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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-01-20

---Logopened Sun Jan 20 00:00:28 2019
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01:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #6173: Add support for SDL2 https://git.io/fhuR3
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02:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #6173: Add support for SDL2 https://git.io/fhuRx
02:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #6173: Add support for SDL2 https://git.io/fhuRh
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02:26<@peter1138>Morning.
02:26<andythenorth>moin
02:27<@peter1138>LordAro, I thought someone (a dev) had already made an SDL2 patch.
02:27<@peter1138>Just, incomplete. About 5-6 years ago, too. And it wasn't me.
02:28<andythenorth>oof
02:28<andythenorth>big diff, but I want this feature https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7073
02:28*andythenorth tests it
02:29<@peter1138>It's not that big, but does need review.
02:29<@peter1138>Has some weirdly named functions and variables.
02:29<@peter1138>FlowsLock
02:29<@peter1138>t_2dm
02:30<Gustavo6046>looks pretty cool
02:31<andythenorth>I just worry about side effects
02:31<@peter1138>What sort of side effects.
02:31<andythenorth>for example, it seems to modify town behaviour for bridges
02:31<andythenorth>so do towns fail to grow?
02:31<andythenorth>etc
02:32<andythenorth>it's not just fixing isolated behaviours one at a time
02:32<@peter1138>*nod*
02:32<andythenorth>it also plants extra river tiles
02:33*andythenorth tests it anyway
02:34<Gustavo6046>150 wpm gang
02:34<Gustavo6046>ops wrong channel
02:35<andythenorth>eh the 7073 patch works really well
02:35<andythenorth>the extra river tiles make rivers more random and interesting
02:38<@peter1138>It sounds like 2 separate features combined.
02:40<andythenorth>hmm
02:40<andythenorth>no way to know if the patch causes this https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9242/Unnamed,%2001-01-2000%233.png
02:40<andythenorth>river generation is imperfect anyway, but more seem to be failing to find a route to sea
02:40<andythenorth>'more' is very subjective :(
02:42<andythenorth>same map https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9243/Unnamed,%2001-01-2000%234.png
02:43<andythenorth>pretty reproducible actually
02:44*andythenorth tries master
02:44<LordAro>peter1138: yeah, i seem to recall something like that as well. maybe rubidium?
02:45<andythenorth>probs this thread if any https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=69650
02:46<andythenorth>presumably we're discussing this? o_O https://github.com/nikolas/OpenTTD/tree/sdl2
02:50<andythenorth>hmm samu's patch
02:50*andythenorth had better read it
02:50<andythenorth>I guess it's banning rivers from contiguous slopes
02:52<andythenorth>I'm guessing this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7073/commits/04bcae89d4ddece7d5730f739e4550fae363dba5#diff-2ade113f29822f3daae5176be52a7e6eL1012
02:53<@peter1138>I was going to try to make a GLFW driver at one point.
02:54<andythenorth>:o
02:54<andythenorth>:)
02:54<andythenorth>oof 7073 is really frustrating
02:55<andythenorth>it produces rivers that are (1) more navigable and (2) mostly look better
02:55<@peter1138>But?
02:55<andythenorth>but also (3) are too often broken, with no route to sea
02:55<@peter1138>Ah.
02:55<andythenorth>and look stupid because they stop at the top of a hill
02:56<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9244/Unnamed,%2001-01-2000%235.png
02:56<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9245/Unnamed,%2001-01-2000%236.png
02:57<@peter1138>Yers
02:57<andythenorth>so yeah, another useful looking patch, that tries to boil the ocean and fails
02:58<andythenorth>samu is 28% of open PRs
02:58<andythenorth>there's not one that I can try and push through yet
03:00<LordAro>preferring the navigable paths might help?
03:00<LordAro>rather than only
03:01<@peter1138>Urgh, this laptop display... Keep having to change the angle of it. TN panels :(
03:03<andythenorth>does anybody make a decent laptop anymore?
03:10<@peter1138>Eh, this one is about 8 years old :p
03:11<andythenorth>probably has working keys
03:11<andythenorth>a feature mine lacks
03:16*peter1138 hungers.
03:17<@peter1138>But there's not a lot of food here. Ketchup on weetabix is a bit weird.
03:18<andythenorth>deliveroo
03:19<andythenorth>order porridge
03:22<LordAro>peter1138: that's literally the worst thing i've ever heard of
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03:23<Wolf01>o/
03:23*LordAro aways on a bike
03:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth requested changes for pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuEu
03:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuEo
03:32<@peter1138>:D
03:33<@peter1138>I didn't try it either.
03:33<@peter1138>I did have just plain weetabix, though.
03:34<@peter1138>+ hot water.
03:34*andythenorth wants porridge
03:38<@peter1138>Turns out plain weetabix with hot water is actually nice. Who knew?
03:39<andythenorth>basically porridge :P
03:41<@peter1138>Wheat rather than oats.
03:43<andythenorth>"details"
03:43*andythenorth has porridge
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03:51<nielsm>morning
03:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6980: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType https://git.io/fhuEb
03:52<nielsm>I've come closer to why VS is constantly rebuilding some files, set msbuild logging level to "detailed" and found this:
03:52<nielsm> ..\src\music\emu\opl_ks.cpp will be compiled because it was not found in the tracking log.
03:52<nielsm> ..\src\music\emu\opl_nuked.cpp will be compiled because it was not found in the tracking log.
03:53<nielsm>the tracking log is one of those .tlog files it writes, has name of a compilation unit on one line, followed by line of all other files it references on the following lines
03:53<nielsm>for some reason those two files are never written to the tracking log as compilation units
03:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhuEA
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04:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7074: Change 81330b8d6e: Cached path only needs to be cleared if it was found to be invalid. https://git.io/fhuum
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04:10<@peter1138>I looked at caching NPF, it needs to delve much deeper due to how NPF works.
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04:25<andythenorth>wow
04:25<andythenorth>once again I am surprised by reddit
04:25<andythenorth>https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/ is mostly full of nice people asking reasonable questions
04:25<andythenorth>what happened to 'reddit is the sewer of the internet'
04:25<andythenorth>??
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04:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7074: Change 81330b8d6e: Cached path only needs to be cleared if it was found to be invalid. https://git.io/fhuuH
04:50<andythenorth>michi_cc: you don't have merge rights? :o
04:51<+michi_cc>I have, but then my name is attached to the commit :) Devs with commit rights can generally eat their own dog food :p
04:52<+michi_cc>Especially if it's apparent they are around.
05:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7074: Change 81330b8d6e: Cached path only needs to be cleared if it was found to be invalid. https://git.io/fhuum
05:06<+michi_cc>andythenorth: Happy now? ^^^
05:06<andythenorth>:D
05:12<andythenorth>BBL
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05:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7074: Change 81330b8d6e: Cached path only needs to be cleared if it was found to be invalid. https://git.io/fhugs
05:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhugW
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06:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuaI
06:52*peter1138 returns.
06:52<@peter1138>I was around ;)
06:53<@peter1138>No wait. I *wasn't* around.
06:54<nielsm>https://0x0.st/sFrZ.jpg stop perching on my phone... silly bird
07:00*LordAro reappear
07:00<LordAro>it brr
07:01<nielsm>1>------ Up-To-Date check: Project: strgen_vs141.vcxproj, Configuration: Debug Win32 ------
07:01<nielsm>1>Project is not up-to-date: build input 'C:\Users\nielsm\Dev\vcpkg\scripts\buildsystems\msbuild\vcpkg.targets' is missing.
07:01<nielsm>no what? why? that file exists and is readable and has a modify date in the past
07:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6965: Add: Four alternative town cargo generation methods https://git.io/fhuwY
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07:09<@peter1138>Andy returns.
07:11<@peter1138>Hmm, liveries...
07:12<@peter1138>Need to fix that GUI.
07:14<andythenorth>innit
07:14<andythenorth>or I could just redesign it all
07:14<andythenorth>:o I could learn the GUI code :P
07:16<nielsm>more wtf https://0x0.st/sFrw.png
07:16<nielsm>1. why does it uppercase the path
07:16<nielsm>2. why does that prevent it from being opened?
07:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuwA
07:18<@peter1138>andythenorth, it was redesigned :p
07:18<@peter1138>andythenorth, just my plan of having a resizable matrix didn't quite work.
07:18*andythenorth finds the fork
07:18<andythenorth>eh I have you upstream anyway
07:19<andythenorth>group-livery?
07:19<@peter1138>It's out of date.
07:19<andythenorth>ugh fucking .obs files :|
07:19<@peter1138>I have a local one with the sprite updates split up.
07:19<@peter1138>Maybe I should force-push. Hmm.
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07:20<@peter1138>andythenorth, I have a fix for that but it'll break VS builds, and whatever other builds we have that don't use the Makefiles.
07:20<andythenorth>oof
07:21<@peter1138>What methods of building are there on OSX?
07:21<andythenorth>I only know about make?
07:21<@peter1138>I just need to translate the awk file into a vbs.
07:21<andythenorth>awk is available for me
07:21<andythenorth>dunno if it's installed by default
07:22<@peter1138>It probably is.
07:22<andythenorth>probs
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07:23<@peter1138>If not we could just write a helper program in C++ that does the work, and that should work on any platform.
07:23<@peter1138>The issue is if grfcodec is necessary.
07:25<@peter1138>Was there an xcode project file at some point or something?
07:26<@peter1138>Ah, looks like if there was, xcode called make anyway, so it's just Windows that needs tweaking.
07:26<@peter1138>It'll build without the .obs files but won't run.
07:32<andythenorth>:P
07:35<@peter1138>Core 2 Duo laptops are slow :/
07:35<@peter1138>That NoCab save still runs horribly slow :D
07:35<@peter1138>Haven't tried it without the cache though.
07:37<@peter1138>Hmm, I'm missing a nice non-sample-based GM synth on Linux :/
07:37<@peter1138>There is a 100MB OPL3 soundfont which is not quite what I want.
07:37<nielsm>merge my adlib-music branch? :3
07:38<nielsm>it (mostly) works now
07:38<nielsm>of course that needs adlib.cat
07:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7065: Change: Make ships stop and change direction slowly instead of instantly turning. https://git.io/fhuro
07:43<@peter1138>Yeah I only have OpenMSX here.
07:45<andythenorth>I need a tame train nerd
07:46<andythenorth>for advice
07:47<nielsm>gah nope can't find anything showing why devenv.exe likes to uppercase specifically that vcpkg.targets filename
07:48<nielsm>wtf-isms https://0x0.st/sFr5.png
07:50<LordAro>how odd
07:50*andythenorth had forgotten about windows
07:50<andythenorth>C: and stuff
07:50<andythenorth>probably the wrong tool to build civilisation with :P
07:52<nielsm>okay, it seems to be caused by the git checkout having been made with WSL
07:52<nielsm>which makes some weird case-sensitivity things in ntfs
07:53<nielsm>I now made new directories for every level of the path and moved the contents into the new dirs
07:53<nielsm>deleted the old now empty dirs, and renamed the new to the old names
07:53<nielsm>then it works
07:53<nielsm>it was not good enough to rename the original dirs
07:54<nielsm>I'm going to submit a bug report for vs2019 preview
07:55<LordAro>nice.
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08:07<nielsm>and the issue was similar with the two CPP files constantly being rebuilt
08:07<nielsm>moved them to a new dir and renamed that to match the old name
08:07<nielsm>now they don't fail all the time
08:18<@peter1138>o_O
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08:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7065: Change: Make ships stop and change direction slowly instead of instantly turning. https://git.io/fhWk0
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08:33*LordAro continues being a webdev https://i.imgur.com/Lt8jvyl.png
08:34<@peter1138>Fix the underline on the top right!
08:35<LordAro>already done :p
08:36<@peter1138>Ship it!
08:36<LordAro>it looks a lot worse at the bottom of the page :p
08:37<@peter1138>The whole thing looks a bit dated these days.
08:38<@peter1138>Right, off to visit the MiL again.
08:38<LordAro>F
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08:51<nielsm>btw has ottd been Elfring'd yet? https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/12673
08:51<LordAro>oh yes
08:56<frosch123>oh, there is a verb for that guy :p
08:57<LordAro>https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/11/28/690 "That said, I'm considering Markus Elfring being a human." "Thanks for this view."
08:57<LordAro>heh
08:58<LordAro>nielsm: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+author%3Aelfring+ but yes
08:59<LordAro>istr they appeared here as well
09:01<LordAro>http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&date=1523836800#1523908299 indeed
09:01<LordAro>it honestly could just be a well trained markov chain
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09:27<nnyby>elfring on sourceforge as well >_< https://sourceforge.net/p/cppcheck/discussion/development/thread/e325c49216/ what a truly annoying bot
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09:37<Samu>gi
09:47<andythenorth>so I have to draw this for Horse
09:47<andythenorth>but
09:47<andythenorth>it's ugly AF https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains/Daves-APT-P-travels/i-GHx9Hg3/0/cbde1531/L/APT-P_Quintinshill_10-83-L.jpg
09:47<andythenorth>and I am not motivated to do it :P
09:48<nielsm>that's a dirty train
09:49<Samu>Data type of TileOffsByDiagDir.
09:49<Samu>data type?
09:51<Samu>ah, TileIndexDiff?
10:06<Samu>Split into two functions. I.e. one that does the above tile checks and the main recursive function.
10:06<Samu>but but...
10:06<Samu>i'm gonna repeat variables
10:06<Samu>gonna repeat delta_mid and dir
10:06<Samu>i thought repetition was bad
10:10<andythenorth>of vars?
10:11<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvjabr0nl
10:11<Samu>3 and 6 are repeated at 23 24
10:12<Samu>i will use them for the main function
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10:29<LordAro>"OpenTTD is officially supported on the following operating systems." ... "Solaris"
10:29<LordAro>hmm.
10:29<LordAro>also missing MacOS
10:36<Samu>michi_cc what do you mean by variable name? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7073#discussion_r249269002
10:40<LordAro>Samu: presumably not descriptive enough
10:41<Samu>i need more names?
10:41<LordAro>"t2_dm" does not say what the variable is for
10:41<LordAro>t_2dm*
10:41<Samu>tile_2 times delta middle
10:43<LordAro>regardless, i think you should look at the comments further down first, before making minor modifications like this
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10:45<andythenorth>So cab car as engine? Or middle car as engine? https://www.apt-p.com/APTConfigurations.htm
10:45<andythenorth>I have code for either
10:46<nielsm>you mean which actually provides power?
10:46<nielsm>is it modular or single-part articulated?
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10:47<andythenorth>it's built as cabs + middle cars
10:49<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/nightlies/v6957-3007/docs/html/trains.html#helm_wind_cab
10:50<nielsm>zero-capacity power cars in the middle are more "interesting" perhaps
10:51<nielsm>question is whether any AI would be able to build the train
10:51<andythenorth>hmm I hadn't thought about the capacity :D
10:52<nielsm>I'd say just be traditional with zero-capcity powered driving cars at each end and unpowered cars along the entire rest of the train
10:52<andythenorth>yeah
10:53<andythenorth>hmm, less ugly train I could draw https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3734/10926416136_d6cb59dd9c_b.jpg
10:53<andythenorth>never got built IRL
10:53<Samu>are these names better https://imgur.com/uMLQvtf
10:55<nielsm>maybe the later versions of the train could also get limited and then full capacity in the cabs, to reflect minituarization or whatever you'd call it
10:56<andythenorth>yes
10:56*andythenorth wondering if 2 generations are enough
10:56<andythenorth>horse generations are usually 30-40 years
10:56<andythenorth>but these trains are 20 years for some reason I forget :P
10:56<andythenorth>less drawing = win
10:57<nielsm>maybe a tick-tock upgrade path?
10:58<nielsm>where a better passenger car becomes available halfway before the major cab upgrade
10:58<andythenorth>higher capacity?
10:58<andythenorth>TGV-Duplex style
10:59<nielsm>for example
11:02<nielsm>imo you should make one of the later generation have all-axles-powered configuration :)
11:02<nielsm>less power on each individual unit, but even power per weight regardless of length
11:03<andythenorth>yeah they're coded that way on all
11:03<andythenorth>it's unrealistic for the early one, but eh
11:03<andythenorth>game world
11:06<andythenorth>hmm
11:06<andythenorth>the middle cars aren't necessarily introduced at same time as cabs :x
11:07<nielsm>right I think we talked about that earlier too :/
11:08<Samu>making the river walk to the sea means i need to touch mode code
11:09<Samu>unrelated to mine
11:09<nielsm>Samu, not necessarily make it always go to the sea
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11:09<nielsm>not don't kill the previous behavior
11:09<andythenorth>the point of the comments is that rivers already go to the see
11:09<andythenorth>sea *
11:09<andythenorth>so let's not regress
11:11<nielsm>https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1780327/51436871-eab15480-1c8c-11e9-85cf-4c0340265c56.png
11:11<nielsm>that one's a good example
11:11<Samu>on more difficult terrain, rivers simply end up into lakes or are not created at all
11:11<nielsm>the river just sort of flows around the top of the hill
11:11<nielsm>that looks really dumb
11:12<andythenorth>I didn't post the most pathological
11:13<nielsm>but really, river generation is really bad in general imo
11:13<nielsm>they should be wider
11:13<nielsm>they should erode terrain
11:13<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9242/Unnamed,%2001-01-2000%233.png
11:13<andythenorth>^ just looks broken
11:13<andythenorth>rivers don't hang around at the top of hills :)
11:13<andythenorth>nor do they fail to connect when 1 tile apart
11:14<Samu>that last screenshot, it's 4 rivers
11:15<Samu>hmm not sure what I can do
11:15<Samu>it's part due to pathfinder and part my demands
11:15<andythenorth>I didn't post it to github because it's too pathological
11:15<andythenorth>the ridge on the hill makes it very hard for the pathfinder
11:16<nielsm>instead of trying to find a path that allows locks to be built everywhere
11:16<andythenorth>but I was able to trigger many many others in testing that *should* have gone to sea :)
11:16<nielsm>keep pathfinding as it is, but try to place some additional river tiles to make locks possible
11:16<andythenorth>what we don't know is whether rivers should be able to terradorm
11:16<andythenorth>terraform *
11:16<Samu>rivers don't terraform
11:17<Samu>I wouldn't even know how to do that
11:17<Samu>it would be during pathfinding
11:17<andythenorth>hmm, how handy, I already drew an unused sprite for this high speed train :P
11:19<Samu>someone with more experience is needed if pathfinding while terraforming occurs
11:21<Samu>i don't know if that is possible nielsm
11:21<Samu>i already place additional river tiles to make locks possible, but that alone isn't enough
11:22<Samu>i had to ensure there's a path to the next lock nearby
11:22<Samu>terrain slopes are heavily conditioned
11:22<Samu>and that's for 90 degrees allowed
11:23<Samu>haven't done anything if 90 degrees are forbidden, it would be even worse
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11:26<Samu>i had fat rivers in an old version of the patch, sec let me find
11:28<Samu>http://i.imgur.com/jTxft7U.png
11:29<Samu>they looked like that
11:32<nielsm>I kind of like that
11:33<Samu>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9242/Unnamed,%2001-01-2000%233.png rivers aren't connected because they're 2 rivers, I only ensure the connection per river
11:33<andythenorth>yes
11:33<andythenorth>but it only looks weird because neither reached the sea
11:33<andythenorth>but it's a hard case on that hill
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11:33<nielsm>the entire production of rivers needs to be rethought imo
11:33<andythenorth>+1
11:34<nielsm>I usually just play with them off in landscape generation because they're just thin squiggles of annoyance littered around, not actually useful for anything
11:35<Samu>locks make everything hard
11:35<andythenorth>well locks should be 1 tile
11:36<andythenorth>but nobody wants to commit to that, because savegames
11:36<nielsm>are rivers produced via pathfinding?
11:36<Samu>if they're 1 tile, my patch wouldn't even be needed
11:36<Samu>yes
11:36<nielsm>then make routes that produce lock-capable cost less
11:36<nielsm>or rather, penalize downward flow that doesn't allow lock placement
11:37<nielsm>so you'll still get a path from spring to sea, just with preference for paths that allow locks
11:37<Samu>well, ok, must understand then what exactly how the pathfinder works in this case
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11:37<Samu>i dont think it pathfinds from start to end
11:38<Samu>it pathfinds from a slope to the next slope flowing down
11:38<Samu>and continues to do so, until it reaches the sea or gets stuck, then transforms the last part into a lake
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11:39<Samu>it's not only 1 pathfind
11:39<Samu>call
11:39<nielsm>oh well
11:39<nielsm>that's just more material in favor of scrapping current river generation completely
11:40<andythenorth>there was a big rainfall rivers patch
11:40<andythenorth>but eh
11:40<andythenorth>what I am curious about
11:41<andythenorth>is why we start at springs and pathfind down
11:41<andythenorth>why don't we start at coast, and pathfind up>?
11:41<Samu>but maybe turning the pathfind into 1 entire call would be a good idea
11:41<andythenorth>we don't need to go between two points
11:41<nielsm>andythenorth I think it only becomes harder to produce a river in reverse
11:41<andythenorth>why? o_O
11:41<andythenorth>it's just a turning algorithm
11:43<andythenorth>don't need a fixed destination
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11:43<andythenorth>just dice roll for a turn, weight by surrounding tile heights
11:44<andythenorth>also, above height level 1, occasionally lower the next tile if ascending
11:44<nielsm>by pathfinding upwards you somewhat lose the ability for multiple rivers to merge, for example
11:44<nielsm>which is imo something you really want to have
11:44<andythenorth>nah, just cache a tile as a fork point
11:44<andythenorth>and then come back to it
11:45<andythenorth>a river is just a tree
11:45<andythenorth>easier to start from top node and work down
11:45<andythenorth>cache the nodes
11:45<andythenorth>iterate each branhc
11:45<andythenorth>branch *
11:47<nielsm>I think you've signed up for this now :P
11:47<andythenorth>I am not a good enough programmer :P
11:48<andythenorth>the current rivers got done because Rubidium crudely repurposed existing pathfinder
11:48<andythenorth>ruthlessly :)
11:48<andythenorth>all the other attempts I have seen are boil-the-ocean reality simulators
11:48<andythenorth>faffing about with flow and gravity and stuff
11:49<andythenorth>but we just want to generate a tree, and render it into tiles
11:52<andythenorth>oh :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strahler_number#River_networks
11:53<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_order
11:55<andythenorth>now we just need someone who likes trees :P
11:55<nielsm>to make a river you need a tree, eh
11:56<nielsm>sounds like a beaver thing
11:57<andythenorth>:P http://www.thecodelesscode.com/case/233
12:06<Samu>RIVER_HASH_SIZE
12:06<Samu>what is a hash :(
12:07<Samu>static const uint RIVER_HASH_SIZE = 8; ///< The number of bits the hash for river finding should have.
12:07<nielsm>a sum of something
12:07<nielsm>which is usually difficult to bring back to the original input value to the hash function
12:07<nielsm>but is useful to quickly compare whether two large inputs are likely to be identical
12:08<nielsm>hash tables and cryptographic hashes
12:08<nielsm>are the most common
12:13<Samu>@calc 1 << 8
12:13<@DorpsGek>Samu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
12:13<nielsm>256
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12:14<Samu>:) ty
12:14<nielsm>1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 <- 8 doublings
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12:14<@planetmaker>@calc 1>>8
12:14<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
12:14<@planetmaker>hm
12:14<@planetmaker>@calc shift(1,8)
12:14<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Error: 'shift' is not a defined function.
12:15<@planetmaker>@calc 2**8
12:15<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 256
12:15<nielsm>learning the series of powers of 2 is a good value in software dev :)
12:15<@planetmaker>it's something which simply sticks after a while, I think
12:15<nielsm>yea
12:16<@planetmaker>I guess the values up to 2**16 are pretty commen :)
12:16<@planetmaker>*common
12:16<nielsm>well, I have 1-17, 20, and 24 remembered, the rest are usually not that useful
12:16<@planetmaker>yepp
12:17<@planetmaker>though not sure I get every digit right for things > 2**12
12:17<Samu>1 << RIVER_HASH_SIZE becomes num_buckets inside AyStar
12:17<Samu>256 buckets
12:18<nielsm>yea it's a hash table
12:22<Samu>seems to be using NPF code
12:22<Samu>not yapf
12:22<@planetmaker>@calc 3 + sqrt(-1)
12:23<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 3+i
12:23<@planetmaker>:)
12:24<@planetmaker>@convert 1 mph to kph
12:24<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1.609344
12:25<Samu>@convert 1 kph to 1 kp-ish h
12:25<@DorpsGek>Samu: Error: 1kp-ishh is not a valid unit.
12:25<Samu>kek
12:27<Samu>static inline uint TileHash(uint x, uint y)
12:27<Samu>{
12:27<Samu> uint hash = x >> 4;
12:27<Samu> hash ^= x >> 6;
12:27<Samu> hash ^= y >> 4;
12:27<Samu> hash -= y >> 6;
12:27<Samu> return hash;
12:27<Samu>}
12:28<Samu>too complex for me
12:28<nielsm>it's not important what the hash is
12:28<nielsm>it's just used to speed up certain lookups
12:29<nielsm>it shouldn't have any bearing on the actual algorithm
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12:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro requested changes for pull request #27: Update: README.md is now more verbose and even contains a FAQ https://git.io/fhuyh
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12:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #6965: Add: Four alternative town cargo generation methods https://git.io/fhuSA
13:05<Samu>xtree
13:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6965: Add: Four alternative town cargo generation methods https://git.io/fhu9s
13:06<Samu>C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio\2017\Community\VC\Tools\MSVC\14.16.27023\include\xtree
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13:06<Samu>doesn't look like it's part of openttd
13:06<Borg>toskete!! I mean.. hi
13:06<Borg>what 'unmasked' means in GRF debug window for callbacks?
13:07<Borg>I changed some tiles via act0.. and now.. animations seems to not working at all
13:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #6965: Add: Four alternative town cargo generation methods https://git.io/fhu9W
13:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #6965: Add: Four alternative town cargo generation methods https://git.io/fhu9o
13:16<Borg>! *00 09 03 01 1D 08 1D 09 1D 0A 0A 08
13:17<Borg>property 11 not touched...
13:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fhu97
13:18<Samu>what's a breadth first search
13:18<Samu>another pathfinder?
13:18<LordAro>Samu: sort of
13:18<Samu>tile finder it seems, and it's marking tiles with xtree
13:18<LordAro>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadth-first_search reminder that OTTD does nothing especially original, in terms of algorithms
13:18<Samu>what is xtree
13:19<LordAro>i have no idea
13:19<LordAro>other than it being part of VS, given the path you posted
13:19<LordAro>i'm sure google will tell you
13:25<Samu> class set
13:25<Samu> : public _Tree<_Tset_traits<_Kty, _Pr, _Alloc, false>>
13:25<Samu> { // ordered red-black tree of key values, unique keys
13:25<Samu>now in english plz
13:25<Samu>hehe
13:27<Samu>std::set<TileIndex> marks;
13:28<nielsm>LordAro: I don't see the alignment things you're pointing to, they look aligned to me?
13:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhuHI
13:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #27: Update: README.md is now more verbose and even contains a FAQ https://git.io/fhuqd
13:29<TrueBrain>now it is up to andythenorth :P
13:29<TrueBrain>btw, DigitalOcean mailed back .. basically, they response: look here, a ticket, vote for it if you want it. Owh, and here, a guide to do exactly what I said in my question that I did not want to do that
13:30<TrueBrain>so .. not super useful reply :(
13:30<LordAro>sounds about right
13:30<TrueBrain>so I am doing it the most ugliest way I can think of, the IPv4/IPv6 bla
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13:31<TrueBrain>at least they did read my questions; so at least it is a good support :) Just the answers .. I found those too by googling :) Was hoping a bit more in-depth, I guess
13:31<andythenorth>oof
13:31*andythenorth is going for drinks, no PRs for me :P
13:31<andythenorth>soz
13:31<LordAro>nielsm: https://i.imgur.com/c6pG9D4.png this is what github shows me (see the addition of the line)
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13:32<TrueBrain>no rush andythenorth
13:32<LordAro>the review boxes make it hard to see
13:32<TrueBrain>I wont fix the IPv6 stuff before next weekend anyway
13:32<andythenorth>also... "unfinished" :P https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9247/high-speed-pax.png
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13:34<nielsm>LordAro: https://0x0.st/sFiA.png
13:34<TrueBrain>hmm .. Azure Pipelines broke .. "2019-01-20T18:34:35.2769753Z ##[error]Error: Moved Permanently" .. on GitHub release publish
13:34<TrueBrain>that is just annoying
13:36<LordAro>nielsm: how interesting, i shall blame GH
13:36<LordAro>unless there's a hidden tab character in there or something silly
13:37<nielsm>commit checker would have caught tabs
13:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #6928: Fix #5713: Use pathfinder to find closest ship depot https://git.io/fhuH0
13:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fhuHg
13:40<Samu>how come there are conflicts? :(
13:42<Samu>no conflicts here, only there?
13:42<Samu>must test again
13:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuqz
13:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #27: Update: README.md is now more verbose and even contains a FAQ https://git.io/fhuyh
13:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fNanB
13:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7075: Fix: [AzurePipelines] the repository OpenTTD-CF is renamed to CompileFarm https://git.io/fhuHX
13:45<Samu>why don't you use svn style revision? :|
13:45<Samu>svn still exists
13:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7075: Fix: [AzurePipelines] the repository OpenTTD-CF is renamed to CompileFarm https://git.io/fhuHD
13:46<Samu>At revision: 24318
13:47<TrueBrain>LordAro: well ... it seems the redirect is a bit weird. Uploads failed now on the old URL, but still worked for a bit of time
13:47<TrueBrain>not sure how they do that :P
13:47<TrueBrain>better safe than sorry :D
13:47<LordAro>interesting
13:47<TrueBrain>only a dismissal of the README? Not even an approve? :P
13:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuH9
13:51<LordAro>TrueBrain: have some patience! :p
13:51<TrueBrain>NO!
13:51<TrueBrain>:D
13:52<LordAro>how rude
13:52<TrueBrain>:(
13:52<TrueBrain>I know :(
13:52<LordAro>:p
13:52<TrueBrain>its cold outside
13:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #27: Update: README.md is now more verbose and even contains a FAQ https://git.io/fhuQe
13:53<TrueBrain>:D \o/
13:53<TrueBrain>tnx LordAro!
13:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro closed issue #26: Update README https://git.io/fhutH
13:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #27: Update: README.md is now more verbose and even contains a FAQ https://git.io/fhuqd
13:53<nielsm>LordAro, types fixed for the house accepts :)
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13:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fhu97
13:54<LordAro>nielsm: still needs someone who actually knows GRFs to approve it, imo :>
13:54<nielsm>meh!
13:54<nielsm>!poke frosch123
13:54<TrueBrain>so nobody?
13:54<TrueBrain>:P
13:56<@planetmaker>I kinda feel the same. Though if you want I can become the "meh, I just approve it" guy :P
13:56<LordAro>planetmaker: i thought that was my job
13:57<nielsm>it's basically the same pattern as the industries 16 in/out patch which was already merged :)
13:57<nielsm>except houses are simpler
13:57<TrueBrain>"trust me, I know what I am doing"
13:57<TrueBrain>:D
13:57<nielsm>exactly!
13:58<@planetmaker>hehe. exactly that :P
13:59<@planetmaker>nielsm, does that work with town cargoes in all 16 slots?
14:00*andythenorth wonders
14:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7075: Fix: [AzurePipelines] the repository OpenTTD-CF is renamed to CompileFarm https://git.io/fhuHX
14:00<@planetmaker>*town effect cargoes
14:00<andythenorth>when will 'vehicle ctrl-click counter var' patch be done? :P
14:00<andythenorth>pretty simple, it's just a byte, incrementing each type player ctrl-clicks the vehicle
14:01<andythenorth>rolls over to 0 after 16 clicks
14:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6935: Prevent water construction where it could block nearby ships https://git.io/fhuQs
14:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #6935: Prevent water construction where it could block nearby ships https://git.io/fxno7
14:01<andythenorth>vehicle_is_flipped is then mod(2) of ctrl-click-counter
14:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6980: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType https://git.io/fhuQc
14:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #6980: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType https://git.io/fhuQW
14:03<TrueBrain>hmm .. GitHub has a bit of issues to show of branches if they are already merged
14:03<TrueBrain>I guess because of the rebasing
14:03<TrueBrain>it still thinks it is new
14:03<TrueBrain>annoying
14:03<LordAro>mm
14:05<Samu>oh no LordAro :|
14:05<Samu>ok, what about limiting it only to industries?
14:06<Samu>they can automatically spawn with a 0.00001% chance to dead-lock ships
14:06<Samu>kek
14:06<LordAro>yeah... not worth the effort, i'm afraid :p
14:06<Samu>usually firs industries
14:06<andythenorth>why don't we cache contiguous blocks of water?
14:06<andythenorth>in a pool?
14:06<LordAro>andythenorth said in the original issue that he was unable to trigger it, so it must be something like a frame perfect issue
14:07<LordAro>andythenorth: a swimming pool
14:07<andythenorth>:P
14:07<andythenorth>it would be expensive to compute once, but trivial to update
14:07<andythenorth>there are n contiguous blocks on any map
14:07<andythenorth>construction: adds, merges, or changes blocks
14:08<LordAro>nielsm: any chance of a review for #7022 ?
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14:08<andythenorth>if a block is contiguous a ship can route to anything on it
14:08<andythenorth>a ship is attached to a block
14:09<andythenorth>ships can only route to depots, docks, bouys etc in their block
14:09<andythenorth>any others, effectively don't exist
14:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhuQy
14:12<andythenorth>hmm if some metadata about contiguous blocks could be exposed
14:12<andythenorth>I could stop port industries building in tiny lakes :P
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14:12<andythenorth>the blocks could be calculated when placing the tiles
14:12<andythenorth>also bye
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14:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhZ7Z
14:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6935: Prevent water construction where it could block nearby ships https://git.io/fhu7f
14:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7029: #6315 Rail fences in snow or desert https://git.io/fhu7t
14:23<Samu>I don't understand how could there be conflicts
14:23<Samu>just retested here, it built, didn't conflict
14:24<LordAro>did you update your copy of master first?
14:24<Samu>oh, no, ok let me try that
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14:25<Gabda>hello!
14:26<Samu>ah, there are conflicts *now*, there weren't any before
14:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhu7c
14:26<LordAro>Samu: almost as if master has been changing!
14:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhu78
14:28<Gabda>Can I your opinion on PR 7025 vs 7047?
14:28<Gabda>*ask your
14:28<LordAro>@topic get 3
14:28<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask
14:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh requested changes for pull request #7022: Add: generate_widget.vbs to allow script_window.hpp enums generation … https://git.io/fhu7g
14:30<nielsm>there :)
14:30<LordAro>lol
14:30<nielsm>going to study it in detail later
14:31<Samu>ah
14:31<Samu>v->dest_tile was changed
14:31<Samu>v->SetDestTile
14:33<Samu>the cache stuff was merged, i see
14:33<Samu>im surprised there's only 1 conflict
14:33<Samu>and it's not even yapf related
14:34<TrueBrain>hmm ... how do I trigger a release based on the finishing of another release .. hmmmmmm
14:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7040: Fix: Round up deltas for smooth scrolling, so that target will eventually be reached https://git.io/fhu5O
14:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7040: Fix: Round up deltas for smooth scrolling, so that target will eventually be reached https://git.io/fhnn8
14:44*peter1138 is home.
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>it's not what it looks like
14:46<Samu>wow, i can finally run openttd in debug mode with 5000 ships
14:46<Samu>nice improvement
14:46<@peter1138>You're welcome.
14:46<@peter1138>And only with YAPF, of course.
14:47<Samu>i need to check whether caching while searching for depot is worth it now
14:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhu58
14:51<Samu>it returns the depot location, which was just pathfound
14:51<Samu>that path could have been cached
14:51<Samu>otherwise, shipchosetrack will pathfind again next tile
14:51<Samu>pathfinder is called again, and this time it caches path
14:51<Samu>so i guess the answer is yes
14:53<Samu>what if I was only interested in knowing the depot location
14:53<Samu>hmm
14:53<Samu>caching the path to depot would screw the ship
14:53<Samu>must think
15:02<nielsm>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7022 -- turns out it's because the vbscript doesn't handle unix line endings, and my copy is checked out with unix line endings
15:02<nielsm>if I unix2dos the file it generates zero changes to the file
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15:03<LordAro>heh
15:03<LordAro>both scripts should probably be able to cope with both
15:04<nielsm>or at least have the vbscript abort if it looks fishy
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15:05<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure you can force git to use windows line endings
15:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhu5Q
15:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7022: Add: generate_widget.vbs to allow script_window.hpp enums generation … https://git.io/fhu55
15:06<nielsm>Eddi|zuHause yea you can
15:06<nielsm>I just haven't
15:06<nielsm>but maybe I should :P
15:06<+glx>hmm nice noe
15:06<+glx>*one
15:09<Samu>ok no need for me to do anything
15:10<Samu>because sending a ship to depot is not just 1 simple step apparently
15:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7065: Change: Make ships stop and change direction slowly instead of instantly turning. https://git.io/fhude
15:10<@peter1138>Samu, what are you trying to achieve?
15:11<Samu>was wondering whether caching was worth it for my patch
15:11<Samu>find ship depot using pathfinders
15:11<Samu>but it's not
15:11<@peter1138>Ah for finding the depot.
15:12<@peter1138>Once it's found it, it'll be cached.
15:12<Samu>it goes through some DoCommand stuff
15:12<@peter1138>So yeah, probably not.
15:12<+glx>nielsm: probably because line 179
15:12<Samu>DoCommand stuff involves multiplayer crap
15:12<+glx>I though it was a smart idea to skip temporary file usage
15:13<@peter1138>If we can do that for the language files (.tmp) then that'd be good ;)
15:13<@peter1138>I don't really like that 25MB "temporary" file sitting around.
15:13<Samu>speaking of multiplayer, is this multiplayer sync ready? :p
15:13<@peter1138>Is what?
15:14<Samu>caching while joining a multiplayer game won't cause desync?
15:14<@peter1138>It should be fine, the cache is actually saved in the savegame.
15:14<Samu>nice, nice
15:15<LordAro>peter1138: i wonder whether it was worth caching such a thing
15:15<LordAro>saving*
15:15<@peter1138>I suppose technically the caches could've been saved on saving, but... uh... I went overboard :p
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15:15<@peter1138>LordAro, well it's done now.
15:15<LordAro>indeed
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15:18<Samu>what was the other request from LordAro
15:20<Samu>how do I mention the commit conflicting with mine?
15:20<Samu>81330b8d6edee68c38717462737fbfca6420701d ?
15:20<@peter1138>Why do you need to mention it?
15:20<LordAro>don't mention it
15:20<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/81330b8d6edee68c38717462737fbfca6420701d
15:21<Samu>ok
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15:22<@peter1138>What do you do with conflicts is you resolve them.
15:23<nielsm>when you rebase you resolve the conflict as part of the rebase, there is no additional commit
15:23<nielsm>when you merge you resolve the conflict as part of the merge commit
15:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhud0
15:24<LordAro>btw, i'm adding "needs-triage" labels to PRs that need discussion about whether they're a Good Feature
15:28<@peter1138>Should I revert the savegame change?
15:29<LordAro>it is a quite a bit of code that perhaps isn't all that necessary
15:29<LordAro>but ultimately up to you :p
15:31<LordAro>nielsm: oh, i know what caused the alignment issue - github (or maybe firefox) uses ligatures in its monospace font...
15:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] George-VB commented on issue #6908: Request: Persistent storage for vehicles https://git.io/fhudi
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15:32<Samu>so, a "blind search" is technically a first breadth search?
15:33<LordAro>depends where you got "blind search" from :p
15:33<Samu>breadth first search
15:33<Samu>it searching all tiles for one that matches the condition "I am a depot"
15:34<LordAro>but "breadth-first" search is, generally, a very suboptimal algorithm for finding the shortest path, though it is guaranteed to actually find the shortest path
15:35<Samu> that's what i made then
15:35<Samu>pathfind suboptimal for the shortest path to a tile that is "I am a depot"
15:35<Samu>english
15:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7022: Add: generate_widget.vbs to allow script_window.hpp enums generation … https://git.io/fhsWa
15:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7022: Add: generate_widget.vbs to allow script_window.hpp enums generation … https://git.io/fhudF
15:38<@peter1138>Heh, it saves about 1 second of high load ;/
15:38<@peter1138>Oh well, at least we can saveload some std:: stuff if we ever need to.
15:38<LordAro>peter1138: surprisingly high, how many ships?
15:38<@peter1138>5000.
15:38<LordAro>ah, lol
15:39<@peter1138>Yeah.
15:39<LordAro>how long is the load in total?
15:39<@peter1138>Depends on the CPU :p
15:39<@peter1138>I'm a high-end CPU so..
15:40<LordAro>so does the amount of time saved :p
15:40<LordAro>how much for you?
15:41<@peter1138>Hmm?
15:41<@peter1138>Anyway.
15:42<@peter1138>Now we *have* the path cache, I'm tempted to partially revert the change that lead to #7062.
15:42<LordAro>what percentage of the loading time is "saved" by saving the ship paths in the save
15:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #6908: Request: Persistent storage for vehicles https://git.io/fhudx
15:42<LordAro>peter1138: good plan though
15:44<Samu>I have a trash pentium cpu laptop from 2001 somewhere, can only run 32-bit versions of openttd on windows xp
15:44<Samu>have it somewhere
15:44<Samu>would have to find it
15:44<LordAro>i suspect you're not going to win the "who has the oldest computer" argument amongst the people here :p
15:45<LordAro>far too many greybeards
15:45<+glx>I still have working pentium 133MMX
15:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7061: Fix #6583: Rework Tileheight handling (patch by adf88) https://git.io/fhuFJ
15:46<+glx>well was working last time I used it ;)
15:48<@peter1138>I've got a Sun SparcStation in the loft.
15:48<@peter1138>Might be a 2.
15:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fhuFO
15:49<@peter1138>40 Mhz MIPS CPU.
15:49<+glx>hehe
15:49<LordAro>very nice
15:54<@peter1138>Also a P90 laptop. Maybe a 486 laptop, not sure.
15:55<Samu>oh well then u guys can test it
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15:56<+glx>I'm not even sure we can still compile a win9x version
15:57-!-D-HUND is now known as debdog
15:57<LordAro>i imagine it's been a while since anyone tried
15:57<LordAro>hardest part is probably finding a new enough compiler
15:57<+glx>old MSYS used to work for that
15:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6928: Fix #5713: Use pathfinder to find closest ship depot https://git.io/fhZzm
15:59<+glx>maybe MSYS2 could too with the right defines to force older win32 api
16:00<+glx>I think it defaults to XP SP2
16:00<+glx>but that may not be enough
16:01<+glx>might require an arch flag too
16:01<Samu>the conflict has been solved https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6928/files#diff-fa888affc2f63e5d03e59e88c34d30f3R214
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16:01<+glx>for older cpus
16:01<Samu>the request was not attended
16:02<Samu>i dont know what to do with nielsmh code, it does some weird thing
16:03<Samu>a "never seen before" behaviour
16:04<Samu>it displays the order it's following and it can change it suddenly into another
16:04<+glx>if it's really needed, we'll wait for a PR doing it
16:04<Samu>it's by intention but it looks weird
16:05<+glx>and I won't do it :)
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16:06<Samu>then when searching for a depot where the pathfinder doesn't return "is lost" in that for loop, it's ... it's... suboptimal imo
16:07<Samu>pathfinds N times, until it gets a "path found" from the pathfinder
16:08<Samu>it's what I had at first for OPF, but i changed it, and there were gains in cpu usage
16:08<nielsm>I'm not saying my suggestion is good code or correct, I'm not very acquiainted with the pathfinding
16:08<nielsm>tried making something to demonstrate my idea
16:09<nielsm>didn't get it working quite as intended
16:09<nielsm>uploaded it regardless
16:09<nielsm>didn't want to put too much effort into something I see as a non-issue
16:11<Samu>i tested your approach with the 5000 savegame
16:11<Samu>there were multiple stalls for at least 3 seconds each
16:12<Samu>some 4-5 noticeable repeated stalls
16:16<Samu>my old approach for opf was similar, it would pathfind for "every" depot
16:17<Samu>and return the one with the smallest cost
16:17<Samu>would stall once only, but would stall for 14,6 seconds
16:18<+glx>pathfind for every depot is intensive
16:18<Samu>my new approach, the breadth first search stalls for 4.7 seconds
16:19<Samu>if my prs weren't closed, i could make it go further down to 3.4 seconds
16:19<Samu>or 2.1 seconds with 90 degrees forbidden :|
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16:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6928: Fix #5713: Use pathfinder to find closest ship depot https://git.io/fhuby
16:35<Samu>It is useful however to prefer 'lockable' slopes where possible. If none are available, allowing flow downslope is better than rejecting.
16:35<Samu>andythenorth, that basically means, don't use the patch :(
16:37<Samu>the river is generated without any terraform
16:37<Samu>don't know what to do
16:37<Samu>adapt the terrain by terraforming would probably be the answer, but how
16:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7072: Change: Add path cache for ships https://git.io/fhuNs
16:40<Samu>i'd need a different set of terraformstate rules
16:40<Samu>than the default one
16:41<Samu>TerraLockForm
16:41<Samu>kek
16:42<Samu>and it would have to be done earlier
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16:42<Samu>during the terrain formation, the first steps very much
16:43<Samu>hmm
16:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhnon
16:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above the widgets https://git.io/fhuN4
16:44<Samu>who's the TerraGenesis expert here?
16:44<@peter1138>richk
16:44<Samu>that's where I need to touch
16:51<Samu>Sprite
16:51<Samu>there are terrain forms in form of Sprite template?
16:51<Samu>or
16:52<Samu>where's the original generator code?
16:52<Samu>seems like pieces of puzzle that fit together
16:53<Samu>maybe i can create a puzzle piece that is lock-friendly
16:53<@peter1138>Yes, there are.
16:54<Samu>but then i'm touching the original generator and not terragenesis :(
16:54<@peter1138>Yup.
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17:02<Samu>base perlin noise generator
17:02<Samu>it's a heightmap?
17:03<Samu>funny how things work in detail
17:05<Samu>static const double extrapolation_factors[] = { 3.3, 2.8, 2.3, 1.8 };
17:05<Samu>what's a double?
17:05<Samu>first time i see it
17:05<nielsm>:o
17:06<nielsm>it's a IEEE 754 double precision floating point number
17:09<@peter1138>Shame I lost all my map tweaks :/
17:10<@peter1138>Oh! I just found it.
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17:40<Samu>pow.asm not found :|
17:49<nielsm>are you trying to step the debugger into the pow() function?
17:49<nielsm>youi know what it does, right?
17:49<nielsm>it calculates x to the power of y
17:49<nielsm>exponentiation
17:50<Samu>was following code sin.asm
17:50<nielsm>why...
17:50<nielsm>it's just standard math library functions
17:50<nielsm>you can assume those do what it says on the tin
17:50<LordAro>you know what trigonometry is, right,
17:50<LordAro>*?
17:51<Samu>ah, so that's it
17:52<LordAro>for the love of god, read some documentation
17:52<LordAro>or google
17:52<LordAro>or at least notice when a function is external to ottd
17:55<nielsm>the only time you should need to read assembly when working on ottd is if you need to reverse engineer something from the original game for some reason
17:55<LordAro>(which was done entirely more than 15 years ago)
17:55<nielsm>(except for the music drivers!!)
17:55<LordAro>more or less
17:55<LordAro>nielsm: yeah, and no one cared :p
17:56<nielsm>:(
17:56<LordAro><3
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18:16<Samu>ah, interesting discovery
18:17<Samu>apparently it does really pathfind from spring to end
18:17<Samu>have to examine this better
18:19<Samu>amdsecgs.asm this one appears too often
18:19<Samu>__security_check_cookie
18:20<Samu>let me google
18:20<nielsm>it's a debug thing
18:20<nielsm>in visual c++
18:20<nielsm>that checks whether there have been buffer overruns and such
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18:26<Samu>return DistanceManhattan(spring, begin) > _settings_game.game_creation.min_river_length;
18:26<Samu>distancemanhattan for determining river length?
18:26<Samu>that's not right, imo
18:27<Samu>should be number of tiles turned into river
18:27<Samu>but.. k
18:30<Samu>this is checked before pathfinder is called, hmm so it's a compromise
18:36<Samu>FindSpring code is interesting, its not any random location where it decides to start a river
18:36<Samu>must obey some tile heights of nearby tiles
18:47<Samu>ah no, it doesn't pathfind from start to finish, it pathfinds in multiple segments
18:47<Samu>I was right the first time
18:53<Samu>on this river
18:53<Samu>https://imgur.com/Ye07W4x
18:53<Samu>the pathfinder is invoked 5 times
18:53<Samu>and in 3 cases is to pathfind to the tile next door
18:54<Samu>kek
18:55<Samu>actually 2 case
18:55<Samu>s
18:57<Samu>pathfinds 4 times, not 5
18:57<Samu>wait, 5
18:57<Samu>it's 5
18:59<@peter1138>Okay, so I have a translations.vbs now
19:02<Samu>i think if the river would pathfind from start to finish it wouldn't be so cpu intensive, instead of pathfinding segments
19:02<Samu>but
19:02<Samu>would require river design change
19:02<Samu>logic, rules or that
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: how about fixing eints to update the .ob? files?
19:05<Samu>@calc (8 * 2 + 1) * (8 * 2 + 1) * 128
19:05<@DorpsGek>Samu: 36992
19:06<Samu>you guys really like the circular tile search
19:07<Samu>even if it repeats tiles
19:07<@peter1138>Because that's a workaround, not a solution.
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20:30<Samu>I found a temporary solution to enforce rivers are connected from where it springs to sea level as the end.
20:31<Samu>but that means, there are no more lakes, and that also means less rivers
20:32<Samu>unless I increase the number of tries
20:32<Samu>which would also make it take longer to generate a world
20:33<Samu>brute forcing rivers to be created by doing more tries
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20:51<Samu>@calc (2 * 2 + 1) * (2 * 2 + 1) * 128
20:51<@DorpsGek>Samu: 3200
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21:39<Samu>I'm experimenting some other variables and checks
21:39<Samu>making the FindSpring function not start next to another river in a radius of 8 tiles
21:40<Samu>and making lakes to be generated only if it had flowed down at least two times
21:42<Samu>this may result in rivers a bit more sparse
21:42<Samu>more connections to the sea, and perhaps less lakes
21:43<Samu>avoids the disaster that andythenorth shown me https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9242/Unnamed,%2001-01-2000%233.png
21:43<Samu>but i'm afraid this would also mean less rivers overall
21:43<Samu>or more time generating rivers
21:44<Samu>because it's trying harder
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23:45<Eddi|zuHause>someone ate the moon!
23:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #6980: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType https://git.io/fpEtn
23:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc dismissed a review for pull request #6980: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType https://git.io/fhuQW
---Logclosed Mon Jan 21 00:00:30 2019