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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-02-25

---Logopened Mon Feb 25 00:00:58 2019
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00:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] gyf9835 opened issue #61: Does the website have a multilingual plan?
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02:17<@peter1138>Is it.
02:20<@peter1138>Oh! It is.
02:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7274: Very long stalls during town generation
02:23<andythenorth>it is
02:23<andythenorth>Monday Monday
02:47<LordAro>oh no, not again
02:50<andythenorth>beta 3 done then?
02:51<andythenorth>anyone a forum mod? needs title updated
02:51<andythenorth>or we do a new post, but I prefer betas all in one post
02:53<LordAro>i think a new post
02:53<LordAro>historically speaking, certainly
02:54<LordAro>alao a news post
02:54*andythenorth looks what changed
02:55<andythenorth>github web UI is piss poor for looking at commits
02:56<andythenorth>I have a work repo viewer configured to show 200 commits in a page :P
02:57<LordAro>andythenorth: luckily there's a collated list of changes in a text file
02:57<andythenorth>how handy
02:59<andythenorth>shall I do forums?
03:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
03:02<@peter1138>Edit the title and bump the post.
03:03<@peter1138>Or do a new post. I don't care.
03:03<@peter1138>The beta2 post will get buried soon enough.
03:05<LordAro>andythenorth: maybe a link to GH issues?
03:05<LordAro>not that we want to encourage that sort of behaviour :p
03:06<andythenorth>how do we do news posts?
03:06<andythenorth>I'm editing one on the website repo right now :P
03:06<andythenorth>we don't have a suitable branch thouhg
03:08<andythenorth>ah fuck it, I'll do a PR from my repo
03:08<andythenorth>does everyone have to have a fork just to do posts? :P
03:10<@peter1138>Probably :/
03:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andythenorth opened pull request #62: Create
03:11<andythenorth>commit style will fail :P
03:11<LordAro>wait, does the website have those checks?
03:11<andythenorth>I don't usually use github editing UI, I get confused between commit and PR title
03:12<@peter1138>I've locked the beta2 thread.
03:12<andythenorth>dunno, azure is probably stuck
03:12<andythenorth>waiting for login
03:12<andythenorth>oh no, it's running
03:12<@peter1138>Branch 62
03:14<andythenorth>someone approve it :P
03:14<andythenorth>then we all move on with our lives
03:14<LordAro>andythenorth: i might suggest that "beta 2" should be "beta2"
03:15<@peter1138>Yes, we refered to beta1 and beta2 in the previous post.
03:15<LordAro>also "font size" -> "font scaling", given changing font sise is a different setting
03:15<LordAro>might be more of a changelog thing
03:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andythenorth updated pull request #62: Create
03:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] planetmaker approved pull request #62: Create
03:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] planetmaker merged pull request #62: Create
03:33<@planetmaker>so... I even tagged that in the website repo... when does the website update? :)
03:57<LordAro> mm, modules & coroutines in c++20
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04:04<@planetmaker>yay, website updated :)
04:04<@planetmaker>LordAro, so your next project is "introduce c++20 into OpenTTD code base"? ;)
04:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
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04:26<@peter1138>Oh balls, I broke font-scaling on bitmap fonts now :(
04:27<@peter1138>- GfxClearSpriteCache();
04:27<@peter1138>^ needs to go back in. Oops.
04:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7062: Ship pathfinders ignore the max order distance
04:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
04:52<crem2>Did you know that you have discord server? I just realized. :)
04:53<@planetmaker>crem2, as far as I know there's a few discord with OpenTTD theme
04:53<crem2>No, there is an official! :) Hm, why am I 2.
04:53-!-crem2 is now known as crem
04:53<@peter1138>We don't have a discord server.
04:53<@peter1138>Discord has Discord servers.
04:54<Eddi|zuHause>do we have an azure cloud server?
04:54<@peter1138>You might know this as vendor lock in.
04:54<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, nope :(
04:54<Eddi|zuHause>or a github server?
04:55<@peter1138>Of course, we don't have an IRC server either, but we easily could.
04:55<Eddi|zuHause>IMHO, the vendor lock-in problem isn't that we don't own the discrod server, but that you can only use it with discord clients
04:55<crem>Ok, I didn't expect that linguistic pedantism is hobby of this channel. :)
04:56<@peter1138>It's the Internet, of course it is.
04:56<crem>Do you have a channel on oftc irc network?
04:56<@planetmaker>crem, anyway, which discord serverdo you refer to?
04:56<Eddi|zuHause>crem: in my experience, pedantism and railway/transport-nerdism go very well together
04:56<@planetmaker>and... you're *in* the IRC channel on oftc
04:56<@planetmaker>or we wouldn't be talking right now
04:57<@peter1138>planetmaker, he's throwing back the pedanticism at me :-)
04:57<crem>Yeah, but does someone of openttd community "has" it? :)
04:57<@peter1138>No, we use it based on the terms of OFTC.
04:57<Eddi|zuHause>someone is listed as "owner" :p
04:57<crem>Ok. :)
04:58<@peter1138>"owner" means "can adminsitrate" in this case.
04:58<@peter1138>With IRC, we can easily switch to another IRC server/channel, and everything would be fine.
04:58<@peter1138>With discord... well it's discord or discord.
04:58<crem>discord "server" also doesn't mean anything that is traditionally meant by word "server".
04:59<@peter1138>So they shouldn't use the term "server" then.
04:59<@peter1138>Maybe they don't, even.
04:59<@planetmaker>crem, anyway, which discord do you refer to?
04:59<LordAro>interestingly, apparently the channel masters are peter1138, DarkSSH & Bjarni
04:59<LordAro>whoever those guys are
04:59<@planetmaker>maybe... peter should add at least one other master
04:59<crem>They do use name "server" for that "group of channels" thingy.
04:59<@planetmaker>to increase bus factor
04:59<@peter1138>I didn't know I was a master!
05:00*planetmaker did :P
05:00<crem>Reddit's /r/openTTD one. I cannot generate the invite link.
05:00<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, there's a step above "master"?
05:01<@peter1138>crem, Reddit's /r/openTTD... is not anything to do with us.
05:01<@planetmaker>crem, yes, ok. That's ok. They talked to us
05:01<@peter1138>So how can that be "our" discord "server"?
05:02<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, what's that, and how do I see it?
05:02<crem>There is a channel #development, I thought there's some intersection between you and them. :)
05:02<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: dunno
05:02<@peter1138>They can develop their own stuff, I'm sure.
05:02<@peter1138>Like their stupid rules :D
05:02<crem>Good, leaving that "server" then.
05:03<@planetmaker>crem: well... we talked about having an irc 2 discord bridge. It's still somewhat in test phase
05:03<@planetmaker>no need to leave that server... they're good guys there and helpful, I guess, too
05:03<@peter1138>We're not having an irc 2 discord bridge.
05:03<crem>Bridges are popular but I don't find them that nice. They add lots of noise in text flow.
05:04<@planetmaker>they do, yes
05:04<@peter1138>Quite, the examples that were given were hideous.
05:04<@peter1138>And if it happens, I'm out. Again.
05:05<@peter1138>Embrace, extend, extinguish, etc...
05:06<@planetmaker>you think they can do that?
05:06<@peter1138>That happens when people using IRC channels decide to switch to Discord.
05:07<Eddi|zuHause>i'm almost certainly not following to discord, and i'll probably set the noisy "repeat stuff" bot on ignore
05:07<@peter1138>I heard something about them already nerfing bridges.
05:08<@planetmaker>I heard / read that they removed the official bridge which used to exist. Not sure it's true, but sure there's no officially supported one
05:08<@peter1138>As channel master, I can silence it anyway ;)
05:08<@peter1138>(I'm joking, I'm not *that* much of a tyrant.)
05:08<@peter1138>Maybe joking.
05:09<crem>The discord is IRC done right actually. :) Two major drawbacks are closed protocol so that custom clients are not possible, and lost history in various events (left server, discord went bankrupt, server deleted, etc).
05:09<@planetmaker>*the* major drawback is the closed protocol
05:09<Eddi|zuHause>how is that "right" in any sense of the word?
05:10<@planetmaker>and yes, it looks nicer than IRC. Though IRC can be very appealing in its simple text form. Less clutter. More information density. Easier searched
05:10<@peter1138>I bet they still have Discord-Twitch bridging, cos you know, that's not a direct competitor.
05:11<@peter1138>Looking nice is a client feature.
05:11<@planetmaker>So given the choice, I probably mostly would use IRC. And quite true, peter1138
05:12<@peter1138>That fact that many people use text-based clients deliberately says something about the userbase. We don't actually want the fancy web-based shit that Discord is.
05:12<crem>"right" being not missing things when you offline, being able to edit mistakes, being able to have "info" channels (read only with static test), easy way to embed things like images. Also "reactions" are convenient for votings, although usefullness of their primary purpose is questionable.
05:13<crem>Also easy to post code snippets inline.
05:14<crem>But also everyone in one place (whether it's irc or discord) is much better than split with bridge.
05:14<@planetmaker>peter1138, *that* is an inference which is not exactly logical. The userbase interested in communication and capable of valuable contributions might be much broader - but is deterred by the lack of "suitable" means
05:14<@planetmaker>(in their eyes)
05:15<@planetmaker>It's just that *we* are happy to exist in our own bubble, shielded from the rest
05:15<@planetmaker>by technical means, so to say
05:16<crem>I also know a few examples of communities who went from irc to discord and active participation went from ~20 people to ~200.
05:16<@planetmaker>crem, I agree
05:17<@peter1138>Great, we'd never be able to have coherent conversations.
05:17<@planetmaker>it's somewhat the same argument as switching from our own hosted source to hosting it on github
05:17<@planetmaker>and our own hosted CI
05:18<@planetmaker>to azure
05:18<@peter1138>github is a no brainer, you still have total clones of the repo. Issues/PRs not quite, of course.
05:20<@planetmaker>which kinda proves the embrace, extend,... thing right there
05:21<crem>Why is there no open source replacement of discord.. IRC seems to be stuck in 1980s. There are some jabber channels, but all in all jabber was a failure.
05:21<@peter1138>Mumble too.
05:24<_dp_>join #/r/openttd
05:25<_dp_>join /r/openttd
05:25<@planetmaker> /join #/r/openttd ;)
05:25<_dp_>oups, yeah, sorry)
05:25<Eddi|zuHause>too many slashes :p
05:27<@peter1138>I need to find an EBCDIC to ASCII converter...
05:27<@peter1138>Not even sure it's EBCDIC.
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>that's just a simple table lookup? can't be that hard
05:28<@peter1138>Yes, not that hard, just a bit obsolete.
05:29<crem>iconv -f EBCDIC-IT
05:29<@peter1138>Fixed width 132 characters, nice.
05:29<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds normal for something that uses EBCDIC :p
05:31<@peter1138>"Sending data set P.FTP.xxxxxxxxxxx FIXrecfm 132"
05:31<@peter1138>Yeah, it even says there.
05:34<_dp_>btw, can discord bridge add some extra ui? like show players and companies connected to openttd server?
05:34<_dp_>having just a repeat bot is kinda boring :(
05:35<LordAro>10:09:21 < crem> The discord is IRC done right actually.
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: if you make an admin port library
05:35<@peter1138>_dp_, I ditched the station-scan version of finding nearby stations. It had a flaw :p
05:35<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, I have admin port (or so) but not sure how to add things to discord
05:36<@peter1138>So we now have the relatively fast map-scan, along with cached nearby station lists, and the explicit catchment tiles.
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05:36<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: you'd have to read up on their protocol
05:36<@peter1138>Hmm, red X.
05:37<@peter1138>Oh, it was an Azure fail.
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05:39<Eddi|zuHause>i should work on something, but i can't get started...
05:40<@peter1138>for (Station * const *st_iter = all_stations->Begin(); st_iter != all_stations->End(); ++st_iter) {
05:40<@peter1138>Station *st = *st_iter;
05:40<@peter1138>for (auto st : *all_stations) {
05:40<@peter1138>Somewhat briefer.
05:42<_dp_>peter1138, why do you still need stations_near then (for towns)?
05:42<@peter1138>In what instance?
05:43<_dp_>peter1138, any instance, if you do tilescan for nearest sations anyway why even bother maintaining that cache?
05:44<@peter1138>_dp_, oh! I only do the tilescan when adding buildings or industries.
05:45<@peter1138>If we didn't have the nearby list, we'd need to tilescan every time a house tile/industry tile wanted to produce cargo, even if there are no stations around.
05:47<_dp_>peter1138, oh, so you mean it's faster to use in worldgen as area is smaller and slower for cargo production?
05:47<_dp_>peter1138, FindStationsAroundTiles looks like two functions smashed together btw
05:47<@peter1138>For world gen I don't do it at all. There's no stations.
05:47<_dp_>peter1138, oh, right, it's !_generating_world...
05:48<_dp_>peter1138, where am I even looking then xD
05:48<@peter1138>I dunno what you're asking :D
05:49<@peter1138>So FindStationsAroundTiles can use the nearby lists as well.
05:49<_dp_>in MakeTownHouse you added FindStationsAroundTiles, I'm struggling to understand what is it for :)
05:50<@peter1138>So if a town expands, that will find any new nearby stations for the town.
05:52<@peter1138>So now the map scan is done on tile creation (once) rather than cargo creation (every time)
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05:53<@peter1138>Most of the time that scan won't find anything new.
05:53<_dp_>peter1138, yeah, I didn't notice at first that FindStationsAroundTiles outputs into it's second argument
05:54<@peter1138>stations = &Industry::GetByTile(location.tile)->stations_near;
05:55<@peter1138>That's looking wrong at the moment. Thanks for making me review it.
05:55<_dp_>peter1138, yeah, noticed that too xD
05:55<@peter1138>Unnoticed because that case is pretty rare.
05:56<@peter1138>Fun fact: Industry::location.tile is not necessarily an industry tile.
05:57<@peter1138>I did a TIC/TOC on the 50k stations save.
05:57<_dp_>peter1138, is it just a top tile of a bounding rect?
05:57<@peter1138>Yup, and industries aren't square.
05:58<@peter1138>I did a TIC/TOC test. In the 50k stations save, the old FOR_ALL_STATIONS scan took... around 1800000 cycles to perform.
05:58<@peter1138>The map-scan took 38000 cycles.
05:59<_dp_>peter1138, yeah, I used to know a trick to build ecs mammoth coal mine xD
05:59<@peter1138>Yeah, your stations look illegal :p
06:00<@peter1138>Map-scan normally takes abour 3500 cycles, but overlapping stations increase that fairly linearly.
06:00<@peter1138>In a normal but busy save a FOR_ALL_STATIONS scan took about 9000 cycles, which is not horrendous but still slower.
06:01<_dp_>peter1138, what cycles are you measuring btw?
06:04<_dp_>peter1138, something like rdtsc you mean?
06:05<@peter1138>Exactly that.
06:05<@peter1138>It's good enough for a rough indication.
06:06<_dp_>peter1138, yeah, never actually worked with it but looks like it's good enough
06:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] auge8472 commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
06:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on issue #7268: Suggestion: Option not to disclose server information when password-protected
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06:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
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06:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
06:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
07:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
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07:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7278: Fix 195fd0dc60: Sprite cache must still be cleared when using bitmap fonts.
07:54<_dp_>hm, links to that doesn't seem to exist
07:55<_dp_>when clicking on openttd logo
07:55<@peter1138>Hmm, that's an odd place for it to link to :)
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07:56<_dp_>servers page seem kinda broken overall
07:57<_dp_>no menu, empty footer, etc.
08:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7279: Fix #7062: Remove ship max order distance.
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08:11<drac_boy>hi there
08:14<@planetmaker>_dp_, you speak of OpenTTD main page?
08:14<@planetmaker>or just that sub-page... hm
08:15<@peter1138>It's because it's one of the last remaining dynamic pages.
08:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] planetmaker opened issue #63: footer/header of
08:17<@peter1138>Hmm, removing (error) strings that are referenced in the squirrel API...
08:18<@planetmaker>he... 83 clients. 336 servers. Somewhat a mis-match :P
08:19<drac_boy>planetmaker depends .. does "clients" mean hosts too or only non-host players?
08:19<drac_boy>I dunno where it counts from tho so don't ask me :)
08:20<@planetmaker>it counts from what the online servers report
08:20<@planetmaker>all which are publicly visible, i.e. can be found when ingame searching for servers
08:20<@planetmaker>the servers know how many people are playing - which is reported to the master server
08:21<@planetmaker>as players want to see the info when joining servers
08:21<drac_boy>mm guess I don't know any better then :)
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08:21<@planetmaker>we funnily had yesterday a request that servers don't send those info... kinda stupid
08:22<drac_boy>hmm yeah stupid indeed
08:23<@planetmaker>if you want your server stats not being public, it's simple: don't talk to our master server. That's a valid config option you can use as server owner
08:24<drac_boy>theres only one thing I don't like about the multiplayer window but .. umm I dunno how it can be changed tho so .. meh not bothered reporting it :)
08:24<@planetmaker>then the answer is of course 'no' ;)
08:25<drac_boy>very funny .. are you the type that prefer to look for servers that have non-vanilla vehicles or not so much?
08:25<@planetmaker>it depends very much on the moon phase. Or my mood etc.
08:26<drac_boy>fair enough
08:26<@planetmaker>usually I play with some NewGRFs
08:27<@planetmaker>which most of the time means vehicle NewGRFs included
08:27<@peter1138>Woo, 1.9.0-beta3 now reports as such ;)
08:27<@peter1138>And there's one on the server list.
08:27<@peter1138>And it's got some weird settings that makes it a bit hard :p
08:28<@planetmaker>he... :)
08:28<@peter1138>infrastructure costs, disasters, inflation, breakdowns...
08:30<drac_boy>planetmarker nice. so anyway the complain is not being able to find newgrf-only servers after the initial install of various grfs .. and well its been a while ago so I dunno if anything has been altered or not but: why can't the window filter out these non-newgrf that seem to somewhat make a dirty list to trawl through .. I mean exactly how is "lukk trainset" a grf when it seem to have nothing
08:30<@peter1138>Should be good for ships, though.
08:30<@planetmaker>funny you say that right now when I logged into my server to update it :)
08:32<@planetmaker>drac_boy, but... the server listing shows an icon for NewGRFs being used.
08:32<@planetmaker>It's nothing you can filter on, though
08:33<@planetmaker>and... an empty NewGRF is a NewGRF nonetheless. You cannot join without it
08:33<@planetmaker>it is a queer way to make sure that people visit a certain website, I guess
08:34<@planetmaker>it's another way to track how many unique clients you have. For instance
08:36<@planetmaker>I'd say: that is a problem which is very hard do solve (if at all)
08:36<@planetmaker>Should be possible to filter the server list though for certain NewGRFs
08:36<@planetmaker>pull-requests welcome :)
08:37<_dp_>drac_boy, luuk trainset adds some locos
08:37<@peter1138>Oh, cargo-dist too.
08:40<_dp_>there are some newgrfs that seem empty because for some stuff making newgrf is the only way to configure a server
08:40<drac_boy>planetmaker hmm I was just thinking about you saying 'certain' and I wonder now about a slight wild idea .. optionally 'tag' a grf with one hex number thats only used to sort the multiplayer window .. lets say for example all vehicle grfs uses '1' and infrastructures is '2' so if someone wanted to try find vanilla maps first (no basecost/firs) they can tell the window to filter any post-tagged grfs to exclude such servers
08:41<drac_boy>might not have much uptake tho so :)
08:42<@planetmaker>any such categorization of NewGRFs is difficult... both automatic and manual ways have ways to fail
08:42<@planetmaker>NewGRFs are too complex to make this easy
08:43<@planetmaker>filtering for or filtering out a particular NewGRF (if you know the grfID), is relatively straight forward, though
08:43<@planetmaker>basically it's already done to some extend to show you which servers you have matching NewGRFs, which you are missing some (and which you have the wrong OpenTTD version for)
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08:51<drac_boy>anyway whats 'new' about disasters/etc? or am I just dreaming? :P
08:52*drac_boy is just wondering about peter's remark
08:52<drac_boy>hi samu, anything new to fix?
08:54<Samu>hmm nop
08:57<Samu>did you see that?
09:01<@planetmaker>so, peter1138 any wishes on settings and NewGRFs for 1.9.0-beta3 server?
09:01<@planetmaker>(or anyone?)
09:03<@planetmaker>ups :P
09:05<drac_boy>silly question .. would you not mind seeing random wagons showing up with brakecabs on them or would you had rather liked the grf had a parameter to disable that for your own gameplay preference?
09:06<@planetmaker>I would not want a NewGRF with break cabs
09:06<@planetmaker>or some which disabled them via parameter, if needed
09:06<drac_boy>so a parameter then
09:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
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09:11*drac_boy goes back to splashing sprites now
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09:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on issue #63: footer/header of
09:23<Samu>going to upload v9 of my ai, i nearly forgot about it
09:24<@peter1138>Samu, yes but I didn't like it much :p
09:24<@peter1138>Samu, I found a case I didn't handle which made me LOL. I don't know if you handle it.
09:24<Samu>uh ooh
09:24<@peter1138>If either of the two adjacent tiles is an actual *river* slope, it would block that...
09:24<@peter1138>As there's not track on them.
09:25<@peter1138>So the river flowed into the side of a house.
09:25<Samu>ships dont walk on river
09:25<@peter1138>That actually doesn't affect you because it's not navigable, but it does in my interpretation of it.
09:25<Samu>there are no tracks
09:25<Samu>or ... wait
09:25<@peter1138>Yeah, I want it to be a "towns don't block rivers" thing.
09:26<@peter1138>It looks better though :D
09:26<Samu>show me a screenshot
09:26<@peter1138>I don't have one.
09:27<Samu>i see
09:27<Samu>or at least I think I see what you mean
09:28<Samu>gonna force a scenario with that
09:28<Samu>to see it happening
09:28<Samu>but first, let me upload v9
09:28<@peter1138>Well, easy to build a river.
09:37<Samu>so, locks are making it hard
09:37<Samu>possible locks
09:43<Samu>is this what u meant peter1138 ?
09:43<Samu>lock couldn't be build there anyway
09:44<Samu>but it looks odd
09:44<Samu>must think
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09:46<Samu>I confirm, it also affects mine, but...
09:48<Samu>even if I prevent town from growing in front of a river
09:48<Samu>i wouldn't still be able to build a lock
09:48<Samu>so i dunno what to say in this case
09:49<@peter1138>I'd forget about it.
09:49<@peter1138>It only applies to my version specifically because of its intention.
09:50<Samu>it happens on my version too
09:50<@peter1138>That's up to you if you care.
09:50<Samu>unless this other patch
09:51<Samu>let me get it
09:52<Samu>if it's combined with this one, then rivers won't end facing a tile with a corner
09:53<Samu>yep, combining both patches
09:53<Samu>prevents that
09:53<@peter1138>Ok but I don't think that one is likely either.
09:57<Samu>tile t_dm is enforced to be flat
09:57<Samu>even at sea level
10:02<Samu>let me see what kind of checks do I do to t_2dm
10:03<Samu> if (IsValidTile(t_2dm)) {
10:03<Samu> if (!IsTileFlat(t_2dm)) return false;
10:05<Samu>both t_dm and t_2dm are forced to be flat
10:06<Samu>means that I'm always ensuring a water connection towards a possible lock tile at the lower part
10:07<Samu>funny that I thought of this already
10:07<Samu>i should haven known that I had taken care of it
10:07<Samu>i keep forgetting things i do
10:09<Samu>with both patches combined
10:09<Samu>the flat tile is fully water
10:09<Samu>no house is ever built there
10:10<Samu>which means, passages is possible if a lock is built afterwards, after town growth
10:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on issue #63: footer/header of
10:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
10:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
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10:33<Samu>just hide the server from being listed
10:33<Samu>problem solved
10:34<Samu>ah no
10:36<Samu>will there ever be a matchmaking system on openttd?
10:37<Samu>fill in your criteria! i wanna join a game with x * y map size, abc landscape, started at max, n years ago, etc...
10:38<Samu>and then master servers points u to the right server for u to join
10:39<nielsm>that's not matchmaking, that's just server filtering
10:40<nielsm>matchmaking would imply multiple players independently indicating wanting to play, a central service collecting those intents, and the central service then provisioning a new server instance for those players to join
10:40<nielsm>and during the game possibly run a GS rating the players' performance and recording that in a ranking system to later set up players with other players of similar skill
10:42<nielsm>and well, with the current number of public servers, it's not difficult to browse them them all manually
10:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7279: Fix #7062: Remove ship max order distance.
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10:47<nielsm>anyone want to join one of the beta3 servers and play the game for a change? :)
10:48<@peter1138>Maybe in 2 hours.
10:50*_dp_ wants to set up a beta3 server and forget about this game for a while xD
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10:53*nielsm decides to actually use the danish translation for once and then fix poor strings along the way
11:01<@peter1138>Ok, I think I need another bread maker.
11:01<nielsm>actually, I should also not be starting/joining a game right now, my laundry room time is coming up
11:06<nielsm>I tried connecting to the openttdcoop nightly server, and downloading the map timed out...
11:06<nielsm>appears to have crashed now even
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11:28<FLHerne>nielsm: I'd be interested in that sometime, ping me if you start that :-)
11:28<@planetmaker>well... an oom crash. So nothing to worry about (here).
11:31<@peter1138>4096^2 map? :p
11:33<Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> anyone want to [...] play the game for a change? :) <-- what blasphemy is this? :p
11:33<nielsm>let's save the 4096 maps for when kdtree or similar is in :P
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11:34<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to "don't play more than 1024^2 in MP"?
11:39<Samu>peter1138, there are some ship max order distance ai/gs script functions
11:41<@planetmaker>who said 4096² on my servers? :P
11:43<FLHerne>"don't play more than 512^2 at any time" is probably better advice, just from a gameplay standpoint :P
11:43<@peter1138>Nice bit of duplication there.
11:46<Samu> /* static */ uint ScriptVehicle::GetMaximumOrderDistance(VehicleID vehicle_id)
11:47<Samu> /* static */ uint ScriptEngine::GetMaximumOrderDistance(EngineID engine_id)
11:48<@peter1138>Yes, already go it, thanks.
11:55<_dp_>is it possible to set a max size for the widget?
11:56<_dp_>trying to make new cargo list with scrollbar not show ugly orange empty space
11:57<@planetmaker>_dp_, I don't think. And I'm not sure it makes sense for widgets which contain text: translations, font size and GUI settings might change that
11:57<@planetmaker>and the required space depending on client-side settings
11:57<@peter1138>This would be a number-of-rows limit.
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>you need to handle automatic line breaks then
11:59<@peter1138>There's no line breaks.
11:59<_dp_>peter1138, hmm, but it has SetCount(_sorted_standard_cargo_specs_size) already
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>that's not a contradiction :p
11:59<@peter1138>_dp_, that sets the capacity of the scrollbar, yes, not the widget-size.
12:00<Samu>what's the opposite of main_track_1 && main_track_2
12:00<Samu>they're bools
12:00<Samu>!main_track1 || !_main_track2 ?
12:01<Samu>!(main_track_1 && main_track_2)
12:01<_dp_>so, how to set widget size then?
12:02<Samu>im trying to code peter style
12:02<Samu>no identation
12:03<_dp_>Samu, !a||!b and !(a&&b) are equivalent
12:04<Samu>cool, ty
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause>DeMorgan to the rescue!
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12:16<milek7>vcpkg is some microsoft NIH?
12:18<milek7>why we need another package manager
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12:23<nielsm>can you name a package manager that actually runs in the environment vcpkc does?
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>microsoft is the very definition of NIH?
12:32<@planetmaker>what's "NIH"?
12:32<nielsm>not invented here
12:32<@planetmaker>oh, I see
12:32<@planetmaker>"national institute of health" didn't quite fit :P
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, just look at \ vs /
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>and that was what? 40 years ago?
12:34<nielsm>you know the story behind that is someone at MS demanded that / be the option character for commands and not - and so it could not be the path separator
12:34<milek7>CP/M is probably responsible for \
12:35<nielsm>the earliest dos versions had a config.sys flag to control whether the option character was / or -
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: but that is also a form of NIH
12:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7279: Fix #7062: Remove ship max order distance.
12:41<_dp_>and damn scrollbar can't work with non-resizing widgets coz it uses resize_y as row height :(
12:42<@peter1138>Well it can, but...
12:42<nielsm>you have to do a bit more on your own
12:42<@peter1138>Actually are you sure about that?
12:42<_dp_>peter1138, it crashes when I do SetResize(0, 0) so yeah...
12:42<@peter1138>Scrollbars don't have a row height.
12:42<nielsm>the resizing I did in the framerate window manually configures the scrollbar
12:43<milek7>ok, vcpkg looks unique in that all portfiles are in cmake
12:43<nielsm>setting max, visible, and current top
12:43<@peter1138>They have a capacity, a row count, and a position.
12:43<milek7>though i think using eg. sh would be more portable with other systems
12:43<nielsm>vcpkg is not intended to be portable, it's intended to work with visual c++
12:43<nielsm>hence the name
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: i'm not following your reasoning
12:44<nielsm>unless you argue that microsoft should port cl to non-windows systems as well
12:44<milek7>and it should be aware of pkg-config
12:44<milek7>"Vcpkg helps you manage C and C++ libraries on Windows, Linux and MacOS. "
12:44<milek7>looks like trying to be portable
12:45<@peter1138>Could an icon work for "show catchment"?
12:45<@peter1138>Or is that too vague? :/
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: got something more specific in mind than "any random icon"?
12:45<@peter1138>Nope :(
12:46<@peter1138>I'm wondering about just a # sign :p
12:46<@peter1138>And a tooltip lol
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that would work :p
12:46<_dp_>peter1138, it does this->SetCapacity(((int)nwid->current_y - padding) / (int)nwid->resize_y);
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>what size are the toolbar icons? 20x20? 32x32?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>i think anything below that would be a random character that nobody would associate with "catchment area"
12:47<_dp_>peter1138, so don't have row height but they use resize_y instead
12:48<@peter1138>Oh, right, so when you resize it it automatically gets the correct capacity. Sorry.
12:49<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it's not a toolbar icon.
12:49<@peter1138>But I can't think of anything that would represent catchment area anyway
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: so size more like the train/truck/whatever icons?
12:50<@peter1138>Shift-click on Location button?
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>nobody would ever find that.
12:50<@peter1138>Oh, but hmm.
12:50<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, that sorta size.
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: maybe a dot with a circle around it? (sorta like a bullseye?)
12:51<_dp_>also crashes with SetResize(0, 1000) btw
12:52<_dp_>so yeah, scrollbars assume a lot about widgets :(
12:55<milek7>eh, it tries to do something obviously windows-specific
12:56<milek7>i'm supposed to if() vcpkg only for windows, and use other dependecies for linux, or what?
12:56<@peter1138>milek7, ..........
12:56<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, heh, that actually worked. Switched me to a truefont font, of course :p
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: add the glyph to openttd.grf :)
12:57<@peter1138>Yeah, then OpenGFX can have 5 missing sprites :D
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>do we meanwhile use openttd.grf as fallback for missing sprites?
12:58<@peter1138>It gives a warning but otherwise seems to work okay.
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>better than having random oversized ? everywhere :p
12:59<@peter1138>Way better than the purple/black chequerboard that everything uses these days.
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13:01<@peter1138>Bottom button row, or top button row (in the caption)?
13:01<@peter1138>Probably bottom.
13:04<@peter1138>Hmm, tempting to draw a double-size version while I'm at it :p
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>i feel that might escalate in the wrong direction :p
13:07<@peter1138>Well it would show how it's meant to done.
13:07<@peter1138>Urgh at zbase :/
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13:10<@peter1138>Can be quite hard to see the overlay...
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>that's what we have the X button for?
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>i should be heading out...
13:14<milek7>peter1138: what?
13:14<@peter1138>milek7, I was going to say it's only for Windows but apparently you found something that says that's not the case.
13:15<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess I can't use U+2299, as then almost no TTF font will work :/
13:15<milek7>it looks that only some packages works on linux
13:15<@peter1138>Isn't typeface fallback supposed to be per-glyph?
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: how is that a problem, we don't really need vcpgk on linux. but we needed soemthing for windows
13:18<milek7>i hoped to use it in other project to get rid of platform if() in cmake
13:18<milek7>but apparently it's not done yet
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>that happens...
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>but you could nag them about including the packages that you need, maybe they help you?
13:21<_dp_>ok, I've had enough of scrollbars, so I'll just leave it here and hope someone can make a proper pr like that %)
13:22<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Isn't typeface fallback supposed to be per-glyph? <-- iirc we reject fonts before any fallback can be established. but i have no clue how it actually works
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>maybe we should relax that a bit
13:23<@peter1138>_dp_, I gave up trying to make the livery window behave like it used to, and only have a scrollbar in groups view...
13:23<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, should do, it's the cause of that "ignoring fonts" "bug"
13:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #64: Fix 7038a71: link to changelog was incorrectly pointing to the CDN directly
13:25<TrueBrain>bad andy .. ^^ :P
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13:25<Eddi|zuHause>it might also help if we keep a fallback font around even if people use the sprite font, for when they join servers which have chinese characters in the town names and stuff
13:25<_dp_>peter1138, I ended up extending scrollbar to the max since I can't limit it:
13:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] PeterN approved pull request #64: Fix 7038a71: link to changelog was incorrectly pointing to the CDN directly
13:26<@planetmaker> <-- catchment area?
13:26<@peter1138>Oh wow, that does look bad with the supersize GUI :/
13:26<TrueBrain>tnx peter1138; that was quick :D
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that looks somewhat horrible
13:26<@planetmaker>it does
13:27<@planetmaker>at least the rhs one
13:27<@peter1138>planetmaker, oh... sorry!
13:27<@peter1138>planetmaker, the button goes in windows, not toolbars.
13:27<_dp_>peter1138, yeah, and that's improved version already
13:27<@planetmaker>I probably should have read more than one word :P
13:27<@peter1138>So needs to be just black.
13:28<@planetmaker>makes it.. easier :)
13:28<@planetmaker>but needs another symbol then... station in black only... hm
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13:28<@peter1138>u2299 looks... okay.
13:29<@peter1138>Not quite the right fit, but works for me.
13:29<@planetmaker>hm, a glyph?
13:29<@planetmaker>those are indeed
13:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #64: Fix 7038a71: link to changelog was incorrectly pointing to the CDN directly
13:29<@peter1138>yeah, those other sprites are text.
13:29<_dp_>hm, just noticed scrollbar is already extending in the master so I ended up doing nothing... great xD
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, the train/truck/whatever sprites are also glyphs
13:29<@peter1138>This one probably should be because otherwise with the separate gui/font scaling it won't match.
13:30<@planetmaker>it needs to be, yes
13:30<@planetmaker>though... is the border there, too?
13:30<@planetmaker>the *corner*?
13:30<@planetmaker>anyhow... no harm in making it a glyph
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: you mean the resize button?
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13:31<Eddi|zuHause>never wondered about that one :)
13:31<_dp_>that's how it looks in beta3:
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13:32<Eddi|zuHause>unrelated: the train/truck/whatever icons could use some vertical centering?
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, gtg
13:33<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, can't, it's a glyph.
13:34<@peter1138>_dp_, yup.
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i mean, on widget level, not on sprite level
13:34<@peter1138>Yes I know.
13:34<@peter1138>It's text.
13:35<@peter1138>Text is always drawn from the top.
13:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... ok, i see how that might be a problem
13:35<@peter1138>Also I'm tempted to revert the gui/font scaling separation, it's causing issues.
13:35<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, we'd have to duplicate the sprites to use them as ... sprites.
13:35<@peter1138>They're used as text in station signs.
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: that doesn't sound like the right approach
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13:36<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: more like the sprite font needs some hinting on what the writing line is, and the font rendering engine needs to take that into account to align it
13:37<_dp_>peter1138, normal size is too small, I'd rather have a slightly ugly game than constantly missing those tiny buttons :(
13:38<_dp_>smth like 1.5x would be perfect actually
13:38<@planetmaker>OpenTTD needs font and GUI scaling in non-integer multiples of 1x
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13:38<@planetmaker>I agree with 1.5
13:38<@peter1138>Sure but our sprite scaling as no capability for that.
13:38<@planetmaker>which actually is 2.25x the area
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>sqrt(2) ;)
13:39<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, dow does that make anything easier? xD
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>does not :p
13:40<@peter1138>Basically all the power-of-two scaling would have to be replaced.
13:40<@peter1138>I welcome a PR :D
13:41<@peter1138>Of course, at that point, maybe we're doing it at the wrong level.
13:41<@peter1138>You get scaling for free with something like OpenGL ;)
13:42<nielsm>okay I'm done with laundry and food, and going to resume playing on #openttdcoop.nightly :)
13:42<_dp_>or we can wait till everyone switches to 4k monitors and problem will solve itself xD
13:44*peter1138 downloads all the NewGRFs...
13:45<@peter1138>Mine's the only ipv6 beta3? Hmm.
13:46<@peter1138>I'm sure the zoomed-out wind noise is 1) too loud 2) too frequent
13:47<@peter1138>Error: Chips custom docks must be loaded after chips station set.
13:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #63: footer/header of
13:47<@peter1138>Is that still a thing? o_O
13:47<TrueBrain>really not sure what you are seeing there planetmaker; I don't see anything wrong on the servers site ..
13:47<TrueBrain>but given the description is very short and no screenshots, I had to guess a bit in my reply :D
13:49<_dp_>TrueBrain, servers page is in the menu of, looks really weird when you click on it and menu disappears
13:49<TrueBrain>_dp_: ah, is that what was meant. I really did not pick up on that :D
13:49<TrueBrain>such minor additions to issues really help :P
13:50<TrueBrain>but yeah, that is new infrastructure vs old. Not much I want to do about that currently
13:50<TrueBrain>when the MSU moves to the new infrastructure, it should be fixed, I guess
13:50<@peter1138>Oh right, cargo-dist is not on :(
13:50<_dp_>TrueBrain, tbh whole page looks broken to me
13:50<@peter1138>I can't play without that now, just building random routes and letting it all link up is my style.
13:51<TrueBrain>_dp_: define "broken"
13:51<_dp_>TrueBrain, disappearing menu, empty footer, logo linking non-existing website
13:51<nnyby>also clicking the header of that site takes you to which is kinda empty
13:51<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, also a completely empty footer
13:51<TrueBrain>_dp_: footers are empty EVERYWHERE :P
13:51<TrueBrain>so I wonder why only the server page make you see that :D
13:51<TrueBrain>we only removed it on the main page now
13:51<@peter1138>Hmm, CHIPS stations are way too manual.
13:51<TrueBrain>also empty footer :D
13:51<TrueBrain>haha :)
13:51<_dp_>TrueBrain, footer is fine on
13:51<@planetmaker>no such separate footer on main, screenshots, developers,...
13:52<TrueBrain>planetmaker: the difference is on subdomain level
13:52<TrueBrain>bananas, security, servers, .. all the old HTML pages have this empty footer
13:52<TrueBrain>www is ported, so we fixed those minor details too :)
13:52<TrueBrain>logo linking non-existing, let me see ..
13:52<TrueBrain>LOL .. where does it redirect to? Lol!
13:52<TrueBrain>see, that is a bug :D
13:53<TrueBrain>what else was there to unfold ..
13:53<TrueBrain>no menu, yeah, new subdomain
13:53<TrueBrain>guess it looks too much the same
13:53<TrueBrain>for me, it is like saying that the menu disappears ifyou go to the wiki :D
13:53<TrueBrain>not sure that is an easy fix ..
13:54<TrueBrain>something simple one can do to make that less weird? (Compare it to clicking on Community)
13:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7254: Codechange: introduce a few unit tests
13:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas closed pull request #7254: Codechange: introduce a few unit tests
13:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #63: footer/header of
13:58<TrueBrain>anything I missed?
13:59<TrueBrain>and please PLEASE be more descriptive in issues :) This guessing game is fun, but we could do more efficient :P
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14:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7254: Codechange: introduce a few unit tests
14:02<nielsm> I want to try this irl :P
14:04<TrueBrain>okay, fixed most issues just mentioned
14:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed issue #63: footer/header of
14:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #63: footer/header of
14:08<TrueBrain>and tnx _dp_ , for specifying "broken" :D Let me know if you find more issues!
14:08<TrueBrain>(and also tnx nnyby :))
14:08<Samu>I'm re-re-rewritting prevent town growth from blocking ships a 4th or 5th time
14:09<Samu>can't make it simpler than that
14:10<Samu>comments may need editing
14:10<Samu>but the code
14:10<Samu>is... shortest i can do
14:12<Samu>passed the assert test, which means it works correctly
14:13<Samu>tile_1, tile_2 don't exist anymore
14:13<Samu>need to comment that out
14:19<Samu>TrackStatusToTrackBits(GetTileTrackStatus(... can be simplified if I can call a function that is on ship_cmd.cpp
14:20<Samu>is it worth doing it?
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14:27<Beerbelott>Is there a possibility to generate a new game based on a downloaded heightmap on a dedicated server?
14:30<Samu>now with GetTileShipTrackStatus
14:30<Beerbelott>my bad, found
14:32<Samu>can't be static, right?
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14:34<Samu>i'm updating anyway
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14:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships
14:42<Samu>you know what? the voronoi "failure" to match master, I've been thinking about it
14:42<Samu>it is deleting the just created town with 0 population
14:43<Samu>removing bridgues requires it to calc the closest town to get who owns it
14:43<Samu>it actually makes sense that it gets the closest town "other than self"
14:43<Samu>do you see what I mean?
14:44<Samu>it's not a failure, it's actually solving 2 problems in 1 go
14:45<Samu>it's solving this
14:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7278: Fix 195fd0dc60: Sprite cache must still be cleared when using bitmap fonts.
14:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7278: Fix 195fd0dc60: Sprite cache must still be cleared when using bitmap fonts.
15:04<Samu>kdtree could do similar
15:24<nielsm>a k-d tree is actually not very good at getting the 2nd or 3rd (or nth) nearest, only the absolutely nearest
15:24<nielsm>or "any one approximately nearby" if you use an inaccurate lookup algorithm
15:24<@peter1138>I don't think the voronoi map is either?
15:25<nielsm>but then you won't know if what rank it is in distance
15:36<_dp_>k-d can find k-nearest just fine
15:37<_dp_>unlike voronoi
15:40<nielsm>it can, but eventually it'll just degenerate into an inefficient quicksort
15:41<_dp_>nielsm, well, sure, there is no beating quicksort in sorting
15:43<_dp_>nielsm, when k ~= n there isn't much point talking about k-nearest in general
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16:03<_dp_>oh, and I just understood why that voronoi initialization looked wrong
16:03<_dp_>why do all that weird stuff when you can just bfs it in like 5 lines
16:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
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16:26<Samu>the town generator creates towns, and before they're added to voronoi, it is ensured it has more than 0 population
16:26<Samu>the code that deletes 0 population towns will use CalcClosestTown
16:26<Samu>but since this town is not yet on voronoi
16:27<Samu>... english
16:27<Samu>CalcClosestTown won't see it
16:28<Samu>it uses "outdated" data
16:28<Samu>outdated with a purpose
16:29<Samu>let me point to code
16:30<Samu>could kdtree do something similar?
16:31<Samu>or kdtree is not a database?
16:33<_dp_>Samu, I meant BuildVoronoiDiagram and dozen of functions used by it
16:33<_dp_>Samu, town hold is separate issue and can be done with any data structure
16:38<Samu>must investigate how kdtree do its stuff
16:38<nielsm>you should start with the wikipedia page then
16:38<nielsm>if you want to know how it works
16:39<_dp_>found this article recently
16:39<_dp_>didn't read it fully but looks good
16:41<Samu>"That is O(n) complexity."
16:41<Samu>not english
16:44<_dp_>that's computer science :p
16:44<nielsm>okay, two things: 1) got a desync playing beta3 on the #openttdcoop.nightly server
16:44<nielsm>2) emergency netsave did not work as intended, it got me a save copy of the title game
16:45<LordAro>oh dear
16:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened issue #7280: Emergency netsave on desync saves title game
16:48<_dp_>how did it even do that
16:48<_dp_>oh, it probably loads title game and then saves it
16:49<Samu>that article doesn't tell how are the points added
16:50<@peter1138>Maybe I blew up ships :p
16:50<Samu>"How do we split the points?" :|
16:50<Samu>i want an article that goes about "How do we add the points to kdtree"
16:50<nielsm>Samu: the article assumes you know what a binary search tree is and how you construct one
16:51<nielsm>and uses that basis to explain how to construct a multi-dimensional search tree
16:52<@peter1138>Probably just the usual NewGRF desyncs though.
16:52<Samu>instant ais?
16:54<@peter1138>LordAro, well... buggy newgrf. Hmm.
16:54<@peter1138>It's annoying that that is even possible :(
16:55<@planetmaker>buggy NewGRF?
16:55<_dp_>yeah, how do you even bug a newgrfs to that extent?
16:55<_dp_>shouldn't it run on vm and have same bugs both sides?
16:56<@planetmaker>There's FIRS. And IronHorse as the complex ones. Maybe FISH
16:56<@planetmaker>I could turn on the desync debugging...
16:56<_dp_>though I remember some bug in cl that crashed ecs
16:56<@peter1138>_dp_, usually means some data that gets cached is different depending on circumstances.
16:57<milek7>how are binary releases on mac generally done? (not necessarily about ottd)
16:57<milek7>static linking, or including .so with app, or user installing necessary dependencies?
16:57<@peter1138>_dp_, so it's not a crash, but it results in different game-state.
16:57<nielsm>combination of static linking and including non-system shared libraries in the app bundle
16:58<@peter1138>Difficult to find because you only have the one state locally.
16:58<_dp_>peter1138, so you mean it's a vm bug basically?
16:58<@peter1138>If it was an actual VM, that'd be nice :/
16:59<@planetmaker>peter1138, and nielsm you wanna continue on the beta3 server? Then I can enable desync debugging server-side. And we might have the logs tomorrow... heading for bed myself now soonish, though
16:59<nielsm>GRF programming really falls into the "esoteric language" category
16:59<@planetmaker>if no-one is going to continue there... I might enable it only tomorrow
17:00<nielsm>I'm going to bed very soon
17:00<@peter1138>I'm still there.
17:00<@peter1138>But yeah, maybe not that much longer.
17:00<@peter1138>(When it gets to 2am, I'll change my mind)
17:00<@planetmaker>enabling means: save, enable desync debugging, loading the saved game so that initial state is known
17:01<@planetmaker>and spamming the HDD with... loads of logs and saves
17:01<Samu>gonna experiment inserting towns later
17:01<@peter1138>planetmaker, have you got space? :D
17:02<@planetmaker>7G space on the VM. Should suffice
17:03<@peter1138>Whether it'll help is another matter...
17:04<@planetmaker>if it happens quickly, it's possible to replay it. If it takes long... it's a PITA
17:05<@planetmaker>nielsm, did you do anything in between to your settings before you re-joined?
17:10<Samu>oops, i broke kdtree :|
17:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened issue #7281: Group selection not enabled in livery window when creating first group
17:10<nielsm>planetmaker no
17:10<Samu>i give up
17:11<LordAro>today on "Samu randomly plays with something he doesn't understand"
17:11<Samu>nielsm, can you do the equivalent of this on your kdtree?
17:13<Samu>to solve the bridge issue
17:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7254: Codechange: introduce a few unit tests
17:23<Samu>what is this error?
17:24<Samu>windows builds, linux fail
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17:25<LordAro>linux errors are a bit unclear
17:25<LordAro>/home/vsts/work/1/s/src/ship.h:61:18: warning: inline function 'GetTileShipTrackStatus' is not defined [-Wundefined-inline]
17:25<LordAro>/home/vsts/work/1/s/src/ship.h:61:18: warning: inline function 'GetTileShipTrackStatus' is not defined [-Wundefined-inline]
17:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
17:27<@planetmaker>why do my trains complain that they cannot find a way to a station when they wait in front of it (for longer time, but yes)?
17:28<@planetmaker>they should only, if there is no path...
17:28<Samu>how come it's not defined in Linux but it is in Windows?
17:29<@peter1138>Train is lost messages?
17:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7059: Town name language choice affects number of towns / world population
17:30<Samu>gonna remove inline
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>time for NoTowns?
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: they turn around at red signal?
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: and because now they're facing a dead end, they throw a message and turn back?
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>(personally, i always disable turning around this way, because it never really solves any problems)
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>(or, the kind of problems that it would solve are not appearing in my network designs anyway)
17:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships
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17:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships
17:44<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, maybe... but it faced still the right direction when I looked
17:45<@planetmaker>by default it should be off :)
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure about that...
17:46<@planetmaker>by my defaults
17:46<@planetmaker>openttd defaults... it probably is on
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17:46<Eddi|zuHause>also, there might have been changes in that piece of code
17:49<Samu>i created a server
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17:49<@peter1138>There was a timing change.
17:50<@peter1138>Maybe it's still not right?
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18:22<@planetmaker>my trains wait relatively long. Station in question is Diemelrode Meadows.
18:24<@planetmaker>anyway... good night :)
18:48<FLHerne>LordAro: /ignore doesn't take long
18:51<LordAro>FLHerne: i dislike incomplete output
18:52<LordAro>besides, the linux failure messages on azure are genuinely a mess and hard to understand
19:20<Samu>gonna try implement a fix for
19:21<Samu>i just won't have a reliable way to reproduce the bug though
19:43<Samu>is it possible for towns that generated with 0 population to have bridges?
20:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
20:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] claman commented on issue #61: Does the website have a multilingual plan?
20:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7282: Fix #7274 #7043: Don't remove bridges when generating towns with 0 population
20:17<Beerbelott>Waaaah, I'm getting stuck on something soooo minor
20:17<Beerbelott>I'm trying to test changes to the codebase on a dedicated server binary w/ a stable 1.8.0 client
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>you cannot connect to changed servers with a stable binary
20:18<Beerbelott>I'm getting stck on the file which is way different between 1.8.0 & master, and ofc injection of (modified) .ottdrev does not work
20:19<Beerbelott>What would be the values in that if 1.8.0 was on master?
20:19<Samu>commit checker wants commas
20:19<Samu>ok i'll do that
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>you must make your client from the same git revision as the server
20:20<Beerbelott>I just need to inject a proper .ottdrev server-side
20:20<Beerbelott>I am getting stuck on the awaited format
20:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7282: Fix #7274 #7043: Don't remove bridges when generating towns with 0 population
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>this will never work
20:23<Samu>omg are you kidding me
20:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7282: Fix #7274 #7043: Don't remove bridges when generating towns with 0 population
20:25<Samu>don't tell me it also wants a period at the end of the line
20:26<Samu>finally, it passed !
20:37<Samu>79.786 ms
20:37<Samu>I win :p
20:42<Beerbelott>Eddi|zuHause: Well yeah u were right, I was able to hack in my way w/ a nightly release
20:43<Beerbelott>but ofc newly introduced commands do not pass validation client-side... I'll have to properly compile a corresponding client...
20:43*Beerbelott sighs
20:43<+glx>client and server must be the exact same version
20:44<nnyby>Beerbelott: it's pretty easy to compile the stable version: git checkout 1.8.0
20:45<Beerbelott>Nah I introduced changes on top the master branch (no point in introducing stuff on top of an old release)
20:45<Beerbelott>I just needed to connect to my test dedicated server to test those features, so that'll be the other way 'round
20:45<Beerbelott>basically I need to compile a client, whatever versio nanyway
20:46<Beerbelott>I wanted to avoid the pain of doing that winbooze thing.....
20:46<nnyby>ohh ur on windows. that changes everything good luck :P
20:46<Beerbelott>for the client side yeah
20:47<Beerbelott>the server side is GNU/Linux, conveniently being built/tested in a container
20:47<Beerbelott>A world of pain awaits me... Well, that'll be for tomorrow
20:48<Beerbelott>I could try that in a VM
20:48<Beerbelott>well anyway thx for the tips c ya 'round
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22:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
22:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
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22:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
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