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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-09-29

---Logopened Fri Sep 29 00:00:17 2017
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04:11*andythenorth automating
04:17<V453000>what are you automating?
04:18<andythenorth>train graphics processing
04:18<andythenorth>auto cargos
04:18<V453000>you know you could just...
04:18<V453000>use a 3D program
04:18<andythenorth>is not pixels :P
04:19<V453000>iz true
04:19<andythenorth>I could just…draw them
04:19<andythenorth>like NUTS
04:19<V453000>what is NUTS
04:19<andythenorth>iz trains
04:20<andythenorth>should try
04:21<V453000>fuck I need to throw shit away from my table
04:21<V453000>can't fit stuff for shit
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04:28<V453000>k threw away 1 monitor, 1 keyboard, 1 mouse, 1 tea cup, minor amount of random shit :D so much better
04:28<V453000>so I'm tryinng this NUTS thing
04:28<Eddi|zuHause>how crazy
04:28<andythenorth>try NUTS 2
04:29<V453000>it looks mediocre, some of the trains looks awesome, some of them less, but I was trying to build some train and it keeps screaming at me "can't connect this wagon"
04:29<V453000>should I read the text at the purchase menu?
04:29<andythenorth>why would anybody read that?
04:29<V453000>also how do I tell which train is for what?
04:29<andythenorth>just use cabeese
04:29<V453000>well some of trains even change colours as they go
04:29<V453000>does it mean they are for everything?
04:30<V453000>also why do some trains look like gastropods
04:30<Eddi|zuHause>because arthropods would have been scarier?
04:31<V453000>nah I think they would just not work very well with long train shapes
04:31<V453000>but still
04:31<V453000>there's even an engine which looks like cat
04:31<V453000>or that one has hair and ALL the rainbow colours ... is it for everything again?
04:31<V453000>and why on earth do my rails look like a piece of river or canal
04:32<V453000>is there some tutorial?
04:32<Eddi|zuHause>does it sing nyanyanyan?
04:32<V453000>no it seems like some stupid fat ass black cat, not even the nyan thing
04:35<V453000>where do I find NUTS 2?
04:35<V453000>it can't get any worse than this
04:39<andythenorth>NUTS 2 is not done yet
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04:42<V453000>well I guess it's for the better that the author just stops
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06:20<andythenorth>V453000: now what?
06:21<andythenorth>automated all the graphics
06:22<andythenorth>should probably wreck FIRS now
06:23<andythenorth>hmm no
06:23<andythenorth>way too full of snot to make good decisions
06:28<andythenorth>YT YIME
06:28<andythenorth>time *
07:00<andythenorth>4% battery :(
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07:36<andythenorth>V453000: fuck
07:39<andythenorth>wagon recolouring
07:39<andythenorth>probably rules
07:39<V453000>what's wrong with it
07:39<andythenorth>specially if I do it wrong
07:40<V453000>wtf :D
07:41<andythenorth>do it for some cargos only
07:41<andythenorth>others get CC
07:42<V453000>well you could have the CC in a different layer you know :P
07:43<V453000>iz probably what I'm going to do, if I don't just straight up ignore CC in wagons
07:43<andythenorth>CC is mandatory
07:43<andythenorth>or not
07:43<V453000>I will have it only on the engine
07:44<V453000>on wagons it's nice to see but mandatory? eh
07:44<V453000>I prefer to have a colour which tells which cargo the wagon can carry
07:44<V453000>but that's just my current concept, no rule
07:47<andythenorth>maybe I do same for more types
07:48<andythenorth>it’s almost zero effort, I just have to draw in purple not blue :P
07:48<andythenorth>and bollocks with defining recolour maps
07:51<V453000>the gray ring looks kind of weird
07:51<V453000>not as shaded as the tank
07:52<V453000>well defining recolour maps isn't that horrible
07:52<V453000>and you can reuse it for all wagons
07:53<andythenorth>gray ring is ladder, might be bollocks
07:53<andythenorth>probably delete
07:54<V453000>well a ladder would still be influenced by light in some way
07:54*andythenorth must now to automation
07:54<andythenorth>even more complicated pipeline :P
07:54<V453000>and I would use more of a |||||||| texture for a ladder
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08:30<andythenorth>no code needed
08:30<andythenorth>just add more colours to remap
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09:46<supermop_>andythenorth: how many liveries too many?
09:47<andythenorth>can haz awesome
09:47<andythenorth>but I like CC, so I’m not doing it for all
09:47<supermop_>and should i break all my templates to make the z 8/8?
09:47<andythenorth>supermop_: ?
09:48<V453000>recolouring is great, but I am really missing the noise
09:48<V453000>this reminds me of 2cc set
09:48<supermop_>wheels fit better on 8/8
09:49<supermop_>and real zs were stupidly long compared to what came before and after
09:49<andythenorth>V453000: noise later
09:49<andythenorth>also I frigging hate noise :)
09:49<andythenorth>but I’ll add some
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09:49<andythenorth>supermop_: you used 28px templates? o_O
09:50<supermop_>big mistake i realized only when starting trams
09:50<supermop_>ogfx+rvs are all 7/8
09:51<andythenorth>probably original style
09:52<V453000>8/8 or auschwitz
09:52<supermop_>rigid trucks look best short
09:52<andythenorth>V453000 went to godwin already
09:52<andythenorth>and it’s not even 3pm
09:52<supermop_>not even 10 am
09:53<supermop_>messed up mytemplates, PS slices, etc
09:54<supermop_>can fix, just can't be arsed for 1 tram
09:54<supermop_>nothing else in the set is 8/8
09:54<andythenorth>not totally convinced by body recolouring
09:55<andythenorth>but eh
09:55<andythenorth>pressing on
09:59<andythenorth>body colour has to contrast with cargo colour
09:59<andythenorth>unlike tankers, which use cargo colour for body
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10:00<supermop_>wife and other non-openttd people voted in favor of the long tram as being more melbourney
10:01<supermop_>i feel like i am disregarding my arbitrary rules too much, whereas andy is following his too closely
10:03<andythenorth>so body colouring - parameter to turn it off or what?
10:15<supermop_>i see a lot of essentially black coal hoppers in the midwest
10:15<supermop_>and i have seen plenty of of photos of maroon iron ore hoppers
10:16<andythenorth>RL they tend to colour the body to match the cargo
10:16<andythenorth>so that overspill is less visible
10:16<supermop_>stays cleaners looking
10:16<andythenorth>we need the inverse :)
10:16<supermop_>i mean are you designing this strictly from a high contrast accessibility standpoint?
10:17<supermop_>ADA doesn't apply to video games
10:17<andythenorth>so far :P
10:18<andythenorth>needs to be obvious if wagon is loaded or empty ;)
10:18<andythenorth>also V453000 has a scheme
10:19<andythenorth>how about patches of colour on the body?
10:19<andythenorth>rather than colouring all of it?
10:19<supermop_>i like that
10:19<supermop_>like a little placard
10:19<andythenorth>only works if the wagon is big enough
10:20<supermop_>one extra length unit in | ... 1 or 2 px?
10:21<supermop_>i generally have 1.5px per 1/8 in |
10:21*andythenorth tries it
10:22<andythenorth>supermop_: for length in | , just half the length of –
10:22<andythenorth>measuring along the roof
10:22<andythenorth>then add ~8 for body height
10:22<andythenorth>depends on how high vehicle is :)
10:22<supermop_>im a little off that - my 7/8 are 13 px long |
10:23<supermop_>16px | would be a huge leap
10:24<supermop_>not sure how i ended up with 4px -> 1.5ishpx instead of 2
10:24<supermop_>i think i was shortening trams so the pole would stick out past them when down
10:25<andythenorth>| view is rarely seen for RVs
10:25<andythenorth>I wouldn’t worry about it
10:25<supermop_>like they all start 1px below the top of blue box
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10:25<supermop_>if i don't have to increase | blue, i can keep my PS slices
10:26<andythenorth>hmm, colour chip looks nice
10:26<andythenorth>but eh
10:26<supermop_>so i'll make the Z 15px|
10:26<supermop_>do it
10:26<supermop_>original coal wagons had CC square
10:26<@Alberth>make it so :p
10:29<andythenorth>doing it
10:31<andythenorth>supermop_: could put a railfreight sector logo on the engines :P
10:31<andythenorth>depending on refit
10:31<andythenorth>maybe not eh?
10:31<supermop_>all i've ever wanted
10:31<supermop_>generic locomotive livery based on wagons, rather than wagon livery based on locomotive
10:32<supermop_>sector emblems are a coup of british signage design
10:32<supermop_>and BR was already better at signage and graphics than most other things
10:33<andythenorth>strictly, I could do engine recolour based on cargo too :P
10:34<andythenorth>it’s probably not even much work :(
10:34<andythenorth>probably ruins multiplayer eh
10:34<supermop_>you could make the sector emblem 2cc
10:34<supermop_>grey locomotives with CC squares seems appropriate
10:35<supermop_>also this always looked so sharp:
10:38<V453000>iz friday
10:38<V453000>iz facts
10:38<supermop_> i always wondered if the Large logo one was preserved or what, shouldn't it have had a sectorized livery?
10:38<supermop_>did anything else ever get grey large logo?
10:38<V453000>andythenorth: parts being colourful is obviously making it look less like a retarded rail-bound chameleoparrot
10:38<V453000>so y
10:51<andythenorth>supermop_: recolour to this? :P
10:51<supermop_>from the HST ad?
10:51<andythenorth>never saw it, but yes
10:52<supermop_>ive seen it on youtube
10:52<supermop_>scene with a bunch of 43s stuck in traffic was nice
10:55<andythenorth>I messed up the hoppers a bit to please V453000
10:55<andythenorth>but they look like a blob now :)
10:59<supermop_>motion graphics at the end of that with the trains making the br logo look impressive for the time
11:02<andythenorth>so cargo-recolouring body
11:02<andythenorth>in or out?
11:03<andythenorth>it’s 50% working
11:03<andythenorth>same amount of work to finish, or remove :P
11:03<supermop_>so apparently that was filmed with all real trains
11:03<andythenorth>seems so
11:03<supermop_>did they just pull all the 43s out of service to be in that shoot for a day?
11:05<andythenorth>seems like it
11:14<andythenorth>I do kind of like the plain CC for wagons
11:16<supermop_>maybe i'll have a large logo easter egg tram
11:17<andythenorth>Alberth: any opinion? :P
11:21<@Alberth>desperately needs playing!
11:22<@Alberth>no steam, I see
11:22<@Alberth>needs longer game thus :)
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11:23<@Alberth>but I like it, good colours of the wagons
11:24<@Alberth>engines are more round :)
11:25<andythenorth>I don’t like the wagon colours, I find it confusing :)
11:25<@Alberth>quite modern looking to me
11:26<@Alberth>engines seem somewhat out of place, you'd expect them to be more rectangular, looking at the wagons
11:27<@Alberth>but perhaps it's just that wagons have no top that you can colour
11:28<andythenorth>for reasons I can’t explain, I prefer CC
11:28<andythenorth>except for tank wagons :P
11:29<@Alberth>CC is company colours?
11:29<@Alberth>if so, why do you have differently coloured wagons?
11:29<andythenorth>per cargo
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11:29<@Alberth>like nuts has unique colours too
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11:30<andythenorth>but I already use white, grey etc to theme some kinds of wagon permanently
11:30<andythenorth>and that is lost if other wagons recolour
11:31<@Alberth>per cargo doesn't help much in diversity at a single track
11:32<@Alberth>you'd need to do random or based on age or so
11:32<@Alberth>wagons do look more matching with the engines with CC though
11:33<@Alberth>without CC it's a bit two different sets
11:33<@Alberth>ie engine set and wagon set
11:34<@Alberth>but it gives you more colours for the wagons
11:35<@Alberth>ie the CC set really matches with each other, but all wagons are the same blue
11:35<@Alberth>(modulo a few lighter/darker variations)
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11:40<andythenorth>+1 to all
11:40<andythenorth>I already recolour tankers, I’ll keep that
11:41<andythenorth>and maybe box cars should recolour :P
11:41<andythenorth>anything where cargo doesn’t show
11:43<@Alberth>maybe make CC a bit more subtle, eg a CC logo-like area?
11:43<@Alberth>ie somewhat partly blue
11:44<@Alberth>although I'd pick the non-CC set now
11:46<@Alberth>I like the modern style
11:46<@Alberth>perhaps because it's not common in openttd
11:48<andythenorth>there might be other ways to get same affect, without recolouring wagons per cargo
11:48<@Alberth>cargo itself would do that, wouldn't it? :)
11:49<@Alberth>box cars with some windows :)
11:50<andythenorth>open-top box cars :P
11:51<@Alberth>nuts does colouring the other way around for tank wagons, empty wagons are 50% yellow and 50% red, full are almost completely yellow :)
11:52<@Alberth>clearly empty wagons are more dangerous :)
11:52<andythenorth>super dangerous
11:52<andythenorth>not sure I care enough about empty vs. loaded tank wagons :)
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11:53<@Alberth>you'd use barrels otherwise :)
11:54<andythenorth>could animate vapour coming from full ones
11:55<@Alberth>lying on their side, 5 or so (3 at the bottom ,and 2 on top)
11:56<LordAro>V453000: why have i only just connected "friday facts" with being released on a friday?
11:56<@Alberth>you live day-less?
11:57<LordAro>well i'm on holiday at the moment
11:57<LordAro>so yes
11:57<@Alberth>perhaps rather week-less :)
11:57<LordAro>eh, it's only a 4 day weekend
11:58<@Alberth>you skipped friday :)
12:06<LordAro>aye :)
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12:14<supermop_>andythenorth: fictional articulated z class: just two of them in multiple?
12:14<supermop_>RH trams seem to be that
12:14<andythenorth>1 tile length
12:14<andythenorth>are they 8/8?
12:14<supermop_>or chop off the cabs and throw in a bellows
12:14<supermop_>Zs will be 8/8 once i make my blue bits bigger
12:15<andythenorth>pax trams work best at 16/8
12:15<supermop_>yeah yeah
12:15<supermop_>what looks least stupid
12:15<andythenorth>18/8 is the optimimum length for station performance in my tests
12:16<andythenorth>but 16/8 looks better
12:16<supermop_>regardless of length, though - dead cabs nose to nose in the center, or a single bendy vehicle
12:17<supermop_>like if this had been made 10 years earlier:
12:17<andythenorth>where are they in your progression tree?
12:17<andythenorth>what generation?
12:18<supermop_>4th, 1965
12:18<andythenorth>dead cabs
12:19<supermop_>other option is single ended trams coupled tail to tail
12:19<supermop_>no prototype for that but wouldn't look too bad
12:20<supermop_>need to hire two trammies tho
12:24<andythenorth>Hog tends to repeat double-cab units
12:24<andythenorth>for drawing reasons
12:24<andythenorth>50% less of it :P
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12:30<supermop_>going to have to deal with this when upgrading to modern trams:
12:31<andythenorth>finding 5 ways to draw hopper cars is going to be a PITA
12:31<andythenorth>generations suck :P
12:42<@Alberth>make less
12:43<@Alberth>engines are much more relevant than wagons, imho
12:51<andythenorth>I think the inverse :)
12:51<andythenorth>literally every newgrf has focussed on baziliions of engines
12:52<andythenorth>except literally Pineapple :P
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13:19<@Alberth>andy: most newgrfs make too many available at once, mostly just because RL did that
13:20<andythenorth>I am over-providing wagons :P
13:21<andythenorth>nobody else has done that yet afaik
13:21<@Alberth>is horse nightly playable, or are you in the middle of hacking?
13:21<andythenorth>new mistakes to make
13:21<andythenorth>horse is pretty bad
13:21<andythenorth>the graphics are all for — view only :)
13:21<@Alberth>"over-providing wagons" :D
13:21<andythenorth>I will have to turn on ‘vehicles expire’ setting
13:22<@Alberth>nah, it needs wagons expire :p
13:23<@Alberth>I have it turned off now for some time, and it's not a problem, you just hide the old one whenever you're done with it
13:24<@Alberth>maybe it becomes a nuisance with a bazillion engines, but I wouldn't dare trying that :p
13:25<@Alberth>maybe just aim for more diversity in wagons
13:27<andythenorth>1900-1990 4 generations
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13:36<@Alberth>looks nice
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13:41<frosch123>Alberth: andy learnt that you get the most feedback for teaser images, no need to make stuff playable with other views than ---
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14:11<@Alberth>unfortunately that breaks if people want to actually play with the set :p
14:11<@Alberth>but fair enough, no point in making all 4 sides if you ditch the wagon anyway
14:13<andythenorth>there’s quite a high rate of deletion :)
14:17<@Alberth>s/deletion/progress/ :)
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14:32<andythenorth>some sort of irl copy of my sprites
14:34<frosch123>recently i notice a lot of v cars at the local station
14:34<frosch123>never saw them in ottd
14:34<frosch123>apparently they are for cement and stuff
14:37<andythenorth>frosch123: “Silo Car"
14:37<andythenorth>planning to add tehm
14:37<andythenorth>them *
14:38<frosch123>in this shape they always look like broken tank wagons :)
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14:41<andythenorth>sliding roof wagon?
14:42<frosch123>anyway, those dump cars randomise between the two cc?
14:43<andythenorth>if you don’t like it, you can set both cc same also
14:43<frosch123>i like it :)
14:44*andythenorth +1
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15:34<andythenorth>any new FS? o_O
15:36*andythenorth allows ridiculous 110mph freight train
15:36<andythenorth>because game
15:36<andythenorth>could have a parameter eh, realisms or not
15:37<Wolf01>I was at the station bar today, I noticed we have a lot of freigh trains passing here
15:37<andythenorth>probably not 110mph
15:38<Wolf01>Not in the station for sure
15:38<V453000>110mph isn't that game-much
15:38<frosch123>they were probably military trains
15:38<frosch123>italy is going to invade monacco, san marino and vatican over the weekend
15:39<V453000>iz SH40 from vanilla
15:39<frosch123>V453000: why do you know those numbers?
15:39<V453000>which numbers?
15:39<frosch123>speed of sh40
15:39<V453000>well I played the game for some hours you know :P
15:40<V453000>and I have good memory for stupid shit
15:40<V453000>can't remember what I had for lunch
15:40<andythenorth>did you have lunch?
15:41<V453000>good question
15:41<V453000>I did though
15:41<frosch123>hmm, if you do not know what you had for lunch, what did you have lunch for...
15:42<V453000>biological upkeep :D
15:42<V453000>lunch won't make pixels for you
15:42<frosch123>ah, it's to avoid licking pixels
15:44<Wolf01><andythenorth> probably not 110mph <- the ones I've seen are designed for 87mph
15:45<LordAro>bad things happen when it hits 88mph
15:45<V453000>== they go 120mph :P
15:45<Wolf01> 3 of these in 20 minutes
15:48*andythenorth should draw some
15:48<andythenorth>horse is very bad for compile times
15:53<andythenorth>all the cargo sprites :(
16:00<V453000>blabla :P
16:02<frosch123>haha, yesterday wolf complains about no new high res pictures, and today v writes fff :p
16:05<V453000>lol what
16:05<V453000>Wolf01 ubitch
16:06<V453000>that's the whole message I got nothing else :P
16:06<Wolf01>BTW, really nice, good boy V
16:07<V453000>I'm working on like 4 things simultaneously :P
16:07<Wolf01>Finally the circuit box doesn't look like a sticker on top of the things
16:07<V453000>blender scenes are wrecked, need to redo a lot of stuff
16:07<V453000>even the lamp is done from zero, blend scene didn't exist
16:09<Wolf01>Oh, I noticed today that F/blog has a rss feed
16:12<Wolf01>That wire on the rails...
16:12<Wolf01> It doesn't look really safe to me
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16:15<frosch123>oh, 4 years of fff
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16:16<frosch123>Wolf01: it detects trains :) single use only
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17:28<V453000>well shits
17:28<V453000>the land recolouring doesn't quite work very well for tunnels :D
17:28<ST2>... happen
17:28<Wolf01>Do tunnels by hand
17:29<V453000>well that's basically what I'm doing
17:32<V453000>hm, maybe this hack will work
17:33<Wolf01>Well, I was waiting for a random rss feed update to check if the UI updates as well... well, I was in th wrong tab, missed the update :|
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18:35<nicfer>V453000, do you manage the YETI newgrf repo?
18:37<nicfer>Because I can't clone it, and I get a sudden "transaction abort!" message followed by a rollback
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18:40<nicfer>And then "abort: HTTP request error (incomplete response)", and then it says that it may be an intermitent network failure, but it keeps happening since two days
18:44<nicfer>Other Mercurial repos work correctly, so I guess it's not my connection
18:46<@planetmaker>nicfer, it's a HUGE repo. Might be that it only clones correctly via ssh. Give me your key, and you can try that way
18:46<LordAro>could be something to do with the file sizes
18:52<nicfer>I don't have a key set
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19:51<nicfer>I think I have a SSH key
19:52<nicfer>Can I use that to clone that way?
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22:04<Cubey>So it turns out it is possible to change the gamescript in an existing savegame by opening it in the scenario editor
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22:08<supermop_home>$50 off!
---Logclosed Sat Sep 30 00:00:18 2017