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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-08-15

---Logopened Tue Aug 15 00:00:13 2017
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02:06<V453000>Wolf: do these patches combined give some new graphics? :D
02:06<V453000>want ot see them piles
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02:52<V453000>thenorth he is, the evil discarder of FS tasks
02:55<andythenorth>such and many
02:56<andythenorth>this is what an issue tracker should look like
03:10<V453000>vubec paralelne?
03:10<V453000>I win
03:10<V453000>nobody ever reported a bug report
03:10<V453000>must be perfect grf
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03:46<andythenorth>is perfect grf
03:47<LordAro>andythenorth is perfect grf
03:47<LordAro>got it
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06:42<Wolf01>Is it?
06:42<Wolf01>Did you ship depot train length
06:43<andythenorth>not me
06:43<andythenorth>not good enough devloloper
06:44<Wolf01>Ask in tt-f/ottd-dev for help?
06:45<andythenorth>ach people keep adding tickets
06:45<andythenorth>can’t kill them fast enough
06:46<andythenorth>Wolf01: I saved a search for crashes, and have been trying to repro them
06:46<andythenorth>I also think we should make an explicit supported versions policy, but that needs not just andythenorth
06:46<Wolf01>+1 too
06:47<Wolf01>I can help you on that (both) I know a bit of flyspray as I was the admin for the one at my last job
06:48<Wolf01>But I used the 1.0b
06:52<Wolf01>Oh, there is even a 1.0 RC4 :o
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07:00<_dp_>andythenorth, why don't you set reproducible crashes to confirmed?
07:01<_dp_>I may try to help fixing some that are reproducible on linux btw
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07:03<@planetmaker>_dp_, just post the fix :)
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07:23<_dp_>planetmaker, do at least crash patches get reviewed? there isn't much point to "just post" it if there is no one to merge it ;)
07:26<@planetmaker>I would hope so. Best approach is probably to bring up the topic here, though
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07:32<_dp_>uh, ok. Though I don't usually like to bring fs issues here since that's what bugtracker should be for imo, not irc
07:33<andythenorth>_dp_: I can only set it to confirmed if I assign it to me
07:33<andythenorth>then I cant unassign it
07:33<andythenorth>FS is absolutely totally shit
07:33<andythenorth>but it’s not the current problem :)
07:33<LordAro>upgrade to FS1.0!
07:33<LordAro>i'm sure that will solve everything
07:33<andythenorth>lipstick, pig :P
07:33<_dp_>andythenorth, that sucks :(
07:34<_dp_>andythenorth, make as user "Nobody" and assign tasks to him xD
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07:35<andythenorth>ach wifi
07:36<Wolf01>The savegame crashes on load because it tries to get a town with an unused index O_o
07:37<Wolf01>Maybe it's really corrupted
07:38<andythenorth>I would like to get the number of crashes down to ~0
07:38<V453000>btw andythenorth I managed to win the internet yesterday
07:38<V453000>thing works 100%
07:38<andythenorth>V453000: screenshot?
07:38<V453000>now just need to add parameters
07:38<V453000>don't have it here, at work
07:38<Wolf01><LordAro> i'm sure that will solve everything <- nope, maybe it even breaks things
07:38<andythenorth>didn’t happen then
07:38<V453000>XD K later
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07:41<_dp_>andythenorth, some crashes are ridiculously hard to hunt down, I remember openttd crashing due to a bug in a specific version of a compiler
07:42<andythenorth>if we can’t repro them, they should get discarded
07:42<_dp_>if it wasn't the version I was using there is no chance I could ever find that
07:42<andythenorth>if we can repro but can’t diagnose…that’s hard
07:42<andythenorth>ideally we’d restore the ‘phone home’ system that used to exist
07:43<andythenorth>but with statistical methods to cluster common bugs
07:43<andythenorth>that is a boatload of work
07:43<V453000>made wife turn on pc :P
07:43<andythenorth>V453000: heroic
07:43<andythenorth>works eh? o_O
07:43<andythenorth>PIL ftw
07:43<V453000>I had to crop the outputs because the combining didn't seem to work without RGBA, but that's probably just because some of my lists inside of other lists were fucked up
07:45<V453000>iz magic
07:45<andythenorth>so do with all those slices, it is MOAR faster?
07:46<V453000>at the moment the colour comparer goes through all 0-255 indexes of the palette ... I am going to add parameters which allow/disallow colour types and specific indexes, which will 1. make it a lot faster if I use just, say, 16 colours for some pictures, 2. make it controllable - if I don't like some specific index it outputs, I just disable it in that run
07:46<V453000>it should be moar faster
07:46<V453000>I didn't Really test that yet though
07:46<Wolf01>It's nice that "Additional comments about closing: In r10735." I can't find r10735
07:46<andythenorth>V453000: ^
07:46<andythenorth>it’s like map:reduce
07:48<V453000>well it seems to run in parralel all fine, I just don't know how much the difference actually is
07:48<andythenorth>split, process, combine
07:48<V453000>probably not 16x
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07:48<andythenorth>I get about 2x usually
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07:48<andythenorth>sometimes 4x
07:49<V453000>I don't even remember how much time it took originally so :)
07:49<andythenorth>there’s a lot of starting python, and passing stuff around that adds overhead
07:49<V453000>also I feel like the latest change to using the palette whenever possible and only accessing RGBA when absolutely necessary made it faster
07:49<andythenorth>likely smaller images, faster, less RAM
07:49<V453000>drastically smaller images
07:50<V453000>well I go hunt lunch, probably not going to continue coding tonight as I will not have keyboard, just tablet, but during weekend I hope to finish it :)
07:50<V453000>with the parameters it will be absolutely glorious
07:50<V453000>now it's just automated and works well, plus the antialiasing handling
07:52<andythenorth>such win
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07:57<Wolf01>What happened in 10735... that's a mistery
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08:07<andythenorth>Wolf01: if we could get crashes < 25, they’d fit on one page :D
08:08<andythenorth>and this one isn’t even a crash :)
08:08<Wolf01>Ask LordAro :P
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08:13<LordAro>forgot about that one
08:13<andythenorth>do you want it closed? o_O
08:16<frosch123>it's on the official todo list :p
08:17<frosch123>so, what to do? review patches or expand the iron ore mining sites?
08:18<andythenorth>play FIRS of course
08:18<andythenorth>and drink tea
08:19<frosch123>i thought i would never get achievements in factorio, since i always entered cheat commands at the start of a game to make the beginning faster
08:19<frosch123>then i got tired of enternig the commands and wrote a mod which does the same
08:19<frosch123>funnily cheat mods do not disable achievements like the actual cheats do
08:20<frosch123>now i wonder about the intention of the "produce 20M basic circuit achievements"
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08:20<andythenorth>now I want to play F to find out :P
08:20<andythenorth>but I tried F
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08:22<frosch123>now i have launched 26 satellites but the 20M achievement is only 20% complete
08:22<frosch123>i get achievements where you have to produce N amount per hour, and I think I got all of them
08:23<andythenorth>achievements are…dunno
08:23<Wolf01> <- wtf people even try to hurt themselves like this?
08:23<frosch123>but a produce N within a game achievement is weird, if it is not completed in an extensive playthrough
08:23<frosch123>am i supposed to just leave it running over night? :p
08:23<andythenorth>I do achievements in my kids dragon games because they produce gems
08:23<andythenorth>but in other games, the achievements seem quite meh often
08:23<andythenorth>‘drive 5000 miles in your truck'
08:24<andythenorth>‘visit Hamburg'
08:24<andythenorth>I guess that’s what Busy Bee does though :)
08:24<Wolf01><frosch123> am i supposed to just leave it running over night? :p <- no, you just play for 1 hour
08:24<LordAro>andythenorth: iirc i did it because it was on the official todo list
08:24<LordAro>would be a shame to lose it
08:25<LordAro>even though i'm sure it wouldn't be a great loss (i can't remember and i've not looked)
08:25<andythenorth>seems fair
08:26<LordAro>Wolf01: doesn't matter, game shouldn't crash :p
08:26<andythenorth>Wolf01: looks like someone who would be good at a QA job ;)
08:26<andythenorth>quite specific attack and repro
08:26<_dp_>or just a typo :p
08:26<Wolf01>I don't even know how to do it
08:27<_dp_>does anything but connect command even matter for that crash?
08:27<andythenorth>dunno :)
08:27<andythenorth>way out of my wheelhouse :)
08:29<Wolf01>I can't reproduce it
08:30<Wolf01>But I tried with a local server, maybe with an online server is different
08:30<andythenorth>Wolf01: did you do? ”Client: Execute 'connect <server-ip>#N', where N is greater than 15 and less than 255.”
08:31<Wolf01>You can read the commands I issued
08:31<andythenorth>I did :)
08:32<Wolf01>BTW, the error message should be split in 2: "company does not exist" and "company-id must be between 1 and 15"
08:37<andythenorth>how can that be done?
08:37<andythenorth>patchpack? :P
08:38<Wolf01>The crash?
08:38<andythenorth>nah, the split
08:42<Wolf01>Just a patch
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08:43<Wolf01>Btw, I tried with connect, it won't let me join a company "30" but it exits to titlescreen with a "protocol error" when connecting to company "2" which does not exists
08:43<Wolf01>No crash
08:44<andythenorth>did you try connecting to the IP address ?
08:45<Wolf01>connect ::1#254 puts me in company 1, connect ::1#2 exits with protocol error
08:47<Wolf01>Maybe on win10 works differently
08:47<andythenorth>I should try and repro this I guess :P
08:48<andythenorth>my list of grfs I don’t want is getting bigger
08:48<andythenorth>that makes my openttd start a lot slower :P
08:48<Wolf01> second image, something fishy
08:49<_dp_>there is join_as > MAX_COMPANIES so idk hot to reproduce that crash
08:49<Wolf01>Also fuck italian, just installed the 1.7.1 and got italian again
08:51<_dp_>Wolf01, weird, connect ::1#254 doesn't do anythin for me
08:51<_dp_>just writes command usage msg
08:51<_dp_>mb some memory corruption happening here
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08:52<Wolf01>Nice that consistency between different OSes
08:55<_dp_>hm, looking at server parsing function, is it even supposed to parse ::1 ?
08:55<_dp_>oh, there is ipv6 check beforehand, nvm
09:00<_dp_>funny tho it "parses" any garbage you throw at it
09:00<Wolf01>BTW, I can see my server with both ipv4 and ipv6, maybe that's the problem
09:01<Wolf01>I can connect without problems with "connect ::1#1" from titlescreen
09:02<Wolf01>But #2 -> protocol error
09:02<_dp_>Wolf01, yeah, it doesn't know beforehand if company #2 exists on server, so that's expected I guess
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09:03<Wolf01>It should create a company if valid and server allows new companies
09:03<_dp_>Wolf01, but there is a check for >15 so it shouldn't work let alone crash
09:04<Wolf01>Ok from title screen, #1 works, #2 protocol error, #255 spectator, #254 command usage
09:05<_dp_>Wolf01, that's debatable, I'd say just giving a better error message is a way to go
09:05<_dp_>Wolf01, yeah, same here
09:05<Wolf01>I can't reproduce that crash
09:06<_dp_>waaait a sec...
09:06<Wolf01>Both with ::1 and
09:07*andythenorth debugging javascript :|
09:09<_dp_>ok, it accepts negative company numbers but I still can't get it to crash
09:09<Wolf01>Are you on win 10 too?
09:09<_dp_>but at least it tries to connect
09:09<_dp_>I'm on ubuntu)
09:10<andythenorth>he scrolled up on the company list?
09:11<andythenorth>oh nvm
09:11*andythenorth misreading
09:12<Wolf01>Company list/current company works for me
09:13<andythenorth>summarise attempted repros, put on the ticket?
09:13<andythenorth>ask if it’s consistently reproducible for OP?
09:13<andythenorth>might have been a one-off, totally unrelated crash
09:13<Wolf01>Need someone wint win 7
09:13<andythenorth>steps read like OP tried it a few times to verify
09:14<andythenorth>it’s had like what, 2 people looking for 30 mins each
09:14<andythenorth>back to OP
09:15<Wolf01>Tried exact steps ad OP, no crash
09:15<Wolf01>Both joining as company 1 and spectator, and tried to click on company button
09:22<_dp_>code looks kinda fishy tho, it may be possible to crash it
09:22<_dp_>just not with any company number
09:26<_dp_>basically it sends unsigned company id to server but locally joins with signed
09:27<_dp_>there are checks for company id everywhere but it may be possible to avoid them by exploiting implicit conversions
09:28<_dp_>and yeah, since it's undefined behavior can be definitely different on other OS
09:31<_dp_>connect ::1#4294967296 starts new company xD
09:32<Wolf01>::1#0 should start a new company too
09:32<Wolf01>Reading the code
09:32<_dp_>Wolf01, yeah, it does
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09:44<Wolf01>Maybe Win10 is not affected by this problem
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10:07<supermop>lot's of theory and philosophy in the forum huh?
10:07<supermop>damn it
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10:36<_dp_>WARNING: client 1 (IP: ::1) tried to execute a command as company 256, kicking...
10:36<_dp_>close but no cookie :/
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11:18<_dp_>Day 254. Still no crash. But I found a cute little bug.
11:20<_dp_>It's a miracle it hasn't crashed yet tho, it's in completely broken state
11:20<_dp_>like I can open mb lobby while still playing on server
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11:32<andythenorth>who does have commit rights these days? o_O
11:33<@peter1138>probably me
11:35<andythenorth>there’s probably a list
11:35<andythenorth>probably in git :P
11:37<andythenorth>peter1138: you’re nearly winning ;)
11:40<@peter1138>miles away
11:41<_dp_>is there a way to see commit log for that branch?
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11:43<andythenorth>peter1138: fix typos in comments, 1 commit at a time
11:44<andythenorth>so do I have more total commits than anyone?
11:44<andythenorth>stupid game :P
11:45<@peter1138>_dp_, long since deleted i think. silly svn.
11:45<@peter1138>maybe if you check out that svn revision it'll be in there
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12:15<Wolf01>MB wrote: "Hehe. Posting anything like this would result into immediate removal on tt-forums. :p" shit... does he even believe about this? Does he believe tt-f is a police state? Ive seen topics closed, yes, devs being grumpy, yes, but I expect this behavior more from simuscape than tt-f
12:15<Wolf01>(I'm reading the "old discussion")
12:15<andythenorth>Michael is Michael
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12:16<andythenorth>he was there right at the start somewhere, and then things changed
12:16<Wolf01>He never assimilated than TTDPatch lost its life to OTTD
12:16<andythenorth>I spent a relatively long time talking to SAC directly on Simuscape, and could never get her to provide evidence or links to the actual problems she claimed were rampant
12:17<andythenorth>and I wouldn’t retread that ground :P
12:17<Wolf01>For me it was the most natural of the things, one limited system to change things losing appeal in favour of an open system
12:17<andythenorth>been there, done that
12:17<Wolf01>Yes, I read all of it
12:17<andythenorth>ideally some group would usurp OpenTTD with a credible fork
12:17<Wolf01>You are stupid but I don't tell you why
12:18<Wolf01>Childish way of thinking
12:18<Wolf01>Also... woman
12:18<andythenorth>nah, it’s not gendered behaviour
12:18<andythenorth>don’t bring that into it :P
12:19<Wolf01>Did you notice also how she softened when you talked about going back to newgrf coding?
12:20<andythenorth>I have put it all from my mind :)
12:20<Wolf01>I read that as "he could the stuff I want for (me) us"
12:20<Wolf01>*could do
12:20<andythenorth>there are other people having plenty of fun without the drama
12:20<andythenorth>like GarryG
12:21<andythenorth>peter1138: such stations? o_O
12:23<Wolf01>Does he want the whole station animate and not just the tiles where the train is in?
12:24<Wolf01>Simulating the pax moving from platform to entrance or something, maybe
12:24<Wolf01>Answer "yes, it's possible, just find one who can do this"
12:25<andythenorth>animtation triggers are beyond what I understand :P
12:25*andythenorth can’t type
12:34<@peter1138>andythenorth, beyond me too!
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12:43<andythenorth>we could probably learn :P
12:43<andythenorth>it’s a valid goal
12:43<andythenorth>it’s just changing 3 values in the table here
12:44<andythenorth>oh and in src :P
12:44<andythenorth>is newgrf_station.cpp a scary place?
12:45<@peter1138>might not even be the right place
12:46*andythenorth found a line
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12:46<andythenorth>looks like that
12:46<andythenorth>just a list eh
12:46<Wolf01>andythenorth: speaking of police state <- ok, it's necroposting, but was that post edited? Was a reply to a deleted post? Or was just a warning?
12:47<andythenorth>nobody wants to reopen the pain
12:49<andythenorth>peter1138: what could go wrong? o_O
12:49<andythenorth>break existing grfs?
12:49<andythenorth>break savegames?
12:50<@peter1138>obviously not the right answer :p
12:50<@peter1138>that isn't adding things
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13:02<FLHerne> about declaring Cirdan's fork the official version? :P
13:03<FLHerne>He seems to be one of not many patch authors who's really tried to improve the core structures
13:03<Wolf01>But only if he wants to maintain the bugtracker
13:04<FLHerne>And does have a lot of the features people keep demanding
13:04<FLHerne>(s/people/I/ :P)
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13:04<Wolf01>Eh, also I want a lot of features
13:05<Wolf01>But I never loved mods and patchpacks much, mainly because trunk might change, patchpacks might not be updated anymore, mods will become incompatible...
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13:07<Wolf01>I stopped using modded minecraft versions because they used a core game version which is really behind the actual one, mainly stating doing so because "the core game new features are shit in relation to the mod ones"
13:07<andythenorth>maybe I’ll do a fork
13:07<Wolf01>(see better than wolves, for example)
13:07<@peter1138>yeah they stuck on 1.7.10 for years
13:07<@peter1138>there are individual mods for 1.12.1 though
13:07<@peter1138>i'm sticking with visual mods only really
13:08<@peter1138>eg dynamic surroundings and better foliage
13:08<andythenorth>delete: timetables, smooth economy, conditional orders
13:08<andythenorth>bigger hammer
13:08<Wolf01>Also, patchpacks are usually maintained by a single, which mean you must accept his vision and not a vision of a community
13:08<andythenorth>andypack :P
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13:09<Wolf01>Even if Cirdan's one has a lot of community requested features, I don't feel to play it like the vanilla
13:11<Wolf01>If I'll ever play a patchpack again, I'll stary my one, like andy :P
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13:13<FLHerne>Cirdan's one really has stopped being a "patchpack" in a conventional sense though, he reimplemented the map array, cargo handling, sprite stuff and other core things that aren't directly related to user-visible features
13:14<_dp_>FLHerne, does he still maintain backwards compatibility?
13:14<FLHerne>Not in the reverse direction, though
13:15<FLHerne>(load savegames up to the most recent trunk merge)
13:15<Wolf01>I've never read much about it, but if the single patches are branched, I think they could even be considered to be merged in trunk in future, maybe a distant future
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13:15<Wolf01>And I'm not speaking about daylength or signals on bridges, but the core optimizations
13:16<Wolf01>BTW GTG BBL
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13:45<@peter1138>ok, i'm on windows 10
13:45<@peter1138>how do i dev on openttd?
13:47<frosch123>Wolf01 should know
13:47<@peter1138>i'm still thinking vm with linux :p
13:47<frosch123>i think wolf is using the ubuntu subsystem
13:48<LordAro>peter1138: it wouldn't be a bad thing for someone to get VS2017 working :p
13:48<frosch123>someone did and said that the vs2015 projects work
13:49<LordAro>well that's boring
13:49<@peter1138>i prefer vim :p
13:52<_dp_>why does openttd call FcInit 12 times on start?
13:52<_dp_>takes like 1-2 sec each on my pc
13:54<LordAro>_dp_: do you have a custom font set?
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13:54<_dp_>LordAro, ofc
13:54<LordAro>probably that then
13:54<_dp_>LordAro, I understand one but not 12 times
13:54<LordAro>3 font sizes
13:55<LordAro>and it doesn't appear to be cached at all
13:56<_dp_>LordAro, so? it's a library initialization function, only needs to be called once as far as I understand
13:57<LordAro>oh, i totally agree
13:57<LordAro>i'm just stating why it is :p
13:57<_dp_>but, yeah, but openttd calls it for every font on every config parse that it does like 2 for each game and somehow it loads 2 games on startup
13:57<_dp_>.. or smth like that )
14:02<_dp_>... and don't even ask how I ended up in font cache while fixing network stuff :p
14:03<andythenorth>repro-ed this earlier
14:03<andythenorth>how is FIRS causing a crash?
14:03<andythenorth>(Auz industry is a FIRS fork)
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14:03<LordAro>this definitely means we get to blame you
14:04<frosch123>@blame andy
14:04<@DorpsGek>frosch123: blames andy
14:05<frosch123>i failed to make it say /me
14:09<andythenorth>can we close?
14:10<andythenorth>there are a few random crashes, but eh, it’s random
14:13<LordAro>magical osx crashes
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14:18<andythenorth>:o we have a readme?
14:18*andythenorth never saw it
14:18<frosch123>we constantly link it on the forums
14:19<frosch123>section 4.x contains the search paths
14:19*andythenorth reading it
14:19<andythenorth>how interesting
14:19<LordAro>it was suggested before, but decided that it wasn't worth the effort because of the systems where it is distributed as a gz file
14:22<_dp_>5694 looks like a perfectly valid bug. even if there is noone who can fix it atm it's not a valid reason to close it imo
14:22<andythenorth>I think OS X users paid the entry fee
14:23<andythenorth>Apple platforms have a limited lifespan
14:23<andythenorth>don’t like that, don’t use the platform
14:24*andythenorth didn’t just close it though, in case of other views :)
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14:40<andythenorth>Wolf01: vehicle movement tweaks? o_O
14:43<frosch123>there is a setting for trains, whether they can reverse at drive-through stops
14:45<frosch123>from a gameplay pov it's the same thing
14:45<andythenorth>RVs have to go looking for a road tile with the right bits on it
14:45<frosch123>though i guess people also complained about 90 degree being the same setting for trains and ships
14:45*andythenorth did :P
14:46<frosch123>andythenorth: you can force-reverse rv anywhere
14:46<andythenorth>‘turn around, turn around'
14:46<andythenorth>going looking for the road tile with a turnaround point is part of game?
14:46<andythenorth>obviously it is irl :P
14:47<andythenorth>speaking as the owner of a van, there are limited places that it is wise to turn
14:47<andythenorth>buses do not pull a u-turn in the street
14:47<andythenorth>but eh, realism :P
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14:52<andythenorth>620 FS tasks :)
14:53<frosch123>so 1/3 bugs?
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14:54<andythenorth>calc 620/167
14:54<andythenorth>@calc 620/167
14:54<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 3.7125748503
14:55<frosch123>did you close 50 bugs?
14:55<frosch123>i thought it were 200
14:55<andythenorth>I closed 200 or so tickets total in last week or so
14:56<frosch123>only :o i thought you closed like 500 :p
14:56<andythenorth>I requested closure on quite a few, where I might be being a jackass
14:56<andythenorth>I am somewhat trying to repro anything labelled ‘crash’
14:56<andythenorth>although that is very tedious :|
14:57<andythenorth>I am also gardening feature requests, but that is much harder
14:57<andythenorth>so many good / legit ones
15:03<andythenorth>supermop: sceptical? :)
15:04<andythenorth>or want to look through them?
15:04<andythenorth>broadly, they’re not getting implemented :)
15:04<andythenorth>unless we write a code-generating AI
15:04<andythenorth>370 of them
15:05<andythenorth>hmm, that opens on 3rd page, oops
15:05<supermop>just wondering what people want other than curvy tracks etc
15:06<andythenorth>most of those people don’t discover FS
15:06<andythenorth>there are lots of small detailed suggestions
15:06<supermop>train always goes to nearest depot huh
15:06<supermop>how the hell would that make sense
15:07<andythenorth>the request is inverse of title
15:07<andythenorth>request is not to go wandering off across the map
15:07<Wolf01><frosch123> i think wolf is using the ubuntu subsystem <- nah, is CLI only, I could run dedicated servers with that
15:07<andythenorth>I’ve fixed it a long time ago: disable breakdowns + servicing
15:07<Wolf01><peter1138> how do i dev on openttd? <- VS?
15:11<supermop>put depots in sensible places and trains wont wonder
15:11<supermop>what if the geographically nearest depot requires running to other side of map to get to?
15:11<andythenorth>supermop: feel free to comment :)
15:12<andythenorth>a more interesting search is feature requests with no comments/changes since 2012
15:13<andythenorth>oh this one’s good
15:13<andythenorth>it’s the fool’s errand of enforceable client-side security
15:14*andythenorth used to make games with high score tables that had real prizes
15:14<andythenorth>yeah, no
15:15<_dp_>supermop, putting depots on every possible intersection doesn't sound very sensible to me :p
15:16<_dp_>supermop, even without 90 degree turns
15:17<_dp_>or rather not intersection but any place where train has choice
15:17<_dp_>including stations, etc
15:19<andythenorth>servicing is a broken mechanic anyway :)
15:19<andythenorth>if we need to make it something you don’t have to think about, then just turn it off :P
15:19<andythenorth>solution already provided
15:19<supermop>yeah i never have it on
15:20<andythenorth>but eh, the fallacy is assuming only one play style :P
15:20<Wolf01>That MB guy is worse than a child
15:20<Wolf01>If he continues I'll get banned
15:20<Wolf01>I hate children
15:21<Wolf01>I hate real children even more
15:28<andythenorth>Michael never ever bothers me
15:28<andythenorth>except the DMCA takedown thing
15:28<andythenorth>that bothered me a lot
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>there was a dmca takedown thing?
15:33<frosch123>yes mb filed a dmca takedown against ottd because some teenager uploaded a newgrf of him to bananas
15:35<Wolf01>Against OTTD
15:35<frosch123>against one of the mirrors
15:37<frosch123>well, it wasn't a valid dmca
15:37<frosch123>for a dmca you have to give a grace period of 24 hours or something
15:37<supermop>3 track lines never really work in ottd
15:37<frosch123>he only gave 10
15:37<supermop>no real benifit over 2
15:38<supermop>a lot of older line in the US are 3 track, to handle rush hours, but even then, its not really idea
15:43<andythenorth>it’s the one thing that makes me devalue any comments from Michael about community
15:43<andythenorth>he is happy to identify other vandals, bullies etc, but it was the single biggest attempted piece of vandalism
15:44<andythenorth>that I am aware of
15:44<andythenorth>but other than that I enjoy his contributions :)
15:44<andythenorth>we can’t all agree eh?
15:48<andythenorth>close? Smatz indicates it’s solved
15:48<frosch123>if anything it belongs to the transparency gui rework
15:50<andythenorth>road eye candy grf spec :P
15:52<supermop>road candy
15:53<andythenorth>road candy is a great name :)
15:53<andythenorth>should be a new feature
15:53<andythenorth>or a grf, or AI, or GS :P
15:53*andythenorth renames Road Hog
15:53<supermop>damn it
15:53<supermop>my grf is still 'generic road vehicles'
15:58<andythenorth>is this a bug?
15:59<supermop>feature request: allow building arbitrarily many HQs
15:59<frosch123>nah, it's about moving by overbuilding
15:59<supermop>doesnt work for airports ,shouldn't work for hqs
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16:11<andythenorth>new scenario format? o_O
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what does the question have to do with the topic?
16:16<Wolf01>Alberth talked about that in tt-f
16:19<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: what’s the task about then? o_O
16:19<Wolf01>Removing industries and houses isn't a problem. The problem with George's suggestion is the town growth algorythm, towns grow roads too
16:19<Wolf01>andythenorth <- <Wolf01> Removing industries and houses
16:20<andythenorth>use new scenario format, ignore houses and industries
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: a simple loop that checks if owner=player => remove
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>no reason to have a new format for that
16:20<Wolf01>Nah, he just wants to celanup the landscape and restart placing things from scratch
16:20<Wolf01>What Eddi said
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but selectively
16:21<Wolf01>I wanted a "remove trees" feature too
16:21<Wolf01>I dynamite the whole map
16:22<Wolf01>Terrain doesn't change with dynamite, maybe some internal lakes
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16:30<Wolf01><frosch123> yes mb filed a dmca takedown against ottd because some teenager uploaded a newgrf of him to bananas <- AHAHHAHAH that was V XDDDDDD I just read about it
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16:31<frosch123>what? no
16:31<Wolf01> <- not this one?
16:32<Wolf01>So it happened more than once with fake DCMA requests
16:33<V453000>sac filed dmca on my dropbox cause I was distributing stolen trees from bananas with the original gplv2 license
16:34<V453000>if it was the same, idk
16:36<Wolf01>No, that was newships
16:36<_dp_>ok, I'm done with this one
16:36<_dp_>not fully happy but meh, it works
16:36<_dp_>openttd networking is a mess :/
16:37<andythenorth>a patch :)
16:37<supermop>hmm wolf's name looks somewhat similar to mine
16:37<supermop>want to trade places?
16:37<Wolf01>Nope, I like Europe more :P
16:37<Wolf01>Maybe if you were in Japan...
16:37<supermop>me too
16:37<supermop>i will be in two week
16:38<supermop>well first korea for a week then japan
16:38<Wolf01>BTW, they call you Wolf too?
16:39<supermop>no but i guess i could try to hype up a fake new nickname
16:41<Wolf01>It might conflicts with my alternate nickname, but I think that is Wolf03 and I don't know why it changes back to 03 every time I put 02
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16:56<LordAro>andythenorth: I AM OFFENDED
16:56<Wolf01>Me too, what did you do to offend LA?
16:56<andythenorth>thanks for letting me know :)
16:56<LordAro>good discussion
17:00<andythenorth>enjoyed it
17:00<Wolf01>BTW, reading that DCMA discussion I think I found a good list of the bullies SAC's was talking about
17:01<Wolf01>Too bad the only bullies there were those 2 people
17:03<andythenorth>old ground Wolf01 :)
17:03<andythenorth>been trodden many times
17:04<frosch123>LordAro: you have the only commit in how many weeks?
17:06<andythenorth>he’s even beating translators
17:06<LordAro>frosch123: you should fix that
17:07<andythenorth>commit my patch that fixes tropic TGP
17:07<andythenorth>or windowshade for station window
17:07<Wolf01>Commit NRT
17:07*LordAro reading through the DCMA thread
17:07*LordAro much popcorn
17:08<Wolf01>I can't understand why I missed that one, and wasn't even in my dark age
17:08<andythenorth>you didn’t miss much
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17:08<andythenorth>crap like that just drives people out
17:08<andythenorth>what shall I call my patchpack?
17:09<Wolf01>It's a nice comedy
17:09<andythenorth>‘probably broken'?
17:09<frosch123>does it have firs built-in and no option to change it?
17:10<andythenorth>that is a nice idea :)
17:10<frosch123>newgrf settings go directly to firs settings
17:10<andythenorth>but I read a blog post about micro-services distributed architecture once
17:10<Wolf01>Try with "my-vision-of-ottd"
17:10<andythenorth>so I like having multiple apps to maintain :P
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17:15<frosch123>82 unread mails :)
17:16<Wolf01>Andy worked a lot today :)
17:17<LordAro>FCVO work
17:18<LordAro>for certain values of
17:18<andythenorth>it takes a lot of effort justifying why to close stuff
17:18<andythenorth>but fortunately I automated it with copy-paste :P
17:19<andythenorth>600 issues open
17:19<andythenorth>really really hard to just close the remainder
17:19<andythenorth>unless we just nuke them
17:19<andythenorth>with no rationale other than ‘time for a clean up'
17:19<frosch123>i wonder how many you closed which were on my todo list
17:19<frosch123>not that that means any :p
17:21<andythenorth>write a comparison tool :)
17:24<andythenorth>ok bed :)
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17:25<_dp_>merge all patches and close issues :p
17:25<Wolf01>It would be utopic
17:28<Wolf01>You will find patches with "remove X" and "extend X", you could merge them so you first extend X and then remove it, which mean you can just close "extend X", or decide which one to merge, which mean you have to make a decision and close one of them... and you will come back at this same point :P
17:33<_dp_>let the strongest patch win!
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17:43<LordAro>mm, that was boringly depressing
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17:45<supermop>oh man this big interchange station has been too stations this whole time
17:46<supermop>now im not sure which to get rid of to combine with the other - both have timetabled trains and buses, and rich cdist links
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17:49<supermop>could connect them via a bus
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18:04<FLHerne_>Classic UK solution :P
18:05<FLHerne_>Perhaps OTTD needs pedestrian simulation
18:05<Wolf01>OTTD might need cargo walking
18:05<Wolf01>Or walking cargo
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like TF?
18:07<Wolf01>Too much realistic?
18:08<Wolf01>Also we need to fix catchement areas
18:09<Wolf01>The current approach is way too simple
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18:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, once you got proper walking, you don't need catchment areas anymore
18:15<Wolf01>You will need catchement areas to connect stations, houses and industries in a delimited area
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause>the concept of "catchment area" will be replaced by how far the people are willing to walk over the course of a journey
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause>(but that idea quickly falls apart when you consider that cargodist does not actually model a journey)
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18:26<supermop>hmm new branch works out to about 160 day round trip
18:26<supermop>as opposed to 150 on mainline
18:27<supermop>not sure i want the train sitting on its ass for 20 days to make it 180 and preserve 30 day cycle
18:28<supermop>might make the mainline sit 10 instead
18:28<Wolf01>Mmmh, you just made me thinka bout a new daylength patch
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18:28<supermop>then 1/4 of trains are mainline instead of 1/3
18:28<Wolf01>Change days to hours
18:29<Wolf01>Or even minutes
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18:29<supermop>rather 2/4 are mainline and 2/4 for branch, as opposed to 2/3 and 1/3
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>don't we have that patch already?
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>like 3 times?
18:30<supermop>maybe ill do mainline at 0 and 20, branch at 10, and mainline short turn at 30
18:30<supermop>Wolf01: i want a rush hour so i can have different service patterns
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18:32<Wolf01>Eddi: at least 4 where 2 are mine
18:32<Wolf01>I will make 3 mine
18:32<LordAro>i made a post on the forums
18:32<LordAro>first time in 2 years
18:33<Wolf01>The weird thing is to explain why some days have 30 hours, some 31 and one 28 or 29 :D
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18:58<Eddi|zuHause>daylight saving time
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20:28<_dp_>how did andy miss this one
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 16 00:00:15 2017