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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-02-16

---Logopened Sat Feb 16 00:00:06 2019
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01:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Moth-Tolias commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache
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02:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
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02:37<nielsm>hm one of the changes already in was that oil rigs check a larger area for clear water, right? meaning they should no longer clump quite this bad, right?
02:42<Flygon>Quite clumped.
02:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations.
02:51<@peter1138> < original catchment
02:51<@peter1138> < modified catchment
02:51<@peter1138> < new sparse catchment
02:52<@peter1138>nielsm, dunno but that looks profitable (without the neutral stations patch)
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02:52<nielsm>yes :P
02:52<nielsm>a quite good proposition to fill in the ocean
02:53<@peter1138>Hmm, so station-walking is still worth doing, and it doesn't take much to just plonk down drive-through road stops every 7 tiles.
02:53<nielsm>and those catchment areas look nice
02:53<@peter1138>That's all just one station, btw.
02:54<@peter1138>Oh, well I suppose that's obvious part from the last pic :)
02:54<nielsm>yeah, it's still excessive-ish, but at least better and more intuitive
02:55<@peter1138>This is a save taken from the current reddit multiplayer server.
02:55<@peter1138>So this white player is very good at station-spreading.
02:55<nielsm>above that you'd just have to decrease max station spread
02:55<@peter1138>If I do it I tend to just stick a bus-stop in each corner.
02:55<@peter1138>In fact, the way this player does it makes me think they think catchment already works like the last pic.
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02:55<nielsm>(if you don't want players abusing it)
02:56<nielsm>only those of those bus stops are actually required
02:56<nielsm>only two of*
02:56<@peter1138>So the big issue with this patch is the FOR_ALL_STATIONS loop within FindStationsAroundTiles()
02:57<nielsm>and btw, variable catchment area is the modified catchment area, the fixed area is the original
02:57<@peter1138>Did I mislabel it?
02:58<nielsm>yes when you linked those screenshots above :)
02:58<nielsm>bbl, shower
03:01<@peter1138>Are you sure?
03:02<@peter1138>I keep looking and I can't see it :p
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03:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
03:10<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2, ^^
03:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
03:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations.
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03:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
03:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations.
03:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations.
03:36<nielsm>well, it looks like Samu doesn't have the experience with software to judge maintainability of code well, so it's no bit surprise when his patches end up as spaghetti...
03:37<@peter1138>Yeah, definitely a "well this seems to work" approach.
03:37<@peter1138>But damn, #7235's performance hit :(
03:38<nielsm>it's bad
03:38<@peter1138>Also I realise now it 'break' the existing industry->station catchment test.
03:39<@peter1138>(It makes that work like people expect too)
03:39<@peter1138>If I add the tile-looping back in and build a station list that way, it should improve things.
03:40<@peter1138>Need to increase the map array to store all nearby stations to a tile ;)
03:40<@peter1138>Hmm. Actually it is doable.
03:41<@peter1138>Could add stations_nearby to industry and towns, and just check those lists.
03:41<@peter1138>Maintaining those lists could be fun :/
03:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
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04:13<andythenorth>so should I do pacers pikka bob?
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05:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #48:
05:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version?
05:56<TrueBrain>we really need Slack / Discord :P
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05:59<@planetmaker>We got a request by the owners of r/openttd whether they could be listed as the official OpenTTD discord channel. Any terms and requirements we might have are open to discussion
05:59<@planetmaker>moin also :)
05:59<TrueBrain>in my opinion, we need 1 official channel. So either IRC, Discord, Slack, ...
06:00<LordAro>doesn't make much sense for them to be the "official" channel
06:00<TrueBrain>I personally don't really care; I just noticed that IRC is not really helping with communication :D
06:00<@planetmaker>So ... if we want that. We actually could do that. And as you probably know best... there are IRC2discord bridges
06:00<LordAro>they can be the official unofficial channel
06:00<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I agree
06:00<TrueBrain>so shall we just do that? :P
06:00<@planetmaker>how is discord really better than IRC - or vice versa?
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>let's move back to freenode? :p
06:00<TrueBrain>I can make a 'finger' channel, where people using it can join
06:00<TrueBrain>so we can chat
06:01<TrueBrain>yes, you can make 'channels' on IRC
06:01<TrueBrain>but nobody would know they exist :P
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06:01<@planetmaker>would people know on discord?
06:01<TrueBrain>it lists it on the left
06:01<TrueBrain>including descriptions
06:01<TrueBrain>super-duba-useful :)
06:01<Wolf01>So you want me to move on discord?
06:01<TrueBrain>(among many other reasons, but this one triggered my comment :D)
06:02<@planetmaker>my personal opinion on that is: iff we make an official openttd discord, then it would need an irc2discord bridge
06:02<TrueBrain>Discord closed down their IRC gateway
06:02<@planetmaker>really? :(
06:02<TrueBrain>over a year ago, I believe?
06:02<LordAro>i would have a very difficult time moving to discord
06:02<@planetmaker>I'm pretty sure I've seen irc2discord briges in the wild much more recently
06:03<TrueBrain>so you need third party stuff like
06:03<Eddi|zuHause>what definitely won't work is having two separate chats in parallel
06:03<LordAro>so much this
06:03<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: exactly; one or the other, not both
06:03<@planetmaker>I totally agree with eddi
06:03<TrueBrain>if people want to bridge in themself, fine
06:03<TrueBrain>LordAro: "very difficult time" is hard to argue with, as no reason is given :D
06:03<TrueBrain>if you could word why that would be difficult? (I know that can be difficult)
06:03<Eddi|zuHause>i've never even looked at what discord is
06:04<TrueBrain>after all:
06:04<Wolf01>I have my own empty channels on IRC :P
06:04<@planetmaker>tbh, I'm more comfortable with IRC. It's more light weight to some degree... yet discord seems slightly more accessible. But there's web interfaces to both
06:04<TrueBrain>Discord / Slack is much more accessible by a large portion of nowedays developers
06:04<TrueBrain>but more important, users
06:04<@planetmaker>anyhow, what do *you* think, TB, we would gain by switching to or integrating discord?
06:05<TrueBrain>IRC is really alienating for users
06:05<LordAro>if anything irc is easier for users to join one-off
06:05<LordAro>no faffing around with sign up
06:05<Eddi|zuHause>discord means installing a single proprietary client instead of having a choice?
06:05<TrueBrain>LordAro: I disagree; how many passing-by users do we have, a month? :D
06:05<@planetmaker>discord has a web interface. You might need an account, though... which is a clear negative
06:05<LordAro>how many would there be with discord?
06:06<LordAro>you say that as if there would be more with discord
06:06<TrueBrain>LordAro: other projects have shown there would
06:06<TrueBrain>but of course, one cannot predict the future
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>is "random passer-by" really the target audience for this move?
06:06<TrueBrain>btw, I keep saying Slack / Discord, as they both have their pros and cons
06:06<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, where are those numbers (and not just claims)?
06:06<Wolf01>Also new DorpsGek?
06:07<TrueBrain>planetmaker: good question if someone wrote it down (either way btw); it is just what other projects have shown :) (there is a reason Slack is so popular, after all)
06:07<LordAro>i don't think i know anyone who actually likes using slack
06:07<@planetmaker>I've never used slack. So... not my experience of it being popular. It might be for people who are in some fields software development
06:07<@planetmaker>but not generally
06:08<@planetmaker>thus I doubt it's "more accessible"
06:08<TrueBrain>what might help, if you just joina Slack and/or Discord channel
06:08<TrueBrain>to see for yourself
06:08<@planetmaker>I know discord. I use it to some degree. It's ... mixed benefits and drawbacks IMHO
06:08<TrueBrain>nothing is perfect, after all
06:08<TrueBrain>planetmaker: not sure about your Slack statement :)
06:09<TrueBrain>but your current field might not use it much
06:09<TrueBrain>that is hard to argue :)
06:09<TrueBrain>most companies I know, even outside IT, use Slack these days; not sure that is a good or bad thing btw
06:09<TrueBrain>or Microsoft Teams
06:09<TrueBrain>but .. meh .. paid :P
06:09<LordAro>(premium) slack is not cheap
06:10<@planetmaker>I will never agree to a vendor-locked-in communication means for an OSS project
06:10<LordAro>and the free slack gets limiting very quickly
06:10<TrueBrain>last we checked, we don't need premium LordAro :)
06:10<TrueBrain>planetmaker: where did that came from? :P
06:10<TrueBrain>(like a truck from the left :D)
06:10<@Alberth>no free open source clients for discord?
06:11<TrueBrain>I always have a hard time with these arguments .. like we are now not 'vendor locked' into OFTC? :P
06:11<LordAro>TrueBrain: free slack has very limited scrollback and storage
06:11<TrueBrain>I don't really understand (but please explain)
06:11<@Alberth>TB: oftc is a channel provider, not a software client provider
06:11<Wolf01>We could just install our irc server, you know
06:11<TrueBrain>LordAro: as we have these conversations every N months currently, I should write these things down ..but didnt they have an OSS thingy?
06:11<Wolf01>But not our discord
06:11<TrueBrain>but the migration would be the same?
06:12<TrueBrain>so how is migration from 1 IRC server to another different from 1 software to the other?
06:12<@planetmaker>discord is discord, and no real alternatives to access it. As far as I could establish it.
06:12<TrueBrain>(honest question)
06:12<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, the migration is MUCH easier as you only need to point your irc client to another server
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>just a random thing i found:
06:12<@planetmaker>not install a new software
06:12<LordAro>it's an awful lot easier for existing irc users to move to a different network/server to a completely different platform
06:12<@Alberth>discord looks very vendor-locked to me
06:12<LordAro>can confirm
06:13<LordAro>there are no third party clients
06:13<LordAro>and they actively work to shut down any that appear, last i checked
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>so from the 5 minutes of random searching i just did, i would say slack, not discord
06:13<@planetmaker>yep, I have to agree @ alberth, LordAro
06:13<LordAro>both slack & discord have gotten rid of their irc gateways in the last year
06:13<TrueBrain>anyway, how did we end up in this converstaion? Ah, yes, I was looking for a way so we could more easier talk about people using finger, and people creating finger .. this is currently rather annoying, as changes are now reactive (as you can see by the tickets / threads)
06:13<LordAro>it's a one off change though?
06:14<@planetmaker>ok, TrueBrain how would discord or slack have made this conversation easier?
06:14<TrueBrain>for years I didnt dare to change finger, as it would break people using it
06:14<TrueBrain>which is not ideal :)
06:14<TrueBrain>planetmaker: because you make a channel dedicated to people using it
06:14<TrueBrain>most Discord servers I am in, ahve an API group
06:14<@planetmaker>All discord I used so far, searching through any history is much more a PITA than here on IRC, if I really care
06:14<LordAro>make the old one redirect to a page documenting the current format/location
06:14<TrueBrain>where people using the API are in
06:14<TrueBrain>absolutely briliant
06:14<TrueBrain>LordAro: that just breaks tools
06:14<TrueBrain>would take weeks for the authors to notice, if that
06:15<TrueBrain>(reactive changes .. I am rather proactive in these)
06:15<TrueBrain>a maillist is also shitty
06:15<LordAro>i don't think there are ideal solutions to removing a well used endpoint
06:15<LordAro>(with no notice)
06:15<TrueBrain>and keeping it compatible is also rather difficult
06:16<@planetmaker>but... you don't want a separate channel for each topic. You can have that here, too
06:16<TrueBrain>so I now just see people being a bit mad their tool no longer works :D
06:16<TrueBrain>as I had no way of reaching them before hand
06:16<TrueBrain>wonder what we can do to fix that
06:16<TrueBrain>(instead of debating Slack vs IRC and stuff :P)
06:16<@planetmaker>:) k
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: tbh i doubt slack/discord would help reaching people who set up finger 5 years ago
06:17<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: again, I am no longer interested in that debate :)
06:18<TrueBrain>I am asking for ideas to solve this reactive stance toward endpoint changes
06:18<TrueBrain>I find it shitty towards people creating those tools
06:18<@Alberth>make a REST api on some http ?
06:18<TrueBrain>now finding out via forum redirects and issue redirects that things changed
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>a news post on the main website?
06:19<LordAro>how about making the old endpoint return a 404 that contains a link to some page? it assumes they handle http error codes well, but we're not responsible for the quality of their software
06:19<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: we noticed they don't read that (do people read our news post in general? :D)
06:19<TrueBrain>Alberth: hmm .. but that would mean we have to keep compatibility for ever, not?
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: don't bury it in paragraph 5 of a "we made a website redesign" post
06:19<TrueBrain>LordAro: that again breaks it before the tool creators can fix it :)
06:20<TrueBrain>(and clearly the tool creators are still around :P)
06:20<LordAro>of course it does
06:20<LordAro>there's no way to do anything about it
06:20<TrueBrain>I mean, 3 people in 1 month, that is more than I expected :D
06:20<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: guess a 'developer news' of some sorts :P
06:20<LordAro>if there was some sort of grace period, it might be more effective, but the nature of it meant that one was turned off straight away
06:20<TrueBrain>LordAro: yup ..
06:21<LordAro>sometimes you can't have a nice failover
06:21<TrueBrain>and creating 10 hoops so things keep working, is not my favorite job in the world :D
06:21<TrueBrain>meh; it just feels like a shitty thing
06:21<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, if you don't want to discuss a topic (slack...) you should not always bring it up (again) ;)
06:21<TrueBrain>also keeps me from making changes
06:22<TrueBrain>planetmaker: if you read back, I just gave a solution for a problem I was facing (the problem I described in the link that was posted just before)
06:22<TrueBrain>I meant nothing by it, just some frustration that I did not have a solution
06:22<TrueBrain>you made it a topic :)
06:22<TrueBrain>(sorry, but you did :P)
06:22<LordAro>10:56:36 < TrueBrain> we really need Slack / Discord :P
06:22<TrueBrain>LordAro: one line above please :)
06:22<LordAro>eh, tenuous
06:23<TrueBrain>either way, talking about Slack vs IRC is healthy; but so far we have been going in circles when it comes up
06:23<TrueBrain>so that is not a useful way to spend any of our times :)
06:23<TrueBrain>so I rather agree that we disagree ;)
06:23<TrueBrain>Dev Blog?
06:23<TrueBrain>would that help?
06:24<TrueBrain>"news" sounds so official
06:24<LordAro>not any more than news posts would've, imo
06:24<TrueBrain>for example, a nice dev blog would be to talk about NRT
06:24<TrueBrain>but I wouldnt make a post out of it before it is merged
06:24<@planetmaker>News or dev blog. No need really to separate that
06:24<TrueBrain>we always have been posting news post-fact
06:25<@planetmaker>Just give the posting an appropriate title - that's it
06:25<TrueBrain>dev-blogs tend to be pre
06:25<TrueBrain>but, just spinning ideas here
06:25<@Alberth>don't see how a REST api cannot have a version, and state what version is deprecated or 'expires in X months'
06:25<LordAro>i have a suspicion a dev blog would be used less than news, therefore people would not check it anyway
06:25<TrueBrain>Alberth: I agree; I guess my main worry is that people won't notice they use a deprecated endpoint
06:25<TrueBrain>I guess in essence that is what I now notice?
06:25<TrueBrain>LordAro: fair
06:26<@planetmaker>creating yet another communication channel which needs establishment won't help anyone
06:26<@Alberth>you need enough posts on the blog I think to keep people, but then the topics diversify too mcuh perhaps?
06:26<TrueBrain>but, instead of saying "no", what can we do to make this a bit better?
06:26<@planetmaker>and certainly would not reach the people we would need to reach with change news like now
06:26<LordAro>ultimately it requires someone to notice something, which isn't something you can force *without* breaking something
06:26<TrueBrain>always enough arguments to not do something ;)
06:26<LordAro>something something
06:26<TrueBrain>as I just mentioned, I guess the same goes for things like NRT
06:26<@planetmaker>And... I don't have the feeling that our news postings are so frequent that people are hiding them already
06:27<TrueBrain>would be nice if that is a bit more widely spread, so people can participate before it hits master
06:27<@Alberth>define the api to check expiration, and warn users
06:27<TrueBrain>Alberth: what I have seen, is that you need to add an email to the UserAgent when using REST APIs
06:27<TrueBrain>then you get an email on that address if you using an outdated endpoint
06:28<TrueBrain>which was pretty nice, tbh
06:28<LordAro>i do quite like the idea of a dev blog though, maybe just use the news platform until it's clear it's actually going to be used
06:28<TrueBrain>LordAro: where it is located, that is another story indeed :)
06:28<@Alberth>you expect people to use the api so few times that the deprecation period has ended before they notice?
06:28<TrueBrain>but 'dev blog' sounds less official than 'news' :D
06:28<TrueBrain>Alberth: yes
06:29<TrueBrain>Alberth: how these tools often go, how I make those tools: I use an endpoint, and I completely forget I do
06:29<Wolf01><LordAro> i have a suspicion a dev blog would be used less than news <- just copy-paste some irc log lines once a week :P
06:30<@Alberth>set up polling some access that barks when the requested version becomes depricated
06:30<TrueBrain>Alberth: but how does the author notice, is my point
06:30<TrueBrain>(instead of the enduser)
06:31<@Alberth>how do you make sure the author just walks away from the project?
06:31<TrueBrain>those are not my interest; those tools die
06:31<TrueBrain>so be it
06:31<LordAro>speaking of, /me reads some FF
06:32<TrueBrain>ah :P
06:32<LordAro>@seen V453000
06:32<@DorpsGek>LordAro: V453000 was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 21 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <V453000> :0
06:33<TrueBrain>LordAro: those FFs are a perfect example of 'dev blogs' btw
06:33<TrueBrain>and how that helps with community participation :)
06:33<Wolf01>FFF, not FF :P
06:34<TrueBrain>fine, FFF
06:34<TrueBrain>blame LordAro :P
06:34<LordAro>Wolf01: i forgot the "Factorio" on the beginning
06:34<TrueBrain>I guess what I am saying in a broader context, that in my opinion OpenTTD could be a bit more outwards, but I am missing the ways to do that
06:34<LordAro>monthly seems more likely than weekly, but we could give it a go
06:34<TrueBrain>doesn't feel that things are 'collaberations'
06:34<Wolf01>That's a really interesting dev blog, maybe it's not always interesting for the end user, but I'm glad it is done
06:35<LordAro>there's also
06:35<@planetmaker>@LordAro, FFF ;)
06:35<@planetmaker>and I'm slow
06:35<TrueBrain>LordAro: good example
06:35<TrueBrain>I always read the GitHub blog and DigitalOcean
06:35<TrueBrain>really nice way to stay up-to-date
06:36<TrueBrain>like for example:
06:36<Wolf01>It could be nice to do the OTTD dev blog, just reporting what we discuss here and andy's ponies too :P
06:36<TrueBrain>no more WIP PRs :D
06:36<TrueBrain>Wolf01: especially the ponies :)
06:36<TrueBrain>possibly add things like new GRFs, and in-progress screenshots of that
06:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
06:36<TrueBrain>things like the talks about Squirrel 2 vs 3
06:36<TrueBrain>but as always, who is going to pull that car ...
06:37<TrueBrain>we need a community manager tbfh :)
06:37<Wolf01>We could add some lines together
06:37<TrueBrain>I first need to put a lunch together now :)
06:39<LordAro>TrueBrain: sounds like Wolf01 just volunteered :p
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>a "developer blog" only works if people regularly take time to write something
06:40<LordAro>if we just start it off as a "Dev News Post" with the view to making it approximately monthly, we can review if it needs splitting out later
06:40<@Alberth>TrueBrain: why is it impossible to request that the author polls some url every X time?
06:41<@Alberth>once a week/month or so
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>also, i think "make a pull request" isn't the right approach to find people making news posts
06:41<TrueBrain>Alberth: I guess I don't understand what you mean :) Can you elaborate a bit more?
06:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
06:42<@Alberth>TrueBrain: you're worried that our service gets changed without the author of some client knows, right?
06:42<Wolf01><LordAro> TrueBrain: sounds like Wolf01 just volunteered :p <- I could help, but not taking the whole task :P
06:42<TrueBrain>Alberth: yes
06:42<@planetmaker><LordAro> if we just start it off as a "Dev News Post" <-- you mean as title for a posting in our normal news? I totally agree
06:42<@Alberth>TrueBrain: so why not request of him to ask our sevice every X weeks if something interesting happened?
06:43<@Alberth>cron | mail me
06:43<TrueBrain>LordAro: guess if we make a branch in 'website' for it, without permissions, and make a PR from there, anyone can add to the post before we merge the PR
06:43<TrueBrain>Alberth: and if they don't, you disable their API access?
06:43<TrueBrain>or you just mean as: in best practice, we suggest you to?
06:43<TrueBrain>that last one is not a bad idea, tbh
06:43<@Alberth>their tool will eventually die due to protocol chnages
06:43<TrueBrain>didn't consider that
06:44<@Alberth>just like a author walking out
06:44<Wolf01>I think everytime somebody has a big talk about a feature/change/request/pony should put it on a descriptive way, commenting it and explaining the outcome
06:44<LordAro>TrueBrain: can such a branch exist?:
06:45<TrueBrain>I think so
06:45<TrueBrain>and that means you can use GitHub interface to edit
06:45<TrueBrain>so no 'git' knowledge required
06:45<@planetmaker>like edit in the browser?
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure i understand what you mean, but a simple website editor is definitely preferable
06:47<TrueBrain>I think anyone can edit that now
06:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
06:48<TrueBrain>there, even a PR
06:48<TrueBrain>which updates when ever someone modifies the branch
06:48<@planetmaker>seems I can, yes
06:48<@planetmaker>but I'm logged-in to GH
06:48<TrueBrain>I think I cannot make it easier :P
06:48<@planetmaker>that totally suffices
06:49<LordAro>well, i imagine we don't want it to be open to "everyone"
06:49<TrueBrain>sorry, with "everyone" I meant "everyone who is logged in to GH" :P
06:49<LordAro>do we even want that?
06:49<TrueBrain>LordAro: abuse will be punished? :)
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>can we undo edits?
06:49<LordAro>who would be likely to edit it that isn't a dev?
06:49<TrueBrain>if _dp_ wants to talk about CityMania, I am fine with that tbh
06:49<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: they are commits, so yes
06:50<TrueBrain>I would suggest we start without restrictions, and add them when needed?
06:50<TrueBrain>(after all, accepting the PR needs a dev approval anyway)
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly is the actual definition of "Ponies" anyway, besides the animal?
06:51<TrueBrain>otherwise andy might not feel included!
06:51<@planetmaker>your personal projects you go wild about
06:52<TrueBrain>Personal Official NonPublished Interesting En-devour
06:52<@planetmaker>so I guess your pony could be CETS and anything related to it ;)
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>so, where is the edit button?
06:52<@planetmaker>it is even an acronym? :OL
06:52<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: if we were on Discord, I could have showed you a screenshot :P
06:52<TrueBrain>planetmaker: no, I made it up :)
06:52<TrueBrain>but tnx for believing it :D
06:52<@planetmaker>sounded credible
06:52<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: its a pencil
06:53<TrueBrain>Raw, Blame, History, screen, pencil, trashcan
06:53<Wolf01><TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: if we were on Discord, I could have showed you a screenshot :P <- reduce traffic, post a link :P
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>" You’re editing a file in a project you don’t have write access to. Submitting a change to this file will write it to a new branch in your fork Eddi-z/website, so you can send a pull request. "
06:53<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: hmm ..
06:53<TrueBrain>where is that restriction coming from ..
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06:55<TrueBrain>hmm .. nowhere? :(
06:56<TrueBrain>ah .. you can only set that project-wide
06:57<TrueBrain>(so for all OpenTTD repositories)
06:57<TrueBrain>that is a bit much
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>can't have branches with more relaxed access?
06:57<TrueBrain>I was hoping they did
06:58<TrueBrain>but I cannot find what prevents you from editing
06:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
06:58<TrueBrain>possibly this helps?
06:58<LordAro>i was going to start by listing the merged PRs for the last month
06:58<LordAro>but there's *a lot*
06:58<LordAro>gonna want to script that
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: sounds like a bit much
06:59<LordAro>yeah, maybe "notable" instead?
06:59<LordAro>or not at all?
07:00<TrueBrain>possibly in story form, link a few
07:00<TrueBrain>like I expect some fuzz about network version
07:00<TrueBrain>and beta1/beta2
07:01<TrueBrain>ah; Eddi|zuHause, seems you need to be a Contributor first :)
07:01<TrueBrain>so we are just going to add people on request for now
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>so i'm only a contributor on OpenTTD project, but not Website project?
07:01<TrueBrain>contributor is per repository, yes
07:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain reopened pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
07:02<@planetmaker>LordAro, it is good to actually include the PRs of last month. Too much... maybe. You can still curate / manually go over the list created by such script
07:05<@planetmaker><TrueBrain> [12:01:02] ah; Eddi|zuHause, seems you need to be a Contributor first :) <-- that's fair, I guess. Anyone who wants to contribute to the blog can easily be made a contributor, I guess
07:05<@planetmaker>we're not too picky about that, are we?
07:05<LordAro>planetmaker: keep reading :p
07:06<LordAro>i'll see if i can come up with some sort of script for getting merged PRs
07:06<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I am not, no :P
07:06<TrueBrain>cant speak for others :)
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>now, how can i go from the PR back to the file that should be edited?
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07:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
07:14<TrueBrain>now I wonder what happens if I commit this, whil eI was working on an older version ..
07:15<TrueBrain>"Eddi-z has committed since you started editing. See what changed"
07:15<TrueBrain>clicking that link means losing your change :D Nice!
07:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
07:17<TrueBrain>not sure I like the way I wrote some of that, but .. just to get it going a bit, I guess
07:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #48:
07:19<TrueBrain>yeah, you can say a lot about GitHub, but this is done pretty nice :D
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07:26<LordAro>curl -s "" | jq 'map(select(.merged_at >= "2019-02-01")) | .[].title'
07:27<TrueBrain>jq is nice :)
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>for when awk is too simple? :p
07:27<TrueBrain>for when the payload is JSON, you silly :)
07:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
07:31<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: what often helps, is to put every sentence on a new line. When making changes, the diff doesn't become this single line :)
07:31<TrueBrain>just a pro-tip when editing markdown files :)
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>ok, might remember that next time
07:31<TrueBrain>and I like your addition
07:31<TrueBrain>possibly we have to make clear that we just add anyone as contributor
07:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
07:32<TrueBrain>but we need them to have a simple way to find us
07:33<LordAro>curl -s "" | jq 'map(select(.merged_at >= "2019-02-01")) | .[] | "[\(.title)](\(.html_url))"' | sed 's/\\"/"/g; s/^"\(.*\)"$/\1/'
07:33<LordAro>preformatted markdown urls
07:33<TrueBrain>that sed ..
07:33<LordAro>it's great
07:33<LordAro>i don't know what you're talking about :p
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>what does ".[]" do?
07:35<LordAro>expands the list
07:35<LordAro>i think
07:36<LordAro>seems like it's not necessary
07:39<Wolf01>Mmmh, I never noticed that:
07:39<Wolf01>It's derailed
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07:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
07:51<TrueBrain>I like this GitHub interface editing :D
07:58<@planetmaker>'Monlty' :P
07:59<TrueBrain>I wanted to make sure you made an edit too :)
08:00<@planetmaker>I just talk the r/openttd guys to make a one-way irc2discord bridge from this channel to some of their discord ones ;)
08:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
08:05<Xaroth>or, you know, just use slack/discord.
08:06*LordAro smacks Xaroth
08:06<TrueBrain>I join LordAro i.n the smacking
08:06<Xaroth>I wub you too.
08:19<@peter1138>I should probably have some lunch
08:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>i'm having lunch
08:22<@peter1138>So how is IRC not helping?
08:22<@peter1138>There's quite a lot of people around on IRC during the week...
08:23<@peter1138>discord and the other crap can fuck right off imo
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08:24<@peter1138>TrueBrain, i've been using draft PRs, didn't realise it was new
08:25<@peter1138>Only thing I noticed is you can't see to turn a non-draft PR into a draft PR.
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08:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7232: Change: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings to ships.
08:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7232: Change: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings to ships.
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08:56<@planetmaker>very suspicious :P
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09:01<Wolf01>Shh people are trying to sleep :P
09:07<@planetmaker>'lo :)
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09:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7232: Change: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings to ships.
09:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
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09:27<Pikka>andythenorth, of course not pacers
09:32<andythenorth>I could 4/8 this
09:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
09:52<Wolf01>Isn't variable size catchement area worse than the default one?
09:52<@peter1138>Worse how?
09:53<Wolf01>It seem even bigger on the road stations part
09:53<@peter1138>Oh, well yes, that's the point.
09:53<Wolf01>Even more abuse
09:53<@peter1138>Variable has been in the game forever, normally refered to as modified catchment.
09:54<@peter1138>Only the 3rd option is new in that PR.
09:54<Wolf01>I've *never* noticed it :P
09:54<@peter1138>It's massive in those screenshots due to the airport.
09:54<LordAro>sounds like the sort of thing that should be removed
09:54<@peter1138>So should we just drop it and use the new method?
09:55<@peter1138>Use the new method but do it with fixed sized or variable sized catchment.
09:55<Wolf01>I'm fine with default as default and "realistic"/"work as expected" as an option to not break old saves... but who plays old saves anyway?
09:56<@peter1138>the default is modified catchment, except for really old saves where it'd be fixed.
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>you can have different than "default" for old savegames
09:58<@peter1138>Anyway, it doesn't break old saves, just improves them ;)
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09:59<@peter1138>Also that station highlight needs to be in the game at some point :D
10:00<TrueBrain>planetmaker: any update on Steam btw?
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>now can anyone tell me how i get out of this cave?
10:01<LordAro>dig straight up
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>any turn i make, i drop into a hole that is even deeper than the one i fell down before
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10:03<Wolf01>What are you, lost in minecraft?
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10:04<Wolf01>Ok, got to go, bbl
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10:08<@peter1138>Whose bot is this and is i going to keep pissing me off?
10:08<pnda>It's my bot, and until I have it fixed it will piss you off
10:09<@peter1138>well fuck about with it in another fucking channel
10:10<pnda>what channel do you recommend
10:10<pnda>and sorry
10:10<@peter1138>not this one
10:10<@peter1138>you can make your own for testing
10:10<@peter1138>that's the beauty of irc
10:10<@peter1138>it's not shit
10:14<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, not really so far. I need orudge to register an account which is not a personal one
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10:15<@planetmaker>outside US you can only register personal ones. Otherwise you need some US-legal entity
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10:16<TrueBrain>planetmaker: we already went over that, not? :)
10:16<pnda>peter1138, I'm joining another irc channel. It won't send any messages anymore
10:16<@planetmaker>yep. But... no follow-up from orudge. But I didn't nudge him so far either
10:16<TrueBrain>best to just email orudge; often I just copy/paste the IRC with the context :P
10:17<TrueBrain>he reacts very fast on emails :)
10:17<TrueBrain>pretty sure he doesnt always keep up with IRC :D
10:17<@planetmaker>yeah... but I'm all weekdays currently away from home... so I wouldn't have had time to do anything nor could have given time to talk things through
10:17<@planetmaker>will be better in a week or so
10:17<TrueBrain>no worries; was just wondering how it was going :)
10:18<TrueBrain>would be interesting to publish on Steam :)
10:24<andythenorth>oof HST would need special pax coaches :P
10:24<andythenorth>for $reasons
10:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
10:24<@peter1138>andythenorth, that's what livery overrides are for
10:24<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you should write something about NRT in the above post :P
10:24<andythenorth>speed issues too
10:25<andythenorth>o_O monthly deve posts
10:25<@peter1138>wagons with livery overrides have no wagon speed limit.
10:26<andythenorth>but but but we have plenty of IDs no? :P
10:26<@peter1138>Off, 1.62ms to 38ms in wentbourne save.
10:27<andythenorth>I'll miss the 'zzzz'
10:27<@peter1138>Who'd've thought better catchment would be so bad :p
10:28<Eddi|zuHause><Wolf01> What are you, lost in minecraft? <-- no, in astroneer
10:32<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: i've been looking at that, is it any good?
10:33<@peter1138>I haven't got anywhere in it yet.
10:33<@peter1138>Too busy coding.
10:37<@planetmaker>andythenorth, these dev posts are also for you to edit ;)
10:38<andythenorth>I am about to nap though :P
10:38<@planetmaker>better do it volunatrily
10:42<LordAro>hmm, 3 pages of PRs
10:42<LordAro>peter1138: mild #7003 poke
10:51<@peter1138>Oh I remember, it doesn't use the (Un)ScaleBy stuff...
10:51<Samu>testing my v8
10:52<@peter1138>There's no reason it wouldn't work exactly the same as for gui zoom, just a different var.
10:52<Samu>if I detect no problems till the end of the day, I guess I'm uploading it to bananas
10:53<Samu>boring changelog is also done
10:53<@peter1138>I think it's a conceptual issue. He sees it as zooming in. GUI zoom is treated as zooming out, but we default to zoomed out.
10:54<@peter1138>I think it should either use the same UnScale stuff, or not use ZOOM_LVL_MIN etc
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10:58<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: it's neat, not sure it got any long-term replayability as my creativity in those directions is rather low. also my performance issues probably holding me back here
11:01<LordAro>peter1138: can you write that? :>
11:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size.
11:02<@peter1138>hah, was writing it :p
11:04<Samu>will my spectator patch request be accepted?
11:04<Samu>even if it is, there's still only 14 AIs automatically starting :|
11:08<@peter1138> ** [nielsmh](/nielsmh) ** requested changes [ 2 days ago ]
11:08<@peter1138>Did you?
11:08<Samu>oh, 2 days ago?
11:08<Samu>let me see
11:09<Samu>2 days ago where?
11:10<Samu>nielsmh didn't even talk here
11:10<Samu>it's all glx22
11:12<Samu>ah, my other spectator patch
11:13<Samu>meh, I don't care much about that one
11:14<Samu>was convinced it was a qick fix
11:14<Samu>but since it wasn't, I don't care anymore
11:16<+glx>spectator color is a quick fix, but must be done the right way :)
11:17<@planetmaker>that's... disappointing. Opening many PR. But not caring...?
11:18<Samu>ok, I close
11:20<@planetmaker>the disappointing part in that is the time wasted for no avail...
11:20<@planetmaker>yours. and that of reviewers, too
11:21<Samu>ok, I leave it open
11:22<Samu>i might as well take a look at it
11:22<Samu>it just bores me to edit 50 files again
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11:23<+glx>updating the strings is very easy :)
11:26<Samu>and not spectator
11:26<Samu>but global goals
11:26<Samu>would also require a different string
11:26<Samu>oh gosh :|
11:29<Samu>this isn't displayed in single player
11:29<Samu>there goes the easy fix
11:31<@peter1138>Often, s/easy/wrong/
11:33<+glx>and stories may need another string too
11:34<@peter1138>At least when you are just adding one string you don't need to edit 50 files again :p
11:34<@peter1138>(Or two strings)
11:35<Samu>why does my company has a lock in front of its name?
11:35<+glx>password protected
11:35<Samu>in single player?
11:35<+glx>clean master ?
11:36<Samu>no, on my white-spectator branch
11:36<@peter1138>Lock is after the name.
11:37<Samu>after the name isn't the same as in front of ?
11:37<+glx>in front is before
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11:44<Samu>Global Goals
11:44<Samu>Global Story Book
11:53<Samu>falling back to 3-way merge?
11:53<Samu>lang files are annoying me already
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12:01<@peter1138>So should I get rid of the modified catchment setting?
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12:04<LordAro>peter1138: i'd suggest yes
12:05<J0anJosep>peter1138: I would also suggest yes
12:06<Samu>I don't know how to fix this
12:06<@peter1138>Even for the old "everything is radius 4" vs modified's different radius depending on type?
12:06<Samu>it's a network setting, but it's not
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>is anyone even using that?
12:07<Samu>requires more changes than a simple rename
12:07<+glx>I think you're overthinking again
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>we got rid of the "stations can be only rectangular" setting, right?
12:08<J0anJosep>Today I saw the DEV post of march. Can I be whitelisted as a contributor? In the future I may post some things I do there.
12:09<@planetmaker>J0anJosep, what's your github account?
12:09<Samu>it's encapsulated into a #ifdef ENABLE_NETWORK
12:09<+glx>and ?
12:09<J0anJosep>peter1138: I think the easier to explain how catchment works, the better. So IMO "everything radius 4" may be dropped off.
12:09<J0anJosep>planetmaker: J0anJosep
12:09<+glx>you just need to check the widget
12:10<@planetmaker>ok. And now I have to find where I add people as contributor :)
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: make sure you look in the website project ;)
12:10<J0anJosep>planetmaker: Ask TrueBrain?
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: TrueBrain sent me some kind of invite earlier
12:11<@planetmaker>I found it, I think
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>i got a mail where i had to click on
12:13<@planetmaker>I wonder whether github sends them automatically
12:13<@planetmaker>J0anJosep, can you check with your github account?
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>i assume so
12:13<Samu>i rather fix everything in 1 go on my start_as_spectator patch
12:14<Samu>it's touching the same kind of code
12:15<J0anJosep>planetmaker: Yep. Thanks!
12:16<@planetmaker>np, you're welcom
12:21<Samu>oh wow, it's already fixed on my patch
12:21<Samu>only need new string names
12:22<Samu>it's still using Spectator
12:23<Samu>where in english.txt would I place these strings?
12:23<Samu>Global Goals
12:23<Samu>Global Story Book
12:26<@peter1138>Near other strings that mention them.
12:26<+glx>in my quick test I put them line 2089
12:27<@peter1138>Ok, my idea of storing nearby stations within industry and towns improves performance A LOT.
12:28<@peter1138>In fact it improves it so much, it's faster than unpatched.
12:28<Samu>caps because I was writing a string name
12:29<@planetmaker>seems we're caching more and more info :)
12:32<@peter1138>38ms down to 1ms *per tick* is worth it.
12:32<+glx>not a bad improvement
12:32<@peter1138>I just need to ensure the nearby list is kept update to date.
12:32<@peter1138>glx, that's faster than master :)
12:33<andythenorth>will it work with the (otherwise unrelated) round-robin cargo to industries?
12:37<@peter1138>Should not affect it.
12:37<@peter1138>Might make that simpler though.
12:38<@peter1138>What other tile classes produce cargo? Industry & houses.
12:38<@peter1138>I think objects may do as well.
12:38<+glx>something like that
12:38<+glx>only checked compilation, not started
12:39<@peter1138>Are newobjects used much? It's not something I ever use.
12:40<@Alberth>nostky the entire screenshot forum
12:40<@peter1138>It's only the HQ.
12:40<@peter1138>Okay, there can only be 15 of those on the map.
12:40<@peter1138>I suspect it's not worth bothering with.
12:40<Samu>glx, but you have it inside network code
12:40<+glx>and ?
12:40<Samu>it won't be displayed in single player
12:41<+glx>of course it won't
12:41<Samu>why not?
12:41<@peter1138>Yeah, normal objects don't create/consume cargo, only the HQ. Phew.
12:41<+glx>was it displayed before ?
12:41<Samu>no, but should b
12:41<+glx>that's easily fixable
12:42<Samu>eh... those ifdef network don't make it so easy
12:42<@peter1138>Hmm, before saying it's faster, I should check it even works, lol
12:54<andythenorth>is it set in stone that industries build around N tile?
12:54<@peter1138>What does that mean?
12:54<andythenorth>some types would be much easier to player build if the start tile was arbitrary
12:54<andythenorth>ports, for example, are a PITA
12:56<andythenorth>industry can only be placed using the tile at (0,0) in the layout
12:56<@peter1138>Okay, it's not quite faster than before, but still < 2ms
12:56<@peter1138>I messed up and nothing got a nearby tile :p
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13:00<@Alberth>andythenorth: should be possible to assume a tile you clicked is any tile in the industry, ie try them all
13:01<andythenorth>I wondered
13:01<andythenorth>dunno about performance of that
13:01<@Alberth>not sure if that needs refindement, eg "near" the middle or so
13:04<@Alberth>near the north would be most compatible, but that's somewhat still horrible
13:05<andythenorth>maybe a random walk of all tiles in the layout?
13:05<andythenorth>or a circular search?
13:06<@Alberth>repeatable is likely better, so eg a picture works
13:07<+glx>Samu: updated
13:07<@Alberth>my intuituiton says circularly from the center
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13:08<@peter1138>Funny how the setting is "Allow more realistically sized..."
13:08<@peter1138>"Allow"... wtf
13:08<@Alberth>but breaks all "build at this tile" pictures
13:09<+glx>string names may not be the best
13:09<+glx>but they match the existing ones
13:10<@peter1138>Right, I tweaked this non-rect stuff so that it's always enabled.
13:10<@peter1138>And modified_catchment is not touched, it affects catchment as you'd expect.
13:10<@peter1138>World ticks still fine :D
13:12<@peter1138>Yeah, so that FOR_ALL_STATIONS was the killer, not the unordered_set
13:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator
13:15<@peter1138>Samu, pretty sure that last commit should be a separate PR. It affects master, doesn't it?
13:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick closed pull request #7169: Fix: Spectator color
13:18<@peter1138>That one you just closed lol
13:18<Samu>I fixed in the other
13:18<@peter1138>But you've put separate things in 1 PR again.
13:18<Samu>besides, if it's to be removed, it's pointless to have it open
13:19<+glx>I think I'll just PR then
13:19<Samu>meh, i never understand how you guys work
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13:19<@peter1138>You already had a PR open to fix the issue.
13:20<@peter1138>But you went and fixed it in an unrelated PR.
13:20<@peter1138>What do you not understand about that?
13:20<Wolf01><Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> What are you, lost in minecraft? <-- no, in astroneer <- then follow the oxygen line :P
13:20<Samu>I ended up removing the string
13:20<@peter1138>Yes, so?
13:20<Samu>there was no point leaving it open anymore
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13:21<Samu>just use the other pr
13:21<Samu>it does the job
13:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7236: Fix: company dropdown using wrong colours, and add global goals and story book to single player
13:21<@peter1138>But that other PR includes stuff about starting as spectator.
13:21<@peter1138>That's a lot of changes to review when we simply wanted a text change for now.
13:21<@peter1138>This is the point of 1 (logical) change per PR.
13:22<@peter1138>glx, thanks
13:22<Samu>it would end up requiring the removal of the string... I don't get it
13:22<Samu>just seems pointless to have 2 PR's doing the same thing
13:23<@peter1138>The PR you put it in doesn't need to contain it!
13:24<+glx>even if you notice wrong stuff while doing a PR doesn't mean you should fix it in the PR
13:25<+glx>and btw there was other incorrect strings, as nielsm pointed out in the other PR
13:25<Samu>those are special ones
13:25<Samu>but ok
13:26<+glx>I don't see how they are special
13:26<+glx>they are just shown in network games but should match the other strings in dropdown
13:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7236: Fix: company dropdown using wrong colours, and add global goals and story book to single player
13:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick reopened pull request #7169: Fix: Spectator color
13:30<@peter1138>I think it's kinda moot now.
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13:31<Samu>lucky that github fake deletes stuff
13:31<@peter1138>Close doesn't even mean delete.
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13:32<Samu>i deleted branch
13:32<@peter1138>Ah, ok.
13:32<+glx>and reopening it was not needed
13:32<Samu>but it's just fake
13:32<pnda>Uhh. sorry for those messages from my DiscordIRC bot. It's working now, had a minor crash. Won't happen again
13:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #7237: Small codechanges (remove an assert and unify addition/removal of station tiles)
13:35<Samu>well, glx is at it, apparently
13:35<+glx>yes it was really easy
13:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick closed pull request #7169: Fix: Spectator color
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13:36<+glx>with the power of regexp :)
13:36<Samu>probably gonna conflict with my pr
13:36<Samu>awaiting merge
13:37<+glx>even if MSVC forced me to use \r?\n instead of $
13:39<+glx>(once merged it will add another bunch of warnings ;) )
13:41<+glx>hmm or maybe not as there are definitive string removal
13:46<+glx>J0anJosep: should have been 2 PRs I think
13:46<+glx>because both commits are totally unrelated
13:47<pnda>So most of you have probably noticed my "DiscordIRC" Bot. It's currently just sending all messages sent here onto a discord server. My question is to make this 2-way, so messages from the discord server also come to here.
13:48<pnda>Is that allowed?
13:49<@peter1138>Personally I would ban the fuck out of it.
13:49<+glx>if people want to follow the discussion they should just come to IRC
13:50<pnda>And how many people still use IRC, and how many people use Discord?
13:50<+glx>discord is using IRC internally ;)
13:51<+glx>and special servers
13:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
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13:51<@peter1138>Well, there's about 100 people here.
13:51<+glx>but many people are still using IRC
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13:51<@peter1138>And I have no idea about discord because I have no intention of ever using it.
13:52<pnda>You don't. And as you said you won't. Therefore you could still continue using IRC, and still be connected to people on another platform
13:52<+glx>even for twitch I sometimes use IRC for the chat
13:53<pnda>And if I remember correctly it's nearly 1600 people on the openttd discord
13:53<@peter1138>There's no need to be connected to people on another platform.
13:53<pnda>Why would that be?
13:53<@peter1138>Why would I want to follow the random conversations of 1600 people?
13:53<@peter1138>It's hard enough following Samu.
13:54<pnda>I followed the conversation of you guys the last few minutes. And also on the openttd discord, it's not that active, so it wouldn't change that much.
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13:54<pnda>Oh and I also want to mention that this was planetmakers idea
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13:54<@peter1138>We also have tt-forums for our message boards.
13:54<@peter1138>Reddit can piss off.
13:54<TrueBrain>I guess peter1138 is having an off day; a bit less rude won't hurt anyone
13:55<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I hope I understood your comment :D I did guess a bit to what context you were looking for :)
13:55<@peter1138>I just hate this pervasive LETS ALL USE THIS PROPRIETORY REINVENTING THE WHEEL SHIT
13:55<@peter1138>oops, caps :(
13:55<TrueBrain>just because YOU hate something, doesn't mean you have to take it out on those that DO like it :)
13:55<TrueBrain>be civil :)
13:55<@peter1138>I'm not?
13:56<pnda>And just like on the OpenTTD Discord, the voting if the bot is actually coming or not, is still being voted
13:56<pnda>Because democracy > one guys opinion
13:56<TrueBrain>the bots, are coming .. hmm .. now I have 30 seconds of mars in my head .. tnx :P
13:57<@peter1138>Yeah, that worked out well for the UK.
13:57<@peter1138>lol brexit lol
13:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7237: Small codechanges (remove an assert and unify addition/removal of station tiles)
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13:57<TrueBrain>ugh, don't start about Brexit :(
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13:58<pnda>Brexit is just stupid. And it's stupid how a lot of people didn't even vote
13:58<m3henry>This is a family friendly channel
13:58<TrueBrain>lol @ m3henry :)
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13:59<LordAro>now that should definitely be bannable
13:59<pnda>I'm sure planetmaker will allow the 2-way discord-irc system of my bot. Just don't know about the other admins here
13:59<@peter1138>1-way is probably fine.
14:00<@peter1138>But 2-way will be muted.
14:00<LordAro>in my experience of bridge-bots, they tend to generate a lot of noise
14:00<@peter1138>Very noisy.
14:00<LordAro>and if they don't, they're probably not worth having
14:01<@peter1138>Hope nobody is planning on flying with FlyBMI.
14:01<m3henry>Obvious answer: Make OTTD an IRC client itself! xD
14:01<@peter1138>OTTD has a chat system.
14:01<pnda>That might be the case. Though from what I see on a daily basis there is not much activity on the discord. And I wouldn't even add the help, bot-spam, multiplayer and off-topic channels to the bot, so most messages wouldn't land here.
14:01<m3henry>But is it IRC?
14:01<@peter1138>And some servers even link it in their IRC channels.
14:01<@peter1138>But they wouldn't link it in here, because that'd be dumb.
14:02<pnda>There was a discord bot which connected the OpenTTD chat system with discord.
14:02<m3henry>Come to think of it
14:02<m3henry>What fundamental differences are there between OTTD's chat system and IRC?
14:02<@peter1138>openttdcoop was all IRC linked.
14:02<@peter1138>m3henry, fundamentally it's totally different.
14:03<@peter1138>Of course, they still let you chat.
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14:04<m3henry>Not the protocol, but the use-case?
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14:09<milek7>bridge bots poorly integrate with irc
14:09<milek7>wrong sender nicks, independent kick/ban system
14:10<pnda>Though from the last hour of testing this bridge bot on this channel there has been no problems at all.
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14:13<LordAro>pnda: see, that's very noisy to me - why on earth would discord users care about the join/parts of users they can't interact with?
14:14<pnda>They could interact with them, if there is a 2-way system
14:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #59: Fix: mark openttd-useful as deprecated, and tell what to do instead
14:18<Samu>gonna test 7204 done differently
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14:21<milek7>pnda: and it looks bad
14:21<milek7>why everything is under "DiscordIRC bot" and not under real usernames?
14:21<J0anJosep>glx: I'll make two separate PRs.
14:21<TrueBrain>Discord no longer allows that, as people were abusing it :D
14:21<TrueBrain>it was fun when that was possible :)
14:21<pnda>you'd have to create a bot for every single user.
14:22<LordAro>you can do that with slack, oddly
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14:22<supermop_Home>ottd slack time?
14:22<TrueBrain>guess you can register a new bot for every new user that pops up :)
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14:22<TrueBrain>OpenTTD has a Slack. Just I am all alone in there :P
14:22<TrueBrain>SO RONELY
14:22<supermop_Home>ooh ill join
14:22<TrueBrain>yippie, I have friends!
14:22<TrueBrain>wait .. where is my Slack client ..
14:23<pnda>@TrueBrain, that sadly doesn't work. You have a maximum of 50 bots per user (I am already using 4) and also there is no automation for doing it.
14:23<TrueBrain>I know :(
14:23<Samu>failed loading savegame: Order index 64000 out of range (64000)
14:23<TrueBrain>they really went ballistic on people trying to do that :P
14:23<pnda>I thought that what Samu just posted was a console error in my
14:24<Samu>savegame is not backwards compatible?
14:24<supermop_Home>TrueBrain whats the slack for openttd
14:24<TrueBrain>surprising :P
14:24<LordAro>supermop_Home: don't encourage him
14:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: it is already done! (well, it has been for months)
14:24<pnda>are you really so bound to IRC?
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14:25<supermop_Home>LordAro i already am the slack evangelist at my current and two prior jobs
14:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7237: Small codechanges (remove an assert and unify addition/removal of station tiles)
14:25<TrueBrain>supermop_Home: I just claimed it as placeholder ;)
14:25<TrueBrain>milek7: the only correct answer, indeed :)
14:25<TrueBrain>which reminds me, read again today that someone BOUGHT OpenTTD on Windows Store
14:25<TrueBrain>that 2 euro variant still pops up on top
14:26<TrueBrain>annoys the freak out of me
14:26<TrueBrain>it is also on there for free .. but .. it is not the first hit
14:26<LordAro>milek7: pretty much me, yes
14:26<TrueBrain>can we downvote it or something?
14:26<LordAro>i like being able to use the same connection on every single system i use
14:26<LordAro>i.e. all i need is an ssh client
14:27<LordAro>and i don't need to download some bloated PoS electron thing
14:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7237: Codechange: Move some common code after adding/removing tiles to a station to its own function.
14:29<Samu>your variant is bugged
14:29<Samu>there is coal going to fishing grounds station
14:29<TrueBrain>why is that a bug?
14:30<LordAro>use your words, Samu
14:30<LordAro>our crystal balls are all broken
14:30<supermop_Home>slack is generally good for architecture / design firms where sharing and commenting on drawings is easy and most people are probably too afraid to use something like irc
14:30<Samu>it should not serve the other idnustries
14:30<Samu>only self
14:30<TrueBrain>LordAro: Welcome to the guessing game! Today, we have ... :D
14:31<Samu>sorry, talking about
14:31<TrueBrain>context! Whoho!
14:32<Samu>oops, i thought I had uploaded a savegame on my topic
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14:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7204: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations.
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14:37<Samu>why is it a broken savegame on peter1138 variant?
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14:38<TrueBrain>invasion? :D
14:38<milek7>openttd is available as UWP?
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14:38<TrueBrain>milek7: I believe it is not, but orudge knows details :)
14:39<milek7>so store now allows win32 apps?
14:39<pnda>It is available in the windows store. But I don't think it's UWP
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14:40<Wolf01>It's bridged, win32 on a wrapper just to be distributed via store
14:40<pnda>wait why is there a DiscordIRC4 which joined..uhhh
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14:40<LordAro>pnda: the part/join noise is starting to get annoying...
14:41<pnda>Well sorry....Don't know what just happened
14:41<TrueBrain>LordAro: more or less than for example thedarkb-T60 doing this all day? :)
14:41<pnda>yeah ^
14:41<LordAro>but that's not 5 users all at once
14:41<TrueBrain>we all make mistakes while creating bots :)
14:41<TrueBrain>it is not like DorpsGek_II never had that issue :D
14:41<pnda>Though I do not understand why it created 5
14:41<LordAro>as peter said earlier, bot testing should be done elsewhere
14:42<pnda>I did
14:42<pnda>I created a room, and it joined and left like 100 times
14:42<LordAro>good :)
14:42<pnda>And the testing is not done currently. I just pushed something for a few new listeners, don't know why that happened
14:43<TrueBrain>threads being threads? :)
14:43<pnda>Oh I am stupid....I moved the bot creating thing under the function when a message is sent here.....stupid me
14:44<TrueBrain>haha, that is a nice DoS :D
14:44<Wolf01>Nice :P
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14:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #7238: Codechange: Remove assert when trying to intersect two tile areas and…
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14:58<TrueBrain>LordAro: any chance you can look at this: ?
15:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #59: Fix: mark openttd-useful as deprecated, and tell what to do instead
15:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #59: Fix: mark openttd-useful as deprecated, and tell what to do instead
15:00<TrueBrain>tnx :)
15:00<LordAro>yes :)
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15:09<Samu>I don't understand this link
15:10<@DorpsGek>I thnk add ssues too
15:11<+glx>oh nice my script eats letters
15:11<@peter1138>Back from dinnering.
15:13<@peter1138>Shall I bother trying to decipher what Samu said?
15:14<Samu>you have coal waiting on fishing ground station
15:15<@peter1138>I can't open your savegame.
15:15<Samu>works only for mine
15:16<@peter1138>Ok, so the screenshots are for yours too?
15:16<+glx>how can you be sure it's not something in your changes then ?
15:16<Samu>type set selectgoods off
15:16<Samu>cargo will appear on the stations without the need of vehicels
15:17<Samu>if it is allowed to appear, that is
15:17<+glx>ah that's a useful detail :)
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15:21<Samu> this is on peter1138 variant
15:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #7239: Codechange: Put some order on VehicleEnter_Track in rail_cmd.
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15:49<@peter1138>Ok, will be fixed soon.
15:51<@peter1138>Ok, tested with HQ as well.
15:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7239: Codechange: Put some order on VehicleEnter_Track in rail_cmd.
15:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #7239: Codechange: Put some order on VehicleEnter_Track in rail_cmd.
15:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations.
15:53<@peter1138>Thanks Samu.
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15:54<@planetmaker>hm, it didn't use my change of commit message
15:55<@planetmaker>or did it?
15:55<@planetmaker>I'm confused :D
15:55<TrueBrain>guess you fell for the: PR title != commit message? :D
15:55<TrueBrain>(as I did a few times already)
15:56<@peter1138>You need to do Squash & Merge to set the commit message.
15:56<@peter1138>Though... looks like you did that.
15:57<@planetmaker>yeah... difference PR title to commit message
15:57<@planetmaker>ok :)
15:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7230: Fix #7226: No ship track due to "forbid 90 deg turns"-> Do not call pathfinders.
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15:58<@peter1138>#7234 is now officially bug free... (right until the next bug is found)
16:03*peter1138 awaits the next cryptic message from Samu.
16:05<@peter1138>Weird, my custom git pr command stopped working :/
16:06<J0anJosep>planetmaker: Sorry for the commit message issue. On master, it is reworded the way you wanted.
16:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7236: Fix: company dropdown using wrong colours, and add global goals and story book to single player
16:11<@peter1138>Hrmm, right, so. nearby station list is correct when station is modified.
16:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
16:11<@peter1138>Need to handle industry creation. Removal doesn't matter.
16:12<@peter1138>And then town growth/shrinkage.
16:12<@peter1138>Ooh, magic hotkey :D
16:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
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16:17<@peter1138>Ah, new industry already calls the appropriate stuff.
16:17<@peter1138>So just town growth.
16:17<@planetmaker>J0anJosep, no need to apologize. It's fine... more me wondering how github works. And ... it was really just a tiny preference in words on my part, nothing to worry about either way :)
16:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
16:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
16:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7236: Fix: company dropdown using wrong colours, and add global goals and story book to single player
16:19<pnda>What's going on with the website? A lot of people are reporting they can't access it
16:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
16:20<LordAro>pnda: going to need a bit more than "can't access it"
16:20<LordAro>works for me
16:20<+glx>fails for me
16:20<Samu>it works!
16:20<+glx>secured connection failure
16:21<Samu>7234 works! now
16:21<LordAro>glx: as in, https, or..?
16:21<@peter1138>Samu, thanks for your, er... report.
16:21<@peter1138>Yeah, website is not working :/
16:21<+glx>https fails yes
16:21<@peter1138>TLS fails.
16:21<milek7>works for me
16:21<+glx>and IPv6 here
16:22<pnda>It works for me. Just a guy turned up on discord and was like "I can't connect"
16:22<@peter1138>Yeah, IPv4 works.
16:22<@peter1138>IPv6 does not.
16:22<+glx>ok TrueBrain IPv6 is broken on website
16:23<LordAro>curl: (35) Unknown SSL protocol error in connection to
16:25<+glx>oh github added a dangerous option near delete branch after merged PR
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16:29<@peter1138>Or something else.
16:29<+glx>delete fork
16:29<@peter1138>Oh! o_O
16:31<LordAro>as best as i can tell, ipv6 isn't offering any (valid?) TLS ciphers
16:31<+glx>but it worked
16:31<+glx>we even checked it
16:31<LordAro>mm, something's changed
16:31<LordAro>might be digitalocean has broken something
16:31<@peter1138>Probably means connected to a loadbalancer but the loadbalancer can't connect to a backend.
16:32<+glx>I think there was a proxy for IPv6
16:32<LordAro>yeah, because digitalocean doesn't support it properly, or something
16:33<LordAro>i'm not sure if TB released any of that bit
16:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
16:34<@planetmaker>there is an ipv6 repo in our OpenTTD github repos
16:34<@planetmaker>which basically is the proxy for ipv6
16:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
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16:35<@peter1138>Hmm, two churches, or is it two villages next to each other...
16:36<@peter1138>Oh... three churches!
16:37<TrueBrain>glx: that would explain the issues I have been reading all day, which I could not pinpoint
16:37<TrueBrain>owh, I know what happened .. hmm ..
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>music anyone?
16:40<milek7>anyway, i thought that browsers were using 'happy eyeballs' hack
16:41<milek7>connecting to both v4 and v6, so nobody sees that v6 is broken
16:42<+glx>no, they usually try IPv6 and fallback to IPv4 if no replies
16:42<@peter1138>Probably not in the case of a successful tcp connection but failed higher level.
16:42<+glx>but we got reply
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>won't that put more stress on the server side, if multiple servers get the same request and don't know it has already been established elsewhere?
16:44<TrueBrain>glx: how about now?
16:44<+glx>works now
16:44<+glx>and IPv6 :)
16:45<TrueBrain>DO cycles the nodes for a k8s fix
16:45<TrueBrain>which is fine
16:45<TrueBrain>but the nodes got a new internal IP
16:45<TrueBrain>so the IPv6 bypass I have and use no longer worked
16:45<TrueBrain>that is a bit annoying
16:45<TrueBrain>but okay
16:45<@planetmaker>would people mind much, if we bridge this IRC channel to the development channel on discord?
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>is that a transparent bridge, or some bot that just repeats everything?
16:46<@planetmaker>I guess the latter. Posting here what was said there. And vice versa
16:46<@planetmaker>I don't see another way
16:47<@planetmaker>as we don't own the IRC server
16:47<@peter1138>It would be piss me right off.
16:47<@planetmaker>but... why?
16:48<@planetmaker>mostly the other channel is silent. And makes it for some people easier to reach us
16:48<@peter1138>Prefered way for people to reach us is github.
16:48<@planetmaker>so why are we here?
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16:50<m3henry>Discussion is not necessarily the same as contact
16:50<@peter1138>This is just us chatting, as we've done for 15 years.
16:51<@planetmaker>and nothing would change
16:51<@peter1138>What needs to change?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>this channel has been weirdly on-topic lately
16:51<@peter1138>The github migration seems to have paid off, we're way more active now.
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16:52<m3henry>Submitting patches was awkward
16:52<LordAro>i have no inherent problems with bridging a quiet discord channel with here
16:52<LordAro>i think it's silly, but if you think it will help things, by all means try it
16:53<Wolf01>Yes, people which make patches can't blame devs anymore like "they are the only ones which can use SVN repo hurr durr"
16:53<@planetmaker>it's worth a try, is what I think at least
16:53<LordAro>but if the other side gets busy, i think my opinion will turn against it :)
16:53<@peter1138>Just tell them to come here.
16:53<+glx>and if it introduce flood we can ban the bot :)
16:53<m3henry>option to mute it?
16:53<@peter1138>IRC is not haRd.
16:54<LordAro>peter1138: you and i know this, but apparently people like having persistence
16:54<LordAro>(with no setup on their part)
16:55<@peter1138>Persistence is precisely why stuff which needs it should be done on github.
16:55<LordAro>for dev work, for sure
16:55<LordAro>but specifically for their chat programs
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>i've never heard anyone say they use discord because it has persistence
16:56<@peter1138>Anyway, we have persistence with whatever irc logging bots are spying on this channel.
16:57<@peter1138>mikegrb, *waves*
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16:57<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure that one died
16:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7230: Fix #7226: No ship track due to "forbid 90 deg turns"-> Do not call pathfinders.
16:57<@peter1138>^ looks pretty alive to me.
16:59<@planetmaker>sp comp's logs. iirc
16:59<pnda>My bot is now running on a "server". Will stay online for quite a while. :D
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>ok, maybe there was an episode inbetween...
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17:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
17:06<@peter1138>Is m3henry's clock wrong? :D
17:07<@peter1138>" M3Henry committed on Sep 25, 2018 "
17:07<m3henry>Oh I see
17:07<m3henry>That is correct
17:07<@peter1138>Are you amending commits, or just taking ages to push? :p
17:08<m3henry>I found some time recently to go over the commits that I'd started a few months ago
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17:36<+glx>oh even linux build failed this time m3henry
17:38<Samu>how come opf doesn't ignore 90 degs?
17:39<@peter1138>What do you mean?
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17:40<@peter1138>Because the change means it is checked regardless of the pathfinder.
17:43<+glx>m3henry: but this time linux and osx fails at the same place, while win32/win64 fails in a platform specific file
17:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #6986: Allow the center tile to always get a house when playing with 3x3/Better
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17:47<+glx>hmm should "waiting on author" considered "stale" ?
17:49<+glx>because the bot added the stale label
17:50<+glx>at least the author will get a notification
17:51<LordAro>hmm. i don't think "waiting on author" necessarily implies "stale" - it might only get applied for a few hours or something
17:51<Samu>but opf is now pathfinding wrong
17:51<LordAro>Samu: sounds like another reason to dump OPF
17:51<Samu>not the right way to fix it
17:52<Samu>it is assuming internally that it can do 90 deg turns
17:52<+glx>removing it will fix it ;)
17:52<Samu>hmm ok remove
17:53<LordAro>Samu: that's because OPF (being the original one) predates the no 90 degree turn settings
17:53<LordAro>no one ever thought it worthwhile to update it to do otherwise
17:53<LordAro>and i agree
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17:53<LordAro>frankly i don't see much of a reason to keep NPF either
17:54<LordAro>pathfinders *should* only differ in efficency
17:54<LordAro>they're either correct or not, and there's no reason to use anything other than the "best" one (fastest, whatever)
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>i believe the original reason to keep NPF around was in case some odd behaviour in YAPF was detected to have a fallback to compare it to
17:58<@peter1138>PR: Remove OPF.
17:58<@peter1138>PR: Remove NPF.
17:59<+glx>and keep only the unreadable PF ?
17:59<@peter1138>I can read it.
17:59<@peter1138>PR: Using OpenTTD-style code in YAPF.
18:00<@peter1138>LordAro, not even joking :-)
18:00<LordAro>but maybe review/merge some existing PRs first pls
18:02<@peter1138>glx, it starts to make sense eventually :)
18:03<+glx>maybe we could close #7204 as #7234 does it in a better way
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>there's some very deep logic in it
18:03<@peter1138>Not that much logic.
18:03<+glx>too much templates for me
18:03<@peter1138>It's just a maze of templates not helped by the strange naming conventions.
18:07<@peter1138>glx, I think that's the plan.
18:08<+glx>Samu: can you rebase #7158 and remove the useless commit ?
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18:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
18:13<Samu>7158 let me see
18:14<+glx>well remove the commit first
18:15<+glx>but you'll still have conflicts in toolbar_gui.cpp without this commit
18:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages.
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18:21<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess I should squash #7234 now.
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18:30<pnda>What's wrong with this "Thedarkb-T60" guy
18:31<+glx>his connection :)
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18:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7232: Change: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings to ships.
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18:38<FLHerne>LordAro: I think OPF might be worth keeping simply as documentation...
18:38<@peter1138>Documentation of what?
18:38<FLHerne>It might not be very good, but it's obvious how it works
18:38<FLHerne>Whereas YAPF is just unreadable
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18:39<FLHerne>Of how the pathfinder API works, which it should be using, etc.
18:39<FLHerne>*which data
18:39<@peter1138>No, there is no API for that.
18:40<@peter1138>It's literally a switch () block for each vehicle type.
18:40<+glx>and a heavily templated A* algorithm :)
18:46<Samu>ok now i got time
18:46<Samu>i see glx stuff got merged
18:46<+glx>yes that's why I suggest you remove your last commit before trying to rebase
18:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7238: Codechange: Remove assert when trying to intersect two tile areas and…
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18:47<+glx>rebase -i ^HEAD then drop the commit
18:48<+glx>but you will still have conflicts to solve
18:48<+glx>as I touched the toolbar_gui.cpp part
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18:53<Samu>wow, so complicated now
18:53<Samu>have to see how it behaves
18:53<+glx>I think it's simpler now
18:57<Samu>have to drop last commit
18:57<Samu>then see what happens
18:58<@peter1138>Sometimes I wonder if this is a write-only medium.
19:00<Samu>how come I don't get conflicts now?
19:00<Samu>something wrong happened...
19:00<+glx>luck happened :)
19:01<+glx>but you should be able to move some stuff into the switch
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19:02<+glx>more likely the conflict would be present if you had not removed the commit ;)
19:03<+glx>anyway even without conflict compilation will fail
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19:05<Samu>include_spectator no longer exists?
19:05<+glx>yes not needed
19:06<m3henry>glx: Oh that one surprised me. I was expecting iter to be an iterator, not an offset xD
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19:09<+glx>you can move the #ifdef after the if (!_networking) line and insert your code there
19:09<+glx>but don't forget to break at the end
19:10<Samu> * @param include_spectator If true, a spectator option is included in the list.
19:10<Samu>you left the comment
19:11<+glx>and I'm the first to notice that in peter1138's PR
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19:13<@peter1138>That just means my review was bad :/
19:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
19:16<@peter1138>This is bad, I'm considering using a file-scope static variable to remember the building flags used when building a house :/
19:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7241: Fix 1585eb1a3: forgot a comment
19:20<+glx>like a local global variable ?
19:20<+glx>that doesn't sound good
19:21<+glx>but it's done like that in other places
19:23<Samu>something's quite not right
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19:23<Samu>even when nothing is highlighted, it still opens the global goals window or global story book window
19:24<+glx>it defaults to -1 yes
19:24<+glx>unless you are a company, it then defaults to the company
19:25<Samu>but the black rectangle
19:25<Samu>is not selecting it
19:25<+glx>same happens in network games
19:25<+glx>still it will open client list
19:28<+glx>hmm btw selection was probably already wrong for network games
19:30<Samu>PopupMainToolbMenu(w, widget, list, _local_company == COMPANY_SPECTATOR ? widget == WID_TN_COMPANIES ? CTMN_CLIENT_LIST : CTMN_SPECTATOR : (int)_local_company);
19:30<Samu>gonna try
19:31<+glx>result will be the same CTMN_SPECTATOR is -4 :)
19:32<Samu>it works
19:33<Samu>CTMN_SPECTATOR is being used for Global Story Book and Global Goals
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19:35<+glx>oh right, something to add to the comment fix then
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19:36<Samu>for my patch, there is no client list in single player, nothing is open anyway, lucky me
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19:37<Samu>CTMN_CLIENT_LIST is "selected" though
19:37<Samu>not visible
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19:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator
19:46<snail_UES_>what should we set as a steamer’s power in our trainsets?
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19:46<drac_boy>hi there
19:46<snail_UES_>“continuous” power or power at drawbar?
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19:47*drac_boy wouldn't be sure sorry
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19:49<Samu>I think I have the endif in the wrong plac
19:49<+glx>why did you add the _networking test ?
19:50<+glx>there's already !_networking test above it
19:50<Samu>i dont know
19:51<Samu>ifdef network confuses the heck of it
19:51<+glx>and yes #endif is wrong with your change
19:52<+glx>but it's a useless change
19:54<Samu>ah. the break prevents the second part of the code from happening
19:54<Samu>i see
19:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7241: Fix 1585eb1a3: forgot a comment
19:57<Pikka>snail_UES_, probably not.
19:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator
19:57<snail_UES_>Pikka: what do you mean?
19:57<Pikka>probably not "continuous power" or power at drawbar. :)
19:59<+glx>still wrong Samu, the break must be afte #endif
19:59<Pikka>probably whatever value gives a pleasing gameplay effect and slots it into whatever use you're aiming for
19:59<Samu>it is after
20:00<snail_UES_>sure, but that’s more about fine tuning
20:00<snail_UES_>we should have a realistic base to start from
20:00<+glx>just in case, because _networking is false if ENABLE_NETWORK is not defined but it still safer to prevent fall through the next case
20:01<+glx>no you moved it
20:02<Pikka>sure, but I'm not sure either of those values make sense as TTD "power", and those stats are often hard to find for steam engines anyway. So skip the research and just make it up, imo ;)
20:02<Samu>the break was before
20:02<+glx>the diff says it was not
20:02<Samu>erm... confused
20:04<snail_UES_>yeah… well, you can estimate them by using boiler pressure, grate area, superheater surface...
20:04<drac_boy>pikka not exactly that hard tho .. theres a well-reused formula on the forum for to determine a good tractive for steam :)
20:04<snail_UES_>tractive effort is easier
20:05<snail_UES_>there is a formula involving cylinder dimensions, boiler pressure, and driving wheel diameter
20:05<snail_UES_>power is trickier to estimate
20:05<Samu>so that means my company_gui.cpp is also wrong?
20:06<drac_boy>mind you in usa they had this ratio system where if it added up to or close to 4.0 (or was it quoted at 3.0 .. ughh I'll have to find a source to recheck) it was balanced .. but well below or above that it became more difficult (either very slippery or too much boiler output than what can be used)
20:06<Samu>I don't understand this whole ENABLE_NETWORK thing, i dont even know how to test it
20:07<Samu>if there is no ENABLE_NETWORK
20:07<Samu>_networking doesn't exist?
20:07<drac_boy>even a reboilered 4-4-2 once (it was on the IC system) had a very low number to the point that it was often shunt into the rear of the yard and left to rot as very few dispatchers ever wanted to put it on rooster
20:08<Samu>the variable
20:08<+glx>_networking is defined to 0 in this case
20:08<drac_boy>it was just way too slippery even for a short passenger train
20:08<+glx>and your company_gui.cpp is correct
20:08<snail_UES_>yep, but again, that’s tractive effort
20:09<snail_UES_>power is proportional to the capacity of generating steam quickly and sending it to the cylinders without too much loss
20:09<+glx>you can mentally check the #ifdef #endif bloc like a comment block
20:09<drac_boy>snail..if the boiler had a lower pressure it would had still been the same locomotive tho :)
20:09<snail_UES_>problem is, you get data for continuous power for certain engines, power at drawbar for others (at different speeds)
20:09<+glx>#ifdef being /* and #endif is */
20:10<snail_UES_>yes, same locomotive, but weaker
20:11<drac_boy>come to think about it I do have two grfs that I've unofficially modified because the author for some reason left some things broken by default (eg a railcar that barely could make 30kph with one wagon which didn't compare to the real life one) .. but what do I know :)
20:12<+glx>checking with the compiler implies to edit the project files, and you don't wan't to do that :)
20:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator
20:12<snail_UES_>if you’re referring to my set :p that’s because that railcar was almost always used by itself
20:13<drac_boy>I was talking about australia and europe but :P
20:13<drac_boy>which of whats the trainset you're working on?
20:13<snail_UES_>haha, well there is a railcar in the NG French set that kind of fits your description
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20:14<snail_UES_>designed in the twenties, so one of the very first attempts at building a feasible diesel engine (on narrow gauge)
20:14<drac_boy>oh are you the Snail with an old fiat car as forum avatar?
20:14<snail_UES_>its power follows the real-life model, so it will reach full speed if it travels alone
20:15<snail_UES_>haha yes
20:15<snail_UES_>the “snail” nick here was already taken…
20:15<drac_boy>didn't think that was you till now .. I've looked over that thread twice anyway :)
20:15<snail_UES_>so I added my location :D
20:16<drac_boy>and btw although I don't know of any grf of this yet I do know a bit about the 'family' of railcars in australia tho (doesn't help I have one semi-technical book on one of them here too heh)
20:17<drac_boy>various back n forth between oversea and homemade solutions .. not surprisingly the budd railcar was a bit less than impressive but still worked service for a while nevertheless .. and of course the well proven (repowering logics aside) Comet sets
20:18<drac_boy>nothing too odd about actually seeing an old road-based railcar with one mini coach trailer standing (and being dwarfed) next to an australia xpt trainset heh :)
20:18<drac_boy>(talk about stopping a highspeed train to transfer a few passengers from a slowpokey railcar)
20:19<drac_boy>snail anyway don't mind me ;)
20:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
20:23<drac_boy>snail mind if I ask roughly how many locomotives there are in that grf now?
20:24<snail_UES_>in the NG set?
20:24<snail_UES_>about 30 locomotives (among steam, diesel and electric)
20:25<snail_UES_>and about as many railcars, DMUs, and EMUs
20:25<drac_boy>ah ok..sounds like I'll probably want to try it eventually (unless something else in the grf causes no-load error) .. but thats for another topic :)
20:25<snail_UES_>but there is also a parameter to reduce all that crap to 10 locos and like 6 railcars :D
20:26<snail_UES_>I’m working on the standard gauge now, still in planning phase
20:32<drac_boy>standard? hope that included the french 131R (and maybe the army counterpart of it although I still dunno how much french people liked them tho) :)
20:33<drac_boy>a little iffy that the army version was weaker but was the most utilized one of both post-war nevertheless .. oh well such is history
20:34*drac_boy would also take the original tgv too :P
20:37<snail_UES_>you mean the 141R?
20:37<snail_UES_>one of the most widely steamers used in the country… and american built :p
20:37<drac_boy>oh didn't noticed I hit wrong numkey .. yes the 141 :)
20:38*drac_boy always wondered about the french system of counting per axle instead of per tires
20:42<drac_boy>snail but anyway don't forget to throw in the 6700/6800 (it can be a single loco grfwise tho) .. kinda a bit of universal non-electric loco later on
20:51<Samu>no crashes so far
20:51<Samu>have been testing for hours
20:51<Samu>sahred orders help
20:52<Samu>or else I'd be running out of orders by now
20:53<Samu>i just hope i dont run out of stations
20:54<Samu>ah, it won't run out of stations any time soon
20:54<snail_UES_>you mean the diesel BB6700?
20:55<Samu>about 230 stations per ai
20:55<snail_UES_>that will be in… but these days I’m too busy planning steamers :p
20:58<Samu>testing autosaves
20:58<Samu>let's see if i run out of save time
21:02<Samu>still saved
21:05<drac_boy>anyway snail have fun drinking more french wines ... I'm going off sorry :P
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21:15<nnyby>is the cursor style in openttd configurable? I'm sort of used to OpenGFX's nice little yellow cursor.. but i'd like to use it with the original graphiics set. this big gray error is not as nice.
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23:00<Eddi|zuHause>you can make a grf which just contains the arrow sprites, and use that in [newgrf-static]
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---Logclosed Sun Feb 17 00:00:07 2019