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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-01-30

---Logopened Wed Jan 30 00:00:42 2019
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00:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas opened pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
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00:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
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00:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] akoscomp opened pull request #49: update about.html
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01:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
01:39<andythenorth>so I should turn breakdowns on for my games?
01:41<Pikka>breakdowns are "fun", inasmuch as predicable gameplay is "unfun".
01:52<andythenorth>probably have to set reliability in my newgrfs?
01:52<andythenorth>or not, just let OpenTTD do it :)
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02:44*Pikka is banging his head over code which is supposed to stop houses being built near industries not working
02:45<Pikka>until I realise the map generator places the towns before the industries
02:45<Pikka>so of course it won't work on a newly-generated map
02:53<andythenorth>I have nothing :P
03:06<@peter1138>I wonder how maps would look if it alternated between towns and industries?
03:08<Pikka>well, it associates the industries with the nearest town when it places them, right?
03:08<@peter1138>Yeah so it'll still be after.
03:09<@peter1138>But then another town comes along, and that one will be after.
03:09<@peter1138>But still, most likely it wouldn't affect your issue much at all, perhaps just make it even more confusing as it "sometimes works".
03:09<Pikka>yes, how it is now is still best
03:10<Pikka>too many issues with doing anything else. and I can easily force-remove the houses if I really care about it.
03:10<andythenorth>trying to keep towns away from industries? o_O
03:11<@peter1138>Hmm, I should enable TaI again. The sprawlyness was nice.
03:11<Pikka>just stopping nice residential buildings right up against industries
03:11<andythenorth>yeah TaI is winning town set
03:12<andythenorth>TaI, Av9.8 and that bridge grf
03:12<@peter1138>Yeah, that one.
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03:12<@peter1138>(Which bridge grf?)
03:12<andythenorth>dunno there are loads
03:13<andythenorth>expensive, short and slow
03:13<@peter1138>Oh yeah, 1.8.0 still crashes due to ICU.
03:13<andythenorth>nobody went back and fixed all the 1.8.0 binaries? :o
03:14<andythenorth>probably better do 1.9 soon then
03:14<@peter1138>Okay I guess I'll figure out that regression failure.
03:16<@peter1138>It was much easier to sort out the sprites after I split them into new files. No image conflicts!
03:23<@peter1138>ai/regression/ -g < starts it in gdb
03:23<LordAro>howdy morning crew
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03:35<@peter1138>Ok, when did we reduce the mapsize by 1 in each direction?
03:38<Pikka>we did?
03:53<@peter1138>A while back.
03:54<@peter1138>I believe we added MP_VOID tiles around the top of the map.
03:55<@peter1138>I'm not sure why.
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04:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened issue #7142: Assertion when building long road at map border
04:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7142: Assertion when building long road at map border
04:12<LordAro>how exciting
04:12<@peter1138>Seems we have missed tile bounds checking since most maps have MP_VOID at the edges these days.
04:12<@peter1138>But old maps don't, and you can still disable that setting.
04:13<@peter1138>So why did we add MP_VOID around the top edges? If it was to avoid crashes like this, then it's not right :p
04:13<@peter1138>If it is, we need to update the regression test savegame.
04:14<@peter1138> (svn r15190) -Feature: Allow terraforming of the tiles at the edges of the map.
04:16<@peter1138>On the other hand, it should be simple to fix this CmdBuildLongRoad
04:18<@peter1138>The actual bug was introduced in 2012.
04:18<@peter1138>CanConnectToRoad() doesn't check for bounds.
04:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7143: Fix #7142: Missing map bounds check when building long roads.
04:26<@peter1138>And now I work :p
04:26<@peter1138>(Probably took me longer to fill in the template than to fix it ;))
04:26<@peter1138>But, gotta set a good example, eh?
04:29<@peter1138>Okay, regression test fails but doesn't crash now.
04:29<@peter1138>Oh yes, work :p
04:30*peter1138 quickly runs regression tests on work stuff so it's ambiguous
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05:00<LordAro>peter1138: :D
05:01<LordAro>peter1138: if it helps, i've occasionally been using ottd to test our own tools at work as well :p
05:02<LordAro>peter1138: i really feel that crash should've been noticed earlier
05:05<@planetmaker>people don't build roads at the map edge usually... I guess. But ... 7 years for that to not surface?
05:05<@planetmaker>moin also
05:10<@planetmaker>though... it only triggers on ancient savegames
05:10<@planetmaker>when you change a setting on them
05:12<@planetmaker>in essence: I'm not exactly able to produce a map which triggers it :P
05:16<andythenorth>I use OpenTTD to test work stuff
05:17<andythenorth>I built a couple of UI libraries which use the same python compile as andy newgrfs
05:20<@peter1138>planetmaker, needs freeform_edges to be false, which is rare. It's not setting in the GUI.
05:21<andythenorth>settings explosion :)
05:22<@peter1138>Oops, I accidentally committed an openttd.grf!
05:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
05:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7143: Fix #7142: Missing map bounds check when building long roads.
05:26<@peter1138>Files which the build process modifies shouldn't be in git ;(
05:38<LordAro>it's not *very* different to having an autotools configure in your repo
05:46<@peter1138>Who even uses that any more? :D
05:50*Sacro runs ./
05:54<@peter1138>LordAro, and actually, those projects that do use autotools still don't put those generated files in git.
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06:37*andythenorth deletes a chunk of UI design
06:37<andythenorth>made, it refined it, deleted it
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06:48<@peter1138>Is it lunch time yet?
06:48<@peter1138>I've been trying to make some error handling work. But it errors.
06:48<LordAro>yo dawg
06:49*peter1138 eats a 'Teaser Celebration instead.
07:01<andythenorth>such very trains
07:02<andythenorth>wagons moving by gravity? o_O
07:02<andythenorth>what railtype is that :P
07:23<Pikka>how much TE does gravity have?
07:23<andythenorth>some newtons
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07:40<@peter1138>Ok now lunch
07:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
07:56<@planetmaker>at least for 2 out of 2 names I checked, the fix was correct :P
07:57<@peter1138>Needs the commit message to be fixed for the CI.
07:57<@peter1138>Then it'll need approving again.
07:57<@peter1138>Our commit hooks reject non-ASCII commit messages.
07:58<@planetmaker>"Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names" <<-- non ascii?
07:58<@peter1138>That's the title.
07:58<@planetmaker>Unable to find image 'openttd/compile-farm-ci:commit-checker' locally
07:58<@planetmaker>commit-checker: Pulling from openttd/compile-farm-ci <-- that's the failure :| stupid MS
07:59<@peter1138>Many of these town names were using the 'ã' character, which should
07:59<@peter1138>actually by 'ă'. There were other missing accents as well which I've
07:59<@peter1138>^ is the message
07:59<@peter1138>It's not MS.
07:59<@peter1138>This time :D
07:59<@planetmaker>ah... bah, stupid way the errors are shown. Very stupid
08:01<@peter1138>Jenkins was a little better.
08:01<@planetmaker>we had Atlassian's bamboo
08:01<@peter1138>Loads of clicks with Azura Pipelines.
08:02<@planetmaker>but yes, Jenkins is a bit easier there, too
08:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker requested changes for pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
08:04<@planetmaker>dunno how I could have dismissed my review before :P
08:11<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> Unable to find image 'openttd/compile-farm-ci:commit-checker' locally <-- that bit is because it's parsing the output in a wrong way, i think... TrueBrain said "it can be fixed, but somebody has to do it" and i have no clue where to even begin looking for what to change
08:11<LordAro>not sure you can disamiss an approving review
08:12<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: :p
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: not helpful :p
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>also, there's a second issue where the azure errors (assuming they have been reduced to the relevant bit) don't get propagated to github, where TrueBrain said it only does that for the windows builds
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08:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
08:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
08:48<@peter1138>^ planetmaker
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08:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
08:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
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09:14<Samu>what I thought was an easy fix, turns out to be complex
09:14<Samu>i still don't know how to fix it without touching too many code
09:15<@peter1138>If you still intend to do it, you don't need to close the PR.
09:15<@peter1138>Oh, it was closed 3 days ago. Never mind.
09:15<Samu>closed by me :|
09:16<Samu>I mean, I have it fixed on my ai gui topic
09:16<Samu>it's just that...
09:16<Samu>I have different rules to what is enabled or disabled
09:17<Samu>than those in the master
09:17<Samu>and those in the master are quite with buggy behaviour in scenario editor
09:18<Samu>so, I'm unsure how to apply the fix
09:19<Samu>besides, there's yet the other underlying issue I opened yesterday, that GS's become automatically active upon loading a save
09:19<Samu>it would also impact what is enabled or disabled
09:20<Samu>this is not fixed on my ai gui
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09:21<Samu>something that was supposedly an easy fix, turns out to be complex
09:22<LordAro>funny that
09:25<Samu>don't know how to approach this
09:27<Samu>if i change the master rules for the reset button, i'd also have to change the rules applied everywhere else in the gui. This touches many windows
09:28<Samu>for consistency purposes
09:28<Samu>okay, first things first
09:29<Samu>expose the problem
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09:41<Samu>oh, that's about the ability to select the GS in the config window
09:41<Samu>yeah, Zuu was on the right direction
09:42<Samu>I went further and made every slot selectable
09:42<Samu>not exactly related
09:43<supermop_work_>Pikka: might try getting back to northern bits of aus this coming summer/your winter
09:43<Samu>to my issue at hand
09:44<Pikka>it might even have cooled down a bit by then, supermop_work_ :D
09:46<supermop_work_>going to a wedding in melbourne in august, so want escape the rain down there for a few days
09:46<supermop_work_>might go up to the pointy bit
09:47<Pikka>hmm, pointy bit
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09:48<Eddi|zuHause>the northern part is where nobody lives?
09:48<supermop_work_>that's the middle
09:49<supermop_work_>people live around the edges
09:49<supermop_work_>trees live in the pointy part i guess
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but most of the edge people are in the south?
09:49<supermop_work_>south / east
09:52<Pikka>well edgy
09:52*Pikka gnight
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09:52<Eddi|zuHause>i've seen some video about flat earth theories, and one thing they apparently like to do there is picking out some random connection and taking there being no direct flights on that connection as "proof" that the earth is flat
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>and one of these connections was something like "Johannesburg to Perth"
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>completely ignoring that a) there actually are (rare, but regular) direct connections, and b) demand might not warrant that kind of connection
09:56<supermop_work_>mostly commuting surfers i imagine
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09:58<Eddi|zuHause>(the point they're trying to make is that for typical flat earth projections, longitudinal distances in the southern hemisphere appear much larger than on "globe" projections, and lack of these direct connections is being seen as "proof" that the real distances are actually longer)
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10:16<Samu>if a GS has died, i save the game, and load, should the gs still be dead?
10:16<Samu>it currently makes it alive
10:18<Samu>the information about the instance being dead or alive should be saved imo
10:18<Samu>don't you think?
10:18<supermop_work_>why would i want it to stay dead?
10:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
10:18<Samu>because it was saved as dead
10:19<Samu>im not sure, honestly
10:19<nielsm>if it's dead it either crashed, or it completed
10:19<nielsm>if it has completed it probably shouldn't restart
10:20<nielsm>if it has crashed it may be in an unrecoverable state and not be safe to restart
10:21<Samu>loading ressurrects it
10:21<Samu>must be fixed then
10:22<Samu>same for AIs
10:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7144: Editable AI/GS Parameters in the 3 game modes
10:28<Samu>I really had to write this down
10:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
10:32<@peter1138>Do I need to edit the template?
10:32<@peter1138>Because you have not actually stated what the problem is in normal words.
10:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
10:33<Samu>i'm still writting to it
10:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
10:33<nielsm>but rushed submitting the ticket to be sure you got that exact issue number?
10:35<nielsm>peter1138, I meant are two modified versions from the same base revision considered equal, i.e. is g12345678M equal to g12345678M (the modifications may be different in each, you can't actually know)
10:35<@peter1138>nielsm, ah, well you can't do much about that.
10:37<@peter1138>We never attempted with svn versions either :)
10:37<@peter1138>Heh, disable all network play with a modified client.
10:37<@peter1138>All changes must be committed :D
10:37<@peter1138>(Joking of course)
10:42<nielsm>then, if including just git hash and modified flag, transform the git hash to base64 to fit it in 27 bytes instead of the 40 for hex?
10:42<nielsm>(so it can be used in full instead of truncated)
10:43<nielsm>actually 28 bytes
10:44<Samu>in the scenario editor, only slot 1 is human player, even though i loaded a scenario with more human players
10:44<nielsm>scenarios assume singleplayer
10:45<nielsm>and the scenario editor is a singleplayer game mode
10:45<nielsm>in itself
10:45<Samu>bad assumption imo
10:47<Samu>i can move ai config slots up and down with ais on it oh, gosh so many issues to report
10:49<Samu>that new issue i created is a tip of an iceberg, a big chunk at least
10:49<Samu>i just fail at explaining...
10:50<nielsm>when you load a saved game that has already been played in normal/network game mode, into the scenario editor, you get tools to violate all kinds of assumptions the game usually makes
10:50<nielsm>so all rules are out the window
10:51<nielsm>and you can't really assume anything about what is sensible or not any more
10:51<nielsm>and the user of the scenario editor may well be able to make changes that break the saved game, but can't be detected as breaking it before loading it back in normal play and letting the simulation run for days, months or years
10:52<nielsm>so trying to prevent someone from doing bad things to savegames loaded in the scenario editor is a futile task imo
10:52<nielsm>and you may as well not attempt at all
10:53<nielsm>infinite whack-a-mole
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10:56<nielsm>also, I'm sure if you attempt to prevent changes to player configuration in a multiplayer game loaded in scenario editor, someone is going to complain that now they can't use their network server to have friends set up a scenario and stuff AIs in it for a singleplayer scenario use
10:57<nielsm>is it guaranteed to work? no. are they allowed to try? yes why not?
10:58<Samu>from my limited understanding, loading a save in scenario editor, also loads saved ai data, which when saved, will be saved exactly as it was loaded
10:58<Samu>changing the settings in the editor might not be a good idea, haven't really attempted to
10:59<Samu>it will not execute a save from the AI script, it's reusing the loaded data
10:59<Samu>it's a "snapshot" of how the AI was at that time
11:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector
11:00<Samu>in a normal game, it won't reuse the just loaded saved data, it's going to request the ai script to execute its save routines
11:01<Samu>it is fine in this case to allow editing the in-game parameters in this situation
11:04<@planetmaker><nielsm> peter1138, I meant are two modified versions from the same base revision considered equal, i.e. is g12345678M equal to g12345678M (the modifications may be different in each, you can't actually know) <-- they might or might not. But we should not care and allow connecting these builds with eachother
11:04<@planetmaker>sorry, unintended, double high-light
11:07<Samu>save stack
11:07<Samu>i followed this somewhere into a save stack
11:07<Samu>already existing
11:07<Samu>will re-save it
11:07<Samu>in scenario editor
11:07<@planetmaker>SE is basically like normal game. Except time progression
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11:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
11:12<Samu>Now, the "Reset" button situation will depend heavily on the outcome of how the parameters should be handled
11:12<Samu>that's why it wasn't a simple fix
11:12<nielsm>so now we'll just need a database to look up network revision strings and convert to "which build do I download" :)
11:12<@planetmaker>how do you mean?
11:13<@planetmaker>or ... what for do we need it?
11:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7130: Codechange: Remove value mangling and field misuse in SLE_WRITEBYTE.
11:13<@planetmaker>it contains the hash, so git will tell us which version to check, doesn't it?
11:13<nielsm>yes, but won't tell a player looking at the server list which version they need
11:14<nielsm>it's great for the programmatic check, not good for displaying in UI
11:14<@planetmaker>do we know the displayed version string of the remote?
11:14<@planetmaker>as that's what would cut it
11:15<nielsm>I use the _openttd_revision string when IsReleaseVersion() is true, since then it's probably "1.9.0" or whatever
11:15<nielsm>which is probably good enough?
11:16<@planetmaker>so all releases have no issue
11:16<@planetmaker>yes, that's good enough. At least for now
11:16<@planetmaker>if it turns out not good enough, it's time to act then.
11:16<nielsm>yeah it's nightlies and custom branches that are troublesome
11:16<nielsm>I don't know what JGR or other patchpack authors do
11:17<@planetmaker>nightlies have the hash in the name, as does the network revision. No issue either
11:17<nielsm>if they set a custom release version string
11:17<nielsm>are nightlies marked as "release" versions?
11:17<@planetmaker>JGR seems to set JGRPP-x.yy.z
11:17<@planetmaker>no, nightlies are no releases
11:17<nielsm>okay then they just get the opaque git hash as network revision
11:17<nielsm>not even date
11:18<@planetmaker>hm, ok... could it include the commit's date?
11:18<@planetmaker>then it would be solved for nightlies, too
11:19<@planetmaker>like yyyymmdd (8byte)
11:19<@planetmaker>Honestly not sure whether it needs solving, though
11:20<@planetmaker>A nightly server might profit from such, though
11:22<nielsm>uhh... just discovered, determineversion.vbs never sets modified=0 (not modified), only ever 1 (unknown) or 2 (yes modified)
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11:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
11:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7143: Fix #7142: Missing map bounds check when building long roads.
11:32<@peter1138>You can't tell if it's a nightly or not, sadly.
11:33<@peter1138>Maybe include the date to help that? Hmm.
11:33*LordAro mumbles something about just using yyyymmdd for nightlies
11:33<nielsm>or maybe have the web-based server listing have its own lookup table for known common versions
11:33<nielsm>which is automatically updated when a new nightly is released
11:34<@peter1138>Then you need lookups too :/
11:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7144: Editable AI/GS Parameters in the 3 game modes
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12:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7144: Editable AI/GS Parameters in the 3 game modes
12:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7144: Editable AI/GS Parameters in the 3 game modes
12:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7143: Fix #7142: Missing map bounds check when building long roads.
12:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7142: Assertion when building long road at map border
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12:11<Samu>I'm sorry Peter. it's not easy to make this into just a single issue, it has to have everything else considered
12:11<Samu>a common goal
12:11<@peter1138>You can reference multiple issues in a single PR.
12:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7130: Codechange: Remove value mangling and field misuse in SLE_WRITEBYTE.
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12:12<Samu>that would be quite too sparse, considering the number of issues
12:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nielsmh approved pull request #49: update about.html
12:12<@peter1138>You can't track them individually then!
12:13<@peter1138>Say some get fixes, others don't.
12:13<@peter1138>Separate issues makes that much easier to track.
12:13<Samu>I see what you mean
12:13<Samu>but... i need some centralized topic somehow
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12:14<@peter1138>Use your own notepad then.
12:14<@peter1138>Don't dump everything onto github.
12:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] planetmaker merged pull request #49: update about.html
12:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
12:15<Samu>when I say, I, I mean, everyone needs to see the whole of the problems being dealt with
12:15<Samu>not "I"
12:15<+glx>you can use to do that I guess
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12:16<nielsm>Samu, or open a thread on tt-forums to discuss it and reach some consensus on what correct behavior should be
12:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
12:17<nielsm>because I think that's the first thing to do with scenario editor versus loaded savegames, figure out what should even be considered "correct"
12:17<@peter1138>That issue was NOT coherent.
12:17<+glx>personnaly I would just removed any player stuff ;)
12:18<@peter1138>Just a dump of data and some points after it.
12:18<+glx>as a scenario should be an empty map with only towns and industries
12:18<@peter1138>nielsm, yeah, that assertion in nrt was actually present in master, just happened to not trigger.
12:18<nielsm>glx ah yeah, convert all roads and channels to public, delete all other transport and delete all companies
12:19<@peter1138>nielsm, regression still fails now, but it doesn't crash
12:19<@peter1138>I think people like using scenario editor to "touch up" their creations
12:19<+glx>but people use SE to hack the savegame
12:19<@peter1138>sandbox mode style.
12:19<nielsm>well it might still be useful to have a "clean out players" button somewhere
12:22<@peter1138>Thought we did. Hmm.
12:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
12:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] flitzpiepe opened pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
12:29<+glx>nice title
12:30<@peter1138>That's a lot of commits that don't comply with our commit message style :D
12:31<nielsm>and a bunch of merge hmm
12:31<@peter1138>As long as it's not merging master...
12:31<@planetmaker>if that is all we will have to criticise, that will be good :)
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12:32<@planetmaker>(I haven't looked yet)
12:32<Samu>147 hidden
12:32<Samu>that's too many
12:33<Samu>nielsm there is a clean out players button already
12:33<Samu>reset landscape
12:34<Samu>removes all companies (but not the gs)
12:40<nielsm>is anyone making a review for the TBTR PR?
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12:43<Samu> this looks bad, doesn't wrap text?
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12:48<@peter1138>Format it yourself?
12:48<@peter1138>nielsm, way too soon!
12:50<TrueBrain>planetmaker: awesome that you merged in OpenTTD/website; minor request for next time, please check the commit message of people :)
12:50<TrueBrain>personally I don't like the 'enforcing' of the commit message, but I tend to fix it when squashing the commit :)
12:50<TrueBrain>I mean .. "update about.html" ... that is not descriptive :D
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12:54*peter1138 early dinrar
12:55<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: <- possibly that helps you a bit in a direction to solve this issue
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>is that better than dinzip?
12:56<TrueBrain>basically, someone has to ask Azure what's up :D
12:56<@peter1138>Trying and failing a way to get 7zip in there. As clearly that is superior.
12:56<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, hm... you're right
12:56<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I made it more pretty now :D
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: no, i need some more basic understanding of which file does what, and how. and possibly a way to test locally
12:57<TrueBrain>I did the horrible thing of force pushing to a public master branch .. people will hate me :P
12:57<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you mean Dockerfile?
12:57<@planetmaker>I was basically like "all checks green. Change looks valid. --> approve & merge"
12:57<TrueBrain>planetmaker: yeah :D I am still on the fence if I should add the commit message checker ..
12:57<TrueBrain>I find it so rude ..
12:58<TrueBrain>to tell someone they failed, while they only made a bad commit message
12:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #49: update about.html
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: but why would they write a better commit message next time if you don't tell them?
12:59<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, the problem is a bit: we handle repos differently... so it needs different thinking for each :) I agree with your sentiment though
12:59<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: first time contributors? Possibly they are drive-by
12:59<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: so that is only an issue if they make a 2nd or 3rd PR
12:59<Samu>One thing I'd like to be able to change in the scenario editor is the #op codes
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: or they might drive-by other projects
12:59<TrueBrain>planetmaker: we should make it a single way of doing, I guess :)
13:00<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: pros and cons; often I tell them after the merge: tnx, but your commit messages need improving, so I did that for you
13:00<@planetmaker>well, not necessarily. OpenTTD is our main. So extra care there is ok
13:00<TrueBrain>works for me at least
13:00<Samu>but without knowing if it would be problematic, I'm not sure
13:00<@planetmaker>And being a bit more relaxed with the rest (at the cost that oversights like mine happen at times)
13:00<TrueBrain>planetmaker: fair point; I agree :)
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: maybe an inbetween mode "fail" "warning" "ok"?
13:01<TrueBrain>not sure that is possible, but worth a check
13:01<@planetmaker>good idea... is that even possible?
13:01<TrueBrain>I guess you can always make a bot write a message if commit message fails
13:01<@peter1138>TrueBrain, meanwhile there's a PR #7145 in OpenTTD with 207 commits. All of them fail commit message check :D
13:01<TrueBrain>telling about that
13:02<Samu>where does this gist have any visibility?
13:02<@peter1138>I suspect they need to squash it a bit.
13:02<@planetmaker>hehe, yeah. And... I wonder how to review such gigantic queue
13:02<TrueBrain>peter1138: holy crap
13:02<LordAro>"lol no"
13:03<LordAro>(i am joking, of course)
13:03<@peter1138>Apparently it's a reimplementation, so I'm not sure why it includes fixes.
13:03<TrueBrain>just a working banch
13:03<@planetmaker>I wonder about that, too. It looks like organically grown over a year or more. And everything stacked... and not commits amended and squashed
13:03<TrueBrain>that needs a bit love and attention :)
13:03<@planetmaker>so the real stuff is very hard to see
13:04<TrueBrain>a feature branch!
13:04<@peter1138>Yeah, it's what I do when I'm working on stuff.
13:04<TrueBrain>which reminds me, I am going to try to create binaries for NRT this weekend or so
13:04<TrueBrain>see if we can do that now :)
13:04<@peter1138>I then squash small commits together, though...
13:04<@peter1138>TrueBrain, it fails regression testing.
13:04<@peter1138>TrueBrain, and the PR is out of date, my branch is current.
13:04<TrueBrain>peter1138: owh .. so I will wait till that is fixed :D
13:04<nielsm>This is becoming a very long review for code style...
13:04<+glx>I'm on it
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13:05<@peter1138>Apparently I can push to andy's branch but I need to check with him.
13:05<TrueBrain>nielsm: what we used to do, was just ask them to look at the coding style, and try to apply it, without giving specifics
13:05<@peter1138>There's some bugs too ;)
13:05<@planetmaker>Not sure it's worth individual review on code style... more exemplary on that
13:05<nielsm>how many of us are looking over it right now? :P
13:05<TrueBrain>*launches Minecraft*
13:05<Wolf01>Mmmh, what is steam doing?
13:06<Samu>gist doesn't parse images? what the heck is gist for
13:06<@planetmaker>I looked at 207 commits with no apparent order and useful descriptions and though "hell, that needs clean-up before review"
13:06<@peter1138>planetmaker, same.
13:06<Wolf01>Almost half of my installed games are updating
13:06<TrueBrain>so tell him exactly that, in nice and friendly words :D
13:06<@peter1138>Wolf01, updating everything with 0 byte updates.
13:06<@peter1138>Means they changed a load of metadata, I think.
13:06<@planetmaker>it's like reading the draft-draft-draft of some student's thesis which assume one has infinite time to go through unreflected collection of thoughts
13:08<nielsm>okay I have a review with 36 individual comments...
13:08<nielsm>submit or not?
13:09<Samu>I'm lost
13:09<Samu>gist is not what i was looking for
13:09<TrueBrain>planetmaker / Eddi|zuHause: <- they keep the validator 'pending' if something is wrong with the commit message
13:09<TrueBrain>so that is the "in between" I guess :P
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>i'm trying to write this message: "
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>Thank you for your patch, but this is completely unreviewable in the current state.
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>Please consider grouping commits into more logical units, squashing a few minor edits, and adhere to the commit message style as explained in"
13:10<+glx>peter1138, Wolf0: directx install package I heard
13:10<TrueBrain> <- might be good to switch to this commit message style, btw
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>anyone objecting?
13:10<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: minor rewording:
13:10<TrueBrain>"Thank you for your patch! Before we start to review, we have a few requests for you"
13:11<Samu>into more logical units, more commits!
13:11<TrueBrain>followed by your second line
13:11<TrueBrain>"completely unreviewable" and "but" are kinda negative :)
13:11<@peter1138>Might need reminding that push -f is okay :)
13:11<TrueBrain>and link to the :)
13:11<TrueBrain>try to guide him to the right path :)
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>how do i put a link to contributing in?
13:12<TrueBrain>Markdown yo! :) Possibly the interface also has a "link" button
13:13<TrueBrain>it does! :)
13:13<TrueBrain>I am so used to Markdown these days :D
13:13<@peter1138>Dinrar completed, food successfully, er, compressed.
13:13<@planetmaker>I like TB's suggestion for the reply
13:14<@planetmaker>and peter's hint on push -f and link to
13:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
13:15<TrueBrain>minor fix :P
13:15<TrueBrain>sorry :D
13:17<+glx>hmm why mixer.cpp contains mixed EOL ?
13:17<TrueBrain>because someone FAILED :D
13:17<+glx>and that's in the git repo
13:18<+glx>because if I fix it git diff shows the changed lines
13:18<+glx>instead of saying no diff and eol diffs
13:18<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: nice! :)
13:18<@peter1138>It's nielsm's changes, he had CRLF issues until just yesterday :)
13:18<@peter1138>Not sure how they were allowed in, mind you.
13:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
13:19<Samu>my communication skills... arg... i hate myself at times :!
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: commit-checker could have crlf checks?
13:19<Samu>just rambling
13:19<Samu>dont mind
13:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
13:21<Samu>so, 1 issue per issue, i'm sure this is not going anywhere
13:21<Samu>here goes
13:21<@peter1138>show us a gist before posting one
13:21<@peter1138>i'm sorry but we need to review your issues :p
13:22<Samu>a gist is here
13:22<@peter1138>I mean a gist of the issue you wish to post.
13:23<Samu>- AI Config window in SE: loading a scenario of a savegame with multiple human companies,
13:23<Samu>only one human company is displayed as being human. The other human companies can be selected
13:23<Samu>and editable. It's not what happens on a NG (normal game).
13:23<Samu>1 issue at a time
13:23<Samu>there's 6
13:23<@peter1138>I said post a GIST
13:24<@peter1138>And what's the point of using your own abbreviations when you need to explain them?
13:25<@peter1138>nielsm, you like my branch names, yet?
13:26<Samu>i can already see it going the opposite direction, you're now gonna fix it by disabling it in the editor
13:26<@peter1138>Samu, please follow the template.
13:27<Samu>but that's a gist
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13:29<andythenorth>anyone actually tried TBTR?
13:29<Samu>the expected result is also wrong~
13:29<andythenorth>my first thought is that the GUI doesn't even fit in my screen
13:30<nielsm>sunken separator bars look out of place
13:30<andythenorth>I have an entirely counter proposal to templates
13:30<andythenorth>I wanted them for years
13:30<andythenorth>but now
13:30<andythenorth>I don't
13:31<andythenorth>if I have 50 trains to change consist on
13:31<andythenorth>I make one new one, send all the old ones to depot, and clone the new one 49 times
13:31<andythenorth>pretty easy
13:31<@planetmaker>samu, what is a Hu company?
13:31<Samu>a human company
13:32<TrueBrain>saving 3 letters, SMS style FTW!
13:32<@planetmaker>I see... yeah
13:32<TrueBrain>1990 called .. they want their letters back
13:32<TrueBrain>T9 texted me, it is okay to use the keyboard
13:32<@planetmaker>Hu company reads to me like Hungarian company :)
13:32<TrueBrain>even with swiping you can talk binary all day
13:32<@peter1138>andythenorth, can I push my nrt directly to yours?
13:33<Samu>the expected result is not what I'd aim for a fix
13:33<Samu>because, looking at the whole... it's not the better way
13:33<andythenorth>peter1138: I give you rights, just a sec
13:33<@planetmaker>Samu, and why do you then call it "expected result" when you don't expect / want it?
13:34<Samu>because that's what everyone would expect atm
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: ok, that GUI is in dire need of a cleanup
13:34<andythenorth>peter1138: invited you to my repo
13:34<@peter1138>Samu, write what *you* expected to happen when you did it.
13:35<andythenorth>so one counter for templates would be 'clone n' which has been requested multiple times, but eh
13:35<@planetmaker>samu, you should indeed make-up your mind what is a good overall way. What you expect a good interface to do and look like
13:35<andythenorth>another is 'auto-replace n' instead of 'autoreplace 1'
13:35<+glx>Samu: only network savegames can have more than one human company
13:35<@planetmaker>and compare that to the current one
13:35<Samu>i already made up my mind
13:35<andythenorth>rule based autoreplace is probably not very intuitive, but likely very powerful
13:35<Samu>but you want me to slice it into minor prs
13:35<@planetmaker>glx, yes-ish... but what is when you load a network save in single-player? Easy to do
13:35<Samu>they aren't sensible alone, it's part of a whole that they only start making sense
13:36<@planetmaker>The difference betwwen "network save" and "single-player save" does not exist
13:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
13:36<+glx>and SE was never supposed to work well with companies on it
13:36<@planetmaker>Indeed it makes IMHO sense to mark company slots as "AI (AI-name)" and others as "human" - irrespective of SP or MP game
13:36<+glx>I know planetmaker, that's why SE assumes human as company 0
13:36<+glx>and IA elsewhere
13:36<andythenorth>so when's the 1.9.0-RC1?
13:37<@planetmaker>though OpenTTD need not offer and facilities to add other human companies
13:37<Samu>i have my stuff done, pretty much, it's just that I now have to turn it into smaller parts, it's not easy to explain it, to expose it this way
13:37<andythenorth>clock is ticking, I think we'll have bugs arising
13:37<@peter1138>andythenorth, merge nrt! do it!
13:37<andythenorth>so broken
13:37<TrueBrain>lets do NRT after 1.9 :D
13:37<@peter1138>Ignore the regression test!
13:37<andythenorth>NRT is blatantly 2.0
13:37<TrueBrain>andythenorth: is the nightly play-tested you think?
13:37<andythenorth>TrueBrain: already it has found bugs
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: maybe i wouldn't call it "human" but "player"?
13:37<andythenorth>how many downloads?
13:37<TrueBrain>will check about that this weekend
13:38<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I don't mind the semantics in that case. Either way is fine for me
13:38<@planetmaker>Honestly it's not a bad thing, if OpenTTD would allow also in SP different player companies
13:38<@planetmaker>it's not like you cannot move between them anyway
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>"Company Name 1 (Player)" "Company Name 3 (AI)"
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, all the interfaces for that are already there, just guarded behind "is multiplayer"
13:39<+glx>isn't there an isai mark in companies ?
13:39<+glx>in the savegame I mean
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i once played alone on a local server just to have multiple companies
13:40<@peter1138>Samu, so your "expected/actual" results are ... completely unrelated to your "steps to reproduce"
13:40<@planetmaker>I think there is @ glx
13:40<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, exactly. Me, too. And we're certainly not the only ones
13:40<@peter1138>Samu, so I still don't know what the actual issue.
13:40<+glx>the SE probably ignore it
13:40<@peter1138>I can probably guess, but we should not need to guess.
13:41<@peter1138>(How do you load a savegame in the scenario editor, anyway? :p)
13:41<Samu>rename .sav to .scn
13:41<@peter1138>So it's not even supported anyway.
13:41<Samu>it is
13:42<Samu>i read it somewhere
13:42<+glx>not directly
13:42<Samu>that's how i learn about it too
13:42<+glx>it's not recommended to use it that way
13:42<LordAro>"supported" is not the same as "it works"
13:42<@peter1138>Anyway, can you try rephrasing your gist to explain what issue you are talking about?
13:43<@peter1138>Maybe the conversation in here could help you do that (but don't just paste the conversation)
13:45<+glx>indeed there's is_ai in Company
13:45<@planetmaker>you can still move yourself to an AI company
13:45<@planetmaker>doesn't exactly make it supported either
13:46<+glx>true, but as I understand it SE doesn't check is_ai
13:46<@planetmaker>why should it check or distinguish companies?
13:46<+glx>I mean ai config window in SE
13:47<+glx>SE indeed doesn't care
13:47<@peter1138>is the AI config window different in SE?
13:48<@peter1138>And is this samu's issue?
13:48<+glx>same as intro and game, with different rules inside I think
13:48<+glx>and I guess SE is identical to intro
13:48<Samu>the AI config window needs different rules in all 3 game modes
13:48<Samu>no, not entirely
13:49<@peter1138>presumably it can be more lax in the scenario editor. it is an editor, after all.
13:49<+glx>considering human in slot 0 and IA in other slots is very intro to me
13:50<Samu>you enter scenario editor, and slot 1, or 0 as you say, has no company
13:50<Samu>it's not equal to main menu
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13:51<Samu>se assumes it's human
13:51<+glx>yes because it ignores the saved companies
13:52<+glx>that's what I guess
13:53<Samu>what shall my gist be written like? sorry for asking
13:56<Samu>the expected result is...
13:56<Samu>- human companies should not be selectable
13:56<Samu>- every slot should be selectable and editable
13:57<Samu>my suggestion would be the 2nd line
13:57<Samu>but what it's currently assumed is that human companies should not be selectable
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13:58<Samu>in a normal game it's not selectable
13:58<+glx>for me behaviour should match running game regarding selectable, but intro regarding editable settings
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13:59<+glx>because it's an existing game, but it's not running
13:59<Samu>human company could also be reseted in multiplayer
14:00<Samu>the slot could be editable, regardless if it's currently occupied by a human
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14:00<Samu>and move down, move up the config into a non occupied slot for commodity
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14:07<Samu>I can't do this.. i'm stuck
14:08<Samu>this = split into smaller commits
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14:12<LordAro>Samu: you're good at testing pathfinders, feel like testing #7114 ?
14:13<Samu>ok, if you test this:
14:14<LordAro>i'll have a look
14:15<LordAro>peter1138's right though, the "overhaul" commit does need splitting up
14:15<LordAro>(and the tt-f link removing from the commit message)
14:17<Samu>ah, that's a fix to something i reported, cool, gonna test
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14:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] flitzpiepe commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
14:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] flitzpiepe commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
14:39<nielsm>hmm, not sure how much to put in those words, but the comment about "much more stable" for TBTR feels omnious to me, "it doesn't crash quite as often"
14:39<nielsm>(meaning it still crashes occasionally)
14:43<LordAro>nielsm: indeed
14:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
14:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
14:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
14:46<LordAro>not a huge fan of the TBTR acronym either
14:47<nielsm>taboo truck?
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>a (simplified) version of that might also be useful for other vehicle types
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>but maybe shelve that idea until we cleaned it up :p
14:48<nielsm>looks like it's a swedish dude, by this commit message "normalized the {} for some case:s"
14:48<nielsm>I don't know anyone but swedes using : instead of apostrophe
14:57<nielsm>any chance for another review of fix-networkrevision? :}
14:59<nielsm>...I suppose the increase in NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH may be moot now the network revision is only git hash?
14:59<Samu>LordAro tried to trigger the asserts but couldn't
14:59<Samu>it's always chosing a track
14:59<LordAro>sounds like it's working then :)
14:59<LordAro>try other vehicle types as well, to make sure they don't do unexpected things
14:59<Samu>tried ship, road vehicle and train
15:00<Samu>with no track in front
15:00<Samu>going to itself
15:00<Samu>to depot
15:00<LordAro>comment as such on the PR, if you would be so kind :)
15:01<Samu>it was only a ship issue
15:01<Samu>tested the same manner with road vehicle and train, it was behaving fine
15:01<Samu>ok posting
15:05<Samu>wanna see what the code is doing different, brb
15:07<Samu>if it ignores the first tile, but there is no tile ahead, what does it do then?
15:07<Samu>it's chosing a track still
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15:16<Samu>interesting, this change may affect river generation
15:17<Samu>maybe that's what he was refering to, with thoroughly
15:17<Samu>or maybe not
15:17<Samu>have to check river gen code again
15:18<Samu>i don't think a river can start and end in the same spot
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15:23<Samu>yep, won't cause any difference to river generation
15:24<Samu>it always require a minimum of moving a tile
15:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7114: NPF bails out when source tile is also a destination tile
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15:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] flitzpiepe commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
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16:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7146: Fix: don't show OS error box for non GUI video drivers
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16:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7146: Fix: don't show OS error box for non GUI video drivers
16:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7146: Fix: don't show OS error box for non GUI video drivers
16:47<Samu>jesus, even the simple change of increasing max no competitors to 15 requires deep changes to avoid crashes
16:48<Samu>by allowing 15, move down needs changes
16:48<Samu>bah, i'm working backwards
16:49<Samu>i already have this done
16:50<Samu>i can't just simply split this into small pr's
16:54<LordAro>Samu: almost as if there's an awful lot of stuff that assumes 14
16:54<LordAro>refactors first, i.e. fixing all the things that assume 14
16:54<LordAro>then add individual "features" one at a time
16:54<andythenorth>I don't want to be discouraging, but does TMWFTLB apply here?
16:55<andythenorth>14 -> 15 is not much gain for a lot of effort
16:55<LordAro>also ^
16:55<Samu>it is already done, the entire work
16:55<andythenorth>if it's a large changeset, we're not likely to accept it
16:55<Samu>now i'm trying to split it apart
16:55<Samu>that's where I'm failing
16:55<andythenorth>the risk of side effects vs. the benefit, the review time doesn't pay off
16:56<andythenorth>there's an implicit calculation that is not often rationalised, but summed up by TMWFTLB
16:56<andythenorth>'but this one goes to 11'
16:56<Samu>yeah, you guys even get confused with my ramblings
16:56*andythenorth should go to bed
16:57<andythenorth>a big change introduces risk
16:57<andythenorth>the risk isn't worth it for a tiny benefit
16:57<andythenorth>risk is boring
16:57<andythenorth>risk means reverts, or hot fixes, and having to read bug reports
16:57<andythenorth>risk is a party pooper
16:58<Samu>I'm failing to tear my big PR into small parts, as requested
16:58<andythenorth>big UI changes are very very hard to split across multiple PRs
16:58<andythenorth>they tend not to make sense in fragments
16:58<Samu>the PR itself is finalized
16:59<+glx>and 14->15 should not have been part of the GUI work
16:59<Samu>but it has to
16:59<+glx>it's a separate feature
16:59<Samu>it's deeply integrated into it
16:59<andythenorth>that's a bad sign :)
16:59<LordAro>well that's part of the issue, it shouldn't be
16:59<Samu>the move down button is fine for a max of 14
16:59<LordAro>14->15 should be a separate commit(s)/PR, GUI changes should follow from that
16:59<Samu>but not for a max of 15
16:59<andythenorth>I write a lot of big UI changes, and I know how they end up integrated with other changes, but they shouldn't
17:00<andythenorth>why not 32 AIs?
17:00<andythenorth>or 64?
17:01<Samu>15 companies is the real max
17:01<andythenorth>or to ask another way, why is it 14 currently?
17:01<LordAro>Samu: ok, first step, is to make the GUI not care about how many AIs there are
17:01<Samu>and there were no real issues with manually starting 15 ais
17:01<Samu>it's just the gui
17:01<andythenorth>do we need a gui to start 15?
17:01<+glx>the limitation was due to available company colours
17:01<Samu>yes, if you move yourself to spectator
17:02<andythenorth>RGB COLOURS!
17:02<andythenorth>no but we could add more company colours :P. There are a few ranges unexploited
17:02<andythenorth>*that* would be nice
17:02<Samu>you can already create 15 companies
17:02<Samu>what are you on about?
17:03<andythenorth>how many AIs can you create?
17:03<Samu>manually? 15
17:03<Samu>automatically? 14
17:04<milek7>btw. how it was handled in 240 companies patch? or it wasn't handled properly?
17:04<Samu>i didn't try my gui with your patch
17:04<Samu>it would fail, i removed the scrollbar...
17:05<andythenorth>what were we discussing again? o_O
17:05<Samu>the simple fact that changing 14 to 15 requires gui changes
17:05<Samu>or else gui crashes
17:06<andythenorth>you say above we can create 15 already
17:06*andythenorth is thoroughly confused and will stop asking
17:06<andythenorth>not helping
17:06<Samu>the gui imposes a limit of 14
17:06<Samu>but the real limit is 15
17:06<andythenorth>how do you create 15 manually?
17:06<Samu>start multiplayer game
17:06<andythenorth>manual = gui, no?
17:07<Samu>move to spectator
17:07<Samu>resetcompany 1
17:07<Samu>startai x15
17:07<andythenorth>ok so in summary: you're fixing a perceived defect with the AI GUI, which should support 15 AIs, but only supports 14?
17:08<andythenorth>anyone know why it only supports 14?
17:08<andythenorth>mistake, or design?
17:08<Samu>because it was probably designed for single player in mind
17:08<+glx>Samu: your change in src/table/settings.ini is wrong btw
17:08<milek7>or rather, allowing to spawn ai in place reserved for player normally
17:09<Samu>why wrong?
17:09<andythenorth>is company colour a nibble?
17:10<+glx>because companies range from index 0 to index 14, and that's 15 companies
17:10<Samu>MAX_COMPANIES = 15 already
17:10<+glx>company index 15 is town
17:11<andythenorth>so...more company colours then?
17:11<Samu>it's used like < MAX_COMPANIES everywhere i see it
17:11<Samu>not <=
17:11<+glx>MAX_COMPANIES is not a valid company number
17:11<LordAro>Samu: arrays start from 0
17:11*andythenorth would like black, there's a grf for that
17:11<andythenorth>company colour grfs!
17:11<andythenorth>just recolour sprites :P
17:12<+glx> MAX_COMPANIES = 0x0F, ///< Maximum number of companies
17:12<+glx> OWNER_TOWN = 0x0F, ///< A town owns the tile, or a town is expanding
17:12<@peter1138>There's the RGB company colours patch ;)
17:12<andythenorth>so I heard
17:12<+glx>from owner enum
17:12<Samu>but MAX_COMPANIES - 1 is what defines it to be 14
17:12<andythenorth>I even saw a picture once
17:12<+glx>yes from 0 to 14
17:12<@peter1138>You can have BLACK with that.
17:12<+glx>= 15
17:12<andythenorth>company colour grfs, with date callbacks
17:12<andythenorth>so you encode the full history of British Rail liveries
17:13<andythenorth>also 3rd company colour, it's only a few more bits
17:13<LordAro>oh god
17:13<+glx>you can't have company 15
17:13<Samu>that setting is used for max_no_companies
17:13<Samu>min value is 0
17:13<Samu>max value is 14
17:13<Samu>i changed it to 15
17:13<andythenorth>isn't company 15 town?
17:13<Samu>it's not used for index
17:14<Samu>but for counting the num of companies
17:14<andythenorth>didn't I run into company null or something once, for dead companies?
17:14<LordAro>i'm pretty sure we don't want to allow people to start 15 AIs normally
17:14<andythenorth>somewhere in NRT, I'm sure I found there's a dead company value for infra
17:14<+glx>but player + max_no_companies = 15 companies
17:14<Samu>ah, you refer to the current way ai_gui is counting them
17:15<Samu>that needs deep changes
17:15<andythenorth>255 compaies?
17:15<andythenorth>companies *
17:15<+glx>that's how the game counts it
17:15<Samu>the changes I've already went through
17:15<Samu>the "overhaul!"
17:15<+glx>would be better to allow company 0 to be an AI without touching this setting
17:16<+glx>like you set 14 max competitors + an IA as company 0
17:17<+glx>because max_no_companies should still be an addition to the company 0
17:18<Samu>i made the necessary changes regarding that
17:18<@peter1138>andythenorth, there's probably a patch for that...
17:18<+glx>so when you set it to 15 no Human company can't exist
17:19<+glx>but that totally changes the meaning of the setting
17:19<+glx>it's a difficulty setting for real players
17:19<Samu>you can still start 15 ais in single player
17:19<+glx>as I said better to add a option to replace human company by an AI
17:20<Samu>requires moving to an AI company, via cheat screen, and letting first company bankrupt
17:20<+glx>not if it's set before the game start and handled correctly by the engine
17:21<+glx>dedicated server has no issue to start a game without players
17:21<+glx>you just want a dedicated server with GUI and 15 AIs
17:22<Samu>yes, but it's already possible via openttd interface as well
17:22<Samu>but i agree
17:22*andythenorth is thoroughly confused
17:22<Samu>it would be even better
17:22<andythenorth>this is a lot of work to add 1 more AI to the UI
17:22<Samu>start as spectator
17:23<andythenorth>so if I start 15 AIs, how do I play?
17:23<Samu>single player could have a spectator slot
17:23<Samu>i wouldnt mind
17:24<Samu>you spectate
17:24<andythenorth>ok so one of my kids plays with 14 AIs
17:24<Samu>dont play
17:24<andythenorth>he sets it to 15
17:24<andythenorth>and starts a new game
17:24<andythenorth>what happens?
17:24<+glx>everything already handles correctly the 15 companies, you really just need some changes to start as spectator and put an AI in slot 0
17:24<Samu>ais already can start in slot 0
17:24<andythenorth>so if I start a game with 15 AIs, I'm a spectator?
17:25<Samu>the ais don't start right
17:25<Samu>it'd be preferible to start a game as a spectator
17:25<+glx>yes, but I mean for a non dedicated game, you just need an option so the "player" starts as spectator instead of creating company 0, then you're free to put an AI there
17:26<andythenorth>so we change the game start for all single player?
17:26<andythenorth>you start as spectator, then have to join a company?
17:26<+glx>it's a special case to get 15 AIs running
17:26<+glx>could be a dev option
17:27<Samu>hmm plausible idea
17:27<Samu>gonna see if i can do it
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17:27<andythenorth>I'm trying to imagine the pitch
17:28<andythenorth>"Feature: we made it possible for you to spectate an all-AI game"
17:28<@peter1138>andythenorth, no "AI Settings Overhaul"
17:28<+glx>sure some people would like it
17:28<andythenorth>"Feature: when starting single-player, you will now always start as a spectator, and you will have to join a company"
17:28<Samu>could bring back ai competitions
17:28<@peter1138>That totally explains what it does
17:28<andythenorth>"Note: if you don't join a company before the AIs start, you will not be able to play"
17:29*andythenorth must be missing the point
17:29<+glx>you can still kill an AI
17:29<Samu>well yeah, i added a Stop AI button too
17:29<@peter1138>andythenorth, I love that we've spent weeks discussing this ;)
17:29<andythenorth>to add 1 extra AI to the UI
17:29<+glx>to finally understand the goal :)
17:29<andythenorth>to support the need of the 1 person in the world who wants to do it
17:29<andythenorth>who can already do it
17:30<andythenorth>but now wants a UI for it
17:30<Samu>yes :|
17:30<andythenorth>to be really clear, and not mean, I think samu's goal is fine for Samu
17:30<andythenorth>I just don't think it's shared
17:30<andythenorth>depot ctrl-click counter for vehicles anyone? :P
17:31<Samu>i guess I got addicted
17:31<+glx>I'm quite sure AI devs would like to see their AI running without having to check the money for company 0
17:31<andythenorth>I'm quite sure as newgrf dev, I'd like to always start with £10m money
17:31<andythenorth>and no town ratings
17:31<andythenorth>and industry production cheat enabled
17:32<+glx>it's possible, use a game script
17:32<andythenorth>and magic bulldozer
17:32<andythenorth>newgrf deity mode
17:33<+glx>anyway it should be an option, not a change affecting all other players
17:33*andythenorth wonders about newsandboxgame
17:33<andythenorth>which ships with a bunch of cheats enabled
17:34<andythenorth>for content development
17:34<andythenorth>possibly even just loads a different config
17:35<Samu>anyway, the gui could use some improvements
17:35<Samu>because setting up scripts in gui is much more natural
17:35<Samu>than doign in console way
17:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
17:36<Samu>speaking about when a game is already running
17:38<Samu>okay, i'm alone on this :|
17:39<LordAro>Samu: not saying your gui improvements aren't good, just don't want the 14 -> 15 change :)
17:39<@peter1138>andythenorth, i found my stash containing related vehicles changes
17:39<@peter1138>it's not very big
17:39<@peter1138>(read: doesn't do anything yet)
17:40<andythenorth>few problems with that drawing, but eh
17:41<andythenorth>synchronising intro dates was separate
17:41<andythenorth>simple property
17:41<@peter1138>Yeah, cos that's useful for other things.
17:42<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause had a proposal for that using the game seed, can't remember what
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, each time intro date variation is called, init with game seed and date property, so you get reproducible randomisation
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>every vehicle set to enter at the same date will stay at same date, just moved randomly
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>all vehicles with the same introdate will be moved "en bloc"
17:44<@peter1138>uint32 r = Random();
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17:45<@peter1138>if (somepropertysetonengine) uint32 r = Random(gameseed);
17:45<milek7>how likely it is to get merged? ;d
17:45<@peter1138>Grey grass? Never!"
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i'd just do it for all existing sets, without new property
17:45<milek7>about companies
17:45<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, that breaks them because the spec's been changed.
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: where in the spec does it specify how the randomness is calculated?
17:46<@peter1138>uint32 r = 4;
17:46<@peter1138>There you go then.
17:46<@peter1138>Guaranteed random number.
17:48<Samu>looks like I'm not entirely alone
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: intro date has weird corner case specs anyway
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i don't think there's much harm
17:49<andythenorth>it's depot flip all over again!
17:49*andythenorth doesn't much care prop or no prop
17:49*peter1138 flips andythenorth's depots.
17:49<andythenorth>I think it would be interesting to have a separate prop to specify random range per vehicle :P
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: but i guess we could add a flag somewhere
17:49<andythenorth>I would like to make some jokers
17:50<Samu>i used to watch 4 ais vs 4 ais in starcraft, warcraft... i don't think i'm the only one in the world that enjoys AIs
17:50<andythenorth>+/-10 years
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>train prop 27 (misc flags) seems to be already full
17:50<Samu>even made some ai scripts for war3
17:51<Samu>it would always let me use all slots for AIs
17:51<Samu>why must openttd be different
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17:53<andythenorth>historical reasons
17:53<Samu>if i recall, even brood war now lets 8 ais start, there's spectator slots
17:54<andythenorth>so we have 14
17:54<andythenorth>so we're still winning ;)
17:54<Samu>+ some 255 spectator slots or so
17:55<andythenorth>eh what " full git model with branches being merged instead of rebased "
17:55<Samu>ok, suppose I change it back to 14
17:55<andythenorth>I thought rebase was the bees knees?
17:55<@peter1138>It is the bees knees.
17:55<+glx>it's just slot 0 is currently reserved to human
17:55<andythenorth>knees of bees
17:55<Samu>i would still have to manually start the 15th ai :(
17:56<@peter1138>But it's not how git is meant to work :D
17:56<andythenorth>I thought I was doing it wrong all these years
17:56<andythenorth>feature branch -> milestone branch -> master
17:56<andythenorth>merges all the way
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>it depends a bit
17:57<andythenorth>but tbh, rebase makes complete sense for working with github and 'everything is a fork'
17:57<LordAro>Samu: last time i checked, AIs don't start all at once anyway, so if you're doing any half decent AI battle, you're going to want to start them all manually at the start anyway
17:57<andythenorth>rebasing on upstream seems a lot cleaner than merging
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17:58<andythenorth>AI battle mode
17:58<andythenorth>'New Game', 'Play Scenario', 'Watch AI Game'
17:58<Samu>hmm, making ais start right away
17:58<@peter1138>LordAro, it's probably all in the AI settings overhaul patch.
17:58<@peter1138>LordAro, as in... the one that doesn't explain anything :p
17:58<andythenorth>also 'New newgrf dev deity mode game'
17:58<Samu>that could be a nice idea
17:59<andythenorth>how big are the knees on bees?
17:59<@peter1138>Hmm, I should have a shower and then get dressed into pyjamas.
17:59<Samu>min start_date is 1 atm, i could make it 0
17:59<andythenorth>I was going to shower
17:59<andythenorth>I just went climbing
17:59<Samu>and that would make them start immediately
17:59<andythenorth>so I smell of chalk and natural deodorant
17:59<andythenorth>but I cba and am getting in bed
18:00<andythenorth>but I will dream of AIs
18:00<andythenorth>do AIs dream of AIs?
18:00<andythenorth>sheep AIs?
18:00<Samu>so many ideas
18:01<+glx>some random time is added to start_date IIRC, so indeed if you add a special value like 0, you could make it start immediately
18:02<andythenorth>sounds like vehicles :P
18:02<andythenorth>let's add a framework!
18:02<Samu>i was never a fan of that random deviation thing
18:02<andythenorth>for start dates on generic objects!
18:02<andythenorth>isn't that how enterprise software works?
18:02<supermop_work__>late for climbing, no?
18:03<Samu>but 0 could me a special case
18:03<andythenorth>finished at 21.30 or something
18:03<andythenorth>what's needed here is more bed
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18:04<Samu>let me write down my TODO
18:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
18:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7147: Change: Synchronize randomness in vehicle introduction…
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>someone want to test that?
18:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7148: Switch saveload versions from literal numbers to enum values.
18:28<@peter1138>Bah, I was peckish after cycling this evening, and so... pecked too much :/
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>bon apetit
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>there's this historic anecdote according to which Frederic the great sent this picture to voltaire and voltaire answered "Ga"
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>(you're supposed to read that as "s sous p a cent sous six" and "g grand a petit", or "A souper a Sanssouci?" "j'ai grand appetit")
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>also, your build failed
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>lots of trailing whitespace
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>in saveload.h
18:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
18:41<Samu>I need to add 1 more tick delay for AIs before they start
18:41<Samu>with a start_date = 0, all AIs can start in 15 ticks
18:41<Samu>not exactly at the same time, but almost
18:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
18:43<Samu>for a start_date = x, the delay is 1 + AI::GetStartNextTime() * DAY_TICKS;
18:44<Samu>75 ticks for 1 day, 129 for 2 days, etc..
18:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
18:44<@peter1138>Running ai/regression/tst_regression... passed!
18:44<Samu>@calc 74 * 2
18:44<@DorpsGek>Samu: 148
18:44<Samu>meh, 149 then
18:45<Samu>or maybe not, i can make this better
18:49<Samu>getstartnexttime = 0 ? 1 : getstartnexttime :)
18:53<Samu>trying a while
18:57<Samu>alright, just made them all start exactly in the same tick
18:58<Samu>now need to take care of that random deviation
19:00<+glx>that looks like max(getstartnextime, 1)
19:04<@peter1138>Gotta say, the current method of setting delay is a pain in the bum.
19:04<@peter1138>Individually per slot :/
19:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
19:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
19:19<@peter1138>clang++ works better than clang ;p
19:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7148: Switch saveload versions from literal numbers to enum values.
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19:32<Samu>maybe it shouldn't even set the setting
19:33<Samu>no need to create a Parameter entry
19:33<Samu>hmm must investigate
19:36<LordAro>peter1138: i wasn't aware there were any differences between clang & clang++
19:37<@peter1138>Well the former won't compile C++ code :-)
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19:37<ANIKHTOS>happy new year to all
19:37<LordAro>peter1138: that's ...not right?
19:39<@peter1138>That's what I thought.
19:40<@peter1138>Hmm, I should probably get an early night, but it's a bit late for that.
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20:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #7133: Graphics glitch with tunnels
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>how crazy is it to rebase a pr onto another pr?
20:11<+glx>I once merged a PR into another because I needed it for a test
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>nnyby: ships vs bridges were always a bit off. you sure these issues have anything to do with each other?
20:13<Samu>just discovered something strange
20:14<Samu>what is strcmp supposed to do
20:15<LordAro>Samu: aha, that's a good one
20:15<Samu>also, lines 391, 392 and 393 are never called
20:15<Samu>put a breakdown there, it never reached it
20:15<LordAro>look up the return values of strcmp
20:16<LordAro>and remember how integers evaluate to booleans
20:16<LordAro>it's not a great way of using strcmp
20:16<LordAro>as it leads to confusing like this :p
20:18<nnyby>Eddi|zuHause: no, i'm not sure. may be unrelated
20:19<Samu>what about lines 391...
20:23<Samu>it returns 0, !0 = true then
20:23<Samu>still doesn't explain why lines 391 aren't reached
20:30<+glx>tried with a config item not being "start_date" ?
20:30<Samu>yes, clueless plus, many of them, 15 ais
20:30<+glx>and with no descriptin ?
20:31<Samu>oh, don't tell me it's that
20:31<Samu>let me check
20:31<+glx>the code tell me it's probably the part you are missing in your test cases
20:32<Samu>the description for start_date is empty
20:33<Samu>ah, i see
20:33<+glx>yes but start_date doesn't go to line 391
20:33<Samu>i think there's only an AI that fits into this category
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20:34<+glx>usually reading the code helps a lot to understand how things are supposed to work ;)
20:34<Samu>oops, apparently not
20:34<Samu>is it even possible to create non descripted parameters?
20:35<+glx>just set the description to "" I think
20:35<Samu>let me edit the minimalgs brb
20:37<+glx>because description is required, but can be an empty string
20:38<Samu>aha, reached it!
20:39<Samu>description = ""
20:39<+glx>see, read the code, it tells you what you need to reach a specific section
20:41<Samu>i am worried that "start_date" could be a GS parameter
20:41<+glx>it's probably ignored
20:42<Samu>how to properly identify an AI
20:44<Samu>looks like it's not
20:45<Samu>I didn't even describe it
20:45<Samu>description = "", but still got that
20:47<+glx>with a breakpoint you can check the value of config_item.description
20:48<+glx>hmm description is not the problem
20:48<+glx>because it displays STR_AI_SETTINGS_START_DELAY, that means description is empty
20:49<Samu>yes, but ... i mean, it's a GS
20:49<Samu>it shouldn't happen
20:49<+glx>but that also means name is "start_date"
20:49<Samu>i can fix it apparently
20:50<Samu>just need to ensure the slot which it belongs
20:50<+glx>no need to fix
20:51<+glx>for me it's ok to get the default string for a setting named "start_date" if no description is provided
20:52<+glx>if the GS wants another description for this setting it can provide it, it just need to be non empty
20:53<Samu>the way it is described...
20:53<Samu>"this AI"
20:53<Samu>GS's dont even start, would be weird lol
20:54<Samu>in the other function is where i have to properly identify this as an AI
20:55<Samu>"start_date" and strempty is not garanteed i'm checking an AI parameter
20:56<Samu>over here, I'm trying to create a special case for the date being 0
20:56<Samu>dont want random deviation to occur
20:57<Samu>only random deviation for values > 0
21:44<Samu>error C2248: 'ScriptInfo::engine': cannot access protected member declared in class 'ScriptInfo'
21:44<Samu>what does it mean protected... bah
21:44<Samu>it's there!
21:46<Samu>char *scanner = this->info->engine->APIName;
21:46<Samu>doesn't work
21:46<Samu>but it's the correct path
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22:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird opened issue #7149: Town Y value reported by var 80 is inconsistent on different map sizes
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22:41<Pikka>that was a fun morning, trying to figure that one out :)
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22:51<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: i'd say that's not a bug, but you had an inaccurate extrapolation of the way TTDPatch did it
22:51<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: var 80 is not in the specs, anyway
22:52<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: the tile coordinates in OpenTTD work like (y << map_x) | x
22:59<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: so you need to treat var 80 as D sized, and shift by the map size to get the Y coordinate
22:59<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: there's a variable for map size, but i don't remember where
23:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7149: Town Y value reported by var 80 is inconsistent on different map sizes
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23:27<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: so to make sense of var 80 (for towns, industries, and maybe some other things) you need the X bits of patch variable 13
23:29<Pikka>I see. and mask out some bits for the X value on smaller maps :)
23:29<Pikka>or, for whichever dimension is smaller on non-square maps
23:30<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: doesn't matter which one is bigger, the X/Y bits of that are the correct ones
23:31<Pikka>I think I get it... I'll have to experiment. and then document it once I've got it down? it is a useful var for house sets, as it's the only way to get relative position within a town
23:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird commented on issue #7149: Town Y value reported by var 80 is inconsistent on different map sizes
23:32<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you need to replicate the TileX and TileY functions from
23:33<Pikka>it's a dword, containing however many bits it needs for X, then however many it needs for Y?
23:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #7133: Graphics glitch with tunnels
23:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7149: Town Y value reported by var 80 is inconsistent on different map sizes
23:34<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: yes
23:35<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you should forget about var 81, it won't be meaningful and is only provided for backwards consistency
23:38<Pikka>for sure
23:44<Eddi|zuHause>getting the Y value should be easy, just shift by "X"+6, isolating the X value might be trickier, depends on your grf-wizardry to construct the correct mask
23:44<Eddi|zuHause>(for a 256 map, "X" will be 2)
23:45<Eddi|zuHause>dunno if you can abuse action6 to vary the shift/mask of a varaction2
23:46<Eddi|zuHause>since map size won't magically change after game creation, it should be somewhat safe to do
23:47<Pikka>I'm sure you could, but just doing it with var2 chains is probably easier.
23:48<Pikka>and thanks to persistent storage you can do it once for each town and save the value, you don't have to do it every time you want to check a coord
23:51<+glx>the mask is easy to do, it's just (2^X)-1
23:52<Eddi|zuHause>glx: yes, but it would take me a few minutes to conjure up the correct NFO incantation to get that
23:54<Eddi|zuHause>glx: doesn't make it easier that you need to fit the magic +6 in there as well
23:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #7133: Graphics glitch with tunnels
---Logclosed Thu Jan 31 00:00:44 2019