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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-12-06

---Logopened Thu Dec 06 00:00:24 2018
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03:46<@orudge> <-- official version of OpenTTD in the Windows Store (although it's x64 only at present, not x86 or ARM as it says)
04:01<SpComb>good thing that it has (official) in the title to differentiate it from all the non-official ones
04:02<SpComb> is still selling for $2
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04:16<@orudge>SpComb: yes, unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that it seems
04:16<@orudge>I have e-mailed the 'author' of that but no response
04:24<LordAro>what was the reason microsoft wouldn't remove it?
04:25<@orudge>"Without an official government trademark registration, we can't adequately assess your trademark rights. "
04:26<@orudge>"We recommend you contact trademark counsel for more information or reach out to the content creator directly."
04:26<@orudge>Since OpenTTD is GPL, they can sell it
04:28<LordAro>how very boring
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04:51<@planetmaker>what burocratic effort is it to setup an OpenTTD foundation?
04:51<@planetmaker>and what cost is a trademark registration?
04:52<@planetmaker>and Microsoft of course is a ... whimp. Of course they could. It's their store and they can do and cease doing whatever they want. They just don't want
04:52<@orudge>Probably a reasonable effort (depends where you do it, I suppose), and in the hundreds of pounds/euros range I think
04:53<@planetmaker>not worth it, I guess
05:54*Sacro trademarks orudge
05:58*orudge copyrights Sacro
06:20<Sacro>But when I have kids, they'll be infringing copyright
06:21<@orudge>Could be an authorised reproduction
06:22<@orudge>You'll need to check the licence agreement
06:23<@peter1138>orudge, cool that it is on there now :D
06:24<@peter1138>Searching for "OpenTTD" doesn't return it, though :(
06:25<@orudge>I initially published it as 'secret' so I could make sure it actually works!
06:25<@orudge>I've submitted an update now which should make it public
06:25<@peter1138>Ah, ok.
06:25<@orudge>and also adds back in an x86 version if anybody still uses that
06:25<@peter1138>integrated mouse
06:26<@peter1138>Ooh I have a Windows 10 laptop here...
06:27<SpComb>I could try playing it instead of Transport Fever - last beta patch game crashed when autosaving and I lost 10min of work, stopped playing that game
06:27<@orudge>I am still slowly attempting to work on a UWP version (which would allow deployment on ARM, Xbox, tablets, etc, although whether it would play nicely there is another matter!) - looking at sticking in DirectWrite for font stuff instead of freetype (based on michi_cc's Win32-based PR), and Direct2D instead of GDI, because there is no GDI.
06:30<@peter1138>Mmm, replacing GDI with DirectSomething is probably a good idea anyway.
06:30<@peter1138>GDI is well obsolete :p
06:30<@orudge>It's somewhat of a learning project for me, but time is as ever the challenge
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13:17<Wolf01>So, lifechat 3000 headphones work flawlessly with my phone, good to know
13:58<+michi_cc>orudge: You do know about ?
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15:03<PNDA>Hi, is this a good place to talk about NML?
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15:06<andythenorth>it's the best
15:06<andythenorth>well, maybe
15:06<PNDA>Ok, because I am trying to maybe integrate Stations into NML. I have got a few problems with that. Currently with defining the name of a station
15:07<andythenorth>stations o_O
15:07<andythenorth>interesting move :)
15:07<PNDA>well, for one string in a item property, it outputs a sprite 6 and sprite 7, and sprite 6 is not understandable
15:08<PNDA>it gives it 2 FF and a \wx0000 and a \wxC500
15:08<andythenorth>have you got a fork?
15:08<andythenorth>NML moved to github recently
15:08<PNDA>Yes, I do
15:09<andythenorth>ok so answers here can be slow :)
15:09<andythenorth>stations were left out of nml because they're a PITA
15:09<andythenorth>but it is a wanted feature
15:10<PNDA>It is very wanted, I have tried using m4NFO, and its really strange to use. NFO is just nothing for me with these Bytes
15:11<nielsm>if what you have is a PITA, consider making kebab
15:11<nielsm>or maybe falafel
15:11<nielsm>I'm not sure where I'm going with this
15:13<andythenorth>PNDA you probably need frosch or pl*netmaker
15:13<andythenorth>not many other people can comment on nml internals currently
15:13<andythenorth>I can do basic maintenance, but not extend stations :P
15:14<PNDA>Have you ever used NFO?
15:14<andythenorth>a lot
15:14<PNDA>6 * 10 00 04 \b1 01 FF \wx0000 FF \wxC500
15:14<PNDA>7 * 16 04 04 FF 01 \wxC500 "Station_1" 00
15:15<PNDA>That is the Station Code that NML has managed to output
15:15<PNDA>I just wanted to add this
15:17<frosch123>that action 0 makes no sense
15:18<PNDA>Yeah, sprite 6 is currently the only thing really not working. It gives a Fatal Error
15:19<frosch123>what is your actual question?
15:19<PNDA>If anyone here has a Idea why it is causing that issue
15:19<frosch123>the action 4 defines the name for station id 0
15:19<frosch123>what is the action 0 supposed to do?
15:20<frosch123>what is your input nml?
15:20<PNDA>this would be it:
15:21<frosch123>ok, in that case it should not create a aciton 0 at all
15:21<nielsm>if I were to implement NML support for stations I would probably begin with making a prototype that can only produce a limited subset of possible station definitions, but does output valid NFO/GRF
15:21<PNDA>Which is literally what I am trying to do
15:22<nielsm>your action 0 is missiogn prop 8 first of all
15:22<frosch123>let's see how vehicles do it
15:22<PNDA>yes, it should look something like this: 04 04 FF 01 01 C5 "Empty Platform" 00 (As of m4nfo)
15:23<frosch123>that's the action 4
15:23<frosch123>that one is generated correctly by your nml
15:24<PNDA>Well I took the 'name' property from vehicles at first, but when using the same one as with Houses, it works fine, and the action 4 does not give any errors
15:24<PNDA>And yes, I just realised that was the wrong nfo I sent
15:24<PNDA>This is a action0 as of m4nfo: 9 * 14 00 04 03 01 01 08 "ASDP" 0B 02 11 00
15:25<frosch123>'name' : {'num': -1, 'string': None}, <- that's from the nml vehicle code
15:25<frosch123> <- you assigned it property 0xFF
15:25<PNDA>yes, which did not work for 0x04, I edited the one from houses which at the end looks like this: {'size': 2, 'num': 0xFF, 'string': 0xC5}
15:26<frosch123>it needs to be "-1" and no size to not output an action0
15:27<PNDA>Well I can't change it to "-1", that would give out a Internal error
15:27<frosch123>'station_name': { 'num':-1, 'string': ???},
15:27<frosch123>i am not yet sure how 'string' is used
15:27<frosch123>PNDA: but "-1" is correct :p
15:27<frosch123>everything else causes your problem with the sprite 6
15:27<PNDA>I know, I removed num not size, stupid one
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15:29<frosch123>s/know/figured it out/ ?
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15:35<PNDA>I am sorry for leaving, I have to go now. Goodbye
15:35<@orudge>michi_cc: I had forgotten about that, actually. That may work.
15:36<+michi_cc>No idea if OpenGL is acceptable for UWP, but it could at least be used as a basis for using DirectX instead.
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15:36<@orudge>Hm, seems there is no OpenGL support in UWP
15:36<@orudge>but may be of interest anyway
15:37<+michi_cc>BTW, anybody wants to write a Linux or OSX video driver for it?
15:38<andythenorth>peter1138 does
15:38<nielsm>I think I've suggested it before, but what about a replacement blitter too that produces a sprite (and other commands) list instead and has the gpu render each sprite as a textured quad
15:39<nielsm>and possibly take advantage of Z buffer as replacement for sprite sorting
15:40<+michi_cc>That would be my next step, but replicating everything the current blitters do isn't that simple (i.e. stuff like remapping screen rects).
15:43<nielsm>remapping... as in moved a window since previous frame?
15:43<+michi_cc>No, as in applying a colour remap to the screen.
15:44<nielsm>pallette animation?
15:44<nielsm>or recoloring 32 bpp sprites?
15:44<+michi_cc>no, mostly the grey newspaper.
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15:44<+michi_cc>Palette animation is already in the branch.
15:46<nielsm>newspaper is done as render viewport, then postprocess it to greyscale?
15:46<nielsm>right, so you'd have to change it to render viewport (with greyscale map) or similar
15:47<frosch123>it's also used for "glass" effects in the regular viewport
15:48<frosch123>anyway, don't 32bpp blitters replace all of that with alpha?
15:48<+michi_cc>The main problem with a sprite "blitter" is that everything assumes a persistent screen (including possibly NewGRFs), which is exactly what 3D graphics don't do.
15:49<+michi_cc>Conceptually, replicating this with render-to-texture and several framebuffers is possible, it just has to be fast enough to be worthwhile.
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16:29<andythenorth>oof supplies remains frustrating with cdist
16:29<andythenorth>always large quantiities undelivered
16:30<andythenorth>and I can't persuade cdist to route it across many destinations
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 07 00:00:26 2018