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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-02-13

---Logopened Wed Feb 13 00:00:02 2019
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02:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating.
02:52<@peter1138>Maybe this one will compile on everything :p
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03:00<andythenorth>Mongolian Horse?
03:01<Flygon>Must have a loud whinny.
03:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: isn't that basically just russian horse?
03:05<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: not sure of the politics of that :)
03:05<andythenorth>have to be careful with these things
03:05<andythenorth>dunno where Ukraine fits in that :P
03:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating.
03:06<Eddi|zuHause>that mainly falls apart at the border between european std gauge and wide gauge
03:07<andythenorth>preventing invasion
03:07<Eddi|zuHause>that border shifted a bit around WWII
03:08<Eddi|zuHause>as far as i can tell, it did nothing against an invasion in either direction :p
03:09*andythenorth has been reading books about railroads in war
03:10<andythenorth>no war in OpenTTD :P
03:10<Flygon>Meanwhile Australia can't decide on its gauge because New South Wales ruined everything and reneged on its agreement. >:(
03:10<Flygon>The IDEA was that NSW/VIC/SA would use 1600mm. And Queensland would use 1067mm.
03:11<Flygon>Then the guy in charge in NSW died, got replaced, and the new guy had a real boner for 1435mm.
03:11<Flygon>(Nobody's really mad at Queensland for using a Narrower Gauge, at least. They were at least justified. :v)
03:12<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure railway gauge is the most heated discussion in australia ever.
03:12<Eddi|zuHause>it will be THE pivot topic deciding the next election
03:13<andythenorth>Strayan Horse
03:13<Flygon>It's up there with High Speed Rail.
03:13<andythenorth>what about NBN?
03:13<Flygon>It gets mentioned around Election Season, then dropped quietly.
03:13<Flygon>Oh man.
03:13<Flygon>What're the rules of language in this channel again?
03:13<andythenorth>how's your broadband speed? o_O
03:13<Flygon>How fowl is my language allowed to be?
03:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's certainly not going to be about immigration and concentration camps, or destroying the great barrier reef with coal ships, or something
03:13<Flygon>I get 50/20mbits.
03:14<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: "english only" :p
03:14<Flygon>Eddi|zuHause: Oh boy. The island camps.
03:14<Flygon>Some stuff happened yesterday and this morning regarding that.
03:14<Eddi|zuHause>i read that
03:14<Flygon>But I cbf explaining. You can google. :P
03:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, a very stripped down version of it
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03:15<Flygon>But, yeah.
03:15<Flygon>The uh...
03:15<Flygon>To be stating facts strictly.
03:16<Flygon>The Right Wing Governments here, both State and Federal level.
03:16<Eddi|zuHause>something along the lines of "the last time the opposition passed a law against the government was in 1929"
03:16<Flygon>Are getting absolutely flogged due to the shenanigans they're pulling.
03:16<Flygon>The Victorian Elections went almost unbelievably successfully for the Labor (left wing) party.
03:16<Flygon>Everyone expected them to win. Nobody expected them to win by such a ridiculous margin.
03:17<Flygon>We're expecting repeats in the NSW and Federal Elections in the coming months.
03:18<Flygon>But to explain what's gone on in detail is probably well beyond the scope of #openttd <_>
03:31<andythenorth>89% Horse :P
03:32<andythenorth>it gets to 93% then goes backwards :P
03:32<andythenorth>some kind of Zeno paradox
03:32<Eddi|zuHause>it's always the last 90%...
03:32<andythenorth>maybe it's fractal
03:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating.
03:32<Eddi|zuHause>it'll never be 100%
03:32<andythenorth>the level of precision keeps increasing
03:33<andythenorth>hmm BIAB
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03:33<Eddi|zuHause>it's like closing tickets. the more you close, the faster they regrow :p
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04:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating.
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04:53<andythenorth>vehicle variants then
04:53<andythenorth>for 1.9
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07:13<Eddi|zuHause>i think i got myself in a bit of a pickle
07:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache
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07:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache
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10:44<_dp_>error: static assertion failed: NUM_CARGO == 32
10:44<_dp_>merging escalated quickly :(
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10:57<@peter1138>Merging what?
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11:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache
11:26<_dp_>peter1138, surprising? shouldn't they be just a regular manhattan voronoi cells?
11:26<@peter1138>Surprising as in I've never thought about it.
11:26<@peter1138> In my head it was just a diamond around each town :p
11:28<@peter1138>Voronoi diagrams are not something that I ever learned about.
11:28<_dp_>they're diamond when limited by authority distance
11:28<@peter1138>Except when near other towns.
11:30<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder how switching it to Euclidean would change things.
11:30<@peter1138>I mean in game.
11:30<_dp_>well, for authority it won't change much
11:32<_dp_>for cargo payments tho euclidian will be a huge change
11:32<_dp_>and rail distances
11:32<@peter1138>I just mean for nearest town purposes.
11:33<@peter1138>But yeah, probably not much.
11:33<@peter1138>Might affect which town a station gets associated with in some cases, but not much else.
11:49<@peter1138>I saw a nice generator that used voronoi stuff but I had no idea how to convert it to C++ :/
12:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache
12:08<_dp_>well, in general voronoi usually means computational geometry
12:08<_dp_>town cache is such a simple case that it's basically voronoi in just a name
12:10<nielsm>I agree it might be a bit overreaching naming everything about it voronoi
12:24<_dp_>btw, have anyone checked that new cache matches old authority calculations?
12:24<_dp_>coz the way it's build doesn't look quite right to me
12:28<nielsm>re-add the original check as "dead" code, and make an assert check in the loop that calculates the overall cache
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12:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache
12:48<@peter1138>Yeah, something like that.
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13:15<@peter1138>Oh gods, why did I bother downloading zBase :/
13:16<@peter1138>And it's in hg, not git :/
13:17<@peter1138>Last touched in 2012, gosh.
13:17<@peter1138>I declare it dead. We should remove it ;)
13:17<LordAro>rip zeph
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13:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7224: Change: Use selected group as parent when creating a new group.
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13:53<andythenorth>rivers done? :)
13:53<@peter1138>Have you done it?
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13:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation
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14:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation
14:07<@peter1138>I suppose I should test it, as I wanted it :p
14:07<andythenorth>just ship it
14:07<@peter1138>And, oh my god, how can this pack of rice contain so many calories :/
14:08<samu>I want to suggest a lower max opcodes
14:08<@peter1138>Set a lower max opcodes then.
14:08<samu>5000 with 15 AIs is still
14:08<samu>... heavy
14:10<samu>I was thinking of 1250
14:10<@peter1138>How arbitrary.
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14:11<samu>current default is 10000/medium
14:11<samu>equivalent to 2500/veryfast
14:11<samu>the lowest that can be set right now is 5000
14:12<samu>equivalent to 1250/veryfast
14:12<samu>there, my "math"
14:12<@peter1138>What's veryfast medium about?
14:12<samu>competitor speed, which isn't really what I thought it was
14:13<samu>at medium, it executes once every 4 ticks
14:13<@peter1138>Ah, a hangover from the old difficult settings.
14:13<@peter1138>Hmm, yeah, weird it just makes the AI not do anything for a few ticks.
14:14<samu>and it causes spiky framerate
14:14<@peter1138>It suppose that's what it always did.
14:15<nielsm>smaller bits of work more often sounds better to me
14:15<@peter1138>Seems like it's kinda irrelevant.
14:15<@peter1138>max_opcodes/competitor_speed would spread it out but seems weird too.
14:15<samu>I tried at lower of 500 #opcodes, but it's just too slow
14:16<samu>too sleepy
14:16<samu>even at very fast
14:16<samu>but it can maintain average of 33 fps with 15 ais 4096x4096
14:16<samu>AIs just don't do much :/
14:17<@peter1138>nielsm, I think "leaving things til after 1.9" is only really for something big like NRT that has the potential to cause havoc.
14:17<@peter1138>nielsm, 6965 doesn't have that potential, I think.
14:17<@peter1138>Well yes, AIs don't do much -> it's faster. Not that surprising.
14:20<samu>or just ditch competitor speed alltogether and let us put the equivalent in opcodes
14:20<@peter1138>It's a left over from the old difficulty settings. Hmm.
14:23<samu>current minimum is 5000/veryslow
14:23<@peter1138>Isn't that the wrong way around?
14:24<@peter1138>More opcodes == faster AI.
14:24<@peter1138>Oh, you you mean those values would end up the same.
14:24<samu>312 new minimum
14:26<samu>and AIs would always be very fast from now on
14:26<samu>execute every tick that is
14:28<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder, is there a reason that max_opcodes is not changeable.
14:29<samu>I don't really know
14:29<samu>haven't tried
14:30<@peter1138>Squirrel::Resume(max_ops) seems to code with it being changed.
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14:45<+michi_cc>samu: Competitor speed might not be as pointless as you think; AIs are suspended if they execute a command, even if they have opcodes left. Less commands per time isn't the same as less opcodes per time.
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14:55<@peter1138>michi_cc, ah, of cousre.
14:58<@peter1138>Hmm, can GameScripts impersonate companies?
14:58<@peter1138>Looks like no.
15:08<_dp_>they can
15:09<_dp_>it's almost the only thing they can do :d
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15:21<@peter1138>Hm, I guess I can't call ScriptObject::DoCommand twice in the API :-)
15:26<frosch123>you can
15:27<frosch123>road construction always joins bridges/tunnels/stations with neighbouring tiles
15:28<frosch123>see ScriptBridge::_BuildBridgeRoad1/2
15:32<@peter1138>Oh, right.
15:34<@peter1138>I see, it's basically a callback function.
15:35<frosch123>it's waiting for c++20 coroutines :p
15:43<LordAro>oh no
15:43<samu>LordAro: your AI is very effective
15:43<@peter1138>Ok, maybe it would just be better to make the AI make two separate calls.
15:44<samu>doesn't need many opcodes, or speed to have things going
15:44<samu>mine, on the other hand... is tragic
15:45<samu>unless it's only allowed airports, that doesn't need much thinking
15:47<@peter1138>Hmm, having to copy enums just for the AI is annoying :/
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16:03<samu>well, just let me input a value lower than 5000 at least
16:03<samu>the minimum I ask
16:04<@peter1138>samu, you know how to submit a PR.
16:04<samu>does it really warrant a PR? :o
16:05<@peter1138>Everyone has to do PR.
16:05<m3henry>Either a PR or overwrite priveledge is how it works
16:06<@peter1138>Nobody it set up to be able to push directly.
16:06<m3henry>Is good idea
16:06<samu>finally the dream of 4096x4096 with 15 AIs running is close
16:07<samu>without much lag
16:07<samu>unpit delay
16:07<samu>or i may just need a better cpu
16:07<@peter1138>Yeah but it'll take them ages to do anything.
16:09<samu>I'd like to suggest different defaults while I'm at it, but that's asking too much i guess
16:12<samu>besides, I'm not 100% confident, only about 95%
16:12<@peter1138>So what could AIs do with vehicle groups?
16:13<@peter1138>I know they can create them.
16:13<samu>easy to the eye
16:13<samu>see a group for each route
16:13<samu>see how good the route performs
16:14<@peter1138>Would subgroups be useful?
16:14<@peter1138>Currently AIs can't set parent group.
16:14<samu>not sure what's a subgroup
16:14<@peter1138>Groups can be arranged to have parents, a heirarchical structure./
16:14<@peter1138>So you can create groups within groups.
16:15<@peter1138>But this not available to AIs.
16:15<samu>also groups can have their own autoreplace, instead of a global autoreplace
16:15<@peter1138>At least, unless I commit this patch.
16:15<samu>i think groups are also lighter in terms of creating lists
16:16<samu>vehicle lists
16:16<@peter1138>Yeah, you can get a smaller list that's already filtered.
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16:30<samu>312 is such a weird number
16:30<samu>not a round num
16:31<samu>what do you say of 312-250000 opcodes?
16:31<samu>instead of 5000-250000
16:35<LordAro>samu: :)
16:37<@peter1138>Ooh, that's good goat's cheese
16:38<@peter1138>Weirdly, combined with the cracker it has a definite sweetness, but each by themselves does not...
16:38<samu>by math, the number is 312.5
16:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
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16:51<@peter1138>Ok, so what AI class would a list of company/group colours come under?
16:52<@peter1138>The colour list is used by widget codes throughout the game...
16:55<+glx>hmm both
16:55<@peter1138>Seems odd.
16:55<+glx>well the list is linked to the company I think
16:56<+glx>and groups use colors from the list
16:56<@peter1138>The list of colours is defined in gfx_type.h
17:02<@peter1138>Colours could potentially be used for something else, maybe.
17:07<samu>is it possible for AIs to get the profit a group is making?
17:08<@peter1138>Looks like no at the moment.
17:08<samu>profit this year
17:08<samu>profit last year
17:08<samu>current usage
17:08<@peter1138>Hmm, individual vehicles.
17:08<@peter1138>I'll try adding it.
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17:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
17:16<@peter1138>I wonder, is that a group function or a vehicle function?
17:17<@peter1138>It needs to iterate vehicles, rather than groups.
17:19<andythenorth>vehicle variants
17:20*andythenorth digresses
17:20<@peter1138>Oh, and I forgot about subgroups :/
17:20<@peter1138>Although I think subgroups are ignored for display anyway. Hmm.
17:20<@peter1138>andythenorth, Yes No
17:20<@peter1138>NRT testing/
17:20<andythenorth>I am testink
17:28<@peter1138>Wait, Minecraft now has foxes...
17:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
17:32<@peter1138>samu, ^ could try that PR.
17:38<+glx>hmm but if AI wan't group profit, it can do the addition
17:38<@peter1138>Can it? Hmm.
17:39<+glx>it can get all the vehicles from the group I think
17:39<+glx>then valute
17:39<@peter1138>Well that was a waste of my time then.
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17:40<@peter1138>Although, for last year profit, it's already cached so getting that would be quicker.
17:40<+glx>well if the player has access to the sum,AI should too, but if player don't then AI should do itself
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17:41<@peter1138>Yeah, player can see it in the groups window.
17:41<@peter1138>Hmm, also this "current usage %" thing
17:41<+glx>so it's ok to give the stats to the AI too then
17:42<@peter1138>I better add the current usage stuff :D
17:42<+glx>I think the rule is AI and player should get the same infos
17:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
17:53<@peter1138>"/azure-pipelines-ci.yml: Unable to find file /azure-pipelines/templates/ci-git-rebase.yml in repository self using ref refs/pull/7225/merge and commit 902ca7899805ed51b3ef2b8f25018ff5a28b1261: Not Found"
17:53<@peter1138>Hmm, well...!
17:56<LordAro>well that's inconvenient
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18:10<+glx>weird error
18:13<@peter1138>The build # is different.
18:13<+glx>yes and that's weird too
18:14<+glx>hmm build number is correct indeed
18:14<+glx>just not yet replaced with date
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18:19<@peter1138>Working this time.
18:20<+glx>maybe a network issue in the precedent pull
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20:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #7226: NPF: Ship: Assertion failure when ship encounters shore
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21:22<supermop_Home>yo Pikka
21:38<Pikka>yo yo
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 14 00:00:03 2019