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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-09-20

---Logopened Wed Sep 20 00:00:04 2017
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02:49-!-twb is "Trent W. Buck" on #openttd #roundup #debian-au
02:49<twb>Hi, it's me again, the prison guy.
02:50<twb>I unpacked the DOOM basemusic (from bananas) into /usr, and now when a new user starts openttd, they get doom by default instead of openmsx
02:50<twb>What governs which gfx/sfx/msx is the default?
02:56<V453000>I need to give that a try someday
02:57<twb>I also noticed that doom was listed on banana's web UI but not on the in-game content manager
02:57<twb>which is weird
02:59<V453000>I see it from r27892
02:59<V453000>does it have any version requirements?
02:59<twb>V453000: oh maybe
02:59<twb>I didn't look very hard so I might have just screwed things up
02:59<twb>I mean: I might have looked wrong, and it *is* there, I'm just stupid
02:59<twb>When I delete DOOM music, the default music is Scott Joplin
03:00<V453000>well if you delete it of course there is some default
03:00<V453000>however that is defined, no clue
03:00<twb>is it just sorting alphabetically?
03:01<V453000>damn now I need to obtain also the old ttd music
03:01<V453000>I lost it somewhere
03:02<V453000>the doom music is awesome if you have a map where is a shitload of trains, fits to the insanity
03:02<V453000>in the startup screen it's a bit megamayhem XD need to change startup screen I guess
03:05<twb>This fixes things:
03:05<twb>root@alef:~# ln -s openmsx /usr/share/games/openttd/baseset/OpenMSX
03:05<twb>So it is probably just using the first one, sorted alphabetically in C locale
03:05<V453000>wow didn't take long to pirate original music :D cba searching on my disks
03:05<V453000>openmsx is trash I don't even download it
03:06<twb>Maybe but I don't want to change the default to doom or joplin in case it triggers a riot
03:08<V453000>well the default is noMusic
03:08<andythenorth>V453000 trains are ass
03:08<V453000>SICK STATEMENT
03:08<V453000>why andythenorth ?
03:08<V453000>trains wreck all shit
03:08<V453000>they best
03:08<andythenorth>my nice engine scheme falls apart when speeds get high
03:08<andythenorth>always problems when high
03:09<andythenorth>think problem is reality
03:09<twb> ← better than trains
03:09*andythenorth deletes reality
03:10<V453000>why would there be a problem just because of speedS?
03:10<V453000>poor acceleration?
03:10<V453000>wagon limit shit?
03:11<andythenorth>nah, two fast engines, one electric, one diesel
03:11<twb>Hey my dad said last week that if you use continuous welded rail, you don't need to ever re-weld using thermite because it's a single piece of track
03:11<andythenorth>V453000: reality has electric engine 155mph, diesel engine 125mph
03:11<twb>And I'm like "that's bullshit, if the track cracks dude to subsidence or something, you still have to reweld it"
03:12<twb>I don't suppose you guys know
03:12<andythenorth>no :)
03:12<twb>Ha- wikipedia says I'm right
03:12<twb>»Thermite welding is used to repair or splice together existing CWR segments.«
03:13<__ln__>but was his point that it won't crack at the point where it was welded earlier (any more likely than at any other point)
03:13<andythenorth>V453000: also wtf
03:13<__ln__>many points in that sentence
03:13<V453000>I don't get the problem andythenorth
03:13<twb>__ln__: yeah I grant that breaks are less common because fewer stress points &c
03:14<andythenorth>is BS problem V453000, I just remembered that me and Dan invented the 155mph engine
03:14<andythenorth>is not even realisms :P
03:14<andythenorth>such non-problem
03:15<andythenorth>schema must rule
03:15<andythenorth>problem solved
03:15<andythenorth>electric vs. non electric is challenge
03:16<andythenorth>should be about equsl
03:16<V453000>electric vs. non electric is just a change of one flag
03:16<V453000>nothing more
03:16<andythenorth>reason to build electric: Because Like The Sparks Animation
03:16<twb>you mean electric vs. diesel-electric?
03:16<andythenorth>not economics
03:16<V453000>yes andythenorth
03:16<twb>or like coal-fired steam shit like in northern china
03:16<andythenorth>all of the above twb :)
03:17<twb>coal-fire blows
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03:17<andythenorth>V453000: ok thanks, such many insights
03:17<andythenorth>and it’s not even 9am yet
03:17<andythenorth>winning day
03:19<V453000>I mean
03:19<V453000>if you can figure out a nice and sensible way how to make them differ, sure thing
03:19<V453000>one can have more power while other can have more T.E.
03:19<V453000>one can be faster or something
03:19<andythenorth>well yes
03:19<V453000>or you can just have them be an upgrade to diesels in each of the classes
03:20<andythenorth>and also eye candy
03:20<andythenorth>should I do maglev?
03:20<V453000>depends if you treat them as a train class or a generation
03:20<V453000>I think maglev is awesome, monorail just as much
03:20<andythenorth>I need some unrealism speeds after 2020 or so
03:20<V453000>if as a class then give them specific behaviours : )
03:20*andythenorth never plays past 1990 or so
03:21<V453000>I find making a set last 1950-2050 is like the minimum for full functionality
03:21<V453000>even vanilla does that
03:21<andythenorth>I go 1900-2000
03:21<V453000>so nuts has 1900 - 2100
03:21<andythenorth>fast trains, you just have to build a perfect network
03:21<andythenorth>no fucked up andythenorth junctions
03:21<V453000>depends on their power and TE :P
03:22<V453000>trains with giant TE simply don't give fucks
03:22<andythenorth>super-fast acceleration
03:23<andythenorth>tractive effort
03:23<andythenorth>so…dedicated railtype for super-fast train?
03:23<twb>oh like how much shit they can pull
03:24<V453000>more like how fast they accelerate at low speed, when translated to what it actually does
03:24*andythenorth must biab
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03:25<V453000>in my priimitive explanation I always say that T.E. matters in low speeds and power makes trains reach top speed faster
03:25<V453000>it's not perfectly accurate but from observation seems to be sufficient of an explanation for myself
03:25<twb>Hey, if you're curious, ttd is the 7th most popular game at the main prison:
03:26<V453000>like in an actual prison people play openttd?
03:26<V453000>fuck I am murdering people right now
03:26<twb>V453000: yes
03:27<V453000>I'm not sure if it's the best way how to re-socialize but trainz man
03:28<twb>If I limit to only games,
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03:29<twb>TBH I was surprised how popular it is
03:30<V453000>I'd expect GTA to be most popular in prison XD
03:30<twb>only FOSS games
03:31<__ln__>won't you get sued and put into prison for calling things "something-registered-trademark clone"?
03:31<V453000>__ln__: they are already in prison, can't put them anywhere :P
03:31<twb>Dunno, legal people said it was OK
03:31<twb>If we get a C&D we can easily change it
03:32<twb>It was just a lost clearer than all the wacky names that the underlying packages have
03:32<twb>especially KDE apps
03:32<__ln__>i can see that perspective, yes
03:33<twb>I forget that you guys probably have a bunch of windows users still — most places I hang out are like 60/40 linux/macos, with like 2 token windows users
03:33<V453000>is free to play FOSS?
03:33<twb>V453000: nope
03:33<V453000>was just curious :)
03:34<twb>V453000: it needs to meet either the Free Software Definition (from FSF) or the Debian Free Software Guidelines / Open Source Definition
03:35<twb>The technical reason why they do games on the computer instead of a separate console, is that prison staff can impose automatic curfews, and remove computer privileges, without having to physically go into the cell with a violent inmate
03:36<twb>If that means they can only get 90s-era games instead of like COD and GTA, they're like "meh whatever"
03:39<V453000>wait so they actually have a computer in the cell?
03:39<V453000>that's nuts
03:39<twb>how else would they study or talk to their lawyers and family
03:40<V453000>why am I not in prison
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04:10<andythenorth>so basically V453000, you’re saying I should do a full generation of trains in 2020?
04:10<andythenorth>and not just novelty BS?
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04:24<V453000>well what does a generation mean for you
04:24<V453000>for me generation is just "same kind of engine, but better in every way", with new graphics ofc
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04:33<V453000>there are probably more ways to do it, I just come from the approach in nuts which is trying to keep it simple
04:34<V453000>1 class, generations in the class for time progression
04:34<V453000>sure you can have hybrid trains which kind of belong to multiple classes but it will just become harder to make clear distinctions
04:35<V453000>doesn't mean it's wrong, especially if the train has valid uses in some cases in the game
04:37<andythenorth>classes are best
04:37<andythenorth>can I be arsed to do classes in 2020 though :P
04:37<andythenorth>or is 1990 end of Iron Horse progression? :P
04:38<V453000>well they are just easier to develop and easier to understand for the player, someone might be more interested in not having them written anywhere and having them not so obvious so that they can discover themselves but...
04:38<V453000>I believe true end should be at least 2050 to not be worse than vanilla :P
04:38<V453000>the frequency at which trains come out by the end of the game doesn't need to be too high though
04:38<V453000>just some 2 generations in 2000+ can easily be enough
04:39<andythenorth>if I go to 2020 on 30 year generations
04:39<andythenorth>then 2050 is reached
04:39<andythenorth>when does monorail come in default game?
04:39<V453000>in PART I plan to have generations every 20 years at the moment
04:39*andythenorth looks
04:39<V453000>2001 ish
04:39<V453000>monorail train is called X2001 :P
04:40<V453000>k :D
04:40<andythenorth>probably high-speed rail then
04:40<andythenorth>compatible with ELRL + power-changing BS?
04:40<andythenorth>or just own thing, no compatible?
04:40<V453000>power changing bs?
04:41<andythenorth>like HSPD can go on ELRL, but loses power
04:41<andythenorth>or some shit
04:41<andythenorth>and ELRL can go on HSPD, but blocks the route because it’s slow
04:42<V453000>well I really like to use monorail and maglev because you already have that in the base graphics and it gives more variety to the set, but it has one big drawback that you need to address - autoreplacing between track types ... you can just recommend univrail / purr I guess
04:42<V453000>I understand
04:42<twb>I just spent 20 minutes trying to work out why openttd was saying "file not writable"
04:42<V453000>it's not a horrible concept but if you don't have a big reason for it, I would guess it's just confusing
04:42<twb>$PWD was / rather than $HOME
04:42<andythenorth>are waypoints ass? I never use them
04:42<andythenorth>not sure how else to keep slow trains off the MOAR tracks
04:43<V453000>having vehicles adjust their max speed property based on railtype also allows for some high level mayhem that only 0.01% of people will ever use :P
04:43<twb>Hrm that's not the problem
04:43<V453000>waypoints are useful
04:43<twb>Guess I'll have to strace
04:43<V453000>but generally you should try to have all trains same speed
04:44<andythenorth>auto-replacing :P
04:45<andythenorth>such mess
04:45<V453000>it's important :)
04:46<V453000>Pikka's way of doing it in UKRS isn't stupid, making the maglev engines totally obscure lengths so that it makes no sense to autoreplace them, or you have to really prepare for it from earlier
04:46<V453000>but I don't like that solution because it means "ok now you built that network, now abandon it and build an extra reinforcing line"
04:46<V453000>while I think it's much more interesting to motivate you to fix your old shit and build on it
04:46<andythenorth>that is why I didn’t bother with this in Horse 1
04:47<andythenorth>also, types compatibility is ass
04:47<andythenorth>if HSPD can go on ELRL, ELRL can go on HSPD
04:47<andythenorth>because fuckwittedness
04:47<andythenorth>frosch wants to fix that stupidity
04:47<V453000>more sense to use monorail and/or maglev :P
04:49<andythenorth>I am more interested in drawing cute trains with cargos + random
04:49<andythenorth>than sorting out railtypes bollocks :P
04:50<V453000>well sure you can draw whole cute generation for a railtype :P
04:50<V453000>no messing and sorting out
04:51<andythenorth>high speed is planes, no? :P
04:51<andythenorth>but players have asked
04:52<V453000>some players on our servers don't even consider trains under 300km/h proper :P
04:52<V453000>it's just fun to see them go fast
04:52<V453000>also gives you the feeling of modern age
04:53<V453000>if the game is in 160-200kmh forever it's just stale and the same
04:53<V453000>my cap is around 500km/h, more is just dumb, 400km/h is fast as fuck, 300km/h is fast, 265km/h is slug-fast which is awesome
04:57<andythenorth>300km/h is also super-realism
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06:11<andythenorth>so probably not railtypes then
06:11<andythenorth>due to bollocks
06:11<andythenorth>just fast trains
06:19<@peter1138>Just make it go 65535km/h
06:20<andythenorth>how far does it move per tick?
06:20<@peter1138>Use callbacks to actually limit it to a proper speed.
06:20<@peter1138>That'll confuse no-one.
06:20*andythenorth now trying a silly fast train
06:21<andythenorth>9000 is too large
06:22<@peter1138>Doesn't move?
06:24<andythenorth>nml won’t accept it
06:24<andythenorth>action 0 property too large
06:25<andythenorth>won’t accept any value > 200
06:28<andythenorth>hmm lies
06:33<V453000>the fuck
06:34<V453000>do you give it units?
06:34<V453000>I didn't
06:34<V453000>also I know that callbacks can give more values
06:35<V453000>but not sure if it relates to speed
06:36<andythenorth>no units :|
06:36<andythenorth>seems I ran into this before
06:36<andythenorth>my code sets a warning if the speed is too high
06:36<andythenorth>some bollocks
06:54<V453000>wtf XD
06:54<V453000>try disabling the REALISTIC_SPEEDS flag
07:14<V453000>hm, haz moar plan
07:14<V453000>ideas, gg
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07:52<andythenorth>hi Wolf01
08:03<Wolf01> huhuhuhu
08:04<Wolf01>I should do an app for this
08:05<Wolf01>Mmmh maybe with autohotkey
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08:33<@peter1138>Why is it so slow?
08:33<@peter1138>Is it raytracing?
08:35<Wolf01> also this, is already done
08:35<Wolf01>But uses its own render
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09:36<crem>Indeed, yo.
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11:14<andythenorth>lo Alberth
11:15<supermop>yo again
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11:31<Wolf01> true
11:31<Wolf01>Also pub and out for dinner, BBL
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13:01<Eddi|zuHause>i have an unusually long usb cable
13:02<frosch123>diameter is more important than length
13:05<andythenorth>so how fast should trains go?
13:05<frosch123>should there be a limit?
13:08<frosch123>anyway, for cargo gameplay behaviour, the increase of speed*capacity should match the increase of industry output
13:08<frosch123>or you need to sell trains after upgrading
13:09<frosch123>(and yes, that is not easy to answer for firs :p)
13:11<andythenorth>FIRS is silly
13:11<andythenorth>we need that ‘go to depot and sell’ thing
13:11<andythenorth>also consist management :P
13:12<frosch123>i went the lazy route and use overflow depots
13:13<andythenorth>I use an order though, not the force-depot track layout
13:14<frosch123>is use the force-depot directly in front of the station
13:14<frosch123>all trains go the the depot and wait there until a platform is free
13:14<frosch123>laziest setup of all :)
13:14<frosch123>using the complete vertical storage space of depots
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13:21<V453000>haha "P
13:21<V453000>it's like saying automating in factorio is lazy
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13:23<frosch123>isn't that what the achievements communicate?
13:24<frosch123>also, i want a cogwheel shaped wheelchair
13:24<frosch123>no, not wheelchair, the other thing
13:24<frosch123>rocking chair
13:24<frosch123>cogwheel shaped rocking chair :)
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: also add a "clone this train if it's full" order
13:30<andythenorth>might as well add UI scripting eh :)
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>1: goto A, 2: clone train, 3: goto B, 4: sell train
13:31<frosch123>good point, that also solves the train replacement
13:31<frosch123>you only have to adjust a single train
13:31<frosch123>and the older ones will phase out on their own
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14:33<andythenorth>supermop_home: name some trains :P
14:34*andythenorth is lacking inspiration for Brit roster for 1990 onwards
14:34<andythenorth>1) I never play this late
14:34<andythenorth>2) it exactly co-incides with my teenage train obsession
14:34<andythenorth>so I know too much realism
14:46<@planetmaker>good evening :)
14:47<frosch123>hoi, any new planets?
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14:50<@planetmaker>yeah... some
14:50<@planetmaker>I was actually busy to erode planets :D
14:50<supermop>i spent liek 8+ hours trying to erode a map in the SE this past weekend
14:51<@planetmaker>my eroded micro-planets: :p
14:54<frosch123>is that a mm scale on the right?
14:55<andythenorth>supermop you have a question from me…at home :P
14:56<supermop>i don't know if that computer is on?
14:56<supermop>supermop_home: oh maybe it is
14:56<supermop>well this one was asleep so i didn't see it
14:58<@planetmaker>jo, mm-scale
14:59<@planetmaker>but I was only doing it for this: :P
15:00<frosch123>did you fly 542 times with that plane?
15:02<supermop>andythenorth: similar, 90s is not enough locomotives, and all of them i've actually seen
15:03<@planetmaker>31 parabols per flight. So that was awarded after 17 flights
15:03<@planetmaker>but that's the sum over the last 17 years or so
15:03<supermop>how many more until you get a free flight?
15:04<@planetmaker>they were all free ... I was paid ;)
15:04<frosch123>31 sounds like they avoided 42
15:04<@planetmaker>reasoning is: 30 parabols. Plus a 0th for getting used-to
15:05<@Alberth>17 flights is more mysterious :p
15:05<supermop>also why not give the award for 500
15:05<frosch123>ah, you throw up on the first one, and then you can get out the technical stuff which should stay clean :)
15:05<@Alberth>I mean, it's not a natural number to give anything
15:05<@planetmaker>it's now 18 flights ;)
15:06<@planetmaker>but depends on amount of team members of how many flights per campaign there are per person
15:06<supermop>so if you are flying on a parabolic trajectory, how many miles do you earn?
15:07<@Alberth>I hope you're not starting to wonder why a commercial airplane never seems to be starting the 'normal' parabole flight pattern :p
15:07<@planetmaker>hm... 2 miles up, 2 miles down. And 1 minute flight at ~600 mph.
15:07<V453000>I feel like I don't understand a word but I feel the urge to congratulate pm! :D
15:07<supermop>the length of the parabola, or the straight line distance projected on earth?
15:07<supermop>V453000: zero gravity
15:07<@Alberth>17 x 31 times :)
15:08<frosch123>V453000: tl;dr; pm gets paid for testing fun parks
15:08<@planetmaker> <-- last flight route
15:09<V453000>so you fly an airplane up and down to get zero gravity state? :D like rollercoaster? :D
15:09<frosch123>like a rollercoaster with a 2miles downhill
15:09<V453000>the flight chart of altitude suggests that XD
15:10<@Alberth>rollercoaster doesn't quite reach zero gravity
15:10<V453000>that's utterly awesome
15:10<V453000>yeah blabla Alberth :P
15:10<@Alberth>those chair lifts that fall down do, though
15:10<@planetmaker>V453000, yeah, exactly taht
15:10<V453000>that's sick pm :D
15:10<frosch123>"sick" :p
15:10<V453000>may I ask what kind of research is it for? :P
15:10<@planetmaker>only if you easily get motion-sickness. Otherwise it's great fun :)
15:10<V453000>I think I am quite resistant to that
15:11<@planetmaker>V453000, I'm not joking with my nickname :) Planet making or formation is what I'm getting paid for ;)
15:11<V453000>well that I know
15:11<V453000>oh so are you simulating space environment by that?
15:12<@planetmaker>yeah, the start of planet formation happens in the absence of big gravity :)
15:12<V453000>:0 cool
15:13<@planetmaker>the sick thing is: their promotional video is from my previous campaign...
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15:19<V453000>damn that's awesome
15:19<V453000>so you are the pilot or one of the scientists on board? or both? XD
15:22<@planetmaker>lol, pilot? No
15:22<@planetmaker>I'm just one of the science guys floating several times through the images
15:22<V453000>in english "flying airplanes" is a confusing term :P
15:22<V453000>hm I didn't notice you
15:24*andythenorth tries to spot PM
15:25<V453000>FOUND HIM :>
15:25<andythenorth>I thought I saw him in a seat
15:26<V453000>he's definitely investigating the hell out of that mysterious box in 4:42 right :)
15:26<@Rubidium>andythenorth: you mean at 1:31?
15:27<andythenorth>was that PM?
15:27<V453000>the window seat?
15:27*andythenorth has only seen one picture of most ottd people
15:27<V453000>andythenorth: saddest part is that I saw him at least twice in person XD
15:28<V453000>memory is a bitch
15:28<andythenorth>such meetups
15:28<@planetmaker>1:29, 1:51, 2:10, 2:22, 2:25, 4:41, 4:51
15:29<@planetmaker>or roughly
15:29<@planetmaker>so... what's new here?
15:29<V453000>=D nice
15:29<V453000>andythenorth is wrecking hs newgrfs every day, nothing new
15:29<V453000>I'm finishing BRIX and planning next train set
15:29<V453000>no drama anywhere :(
15:30<@planetmaker>no cats? Or slugs set free accidentially and on rampage?
15:30<V453000>no cats
15:30<andythenorth>drama such forums V453000
15:30<andythenorth>but really low grade
15:30<V453000>can't confirm no slugs
15:34<Wolf01>I have 3 hours before sleepflix, what could I do?
15:34<frosch123>sports :p
15:34<andythenorth>watch this video
15:34<@Rubidium>plan a vacation?
15:34<andythenorth>Wolf01: 5km on exercise bike
15:34<Wolf01>Oh god, they built it
15:35<andythenorth>it’s a great video
15:35<ic111>Wolf01 - If I get right you wanted to show me something?
15:35<Wolf01>Oh, yes
15:35<V453000>andythenorth: it won't get an video-of-the-evening award but it's still awesome
15:35<ic111>(happily, after about 4 days, my internet provider brought back service...)
15:37<Wolf01>Wow, great video indeed
15:37<V453000>and I'm sitting here making dumb ass trees for a 90s game :P
15:39<Wolf01>I'm aiming to something like this:
15:42<supermop>ok so why does the first little rover have to go up on deck to drop off it's cargo
15:42<supermop>looks like something from Dune
15:42<Wolf01>deserts od karak
15:42<supermop>or what i imagined dune looking like when i read it
15:42<ic111>Ah, so a rewrite of the map generator GUI?
15:42<supermop>i never played the game or saw any of the films
15:43<Wolf01>I played with dune before reading the books, so I had few things left to immagination
15:43<ic111>I extended that one in my rivers patch
15:43<ic111>The rainfall river generator patch contains an additional option to choose the river generator, and a setting dialog to configure the generator settings
15:44<Wolf01>ic111: yes, but I didn't use the classic "put everything on one window and remove what it's not really needed and move it to settings"
15:44<ic111>Yes, you group the settings in something like tabs
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15:44<Wolf01>Actually they are tabs
15:45<ic111>Yes, they are (had the appearance of browser tabs in mind when I wrote "something like")
15:46<ic111>I just start thinking - where would I place my river settings in that concept?
15:47<Wolf01>I'd say on gameplay, as rivers alter the gameplay, not the map creation
15:48<ic111>Hm, my first thought was "map, as rivers are part of the map"
15:48<ic111>But you are right, everything in that dialog is related to the map
15:48<andythenorth>planetmaker: don’t you to use tricks to build the seaplane airport?
15:48<andythenorth>with canal or so?
15:49<Wolf01>"Map" should be "general", you have the most common changed settings for generation
15:49<ic111>What I meant is especially: I have one additional dropdown for choosing the generator - but then a couple of generator settings that are currently in a separate dialog
15:49<ic111>So, either one would need a button under "Gameplay" to access that dialog, or an additional tab - which might interfere with overall design of that window...
15:50<ic111>Especially, as my dialog is wider than one column of widgets
15:51<Wolf01>The window I made is really small compared to the old one
15:51<Wolf01>So I think there's some margin of expansion
15:52<ic111>See here (page 16) for a screenshot of my generator GUI changes (some small changes occured lateron, but the concept stayed the same)
15:53*andythenorth needs art
15:54<Wolf01>Yes, could have a tab on its own or a button on the gameplay tab
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15:55<ic111>Anyway, probably the timetable patch consumes enough of my time at the moment ;-)
15:56<Wolf01>Oh, mine was just a demo to show you that you can change the old approach to create UIs, they don't need to be a static rectangle filled with widgets ;)
15:56<Wolf01>The SELECTION widget is really powerful, it only needs to be handled carefully
15:58<ic111>Though I learned quite a lot about the limits of the OpenTTD GUI engine when I designed that river configuration window
15:58<ic111>(maybe also about my limits to understand it...)
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16:05<ic111>Current screenshot of the adjusted timetable window is now here:
16:05<V453000>hmm, ALL 4 climates are wrong in my "tree sprite ID table" :D
16:07<andythenorth>ok such
16:07<andythenorth>need advice / ideas
16:07<andythenorth>?? need deciding
16:07<andythenorth>or don’t continue to 2020
16:08<V453000>continue to 2020
16:08<andythenorth>realism says 125mph, then 186mph, but only special train on special railtype
16:08<V453000>90 - 125 - 125?
16:08<andythenorth>or 90, 140, 186 or so
16:08<V453000>sure why not
16:08<V453000>no need for special railtype
16:08<andythenorth>railtype bollocks boggles my brain
16:09<andythenorth>scrap railtype
16:09<V453000>mono and mglv is cute
16:09<andythenorth>did anyone make a decent mglv grf?
16:09<V453000>but if you don't like it then it's not just pure benefit, has some downside
16:09<V453000>andythenorth: nuts? :P
16:09<V453000>other than that not really
16:09<andythenorth>ok fine, add NUTs with Horse
16:09<andythenorth>Horse Nuts
16:10<andythenorth>up to 1990 horse is ‘engine’ and ‘pax cars’ and ‘mail cars'
16:11<andythenorth>switch to some unit thing?
16:11<V453000>you can always have it look like an unit :)
16:11<andythenorth>problem is, I don’t really care :)
16:11<andythenorth>never goes well
16:11<V453000>well in that case it's clear XD
16:11<andythenorth>was useful having a DanMacK
16:11<andythenorth>to do some caring
16:11<V453000>I really like passenger trains looking like units
16:12<andythenorth>outsource caring, I just code and draw
16:12<V453000>all passenger class trains in nuts do that
16:12<V453000>shitload of switches for graphics
16:12<andythenorth>do you use two-headed train thing?
16:12<andythenorth>cabooses are two-headed
16:12<V453000>yes often
16:14<V453000>generally for passenger trains yeah
16:14<V453000>not really much for freight
16:14<andythenorth>could mess with dates, add whole new class of trains, two-headed
16:14<V453000>except mono, mglv and slugs
16:14<andythenorth>introduce 1980 or so, mess up nice order
16:15<V453000>I really like double headed trains, makes trains reverse nicely in dead end stations :OP
16:18<frosch123>andythenorth: you can have early engines which are really fast, but too weak to reach topspeed with more than 2 wagons
16:19<V453000>I would imagine the express freight to do that yeah
16:19<andythenorth>100mph in 1860
16:19<andythenorth>what is most eye candy things
16:19<andythenorth>after 1990?
16:20*andythenorth could just do 1860-1960 :P
16:20<andythenorth>still 100 years, right?
16:20<frosch123>generally, the train front
16:20<Wolf01> does it really need all those pantographs?
16:20<frosch123>tgv and ice look very similar, shinkansen looks really different
16:22<andythenorth>Wolf01: is to keep contact in poor weather
16:22<andythenorth>also that station is notorious for people taking pictures with part of station name obscured by train
16:22<andythenorth>rude words :P
16:23<supermop>frosch123: tgv and the first ice have locomotives
16:23<supermop>shinkansen was emu from the start
16:23<andythenorth>wow some ugly new train
16:24<Wolf01>I always thought the pantographs were linked so you raise the right one based on the direction you need to go
16:24<frosch123>supermop: shinkansen is extremely long in the front
16:24<supermop>that's new since 97/00 ish
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16:24<supermop>before they were more bullnosed
16:25<supermop>to reduce shock in tunnels
16:25<frosch123> <- while these two are very similar
16:25<FLHerne>Wolf01: Woodhead was 1500V DC
16:26<FLHerne>Wolf01: So considerably higher-current than the 25kV things you get now
16:26<FLHerne>If you just had one pantograph, you'd probably be melting the wire over the contact point
16:26<FLHerne>Er, no, that makes no sense
16:26<frosch123> <- only nuts has engines in that shape
16:27<frosch123>and possibly some actual shinkansen set
16:27<FLHerne>Oh, maybe it does
16:28<supermop>frosch123: that's a JR maglev
16:28<V453000>nuts doesn't really use that shape I think
16:28<V453000>something similarly fucked up, probably yes
16:28<supermop>n700 sets are somewhat similar, just less extreme
16:29<FLHerne>andythenorth: You could have a 365 also , and have a single pax/mail-refittable unit?
16:29<andythenorth>I could yes
16:29<supermop>i would argue that tgv is quite different from the ice, not just for having a locomotive, but because of the way the 'sides' of the front roll off
16:29<FLHerne>(inb4 someone gets pedantic and insists that 325s are really more like 319s underneath)
16:30<andythenorth>FLHerne: there is the tin rocket thing from 1998 currently, 100mph, pax, express freight
16:30<andythenorth>looks like a sprinter
16:30<andythenorth>not convinced by it
16:30<andythenorth>100mph is not a speed point
16:30<andythenorth>in new Horse
16:31<andythenorth>1990, 90mph probably
16:31<andythenorth>then 2020: bi-mode??, ??? mph
16:31<frosch123>V453000: hmm, i thought there were more engines which looked like mono-fast-endgame
16:31<frosch123>no idea what i remembered
16:31<V453000>some of the early version might have more wtf shapes actually
16:32*andythenorth has forgotten
16:33<andythenorth>why is it total kitten-killing to have engines carry mail?
16:33<frosch123>andythenorth: make a japanese roaster, the engines look way more interesting
16:33<FLHerne>andythenorth: Because it causes stations to start providing mail
16:33<V453000>if they can't carry passengers, then it makes stations provide mail
16:33<FLHerne>andythenorth: While not providing any real mail capacity
16:33<V453000>yeah that
16:33<andythenorth>frosch123: once I have a schema :P
16:33<FLHerne>So then it forces you to build a mail network, which can be annoying if you didn't really want to
16:33<andythenorth>Africa roster is 50% done already, and had more schema, I am ret-conning now
16:33<andythenorth>Japan roster is valid
16:34*FLHerne does anyway usually, so doesn't care
16:34<andythenorth>so, something like HST with mail on engines, no no no
16:34<andythenorth>means fast mail car needed then
16:35<andythenorth>which means fast express freight also
16:35<andythenorth>dunno 180mph food seems daft
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16:36<V453000>13 tropic trees, 2 cacti, 3 more tropic trees
16:36<V453000>in that order
16:36<V453000>the fuck :D
16:36<andythenorth>just make sure they are integer heights
16:37<supermop>i wrote out a japan roster
16:37<andythenorth>was it real, or made up?
16:37<V453000>I really hate "this country" newgrf at this point
16:37<V453000>my 2c :D
16:38<andythenorth>V453000: you shock me :)
16:39<andythenorth>FLHerne: seems legit
16:42<FLHerne>(hasn't actually happened yet)
16:45<frosch123>V453000: do you prefert 2cc's "every country"? :p
16:49<andythenorth>how fast then?
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16:55<Wolf01>andythenorth: any advice on the size of the locomotives? In cubes maybe
16:56<andythenorth>they’re 8 wide?
16:56<Wolf01>I noticed that they get really weird if I need to keep space for pantograph
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17:00<Wolf01>Also I whink I'll switch to voxelshop
17:00<Wolf01>Supports textures and skeletal animation
17:01<Wolf01>Meh, java
17:02<Wolf01>Wow, I can import a square palette
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17:06<Wolf01>Ok, nice but too much powerful for what I'm doing
17:08<andythenorth>8 wide, probably 40 long
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17:44<andythenorth>integer length? o_O
17:45<Wolf01>Should be 1 tile long
17:46<Wolf01>Articulated (2 parts), I want to do a 1 tile long (or more) in 3 parts
17:46<andythenorth>going to 2050 is daft :P
17:47<andythenorth>just ends up with multiple daft OP, super-fast units
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17:51<Wolf01>I think for the 3 part one I'll stick to the crocodile design :/
17:52<Wolf01>Even if I wanted to do this one, but more modern design:
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17:53<andythenorth>I like those chunky electric trains
17:53*andythenorth wants to do a roster of those
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17:56<Wolf01> mmmh
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18:29<Wolf01> heavy breathing... 2 tile long articulated engine
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18:44<@peter1138>Scale is wrong on that mod, though :(
18:44<Wolf01>Like there was something right in minecraft :(
18:44<Wolf01>*like if
18:45<Wolf01>I think MC and TT can compete with the scale problems
18:45<Wolf01> V453000!
18:46<@peter1138>There's a different mod that gives a better scale, iirc.
18:47<@peter1138>Hmm, no, I was imagining it.
18:51<Wolf01>Maybe I could make a rooster of the most strangest locomotives I find, like the big boy cab forward, the "half locomotive", the 4-units articulated, some weird steam prototypes and some huge gas turbine electric locomotives
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