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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-01-19

---Logopened Sat Jan 19 00:00:27 2019
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00:53-!-HerzogDeXtEr is "purple" on #openttd
02:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fh0Yl
02:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN dismissed a review for pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fh03F
02:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEPu
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03:12-!-nielsm is "Niels Martin Hansen" on #openttd
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03:13<andythenorth>o/
03:16<nielsm>morning
03:17-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@84.117.88.126] has joined #openttd
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03:21<@peter1138>Hi
03:22<andythenorth>so shall I use duck tape?
03:22<@peter1138>Yes.
03:23<andythenorth>or shall I stop doing python wrong?
03:23<@peter1138>Time to get ready for bike ride.
03:23*andythenorth testing some random ship patch
03:27<andythenorth>so does it cache dir until the next project turn point?
03:27*andythenorth didn't read the code
03:28<andythenorth>I'm just bulldozing tiles in front of hovercraft to see how it reacts
03:30<@peter1138>No, it caches up to 32 tiles.
03:32<@peter1138>I just drank a soft drink with 145 kcal in it o_O
03:33<@peter1138>Should give me a boost for starting the ride at least, until I crash have way through.
03:33<andythenorth>:P
03:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEXF
03:39<andythenorth>so....manually refactor 75 .py files?
03:39<andythenorth>to do things correctly
03:39<andythenorth>or plaster some more @property methods into a single module?
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03:40<andythenorth>I think we know the answer :(
03:40<Wolf01>o/
03:46<@peter1138>andythenorth, oh, and michi_cc already approved it but I decided to fix some comments ;p
03:46<andythenorth>ok
03:47<andythenorth>so is deleting OPF next? :P
03:47<@peter1138>:D
03:47<@peter1138>I'm off, see you.
03:49<andythenorth>@seen alberth
03:49<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: alberth was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 13 hours, 4 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Alberth> o/
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03:55-!-Progman is "Peter Henschel" on #openttdcoop.dev #openttd
04:07<TrueBrain>that moment that the Azure Pipelines changelog says something is changed, but it isn't .. hmmm
04:08<andythenorth>yo TrueBrain
04:09<TrueBrain>hi
04:10<andythenorth>today might be tax return filing day
04:10<andythenorth>such glamour
04:10<TrueBrain>\o/
04:11<TrueBrain>hmm .. more changes from that changelog are not available .. so .. how do I know when it is .. hmm
04:13<TrueBrain>"These features will roll out over the next two to three weeks."
04:13<TrueBrain>so yeah .. that is a useless changelog :D
04:13<andythenorth>:|
04:14<TrueBrain>one of the improvements is that GitHub will deny any Pull Request to work, I think :P
04:14<TrueBrain>so that will be interesting :D
04:20<TrueBrain>meh; wanted to work to publish a nightly ... but I need orudge again to press a button :(
04:20<TrueBrain>annoying Marketplaces
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04:28-!-tokai is "Christian Rosentreter" on +#openttd
04:31<andythenorth>oof I already wrapped 50% of these files in main() :P
04:31*andythenorth rediscovers previous mistakes
04:31<TrueBrain>:D History tends to repeat itself
04:31<andythenorth>I should have fixed 100% of them last time :P
04:35-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:38<TrueBrain>so why didnt you? :P
04:47<TrueBrain>meh; guess that means I should solve the 2 remaining items for the website
04:47<TrueBrain>bah :P
04:59<andythenorth>oof
04:59<andythenorth>also can we close some issues? :P
04:59<andythenorth>and maybe some PRs
05:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEyL
05:09<andythenorth>\o/
05:10*andythenorth has fewer python modules doing magic on import
05:10<andythenorth>probably better
05:11<andythenorth>meh, doesn't actually fix my problem :P
05:11<LordAro>moin
05:12<nielsm>nice! got timing to work in my reworked ttd dos music player (that drives the original driver code)
05:14<andythenorth>:)
05:15<Wolf01>https://www.commitstrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Strip-Daily-meeting-english650-finalV2.jpg totally what is ottd now :P
05:16<andythenorth>except there's no risk committee
05:16<andythenorth>we should totally get one
05:31<andythenorth>TrueBrain: think I'm closing these, unless you say not https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7071 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7070
05:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #10: Auto-detect most likely download https://git.io/fhEyh
05:31<TrueBrain>andythenorth: something for frosch to judge; I have no clue what the state of the PFs are
05:31<andythenorth>k
05:32<andythenorth>I'll wait
05:32<nielsm>imo OPF should be "as close to original behaviour as possible, warts and all"
05:32<nielsm>and the new ones can be extended and improved
05:33<TrueBrain>one more dev to agree, and close them up :)
05:33<TrueBrain>so LordAro, you agree? :P
05:33<LordAro>probably, yes
05:33<LordAro>i'd be tempted to remove OPF entirely, tbh
05:34<andythenorth>so is peter
05:34<andythenorth>I think we should bonfire a few things
05:34<andythenorth>not everything
05:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7070: Feature: Forbid 90 degrees for OPF https://git.io/fhESU
05:34<LordAro>andythenorth: like aircraft
05:34<LordAro>no one uses them
05:34<andythenorth>well
05:34<andythenorth>maybe in your patchpack :P
05:34<TrueBrain>so close them up andythenorth
05:35<TrueBrain>clearly this is the new rule now :)
05:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed pull request #7071: Change: Make OPF check reverse only when exiting depot https://git.io/fhRNP
05:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7071: Change: Make OPF check reverse only when exiting depot https://git.io/fhESL
05:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7070: Feature: Forbid 90 degrees for OPF https://git.io/fhESt
05:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed pull request #7070: Feature: Forbid 90 degrees for OPF https://git.io/fhRwt
05:36<andythenorth>LordAro: mergy mcmergeface? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7072
05:36<LordAro>i feel coerced
05:36<LordAro>but once i've looked at it, sure :P
05:37<andythenorth>TrueBrain: do we have a sufficient GDPR declaration for UA parsing?
05:37<andythenorth>should I read it?
05:37<nielsm>andythenorth, copying my comments! INFRINGEMENT!!!
05:37<nielsm>;)
05:37<TrueBrain>GDPR for UA parsing .. that is a first :P
05:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhESO
05:37<TrueBrain>are we a data processor now? :D
05:37<andythenorth>we're a controler
05:37<andythenorth>controller *
05:38<TrueBrain>anyway, fully client-side
05:38<andythenorth>UA parsing is a proper issue, possibly more so than cookies
05:38<andythenorth>anyway, I read privacy policy, I think we're ok
05:38<andythenorth>legitimate purpose, already declared
05:38<TrueBrain>it is fully client-side; so are we the controller? :)
05:38<andythenorth>we're causing it to happen
05:38<TrueBrain>what to happen?
05:38<andythenorth>processing
05:38<andythenorth>blah blah no case law
05:39<nielsm>but not collecting
05:39<TrueBrain>this is really stretching the idea of GDPR :P
05:39<andythenorth>yeah ok, client side risk is tin foil
05:39<TrueBrain>like .. realllllyyyyyy stretching :D
05:39<andythenorth>but we know what binary we served them?
05:39<nielsm>as far as I know, if the data (or a derivative of it) is not being collected it's not an issue
05:39<andythenorth>so we can deduce the result of UA
05:39<andythenorth>so we can infer personal details in combination
05:39<TrueBrain>nooooo?
05:39<andythenorth>ok
05:39<andythenorth>tinfoil even over
05:39<andythenorth>event *
05:39<TrueBrain>you smoking too much paranoia today? :P
05:40<andythenorth>no just checking
05:40<nielsm>https://0x0.st/shIc.webm it works!
05:40<TrueBrain>yes, we store how often which binary is downloaded
05:40<TrueBrain>but we only count
05:40<TrueBrain>so .. yeah .. no
05:40<andythenorth>no IP addresses in logs?
05:40<TrueBrain>in logs, sure
05:40<TrueBrain>but that is a completely different thing
05:40<andythenorth>onwards!
05:40<TrueBrain>we store logs for debugging purposes for a very limited amount of time
05:41<andythenorth>there's a specific recital in GDPR for that
05:41<andythenorth>2018 about 30% of my time was spent in GFDPR :P
05:41<andythenorth>the F is not a typo
05:41<TrueBrain>you are not alone, no worries :)
05:42<andythenorth>at the end of that work, zero had changed about the data we process or control, but there was a lot of papework completed :P
05:42<andythenorth>i.e. we weren't doing anything we shouldn't, but lots of trees died
05:43<TrueBrain>I think it is really good companies took a good look internally how they process data
05:43<TrueBrain>we took it too much for granted we could do what-ever-the-fuck-we-wanted with data
05:43<TrueBrain>I have seen many companies that had no way to scrub data
05:44<TrueBrain>or had no retention
05:44<TrueBrain>and all that kind of shit
05:44<TrueBrain>(like seriously .. they had customers that left their company 10 years ago still on record)
05:44<TrueBrain>"but if they come back we still have their data" .. yeah .. exactly
05:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #20: Add: detect based on User-Agent which download the user wants most likely https://git.io/fhESC
05:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened issue #21: Staging doesn't support IPv6 https://git.io/fhESR
05:49<TrueBrain>guess the rest of my day will be SysOp'ing to fix IPv6 and server-listing ..
05:49<TrueBrain>ALMOST there
05:50<LordAro>hype
05:51<TrueBrain>just that the IPv6 issue is kinda annoying to fix :D
05:52<TrueBrain>IPv4 is served via a LoadBalancer, and downloads will be edge-cached via a CDN
05:52<andythenorth>interesting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Apr+review%3Aapproved+is%3Aopen
05:52<TrueBrain>and IPv6? It will enter a single machine, that forwards to the IPv4 infrastructure :P
05:52<LordAro>that's not great
05:53<TrueBrain>I have no other idea how to solve it currently :)
05:53<TrueBrain>our current IPv6 is the same btw, as is our current IPv4
05:53<TrueBrain>so I guess I am improving 90% of the visits :P
05:53<TrueBrain>and I should not worry about the 10% :D
06:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andythenorth approved pull request #20: Add: detect based on User-Agent which download the user wants most likely https://git.io/fhES9
06:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhESH
06:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhE93
06:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhE9n
06:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhE9u
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06:27<nielsm>nice, my silly toy also works with other music drivers (e.g. general midi/mpu-401 one) and TTO
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07:11<TrueBrain>tnx orudge`
07:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #20: Add: detect based on User-Agent which download the user wants most likely https://git.io/fhESC
07:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed issue #10: Auto-detect most likely download https://git.io/fhOML
07:15*andythenorth wonders about drawing a tech tree with graphviz
07:15<andythenorth>based on the 'role' here http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html
07:17<TrueBrain>that moment you are being asked for a code that will be emailed to you, but that ends up in greylisting
07:17<TrueBrain>"account security"
07:17<TrueBrain>ugh
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07:19<TrueBrain>morning frosch123
07:19<frosch123>hoi
07:19<frosch123>i converted the eints repo
07:20<frosch123>not sure what to call the repository on github: eints, webtranslator, WebTranslator?
07:20<TrueBrain>its eints, not?
07:20<TrueBrain>I am fine with what-ever btw :)
07:23<milek7>greylisting should die
07:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEHA
07:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEHp
07:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEQU
07:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEQk
07:30<@peter1138>Oops, spam.
07:30<LordAro>there's no way around it, when replying to individual review comments
07:30<TrueBrain>https://openttd.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/openttd-nightlies/20190118-master-g07a40df9/changelog.txt
07:30<LordAro>peter1138: how was cycling?
07:31<TrueBrain>slowly getting there ..
07:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEQq
07:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #6990: Fix: Correct display of industry requires/produces in Build Industry window https://git.io/fhTef
07:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #6928: Fix #5713: Use pathfinder to find closest ship depot https://git.io/fxbLs
07:36<frosch123>andythenorth: planetmaker: https://github.com/frosch123/eints <- any comments before i move it to openttd? note: there are two branches "master" and "openttd"
07:37<nielsm>(I will not approve that PR, someone else will have to do that if anyone wants it)
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07:40<TrueBrain>frosch123: possibly you constantly want to squash the changes in the openttd branch
07:41<TrueBrain>so it is one or two commits
07:41<TrueBrain>making it clear what the diff is
07:41<frosch123>rebase instead of merge?
07:41<TrueBrain>no, rebase instead of multiple commits
07:41<TrueBrain>and you need to rebase the openttd branch on master btw :) It is missing a README now :P
07:42<TrueBrain>frosch123: what I mean, you have master, and 'openttd', which is master with a few adjustments, right?
07:42<TrueBrain>I suggest to have openttd as close as possible to master; so squash as many as you can
07:42<frosch123>yes, but up to now there are no history changes in "openttd", lots of merge commits
07:43<TrueBrain>yeah; those will be gone with that too :D
07:43<TrueBrain>it is because I do not think the history of the openttd branch is really important
07:43<TrueBrain>but that is just my 2 cents here :)
07:44<frosch123>all your contributions were to that branch :p
07:45<@peter1138>LordAro, cold!
07:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN dismissed a review for pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEyL
07:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fh0Yl
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07:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEQx
07:56<andythenorth>frosch123: no comments from me 👍
07:57<@planetmaker>moin
07:58<@planetmaker>frosch123, I've no objection moving that repo to github
07:59<@planetmaker>actually... its description is outdated. It's not only NewGRF translations. It's the main translation service for this whole community
07:59<@planetmaker>but that is not a repo issue :)
08:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhE7m
08:00<@peter1138>"error pulling image configuration: received unexpected HTTP status: 502 Bad Gateway."
08:00<@peter1138>:/
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08:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhEFv
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08:43<TrueBrain>andythenorth: https://www.staging.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-nightlies/latest.html < -does it autoselect OSX for you?
08:44<andythenorth>TrueBrain: yes
08:44<andythenorth>want me to try windows?
08:45<TrueBrain>nah; I tested win64, that looks fine
08:51<TrueBrain>okay, I can now set content-type on my uploads ... getting there :D
08:58<TrueBrain>https://openttd.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/openttd-nightlies/20190118-master-g07a40df9/openttd-20190118-master-g07a40df9-macosx.zip <- long ass URL :D
08:59<TrueBrain>next step ... make this available via the website
08:59<TrueBrain>hmm
09:07<TrueBrain>now I remember why we had media.openttd.org .. as multiple subdomains uses the same CSS etc
09:07<TrueBrain>interesting
09:07<TrueBrain>andythenorth: how are we going to solve that part?
09:08<TrueBrain>guess a submodule used by everything that has the same style or something
09:08<andythenorth>absolute css paths?
09:09<andythenorth>or vendor in the css to the repo
09:09<andythenorth>or a subrepo
09:09<TrueBrain>so back to media.openttd.org :P
09:09<andythenorth>overkill imo :P
09:09<andythenorth>but eh
09:09<TrueBrain>currently I want to add an index.html to the CDN
09:09<TrueBrain>so if you go there, you can see in pretty ways the files available
09:09<TrueBrain>but ... I have no real way to reference the CSS atm :)
09:09<andythenorth>I would just treat that as subsidiary to the website, and absolute url to the website css url
09:10<TrueBrain>the nice thing about putting the CSS and images on the CDN too, that it is a lot faster
09:10<andythenorth>all the available ways are fine
09:10<TrueBrain>(edge caching ftw)
09:10<andythenorth>I honestly just copy-paste css around for this situation, if left to solve it alone
09:11<TrueBrain>the images are more the issue; have you seen how many we have :P
09:11<andythenorth>there are usually so few cases, it's not worth much engineering for
09:11<TrueBrain>and LordAro is not fixing it any time soon I am afraid :P
09:11<andythenorth>oof, images :P
09:11<andythenorth>ok so the downside of CDN is that it makes dev fricking hard
09:11<andythenorth>cos the css isn't trivially changed
09:11<TrueBrain>and they need to be versionized
09:11<andythenorth>but eh, let's not over-engineer it, whatever we do :P
09:12<andythenorth>only 44 images, mostly junk
09:12<TrueBrain>most can be replaced with CSS
09:12<LordAro>oh, that thing
09:12<LordAro>i could look at PRing it this weekend
09:13<LordAro>TrueBrain: did we not decide on "OpenTTD YYYYMMDD" for nightlies? or is the above link just temporary?
09:13<andythenorth>I copy-paste a UI library for other similar situations, but I rely on me knowing to do that
09:13<TrueBrain>LordAro: we decided on what is on the CDN
09:13<andythenorth>not everyone is me :P
09:14<TrueBrain>LordAro: the final conclusion was that 'master' is just a branch. If you want a nightly of any other branch, that should be possible too
09:14<LordAro>hrm
09:14<LordAro>not sure i agreed with that
09:14<LordAro>¯\_(ツ)_/¯
09:14<TrueBrain>we are NOT going to open this debate again :)
09:16<LordAro>:/
09:16<TrueBrain>(as if OpenTTD ever only moved if things were unanimous, we never moved at all :P)
09:17<TrueBrain>andythenorth: it is a bit of a pickle .. embedding images/CSS is also not really simplistic :D
09:17<andythenorth>this one is never easily solved
09:17<andythenorth>meanwhile, I hate this github dashboard
09:17<andythenorth>the LinkedIn-ification has started
09:17<andythenorth>'discover repositories you might be interested in'
09:17<andythenorth>'nope'
09:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on issue #7062: Ship pathfinders ignore the max order distance https://git.io/fhEb6
09:25<TrueBrain>LordAro: https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/openttd/2019/01/06#15:07 <- for your readback pleasure; feel free to rechallenge this in a few weeks ;)
09:26<TrueBrain>this is ANNOYING .. stupid CSS/images
09:27<TrueBrain>how else am I going to do this .. hmm
09:27<andythenorth>all the available routes are compromised
09:27<andythenorth>I would do the one with least change
09:27<TrueBrain>so, just to summarize what I am trying to do:
09:27<TrueBrain>I now publish the binaries on the CDN
09:27<TrueBrain>the CDN has no dir-listing; only bucket-listing
09:28<TrueBrain>so there is a manifest.yaml per release that tells which files are there
09:28<TrueBrain>currently, 'website' loads those manifest.yaml, and generate the HTML for it
09:28<TrueBrain>that is now possible, as I can list all the releases that exist
09:28<TrueBrain>on the CDN, not so much
09:28<TrueBrain>so I was thinking of generating the html file while uploading to the CDN
09:28<TrueBrain>as it will never change anyway
09:29<TrueBrain>now the 'website' only needs to point to there, and we are done (which is easy, as the URLs are predictable)
09:29<TrueBrain>but ... css/images are annoying there
09:29<TrueBrain>soooooooooo ... what else is there
09:30<andythenorth>- inline all the css and images (convert to inline styles, I am serious)
09:30<TrueBrain>we can put the static files in a submodule, and publish every commit there under 'media.openttd.org' based on the 'git describe'
09:30<TrueBrain>or even publish the static files from 'website' on the CDN every commit
09:31<TrueBrain>I can add .txt files with the needed content to harvest all information
09:31<TrueBrain>but that means I first need to download a file, amend to it, upload again
09:31<TrueBrain>which .. I prefer not to
09:32<TrueBrain>regenerate all the html files on the CDN every time a new 'website' commit happens :D
09:33<andythenorth>regenerating seems fine
09:33<andythenorth>if it's not loads of engineering
09:33<TrueBrain>~5000 files need regeneration
09:33<TrueBrain>that is not out of the question
09:34<TrueBrain>just a bit of bandwidth, but also not crazy
09:34<andythenorth>sounds like it might scale horribly
09:34<TrueBrain>1 new file every day
09:34<TrueBrain>so meh
09:35<andythenorth>hmm
09:35*andythenorth must kill some mice
09:35<andythenorth>need to buy poison and traps
09:35<andythenorth>BBL
09:35<TrueBrain>lol
09:35<TrueBrain>that is .. random :D
09:35<andythenorth>mouse in my house
09:35<andythenorth>at least one
09:35<andythenorth>if not more
09:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7066: Add: [NewGRF] Airport animation trigger for plane landing (#6334, patch by Supercheese) https://git.io/fhENJ
09:36<andythenorth>\o/
09:36<nielsm>I had mice in my 3rd floor apartment last winter and the two winters before that as well
09:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7066: Add: [NewGRF] Airport animation trigger for plane landing (#6334, patch by Supercheese) https://git.io/fhliz
09:36<andythenorth>mice are unwanted
09:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #6334: Airports: add new airport tile animation trigger AAT_STATION_AIRPLANE_LAND https://git.io/fhENU
09:37<TrueBrain>do we keep stats who is doing to most merges? :P
09:38<TrueBrain>hmm, custom domains doesn't work yet for DigitalOcean spaces
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09:51<TrueBrain>LordAro: did you have plans to use SaSS instead of CSS, or will it still be plain CSS?
09:51<LordAro>plain css, as i recall
09:51<TrueBrain>works for me
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09:54<TrueBrain>hmm .. Jekyll doesn't see a difference between 'static' files and generated ones
09:54<TrueBrain>so you cannot move static files to a CDN, for example
09:54<TrueBrain>at least, not what I can find :(
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10:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
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10:04<TrueBrain>ha, found a way :D
10:09<Samu>oh no, my stuff was closed
10:12<Samu>not even the 90 degrees
10:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
10:14*andythenorth wants a scriptable UI :P
10:14<andythenorth>for newgrf dev, I want the defaults:
10:14<andythenorth>- give me £100m
10:14<andythenorth>- let me toggle expiring vehicles on/off, and reload_newgrfs
10:14<andythenorth>- let me see the base vehicles :P
10:14<andythenorth>OTOH I never use the scriptable UI in *any* of the apps I have that support it :P
10:18<TrueBrain>lol
10:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
10:21<TrueBrain>this is one hard change to test before pushing it to staging :D
10:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
10:33<HeyCitizen>https://imgur.com/a/7q3CDYV
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10:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
10:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
10:38<TrueBrain>last one, I think :)
10:38<TrueBrain>tnx for the nice image HeyCitizen :)
10:40<HeyCitizen>:)
10:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
10:46<TrueBrain>yippie, works :D
10:47<andythenorth>:D
10:47<TrueBrain>andythenorth: what do you think about this solution?
10:48<andythenorth>makes sense to me
10:48<andythenorth>go to prod with it, we can find out what we regret
10:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
10:49<TrueBrain>I tested it as much as I could; seems to work fine
10:49<TrueBrain>as in: https://openttd-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/static-0.0.0-93-g371466d/css/base.css
10:49<TrueBrain>works :)
10:50<TrueBrain>andythenorth: if you can give it a review, just to look for very obvious mistakes, that would be good :)
10:51<andythenorth>sure
10:51<TrueBrain>local development is unchanged; it is just the CI/CD that do tricks now :)
10:51<TrueBrain>I like that
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10:55<TrueBrain>hmm .. we should run minimizers over static files :D
10:55<TrueBrain>but that is something for another day :P
10:57<TrueBrain>owh, bah
10:57<TrueBrain>this is not going to work :(
10:57<TrueBrain>no IPv6 support on the CDN
10:57<TrueBrain>dammit
10:57<TrueBrain>ugh
10:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #22: Minor cleanups and move static files to CDN https://git.io/fhEAr
10:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andythenorth approved pull request #22: Minor cleanups and move static files to CDN https://git.io/fhEpC
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10:59<Samu>I'm sad
10:59<TrueBrain>till DO fixes IPv6 on Spaces, I cannot do these kind of tricks
11:00<TrueBrain>guess I have to go a bit more old-fashion ..
11:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #22: Minor cleanups https://git.io/fhEAr
11:02<TrueBrain>tnx andythenorth
11:02<Samu>what to do now? :(
11:03<LordAro>Samu: last i checked several of your other PRs needed work/responses
11:05<Samu>hmm, which ones
11:06<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls/SamuXarick
11:16<Samu>I need help here, but I guess nobody understood yet what I'm trying to fix
11:17<Samu>so, hmm I am waiting
11:22<Samu>in sum, i need an order expert
11:22<TrueBrain>https://openttd.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/openttd-nightlies/listing.txt <- lowtech it is :D
11:24<Samu>someone who knows how to determine which location the vehicles goes next and the location the vehicle was before that
11:25<Samu>I didn't look at the case of conditional orders, I'm too scared to even try
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11:34<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6926
11:34<Samu>on that one, i disagree with nielsmh
11:35<Samu>because, why not?
11:36<TrueBrain>2 choices: convince him (in that Pull Request) otherwise, or remove that part of the PR
11:36<TrueBrain>he does not have to convince you; you him :)
11:37<TrueBrain>andythenorth: the new version number doesn't fit in the box in the top of the website :D
11:38<andythenorth>url, or it didn't happen :P
11:38<TrueBrain>no URL yet :P
11:38<andythenorth>pedal faster
11:38<andythenorth>I guess I could pull :P
11:39<andythenorth>I'm drawing pixels and arguing with children currently though
11:40<TrueBrain>nothing to pull :)
11:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhEjR
11:42<TrueBrain>Samu: that is NOT convincing anyone of anything
11:42<TrueBrain>doing something "because" is never a good argument
11:42<TrueBrain>explain why you want that change, why you think it is important
11:42<Samu>because it's bugged
11:42<TrueBrain>"because" is the worst argument, and one you can never win :)
11:42<TrueBrain>tell that in the pull request!
11:42<TrueBrain>and not just that, why YOU think it is bugged
11:42<TrueBrain>be more verbose
11:42<TrueBrain>help others help you
11:43<Samu>you try to place a dock on those places and you are denied, even though there's water there
11:43<Samu>why do I have to explain
11:43<TrueBrain>tell that in the pull request. And adding pictures really helps
11:43<TrueBrain>because you want the change
11:43<TrueBrain>you have to do the work
11:43<TrueBrain>don't expect others to do the work for you
11:44<Samu>i thought it was implied with the title i gave
11:44<TrueBrain>clearly it was not; otherwise it wouldnt have been an issue ;)
11:45<TrueBrain>but here a picture can really help you out; showing what you mean exactly, can help others to understand
11:45<Samu>ok
11:45<+glx>yes pictures showing exactly the denied places
11:46<+glx>text is not enough for cases like this
11:48<andythenorth>before and after ideally
11:49<andythenorth>I did read the PR and the code, but I have no idea how I would even test it
11:49<andythenorth>so I didn't fetch it
11:49<+glx>because the diff doesn't help to visualise
11:52<TrueBrain>awh, .md files are not shown inline in browsers
11:52<TrueBrain>hmm
11:53<+glx>you need a md to html parsing I guess
11:53<TrueBrain>that would be nice :D
11:53<TrueBrain>for now I just rename it to .txt :)
11:55<TrueBrain>owh, the .txt is also not shown inline
11:55<TrueBrain>why not .. hmm
11:55<TrueBrain>https://openttd.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/openttd-nightlies/20190118-master-g07a40df9/README.txt <- any clue anyone?
11:56<TrueBrain>too large, I guess
11:56<+glx>doesn't seem very large too me
11:57<andythenorth>MIME?
11:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhueq
11:57<+glx>Text Document (38,3 Ko)
11:57<TrueBrain>andythenorth: text/plain
11:57<TrueBrain>just no explicit inline
11:57<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/changelog.txt
11:57<TrueBrain>because ... that is annoying
11:57<+glx>maybe it's the way how browsers handle it
11:57<andythenorth>https?
11:58<andythenorth>nope
11:58<andythenorth>https://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/changelog.txt renders in browser for me
11:58<andythenorth>something DO are setting?
11:58*andythenorth hasn't read any headers or anything
11:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhues
11:58<Samu>done
11:59<TrueBrain>I really have no idea why it makes that difference ..
11:59<TrueBrain>browsers are weird
11:59<TrueBrain>Samu: so much more clear
12:00<+glx>now it's clear indeed
12:00<Samu>some AIs aren't prepared for the one corner raised cases closing a water connection, they think that by building a dock, the passage still remains
12:00<Samu>it can now close passage
12:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #23: Add: support binary distribution via our new infrastructure https://git.io/fhuer
12:02<TrueBrain>andythenorth: please do pull this and test it; no rush, but this really needs validation :)
12:02<TrueBrain>if you can run those magic "check-if-links-are-all-valid" scripts over them, would be awesome
12:03<andythenorth>404 checker?
12:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andythenorth commented on pull request #23: Add: support binary distribution via our new infrastructure https://git.io/fhuei
12:03<andythenorth>might not be today
12:03<andythenorth>is it blocker?
12:03<TrueBrain>andythenorth: no rush
12:03<TrueBrain>without it, we cannot go live, no; but I wont have much time either, so no worries
12:04<TrueBrain>have to fix 2 other things first anyway
12:04<TrueBrain>which ... will take time ..
12:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #23: Add: support binary distribution via our new infrastructure https://git.io/fhue9
12:04<TrueBrain>images to look at :D
12:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #23: Add: support binary distribution via our new infrastructure https://git.io/fhuer
12:06<TrueBrain>having nightlies is creeping up on us :D
12:06<TrueBrain>w00p
12:06<andythenorth>:D
12:07<TrueBrain>hmm ... IPv6 issue is back .. that CDN does not work on IPv6 .. but if I do not give the direct link, CDN is useless
12:07<TrueBrain>and custom domains are not supported yet, so I cannot fake it with a CNAME
12:07<andythenorth>:P
12:07<TrueBrain>welllllllllll .... that is a nice blocker
12:07<andythenorth>push
12:07<andythenorth>posh
12:07<andythenorth>pish
12:08<LordAro>TrueBrain: any idea of what "yet" is?
12:08<TrueBrain>"yet"?
12:08<LordAro>custom domains
12:09<TrueBrain>owh, time-wise
12:09<TrueBrain>lol
12:09<LordAro>is there any sort of eta, or is it just a "coming soon" ?
12:09<TrueBrain>I was about to contact them for that :)
12:09<TrueBrain>from what I read, it is in private-beta
12:12<LordAro>alternatively, IPv6 support :p
12:17<TrueBrain>basically, that is what I asked
12:18<TrueBrain>"So I either must route all the traffic via a Droplet (losing edge-caching) or not have IPv6 support (not an option)."
12:18<TrueBrain>the sumnary :P
12:18<andythenorth>ugh
12:18<TrueBrain>the worst is, if they cannot do either, I really have to look into GCP/AWS/Azure
12:19<TrueBrain>and those are so freakinglish unclear
12:19<TrueBrain>I really really don't want to do that :P
12:19<TrueBrain>but okay, ticket sent
12:19<TrueBrain>tonight hopefully I can fix server listing
12:19<TrueBrain>and those are the only 3 remaining things, I think
12:19<TrueBrain>\o/ :D
12:20<TrueBrain>(btw, nightlies are being build every night already; and published. Just not easy to get access to yet)
12:20<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6927 for this one, andythenorth and I have talked already, and it appears it's not going anywhere
12:20<TrueBrain>time to feed myself :D
12:21<andythenorth>Samu: it's unlikely to be merged
12:21<andythenorth>it's a boil-the-ocean task
12:21<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: https://www.ovh.de/cdn/ ?
12:21<Samu>it's a change that only makes sense if it's pursued further
12:21<Samu>to make it global
12:21<Samu>not just for docks
12:22<andythenorth>Samu: I'd close that PR and focus on others
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12:22<Samu>hmm ok, i'm not in the mood to pursue it further, sorry
12:22<andythenorth>e.g. this is a real issue, and it looked like you started making progress https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6931
12:23<Samu>i think it was Wolf01 that incentivated me to do it
12:23<Samu>the concept of Docking Tile
12:24<Samu>oh, that one is finished, unless you find problems
12:26<Samu>regarding where to place the checks, I have placed where I think it's best
12:26<Samu>not 100% sure of it
12:26<Samu>but, for me it seems to work
12:32<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6933 - that one is for consistency purposes
12:33<Samu>screw realism
12:33<Samu>I prefer consistency
12:46<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6935 - hmm, this one had the title changed
12:48<Samu>it's not any ordinary block, but the block that makes the ship dead-locked, with no means to get out of there
12:48<Samu>that type of block
12:50<Samu>I better type it in
12:53<Samu>I need more pictures?
12:53<Samu>:(
12:54<Samu>https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/43006711/46670365-e4113c80-cbc9-11e8-8dd9-f817366b41be.png
12:54<Samu>imagine that ship is not blue
12:54<Samu>that ship would be dead-locked
12:54<LordAro>Samu: stop explaining things here
12:54<Samu>:(
12:54<LordAro>things here get lost or just not seen
12:54<LordAro>put it in the PR
12:55<Samu>hm ok
12:56<nielsm>if you don't feel confident in long-form writing, keep in mind it's a skill that requires practise
12:56<nielsm>explaining technical things concisely and accurately _is_ hard, and you need to do it a lot to get good at it
12:57<nielsm>but it's also a very valuable skill
13:03<andythenorth>89%
13:03<andythenorth>oof
13:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6935: Prevent water construction where it could block nearby ships https://git.io/fhufp
13:05<Samu>I suck at explaining, I really do :(
13:06<Samu>I know what's wrong, I see what's wrong, but then I fail at explaining it to others
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13:09<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6928 - this one is awaiting review again
13:10<Samu>not gonna get approved I guess
13:11<Samu>and that's it
13:13<Samu>yesterday's PRs were closed, I really didn't expect it
13:13<Samu>i combined them together, and today I combined them with the find ship depot
13:14<Samu>it further reduced the stall that happens when ordering 5000 ships to depots
13:14<Samu>for opf
13:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6935: Prevent water construction where it could block nearby ships https://git.io/fhuJY
13:14<Samu>was making progress in that front
13:14<nielsm>the problem is that you're using OPF
13:15<+glx>OPF is dead
13:15<+glx>well more like a zombie ;)
13:15<nielsm>OPF exists to mimic the behavior of 1994 TTD, not to be good
13:18<+glx>maybe it's possible to allow non moving ships to do 90° turns while moving ones can't
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13:19<andythenorth>I commented here multiple times the OPF is dead
13:20<nielsm>don't build your game like this: https://i.imgur.com/1cVG7Ch.jpg
13:20<nielsm>it's only going to cause trouble later on
13:22<+glx>hmm someone mismeasured something ;)
13:26<Samu>eh, so will yapf find ship depots one day?
13:26<Samu>it's where the stall is minimal
13:28<Samu>by minimal, it's still a 2.7 seconds stall
13:28<Samu>but considering 5000 ships
13:28<Samu>it's okaysh
13:29<Samu>and only happens once, it's not a check that's done every tile, only done when requested
13:30<Samu>then of course, the ships will be pathfinder later on for the resulting dest-tile
13:31<Samu>but that doesn't involve stalls
13:32<Samu>if petern patch is approved, the path will be cached
13:34<Samu>have to combine petern's cache into my combined stuff for testing
13:34<Samu>peter1138 sorry, by bad
13:35<Samu>but the stall for npf is another different story
13:35<Samu>it's huuuge
13:35<Samu>14 seconds
13:36<Samu>haven't timed opf stall at the moment, brb
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13:42<andythenorth>I don't recognise the case where 5000 ships all need to find a depot simultaneously
13:43<andythenorth>what do I miss?
13:46<Samu>the worst case scenario
13:50<Samu>wow, 2.069 ms
13:50<Samu>opf beats yapf in stall
13:50<Samu>oh well, it was a nice experiment :|
13:54<Samu>3.456 ms stall with 90 deg allowed
13:54<Samu>still better than my previous 4.7
14:13<Samu>hmm wasn's the 3x3 roads alignment to happen between towns?
14:13<Samu>some towns dont align with others
14:14<Markk>2x2 does at least
14:15<Samu>oops im using random roads, nevermind
14:22<Samu>where do i have the generate friendly rivers patch
14:25<frosch123>do we need different "teams" with merge-permission for openttd/nml/eints/website/compilefarm/dorpsgek/..., or should we continue with a single team? do people want more badges? :p
14:25*peter1138 returns.
14:26<LordAro>frosch123: if the need arises, imo
14:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuT1
14:34<Samu>peter1138 what happens to cache when switching 90 degrees on and off
14:34<nielsm>why would that matter, nobody does that during normal play
14:34<Samu>or change to other pf and back?
14:35<@peter1138>Nothing.
14:35<@peter1138>I guess I consider the path is still valid? ;)
14:36<@peter1138>I guess switching could clear the path.
14:38<m1cr0man>Does openttd load configs and such from it's install directory or the working directory?
14:39<LordAro>m1cr0man: readme section 4.2
14:39<m1cr0man>perfect :)
14:39<LordAro>(both)
14:39<m1cr0man>ty, I actually forgot how good the readme is
14:39<@peter1138>Hmm, need to find my laptop power supply.
14:41<@peter1138>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7056
14:41<@peter1138>^ LordAro, approved, no commit?
14:42<andythenorth>nielsm: horse EMUs done ;) https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1217564#p1217564
14:44<LordAro>peter1138: i wanted someone else to look at/approve it, i think
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14:45<nielsm>coal!
14:46<Gabda>o/
14:46<andythenorth>every time I get to 90% I ship Horse
14:46<andythenorth>then I add more stuff :P
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14:48<@peter1138>Ship early, ship often.
14:48<@peter1138>Did I see emails earlier about binaries and nightlies?
14:48<nielsm>but those aren't ships.
14:48<nielsm>train early, train often
14:49<@peter1138>o_O
14:49<@peter1138>Well played.
14:49<andythenorth>horse early, horse often
14:50<@peter1138>NRT?
14:50<andythenorth>you should yes
14:50<andythenorth>currently it conflicts
14:50<LordAro>again?
14:50<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6811
14:50<LordAro>or wait, when was it last fixed?
14:50<andythenorth>fixed before we changed road pathfinder
14:50<andythenorth>so eh
14:51<andythenorth>long-running fork, merge hell
14:51<@peter1138>I'll take a look tomorrow.
14:51<LordAro>there doesn't look like an awful lot of conflicts
14:51<@peter1138>Currently I'm at the M-i-L's house, on tethered Internet.
14:51<andythenorth>there aren't
14:51<LordAro>nothing scary looking anyway
14:52<andythenorth>no, just above my knowledge to resolve
14:52<andythenorth>I don't want to guess, and introduce subtle bugs
14:52<andythenorth>or even unsubtle ones
14:52<@peter1138>Samu, any other configuration settings you can spot which might want the path caches to be invalidated?
14:53<Samu>hmm tile height
14:53<andythenorth>right mexican food time
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14:53<@peter1138>Tile height?
14:53<Samu>it could change costs
14:54<Samu>stuff that alters the cost
14:54<Samu>of the path
14:54<nielsm>are there configuration settings that do that?
14:54<@peter1138>I don't see a setting to do that.
14:55<Samu>no, not that
14:55<Samu>sorry
14:55<@peter1138>There's max map height but that can't be changed.
14:55<Samu>canals make some ships move slower, at least i saw some code there
14:55<nielsm>adding checks during landscape manipulation for obstructing any cached ship paths would probably negate any advantage gained by the caching
14:55<LordAro>peter1138: not again :p
14:56<@peter1138>Again?
14:56<LordAro>More Height Levels took so long to get implemented :p
14:57<@peter1138>Eh, I mean the setting can't be changed mid-game, therefore there's nothing to invalidate.
14:57<Samu>your code doesn't compare costs?
14:57<@peter1138>Why would it? The pathfinder does all that.
14:57<Samu>at least i would check if the path cost is still the same as before
14:58<@peter1138>Why?
14:58<@peter1138>You'd need to... run the pathfinder again to see if it changed.
14:58<@peter1138>And that would be utterly pointless.
14:58<nielsm>path caching might make ships take less optimal routes in some cases where the landscape changes around it
14:58<nielsm>that's the tradeoff for the performance improvement
14:58<Samu>only retrieve the costs of the cached cache and check if it still matches
14:58<Samu>oh, ok
14:59<@peter1138>nielsm, yup, that's why I set a fairly low limit to the cached path length. Actually 32 is quite high.
14:59<@peter1138>But I figured we don't need Yet Another Option.
15:00<Samu>only 32 tiles? :( i thought it was caching the whole path
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>but the same thing happens for trains that have long path reservations
15:00<@peter1138>Indeed.
15:00<Samu>well i didn't really look at the code in full
15:00<Samu>maybe i should
15:01<@peter1138>32 tiles means up to 32x less pathfinder calls.
15:01<@peter1138>Which is significant.
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>so we allow 6 times longer routes and have 6^2 longer pathfinder calculations :p
15:04<@peter1138>Heh, well, I'm wondering now about that earlier patch that refuses to pathfind over max order distance. Would be worth seeing if this cache makes that unnecessary.
15:04<@peter1138>Heck maybe max order distance becomes unnecessary.
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>that would be ideal
15:04<@peter1138>Now that I think about it... shared path cache...
15:05<@peter1138>Maybe this PR is a bit premature :p
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>introduce the concept of routes? :p
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>TF-style
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>the route is a complete path, and each ship only needs to follow that path
15:06<+glx>shared patch cache seems like a good idea
15:06<@peter1138>Cache a complete path, indexed by start and end, and then look that up when finding a path to follow.
15:07<@peter1138>Damn. And this patch was approved at two points!
15:07<+glx>but a change in the middle of the route can be a problem
15:08<@peter1138>glx, just invalidate the cache if a ship encounters an obstruction, and maybe add a lifetime to each path.
15:08<@peter1138>How common is 100 ships sharing a route?
15:09<+glx>cache between 2 orders and not the full list
15:10<@peter1138>Well yes.
15:10<@peter1138>I'm thinking lookup a cache by start/end tiles, so that non-shared orders still benefit.
15:11<@peter1138>Or where orders partially follow the same route.
15:12<+glx>ah yes a global cache instead an individual cache
15:12<@peter1138>Could have a LRU as well.
15:14<@peter1138>Hmm, less optimal for not-found paths.
15:19<@peter1138>Sadface. I don't have the proper base graphics installed on this laptop :/
15:22<Gabda>would it help in the ship path finding, if the water domains were indexed?
15:23<Gabda>if the 256 largest individual water surfaces were numbered
15:23<@peter1138>Not really.
15:23<@peter1138>What would help is know if start -> end is unreachable.
15:23<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> How common is 100 ships sharing a route? <-- i could imagine some people actually do that :p
15:23<Gabda>you wouldn't need to search for most of the path not founds
15:24<Gabda>if you can check at the begining that they are in different water domains
15:24<@peter1138>Yeah but "256 largest" isn't that useful.
15:24<@peter1138>Find isolated areas and flag them as such, yeah.
15:24<@peter1138>Could be tons though :(
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15:25<Eddi|zuHause>you don't really know how large an area is when you start indexing it
15:25<@peter1138>Yeah.
15:25<Gabda>if one is numbered, the other is nit, there is no route
15:25<@peter1138>256 may or may not be enough.
15:25<@peter1138>65535 may not be enough on a 4096x4096 map.
15:25<Gabda>it none of them is numbered, t
15:26<Gabda>it means that it is one or two, but small ponds
15:26<@peter1138>I guess you could mark really small areas the same, and always exclude them.
15:26<Gabda>and in small ponds, it is easier to tell if there is no route
15:26<@peter1138>Like an area that's too small to contain a multiple docks.
15:26<LordAro>you'd have to invalidate the cache on almost every terraform action though
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>no
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>you can update the indexing on clearing/flooding
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>we discussed this a few days ago, it's a relatively simple flood-fill operation
15:28<Gabda>it might be tricky if you cut a surface into two
15:29<Gabda>but you can find that on the first path not found "error"
15:30<Gabda>but I don't know how often this problem comes up that someone wants to send a ship where it clearly cannot go
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>you just have to loop around the cleared area, and start a new flood-fill action (with a new index) from each tile that still has the old index number
15:30<@peter1138>Just :D
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15:31<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i mean, it's not gonna be that much code
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>Gabda: i think the more common case is that a route that was once possible gets cut by some unrelated thing
15:32<+glx>and sometimes a longer route may exist too
15:40<@peter1138>Gabda, so yeah, if you can make a patch for it... ;)
15:41<Gabda>for the numbering
15:41<@peter1138>There's loads of space on plain water tiles.
15:41<Gabda>or detecting if a route gets cut?
15:46<Gabda>with a 2 byte indexing it is possible to number each separate water surface above the size of 128 tiles, even on the 4096x4096 map
15:48<@peter1138>I think m2 is free, that's 2 bytes.
15:49<Gabda>ships can only go to a different hight if there is a lock build at the transition?
15:50<@peter1138>Yup.
15:53<TrueBrain>https://servers.openttd.org <- that working for everyone as they would expect? (spot any odds things?)
15:54<+glx>m2 is not free for ship depots
15:54<+glx>but m8 is free for all water tiles
15:55<Gabda>m3 and m4 is free for dock and bouy and depot
15:55<+glx>TrueBrain: seems ok for me (and IPv6)
15:56<TrueBrain>tnx
15:56<Gabda>and oilrig (if the ship can go under it)
15:56<@peter1138>Well, there's m8 too, yes.
15:57<+glx>but m3 and m4 are short
15:57<Samu>hi
15:57<Gabda>can a ship sail on oilrig tiles?
15:57<Samu>no
15:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #24: Fix: also redirect serverlisting pages to their own subdomain https://git.io/fhuLD
15:58<Gabda>but m3 << 8 + m4 can work
15:58<+glx>but that's 2 accesses
15:58<Samu>what are you discussing?
15:58<+glx>plus math
15:59<Samu>indexing routes?
15:59<Samu>no, indexing water bodies?
15:59<Gabda>but only for a few tiles
16:00<Gabda>yes, water bodies
16:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fh0Yl
16:01<Gabda>well, m8 seems easier, but it is nice to see it so free :)
16:01<@peter1138>TrueBrain, looks okay but I don't look at it often enough to know if something is different.
16:01<TrueBrain>tnx
16:01<TrueBrain>if nothing obvious is broken, it should be working, right? :D
16:01<@peter1138>Hmm, so global path cache?
16:02<@peter1138>TrueBrain, ship it :D
16:02<Samu>what are we caching now?
16:03<Gabda>it seems like everything
16:03<LordAro>TrueBrain: train it :D
16:03<@peter1138>Full path between orders, I think.
16:03<Samu>how will the water bodies help?
16:03<Samu>oh but costs?
16:03<TrueBrain>right .. how to setup a ipv6 to ipv4 gateway ...
16:03<@peter1138>What about costs?
16:04<@peter1138>haproxy/nginx?
16:04<Samu>it's... hmm let me find
16:04<TrueBrain>natpt I guess?
16:05<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp#L180
16:05<TrueBrain>would be nice if it works for TCP and UDP I guess
16:05<Samu>that cost can decide different routes for different ships
16:05<@peter1138>Oh, UDP necessary too.
16:05<@peter1138>Samu, okay.
16:05<TrueBrain>yeah, Master Server ...
16:05<Gabda>water bodies could help to find "no routes" faster, if it is possible to implement it well
16:07<LordAro>TrueBrain: remind me how to start/build the website?
16:08<TrueBrain>owh, naptd is not in debian .. hmm
16:08<LordAro>there's no readme :(
16:08<TrueBrain>LordAro: docker build, for sure
16:08<TrueBrain>looking in there should for sure help you out :D
16:08<TrueBrain>but install Jekyll, and run 'jekyll serve'
16:08<TrueBrain>or use a Jekyll docker
16:08<TrueBrain>https://hub.docker.com/r/jekyll/builder/
16:09<LordAro>i'll have a look
16:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #24: Fix: also redirect serverlisting pages to their own subdomain https://git.io/fhut8
16:09<TrueBrain>I will add stuff in the README soon-ish
16:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro closed issue #13: Server-listing cannot be on www.openttd.org https://git.io/fhOxr
16:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #24: Fix: also redirect serverlisting pages to their own subdomain https://git.io/fhuLD
16:10<TrueBrain>hmmm .. I forgot to change the URL in the menu, I guess
16:10<TrueBrain>ah, no :)
16:12<Samu>caching between shared orders may not work well if the ship models differ
16:12<Samu>because of those costs
16:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #23: Add: support binary distribution via our new infrastructure https://git.io/fhutP
16:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #23: Add: support binary distribution via our new infrastructure https://git.io/fhutD
16:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #23: Add: support binary distribution via our new infrastructure https://git.io/fhuty
16:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened issue #25: Many hardcoded URLs https://git.io/fhutS
16:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened issue #26: Update README https://git.io/fhutH
16:16<TrueBrain>why fixing things if you can make a bug ticket out of it :D
16:17<TrueBrain>okay, an IPv6 is more complex than I assumed
16:17<TrueBrain>guess we have a bit of an unique situation, where we only want to convert a single IPv6 to a single IPv4 :)
16:17<@peter1138>Samu, could make that cost part of the cache index.
16:18<LordAro>TrueBrain: :p
16:21<@peter1138>Maybe best to stick with the caching we have for now. It's still a massive improvement.
16:22<@peter1138>Anyone want to approve it? ;)
16:22<@peter1138>Before I decide to change anything else.
16:24<Samu>me? I approve :o
16:25<Samu>i don't know how to approve
16:25<@peter1138>You can't.
16:25<Samu>ok
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16:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuqW
16:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuqz
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16:34<Samu>lock ready or lock friendly
16:35<Samu>probably needs a revise
16:35<Samu>it's not ready for forbiden 90 degrees
16:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #27: Update: README.md is now more verbose and even contains a FAQ https://git.io/fhuqd
16:40<TrueBrain>LordAro will be so proud :D
16:40<LordAro>TrueBrain: `Pagination Error: Detected invalid url "/news" for "pages/news_archive.html" xpected "/" or "/index.html"` any ideas?
16:40<LordAro>TrueBrain: :>
16:40<TrueBrain>none; never seen that
16:41<LordAro>hmm
16:41<TrueBrain>https://github.com/TrueBrain/OpenTTD-website/tree/readme for a pretty view of the README btw
16:41*peter1138 attempts to remove path_dest
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16:42<TrueBrain>LordAro: which version of Jekyll?
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16:42<LordAro>TrueBrain: 3.8.5
16:42<@peter1138>Can someone go for a pee for me?
16:42<TrueBrain>hmm, I have the same LordAro ..
16:43<TrueBrain>LordAro: you did install the Gemfile.lock deps?
16:43<TrueBrain>especially the jekyll-feed and jekyll-paginate-v2 ?
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16:44<LordAro>TrueBrain: pretty sure i have
16:46<LordAro>oh hang on, i've updated, rather than installed
16:46<LordAro>mayhaps jekyll-paginate-v2 2.1 has changed something
16:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #27: Update: README.md is now more verbose and even contains a FAQ https://git.io/fhuqd
16:47<TrueBrain>I updated the README to show what you should do
16:47<TrueBrain>'bundle install'
16:47<TrueBrain>should used the pinned versions
16:47<TrueBrain>not completely sure, because ruby
16:48<LordAro>yeah, got it running now
16:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #27: Update: README.md is now more verbose and even contains a FAQ https://git.io/fhuqd
16:49<TrueBrain>good :)
16:49<TrueBrain>README is not perfect yet, but it is a start :)
16:49<TrueBrain>this 'website' became pretty .. huge :D
16:50<LordAro>heh
16:50<LordAro>yeah, definitely seems to be something to do with 2.1 - https://github.com/sverrirs/jekyll-paginate-v2/issues/147
16:50<LordAro>not that that's a particularly useful bug report
16:51<TrueBrain>will check it out when I bump the versions .. cant be arshed atm :D
16:55<Samu>generating 13k towns when there's more water than land is tooo slow
16:55<@peter1138>:D
16:58<Samu>why doesn't the world editor allow me to generate random rivers?
16:58<Samu>scenario editor*
16:59<@peter1138>Because you didn't add that feature yet? :D
17:03<TrueBrain>"2a03:b0c0:2:d0::dc6:7000 - 2a03:b0c0:2:d0::dc6:700f" <- LOL @ IPv6 space that DO assigns to a droplet .. that is ... cute?
17:04<+glx>wow big range :)
17:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhumP
17:05<TrueBrain>I think they are scared they run out
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17:06<+glx>I have a lot more for just a home connection
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17:07<@peter1138>I think I have a /48 for home, although it's not all routed there.
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17:09<Samu>@logs
17:09<@DorpsGek>Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
17:09<+glx>I think I have a /64
17:10<milek7>scaleway is even more lol, /128...
17:11<Samu>i wish i could drag and drop branches onto each other to combine patches
17:12<@peter1138>You could make a tool that lets you do that :p
17:13<LordAro>https://i.imgur.com/PAP2yac.png progress!
17:15<TrueBrain>but but buttttttt OMG
17:15<Samu>Rebase Onto...
17:15<Samu>hope this is it
17:19<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7073 + https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6931 = happy ships!
17:19<TrueBrain>okay, this IPv6 stuff is more of an issue than I expected; if I had spend a few more brain-cycles, I would have realized ithat :D
17:19<@peter1138>:/
17:20<TrueBrain>IPv4 to IPv6 is easier, as an IPv4 fits in an IPv6 :P
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17:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuY3
17:24<LordAro>https://i.imgur.com/4sXhdy8.png closer...
17:25<milek7>maybe this? looks simple https://github.com/wojtekka/6tunnel
17:25<milek7>ah, but probably doesn't do udp
17:26<TrueBrain>yeah, but if you look in the code, there is one minor issue :D
17:26<TrueBrain>you can fork-bomb that very very quickly
17:26<TrueBrain>nice LordAro :)
17:27<TrueBrain>6tunnel has a global connection limit, instead of a per IP or something
17:27<TrueBrain>guess nginx will have to do .. (not the HTTP part, but nginx can also route TCP and UDP)
17:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuYV
17:34<milek7>hard to have meaningful per-IP limit on ipv6 ;D
17:35<TrueBrain>nginx does this pretty well
17:35<TrueBrain>right .. now I need an IPv6 enabled host .. hmm
17:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuY7
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17:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuOk
17:45<TrueBrain>glx (or anyone else with IPv6): can you check that http://www.staging.openttd.org and https://www.staging.openttd.org as simply working (over IPv6)
17:45<+glx>http is redirected to https
17:46<TrueBrain>I guess that means it works :P
17:46<+glx>firefox says ipv6 but the openttd icon doesn't ;)
17:46<TrueBrain>no, the icon will no longer change :)
17:46<TrueBrain>I forgot we added that gimmick :)
17:46<TrueBrain>lol
17:47<TrueBrain>tnx glx!
17:47<TrueBrain>okay ... so I now have a DigitalOcean LoadBalancer which is configured automatically via kubernetes, which is awesome
17:47<TrueBrain>and ... an IPv6 LoadBalancer I had to setup myself and manually sync with kubernetes :P
17:47<TrueBrain>this will NEVER go wrong!
17:47<TrueBrain>:D
17:47<@peter1138>No IPv6 on my tethered ghetto connection :/
17:48<TrueBrain>but for now this allows us to have IPv6 as before, so I can continue the migration .. means only the CDN issues are left .. hmm
17:48<TrueBrain>I guess I can add a redirector there, which splits IPv4 from IPv6
17:49<TrueBrain>sub-optimal, but at least means we can go live with the new stuff
17:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuOY
17:50<TrueBrain>getting there :D
17:50<milek7>it seriously needs loadbalancer? one machine for simple site is not enough?
17:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #21: Staging doesn't support IPv6 https://git.io/fhuOO
17:52<TrueBrain>I think you heavily underestimate how busy OpenTTD is, and especially can be :D
17:52<TrueBrain>and many parts of the OpenTTD services are far from 'simple'
17:52<TrueBrain>the 'website' project is just the first and simplest :)
17:53<TrueBrain>but also, LB is common practice, and as we are running k8s, also simplistic to add :)
17:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fh0Yl
18:00<Samu>I can't make terragenesis generate the kind of terrain that would showcase best my PRs
18:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuOg
18:00<Samu>either single level rivers with tons of sea water
18:00<Samu>or multi-level rivers with too little sea water
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18:02<Samu>terragenesis showcases #7073 best, original generator showcases #6931 best
18:03<Samu>i wanted to showcase both changes applied in a single screenshot
18:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuOK
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18:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fh0Yl
18:11<LordAro>\o/
18:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuOx
18:15<LordAro>yes, too late :p
18:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuOj
18:18<LordAro>peter1138: if you're going to be doing extra stuff - how much extra effort would it be to make dest_tile a private variable? would protect against future abuses
18:18<@peter1138>Not sure, it's read from quite a lot.
18:19<@peter1138>C#'s accessors make that easy, heh.
18:19<+glx>yeah get and set are easy
18:22*LordAro slepify, in an attempt to go cycling tomorrow
18:24<@peter1138>LordAro, is #7040 still needing changes?
18:24<@peter1138>Oh. Good night.
18:24<nielsm>argh, visual studio keeps insisting that strgen and settingsgen need to be relinked, and the OPL emulator code I imported needs to rebuild all the time
18:24<nielsm>despite no changes
18:24<@peter1138>I'm having a day off tomorrow, given that I'm in the wrong town without a bike (nor cycle clothing)
18:24<nielsm>I've tried dleting all things I can find that seem to relate to the project data, and it's still happening
18:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7040: Fix: Round up deltas for smooth scrolling, so that target will eventually be reached https://git.io/fhnl2
18:25<LordAro>peter1138: :)
18:27<@peter1138>Bought a Graze "oat millionaire" bar. Totally not worth it.
18:27<@peter1138>Very disappointing for £1.99!
18:27<@peter1138>(Hospital shop, may be more expensive than normal.)
18:33<nielsm>most ceral bar type stuff seems massively overpriced for what it's supposed to be
18:34<nielsm>unless it's half coated in chocolate then it sells for cheap
18:34<nielsm>but leaving out the chocolate makes it expensive, somehow
18:36<+glx>maybe try a rebuild all
18:37<nielsm>I've deleted the entire obj directory, all .vs directories, the project database (intellisense and stuff), and anything else I could find being generated by opening/building it
18:38<+glx>intellisense seems broken to me
18:38<nielsm>maybe I should just go ahead and install a newer VS version anyway
18:38<nielsm>(currently using 2015)
18:38<+glx>it doesn't like some comments (says broken XML)
18:38<@peter1138>It had chocolate on it, but yes.
18:38<@peter1138>Should really be not-lazy and try making my own. Or just do without.
18:39<+glx>doesn't find definition for static inline functions in .h
18:39<+glx>I switched to VS2017 recently
18:40<nielsm>https://0x0.st/shRJ.txt <- result of doing a regular build after just finishing one :(
18:42<@peter1138>Do the files somehow have a weird modified date on them?
18:42<nielsm>last modified 9 hours ago according to my system clock
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18:44<+glx>relinking exe without having recompiled anything is weird
18:45<+glx>I knew I should not start the vs2017 update, it now wants me to reboot
18:45<+glx>ok launching 2015 instead :)
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18:48<+glx>but 2015 is so slow to launch
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18:54<+glx>trying a rebuild all then build to compare
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19:02<+glx>on build with untouched source, it just runs the settings vbs
19:02<Samu>https://imgur.com/xnPVn6k
19:02<+glx>hmm no it's the version vbs
19:03<Samu>ehm, i need paint
19:03<Samu>brb
19:05<Samu>paint won't do it
19:07<nielsm>now the vs2019 preview installer wants to reboot
19:07<+glx>hehe
19:07<nielsm>just going to shut down then
19:07<nielsm>should be sleeping anyway
19:08<+glx>for windows update shutdown is not a reboot
19:08<nielsm>yea...
19:08<+glx>cost me hours when I did it for 1803 upgrade
19:08<+glx>had to redo the upgrade from start
19:09<nielsm>yea you can tell it to "update and shut down", but that's only the preparation phase it does then
19:09<nielsm>still has to do more work on next bot
19:09<nielsm>+o
19:09<nielsm>anway, gn
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19:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuG0
19:24<Samu>omg, so small
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 20 00:00:28 2019