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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-11-02

---Logopened Thu Nov 02 00:00:05 2017
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02:47<PressureLine>damn slow Czarist trains
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06:29<andythenorth>V453000: just leaving this here
06:30<andythenorth>Talgo train in Spain
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09:14<Wolf01> lol
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09:42<supermop>good morning
09:42<__ln__>good "morning"
09:43<Wolf01>Sure it's morning somewhere in the world
09:43<__ln__>not if you believe earth is flat
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10:01<supermop>gah i totally missed this show i wanted to see:
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11:36<FLHerne>Hey, even the great Gene Ray accepted that it's always morning somewhere
11:42<FLHerne>"You are not allowed to know truth - that in one rotation of Earth, there are:
11:42<FLHerne> * 24 hours in midnight to midnight.
11:42<FLHerne> * 24 hours in sunup to sunup...........
11:42<FLHerne>* 24 hours in midday to midday.....
11:43<FLHerne>* 24 hours in sundown to sundown.
11:43<FLHerne>(IRC formatting can't really do Time Cube justice)
11:44<FLHerne> * 4 days in only 1 Earth rotation...
11:44<FLHerne> * 4 simultaneous years of the seasons.
11:44<@Rubidium>except that the earth doesn't do 1 rotation in 24 hours
11:45<FLHerne> * No infinite days within 96 hours.
11:45<FLHerne>* 4 different directions in clockwise.
11:46<FLHerne> * 3 days lost to academic stupidity.
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11:48<FLHerne>Rubidium: How dare you?! Teaching that Earth has only 1 day in 1 rotation, is adult poison forced on their children, as in the Jonestown mass murder.
11:48<FLHerne>You shouldn't assert such evil things.
11:56<Samu>I dunno how to ask this of you
11:56<Samu>can i sort vectors?
11:57<LordAro>Samu: that StationLidt thing you were on a few days ago was a smallvector
11:58<LordAro>i.e. the same way
11:58<Samu>i'm back to it again, how did u guess
11:58<Samu>bool  Include (const T &item)   Tests whether a item is present in the vector, and appends it to the end if not.
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11:59<Samu>instead of appending it to the end, I insert it somewhere between two other items
11:59<Samu>is that possible?
12:00<Samu>trying to sort by insertion
12:03<LordAro>QSortT is already a thing
12:04<LordAro>whatever you're trying sounds awful
12:16<Samu>I failed to use QSortT
12:16<Samu>is it really that easy?
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12:17<LordAro>Samu: yup
12:17<LordAro>Samu: hint, exactly the same interface as qsort
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12:48<Wolf01> Hughes did it first (bananas)
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12:57<Samu>LordAro: how do I pass the cargo type in the comparator?
13:00<LordAro>Samu: not easily
13:01<LordAro>i think you can do something with a comparator "object"
13:01<Samu>static int CDECL CompareCargoRatings(Station * const *a, Station * const *b) { return (*b)->goods[type].rating - (*a)->goods[type].rating; }
13:01<Samu>type is missing
13:07<Samu>comparator object?
13:09<LordAro>sorry, i believe "comparison functor" is the more usual term
13:10<LordAro>essentially you have a class with some state (type), and an operator() overload for the types you're interested in (Station *...)
13:10<LordAro>i *think* that will work
13:11<LordAro>there's an example in src/linkgraph.mcf.cpp, but it's a bit templatedised
13:13<Wolf01> supermop
13:13<Samu>i feel like copy pasting GSortT and adapt the comparator in it
13:15<supermop>Wolf01: a suggestion to add to grf?
13:15<LordAro>Samu: QSortT
13:15<LordAro>but yes, that will work
13:15<Wolf01>supermop: it might be an interesting theme
13:15<Samu>QSortT code is HELL
13:15<Samu>i mean qsort
13:15<LordAro>Samu: well no, you don't copy that
13:15<LordAro>that would be silly
13:16<LordAro>Samu: if you could use C++11, i'd just say that you should just use a lambda
13:16<LordAro>and variable capture
13:16<LordAro>but alas ottd is not there yet
13:17<Samu>qsort.cpp is a microsoft file :(
13:17<LordAro>qsort.cpp is microsoft's implementation of the POSIX function qsort
13:17<LordAro>it's part of the standard library and no one is suggesting that you even look at that file
13:18<supermop>Wolf01: current project is generating arbitrarily many random gourds for autumnal decoration
13:25<supermop>maybe i'll add some lumpiness
13:26<Cubey>Neat but you've gotta bend the central axis somehow
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13:30<supermop>Cubey: considered it but probably won't
13:31<Cubey>You're in the uncanny valley of gourds!
13:31<supermop>only really long necked gourds really have that, and then they might look like dicks
13:31<supermop>uncanny valley is sort of the point
13:31<Cubey>Ah yeah I guess that would be a problem
13:32<supermop>going to use like 80s graphic patterns for the gourd skin
13:32<Cubey>Some of those bowling pin looking ones just don't look right to me... making them gnarly and lumpy would probably help though
13:33<Cubey>This is neat though, I don't know exactly what it is but it looks like you set up parameters for procedurally generating a 3D model as a graph
13:33<Cubey>And gourds are a great candidate for procedural generation
13:33<supermop>well can add bump or displacement maps when rendering
13:34<supermop>exactly, as they are sort of modular in their growth, despite having a huge diversity of shapes
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13:40<supermop>hmm seems most decorative gourds have 10 radial segments
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13:41<supermop>i sort of expected it to be an even distribution over a range of values
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13:44<supermop>also currently in the 'fat' part of the gourd, i have the radius vary randomly, and just discard seed values that do not produce good looking results
13:44<supermop>whereas i should make some rules about what range they can have
13:45<Samu>that's what i got, pseudo-copy of my code
13:46<Samu>how do I do this :(
13:46<LordAro>i know what you've got
13:47<Samu>CompareCargoRatings doesn't compile
13:47<Samu>doesn't know the variable type
13:47<Samu>named "type"
13:47<LordAro>i understand what's going on, there's no need to repeat it
13:48<Samu>sorry, i'm noob
13:50<Samu> QSortT<Station *>(used_stations.Begin(), used_stations.Length(), CompareCargoRatings "insert variable 'type' somewhere here to pass it to the comparator");
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13:53<Wolf01>Heh, imgur broken
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13:57<Samu>what's a functor
13:58<LordAro>Samu: google
13:59<LordAro>Samu: however, i'm not sure there is actually a good solution with <C++11
13:59<LordAro>nontrivially, anyway
13:59<LordAro>a global variable would work
13:59<Samu>hmm go easy on me, a global variable, like how :(
14:00<LordAro>as in, declare a variable (CargoType or w/e) outside of a function
14:00<LordAro>and refer to it that way
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14:00<LordAro>it's not good, but i can't actually think of another way to do it with qsort
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14:03<Samu>CargoID this_is_a_global_variable;
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14:03<Samu>return (*b)->goods[this_is_a_global_variable].rating - (*a)->goods[this_is_a_global_variable].rating;
14:03<Samu>let's see what happens
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14:05<as>is still updated openttd?
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14:07<Samu>that seems tohave worked
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14:09<Samu_>do i relly have to use QSortT? isn't GSortT better?
14:09<Samu_>at least I understand what it's doing
14:10<LordAro>those are not equivalent :p
14:10<LordAro>qsort is an implementation of quicksort, that is in nearly all cases faster than gnome sort
14:10<LordAro>you should only use GSort if you know that you need to
14:13<as>you know if some servers will organize tournament soon
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14:18<Samu>sorry my internet today is doing weird stuff
14:23<Samu>yeah, global variable was just what I needed, thx
14:24<Samu>static CargoID cargotype;
14:24<Samu>is it static?
14:24<Samu>static inline?
14:26<Samu>not really sure about QSortT vs GSortT, they seem to produce the same result
14:26<Samu>i'll leave it as QSort
14:31<LordAro>Samu: of course they produce the same result
14:31<LordAro>what on earth did you expect?
14:31<LordAro>if your sorting is nondeterministic, you have problems
14:32<Samu>the code of qsort looks much larger
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14:32<Samu>in comparison to GSortT
14:33<Samu>it does more things
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14:34<LordAro>Samu: go look up sort algorithms
14:34<LordAro>and time complexity
14:35<Samu>GSortT is about 40 lines, the other is 380 lines of code
14:36<LordAro>while(true) {}
14:36<LordAro>one line of code
14:36<LordAro>not very fast
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14:39<Samu> this is qsort
14:40<LordAro>what is your point?
14:40<Samu> GSortT
14:41<Samu>it's much easier to follow GsortT
14:41<LordAro>i am quite capable of reading source code
14:41<Samu>i dunno, seems too complex to be quicker
14:43<LordAro>you should look inside some other standard library files some time
14:43<LordAro>of course they're complicated, they're highly optimised
14:43<LordAro>whereas gsort is not
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27930 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2017-11-02 19:45:39 +0100 )
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
14:45<@DorpsGek>chinese (simplified): 2 changes by yfdyh000
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14:59<supermop>ok i think i have it so gourds only vary on 9 variables now
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15:00<supermop>should be pretty easy to manually look through millions to find 20 or so that look best
15:01<andythenorth>write an AI to do it ;)
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15:03<supermop>wife suggested genetic algorithm
15:03<supermop>and grasshopper comes with evolutionary solver
15:03<Samu>anyway, now that I got all stations sorted by rating
15:03<Samu>what to do next hmm :)
15:04<Samu>must thikn
15:04<supermop>but hard to define fitness for 'some bumpy, some smooth, basically looking like a variety of gourds'
15:04<supermop>unless you have already trained something on millions of photos of gourds
15:05<supermop>if i had a million photos of gourds, wouldn't need to generate them
15:06<supermop>Samu: want to write an AI to select nice looking autumnal decorative gourds?
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15:08<Samu>i don't know how to write an AI
15:12*andythenorth got a new computer
15:12<andythenorth>compile is still super slow though :P
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15:17<andythenorth>should I add tyres? o_O
15:18<ST2>andythenorth: and engines... how do you make vehicles xD
15:18<andythenorth>vehicle parts
15:18<andythenorth>from the foundry
15:19<ST2>fair enough :)
15:19<andythenorth>I tried 'powertrain components' for a while, was weird, dunno why
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17:52<andythenorth>can I delete Food?
17:52<andythenorth>then I can add Tyres
17:52<Wolf01>Replace it with tyres, deliver tyres to people homes
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18:01<frosch123>andythenorth: i wondered whether vehicled bodies should be renamed to sheet metal
18:02<frosch123>wondering about vehicle graphics for it
18:02<andythenorth>they are trucks with blacked out windows :)
18:02<andythenorth>it used to be galvanised steel
18:02<frosch123>also, what cargo has the TE_WATER?
18:02<andythenorth>dunno :)
18:02<frosch123>pipe? :p
18:03<andythenorth>none currently :P
18:03<andythenorth>TE is probably quite broken in FIRS
18:03<andythenorth>I haven't paid attention to it
18:03<frosch123>so, you already broke tropic
18:03<frosch123>also break arctic by removing food?
18:04<frosch123>vehicles can take the role
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18:06<andythenorth>I should unbreak tropic eh :P
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18:07<frosch123>anyway, the main argument for/against raising the cargo limit seems to be whether it is good or bad for andy's health
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18:12<andythenorth>32 is very good
18:13<andythenorth>I never wish for more
18:13<andythenorth>whereas I often wish for 3 output cargos
18:14<supermop>broke grasshopper with myriads of gourds
18:14<frosch123>ok, 8 input, 8 output? or other numbers?
18:14<frosch123>any other kind of effect?
18:14<andythenorth>3 input, 3 output
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18:15<frosch123>in the past we talked about electricity, but in the end it was not considered good
18:15<andythenorth>V453000 also talked about electricity
18:15<andythenorth>I would do electricity per tile :P
18:15<andythenorth>or per region of tiles
18:15<frosch123>afaik noone used the things that were added to make industries talk between each other
18:16<andythenorth>industries can talk between each other? :o
18:16<frosch123>per town
18:16<frosch123>industries within a town can talk to each other
18:16<andythenorth>I thought it was deleted from spec
18:17<frosch123>town persistent storage was implemented like 5 years ago :p but i do not recall ever being used
18:17<andythenorth>maybe I looked in wrong places in docs
18:17<andythenorth>I looked recently, I had silly ideas
18:18<andythenorth>maybe here
18:18<andythenorth>ok, so it does exist
18:18*andythenorth might have to revisit silly ideas
18:19<andythenorth>means electricity and gas are possible
18:27<andythenorth>also bed
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18:55<Samu>how do I iterate backwards? :(
18:55<Samu>from End() to Begin() ?
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20:32<Samu>C4715 'MoveGoodsToStation': not all control paths return a value openttd d:\openttd\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp 3913
20:32<Samu>what does it mean not all control paths return a value?
20:32<Samu>they do
20:33<ST2>well, I must say: after people try some online servers... they come back to BTPro trying todo the same
20:34<Samu>st2, hi
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20:35<ST2>and, imo - there should be a window shown to when joining a MP server
20:35<ST2>saying something
20:35<Samu>it's that for cycle at line 56 that's telling me not all control paths return a value, can u take a look, plz?
20:36<ST2>Samu, STFU, I'm pissed now, not with you or the game ^^
20:40<Samu>gonna try use a while
20:40<ST2>once upon a time, someone suggested to link logins (game) to OpenTTD related stuff (tt-forums)
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20:44<ST2>I guess that won't go into production because couldn't make it work with SOAP, even on the openttdcoop servers
20:46<ST2>anyway, better I stop whining - people is away ^^
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---Logclosed Fri Nov 03 00:00:07 2017