37<TrueBrain>especially as that fixed the issue
04:37<TrueBrain>everything was as it should
04:37<TrueBrain>interface was reporting the IPs
04:37<TrueBrain>routes were in place
04:37-!-DorpsGek [] has joined #openttd
04:37-!-mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
04:37-!-DorpsGek is "DorpsGek" on @#openttd
04:37<TrueBrain>but .. it did not find the interface to route packets on
04:38<TrueBrain>I am just really happy the whole infrastructure is fractured .. only the main gateway lost its way :P So an easy reboot
04:38<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you can use the wiki again!!! :P
04:40<andythenorth>awesome :)
04:40<andythenorth>can you leave FS offline? o_O
04:40<andythenorth>might be better
04:41<TrueBrain>I was looking for a forum thread yelling it was offline, but it isnt there! :D
04:41<TrueBrain>that made me look into another thread .. that made me lookup stats about the traffic etc
04:41<andythenorth>do we get traffic?
04:41<TrueBrain>after 2 years of a "poor" summar, we are back on the traffc as it was in 2014
04:42-!-debdog [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
04:42<TrueBrain>we are very steady in the amount of visitors per month
04:42<andythenorth>is that up or down? o_O
04:42<andythenorth>are we dying less or moar?
04:42<TrueBrain>from a statistical perspective, we are neither
04:42<Flygon>Wolf01: I forgot you can Linux ISO.
04:43<TrueBrain>500k unique visitors a month
04:43<andythenorth>unique? :o
04:43<andythenorth>how many are bots?
04:43<TrueBrain>as far as I can look back .. which is 6 years .. that is give or take the number
04:43<andythenorth>500k is, relatively, a shitload
04:43<TrueBrain>(goes up to 800k sometimes, sometimes 300k)
04:43<TrueBrain>we push 1TB of data every week of binaries
04:44<TrueBrain>and that is data we register (so ignoring Linux distros, basically)
04:44<Shoshonite>thats a lot of 0 and 1
04:44<Wolf01>Not bad
04:44<TrueBrain>@calc 1000000 / 24 / 60 / 60
04:44<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 11.5740740741
04:44<TrueBrain>11 requests per second ON AVERAGE over a FULL DAY
04:45<andythenorth>probably dying same then
04:46<TrueBrain>it always strikes me .. as I do agree with your opinion, it feels like OpenTTD is slowly dying ever since .. well .. 2010 or something .. (which is fine in my opinion)
04:46<TrueBrain>but the traffic tells a completely different story
04:46<TrueBrain>so I guess: the verbal people see less activity
04:46<TrueBrain>the users themself enjoy the game every day
04:46<TrueBrain>not more, not less :)
04:46<andythenorth>I look at downloads of newgrfs in bananaramas
04:47<andythenorth>always seems pretty constant
04:47<TrueBrain>if you are interested in HTTP hits
04:47<Wolf01><andythenorth> errors are a lot <- even syntax errors... did he even try to compile before pushing?
04:47<andythenorth>such stats :)
04:47<andythenorth>Wolf01: no idea :)
04:48<TrueBrain>so I wonder how the stats do not match the feeling :D
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: fake news
04:49<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: that's pretty much summing up politics over the last decade or so
04:49<Wolf01>BTW, I have a lot of / not overloaded for Money and uint16
04:49<LordAro>TrueBrain: nice :)
04:49<TrueBrain>@calc 750 / (180 + 750)
04:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 0.806451612903
04:49<TrueBrain>on other relevant news, 80% of our users uses HTTPS
04:50<andythenorth>“it is dying” = “there’s nothing new and shiny"
04:50<andythenorth>two kinds of attitude to it
04:50<Eddi|zuHause>you should disable http, then it's 100% :p
04:50<andythenorth>“it is stable, I am playing"
04:50<andythenorth>“it is not novelty, it is dying"
04:51<TrueBrain>yeah .. I am serious poundering disabling HTTP
04:51<TrueBrain>fr various of reasons
04:51<TrueBrain>6 months ago it was 50% btw
04:51<Eddi|zuHause>do spammers use https yet?
04:51<TrueBrain>but anyway, good morning all, and have a good day :D
04:52<TrueBrain>poke me if anything is still not working on the internet service side :)
04:52*LordAro waves
04:52<Wolf01>o/ :)
04:54<andythenorth>thanks TB
04:54<andythenorth>quite a lot of combinations here
04:54<andythenorth>4/8 mail car, 8/8 mail car (might remove, redundant, just use 2x 4/8)
04:55-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
04:55-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
04:55<andythenorth>8/8 pax coach, 10/8 articulated pax-mail coach
04:55-!-Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
04:55-!-Biolunar is "Biolunar" on #openttd #suckless
04:58<LordAro>peter1138: if you're looking for a patch queue to add... ;)
05:02<Wolf01>I got JJ's last to compile, too bad it crashes loading the title savegame
05:03<LordAro>works for me
05:03-!-adf88 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:03<Wolf01>Are you compiling master?
05:04<Wolf01>It asserts on TileAdd
05:06<LordAro>no issues at all here
05:06<LordAro>how odd
05:07<LordAro>heh, titlescreen looks really bare on 1440p
05:09-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
05:09<Wolf01>It's strange that everybody got a different problem
05:10-!-debdog [] has joined #openttd
05:10-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
05:14-!-Maraxus [] has joined #openttd
05:14-!-Maraxus is "Maraxus" on #openttd #factoriocoop @#openttdcoop.stable @#openttdcoop
05:15<Shoshonite>Do any of the wisened individuals here have any newGRF vehicle sprite alignment tricks they can share?
05:15<Shoshonite>trying to get vehicles to run up a single lane of road in the center of the tile
05:18-!-Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
05:18-!-Flygon_ is "Flygon" on #openttd
05:18<Shoshonite>Hadn't considered that, seems practical
05:21<andythenorth>you can shift the offsets
05:21<andythenorth>I wouldn’t recommend it :P
05:22-!-Maraxus [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 54.0.1/20170628075643]]
05:24<Shoshonite>It will probably make the model jerk around corners too. Blarg
05:25-!-Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:26<_dp_>bot traffic grows so if overall stays the same it means less humans :p
05:26<_dp_>from server activity I'd say there are about 10% less players than last year
05:30<andythenorth>Shoshonite: it will snap horribly in corners ;)
05:30<andythenorth>what are you trying to do? o_O
05:34<Wolf01>What it should be done with vehicle movement instead :P
05:34*andythenorth bbl
05:34-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
05:34<_dp_>oh, it's 16% actually for mar-jul
05:45<Wolf01>Where has been moved the titlescreen?
05:47<Wolf01>Found, baseset
05:54<Wolf01>Ok, I was able to load it with the new titlescreen (it still asserts after some time)... I can't see many differences beside joinable docks
06:04<Wolf01>Oh, bigger depots needed to be enabled in the settings
06:04<Wolf01>They seem nice
06:04-!-Coobies [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:16-!-Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
06:16-!-Wormnest is "Wormnest" on #openttd
06:23-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:27-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
06:27-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
06:38-!-mescalito [] has joined #openttd
06:38-!-mescalito is "realname" on #openttd #openttdcoop
06:43-!-gelignite [] has joined #openttd
06:43-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone
06:44-!-adf88 [] has joined #openttd
06:44-!-adf88 is "adf88" on #openttd
07:01<Wolf01> shit... this IS a depot
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: yeah, but if only he spoke a language anyone could understand :p
07:13<Wolf01>You are lucky :P
07:14-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:24-!-orudge` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:24-!-orudge` [] has joined #openttd
07:24-!-orudge` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
07:24-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
07:27-!-JacobD88 [] has joined #openttd
07:27-!-JacobD88 is "JacobD88" on #openttd.notice #openttd
07:31<Wolf01> yes
07:55<Flygon_>Wolf01: Man...
07:55<Flygon_>I've had OTTD stations turn out like that.
07:55-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
07:55<Flygon>Somehow had really rare edge case where 50-60 tile long freight trains made sense.
08:01-!-adf88 [] has quit [Quit: adf88]
08:03<Wolf01> here it is
08:11-!-gpsoft [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i've seen this one before
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's a weird edge case :p
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>because the green arrow tells you "you can turn right on red light"
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>and you can only turn right anyway
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>the light doesn't need to turn green
08:20<Wolf01>Here we would leave the yellow light blinking
08:21-!-Maraxus [] has joined #openttd
08:21-!-Maraxus is "Maraxus" on #openttd #factoriocoop @#openttdcoop.stable @#openttdcoop
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>but some obscure bureaucratic rule tells that it's necessary to still have a light
08:21<Wolf01>Yeah, just not red :P
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>well, those exit too, traffic lights that eternally blink yellow
08:22<Wolf01>Yellow mean to pay attention when entering the intersection
08:22-!-JacobD88 [] has quit [Quit: JacobD88]
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>but blinking yellow is different, blinking yellow means "treat this light as off [signs apply instead]"
08:25<Wolf01>No, blinking yellow mean to pay attention, they signal a possible danger
08:26-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
08:26-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
08:26-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>blinking yellow means "this traffic light is temporarily out of service"
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>well, there are different types of blinking yellow lights
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>there's also "there is a traffic light ahead and it's red" type of blinking yellow light
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>and "this is a construction site" type of blinking yellow light
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, still, the red light is technically correct. just a bit weird
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>red light with green arrow is technically mostly the same as a stop sign
08:31<Flygon>Eddi|zuHause: I mean, we handle that situation here by not having the light at all (Assuming I have the mental gymnastics in my head) - By only having lights for turning, not going forward. But it's actually really difficult to visualize the intersection in my head. :D
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: you can zoom out?
08:32<Flygon> On the other hand... we enjoy brainfucking people with this beauty. :D
08:32<Flygon>I must learn to read.
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: the main point is, because the rest of the crossing has traffic lights, this entrance to the crossing must also have one
08:32<Flygon>Okay, yeah. That situation is DEFINITELY handled differently here. :D
08:34<Flygon>What a very German bureaucratic problem. :3
08:34<Wolf01>Flygon: isn't that for tram/bus?
08:34<Flygon>Wolf01: Yeah, but most Americans don't pick up on it.
08:36<Flygon>It's really fun screwing with their minds - They don't tend to consider Trams having their own system!
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>you can see our tram signalling on above crossing, too
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>if you look at it from the other directions
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>it uses white bars/dots instead of colours, though, so is easily distinguishable
08:39<@Alberth>discussing future NRT extensions? :)
08:39<Wolf01> we enjoy people with this one
08:39<Wolf01>I bet you can't see what's strange at first glance
08:40<@Alberth>you won
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>you must go straight on the roundabout, obviously.
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>can't turn right, must go a full round
08:41<Wolf01>I fucked up and did that in front of the local police :P
08:42<Wolf01>Because I was following the GPS and it made me do a full round and go from where I came
08:42<Wolf01>I turned back to the other roundabout and turned right there :P
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>i still don't understand the whole craze about roundabouts
08:44<Wolf01>They could have used a better sign, like a forbid sign, instead of indication sign
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>if you have a bit of time and a decent lawyer, you might want to challenge the sign
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>because a sign forbidding a turn like that must have a valid reason to be there
08:47<Wolf01>Yes, the reason was explained by the person I was going to meet, it's a narrow curve and people used to take it at fast speed, some crashes happened
08:48-!-stefino [] has joined #openttd
08:48-!-stefino is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>did the police cite you on this, or just issue a warning?
08:49<Wolf01>No, I think they didn't even see me, or maybe they are used to this behavior
08:49-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
08:49-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
08:49<stefino>hi, can someone explain to me why are offsets different in nml and in the game? thanks
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>stefino: completely blue (transparent) lines may be cut from sprites, and the offsets are automatically adjusted
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>i think you can suppress that with the -c option
08:52<stefino>so I have to cut out transparent parts corectly to get right absolute offsets
08:52-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
08:52-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>stefino: no, you don't have to do that
08:54<Flygon><Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand the whole craze about roundabouts
08:54<Flygon>They're cheap.
08:55<Wolf01>They allow u-turns
08:55<Flygon>Our local Shire Council managed to get a lot of shit for replacing a set of traffic lights with a roundabout around 15 years ago.
08:55<Flygon>The roundabout is now considered one of THE most dangerous intersections inside the town now.
08:55<Flygon>Especially since it tends to rain here.
08:56<Flygon>Peak hour + Lots of impatient drivers + Lots of traffic backed up + Traffic coming in from all directions = Tonnes of wheelslip and the roundabout full of traffic.
08:56<Wolf01>I'm usually against replacing traffic lights with roundabouts, but I would like to have roundabouts in place of plain junctions on main roads, since it's really difficult to turn left usually
08:56<Flygon>It's a miracle we haven't had a multi-car pile up.
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>they replaced a regular crossing with a roundabout here. i usually drive straight across it (they paved the center, to make it easier for trucks to turn)
08:57<Flygon>,144.957503,449m/data=!3m1!1e3 Since we're on the subject of roundabout, btw. :B
08:58<Wolf01>"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." funny google...
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: i see the problem: they built it the wrong way around
08:58<Flygon>Urgh, Google Maps overview is terrible -,-215.042377&z=19&t=h It's easier to see in GOKML.
08:59<Flygon>Eddi: S'more... the Tramlines and amount of traffic going through. :V
08:59<Flygon>They installed Traffic Lights in it. About 5 years ago. It was veritable hell to drive through. Still is. @_@
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: we used to have such a monstrosity
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: then they built the tram one layer deeper
09:00<Flygon>Yeah, I'm not sure we'll ever submerge or viaduct the relevant Tramlines.
09:01<Wolf01>,13.214952,234m/data=!3m1!1e3 They want to make 2 roundabouts here, with an hourglass shape and the railway passing in the middle of one
09:01<Flygon>There's a few - well, quite a few other Tramlines going through roundabouts in the city (Comes with the world's largest Tram network :V), but this's the worst of them.
09:01<Flygon>Wolf01: That solution is EXTREMELY popular here.
09:02<Flygon>,-214.991358&z=18&t=h Since we're exchanging monstrosities of intersections - I reckon Reservoir gets a lot of points for how awful the level crossing is.
09:03<Flygon>Ooh, yeah. Definitely much more room to sink the Tramline in.
09:04<Flygon>(I'm not sure how they plan to 'fix up' the intersection - This segment of the line IS being viaducted)
09:04<stefino>Eddi - ok, so thank you :)
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: they significantly changed the routes of the tram
09:04<Flygon>Oh. O_O
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: where the tram is now, used to be a passenger tunnel. the tram lines from the north and from the south and from the west used to run in the center of the road
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>and meet in the center of the circle
09:07-!-stefino [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>err, s/west/east
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>there used to be a tram line from the west, but that was eliminated much earlier
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: part of the problem was that the trams from the south entered the circle between the two bridges, and thus were hard to see from a car
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>(there were no traffic lights at that time)
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>this was also the highest-traffic intersection in the whole region
09:11<Flygon>I really.
09:11<Flygon>REALLY must ask.
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>so you had like 3 tram accidents per day
09:11<Flygon>Why didn't they have interum traffic lights?
09:12<Flygon>They're definitely NOT the perfect solution - Haymarket Roundabout gets a few prangs still - But they really do help.
09:12<Wolf01>BTW, after NRT I would like to make some changes at vehicle movement
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, automatic tram-activated traffic lights only entered the picture about 20 years ago, and the reconstruction planning started like 15 years ago
09:13<Wolf01>Having 2 lanes roads (4 lanes on the same tile, without pavements maybe) could be nice
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: *cough* statemachines *cough*
09:14<Wolf01>You want to help?
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
09:15<Flygon>We've had Tram activated lights for about as long as we've individually tracked Trams.
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: but you didn't have communism
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, i suppose it could have been possible, there were tram-activated switches already in place (was a custom solution by our local tram company around 50 years ago)
09:17<Flygon>Eddi|zuHause: I... uhm, admittedly, forgot that factor.
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: but that wasn't really that much of a problem, because there was not that much car traffic
09:18<Flygon>Though, I gotta say - It's a miracle we kept our Tram network at all. :V
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>but car numbers really exploded about 25 years ago
09:18<Flygon>Every single other city in the continent followed the American example blindly.
09:18<Flygon>About the only reason ours 'became' the biggest on the planet is because everyone tore up their even huger networks.
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>which suddenly created problems that weren't there before, while at the same time there was not enough money to solve all the other problems that built up over 40 years of communism
09:19<Flygon>Yeah, that rapid shift would be hugely problematic.
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>... while the whole economy was collapsing
09:20<Flygon>Yeah. It's truly impossible for someone like me to grasp the full effect of it.
09:20<Flygon>Being tucked away on my little corner of the planet.
09:20<Wolf01> shit, and I don't have the credit card...
09:21<Flygon>Wolf01: Have PayPal?
09:21<Flygon>Of the "If they don't take PayPal, I'll buy it for you if you send me the money" variety.
09:22<Flygon>Though. I must say.
09:22<Flygon>I've never heard of a modern store not taking PayPal.
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: but you definitely also need some of the expansions...
09:23<Wolf01>The problem is that I need 2 days to transfer money to paypal
09:23<Flygon>Oh, fuck.
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: paypal, at least here, offers to pull the money from your bank account, and will indicate that transfer to the receiver immediately (before they actually get the money)
09:25<Wolf01>I need to try to change my bank account tied to paypal
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: at least all the things i ever bought with paypal were delivered immediately
09:26<milek7>"pull the money fron your bank account"?
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: dunno how to describe it, or if it even has an english word
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: dictionary says "direct debit"
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>dunno how equivalent that is
09:28<milek7>but how it is authorized? just by iban number?
09:29<Wolf01>Meh... 4-5 days to confirm the account
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: i think they make a test charge on the account
09:32-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
09:32-!-frosch123 is "frosch" on #openttdcoop.devzone #openttd
09:33<Wolf01>Too bad paypal won't allow me to configure my debt card
09:33<milek7>but you only need to enter your bank account to pay from it, like in debit/credit cards?
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: yeah
09:34<Wolf01>You must confirm it with the data in the payment description they send you
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>mind you, i set that up like a decade ago, and don't remember all the details
09:37<milek7>sounds horribly insecure
09:38<Wolf01>Daniele Termini88188
09:39<Wolf01>Not an actual password :P
09:39<milek7>here payment providers typically have integration with bank api to redirect to bank site with prefilled transfer details
09:40<milek7>and they have account in all supported banks to verify payment immediately
09:43<andythenorth>@seen snail
09:43<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: snail was last seen in #openttd 8 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 41 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Snail> I’ll post something on his thread then, thanks
09:44<@Alberth>nice blue train :)
09:47-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: well, with debit payments like that, the account owner can reject the payment up to 6 weeks later
09:53-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
09:53-!-Progman is "Peter Henschel" on #openttdcoop #openttd
09:54<milek7>revert transfer already done? weird
09:56-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
09:56-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
10:00-!-Stimrol [] has joined #openttd
10:00-!-Stimrol is "Stimrol" on #openttd
10:01<Wolf01>I knew I shouldn't have changed bank, now I have 2 OTP devices and I should remove the old one... but I can't and I can't register the new one, and if they remove the old one I wouldn't be able to access to the web banking
10:15<andythenorth>and yet
10:15<andythenorth>OpenTTD does in fact seem to know what a brake van is
10:16<andythenorth>autoreplace handles brake vans perfectly
10:16*andythenorth just tested it
10:17<Wolf01>Did you try with autoremoval of wagons?
10:18<andythenorth>only removes the type(s) being replaced, if they’re too long
10:18<andythenorth>pretty neat
10:18<Wolf01>Even if you replace the engine with a longer one?
10:18<@Alberth>still a partial solution :p
10:18<andythenorth>Wolf01: dunno, didn’t try that
10:19<andythenorth>wagon removal doesn’t apply if it’s the engine that’s longer
10:19<Wolf01>Doesn't apply or fail with caboose?
10:20<andythenorth>seems not
10:23<Wolf01>You should enable the voting system on FS, there is one IIRC
10:24<andythenorth>oh god
10:24<andythenorth>that sounds super spiffy awesome
10:24<andythenorth>the reason “nothing gets patched” is clearly because we don’t have votes :D
10:24<Wolf01> hahah
10:29<andythenorth>so many George FS requests
10:30<Wolf01>Uhm... votes were enabled back in time
10:30-!-sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:30<andythenorth>votes are shit
10:31<Wolf01> look at this :P
10:31<Wolf01>22 votes
10:32<Wolf01>Also the most wanted tasks is disappeared
10:38*andythenorth wants to close 2302
10:40*andythenorth is probably biased
10:40<andythenorth>‘breakdowns: off’ all the way here
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>that is a BAD REASON
10:42<@Alberth>less severe breakdowns could persuade users to keep it on
10:45-!-Maraxus [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 54.0.1/20170628075643]]
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>although the main problem with breakdowns is not that they break down, but that you have no means of mitigation for your network
10:48<andythenorth>all that extra breakdowns stuff just seems like extra docs to write :P
10:48<andythenorth>also newgrf authors will want control over it
10:51<andythenorth>could we introduce a UI scripting language?
10:54<Wolf01>If the UI would be designed in xaml or similar it would be better
10:54*andythenorth sees a bunch of FS that is people wanting quite custom, specific ‘click this button’ crap
10:54<andythenorth>‘can haz magic button'
10:55*andythenorth has more buttons than needed already
10:55<andythenorth>I only just learnt what ‘force upgrade’ does
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>i think that one is my fault :p
10:57-!-Cubey [] has joined #openttd
10:57-!-Cubey is "Jaybar" on #openttd
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm, the next monument is going to be tricky, i need 10000 squares of office buildings (not commercial), and i only have short of 4000
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>and 0 demand for anything
11:00-!-Adrian [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Adrian is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
11:00-!-Adrian is now known as Guest2300
11:01<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: still looking for this? o_O
11:01<Guest2300>Hello. I downloaded World Airliners Set 0.1 from within the game. When using the NewGRF, airports are disabled in the game. Any idea why that might be?
11:02<andythenorth>this is a ‘no’, right? Want a new name, get a new ID
11:02*andythenorth is pretty certain, but eh
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, it has some use cases
11:04-!-minisylf [] has joined #openttd
11:04-!-minisylf is "Sylf" on #openttd #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop
11:06<andythenorth>orders are supposed to be deterministic?
11:06<andythenorth>or do I misunderstand?
11:06-!-quiznilo [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9]
11:08<@Alberth>power is pretty determinstic
11:09<andythenorth>totally randomisable
11:09<@Alberth>it's ok to use conditions, if the conditions are constants
11:09<andythenorth>nearly anything on a newgrf cb is not a constant
11:09<@Alberth>oh, ok
11:10<@Alberth>then yep, won't fly
11:10<@Alberth>although I never understood why you want to have orders depending on properties of that train
11:11<@Alberth>just adding useless complexity
11:14<_dp_>would be actually quite handy to fix mistakes with shared orders
11:14<_dp_>split them with orders rather than having hunt them all one-by-one
11:14<andythenorth>my FS mission here is partially to try and separate wood from trees
11:14<andythenorth>there are so many similar-ish requests
11:15<andythenorth>some might have a common grain of truth, maybe
11:15<andythenorth>I’ve killed nearly 100 issues I think
11:15<@Alberth>_dp_: open list of trains on same shared order, pick one, unshare, fix, pick other and share new, done
11:16<@Alberth>and different stats only works if you really have different engines
11:16<_dp_>Alberth, ... repeat 50 times, done :p
11:17<@Alberth>no, you can just share the new with all of them
11:18<_dp_>Alberth, what if I want to share new with only half of them?
11:18<andythenorth>send 50% of them to depot
11:18<andythenorth>scrap them
11:18<andythenorth>build new trains
11:18<@Alberth>how do you split a set of trains that are identical?
11:18<_dp_>usually happens when I accidently shared wrong orders with onther group already
11:18*andythenorth does that sometimes
11:18<andythenorth>but then we have autosave eh?
11:19<@Alberth>the right solution is to give them a new order, not keep sharing some meta-order
11:19<_dp_>It's not much of a problem if they are identical))
11:19<_dp_>But if it's say coal trains with farm trains orders...
11:20<_dp_>andythenorth, yeah, that's what I do sometimes but usually just ignore them
11:20<@Alberth>the point is, you don't always have stats that are different
11:21<_dp_>well, mb, I just though of a problem that might help to solve sometimes
11:21<@Alberth>and you still have the big meta order you cannot unshare between the groups
11:23<_dp_>Alberth, can send wrong ones into depot at least
11:24<andythenorth>shows in part the weakness of groups
11:24<andythenorth>group can be made from shared order, but no way to assign shared order to group
11:26<frosch123>from today's pov you would likely make groups work on top of shared orders
11:26<frosch123>you would display shared orders as "routes" and then group those
11:26<andythenorth>sounds plausible
11:27<frosch123>may be worth looking up the original groups topic
11:27<frosch123>to check what they were initially intended for :p
11:28-!-Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
11:29<frosch123> <- somewhere before that post
11:30<andythenorth>it was for replacing
11:30<andythenorth>related to mass-replacement of track
11:31-!-silly-tux [~alex@] has joined #openttd
11:31-!-silly-tux is "alex" on #openttd #debian-qa #fsci #osm
11:33-!-Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:33<andythenorth>such routes :P
11:34<frosch123>i guess it's all bjarni's fault :p
11:34<andythenorth>you should write a blame bot
11:34<andythenorth>they’re quite useful
11:34<andythenorth>DorpsGek: blame frosch123
11:34<andythenorth>see, DorpsGek doesn’t spread blame
11:35<andythenorth>@blame frosch123
11:38-!-gpsoft [] has joined #openttd
11:38-!-gpsoft is "realname" on #openttd
11:40-!-Gja [] has joined #openttd
11:40-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
11:41<andythenorth>55 comments on how to close windows? :D
11:42<frosch123>@blame andy
11:42<@DorpsGek>frosch123: blames andy
11:45-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:48<andythenorth>32 railtypes?
11:50<frosch123>combinatorial bs
11:50-!-Guest2300 [~oftc-webi@] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
11:51<andythenorth>you closing it, or me?
11:51*andythenorth is practicing saying ‘no’ in different ways
11:51<frosch123>i haven't visited forums in a week
11:51<frosch123>now i have > 30 unread flyspray mails :p
11:52<milek7>i think 240 companies is more useful :>
11:52<andythenorth>soooooory :P
11:52<andythenorth>I got more blunt about closing tasks, instead of ‘request closure'
11:53<frosch123>well, i have bookmarks to all the tasks i am interested in
11:53-!-quiznilo [] has joined #openttd
11:53-!-quiznilo is "CC" on #openttd
11:53<frosch123>so the status of a task never mattered
11:54<frosch123>bookmarks also work on forums and reddit and whateer
11:55<andythenorth>it’s become a meta-game, can I get below 700 tasks?
11:55-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
11:55-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
11:55<andythenorth>a lot of them are either legit, or way out my ability to judge
11:55<andythenorth>like all the crash reports :P
11:55<LordAro>there are quite a lot of crash reports where there's just not enough information to draw any meaningful conclusion from
11:56<frosch123>well, one conclusion is to replace icu with harfbuzz
11:56<andythenorth>if we’re not doing six-sigma statistics to cluster bug reports
11:57<andythenorth>then all the ones that lack info should be shut
11:57<andythenorth>they’re just noise
11:59<frosch123>maybe we can excite LordAro to read up on harfbuzz :)
11:59<andythenorth>go on then LordAro
11:59<andythenorth>be a hero
11:59<andythenorth>you can do it:)
11:59<andythenorth>then SDL 2
11:59<andythenorth>proper stuff
12:00*andythenorth deletes a “Toll Plazas” feature request
12:00<andythenorth>not happening
12:00<LordAro>Alberth can do SDL2
12:01<LordAro>what's wrong with ICU, anyway?
12:01<frosch123>it crashes a lot on newer windows with newer standard fonts
12:01<frosch123>like "times new roman"
12:01<frosch123>it's also deprecated//unsupported for n years
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: who would ever use that font?
12:02<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it was the example on the wiki :p
12:02<frosch123>which means that it worked for years, and then with either a windows upgrade or a compile farm upgrade it broke
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: and who reads the wiki?
12:03<frosch123>isn't it the most linked page here?
12:03<LordAro>frosch123: look through my patch queue(s) and we'll talk :p
12:03<andythenorth>one more closure and I hit 750 left :P
12:04<andythenorth>nobody add any more :P
12:04<LordAro>andythenorth: what, ever? :p
12:05-!-dark_pingus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: well, since there's no development there can't be new bugs, and new feature requests will be deleted by andy anyway, so...
12:08<andythenorth>if feature requests are what drives development, we have enough :P
12:08<andythenorth>is that how it works? o_O
12:10<@Alberth>most FS requests don't count as such, since they are non-feasible, or too edge-case
12:13-!-Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
12:13<andythenorth>peter1138 has a patch for that
12:15-!-dark_pingus [] has joined #openttd
12:15-!-dark_pingus is "dark pingus" on #openttd
12:16<andythenorth>yay 750
12:17<andythenorth>Can we remove inflation entirely?
12:17<andythenorth>then we can close this as 100% implemented
12:18<frosch123>i came to the conclusion that it's not even worth the effort to discuss money stuff
12:18<andythenorth>I would be prepared to answer all player whining if we just delete inflation
12:19<Wolf01>Bah, I'm bored
12:19<frosch123>Wolf01: read up on halfbuzz :p
12:20<andythenorth>or delete inflation
12:20<andythenorth>it could be the actual April Fool’s
12:20<andythenorth>“No we really have deleted it"
12:23<Wolf01>"changed fonts to comic sans"
12:23<frosch123>ottd is an old game, dom casual would fit better
12:28<andythenorth>frosch123: this never shipped? o_O
12:31<andythenorth>this is fricking stupid
12:31<LordAro>oh, that's why vim's syntax highlighting is freaking out
12:31<LordAro>it thinks this file is cobol
12:32<andythenorth>why change the palette on a newgrf? All they do is break
12:32-!-Gja [] has joined #openttd
12:32-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
12:33*andythenorth closed it
12:35<@Alberth>saving makes sense, to solve the problem for older newgrfs
12:36<@Alberth>but that could be done together with saving parameter settings
12:36<andythenorth>“don’t use broken newgrfs” imho
12:36<frosch123>we may have outlived the problem :p
12:38<frosch123>oh, now it's 43 unread mails
12:38<frosch123>maybe i should get a new account
12:40<andythenorth>set up a rule
12:40<andythenorth>FS -> trash
12:40*andythenorth stopped reading email 5 years ago
12:41<andythenorth>oops, bored again
12:41<andythenorth>got to 742 :P
12:41<andythenorth>verified a non-bug even
12:41<andythenorth>I love this meta one :)
12:43<LordAro>frosch123: well, i've got as far as getting the configure script to find harfbuzz :p
12:44<LordAro>(why do we reimplement most of autoconf, anyway)
12:44<LordAro>frosch123: now my patches :p
12:44<frosch123>i only now about the search thing
12:45<frosch123>no idea what your plural refers to
12:45<LordAro>(incidentally, harfbuzz has basically 0 documentation)
12:45<LordAro> (sort thing) (various, mostly warning fixes)
12:45<LordAro>(0001 probably doesn't matter)
12:46<Wolf01><LordAro> (incidentally, harfbuzz has basically 0 documentation) <- yeah I noticed that even "integrating harfbuzz on a project" is not helpful
12:48<LordAro>(and 0007 & 0008 are basically "i'm bored")
12:53<andythenorth>is this a useful optimisation?
12:54<frosch123>it doesn't have a diff
12:55<_dp_>speed optimizations are generally useless without a profiler report
12:55<LordAro>both RB & SZ seem rather sceptical about it
13:05<_dp_>yeah, fps is nice to know sometimes
13:06<@Alberth>it's fixed
13:06<frosch123>ottd is a cinematic game, it has fps locked to 30
13:07<LordAro>doesn't seem like there's a good replacement for the ICU sort/collation stuff
13:07<_dp_>it definitely doesn't do all 30 sometimes :p
13:07<Wolf01>But ticks per second change a lot
13:07<LordAro>"time taken to process frame" could be useful
13:08<LordAro>unless i could do something with std::locale
13:12<_dp_>Wolf01, do they? it depends on hardware but otherwise seem pretty stable
13:12<LordAro>frosch123: ew, C functions :p
13:12<frosch123>my experiences with std::locale are terrible
13:13<LordAro>not seeing a way to do it case insensitively (as per strnatcmp) with either anyway
13:13<frosch123>at least for gcc 4.5 and 4.8 they consistently perform worse than the equivalent c functions
13:13<andythenorth>I thought this was unsolvable? o_O
13:13<andythenorth>due to variation in semantics of subtype across vehicles
13:14<andythenorth>no vocabulary = no way to compare semantics
13:14<andythenorth>way too much complexity to solve
13:14<LordAro>well, i guess passing locale to to_lower could solve that
13:16<frosch123>LordAro: anyway, rendering and sorting are independent icu libraries
13:16<LordAro>frosch123: tbf, i can't imagine the string sorting is a performance-critical bit of the program
13:16<frosch123>i think the sorting is still supported
13:17<LordAro>googling "icu support" isn't all that helpful
13:18<frosch123>there is a release from april 2017
13:19<frosch123>it learned about unicode emoji
13:19<LordAro>aye, i've found the mailing list
13:19<LordAro>what's your source on the layout stuff being unsupported though?
13:19<frosch123>the offical docs
13:20<frosch123> <- even removed meanwhile
13:23<frosch123>debian stable has icu 57
13:23<frosch123>so i guess that's why i haven't noticed
13:31-!-tycoondemon [] has joined #openttd
13:31-!-tycoondemon is "..." on #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop #openttd
13:31<andythenorth>did someone implement consist templates? o_O
13:32<LordAro>istr a video
13:32<frosch123>i think the current one is by juanjo
13:34<frosch123> <- nah, it's ffpp
13:37<andythenorth>oh yeah
13:37<andythenorth>the UI freaked me out with it’s ugliness
13:37<andythenorth>so I didn’t try the patch
13:39*andythenorth wonders if eventually one of the patchpacks will win
13:39<andythenorth>and supplant OpenTTD
13:39-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:43-!-orudge` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:43-!-orudge` [] has joined #openttd
13:43-!-orudge` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
13:43-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
13:51<andythenorth>eh 723 tickets :P
13:51<LordAro>getting closer :)
13:51<LordAro>frosch123: so them patches ;)
13:53<andythenorth>seems I closed 92 or so :P
13:53<andythenorth>“Not a current goal for OpenTTD” is my favourite rationale
13:53<andythenorth>totally 100% true :P
13:56-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
13:56-!-Zuu is "Leif" on #openttdcoop.nightly #freerct #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone #openttd.noai
13:58<_dp_>does it even have a goal?
13:59<andythenorth>somewhere in the wiki ;)
13:59<LordAro>"Roadmap 1.8"
14:02-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
14:02-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
14:04<andythenorth>did we actually move to git yet? o_O
14:05<LordAro> sure
14:06<andythenorth>no pull requests there :D
14:06<LordAro>your work is clearly done then
14:07<Zuu>It says that you should send pull requests to
14:08<andythenorth>I can delete them there :)
14:10-!-eekee1 [~ethan@] has joined #openttd
14:10-!-eekee1 is "purple" on #openttd
14:15-!-eekee [~ethan@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:19<andythenorth>these goals are actually really good
14:19*andythenorth can reject more FS with them :)
14:29-!-orudge` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:30-!-orudge` [] has joined #openttd
14:30-!-orudge` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
14:30-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
14:31<LordAro>(gdb) p fonts[size].size()
14:31<LordAro>$7 = 0
14:31<LordAro>(gdb) p fonts[size].begin() == fonts[size].end()
14:31<LordAro>$8 = false
14:31<LordAro>this is an issue
14:38<LordAro>initialisation order
14:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27893 /trunk/src (60 files in 12 dirs) (2017-08-13 20:38:42 +0200 )
14:38<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Use fallthrough attribute. (LordAro)
14:40<frosch123>about the multibyte-constants: i am thinking about a macro "#define DWORD_STR(a,b,c,d) (a | b<<8 | c<<16 | d<<24)"
14:40<frosch123>not sure about the name
14:40<LordAro>yeah, maybe something like that
14:40<frosch123>but the manual conversion to hex is meh
14:40<LordAro>if we had C++14 we could do "NUMB"_custom_suffix
14:40<frosch123>also i wonder whether railtypes work on big endian :p
14:41<LordAro>indeed :)
14:41<frosch123>oh, i made some indentation changes in some places and removed your TODO
14:42<frosch123>depend.cpp was left as it
14:42<frosch123>stdafx.h could not be easily added
14:42*LordAro checks
14:42<LordAro>oh, could it not?
14:42<frosch123>depend.cpp seems to include a partial copy of stuff
14:43<frosch123>i also don't know what depend may use, and what is still being generated
14:55<V453000>yo huminz
14:55<V453000>I got a shitload of mails about closed FS things from andythenorth :D
14:56<Zuu>V453000: me too.
14:57<Zuu>That is why the link to the irc logs on the wiki is now updated. :-)
14:57<frosch123>V453000: i have 53
14:57<frosch123>can you top that?
14:59-!-glx [] has joined #openttd
14:59-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:59-!-glx is "Loïc GUILLOUX" on +#openttd
15:03<andythenorth>why would anyone read email, ever :P
15:04<andythenorth>I am tempted to close some of the 55 or so that george has open
15:04<andythenorth>some are pretty legit
15:04<andythenorth>don’t want to upset george though :P
15:08-!-gpsoft_ [] has joined #openttd
15:08-!-gpsoft_ is "realname" on #openttd
15:13-!-gpsoft [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:16-!-Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
15:27-!-gpsoft [] has joined #openttd
15:27-!-gpsoft is "realname" on #openttd
15:30-!-gpsoft__ [] has joined #openttd
15:30-!-gpsoft__ is "realname" on #openttd
15:32-!-gpsoft_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:32-!-gpsoft_ [] has joined #openttd
15:32-!-gpsoft_ is "realname" on #openttd
15:36-!-gpsoft [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:36-!-gpsoft [] has joined #openttd
15:36-!-gpsoft is "realname" on #openttd
15:38-!-gpsoft__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:41-!-gpsoft_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:47-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
15:49-!-NCommander [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:51-!-sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
15:51-!-sim-al2 is "sim-al2" on #openttd @#/r/openttd
15:55-!-Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:09<andythenorth>I won my ebay game
16:09<andythenorth>now I have to find a new ebay game
16:10<LordAro>oh no
16:12<frosch123>do you sell fs tasks on ebay?
16:15<andythenorth>I seek out relatively rare HO trains at a fair price :P
16:15<andythenorth>it can take months to find the right one
16:15<andythenorth>searching is more fun than winning
16:21<frosch123>andythenorth: where is the vertical line patch?
16:22<andythenorth>Wolf01: ^
16:26<andythenorth>I’ve got a patch file, but I think Wolf has a newer/better version :P
16:28<andythenorth>there was some critique of it
16:30-!-Hiddenfunstuff [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:32-!-orudge` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33-!-orudge` [] has joined #openttd
16:33-!-orudge` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
16:33-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
16:34<V453000>I guess HO is pretty damn large eh
16:34<V453000>just found a random engine for $600 :D
16:35<andythenorth>how about?
16:35<V453000>5000 eurs for a train?
16:35<V453000>ok only 2k pounds for that one :D
16:36*andythenorth not buyng
16:36<V453000>what in the shit :D
16:36<andythenorth>I have 2k pounds of trains
16:36<andythenorth>but way more than 2 engines :P
16:37<V453000>I suddenly feel less bad about buying a $5000 computer :)
16:37<V453000>also bought daughter her first lego duplo train with rails
16:37<V453000>big milestone
16:38<V453000>for now just this
16:38<V453000>she likes it
16:38<V453000>I keep her for now
16:39<V453000>ok so why is that HO stuff so expensive? :D
16:39<V453000>or at least the thousand pound models
16:39<V453000>nvm forget I asked
16:40<andythenorth>usually it’s hand-built
16:40<andythenorth>time = money etc :P
16:40<andythenorth>DuploError: NoSpottyDog
16:40<V453000>iz goat though
16:41<V453000>I get that it's hand built but being worth more than a car is kind of ... :D
16:41<V453000>wife would be thrilled I'm sure
16:42<V453000>ok enough internet for today apparently
16:42<andythenorth>such bed
16:42<V453000>hm not sure if we have that one yet
16:42<V453000>pretty sure we don't
16:42<andythenorth>dog arrives in tractor
16:43<V453000>christmas is soon I guess
16:44<andythenorth>eh, from ‘wanted contributions’ list :|
16:56<__ln___>greetings from the austro-hungarian empire
16:57-!-mescalito [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58<andythenorth>glad I found this :)
16:58<__ln___>nah, budapest
16:58<andythenorth>was about to add mixed-cargo articulated stuff to IH
16:58<andythenorth>buda or pest?
17:08*andythenorth went to the hot baths once
17:08<andythenorth>also bed
17:08-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
17:08-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
17:16<Wolf01>__ln___: do you plan to travel near Venice someday?
17:21-!-sla_ro|master [] has quit []
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>i almost went to venice once, but then didn't
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>that was like 20 years ago, though
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>we were in istria, and there was a daytrip to venice available, by catamaran
17:23<Wolf01>There is a lot to see in the mainland too, depends on what is your interest
17:24-!-wodencafe [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>well, you just need to say that you're throwing an openttd party... :p
17:27<Wolf01>Too bad I don't have enough space at home
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>> nmlc -v
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>ImportError: No module named 'ply'
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>dangit, i haven't used this in forever
17:33-!-Guest1872 is now known as ToBeFree
17:43-!-ToBeFree is now known as Guest2323
17:43-!-ToBeFree [] has joined #openttd
17:43-!-ToBeFree is "Tobias "ToBeFree" Frei" on #https-everywhere #oolite-dev #openttd #tor #debian #linux #oolite #oolite-ger
17:54-!-ToBeFree [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:00-!-dark_pingus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:03-!-gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
18:38-!-Wormnest [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:41<Shoshonite>Are the offsets in NewGRF's graphic templates in pixels or some other quasi-magical unit?
18:45-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:47-!-Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
18:47-!-Biolunar is "Biolunar" on #openttd #suckless
18:55-!-orudge` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:55-!-orudge` [] has joined #openttd
18:55-!-orudge` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
18:55-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
19:03-!-debdog [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
19:05-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
19:05-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
19:14-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
19:23*NGC3982 is going to play ttd for the first time in years.
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>what blasphemy! nobody here actually PLAYS the game.
19:25-!-Biolunar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25<NGC3982>is firs and ukrs2 still the better grfs?
19:25<Wolf01>We allow you to do it, but only for a brief time and just to test some grf combinations
19:30-!-Stimrol [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:46-!-cHawk [] has joined #openttd
19:46-!-cHawk is "realname" on #openttd #tor
19:54-!-orudge` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:54-!-orudge` [] has joined #openttd
19:54-!-orudge` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
19:54-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
20:21-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
20:23-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
20:23-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
21:09-!-Arveen2 [] has joined #openttd
21:09-!-Arveen2 is "realname" on #openttdcoop #openttd
21:12-!-Arveen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:12-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:28-!-sim-al2 is now known as Guest2334
21:28-!-sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
21:28-!-sim-al2 is "sim-al2" on #openttd @#/r/openttd
21:33-!-Guest2334 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:42-!-Flygon [] has joined #openttd
21:42-!-Flygon is "Flygon" on #openttd
21:51-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
22:20-!-Sylf [] has joined #openttd
22:20-!-Sylf is "Sylf" on #openttd #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop
22:22-!-minisylf [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:00-!-Eearslya [] has joined #openttd
23:00-!-Eearslya is "Unknown" on #openttd
23:00-!-silly-tux [~alex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
---Logclosed Mon Aug 14 00:00:12 2017