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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-01-14

---Logopened Mon Jan 14 00:00:20 2019
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02:35<@peter1138>He should be a pathfinder expert by now.
02:35<@peter1138>I fear though that he hasn't figured out there's a built-in profiling mode for one of them.
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03:02<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I have a custom python sort challenge
03:02<andythenorth>current implementation is "sorted(wagon_consists, key=lambda wagon_consist: wagon_consist.subtype)"
03:02<andythenorth>subtypes are 'A', 'B', 'C', or 'U'
03:03<andythenorth>I want sort rank to be 'U', 'A', 'B', 'C'
03:03<andythenorth>I thought of at least two bad ways to do it
03:03<andythenorth>but presumably sort can be given a custom comparison, such that U < A, U < B, U < C, and A B C remain lexical w.r.t each other
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04:37<@planetmaker>moin moin
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06:11<@peter1138>Anything left to close?
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06:24<andythenorth>all closed
06:43<@peter1138>Stale ;p
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08:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] claman commented on pull request #18: Change copyright date to use site.time
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08:29<andythenorth>close it!
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08:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 updated pull request #7047: Add #6887: Highlight tiles within local authority of towns
09:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: depends how "exdentable" you need it, but as a start how about "sorted(wagon_consists, key=lambda wagon_consist: {"U": 1, "A": 2, "B": 3, "C": 4}[wagon_consist.subtype])"
09:05<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: looks good I'll try
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>you could also fiddle around with rexex
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>or you could rename the subtypes so they are lexical ordering to begin with
09:07<andythenorth>that was my crude solution
09:07<andythenorth>but yours works, and is highly readable
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10:01<Samu>how do I measure the time a code part takes to complete?
10:02<Samu>need to investigate why npf stalls for too long
10:03<Samu>want to know where exactly the slowdown comes from
10:05<LordAro>Samu: the thing you want to google is "profiling"
10:05<LordAro>and probably add "visual studio"
10:09<Samu>diagnostic tools?
10:17<milek7>i use gperftools
10:18<nielsm>visual studio community should have microsoft's profiler built in
10:18<nielsm>just keep in mind it can take a LOT of memory/storage to capture a profiling run
10:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size.
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10:41<Samu>dont know how to make it work
10:42<Samu>it always says no code was run during selected time range
10:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size.
10:52<Samu>this is a lie
10:52<Samu>i always get no code was run during selected time range
11:00<@peter1138>Hmm, on my old server, I have an svn checkout from 2009 that contains patches to increase the cargo limit to 64...
11:12<Sacro>I have many old files
11:12<Sacro>Like the MiniIN
11:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin updated pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size.
11:14<@peter1138>Simulation rate: 34.30 frames/s
11:14<@peter1138>Hmm, seems fast :/
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11:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size.
11:20<Sacro>Running it in NTSC?
11:20<@peter1138>It is running in a VM though.
11:21<@peter1138>Urgh, why is window resizing so broken.
11:21<@peter1138>Oh I remember, SDL doesn't technically support it.
11:21<@peter1138>It recreates the window every time. Some window managers cope.
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11:58<@peter1138>Urgh, I really show clean up my stashes.
11:59<@peter1138>show -> should
12:01<Samu>the slower part of yapf is memset ?
12:01<Samu>I dont get this
12:03<@peter1138>nielsm, nice.
12:03<nielsm>Samu: means it spends a lot of time zeroing memory, I guess
12:05<nielsm>reversing little programs like this is an oddly fun kind of puzzle
12:06<nielsm>taking guesses at what some things are/do, then try building a skeleton program for that, then deriving some more meaning from the original, blindly re-implementing code you don't understand, and then slowly getting to an understanding
12:06<nielsm>I'm sure you can get better at it with practice :)
12:07<@peter1138>Surely you just try something once, realise it doesn't work, keeping try, still doesn't work, then give up and move on to something else?
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12:09<Samu>in debug mode these times are skewed
12:11<Samu>what takes 2.5 secs in release mode takes 40 secs in debug mode
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12:16<@peter1138>That's because it's a debug build.
12:17<Samu>sending 5000 ships to depots with NPF
12:18<Samu>takes a spike of 14,112 s selected
12:18<Samu>I'm not sure where to look at
12:19<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Hmm, on my old server, I have an svn checkout from 2009 that contains patches to increase the cargo limit to 64... <-- to whom should that be a surprise?
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12:30<@peter1138>Hmm, got a stash here that attempts to implement a path cache for ships.
12:30<Samu>i was able to filter out memset stuff
12:31<Samu> top - npf, middle - opf, bottom - yapf
12:31<Samu>ah, memset was only shown on debug mode, i guess
12:32<Samu>i'm still unsure what numbers are important
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there were more people who attempted ship pathfinder optimisations
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12:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm, now even "Der Spiegel" is citing xkcd
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>(that's one of the largest news magazines and one of the largest news websites in germany)
12:37<Samu>the slower part of NPF is BinaryHeap::Delete and Has
12:37<Samu>doesn't look like stuff I should care about
12:38<nielsm>Eddi|zuHause, correct horse battery stable?
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: no, it's about protein folding, and they cited the "now imagine folding a live one"
12:42<Samu>the slow part is queue.cpp, I never touched this file
12:42<Samu>dont even know for sure what's doing
12:43<nielsm>it's a data structure for a priority queue, I believe
12:43<Samu>it has BinaryHeap and Hash
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12:44<Samu>BinaryHeap sounds familiar, I had that thing on my AI, and switched to Fibonacci
12:44<nielsm>and it's likely the part that takes up the most time because stuffing elements into a queue and taking them out again might be the basis of the algorithm
12:45<Samu>now, i dunno anything about the hash
12:46<Samu>There's nothing I can do here then :(
12:48<Samu> * Deletes the item from the queue. priority should be specified if
12:48<Samu> * known, which speeds up the deleting for some queue's. Should be -1
12:48<Samu> * if not known.
12:49<Samu>that's a funny comment, it ends being the slowest part of NPF
12:49<Samu>bool BinaryHeap::Delete(void *item, int priority)
12:49<Samu>ok, enough of this
12:49<@peter1138>Don't bother trying to optimise NPF. YAPF exists for a reason.
12:50<Samu>yapf was the fastest
12:50<@peter1138>Odd that!
12:50<Samu>thx for yapf
12:50<Samu>and yesterday I just shoved off 10 seconds from opf
12:50<Samu>with that code update
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13:15<Wolf01>Mmmh, I think it's a bit that I don't visit the forum... I don't remember the snow this winter
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13:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ABCRic commented on issue #4115: Default company color setting
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13:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #4115: Default company color setting
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13:40<andythenorth>I did a terrible thing
13:41<Samu>to repent, test my pr's
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>how could you!
13:41<andythenorth>I went onto LinkedIn
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13:42<andythenorth>then...I messaged Yexo in it
13:43<andythenorth>peter1138: yo
13:43<LordAro>andythenorth: any particular purpose?
13:43<andythenorth>LordAro: none at all
13:43<andythenorth>my favourite things to do have no purpose
13:44<nnyby>haha same i feel
13:47<LordAro>andythenorth: excellent
13:48<Samu>i have some patches here that i'm scared to PR
13:48<Samu>because I know already they're not gonna be accepted
13:49<Samu>but they are done :(
13:51<Samu>for example that one
13:52<andythenorth>peter1138: open source clone of Chocks Away? I could ask him if he wants to help....
13:53<nielsm>some of the code this compiler has generated is completely baffling... "and al, 0FFh"
13:53<@peter1138>Requires me to sign in.
13:53<nielsm>al is a byte register, and'ing it with FFh is a no-op
13:53<@peter1138>nielsm, sets CPU registers though, no?
13:53<nielsm>touching al should not touch ah
13:54<@peter1138>Dunno though.
13:54<andythenorth>nielsm: LinkedIn such very evil
13:54<nielsm>though it should clear the top 16 bits of eax
13:54*andythenorth wonders if MS will merge LinkedIn and github
13:54<andythenorth>it's the obvious step
13:55<@peter1138>nielsm, I mean the FLAGS register. I dunno if it does.
13:55<andythenorth>free recruiter spam with every PR
13:55<nielsm>yeah no, the next thing it does it pushing ax to set up a function call
13:57<Samu>theres microphone support on openttd now=
13:58<Samu>something from X Audio?
13:58<nielsm>dwfreed: honestly I should just stop being shocked that a C compiler from 1994 (or earlier) generates bad code
14:00<nielsm>Samu: no, xaudio is only used for sound out, as an alternative to dsound on windows
14:00<nielsm>(because it makes it easier to port to UWP or something)
14:03<Samu>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State
14:03<Samu>Warning C4146 unary minus operator applied to unsigned type, result still unsigned (compiling source file ..\src\map.cpp) openttd d:\openttd\openttd github\openttd\src\core\math_func.hpp 85
14:03<Samu>this wasn't here yesterday
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14:13<Samu>i failed to do a push --force
14:13<Samu>became a merge
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14:16<Wolf01>I failed to raise my kitten, became a dog :D
14:16<andythenorth>fair comment
14:17<andythenorth>EMUs: same speed as DMUs, or same speed as electric pax engines?
14:17<andythenorth>[Horse has two speed classes - normal and express]
14:17<Wolf01>No, for real, it brings back what you throw and can be brought outside with a leash
14:19<nielsm>EMUs same speed as DMUs but better acceleration
14:19<andythenorth>nielsm: yeah that's what I coded
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14:20<Samu>how do i do a git push --force on visual studio?
14:21<Samu>team explorer
14:21<Samu>Sync wasn't it, turned out it was a merge
14:23*andythenorth builds in a BAD EGG
14:23<andythenorth>it's like a BAD FEATURE
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14:29<Samu>how do i delete a branch and leave no trace about it?
14:29<andythenorth>branch -D generally
14:29<andythenorth>but read the scm pages first
14:29<Samu>i was only experimenting
14:29<Samu>now i see some of my old deleted branches still listed as "deleted"
14:38<Samu> doesn't really delete my stuff
14:38<andythenorth>branch -D, force push
14:38<andythenorth>usually considered rude
14:38<andythenorth>but eh
14:38<Samu>it leaves it hiden somewhere, allowing me to restore later
14:39<Samu>it's stuff already implemented, so i dont need to keep these branches
14:40<Samu>Team Explorer on visual studio apparently deletes them for good
14:43<Samu> good, they're gone
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14:52<Samu>always commits ahead and commits behind :(
14:53<Samu>do I have to rebase everyday force -push all the time?
14:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145
14:55<LordAro>Samu: in practice, you only need to rebase when something else interferes with something that you've done
14:55<Samu>wow there's more ppl working on ship stuff
14:55<Samu>ah, i see
14:56<LordAro>i.e. if misc_gui.cpp has been modified in master, and you've been fiddling with pathfinders, they're unlikely to interfere
14:56<LordAro>but these interactions aren't easy to see in advance, so it's best practice to rebase often
14:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145
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14:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #6145: High CPU usage for ships with empty orders
14:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #6145: High CPU usage for ships with empty orders
14:57<Samu>those changes look scary as heck
14:57<Samu>rip ships
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14:58<LordAro>as an example, the above will definitely interfere with the stuff you've been playing with :)
14:59<+glx>and you also rebase if you need to add something to the PR, but rebase just to rebase is useless
14:59<Samu>if (v->dest_tile == 0 || DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5) { using distance manhattan like this is gonna be a disaster waiting to happen, but let me test
15:00<+glx>"add something" as a new commit, or an modified commit
15:00<LordAro>Samu: why do you think so?
15:00<LordAro>distance manhattan is a very simple calculation
15:00<Samu>the pathfinder may find a path that makes the ship move the opposite direction
15:01<+glx>yes if it's shorter
15:01<Samu>if the distancemanhattan check triggers.... rip ship
15:03<LordAro>it was discussed in the PR (or possibly here) - you already can't set orders further than SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE apart, so it shouldn't make any difference
15:04<LordAro>but you're welcome to test these things
15:04<LordAro>(or indeed, comment on PRs)
15:04<andythenorth>but the video here is awesome
15:06<LordAro>i am actually curious what would happen if you try to send to depot when the nearest depot is > 130 tiles away
15:07<andythenorth>easy to test
15:07<LordAro>*hopefully* it will say "cannot find depot", rather than just stopping the ship
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15:17<andythenorth>BAD EASTER
15:18*andythenorth realises simple things aren't simple :P
15:18<andythenorth>cb36 loops are banned for obvious reasons
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15:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement
15:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement
15:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement
15:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement
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16:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement
16:05<nielsm>most important purpose of the dev console in a browser: fixing pages with eye-searing styling
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16:06<nielsm>this OPL3 reference page (despite it being OPL2 this is programming) was blue background white text, and any time after reading for more than 10 seconds my eyes would blank over when I turned to something else
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16:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement
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16:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement
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16:27<+glx>ok mingw-w64 command line limit is 32000, the depand command with args but without source files is 8312, source files list is 25155
16:28<+glx>not surprising the command line is too long
16:29<+glx>and I filtered out all non -D from CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS
16:30-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>why would you even build a command line this huge and expect it to work?
16:30<+glx>makefile does it
16:30<LordAro>glx: i've not seen anything like that, how long are your paths?
16:31<+glx>not short
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16:31<+glx>399 files in the list ;)
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>not short, but also not excessively long
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>my "ancient DOS tricks" tells me you might want to try "subst" :p
16:33<+glx>I think I can use $(words) and friends to split in smaller parts
16:33<+glx>depend seems to have a -a flag for appending
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16:35<Eddi|zuHause>i would put my effort in trying to reduce the number of arguments
16:35<+glx>not possible
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>like calling it in a loop
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>once for each file
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>or something
16:36<nielsm>xargs does this afaik?
16:36<+glx>ha yes that's why I intended to use $(word) and $(wordlist)
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what abyss you're delving into, though
16:36<+glx>something like
16:37<LordAro>depend may want altering to use a file listing inputs or something
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, put the names into a file, and read that?
16:38<LordAro>it's the less hacky solution, anyway
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16:45<+glx>modifying depend could work, but as it's also possible to use makedepend it's not the solution
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16:55<Samu>just tested
16:55<Samu>it's not good
16:56<Samu>distance manhattan is the reason why pathfinders get lost
16:57<Samu>this ship i'm testing is currently not invoking the pathfinder
16:57<Samu>it is a miracle it still finds its way to destination
16:58<Samu>goes forward, reaches the map border, makes some turns, reaches the other map border, and it finally gets moving in a direction that will make the pathfinder be invoked again
16:58<nielsm>someone should be using more buoys
16:58<Samu>then it gets to its destination, after doing some weird turns
17:00<Samu>i'm not sure, it doesn't feel right
17:00<Samu>but yeah, buoys being the solution for ships :(
17:04<Samu>buoys could be abused :( but i kind of like the idea of buoys being a guidance for pathfinders
17:06<Samu>gonna try making buoys a negative penalty, essentially turning them into a bonus
17:07<LordAro>that's unlikely to improve pathfinder performance, if that's what you're trying
17:08<Samu>let me test
17:11<Samu>oh, it's a npf exclusive feature
17:11<Samu>very well
17:12<Samu>i thought yapf had it
17:13<Samu>doesn't let me add negative values
17:15<Samu>cost -=; // A small /*penalty */ bonus for going over buoys
17:15<Samu>let's see
17:16<nielsm>oh, I think I'm almost code complete for the adlib music decoder, except for a bunch of static tables I need to copy over
17:17<Samu>doesn't work
17:18<Samu>aystar asserts warning me that new_g > 0 failed
17:18<milek7>i commited git merge
17:18<milek7>and now i want to undo it and perform conflict resolution of single file again
17:20<milek7>but reset will obviously throw away all changes
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, modifying commits is rebase
17:20<LordAro>alternatively, reset --soft
17:21<LordAro>if the commit is still local
17:21<Samu>i use the recycle bin
17:21<Samu>and clone again
17:21<Samu>works everytime
17:21<LordAro>good ol' Samu
17:21<Samu>if i want to go back to stuff I had, i take it back from recycle bin
17:22<milek7>ok, maybe reset to before merge, start merge, checkout good files from new commit, resolve bad file and commit
17:23<LordAro>milek7: that's probably what i'd do
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>you don't need reset if you rebase
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>just carefully consider what the target of the rebase is
17:29<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: except in this case you're literally removing a commit, rebase isn't the right solution
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>in a rebase you can drop a commit
17:30<LordAro>you can, but eh
17:34<@peter1138>22:20 < milek7> but reset will obviously throw away all changes
17:34<@peter1138>^ it doesn't
17:36<milek7>it won't allow me to use merge with dirty working tree after soft/mixed, and i wanted to get file with conflict markers again
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17:39<nielsm>will it crash or burn, or will sound actually be produced???
17:39<nielsm>time to try it
17:39<nielsm>nothing happens :D
17:40<nielsm>at least nothing audible or visual
17:40<@peter1138>Samu, I didn't aim to improve pathfinder performance because that's a hard task. I aimed to prevent some situations that cause massive CPU usage from occuring. (But not all)
17:42<nielsm>yeah I forgot to call Start on the driver :P
17:45<Samu>just decreate max number of nodes
17:45<Samu>it's defaulted to 10000, maybe 5000? dunno
17:46<Samu>or maybe, an idea
17:46<Samu>have the pathfinder invoked on order insertion
17:47<Samu>let it decide whether destination is too far
17:49<Samu>would kill opf
17:49<LordAro>few would mourn its loss
17:50<@peter1138>So there is a remaining CPU hog issue.
17:51<@peter1138>Trying to find a path to a tile that is within the max distance but actually not reachable causes a hitch.
17:52<LordAro>presumably because it's searching the whole map?
17:52<@peter1138>I wonder how many new bug reports #6784 will cause :D
17:52<@peter1138>Not the whole map but enough. And it'll happen on every new tile.
17:53<@peter1138>Well, that's why ship pathfinding already sucks.
17:53<@peter1138>It happens on every new tile.
17:53<@peter1138>Hence I have a patch to cache paths, but it's very much WIP.
17:53<LordAro>that does seem inefficient
17:54<LordAro>i was thinking that it should cache paths, then follow them until there's something in the way
17:55<@peter1138> < "solves" a lot
17:55<nielsm>if it's within range but no path could be found, set a counter that indicates "temporarily lost" and random walk until that counter reaches zero?
17:55<nielsm>and/or send a news message
17:55<LordAro>would still cause a hitch every n tiles
17:55<@peter1138>It spreads the load out, so you don't get 5000 pathfinding attempts in one tick.
17:56<LordAro>some sort of limit on the pathfinder would work
17:56<@peter1138>There's a distance limit already, iirc.
17:56<@peter1138>Or at least, there is now :)
17:56<Samu>have you tried my ship pathfinding depot stuff yet?
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>the main problem with the ship pathfinder is the large number of near-identical paths
17:57<@peter1138>Hmm, yes, if it's with-in range, I'm not sure how far the pathfinder will actually go.
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>the second problem is that it is repeated on every tile, as every tile is a junction
17:57<LordAro>peter1138: yeah, referring to your "within range but unreachable" case
17:57<@peter1138>Yeah, sorry, sidetracked.
17:58<@peter1138>Hmm, we could do with a way to cancel a "Manage list" -> "Send to Depot" command.
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>and "no path exists" is always the worst case for a pathfinder
17:59<@peter1138>I think my changes my scupper Samu's testing :p
18:00<Samu>i like the idea of caching path
18:00<@peter1138>That's what I asked you to attempt to do last year.
18:00<Samu>keep working on it, it was also something I had in mind, but with limited code skills I didn't bother
18:00<@peter1138>I think it did actually sort of work, but kept crashing.
18:03<LordAro>i think pathfinder limit of x5 order length limit would work? (i.e. if the points are at max distance: )
18:03*LordAro is better at paint than andy
18:04<@peter1138>Just make ships behave like triremes in civilization. If they get lost, they actually get lost, and disappear...
18:05<@peter1138>o_O ... this patch adds a std::stack<Trackdir> path to struct Ship.
18:05<@peter1138>Well I can try it :)
18:05<LordAro>well, depends on its usage :p
18:09<nielsm>okay well, now it does _something_:
18:09<Samu>er, i made a review, maybe i wanted to post single comment, my bad
18:09<nielsm>as the name says, it's very original
18:09<LordAro>Samu: is fine either way
18:09<@peter1138>Nice tremolo attect.
18:09<LordAro>Samu: you do have to submit the review though
18:09<@peter1138>I only had one pint, I don't think it's alcohol making me typo.
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, "ad libitum" means "do what you want" :p
18:10<LordAro>nielsm: well it's not complete garbage :p
18:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145
18:10<Samu>ah there it is
18:10<nielsm>LordAro, ship it?
18:10<@peter1138>Little bit late after it's been merged.
18:10<LordAro>nielsm: damn right
18:11<LordAro>Samu: commenting on merged PRs is rarely worthwhile
18:11<LordAro>possibly better off making an issue
18:11<@peter1138>Open an issue referencing the PR.
18:12<nielsm>pushed to my adlib-music branch :3
18:12<nielsm>and now I see the time is past midnight
18:12<@peter1138>push early, push often
18:12<@peter1138>It's not, it's 23:12
18:13<nielsm>it's later than I ought to be in bed
18:13<@peter1138>Pfft, have a cup of tea. It's your witching hour, where good ideas come to fruition.
18:13<@peter1138>I'm cheating, I have fennel tea.
18:14*LordAro looks at his mug
18:14<LordAro>oh hey, still some tea in here
18:14*LordAro necks it
18:14<LordAro>mm, stone cold tea
18:14<@peter1138>I must remember to not actually drink caffeine after, say, 2 or 3pm.
18:14<@peter1138>Weirdly, stone cold tea isn't too bad to drink *when you're expecting it*
18:15<LordAro>that's probably how i'd describe it :p
18:15<LordAro>i have a tendency to forget my tea
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>call it "ice tea"?
18:16<@peter1138>Iced tea with... milk. Hmm...
18:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7062: Ship wasn't lost in 1.8.0
18:16<@peter1138>LordAro, same. Especially as I have a bucket mugg too.
18:16<Samu>sorry, i'm terrible at using the website
18:17<LordAro>Samu: use your words
18:17<LordAro>that issue doesn't say anything at all
18:17*peter1138 ponders replying to #7062, or playing Minecraft.
18:17<LordAro>and relies on context that's only here
18:17<@peter1138>Wow, yeah, that's terrible.
18:17<LordAro>Samu: the detail you use when responding to comments on your PRs is excellent, use that
18:17<Samu>i dont know how to link stuff with each other
18:18<@peter1138>No need to link. Just write text.
18:18<@peter1138>Add some detail
18:18<@peter1138>Where were you trying to do. What happened. What did you expect?
18:18<LordAro> but also this
18:19<@peter1138>Oh it's raining in Minecraft :/
18:19<@peter1138>And your title is bogus.
18:19<@peter1138>It should say what is happening now, not what wasn't happening in some older version.
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>for some reason when it's raining in minecraft i have the urge to go fishing
18:20<@peter1138>You realise I literally just picked up my fishing rod...
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>i pulled a crazy good bow out with the fishing rod
18:21<Samu>i'm blocked, can't think properly
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>and after updating beyond 1.8 i could even repair it
18:22<@peter1138>I'm always on latest release.
18:22<Samu>is this a better edit?
18:23<LordAro>still needs more detail
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>well, that was the latest release back then
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>i don't play often
18:25<Samu>i think im gonna copy paste irc text
18:25<Samu>can't think properly
18:25<LordAro>Samu: pictures are more helpful than savegames as well
18:27<LordAro>well, sometimes
18:27<LordAro>not to say that the savegame isn't useful
18:28<@peter1138>Damn it, I keep picking up... fish.
18:28<@peter1138>Oh and two water bottles. Nothing interesting :(
18:32<Samu>some of the AIs in this situation would mass even more ships
18:32<Samu>Trans or otvi
18:32<Samu>they would all be lost
18:35<Samu>because there's more cargo waiting at stations
18:35<Samu>when the ship comes back, it reinvokes the pathfinder
18:36<Samu>and gets lost again
18:37<Samu>thx for the edit LardAro
18:39<Samu>the only solution is path cache
18:40<Samu>(i think)
18:40<Samu>a means to avoid pathfinder being called every tile
18:42<LordAro>as well as removing the manhattan check, i can see that working
18:42<LordAro>caching the paths would improve things generally
18:44<@peter1138>The issue is actually that the orders should be invalid.
18:44<@peter1138>Buoys are necessary.
18:45<@peter1138>22:46 < Samu> have the pathfinder invoked on order insertion
18:45<@peter1138>Would help...
18:46<@peter1138>But not if the map is changed later.
18:46<@peter1138>The ship is lost because its destination is too far. You need buoys.
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18:47<LordAro>peter1138: but if the order was valid beforehand...
18:47<LordAro>it would be a shame to break saves like that
18:47<@peter1138>It's not valid, it just worked because we didn't check properly.
18:48<@peter1138>Of course you can remove that check, but then you get performance hits again.
18:48*LordAro is reminded of a Linus "never break userland" rant
18:49<Samu>it does comes back into range only to have the pathfinder make him lost again
18:49<Samu>so, buoys :(
18:51<@peter1138>Were always necessary in this situation
18:51<Samu>nop, it's not lost in 1.8.0
18:51<@peter1138>Not what I meant.
18:51<LordAro>peter1138: well, they were only necessary because of the bad pathfinder
18:52<Samu>i think the savegame is 1.8.0 compatible
18:53<@peter1138>LordAro, of course, in this particular map the pathfinder wouldn't have too much trouble.
18:53<@peter1138>Open spaces of water is the issue.
18:54<LordAro>how hard would it be to make the pathfinder prefer the shoreline?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>how would that help anyone?
18:54<Samu>with costs, it's doable, somehow
18:55<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: less open spaces of water
18:55<Samu>but then it would have to detect coast tiles
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't reduce the search space
18:55<Samu>do more checks every tile
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>just make it find worse paths
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>to reduce the search space across open water, you could try to merge tiles into 2^n square superblocks that contain no obstacles
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>store the size of the superblock in the tile
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>upon changing water (clearing, flooding), invalidate the nearby superblocks, and recalculate
19:00<@peter1138>There is m8 now, heh.
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>superblocks are also 2^n-aligned
19:00<@peter1138>But not much use for narrow paths, such as canals.
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>canals are not the problem
19:00<@peter1138>Oh, true.
19:00<@peter1138>PR it ;)
19:02<@peter1138>I can probably do the superblock marks, but no idea how to plug that into the pathfinder.
19:02<LordAro>press buttons until it works
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>a superblock is just a more complicated follow_track function, as you have more entry and exit points
19:03<@peter1138>Also your superblocks could potentially have dozens of exits and entrances.
19:03<@peter1138>And the cost would differ depending on where you start.
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>but all the internal paths can be ignored
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>you can calculate the cost based on entry and exit direction
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>because you know all the tiles inbetween are empty
19:04<LordAro>(and distance)
19:04<Samu>could pathfinding be multi-threaded?
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>you need some idea how to combine all the touching tiles between two superblocks
19:05<@peter1138>Samu, no.
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>but that could be an optimisation on top, it probably is already an improvement even if you consider every possible connection between 2 superblocks individually
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>sidenote: i don't think you need m8, water should have plenty of free bits
19:08<@peter1138>True, it's only clear water.
19:11<@peter1138>Hmm, you could perhaps extend it to rectangular superblocks.
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but that makes checking/storing it more tricky
19:12<@peter1138>Although that complicates path lengths I guess.
19:12<@peter1138>Does it?
19:12<@peter1138>Still 2^ aligned, just separate x/y.
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>that might work
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>but it might not help much, and you have potential conflicts whether to extend in x or y direction
19:25<Samu>gonna experiment making it pathfind every other tile
19:26<Samu>(DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5) & 1
19:30<Samu>erm, i'm doing it wrong
19:32<Samu>if (v->dest_tile == 0 || DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5 && DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) & 1) {
19:33<@peter1138>NPF works properly. It can't find a path between the two docks :p
19:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7062: Ship becomes lost if destination is greater than maximum order distance
19:37<Samu>oh lol, ship is lost... no, nop, it's not lost, wait, it's lost again
19:38<Samu>no, not lost
19:38<@peter1138>If you actually only want to pathfind less frequently, you can do that a better way.
19:38<@peter1138>(DistanceManhattan not involved)
19:39<Samu>doesn't work well, just tested, ship still doesn't go to where it should
19:40<@peter1138>If you don't pathfind, you have to assume a direction to continue in.
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19:41<@peter1138>(Or, indeed, cache the path)
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19:50<Samu>(DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) & 3) == 0
19:50<Samu>this almost works
19:50<Samu>ship still does weird stuff at times but...
19:50<@peter1138>You're barking up the wrong tree.
19:50<Samu>it finds it's way
19:50<Samu>ok :(
19:50<@peter1138>It's still wrong.
19:52<Samu>what to do?
19:54<Samu> if (v->dest_tile == 0 || DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5 && Random() & 1) {
19:56<Samu>it works, but yeah, it's wrong lol
19:56<Samu>never know how random is random
19:57<Samu>rellying on random to improve pathfinder speed
19:57<Samu>erm, cpu hog
20:02<Samu>this might actually be a "good enough" solution? let me try the 5000 ship savegame
20:03<Samu>i suspect it too be either too spiky or too smooth
20:07<Samu>hmm the ships look rather dumb
20:08<Samu>doesn't look that good to the eye
20:11<Samu>5000 ships, on a 1024x1024 map with lots of water, fast forwarding at 52 fps, not too bad imo
20:12<Samu>quite irregular, ranges 50-70
20:16<Samu>testing without randomness
20:20<Samu>getting the same fps which is strage
20:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nikolas opened pull request #19: typo fix: idillic -> idyllic
20:25<Samu>i think it may be worth trying the && Random() & 1
20:25<Samu>after the distance check
20:26<Samu>track choice when it fails could be improved somewhat
20:26<@peter1138>It continues in the current direction.
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20:28<Samu>if it goes vertical or horizontal against a coast, it could make a 45 degree turn
20:28<Samu>instead of being forced to reverse
20:29<Samu>depends on coast direction too I suppose
20:32<Samu>i'm off to bed, take care
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20:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7063: Fix: deps calculation call could fail due to command line length
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 15 00:00:21 2019