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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-02-08

---Logopened Fri Feb 08 00:00:55 2019
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01:42<@peter1138>mrningo
02:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations. https://git.io/fhHOo
02:26<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe I should squash some of these commits.
02:32*Sacro squashes peter1138
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02:37<@peter1138>Hmm, roadtypes only have powered_roadtypes, not compatible_roadtypes
02:37<andythenorth>peter1138: the inclusion of ELRD, ROAD etc was frosch decision
02:37<andythenorth>to keep parity with railtypes etc
02:37<@peter1138>I guess they are the same for RVs
02:37<@peter1138>andythenorth, sure, I don't like it so I removed them :p
02:38<@peter1138>NewGRFs can provide them.
02:39<andythenorth>wfm
02:40<@peter1138>It's a separate commit at the moment and I'm not going to squash it all until later.
02:40<@peter1138>So easy to undo if concensus is it's utterly necessary.
02:42<@peter1138>Oh look it crashed due to a negated test, maybe I should check the assertion is valid...
02:43<@peter1138>Does Road Hog 1.4.1 support the NRT stuffs?
02:43<andythenorth>no there's a branched version
02:43<@peter1138>Ok, i've got that too, just it's older.
02:44<andythenorth>there are multiple other grfs, vehicles and roads
02:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations. https://git.io/fhHmC
02:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations. https://git.io/fhH3O
02:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #5654: Visibility of companies on graphs is not saved in game https://git.io/fhH3G
02:55<@peter1138>andythenorth, added a new tag for #7195
02:57<andythenorth>ok
02:58<andythenorth>now that 2.0 isn't NRT
02:58<andythenorth>maybe we should fix water stuff in 2.0 :P
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03:11<@peter1138>Is it not?
03:11<@peter1138>I mean, it's just my opinion we should get NRT out sooner rather than later.
03:12<@peter1138>So, town road types.
03:12<andythenorth>huzzah
03:12<andythenorth>road types that towns can build?
03:13<@peter1138>As in, not always the first road type.
03:13<@peter1138>First available would be good.
03:15<Eddi|zuHause>newgrf property?
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03:16<@peter1138>Should it be?
03:17<Eddi|zuHause>i'm thinking something like: roadtype must have "town can use this" flag, pick the fastest, and among those the newest
03:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 updated pull request #7192: Change: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform https://git.io/fhHUg
03:18<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like it should be a "Cleanup:"
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03:18<@peter1138>Fastest... maybe depending on zone.
03:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg
03:25<andythenorth>biab and stuff
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05:33<@peter1138>So.
05:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhHZQ
05:36<LordAro>it has come to this
05:40<@peter1138>Hmm, so the AI interface for roads will need to change.
05:40<@peter1138>This is kinda awkward :(
05:41<@peter1138>Can we have functions with optional parameters in squirrel land?
05:42<LordAro>nope
05:43<LordAro>squirrel functions themselves can have optional params, but the interface cannot
05:43<LordAro>(see the recent samu change for AIBridge.GetName)
05:45<@peter1138>Ah, so you need to create a compat function which calls the new method.
05:45<@peter1138>That's not so bad.
05:46<@peter1138>It's unfortunate that NRT is split into road and tram types.
05:56<@peter1138>The whole RTID is a bit pants, tbh.
05:58<andythenorth>rewrite it? o_O
05:58<andythenorth>nobody's emotionally attached
05:59<andythenorth>the nice thing about a long-running fork is that stuff can be tried, then binned
06:02<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> It's unfortunate that NRT is split into road and tram types. <-- the other option of freely combinable types might require 3 types on the same tile in some usecases
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06:32<andythenorth>why is it so cold
06:32<andythenorth>?
06:34-!-m3henry [~oftc-webi@62.232.243.6] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>global warming?
06:38-!-Thedarkb-T60 [~Thedarkb-@87-40-28-138.ptr.edu.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:41<@planetmaker>:)
06:52<@peter1138>Wet and windy here.
06:55<@peter1138>Damn, how can these Tesco granola squares be so high in calories?
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06:59<Eddi|zuHause>the brain is incapable of correctly estimating the calorie content of foods that contain both fats and carbohydrates
07:05<@peter1138>Mine, certainly.
07:08<@planetmaker>Are there things which naturally contain both approx. equally?
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>no, that's the reason why it's so difficult
07:08<@planetmaker>almonds?
07:09<@peter1138>fats not carbs.
07:09<@planetmaker>nuts seem to contain both
07:09<@planetmaker>but I can't think of anything else
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>"Fett 53.020 mg, Kohlenhydrate 5.677 mg" <- i wouldn't call that "equal"
07:10<@peter1138>Yeah, they are low carb.
07:11<@planetmaker>hazelnut: 9 grams fat, 6 grams carbs from 28g total
07:11<@planetmaker>depends a bit at which nut type you look
07:11<@peter1138>Are they flavoured or something?
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>dunno where you get your values from, my source says "Fett 63.300 mg, Kohlenhydrate 5.970 mg"
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>per 100g
07:13<@peter1138>Er...
07:13<@peter1138>Bit more than that per 100g
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>. being thousand separator
07:13<@planetmaker>random internet :P
07:14<@peter1138>Oh... right.
07:14<@planetmaker>https://projekte.uni-hohenheim.de/wwwin140/info/interaktives/lebensmittel.htm gives 60:10
07:14<@peter1138>But yes, that's low in carbs.
07:14<@planetmaker>well
07:14<@planetmaker>ok, so it's unnatural to have both
07:15<@peter1138>Avocado is quite high in both.
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>but evolution of mankind didn't really happen in the same places as avocados
07:16<@peter1138>14g fat, 8.5g carb in 100g avocado. Not exactly high, actually.
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>and even if you find that one food that actually does contain both, it's certainly not a stock food in most natural diets
07:17<@peter1138>And then there's cake.
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>and then the cake was a lie
07:17<@planetmaker>the naturally occuring cake tree :P
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>*this was a triumph*
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>*i'm making a note here: huge success*
07:20<@peter1138>One of the few games I actually completed.
07:21<@peter1138>So anyway, I took only half of a granola bar with me...
07:22<@peter1138>It's now tiny, of course, and still super bad, but still.
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>how do you take half of a packaged food?
07:22<@planetmaker>*nom nom* :P
07:22<@peter1138>I get a knife
07:22<@peter1138>And then cut it.
07:22<@peter1138>It was a 4 pack, and it was in the freezer.
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>whenever i open a package of anything, it's immediately empty
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know how
07:23<@peter1138>I couldn't do that with this, it'd be nearly the recommended daily amount in one sitting :p
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>it's not helped by the fact that the larger packages are technically cheaper per gram
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>but because they're also not lasting longer than the small packages, it's not really cheaper
07:24<@peter1138>Yes
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08:07<@peter1138>w/win 36
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08:24<Samu>hi
08:26<@peter1138>Samu samu
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08:27<Samu>eh, well
08:27<Samu>you just ruined my other pr
08:27<Samu>Eddi|zuHause:
08:28<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause YOU EVIL
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>i what?
08:29<@peter1138>Ruining Samu's other PRs, I dunno...
08:29<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7073 i separated it into its own PR
08:29<Samu>just so it could be closed :)
08:29<@peter1138>7073 is more reasonable.
08:30<@peter1138>I haven't look in detail though.
08:31<@peter1138>*looked
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>that would make it even more important to split it off the other pr
08:31<@peter1138>Quite.
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08:34<Samu>it's missing an arm now
08:40<Samu>it's kind of pointless to leave it open now
08:40<Samu>RIP another feature
08:40<@peter1138>They are unrelated.
08:40<@peter1138>Not totally
08:40<@peter1138>But still .
08:42<@peter1138>The thing with the rejected PR is a player simply needs to destroy the bridge themselves.
08:46<Samu>hmm that could make towns look disconnected
08:46<@peter1138>It's the same end result.
08:47<@peter1138>What next, don't expand where a station could be built?
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08:52<andythenorth>didn't I close the PR for not building docks where a ship might go?
08:53<@peter1138>This was the blocking-town-growth-where-locks-could-possibly-be-built PR.
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08:55<andythenorth>yes but no but
08:55<andythenorth>hmm, 4 hours is long enough to avoid javascript for
08:55<andythenorth>now I have to do it
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09:16<@peter1138>I guess towns never need to build trams? :p
09:19<Samu>no
09:19<Samu>because the town growth algorithm was taking care of it
09:20<Samu>if a player manually destroy bridges, it may end up becoming disconnected
09:21<Samu>it is always connected if it's done by the growth algorithm
09:22<Samu>anyway, the reason I split was because andythenorth requested it
09:23<Samu>for me it was one of those PR cases where they make no sense separated
09:23<andythenorth>it makes no sense to nerf towns whilst changing river slopes :)
09:23<andythenorth>nobody's going to approve that :)
09:25<Samu>then why did you request it?
09:25<Samu>could have just said no
09:25<andythenorth>where did I request nerfing towns? :o
09:26<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7073#pullrequestreview-194382683
09:28<andythenorth>oic
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09:45<@peter1138>Samu, the point is seperate PR for separate things.
09:45<@peter1138>Samu, unfortunately you don't yet seem to be aware of when something is separate or not.
09:46<@peter1138>Samu, andythenorth didn't specifically request a PR for that feature, not did he not request it.
09:46<@peter1138>Samu, having it as a separate PR allows it to be evaluated on its own merits properly.
09:46<@peter1138>*separate
09:47<andythenorth>I was providing advice on how to get 7073 through
09:47<andythenorth>it's got no chance if it includes a town nerf
09:47<@peter1138>^^
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09:49<m3henry>Towns are underpowered?
09:51<Samu>well
09:51<Samu>just close it
09:51<@peter1138>It already is.
09:51<Samu>the original
09:51<Samu>7073
09:51<@peter1138>7073 isn't rejected.
09:51<Samu>you rejected its arm
09:51<Samu>very much pointless now
09:51<@peter1138>We rejected the town nerf.
09:52<@peter1138>7073 is still open pending review.
09:52<@peter1138>You seem to have a very much "all-or-nothing" approach.
09:55<andythenorth>I don't understand why refusing to nerf towns prevents fixing locks
09:55<andythenorth>the problems with locks are almost entirely disconnected
09:55<Samu>I was garanteeing the entire river being traversable by just building locks on slopes
09:55<Samu>now, town bridges get in the way
09:56<@peter1138>And that isn't an aim we wish to persue.
09:56<andythenorth>there are multiple other approaches we could take
09:56<@peter1138>But improving generation of rivers is separate.
09:56<andythenorth>- 1 tile locks
09:56<andythenorth>- traversable rapids for some ship types
09:56<andythenorth>- changing river generation
09:57<@peter1138>And 7073 is the latter, now that it doesn't contain unrelated town nerfs.
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>the way i see it, this generally increased the chance of 7073 getting approved...
10:01<Samu>even if locks were 1 tile only, towns could still get in the way
10:01<Samu>town bridges*
10:02<Samu>locks can't be built under a bridge
10:02<nielsm>doesn't that happen in reality too?
10:02<m3henry>Well perhaps allowing locks under bridges would be a better solution
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10:03<nielsm>towns build something and then 20 years down the line it turns out it was a bad idea?
10:03<nielsm>and now that thing can't be torn down because something else depends on it
10:03<nielsm>and then you just have to work around it and make a less optimal solution to the new problem
10:03<supermop_work>sounds normal
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10:04<nielsm>"towns may not do anything ever that may potentially at some point in the future slightly inveoncenience a player" is a bad outset
10:05<nielsm>towns in the game are not a simple beneficiary to companies, they are just as much an enemy you have to barter with
10:06<Samu>why do rivers exist?
10:06<nielsm>because someone thought it would be fun to implement them in ttdpatch many years ago
10:06<andythenorth>then I drew some sprites for ottd
10:06<nielsm>they weren't in the original game
10:06<andythenorth>they're kind of crap
10:07<@peter1138>Rivers exist to be an obstacle :p
10:07<andythenorth>I just bulldoze them
10:07<@peter1138>You monster!
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10:07<@peter1138>Flowing rivers, clearly.
10:07<nielsm>yeah rivers are more of an obstacle than ever useful imo
10:07<nielsm>if they were generated wider and had flow they'd be interesting gameplay elements
10:08<Samu>the pr was a way to make rivers more interesting
10:08<nielsm>no it was a way to make towns less interesting
10:08<andythenorth>they need to start at coast and work up
10:08<andythenorth>seed should be estuary point, not spring
10:08<andythenorth>engineer for the result, not mimicking reality
10:09<@peter1138>pick both and make them join.
10:09<@peter1138>preferably terraforming along the way
10:09<@peter1138>Do rivery things such as joining and (rarely) splitting.
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>there's loads of different and conflicting ways to approach rivers
10:10<@peter1138>m8 is probably useful.
10:10<andythenorth>it's just a graph
10:10<Samu>it would make towns more interesting for me
10:10<andythenorth>there's even algorithms for river basins :P
10:10<Samu>i could actually have boats going on their rivers
10:10<@peter1138>You still can.
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>"graph" is an incredibly infinite characteristic :p
10:10<andythenorth>find a tile, pre-generate n branches
10:10<@peter1138>You just need to remove any bridges that happen to be in the way.
10:10<andythenorth>repeat, building up, until all branches are built as high as they can go
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10:11<Samu>but that may end disconnecting a town :|
10:11<Samu>road wise
10:12<nielsm>yes it turns out writing a good ai that mimicks intelligent players is hard
10:12<nielsm>an intelligent player will make sure the town remains connected
10:12<nielsm>(unless it would benefit them to break up the town, for whatever reason)
10:12<Samu>I tested the growth
10:12<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: a simple tree, n branches at level 1, each branch has n branches
10:12<Samu>with the bridge nerf
10:13<Samu>it was still fine
10:13<Samu>there were still bridges being made
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: trees are not significantly less infinite
10:13<@peter1138>I think m3henry probably has the simplest solution.
10:13<andythenorth>delete?
10:13<@peter1138>Allow locks under bridges.
10:13<Samu>just not in those situations where a lock could be placed
10:13<andythenorth>well that solves a minor issue
10:13<Samu>the growth would turn around somewhere else
10:13<Samu>the town would always look connected even with the nerf
10:13<@peter1138>andythenorth, very minor.
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>while for most people it seems to be a minor issue, at least one person thinks it's the end of the world... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sonLd-32ns4)
10:15<m3henry>oh god no
10:15<@peter1138>andythenorth, and it's probably a 2-liner.
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i'm sensing clipping/bounding box issues
10:16<andythenorth>more than already?
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>yes, more.
10:16<andythenorth>it's probably solved in JGR already
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that's how JGR works :p
10:17<@peter1138>/* Disallow crossing bridges for the time being */
10:17<@peter1138>I love that comment.
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, we certainly discussed that back then :p
10:17<@peter1138>It worked.
10:17<FLHerne>There was a patch that created 'valleys' for rivers, where they were mostly 1 level below the surrounding ground
10:18<FLHerne>(not the rainfall thing)
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>it was mostly a "we don't want to bother with the graphical issues"
10:18<@peter1138>yeah
10:18<@peter1138>newgrf bridges was going to be a thing
10:18<FLHerne>That made them a lot less ugly/painful, because you could build flat bridges across them in most cases
10:18<andythenorth>rainfall rivers :P
10:18<@peter1138>I had a spec for it and working code...
10:18<andythenorth>I did try making rivers flow from coast up
10:18<FLHerne>andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=71970
10:19<andythenorth>I would say I failed https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9261/rivers_go_up.png
10:19<andythenorth>rainfall rivers seemed to be boiling the ocean iirc
10:19<FLHerne>I liked the idea, but could never get that patch to actually generate something I liked
10:19<FLHerne>Er, yeah, that doesn't look too successful
10:19<m3henry>Oh man
10:19<@peter1138>The fact the patch has a manual...
10:20<m3henry>Transcontinental rivers
10:20<FLHerne>I do like its thing where rivers get bigger toward the sea
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>"back when i dabbled in river generation (that was even before the current river generator was implemented) i found the river placement too restrictive. rivers should be able to be placed on any slope." <-- i think that still applies
10:20<FLHerne>Having every single river be a negligible 1-tile squiggle is dull
10:20<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: a river is just a recursive tree, with occasional random direction change, and you like recursive trees....
10:21<andythenorth>rivers should be able to go on slopes, canals even more so, but frosch points out that it won't work due to trackbits
10:21<andythenorth>ships will fall off tiles
10:21<andythenorth>same reason we don't have station on slopes perpendicular
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the problem is not the river being a tree (which is not technically a representation of real rivers, anyway), but the tree being "embedded" in a different graph
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and this embedding thing is the hard part
10:22<andythenorth>which is the different graph? o_O
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: in hardware design they have algorithms to route the "cables" through the chips in layers, splitting, and stuff.
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the naive approach to that is "spanning trees", the more sophisticated is "steiner trees", but it makes the optimizations vastly more complicated
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steiner_tree_problem
10:25<andythenorth>we probably talk at cross-purposes :)
10:25<andythenorth>or not
10:25<andythenorth>can't tell
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you can apply the steiner tree problem to river generation, if you generate N springs and M sinks
10:27<andythenorth>and then you're assuming pathfinding from one to the other?
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>to make each spring connect to at least one sink, and merges somewhere in the middle
10:27<andythenorth>right
10:27<andythenorth>yes
10:27<andythenorth>then the tiles are a walk along the pathfinder
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>it's more complex than simple pathfinding, because the merging point can be moved
10:28<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yup, the ship is drawn over the bridge:p
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: doesn't surprise me at all :)
10:29<andythenorth>I would generate M sinks, and each sink tries to create N springs, where N is local to that sink
10:29<andythenorth>but eh
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that might be simpler, but it might cause intersections
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>as you have no geographical limitation of the springs
10:31<@peter1138>Damn, 270KB for that rivers_v61
10:31<@peter1138>Maybe we should take a look.
10:32<@peter1138>Lots of patches.
10:33<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: pathfind forward, don't join to another river?
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: ic111 said something like he considered turning it into PRs (starting with a simple dropdown for river generator selection) but then didn't have time due to work/life stuff
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that statement makes no sense
10:37<nielsm>split the terrain generator into a wholly separate program!
10:37<nielsm>MAKE IT SCRIPTABLE!
10:37<nielsm>NoTG
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: i imagine that's not actually that hard
10:39<andythenorth>NoFixTropic
10:39<andythenorth>NFT
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the youtube approach: "there is nothing broken with our algorithm"
10:39<@peter1138>I have a separate program for it :D
10:41<@peter1138>Who decided to ditch png 32bpp graphics?
10:41<@peter1138>It was me, right?
10:47<nielsm>hmm, idea on how maybe tg can be fixed for tropic: generate two variations of the landscape settings chosen, one for mountaineous terrain and one for very flat, generate two maps with the settings (same seed), then select a line through the center of the map and make one half the flat version and the other half the mountain version
10:48<nielsm>maybe with some interpolation between
10:48<nielsm>(the original tropical generator always splits the map north/south iirc)
10:51<andythenorth>just using the temperate generator 'fixes' tropic :P
10:51<andythenorth>iirc
10:51<nielsm>isn't the problem with tropic that it occasionally generates too little or too much desert?
10:52<andythenorth>iirc, the problem is that there's a transform somewhere that dumps the entire map to be flat
10:52<andythenorth>it moves all tile heights down
10:52<@peter1138>My standalone generator created several maps and combined them all.
10:52<@peter1138>s/maps/noise maps/
10:52<@peter1138>Ends up with bits being smooth, other bits being rough...
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10:53<@peter1138>You can use the noise in the rough map to create rocks etc.
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: part of the problem is that TGP adds an additional step to flatten the landscape in order to create more desert. this step is apparently a step too far. i think it should probably have been removed with the variety distribution, as it is a similar thing
10:54<andythenorth>https://www.redblobgames.com/x/1723-procedural-river-growing/
10:54<@peter1138>variety distribution needs to be reworked as well, though.
10:55<@peter1138>Maybe we should generate a heightmap around rivers.
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that doesn't address the rectangularness of the map
10:55<@peter1138>Rivers-first.
10:55<nielsm>what does variety distribution even mean?
10:55<nielsm>(in this context)
10:55<@peter1138>nielsm, it means the map isn't the same all over.
10:55<andythenorth>it means you get to spend time clicking on settings
10:55<andythenorth>wondering what they do
10:55<@peter1138>That too.
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: it's an additional overlay function that flattens parts of the map, so it's not uniformly hilly when zoomed out
10:56<@peter1138>However it was done badly.
10:56<@peter1138>By me.
10:56<andythenorth>MVP :P
10:56<@peter1138>It goes too far, it ends up being mostly flat :/
10:56<@peter1138>Maybe it just needs a better way to pick variation to even it out a bit.
10:57<@peter1138>Also it goes wrong on long thin maps, unless that was fixed.
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it was
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11:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so at a quick glance, the general approach of that algorithm might work, if you add some complications for using rectangles instead of triangles. you assign this river flow number and a direction to each tile this way, and then set a threshold for placing an actual river tile (this might be similar to the rainfall generator)
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11:07<andythenorth>obviously my interest was that it started from coast, rather than the details of the algorithm :P
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the foundation of the algorithm is a semi-randomized BFS
11:09<andythenorth>breadth-first search?
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>yes
11:18<m3henry>Woo, another quality blog to put in my RSS reader
11:20<@peter1138>https://simblob.blogspot.com/2018/11/mapgen4.html
11:20<@peter1138>Just take that ;p
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: again, not really appropriate for a rectangular/manhattan distance map
11:22<@peter1138>They never are.
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>(you get this problem a lot, where a solution to arbitrary geometric shapes becomes NP-hard if you want to apply it to a quantised grid)
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11:25<andythenorth>https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-universal-law-for-the-blood-of-the-earth-20181128/
11:27<@peter1138>18mph
11:27<@peter1138>Gusting to 40mph
11:27<@peter1138>This could be an interesting ride home...
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11:31<andythenorth>wind at your back?
11:33<@peter1138>Partially, but gusts are gusts.
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11:37<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, could be the basis of a heightmap type thing.
11:37<@peter1138>But until we have cliffs... meh...
11:37<Gabda>hi
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11:41<Gabda>i'd like to ask for some guthub untagging
11:41<Gabda>wip from https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7120
11:41<Gabda>stale from https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5654
11:42<Gabda>nielsm: thanks
11:44<Samu>nice fix
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12:02<Samu>i got a patch about waterborne industries
12:02<Samu>gonna be rejected i bet
12:03<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199&p=1193646&hilit=waterborne#p1193646
12:03<Samu> "Allow company owned stations to serve water industries" - When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby. When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company stations won't be able to serve them.
12:03<Samu>very much this
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12:06<Samu>any quick veredict before I commit too much into a PR?
12:10<Samu>it would prevent much of st2 servers enforcings only ships carrying waterborne cargo
12:10<Samu>would be a simple game setting
12:15<nielsm>I'm not against the idea of it
12:17<Samu>hmm
12:17<Samu>ok
12:17<Samu>you rejected the exclusive part though, i think it was you
12:19<nielsm>it would have to be done differently
12:20<Samu>gonna see if the implementation still makes sense without it
12:20<nielsm>exclusive rights with neutral stations should instead mean that only vehicles belonging to the exclusive rights company can load cargo at neutral stations (and yes, industry stations should then receive the industry cargo)
12:21<Samu>but only the vehicle that bought the exclusive right
12:21<Samu>wonder if I can do that
12:22<Samu>perhaps i should do that first
12:22<nielsm>in other words, exclusive rights should still be meaningful
12:24<Samu>i'm gonna have to mess with cargo graph, cargo dist and all that, oh boy
12:24<Samu>linkgraph
12:28<nielsm>okay looking through the patch file, it's another of those pervasive adding-an-extremely-specific-flag-parameter-everywhere type things
12:29<nielsm>the kind that just explodes the cyclomatic complexity for small gain
12:29<Samu>uh oh
12:31<nielsm>I'd rather special-case industry-owned neutral stations versus player-owned regular stations and make them collect their acceptance differently
12:38<nielsm>a slightly different way of explaining my issue with the approach is that it's a single, localized concern spreading a root network across a large part of the code base, tangling it in everywhere, exactly the definition of spaghetti code
12:38<nielsm>long strands of separate concerns tangled together
12:47<@peter1138>I untangled some special-casing of road type 'ROAD' in NRT.
12:48<@peter1138>Special casing to make it always available...
12:48<@peter1138>Or we can just set the introduced year property to 0 and that'll do the same, with no special casing.
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12:49<nielsm>the best special case is the one that's not special at all, but just an application of a general rule
12:50<nielsm>the second best is very pinpoint in implementation and easy to discover the existence and impact of
12:51<@peter1138>Hmm, there's already a bridge/ship glitch :/
12:53<Samu>do you refer to addaccepted cargo proc with the on_water parameters?
12:53<Samu>hmm
12:53<Wolf01>o/
12:53<nielsm>Samu yes, and my implication is that the patch as it stands should be scrapped and the idea implemented again in a different way
12:54<Samu>it's happening during tileloop. it's the tiles themselves that look for nearby stations around
12:54<Samu>not the station
12:55<Samu>hmm,
12:55<Wolf01>peter1138: you should give a try to astroneer, they released the stable, such shiny very wow
12:57<Samu>maybe there is another way
13:00<@peter1138>Looks somewhat different.
13:00<Wolf01>Just a bit... :P
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13:02<Wolf01>They changed a lot of mechanics and added some new stuff, like a tractor with trailer to move things around in the early stage, the solar panel array which takes a lot of space, the ability to print the habitat, it's RTG and the oxygen extractor
13:03<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Hmm, there's already a bridge/ship glitch :/ <-- ships are generally the glitchiest part of the game
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>because their bounding boxes are all wrong
13:05<Wolf01>That's because nobody loves ships :(
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>if you make the bounding boxes smaller, there will be cases where the ship is drawn in the wrong place, and if you make it larger, there will be more cases where the alrogithm is triggering undefined behaviour
13:05<andythenorth>ships are the worst
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>ship must be made of several smaller bounding boxes that move in parallel
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>somewhat like CETS vehicles
13:06<Wolf01>Articulated ships
13:07<Wolf01>What happened to sliced trains instead?
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>nothing happened to it?
13:08<Wolf01>Yeah, "nothing"
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>CETS demonstrated the concept, and to my knowledge MB somewhat adapted it to DBSet 0.9
13:09<Wolf01>Mmmh, I'm lagging a bit... 1.7s
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>68ms
13:12<nielsm>spamtime, sry :)
13:12<nielsm>Samu: my idea would be to first modify station_cmd.cpp:UpdateStationAcceptance so it checks whether the station is an industry or player station, if it's an industry station then it just blindly accepts whatever the industry it belongs to accepts, if it's a player station it proceeds as normal.
13:12<nielsm>second part is to modify industry_cmd.cpp:AddAcceptedCargo_Industry such that industry tiles belonging to an industry that has its own station never have any regular acceptance.
13:12<nielsm>third part is to modify industry_cmd.cpp:TransportIndustryGoods so industries with their own station only deliver production to that station and no other.
13:12<nielsm>last is to modify economy.cpp:DeliverGoodsToIndustry such that deliveries to industry stations can only go to the owning industry, and deliveries to player stations can only go to industries without own stations.
13:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on issue #7166: Inconsistency in closest town calculation with threshold https://git.io/fhHRX
13:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 closed issue #7166: Inconsistency in closest town calculation with threshold https://git.io/fhSzS
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13:15<Wolf01>Something un-broke, 120ms stable now
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13:24<Samu>crap, 10 failed hunks, much has changed since then and now
13:26<nielsm>may as well do it over, right?
13:28<@peter1138>I lost count of how many times I rewrote newstations.
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13:30<Samu>i prefer to work backwards
13:30<Samu>well, not exactly, but i want to see how it currently stands
13:33<Samu>eww... afterload and saveload changed drastically
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13:36<andythenorth>oh js
13:36<andythenorth>why :(
13:36<@peter1138>Because
13:36<andythenorth>on every level it's terrible
13:36<andythenorth>I've spent an hour pissing around trying to fix draggables that stopped working
13:37<andythenorth>turns out there's a bug in an unrelated script in the page
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>but if you use <library flavour of the week> you can abstract away all the terribleness
13:37<andythenorth>so jquery barfs
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13:39<Samu>most of the failed hunks is because you changed uint32 into CargoTypes
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13:40<Gabda>Tile virtual coordinates are really odd
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>loads of things in this game are very odd. can you be slightly more specific? :p
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14:05<Samu>noted: https://gist.github.com/SamuXarick/576bba045ab1cff5403ab3c9f8bd4a9d/revisions
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14:12<Samu>the "blindly" part is confusing me
14:12<Samu>ok i see
14:13<Samu>or actually, I don't
14:13<Samu>must test
14:13<Wolf01>Lesson learned: don't play with router if you don't know how to set strange things
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14:14<Eddi|zuHause>worst part is trying to google strange settings when your internet doesn't work :p
14:15<Wolf01>The funny part is that I set it up succesfully before changing to the current setup, not it seem to block everything going outside if I enable it
14:27<@peter1138>Mmm, tuna steak
14:27<andythenorth>kebab
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>i must have caught peak hour at the kebab store, because i waited forever
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>i considered skipping
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>was around 18:00
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14:36<@peter1138>Hmm, what to have for dessert...
14:36<andythenorth>angel delight
14:37<Samu>hmm the on_water information still has to be passed to the industry
14:38<Samu>if it's not passed, what could be done
14:39<Samu>the industry checks itself if it has a station attached to it
14:40<Samu>but... some information about the station doing the request
14:40<Samu>has to be known
14:45<supermop_work_>Eddi|zuHause: i went to a 'berlin style' kebab place for lunch
14:45<supermop_work_>https://kottidoner.com/
14:45<supermop_work_>it was ok
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>are there other styles?
14:45<@peter1138>Hmm, so a simple road type flag... "can be built by towns" ?
14:46<supermop_work_>yes
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>in germany, all döner places are like that
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>and in an average city there are more than mcdonalds and burger king combined
14:47<@peter1138>Looks good, not like any doner here.
14:48<supermop_work_>its not particularly cheap tho
14:48<@peter1138>Here our choice of veg is "lettuce, onion, tomato, tomato, coleslaw, pickled peppers"
14:48<@peter1138>And always in pitta.
14:48<supermop_work_>it's certainly a trying to be hip place playing off the trendiness of berlin in brooklyn
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>the further you get away from berlin the more expensive it gets :p
14:49<@peter1138>Hmm, how do pavements fit into road types?
14:49<supermop_work_>meh
14:49<supermop_work_>however
14:49<supermop_work_>agnostic about it
14:49<@peter1138>Wondering if zones shoulds should get their own flags.
14:49<supermop_work_>thats what derailed it last time
14:49<supermop_work_>sure
14:49<@peter1138>Or maybe that's callback material.
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>(you can easily see this in germany, as the further west and south you get, prices can easily double)
14:49<supermop_work_>town zone for kebab flag
14:50<@peter1138>:D
14:50<supermop_work_>GS to pay 3x for doner kebab delivered from NE corner of map to SW
14:51<andythenorth>kebab economy for FIRS
14:51<andythenorth>I tried a town economy, but cdist wrecks it
14:51<andythenorth>Coffee, Beer, Kebabs
14:51<supermop_work_>maybe its time for mop generic industries
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14:52<@peter1138>It's time to clean my glasses.
14:52<andythenorth>Beer
14:52<andythenorth>Coke
14:52<supermop_work_>Importer -> distributor
14:52<andythenorth>middle class needs
14:52<supermop_work_>is the only chain
14:52<andythenorth>Beer, Craft Beer, Ale
14:53<supermop_work_>port
14:53<supermop_work_>sherry
14:53<@peter1138>Should a town pick one road type and always build it?
14:53<supermop_work_>whiskey
14:53<@peter1138>Or...
14:53<supermop_work_>peter1138: i used to think yes
14:53<@peter1138>But?
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>there's a price index http://blog.sonnenklar.tv/doener-index/
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14:53<supermop_work_>the build type A in zone X, type B in zone Y makes sense too
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>"in each city we picked the 10 places with the best yelp reviews"
14:54<@peter1138>Hmm.
14:54<supermop_work_>not sure if possible to leave that up to the newgrf tho
14:54<@peter1138>Yeah, callbacks could do that.
14:54<supermop_work_>i wouldn't mind towns being different than each other
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i'd rather have it so each roadtype must provide a version for each town zone
14:55<supermop_work_>i wouldn't even mind some towns not being alowed to build roads while others may
14:55<@peter1138>Towns have to have roads.
14:55<supermop_work_>Town A switches from cobbles to asphalt, Town B keeps the cobbles, Town C only ever builds footpaths?
14:56<supermop_work_>idk, there are too may mazes of 'nice to have' for town roads though
14:56<supermop_work_>so best to pick one feature, and just move forward with that
14:57<supermop_work_>whether its road type by year, road type by zone, or road type by town vs city
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>that's up to the growth algorithm to decide whether to replace old roads, there could be a completely separate feature to randomize the "personality" of a town
14:58<supermop_work_>best not to lose NRT again in a morass of how best to simulate the city's engineers office
15:02<@peter1138>It only builds the first road type at the moment, doesn't it?
15:02<supermop_work_>whatever is labeled ROAD i believe
15:03<@peter1138>Nope, ROADSUBTYPE_NORMAL, which is index 0.
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15:15<andythenorth>should I play a game?
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15:19<@peter1138>Yes
15:22<@peter1138>Hmm, town building different road to the AI, so...
15:23<@peter1138>But... that means the flag is not working cos it shouldn't be flagged o_O
15:28<@peter1138>Oh, it is flagged.
15:28<@peter1138>Did roadtypeflag bit 4 mean anything at some point?
15:29<@peter1138>Where is the spec at the moment, even?
15:30<supermop_work_>frosch's is the closest to up to date i think?
15:30<@peter1138>Yeah, but where. I don't have a cluse.
15:30<@peter1138>Nor a clue.
15:32<@peter1138>https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/ButGroundTypes ?
15:32<@peter1138>Wait no
15:32<@peter1138>that's ground types :p
15:33<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes
15:33<@peter1138>Yeah, found it.
15:34<@peter1138>Roadsides are always default?
15:34<@peter1138>Hmm, no.
15:36<andythenorth>should I play the NRT PR?
15:36<andythenorth>:P
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15:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg
15:53<@peter1138>^ Ueahj
15:53<@peter1138>^T Yeah
15:53<@peter1138>^ Yeah
15:54<andythenorth>ok
15:54<andythenorth>I need an industry set
15:54<andythenorth>FIRS *sucks*
15:54<andythenorth>has anyone made one?
15:55<@peter1138>TaI :D
15:55<andythenorth>BAD FEATURES?
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>plenty
15:57<andythenorth>maybe I play a tropic map
15:57<andythenorth>then I can moan about the terrain
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16:04<@peter1138>1950
16:04<@peter1138>Station open for a month.
16:04<@peter1138>190 passengers waiting.
16:10<@peter1138>Hmm, so var 44 contains the town zone.
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: can you try https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjmafahbk with any variety other than "minimal"?
16:14<andythenorth>you paste that _after_ I start a game :P
16:14<andythenorth>ok
16:16<andythenorth>hmm
16:16<andythenorth>I guess to measure difference, need to repeat the seed
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>that might be one way to test it
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16:23<Samu>found a bug on my implementation :(
16:23<Samu>neutral stations could accept cargo of nearby neutral stations
16:24<Samu>can't simply pass a bool
16:24<Samu>have to pass station
16:26<Samu>the acceptor
16:26<Samu>accepter
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16:28<Eddi|zuHause>the scaling for max map height in relation to desert height might need some tweaking too
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>at max height 16 i get mostly green, and at 32 mostly desert
16:30<andythenorth>my hog fails :P
16:30<andythenorth>oops
16:31<Samu>it's not enough for the station to be neutral
16:31<@peter1138>Hog fails?
16:31<andythenorth>I've failed to include NRT in it somehow
16:31<andythenorth>probably because I tried to use branches in mercurial
16:31<@peter1138>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkaSTm0KO6c
16:33<andythenorth>the old version works
16:35<Samu>oops andythenorth your dredging site
16:36<Samu>how did it create a station tile?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: not even the picture on the box inflicts any kind of appetite
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16:39<Samu>nevermind, I misread this
16:39<Samu>sorry
16:40<Samu>just my short memory playing tricks on me, I even have this right
16:44<andythenorth>I could match train livery to the industry colour :P
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: there's all sorts of wrong with this...
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>like it's the wrong kind of bread
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>no salad
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>no 3 types of sauce
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>and probably the meat won't have the right texture as it's probably leftovers-which-you-don't-want-to-know-more-about pushed through a grinder
16:52<Samu>does fishing grounds accept engineering supplies?
16:52<Samu>or is it because there's a dredging site nearby?
16:52<Samu>andythenorth: !
16:53<Samu>not familiar with firs, but it's a good test
16:54<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, looks foul.
16:55<Samu>yeah, this is definitely not the behaviour I was intending
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17:09<Samu>dang, acceptance may not always come from a station
17:09<Samu>can also come from when I'm looking for a place to build a station
17:10<Samu>pre-placement
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17:11<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, back to todays earworm presented by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-8UgDUKcOs
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17:25<@peter1138>Hmm, I need a diagonal station :/
17:26<andythenorth>and bridge
17:26<andythenorth>diagonal station over diagonal bridge
17:26<andythenorth>bridges in tunnels
17:27<@peter1138>:/
17:28<Samu>i need to pass GetAcceptanceAroundTiles the station index which pretty much goes against the point of that function
17:28<Samu>must think
17:31<Samu>it still has to iterate over the industry tiles
17:39<andythenorth>stations in bridges with tunnels over them
17:39<@peter1138>andythenorth, what have you done...https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1218331#p1218331
17:39<@peter1138>a new host...
17:39<andythenorth>SYL is a complete fuckwit
17:39<@planetmaker>moo
17:40<andythenorth>or has legitimate mental health issues
17:40<andythenorth>one or the other
17:45<@peter1138>Who's good with AI?
17:45<@peter1138>I mean, how should the AI interface look? o_O
17:46<andythenorth>who's good with locks?
17:46<andythenorth>this river is all wrong for locks
17:46<@peter1138>:/
17:46<@peter1138>There's a patch for that.
17:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry opened pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2V
17:51<@peter1138>Waaaait.
17:51<@peter1138>When did the CI change?
17:51<@peter1138>m3henry, commit message style "Fix: ..."
17:51<LordAro>ooh
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17:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2V
18:00<m3henry>Fixed fix suffix
18:00<@peter1138>Prefix.
18:00<LordAro>suffix of the prefix
18:00<m3henry>: comes after fix
18:00<@peter1138>Fix: is the prefix, heh.
18:01<@peter1138>But the message is a bit wonky now.
18:01<m3henry>fg
18:01<@peter1138>But hey.
18:02<@peter1138>So basically the line was ignoring the fact that the train was flagged to reverse.
18:02<andythenorth>Fix: bridges in tunnels should be tunnels in bridges
18:02<m3henry>yup
18:02<andythenorth>Commit: bed
18:02<@peter1138>andythenorth, no.
18:03<m3henry>I had noticed it ages ago but never thought to investigate
18:03<@peter1138>This has no bearing on trains not finding a depot when they have a reserved path, does it?
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18:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7192: Codechange: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform https://git.io/fhH2y
18:04<@peter1138>m3henry, nit-picking but I would rather the blank line was kept.
18:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7192: Codechange: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform https://git.io/fhHUg
18:05<@peter1138>Whitespace (including vertical whitespace) helps readability.
18:05<m3henry>I agree
18:06<m3henry>I would naturally have omitted the curly braces
18:06<m3henry>but style guide
18:06<@peter1138>Me too but still.
18:06<@peter1138>Blank line after the closing curly brace.
18:07<m3henry>Anyway, isn't this a minor thing that a reviewer edit would be sufficient for?
18:08<@peter1138>Creates a new commit.
18:09<m3henry>ah,fair neough
18:10<m3henry>Would no curly braces be compliant with the SG?
18:10<@peter1138>Nope. It is what it is.
18:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2V
18:12<LordAro>no braces is only allowed when the statement and condition are on the same line
18:12<LordAro>just leads to a goto fail incident otherwise
18:13<Samu>* @param st_ind_id Industry Index of the station that is accepting (such as Oil Rig stations and Oil Rig industries)
18:14<Samu>is this param name confusing?
18:14<@peter1138>Yes.
18:14<Samu>it's a IndustryID
18:15<Samu>ok, how to name it
18:15<Samu>or maybe, how to english
18:16<@peter1138>Industry index of the station. What does that even mean?
18:16<@peter1138>Is it an index into Station::industries_near?
18:17<Samu>no
18:17<@peter1138>Good.
18:17<nielsm>Samu did you get the writeup of how I'd do that patch earlier?
18:17<Samu>yes, i'm trying to deal with it
18:17<nielsm>because with that method you don't need to alter any function signatures and tiles don't need to know who's asking
18:17<Samu>but it's complex
18:18<@peter1138>LordAro, hmm, looks like the CI's running individual tasks, and the original combined job.
18:18<LordAro>that seems undesirable
18:18<Samu>you see a oil rig industry, it has a neutral station attached to it
18:18<LordAro>are you sure?
18:18<nielsm>oil rigs can end up with no station attached
18:18<nielsm>when there's far too many of them
18:18<nielsm>by the way
18:18<LordAro>hmm, it does look that way
18:19<Samu>that isn't supposed to happen :|
18:19<LordAro>wait no, the individual tasks link through to the same build
18:20<@peter1138>LordAro, indeed, I guess it is a grouping, but it's not clear :-)
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18:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2A
18:21<m3henry>Woo!
18:22<m3henry>Just #7165 to go
18:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2V
18:23<Samu>in my good english: * @param st_ind_id Industry Index that the station attached to this industry is corresponded with
18:24<Samu>lol
18:24<@peter1138>That makes no sense
18:24<LordAro>now you're just repeating yourself
18:25<LordAro>a) "ind_id" does not need to be in the variable name, that's what the type is for
18:25<Samu>I got a station, it's an oil rig station, it is attached to an industry
18:25<LordAro>b) "Industry Index" is just repeating the type again
18:25<Samu>i wanna get the index
18:25<Samu>or actually, I provide the index
18:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7125: Convert singleplayer game to multiplayer server https://git.io/fhH2h
18:26<@peter1138>IndustryID associated with Station
18:26<Samu>yes, that
18:26<@peter1138>IndustryID associated with Station (e.g. oil rig)
18:26<@peter1138>Something like that?
18:26<Samu>yes
18:27<Samu>i will be using it for comparison with other stations that are also neutral, but must ensure they belong to the same industry
18:27<LordAro>or you could pay attention to what nielsm said about it, and not touch the signature at all
18:27<@peter1138>That too.
18:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7189: fluidsynth driver plays music too loudly https://git.io/fhHae
18:28<@peter1138>Sometimes you gotta write the patch yourself.
18:28<Samu>but i have to
18:28<nielsm>no you don't
18:28<nielsm>ypi
18:28<nielsm>ypi
18:28<nielsm>wow
18:28<LordAro>yipee
18:28<nielsm>much typo
18:28<nielsm>you're not getting my idea then
18:28<Samu>I'm trying
18:29<nielsm>don't tell who's asking and have the answer depend on that
18:29<nielsm>instead avoid asking at all
18:29<Samu>i must compare 2 industry indexes
18:29<nielsm>and have industry tiles whose industry owns a station lie about their acceptance (claim they don't accept anything)
18:30<nielsm>player-owned stations query acceptance as normal, from the surrounding tile area
18:30<nielsm>industry-owned stations do not query acceptance from tiles at all, instead just assume the accepted cargos of the industry it belongs to should be what the station accepts
18:31<nielsm>and with industry tiles belonging to an industry with a station lying and claiming they accept nothing, player-owned stations won't get acceptance from those
18:32<nielsm>but in addition to that, when cargo is delivered on a player-owned station, when deciding which industries to deliver the cargo to, never consider an industry that owns a station
18:32<nielsm>and when an industry produces cargo, if it owns a station only deliver it on that station
18:33<nielsm>this way, industry tiles only need to care about the industry itself they belong to, and never about any stations
18:33<nielsm>(the industry should know whether it has a station attached)
18:34<nielsm>(and you won't need to know which station id that is, just that one exists or does not exist)
18:40<Samu>AddAcceptedCargo_Industry
18:40<Samu>but it's still the same function that computes acceptance either way
18:42<nielsm>you're still not reading what I write
18:42<nielsm>where does station acceptance get calculated?
18:42<nielsm>the answer is station_cmd.cpp line 562 UpdateStationAcceptance
18:42<nielsm>that function knows what station is looking for acceptance
18:42<Samu>it will inevitably reach this function
18:43<nielsm>yes and that's too deep
18:43<nielsm>change UpdateStationAcceptance such that industry-owned stations never ask any tiles at all about acceptance
18:44<Samu>but it has to ask for industry tiles still
18:44<nielsm>then AddAcceptedCargo_* functions don't need to know which station is asking
18:44<Samu>even if it doesn't ask the others
18:44<nielsm>no it does not, it can synthesize the acceptance from the industry itself
18:44<nielsm>not the industry tiles, the industry
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18:48<Samu>I can't see this the way you see
18:49<Samu>it has to at least iterate over its own tiles to compute acceptance for the neutral station
18:55<nielsm>completely untested but I think this shows my idea: https://0x0.st/zzrx.txt
18:56<nielsm>okay may not work since Industry::GetByTile requires that the tile is known to be an industry
18:57<nielsm>should be fixed by: if (st->owner == OWNER_DEITY && IsTileType(st->xy, MP_INDUSTRY))
18:57<Samu>but the tile can have acceptance different than that of the industry
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18:58<Samu>like steel mill
18:58<Samu>a station around it, says it accepts passengers, but the steel mill itself, doesn't
18:58<nielsm>yes but name one industry that creates stations and has that property
18:58<Samu>many
18:58<nielsm>for example?
18:58<Samu>oil rig accepts mail
18:58<Samu>but oil rig doesn't accept mail
18:59<Samu>it's the tile that accepts mail
18:59<Samu>it has to iterate the industry tiles
19:00<Samu>one of fishing grounds tile accepts passengers
19:00<Samu>but fishing grounds doesn't accept anything itself
19:01<nielsm>and those examples are something you should have brought up 45 minutes ago
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19:02<nielsm>if you have a proof by contradiction then present the contradiction immediately
19:02<Samu>eh... like I didn't try
19:03<+glx> <@peter1138> LordAro, hmm, looks like the CI's running individual tasks, and the original combined job. <-- that's the azure pipelines update, it now reports tasks individually
19:03<LordAro>nice
19:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #7189: fluidsynth driver plays music too loudly https://git.io/fhHaK
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19:05<nielsm>actually what would be good to have was a better way for industries to indicate they want an attached oil-rig style station
19:06<+glx>was indicated in the comments of https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7163
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19:06<LordAro>nielsm: istr trying that opens a rather large can of worms
19:07<nielsm>yeah it might cause lots of trouble :/
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19:08<nielsm>the simplest would probably be to add another flag to industrytile definitions to control it
19:08-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:09<nielsm>and give the currently magical oil rig tile that property, and remove the special-casing by tile type id
19:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7163: Add: [AzurePipelines] split the CI in two parts: building and commit checking https://git.io/fhHai
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19:31<Samu>* @param st_ind IndustryID associated with Station, if any (e.g. oil rig or INVALID_INDUSTRY)
19:33<Samu>is it clear?
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20:11<Samu>it builds!
20:12<Samu>https://imgur.com/a/0PjdrgY
20:16<Samu>bug was fixed
20:16<Samu>I had Lonnpool Shoals accepting Engineering Supplies
20:16<Samu>because there was a Dredging Site nearby that accepted it
20:18<Samu>back to https://gist.github.com/SamuXarick/576bba045ab1cff5403ab3c9f8bd4a9d/revisions
20:19<Samu>I no longer pass a bool, now I pass IndustryID!
20:19<Samu>INVALID_INDUSTRY is the new false
20:20<Samu>'actual industryid of the oil rig' is the new true!
20:23<Samu>now i just got to not pass this around
20:26<Samu>rereading what nielsm said
20:29<Samu>i think there may be a way
20:32<Samu>still needs to run the iterator in GetAcceptanceAroundTiles, but instead of asking through AddAcceptedCargo
20:32<Samu>it asks directly to AddAcceptedCargo_Industry
20:33<Samu>but... AddAcceptedCargo_Industry is part of a proc thingy, it expect a certain number of parameters
20:33<Samu>and I'm adding one to it
20:33<Samu>will it work?
20:44<Samu>perhaps im not adding
20:44<Samu>perhaps I may not need to add an extra parameter, must test
21:27<Samu>this is it! https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvwc6g3dv
21:27<Samu>now who's the bool expert?
21:27<Samu>must simplify that code
21:28<Samu>wait, maybe this is not it, yet :|
21:29<Samu>must confirm with town tiles if it's correct
21:36<Samu>ah crap it's not correct yet
21:58<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbcxineit
21:58<Samu>there
21:58<Samu>this is correct
21:58<Samu>bool expert needed to simplify this code
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 09 00:00:56 2019