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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-02-21

---Logopened Thu Feb 21 00:00:13 2019
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01:27<@peter1138>Hai dere
01:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
01:44<@peter1138>I currently want 'cd' to put me in the root of my current working tree...
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01:46<andythenorth>so we could add a night mode flag
01:46<andythenorth>and newgrfs could read it, or not
01:46<@peter1138>Apparently we don't need to.
01:46<@peter1138> -- thry that.
01:47<andythenorth>can you chmod it or something?
01:47<andythenorth>403 forbidden
01:48<andythenorth>is this for master? Or one of the many PRs?
01:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
01:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
01:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
01:52<andythenorth>is that the game where I made a castle?
01:54<andythenorth>more castles
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01:56-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #/r/openttd #kernelnewbies #openttd
01:57<dwfreed>peter1138: have you met our lords and saviors pushd and popd ?
01:58<dwfreed>They manipulate a stack of working directories; the top of the stack is the current working directory
01:58<dwfreed>akin to a cd with memory
02:00<@peter1138>I've only been doing this 20 years and never knew of that.
02:00<@peter1138>Although annoying that "pushd" without arguments doesn't work how I'd expect :/
02:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
02:01<dwfreed>'dirs' will show the current state of the stack in case you've forgotten
02:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
02:01<dwfreed>pushd and popd also show the resultant stack after they've performed their operations
02:01<@peter1138>Hmm, okay, it's not quite how I expected.
02:02<@peter1138>cd is still just muscle-memory.
02:02<@peter1138>I'm tempted to write an alias for cd.
02:03<@peter1138>git rev-parse --show-toplevel
02:08<dwfreed>you probably want this: cd() { command cd $(git rev-parse --show-toplevel)/"$1"; }
02:09<dwfreed>and then when you don't want that behavior anymore, just 'unset cd'
02:24<andythenorth>so why are pikka's recolour sprites broken in that savegame?
02:26<andythenorth>nope, just odd CC choices :P
02:46<@peter1138>As Eddi|zuHause didn't get the hint :P
02:59<LordAro>i'm use "cd -" quite a lot, to bounce between 2 different directories
03:03<@peter1138>git config --global alias.make '!exec make '
03:03<@peter1138>Then I can type "git make" from any directory and it does it from the git root, so that's mostly what I do.
03:04<@peter1138>Also added a bare exec alias, so I can do 'git exec bin/openttd'
03:04<@peter1138>'git openttd' is going a bit to far :p
03:04<LordAro>huh, didn't realise all commands were run from the root
03:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7256: Change: Owner of vehicle with exclusive transport rights may now load cargo from neutral stations
03:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7227: Replace Window::scrolling_scrollbar with Window::mouse_capture_widget
03:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7231: Add: Add flag and railtype sprite type to draw pre-combined ground sprites.
03:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7227: Replace Window::scrolling_scrollbar with Window::mouse_capture_widget
03:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7227: Replace Window::scrolling_scrollbar with Window::mouse_capture_widget
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04:00<andythenorth>obvs. I am +1 to synchronised dates :P
04:01<andythenorth>but that's not useful info
04:01<@peter1138>You can say that, though.
04:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7253: Fix #7189: Fluidsynth volume gain too high
04:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7253: Fix #7189: Fluidsynth volume gain too high
04:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #7189: fluidsynth driver plays music too loudly
04:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window
04:21<Samu>oh I'm bad with names
04:24<Samu>static bool IsNormalOrExclusivityStation(Station *st, Vehicle *v)
04:25<@peter1138>static bool CompanyMayLoad(const Station *st, Owner owner) maybe
04:26<@peter1138>ChooChoo AI is a bit noisy.
04:27<@peter1138>"(the following red text is not an actual error)"
04:27<@peter1138>Uh huh
04:27<Samu>static bool HasExclusiveTransportRights(Station *st, Vehicle *v)
04:27<Eddi|zuHause>sounds legit
04:28<Samu>static bool CompanyMayLoad(Station *st, Vehicle *v)
04:28<Samu> return st->owner != OWNER_NONE || st->town->exclusive_counter == 0 || st->town->exclusivity == v->owner;
04:28<@peter1138>If you take a Vehicle, make it VehicleMayLoad()
04:28<@peter1138>And keep the consts.
04:28<@peter1138>const Station *st, const Vehicle 8v
04:30<Samu>such a generic name
04:30<@peter1138>Yeah, just a bit :(
04:31<@peter1138>Something else then. Hmm.
04:32<@peter1138>"throw TaskRetryException();"
04:32<@peter1138>Urgh, that AI is use exceptions for flow control :-(
04:33<Eddi|zuHause>how pythonic
04:34<LordAro>istr pm complaining about it years ago
04:35<Samu>* Test whether a vehicle can load cargo at a neutral station under exclusive transport rights.
04:37<Samu>description is a bit misleading
04:37<Samu>but still correct
04:38<Samu>or do you have a better description?
04:38<@peter1138>"even if exclusive transport rights are present."
04:38<Samu>* Test whether a vehicle can load cargo at a neutral station even if exclusive transport rights are present.
04:38<Samu>maybe no need to mention "neutral"?
04:39<@peter1138>Yeah, no need for neutral
04:39<Samu>* Test whether a vehicle can load cargo at a station even if exclusive transport rights are present.
04:39<Samu>* @param st bla
04:39<Samu>* @param v bla
04:46<@peter1138>You are about the function name.
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04:47<@peter1138>Needs to have Exclusive/Exclusivity in the name somewhere.
04:48<@peter1138>CheckVehicleLoadExclusivity maybe?
04:51<Samu>static bool VehicleMayLoadEvenUnderExclusivity(const Station *st, const Vehicle *v)
04:52<Samu>ugh looks so... big
04:56<@peter1138>VehicleMayLoadEvenUnderExclusivity < that isn't all that bad :p
04:56<Samu>static bool MayLoadUnderExclusieRights(const Station *st, const Vehicle *v)
04:57<Samu>oops, typo
04:58<@peter1138>Go with it
04:58<@peter1138>I'm fine with the condition in the other file as you only added one there.
05:02<crem2>What's happening in openttd world? Any new exciting features?
05:02<crem2>Since 2 years ago or so..
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>no. nothing ever happens here.
05:03<@peter1138>Apparently group liveries are popular.
05:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7256: Change: Owner of vehicle with exclusive transport rights may now load cargo from neutral stations
05:03<@peter1138>There's some nice things, and everyone's like "wow, I can change colours!"
05:03<Samu>openttd mtx
05:05<crem2>Wow group liveries is actually interesting idea. It's different color depending on engine type?
05:05<@peter1138>Nah. That was already there.
05:05<Samu>wow! colours!
05:05<@peter1138>Just one colour per group.
05:06<@peter1138>Yeah, andy liked the rainbow effect :D
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>so andy is everyone now?
05:06<crem2>I didn't know it was. But it's probably visually pleasing and also useful sometimes.
05:07<crem2>"Overhaul of music system" -- can I hear original TTD jazz music again?! That would be nice feature too. :)
05:08<Eddi|zuHause>could you not before?
05:09<crem2>No. I think native MIDI disappeared from sound cards like 15 years ago, and most OSes don't emulate that, no?
05:09<@peter1138>Windows does, and Linux will with the correct software.
05:10<Samu>what does mac do?
05:10<crem2>Linux doesn't do "out of the box" for most setups. I believe one has to recompile something with some flag.
05:10<@peter1138>Probably loads in Protools :p
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05:11<@peter1138>No, you needed to have timidty available.
05:11<Eddi|zuHause>you must have a strange linux
05:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7256: Change: Owner of vehicle with exclusive transport rights may now load cargo from neutral stations
05:24<@peter1138>Error: Unable to load driver 'fluidsynth'. The error was: Could not open any sound font
05:24<@peter1138>Silent warning ;(
05:25<@peter1138>But yeah, once you have the stuff, it just plays like it should.
05:25<@peter1138>No process spawning hacks.
05:27<crem2>Yeah, just read that!
05:28<LordAro>lots of exciting things
05:28<LordAro>honestly the "better fast forward" is likely to be most noticable
05:28<crem2>Hm, for me colours is the only visible feature, but even it is cosmetic. But I'm not complaining. :)
05:29<crem2>Better fast forward?.. which line of changelog is that?
05:30<LordAro>"Change: Decouple GUI timing from game ticks"
05:30<LordAro>it is a bit of a technical changelog entry...
05:30<LordAro>i imagine someone can inprove that for beta3/rc1
05:30<crem2>But actually I think there were lots of newgrf-related features in last X years, but most of players don't discover it because it's pretty tiring to find good compatible newgrf modules.
05:30<@peter1138>Eh, that was a side effect anyway, it wasn't the intention.
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>but how would that affect someone who doesn't use fast forward?
05:31<crem2>I think there's a need of "newgrf packs", and having one of them as "default/recommended" would be even better.
05:31<crem2>not "packs" but rather "presets".
05:32<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, is improves things when the game is runing too slow, as well.
05:32<@peter1138>The intention was to make the window animation work normally regardless of the game speed.
05:32<@peter1138>The sideeffect is that fast-forward became superfast.
05:32<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds more along my use cases :p
05:33<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, I had the Wentbourne save and the news popups took ages to come and go... :p
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know if that is due to something my system does very wrong, but during game startup, the mouse is still choppy when it scans for grfs
05:34<@peter1138>The patch does absolutely _not_ decouple the gui from the gameloop (or any other loop)
05:35<@peter1138>'patch' heh
05:35<@peter1138>The main change is it uses real time instead of game tick time for GUI stuff.
05:35<@peter1138>So yeah, it won't improve the GUI speed if the game is running slow, but it will improve GUI animations and responses.
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>also, the game generation window kinda gets stuck instead of repeatedly updated during longer tasks for me
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>which is meant to be threaded
05:36<@peter1138>It's possible that is using the wrong ticks.
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes it works, sometimes not
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05:49<@peter1138>Complex industry placement?
05:55<andythenorth>super complex
05:56<andythenorth>- place n modular layouts, not just one monolithic layout (not convinced on this one)
05:56<andythenorth>- industries can terraform properly
05:57<andythenorth>- don't force the origin to be N tile, allow an offset of (0, 0) to any location in the layout
06:00<@peter1138> Don't industries have multiple layouts anyway?
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>anything of that helps getting an area preview while funding/placing in editor?
06:00<andythenorth>so in principle, the modular layouts thing is redundant, at least for me
06:01<andythenorth>I could define submodules in my python compile
06:01<andythenorth>then assemble 255 layouts or whatever
06:01<@peter1138>Hmm, that need the randomization to be pushed forward to the client.
06:02<andythenorth>offsetting the origin is far more interesting for the problems I currently have
06:02<andythenorth>that's probably 'just' a co-ordinate transform?
06:02<@peter1138>Or you could make it pseudorandom based on game seed, current date, x/y, etc...
06:04<@peter1138>andythenorth, what's the difference between offseting the origin and... placing it at that offsetted origin anyway?
06:05<andythenorth>possibly nothing
06:05<andythenorth>the words or pictures to describe this are quite long
06:06<andythenorth>if you start a FIRS 3 game, money cheat, then try placing a port or bulk terminal on all the different coast orientations....
06:06<andythenorth>...the frustration is quite high
06:06<andythenorth>there are some more possible solutions to that in newgrf also
06:06<andythenorth>- more layouts
06:07<andythenorth>- more special casing to handle slopes, so that placement can be more lax
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>there's no real reason why when placing random industry, the tile the person clicked on should be the (0,0) tile of the layout
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>and at least in scenario editor, one could allow picking a specific layout (which will then have an area preview)
06:17<andythenorth>so is solving the 0,0 issue just a walk of all the tiles?
06:23<@peter1138>Is it a UI thing?
06:23<@peter1138>i.e. it doesn't matter for any other purpose?
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>maybe we find another purpose?
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>also, can someone fix pantograph placement in TF?
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>Transport Fever
06:31<@peter1138>Ok, so in createNewInduistFF been a marquer for a check on clear water, skip it
06:31<@peter1138>FF been a marquer for a check on clear water, skip it
06:32<@peter1138>belugas comments :D
06:41<andythenorth>le marquer
06:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
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07:32<@peter1138>This music is beautiful...
07:37<@peter1138>Hmm, AI schedular could be better.
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08:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7258: Change: When creating an industry move the origin tile to the center.
08:13*andythenorth tests
08:13<@peter1138>Where "center" usually means +1+1 tile in, cos of rounding.
08:14<@peter1138>Are there 5x5 layouts? :D
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08:17<andythenorth>more natural for non-weird industries
08:17<andythenorth>not helping the port stuff much :)
08:19<@peter1138>I'm not sure how it would help.
08:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7258: Change: When creating an industry move the origin tile to the center.
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08:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7258: Change: When creating an industry move the origin tile to the center.
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08:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andreszs commented on issue #48:
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09:02<supermop_work____>long tail today
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09:10<supermop_work____>yo andythenorth
09:13<@peter1138>andythenorth, so does it solve anything? Shall I close it?
09:36<supermop_work____>hmm do i need even more grey collarless shirts?
09:36<supermop_work____>i am currently wearing a similar shirt in the office
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10:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7258: Change: When creating an industry move the origin tile to the center.
10:04<drac_boy>think it got a little lost in all the push/pull talks yesterday so don't mind me asking .. did someone indeed said articulated rv's can't be passed?
10:18<Samu>new zealand
10:19<Samu>new zealand likes blood
10:22<@peter1138>23:59 < drac_boy> sorry to ask as its been quite a long time but .. can articulated buses be passed or do they still
10:22<@peter1138> have that old no-passing 'bug'?
10:22<@peter1138>00:03 < Eddi|zuHause> nobody changed that
10:22<@peter1138>So yeah... you even responded to that :p
10:22<@peter1138>Samu, such black borders
10:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation
10:24<drac_boy>peter .. that doesn't answer anything :)
10:25<@peter1138>It precisely answers it. Nobody changed anything.
10:25<drac_boy>peter...changed what?
10:25<Samu>they can be passed
10:25<Samu>by non-artic
10:25<Samu>isn't it?
10:26<Samu>must test
10:26<@peter1138>drac_boy, what?
10:26<@peter1138>you literally ask a question, it gets and answer, and you don't know what the answer is about?
10:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations.
10:27<drac_boy>samu mm let me know if you want :)
10:28<Samu>just tested
10:29<Samu>articulated buses can be taken over by non-articulated buses
10:30<Samu>but not the opposite
10:31<@peter1138>Improve it :D
10:31<drac_boy>hmm nice .. probably something to do with the pathfinder and the tail section of the articulated vehicle anyway
10:31<drac_boy>anyway I'll probably have to think of a good batch of non-articulated vehicles for my list
10:31<@peter1138>There's a state-machine in there for overtaking which is simply bypassed for articulated vehicles.
10:33<Samu>looks like aircraft groups are working correctly now
10:33<Samu>will give it 1 more day for testing before I upload v9
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10:36<Samu>cloning a vehicle also clones the group
10:37<Samu>copies the group
10:37<nielsm>creates a new, separate group?
10:37<nielsm>or places the clone in the same group as the original?
10:37<Samu>places the clone in the same group as the original, I believe that was what was causing aircraft being in the wrong groups
10:37<nielsm>well yes, that's what cloning does
10:38<nielsm>it makes an identical vehicle including group and orders and consist and refit
10:38<nielsm>you should not be surprised by that
10:39<Samu>it was a different problem
10:39<Samu>I was using MoveVehicle incorrectly
10:39<Samu>resulted in nothing happening
10:39<Samu>the cloned vehicle would stay in the wrong group
10:40<Samu>instead of being moved to the right group
10:45<@peter1138>Yeah, cloning... makes a clone.
10:45<@peter1138>Apart from construction date :p
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11:00<andythenorth>peter1138: so 7258, doesn't really solve anything no :)
11:01*drac_boy kinda wonders how many people like the lv4 grf from george :)
11:02<andythenorth>unknowable :P
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11:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7254: Codechange: introduce a few unit tests
11:07*drac_boy is going for some real food ;) (sorry no food.grf for that heh)
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11:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7258: Change: When creating an industry move the origin tile to the center.
11:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed pull request #7258: Change: When creating an industry move the origin tile to the center.
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11:37<Samu>Remove: OPF, kekeke
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11:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7257: Codechange: Remove never-used StationIDList.
11:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7257: Codechange: Remove never-used StationIDList.
11:49<supermop_work____>andythenorth: i've been enjoying my little gatwick express rakes
11:52<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE though
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11:58<supermop_work____>FUN FEATURE
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12:06<andythenorth>you got livery groups supermop_work____ ?
12:07<andythenorth>1.9.0 beta?
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12:26<nielsm>okay almost ready to pretend I wrote a perfect kdtree.hpp all along
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12:32<nielsm>hmm I do want to split this one commit into two :s
12:37<Samu>those guys at the british house of commons do have some weird rituals
12:37<Samu>do ppl in the uk take that crap seriously?
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12:41<Samu>at least it's a much smaller room than ours
12:42<Samu>ours is so large for such a small country
12:43<Samu> too bg
12:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
12:45<nielsm>there's a big cleanup :P
13:02<Samu>that looks kinda repeating in 1144
13:03<nielsm>hm yeah that's a strange way of expressing it
13:03<nielsm>maybe it was different previously?
13:05<nielsm>yeah it used to do something before the inner if
13:06<Samu>12 years ago
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>gah, i thought i solved my performance issues with some changes to limits.conf, but now they're back with a vengeance :/
13:42<Samu>I'm inventing some weird stuff
13:43<Samu>and I can already see it not working
13:46<Samu>uint16 produced_cargo_waiting[INDUSTRY_NUM_OUTPUTS][MAX_COMPANIES + 1];
13:46<Samu>cargo bias
13:46<Samu>15 companies + owner_none
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13:55<Eddi|zuHause2>ok, that was a service that was actually in use :p
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14:14<Samu>bah, newgrf getting in the way
14:16<Samu>how is this used for?
14:17<Samu>whatever, I'll calculate the sum
14:18<nielsm>careful with that
14:19<nielsm>if you return the wrong value there, production callbacks will behave wrong
14:20<nielsm>if you want industries to have separate stockpiles per company serving them, you need to do one or two things:
14:20<nielsm>the one thing you must do is make newgrf industries with production callback not have the per-company behavior by default, because they don't know how to deal with it
14:21<nielsm>the one thing you can add on top is a new flag for newgrf industries that enables them to work with per-company stockpiles/production, by changing the meaning of production callback and the stockpile variables
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14:42<andythenorth>so what GS are there?
14:42<andythenorth>Busy Bee, Silicon Valley, NoCarGoal
14:42<andythenorth>any others?
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>never tried any
14:42<nielsm>city builder?
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>don't city builders rely on heavily modified servers (and clients)?
14:43<andythenorth>I don't understand city building
14:43<andythenorth>cities are annoying
14:43<andythenorth>they're one of the fail points of OpenTTD
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14:44<LordAro>andythenorth: a BAD FEATURE?
14:44<m3henry>I think it's makes the game more like a 'base builder'
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15:05<nielsm>hm I want to take all viewport signs (station names, town names, player signs) and put in a kdtree, but not sure if it's fancier to put them in a single shared tree or make a separate tree for each
15:06<nielsm>with a single shared tree I'd make the tree element something like struct ViewportElement { enum ViewportElementClass; union id { StationID station; TownID town; SignID sign; }; }
15:07<nielsm>the major disadvantage of that might be viewport signs being less well defined in draw order, perhaps
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15:35<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, there are Aphid's CB and Simple CB
15:36<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, and they don't rely on modified stuff, they're just better with it
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15:38<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: intuitively i'd say separate for each
15:39<_dp_>CB is basically a goal that requires stable deliveries of stuff to a single place
15:39<_dp_>mixed with some town growth mechanics
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15:41<andythenorth>IndustryBuilder :P
15:42<nielsm>GS sadly lacks a lot of industry controls, and all the newgrf industry stuff gets in the way of implementing that well
15:42<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause: how are you with astroneer? I have iron and I'm going to hunt for lithium now
15:42<_dp_>GS lacks all kinds of control xD
15:43<Wolf01>"now"... it's late... tomorrow maybe
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: i have lithium and tungsten, looking for iron next, but the vehicle enter bugs and low fps kinda hold me back
15:43<andythenorth>GS is awful :)
15:43<andythenorth>but I wouldn't play without it
15:44<Wolf01>The vehicle enter bug is easily fixable, just move away from the vehicle until it is invisible and go back
15:44<andythenorth>I should try this
15:44<andythenorth>but I don't understand it :P
15:45<andythenorth>eh also
15:45<andythenorth>I like BB, SV and NCG because there's no 'reward' other than arbitrary message
15:45<andythenorth>it's just a goal, I fail or win, there's no additional gameplay from achieving the goal
15:46<andythenorth>'well done your city has grown' is just about the worst reward I can think of :P
15:48<_dp_>andythenorth, well, in mp you can compete with others in speed or town size
15:48<andythenorth>understood :)
15:49<andythenorth>I don't play MP much though
15:49<andythenorth>so now I need to write a GS, so I can play interesting test games, so I can test new OpenTTD features, so I can make newgrfs
15:49<_dp_>andythenorth, pretty much all goal mp servers are basically sp but in controlled environment
15:49<andythenorth>wheels in wheels :P
16:00<@peter1138>Non-square catchment, option or not?
16:01<nielsm>why does youtube think I have any interest in videos of people doing absurdly dangerous things like riding on the exterior of freight trains at speed :(
16:03<nielsm>peter1138: arguably the old behaviour is only a feature in the sense of being a documented bug
16:03<nielsm>so more like an exploit
16:03<@peter1138>This one is kinda tricky to make an option.
16:04<@peter1138>The "is station in catchment" part is easy, but the catchment iterator would require some specialness.
16:04<@peter1138>And... not worth it? :p
16:04<@peter1138>Hmm, resting HR back down to 51 bpm.
16:05<nielsm>cargo magically being at both an airport terminal and a bus station 16 tiles apart at the same time quantum behaviour is still exploit-ish but harder to do something about in a reasonable way
16:05<@peter1138>That still happens :/
16:06<@peter1138>I wondered if we could "rate" catchment by how detached it is...
16:06<@peter1138>so detached parts would still count, but have a localized effect, and not be as good as the main part.
16:06<@peter1138>Probably too much effort :p
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16:07<nielsm>anyway, I'm good with classing the old catchment behaviour as an exploit that ought to be fixed
16:07<nielsm>and not worth a switch
16:08<@peter1138>It's kinda silly fixing it, tbh, cos you can just plonk more road stops down, but...
16:08<@peter1138>There's some edge cases where it would get you catchment that
16:08<@peter1138>Like, as you say, a big hole.
16:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
16:11<nielsm>I wonder if that new commit is a good idea, and if I did it correct :)
16:12<@peter1138>Ok, that was damned good baklava.
16:13<@peter1138>Hmm, testing exclusivity in a single-player game :S
16:13<nielsm>get a null AI and use cheats to switch companies :)
16:14<@peter1138>I've loaded an old save in multiplayer :-)
16:14<@peter1138>Although I realise single player + cheats yes... D'oh.
16:14<@peter1138>Oh, fail my life.
16:14<@peter1138>It's a co-op game.
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16:19<@peter1138>Hmm, how long does exclusivity last? :p
16:19<nielsm>a year
16:20<@peter1138>Testing Samu's patch, appears to do what it says on the tin.
16:20<@peter1138>Hmm, apparently I've got a viewer.
16:21<@peter1138>Well, I'm happy with it.
16:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7256: Change: Owner of vehicle with exclusive transport rights may now load cargo from neutral stations
16:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7256: Change: Owner of vehicle with exclusive transport rights may now load cargo from neutral stations
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16:39<@peter1138>Falling back to patching base and 3-way merge...
16:39<@peter1138>Scary ;)(
16:40<@peter1138>It compiled.
16:40<LordAro>ship it.
16:41<@peter1138>It's nrt, so yes, I'd like to.
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16:51<Eddi|zuHause>oh, next astroneer patch
16:56<Sacro>Do like astroneer
17:00<nielsm>wonder if this can be made work...
17:00<nielsm>regardless, not today
17:00<nielsm>it's getting late
17:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
17:02<@peter1138>No it's not.
17:02<@peter1138>Why would it not work?
17:03<nielsm>maybe I'm missing something that suddenly turns out to make things much harder than initially thought :)
17:03<@peter1138>Hmm, sorted by ID, is that right?
17:03<nielsm>the operator< really only matters for Kdtree::FindNearest
17:03<nielsm>to discriminate between multiple items with equal distance
17:04<nielsm>(it could be used to determine mouse clicks)
17:04<@peter1138>Ok, so it's not really part of the sorting.
17:04<@peter1138>Does it work?
17:04<@peter1138>Is it faster?
17:04<nielsm>not implemented yet :)
17:04<@peter1138>Do it :D
17:04<nielsm>haven't written any of the Add or Remove functions
17:05<@peter1138>That's the bit where balancing the tree is awkward, right?
17:05<nielsm>yeah no, as I said, it's getting late and I'm too tired to write good code at this point
17:05<@peter1138>Or did you solve that.
17:05<@peter1138>nielsm, it'll be better than Samu code!
17:06<@peter1138>Correctly summoned :-)
17:06<nielsm>yeah you can't balance a k-d tree by rotations, unlike most common balanced trees (red-black etc), since each level has different key
17:06<nielsm>so basically have to rebuild a branch entirely to rebalance
17:06<@peter1138>I know nothing about balanced trees.
17:06<nielsm>there might be faster methods that don't require full rebuilds, but that's too advanced for me at this point :P
17:07<@peter1138>Right, I should remove my old engine-introduction-date-sync.
17:07<@peter1138>Seeing as it seems the synchronize-random-date stuff is looking better.
17:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
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17:56<Samu>ST2, hi
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>ok, so definitely something has changed... i still get abysmal FPS, but the vehicle is way faster, so i can't react to anything and it's basically just flailing around
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>also, i used the drill on my tractor, and now the train behind me is sunken into the ground and i can't move
17:58<Samu>could you call me when u got ppl transporting goods that isn't theirs in one of your servers? Need a savegame test case
17:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SylvainDevidal opened issue #7259: Waiting cargo show cargo that should be hidden
17:59<Samu>or i may just take a look
17:59<Samu>crap, i dont have 1.8.0 installed anymore, nevermind ST2
18:02<LordAro>#7259 sounds like it might be a window ticks thing?
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's not a "hide this cargo" feature
18:03<@peter1138>It's a filter.
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>but not an "exclude" filter, just a "don't include" filter
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>if you select "mail", it still shows passengers on stations that have mail
18:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7259: Waiting cargo show cargo that should be hidden
18:08<Samu>it works!
18:09<Samu>do u guys have savegames where multiple companies are transporting goods or steel from the same industry?
18:09<Samu>need to test
18:11<LordAro>ah, i see
18:11<LordAro>perhaps a tooltip could be improved?
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18:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SylvainDevidal commented on issue #7259: Waiting cargo show cargo that should be hidden
18:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SylvainDevidal closed issue #7259: Waiting cargo show cargo that should be hidden
18:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7252: Fix #7159, e934f09: Waiting time at red one-way signals was too short.
18:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7252: Fix #7159, e934f09: Waiting time at red one-way signals was too short.
18:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7159: Reverse at signal timeouts occur unexpectedly quickly, affects title game
18:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7243: Change: Decrease the min #opcodes
18:23<nnyby>hmm.. is the nightly changelog broken?
18:24<LordAro>looks it
18:26<Samu>is this good english Feature: Favour company which delivers primary cargo to an industry by prioritizing stations of that company at receiving the transformed cargo
18:26<Samu>maybe "when"
18:27<Samu>Feature: Favour company which delivers primary cargo to an industry by prioritizing stations of that company when receiving the transformed cargo
18:29<Samu>i have many questions about my implementation
18:29<Samu>it was rushed
18:30<Samu>i have no idea about newgrf_industries how they work
18:30<Samu>i dont know how to perform savegame conversion
18:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation
18:42<Samu>btw, I'm reusing MAX_COMPANIES as OWNER_NONE
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18:44<drac_boy>hi there..was just thinking a bit about in-game maths and had to ask for a second opinion .. would loosely loaded versus sacks-loaded open wagons (or mineral wagons for any uk-eng people here) basically really come to the same total cargo tonnage? my reasoning was that although the sacks would induce a bit more air space the fact that it can be stacked a bit higher than the wagonbody's rim neglects this
18:45<drac_boy>oh sorry I didn't think I would type so much in one go :-s heh
18:45<Samu>what have you done to holding left click on a scrollbar...
18:46<Samu>only moves once
18:46<LordAro>ooh, did peter1138 break it?
18:47<Samu>on the arrows
18:47<Samu>not on the scrollbar, my bad
18:48<@peter1138>Who even clicks on them? :o
18:48<@peter1138>Yeah, I see
18:48<@peter1138> /* If cursor hasn't moved, there is nothing to do. */
18:49<@peter1138>That needs to be moved.
18:52<LordAro>holding down left click on the scrollbar itself also only moves it once
18:52<@peter1138>Oh right, same fix.
18:53<LordAro>i assumed so
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18:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7260: Fix #7227: Don't apply mouse-hasn't-moved test to scrollbars.
18:56<Samu>i meant the arrow buttons
18:56<Samu>the scrollbars are fine
18:57<@peter1138>The buttons are part of the scrollbars.
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19:08<@peter1138>Ok, RV path cache working.
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19:12<@peter1138>19-20fps in Wentbourne.
19:14<@peter1138>Oh of course, that's with the group vehicle ticks too.
19:28<+glx>big improvement it seems
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>is there a slow gear on the tractor? i can't get up any slopes like this :/
19:29<drac_boy>tractor? john deere? :)
19:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7261: Add: Road vehicle path cache.
19:32<@peter1138>glx, screenshot of the framerate window in there :)
19:33<@peter1138>So only 2-3fps improvement with the rv path cache.
19:33<@peter1138>Probably still worthwhile.
19:33<@peter1138>The group-vehicle-ticks path is still a massive win for me.
19:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7254: Codechange: introduce a few unit tests
19:34<+glx>even if 2-3fps seems small it's important I think
19:34<@peter1138>I tried not saving the path cache in the savegame, it works but takes quite a long time for performance to pick up again, and you need to synchronize when to clear the caches on all clients.
19:35<@peter1138>2-3 fps is small, but actually it's a 33% improvement.
19:35<@peter1138>(in that savegame)
19:36<+glx>yes on heavy games it's important
19:36<@peter1138>Any savegame with large cities with grid-pattern layouts would see an improvement, I think.
19:36<@peter1138>Er, as long as RVs are used :-)
19:36<+glx>they are often used as feeders
19:36<@peter1138>grid = lots of mostly equal paths, and lots of pathfinding on every junction.
19:37<@peter1138>I set the limit to 8 segments, which means it'll cache the result of 8 junctions.
19:37<@peter1138>Or maybe 7, there's a > 1 in there. Hmm.
19:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7254: Codechange: introduce a few unit tests
19:45<Samu>im a terrible boolean
19:46<Samu> will this work? :o
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19:50<Samu>suddenly pink transports goods, let's see what happens
19:50<@peter1138>Samu, " } else { if { " -> " } else if { "
19:53<@peter1138>st1/st2 implies whatever it is is still only the first 2 stations.
19:54<Samu>bad stuff happens, i failed
19:54<Samu>only pink should be allowed to get cargo
19:54<Samu>orange is getting some :|
19:54<Samu>pink is the one delivering wood
19:55<Samu>should have priority to transport goods
19:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7255: Crashlog truncated with many news messages
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20:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7262: Change: Smooth AI CPU usage by spreading out AI ticks in relation to competitor speed.
20:17<@peter1138>^ kinda ruins Samu's "start all AIs on the first tick" stuff, but...
20:32<+glx>they will still start in about the same tick
20:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7262: Change: Smooth AI CPU usage by spreading out AI ticks in relation to competitor speed.
20:33<@peter1138>If competitor_speed is max, then no change.
20:35<+glx>worst case is 15 ticks difference, but still in the same day
20:37<+glx>eh of course, different tick may have different random
20:41<+glx>hmm GetWagonAge() one is weird, but maybe related to random too
20:44<+glx>hmm or different day
20:47<+glx>yes different day
20:54<Samu>i fail at bools :(
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>old and busted: trying to drive the rover train but only managing to flail around wildly
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>new hotness: using the winch to drag the rover train, really flailing around wildly
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22:07<Samu>testing it seems to be doing well, but not 100% sure yet
22:08<Samu>it's a complex network of cargo, hard to follow
22:08<Samu>there are 6 stations around the industry
22:08<Samu>it's a sawmill. 4 stations receive wood
22:09<Samu>3 of those stations receive it from pink
22:09<Samu>1 of those receive it from orange
22:09<Samu>then, 3 of the stations around the industry load goods
22:10<Samu>1 from pink, 1 from orange and 1 from green
22:11<Samu>pink can load goods because it's also pink that delivers wood
22:11<Samu>but pink can't load goods when orange delivers wood
22:12<Samu>because orange also delivers it
22:12<Samu>orange, on the other hand can load goods because it's also orange that delivers wood
22:13<Samu>but orange can't load goods when pink delivers wood
22:13<Samu>because pink also delivers it
22:13<Samu>green can never load goods in any case
22:13<Samu>becase it never delivers any wood
22:14<Samu>but !!!
22:15<Samu>if pink doesn't transport goods
22:15<Samu>both orange and green may load goods even when it's pink delivering wood
22:16<Samu>does all of this make any sense?
22:19<Samu>perhaps my explanation is confusing :|
22:21<Samu>this appears to be working, but I still need to test multiple stations of the same owners
22:21<Samu>loading goods
22:21<Samu>will do that tomorrow
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23:32-!-Wormnest is "Wormnest" on #openttd
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 22 00:00:14 2019