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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-02-27

---Logopened Wed Feb 27 00:00:01 2019
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01:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #6980: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType
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02:38<andythenorth>coal tar -> carbon black -> tyre plant?
02:41*andythenorth ever moe detailed cargos :P
02:45<andythenorth>I could split up steel
02:45<andythenorth>train set authors are gonna hate me
02:50<andythenorth>"Oil country tubular goods" is a nice cargo
03:01<andythenorth>I could split up scrap metal too
03:02*andythenorth very ideas
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03:06<andythenorth>so peter1138 when are we doing pipeline transport type?
03:06<andythenorth>it was ruled out before "because it's uninteresting"
03:06<andythenorth>but all those people are now playing F! so eh
03:06<andythenorth>turns it they like it more than OpenTTD :P
03:17<andythenorth>dunno how to do a transport type with no vehicles
03:17<andythenorth>I worked it out once, but forgot
03:18<andythenorth>pipes, conveyors, ski-lifts
03:30<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> it was ruled out before "because it's uninteresting" <-- who ever said that?
03:56<andythenorth>maybe it was Eddi? o_O
04:13<andythenorth>why does the map jump when I windowshade minimap?
04:14<andythenorth>oh it's the scrollwheel crap
04:14*andythenorth turns that off
04:16<@peter1138>andythenorth, if it's a bug, report it.
04:16<andythenorth>no it's the intended behaviour
04:16<andythenorth>map moves if I scroll
04:16<andythenorth>and I was scrolling accidentally
04:18<@peter1138>Urgh, redditors...
04:18<@peter1138>Even when you point it out to them ;p
04:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that is unique to reddit :p
04:19<andythenorth>yes but
04:19<andythenorth>reddit constantly surprises me
04:19<andythenorth>how nice it all is
04:20<andythenorth>when I first encountered reddit, it was pretty similar to encyclopedia dramatica
04:20<andythenorth>only, not funny
04:20<andythenorth>it was a sewer
04:20<andythenorth>maybe I just found the 4chan, troll-fascist and genuine fascist parts :P
04:20<@peter1138>Some sections are terrible.
04:21<andythenorth>sections / people /s
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04:28<andythenorth>so Coke Oven Byproduct Gas doesn't travel in trains
04:28<andythenorth>needs pipes :P
04:28<andythenorth>I could make a PIPE grf, they do work, hax on trains
04:28<@peter1138>New transport types, eh?
04:29<@peter1138>pipelines, powerlines, something lines?
04:32<andythenorth>continous transport
04:32<andythenorth>tile transport
04:37<andythenorth>we have 64 cargos now
04:37<andythenorth>we could transport logic cargos
04:38<andythenorth>and have logic industries
04:38<andythenorth>16 in / 16 out, 256 registers
04:38<andythenorth>we can now model solid state circuits?
04:39<andythenorth>or even just circuits
04:39<andythenorth>valve industry :P
04:40<andythenorth>magic smoke cargo
04:43<@peter1138>Pipelines with pumping stations / boosters / repeaters ...
04:43<@peter1138>Meh, no, too much like simcity.
04:45<andythenorth>well TTD is too much like Railroad Tycoon
04:45<andythenorth>but eh, does it matter? :P
04:45<@peter1138>Erm, that's the same genre :p
04:45<andythenorth>yah yah
04:45<andythenorth>but what would be interesting to implement?
04:46<@peter1138>2014-03-15 19:44 Sergii Pylypenko │ │ o │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ Android patches
04:46<@peter1138>Maybe that.
04:47<andythenorth>tiles that can just move cargo from one of the 4 edges to another edge?
04:47<andythenorth>how about this?
04:47*andythenorth coded that in Flash once, with trains
04:47<@peter1138>Basically, maybe with trackdirs :p
04:47<andythenorth>it was a promo game for the release of Railroad Tycoon 3 :P
04:47<andythenorth>lifetime dream achieved
04:48<@peter1138>Infrastructure sharing/subsidiaries.
04:48<@peter1138>That was most fun, back in the day.
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>i would probably do pumping stations which spawn vehicles and at the other end of the pipeline they get destroyed automatically
04:49<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, that strikes me as a "reuse rail tracks" type implementation.
04:50<andythenorth>let's do something new and game-breaking
04:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's the opposite of ships. with ships you're not building infrastructure but managing the vehicles, with pipes you're not building the vehicles but managing the infrastructure
04:50<andythenorth>and find all the problems
04:50<@peter1138>Ready for 1.9?
04:50<@peter1138>NRT doesn't break the game enough :/
04:51<andythenorth>NRT is same old same old
04:51<@peter1138>Ships are obviously vehicles though.
04:51<andythenorth>it's just 'moar'
04:51<@peter1138>pipelines... hmm.
04:51<andythenorth>pipes, ski-lifts
04:51<@peter1138>Unless you're talking internal mail system pipelines...
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>or transport tubes like in futurama
04:52<@peter1138>andythenorth, you can do that with road types :p
04:53<andythenorth>not really
04:53<andythenorth>the cableways have a fixed throughput per length of route
04:54<andythenorth>well...there are ones where the skips attach/detach from the haul cable
04:54<andythenorth>but they're boring, that's just NRT
04:56<andythenorth>I'm thinking of tiles than move n cargo per tick
04:56<andythenorth>from x inputs to y outputs
04:57<andythenorth>each outputs gets "sum(inputs) / num outputs"
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04:57<Eddi|zuHause2>i think the point of pipes would be that you have this transport type that is "brainless vehicles" that can't make any pathfinding choices, and thus you can only have lingle point to point lines
04:57<andythenorth>well with junctions that sum / divide
04:57<andythenorth>interesting things happen
04:57<Eddi|zuHause2>but at the same time you don't have to limit the capacity of the line with signals and stuff
04:57<andythenorth>it's possible to route 75% to A and 25% to B using two splitters
04:58<andythenorth>and recombining two streams to A
04:58<Eddi|zuHause2>if you want to have "junctions" you need to make intermediate pumping stations
04:58<andythenorth>nah, just check the trackbits
04:58<andythenorth>which ones are connected
04:59<andythenorth>not sure how flow direction would be controlled
04:59<Eddi|zuHause2>that'll destroy cargodist
04:59<andythenorth>cargodist is broken for gameplay anyway
04:59<Eddi|zuHause2>no it's not.
04:59<andythenorth>it only solves pax transfers
05:00<andythenorth>and the unintended consequences on pax overload are bad
05:00<@planetmaker>hm... pipes
05:00<andythenorth>also, assuming you're correct, can't we just infer an intermediate pumping station?
05:00<andythenorth>it has more than 1 trackbit out, so it's a station
05:01<andythenorth>so put it in the cdist graph
05:01<@planetmaker>pipes flow direction is controlled by pumps, I'd say. And throughput is a certain max. That's it
05:01<Eddi|zuHause2>no, just make the player put down a "station"... solves it nicely
05:01<andythenorth>that's incredibly boring
05:01<andythenorth>and will cause cargo acceptance and distribution
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05:01<andythenorth>unless you mean a "station"
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05:02<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you need two kinds of station.
05:02<andythenorth>I am struggling to imagine any of this working well with cdist
05:02<andythenorth>cdist is already absolutely useless for distributing cargo
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>one accept/deliver and one routing station
05:03<@peter1138>electricity lines, eh?
05:04<@peter1138>power infrastructure for your electrified railway...
05:04<@peter1138>Not quite cargo type :p
05:04<@planetmaker>routing station = waypoint
05:04<@peter1138>Hmm realistic power consumption ;)
05:04<@planetmaker>so wie factorio-ize the game? :P
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: sort of, but opposing to waypoints it would be a point where cargo is loaded/unloaded
05:05<andythenorth>my opposition to routing via stations is that it implies a whole new transport type, whilst doing nothing new
05:05<andythenorth>we already have that
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>don't bring that up
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>hacks like that don't help anything
05:06<andythenorth>each segment in that screenshot moves N units per tick
05:06<andythenorth>and routing is via stations
05:06<andythenorth>it's a PITA to build them
05:06<andythenorth>it's a nice proof of concept, "We don't need no stinking pipes"
05:07<andythenorth>but it's not very compelling
05:07<andythenorth>hmm, wonder what it would be like without depots? o_O
05:07<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't matter, i pretend that doesn't exist.
05:08<andythenorth>ok, so if you approach it from a white sheet of paper
05:08<andythenorth>and I approach it from using PIPE grf in half my games
05:08<andythenorth>where do we end up? o_O
05:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that thing fulfills pretty much none of the requirements i proposed earlier
05:08<andythenorth>I did play F! once, but the conveyors totally confused me
05:08<andythenorth>then some biters appeared
05:08<andythenorth>and the landscape is ugly
05:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's something completely different, and has nothing to do with my proposal
05:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: next we discuss subways and you link the fake underground grf as "proof of concept" which is neither a concept nor a proof
05:10<andythenorth>subway is solved, just needs signals in tunnels, and building on tunnel heads, and stations in tunnels
05:10<andythenorth>anyway, designs are better if there are very contrasting inputs
05:11<andythenorth>PIPE is obviously a hack, and I've pushed it as far as I can in games, and it's not satisfying
05:11<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: make a list of pre-requisites for a pipeline transport type?
05:13<@peter1138>Trams as metro would be more compact, but less satisfying :/
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's not subways. that's underground railway
05:13<@peter1138>What's the difference? :D
05:14<Eddi|zuHause>loads :p
05:15<Eddi|zuHause>but "underground tram" is definitely part of the solution
05:15<andythenorth>and under sea
05:16<andythenorth>eh, solved that, this just needs a custom sea sprite
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>the sea pipeline must get a flag to allow ship travel
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>(so effectively a "canal with pipeline")
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05:44<_dp_>rvs make better "pipes" :p
05:54<andythenorth>bauxite? o_O
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06:04<Eddi|zuHause>what does bauxite have to do with Ag?
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06:11<@planetmaker>both are a topic in crystalography
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06:14<andythenorth>for welding steel?
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>seems unnecessarily detailed
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06:15<andythenorth>it's a valid output from soda ash mine, which already exists
06:15<andythenorth>but the quantities :P
06:16<andythenorth>the game isn't great at handling tiny quantities :P
06:16<andythenorth>'tubes of flux'?
06:16<andythenorth>'tins of flux'?
06:17<andythenorth>'welding rods'
06:19<Beerbelott>Who was w/ me playing w/ -e & -g command-line switches combo yday?
06:19<Beerbelott>(Hello eve'one)
06:21<Beerbelott>Ah nice! Was searching for that on the OFTC website
06:22<Beerbelott>Hmmm HTTP 500 on
06:22<Beerbelott>Feb 26
06:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
06:23<@planetmaker>moin Beerbelott
06:24<@planetmaker>hm, 500 for the logs?
06:25<@planetmaker> works for me
06:25<Beerbelott>The root list yup, here too
06:25<@planetmaker>but 26th feb... strange
06:26<Beerbelott>Oh and btw, nginx 1.13.12 is outdated, better switch to either 1.14.2 or 1.15.9
06:29<LordAro>Beerbelott: debian very much takes the view of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
06:29<LordAro>which i imagine this server is running
06:33<@planetmaker>nginx actually runs on centos
06:34<Beerbelott>LordAro: ... or you use that
06:35<@planetmaker>if stock packages from a distro can be used, that is a bonus. Less hassle
06:36<Beerbelott>nginx official package on Debian wouldn't be mainline, be rather stable, and is currently providing 1.10 ;)
06:37<@planetmaker>I don't mind it not being mainline. But it receives security fixes when from the distro. *That* is important
06:37<@planetmaker>not bleeding edge or whatever nifty feature-I-don't-need-anyway
06:38<@planetmaker>I also know that many of the devzone / openttdcoop servers could need an overhaul. But as basically all other people who co-maintained the severs disappeared... it became tedious.
06:40<@planetmaker>as such I mostly only update them for security fixes
06:42<andythenorth>ain't broke
06:42<andythenorth>don't fix
06:43<@planetmaker>I'll be quite happy to share it with someone interested in doing OpenTTD stuff. Be it server. be it NewGRFs. AI. GS. whatever or any combination.
06:43<@planetmaker>it's not a viable way, andythenorth... some of the important VMs reach their EOL in <24 months
06:44<andythenorth>CentOS 6 dies?
06:44<@planetmaker>will become non-maintained. Servers without security-maintenance... not a good thing
06:44<andythenorth>presumably nothing is configuration managed?
06:45<andythenorth>it's all hand built?
06:45<@planetmaker>explain configuration-managed to me. Possibly some is actually
06:45<andythenorth>ansible / puppet / chef orchestration
06:45<@planetmaker>Just me not knowing how to use it. Ah. That at least used to be there
06:46<andythenorth>or at least key configuration settings deployed from a repo with a shell script :P
06:46<andythenorth>the key principle is that servers become disposable w.r.t configuration state
06:46<andythenorth>by scripting repeatable builds
06:46<andythenorth>so then we're only concerned about preserving content state (backups)
06:47<Beerbelott>planetmaker: that's configuration management indeed
06:47<Beerbelott>is there any or at least a way to list requirements for each machine planetmaker?
06:47<Beerbelott>I could give a hand I guess
06:49<Beerbelott>that's more my field than development anyway :p
06:50<andythenorth>responsible ops help is always valued :)
06:50<andythenorth>the bus factor is currently too high
06:51<@planetmaker>Beerbelott, not sure that exists... but I'm sure I could make a write-up
06:51<Beerbelott>planetmaker: or and trial-and-error basis seems fine to me
06:52<@planetmaker>well, it's mostly easy: one VM per task. And their task is pretty straight forward
06:52<Beerbelott>the idea being attempting to set-up a new farm inspired by an existing machine and see if it can do everything it's supposed to do ;)
06:52<Beerbelott>Oh OpenVZ
06:53<andythenorth>that looks like a service register :)
06:53<@planetmaker>that's the current running VMs on the coop server
06:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7284: Fix #7043, Fix #7274: Delete town owned bridge based on adjacent tile ownership, not nearest town.
06:54<@planetmaker>but not all are exactly needed, some are there for legacy reasons
06:55<@planetmaker>where the reasons have become... mostly obsolete
06:57<andythenorth>nuke from orbit :D
06:57<Beerbelott>Is OpenVZ a requirement? No LXC nor Docker around?
06:58<LordAro>Beerbelott: these systems long predate lxc or docker :p
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly certain it's just a "this wasn't around yet when we set this up"
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>and using them now amounts to a "let's rebuild this from scratch"
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>which, frankly, might be appropriate :)
07:01<Beerbelott>well OpenVZ is still existing
07:02<Beerbelott>Sometimes there are strong opinions about which technology to use, much like programming languages ;)
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07:02<Beerbelott>I prefer asking upfront, rather than risking starting another dull opinionated dialgue of the deaf
07:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7238: Codechange: Remove assert when trying to intersect two tile areas and…
07:03<@planetmaker>Beerbelott, OpenVZ is not a requirement. But I'm scared to update / change the hypervisor. The payment plan for the current server is quite good...
07:03<@planetmaker>Beerbelott, indeed, today, I probably would choose something in the lines of docker or so, myself. OpenVZ was a good choice 10 or 15 years ago at least
07:03<Beerbelott>planetmaker: Well nothing insuperable. Allow me a bit of time to catch up with my own experiments
07:04<Beerbelott>Ah well...
07:04<@planetmaker>changing the hypervisor probably would need a two-stage process: migrate everything to a 2nd server as-is (thus another openvz). And then setup the current one anew with new tech
07:04<Beerbelott>I like LXC principales very much, but hell I haven't got my head round with them yet
07:05<Beerbelott>planetmaker: let's do this them
07:05<andythenorth>planetmaker: are we preserving separate ottdc infra? :)
07:05<andythenorth>I am +/-0 but I wonder about combining with ottd
07:05<andythenorth>I guess coop games aren't really core ottd
07:06<Beerbelott>planetmaker: Debian-based host?
07:07<@planetmaker>given the support-time, centos is actually even preferrable.
07:07<@planetmaker>I don't have strong opinions about debian vs. centos, though
07:08<Beerbelott>I am more comfortable w/ the former though
07:08<Beerbelott>just experience
07:10<@planetmaker>Support timeframe is for servers a quite important one
07:10<@planetmaker>*especially* for the HV
07:10<Beerbelott>Well it's a mere matter of adapting deployment sequence to package managers and file locations
07:10<@planetmaker>you'd be surprised how many different OS are used in the different VMs currently. It's... astonishing :P
07:11<Beerbelott>I hope you have people qualified on CentOS to know about its quirks & bruises
07:11<@planetmaker>I have... me
07:11<@planetmaker>qualified? I can keep it running with duct-tape
07:13<Beerbelott>Ah I see CentOS also fell for systemd
07:14<@planetmaker>centos promises support till 2024. debian till 2022
07:14<@planetmaker>for current stable
07:15<Beerbelott>distro-upgrade is a thing u know
07:15<@planetmaker>(and no, ubunutu is out-of-question for anything. I've made bad experiences there...)
07:15<Beerbelott>expecially if all you have are containers
07:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7284: Fix #7043, Fix #7274: Delete town owned bridge based on adjacent tile ownership, not nearest town.
07:15<@planetmaker>distro-upgrade is a thing. Which can screw you quite nicely. And is nice, if it just works. But no guarantees there by anyone
07:15<Beerbelott>no worries Ubuntu history makes me laugh
07:16<Beerbelott>that's where config management kicks in, even for the host, right? :)
07:18<LordAro>Beerbelott: "fell for systemd" dude, it's what systemd was made for
07:18<LordAro>well, rhel, but still
07:19<Xaroth>planetmaker +1 from me for ansible as configuration management.. but I may be biased as somebody who regularly hangs out around Ansible.
07:19<Beerbelott>LordAro: Well I don't usually take much time investigating what the whereabouts of the plague is ;)
07:22<LordAro>ah, so more of an ideologist
07:22<Beerbelott>LordAro: personal opinion, which I won't develop here if u allow me
07:23<Beerbelott>(useless anyway)
07:23<Beerbelott>say I like sticking stability, accountability and UNIX principles
07:23<m3henry>Plan9 then?
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>from outer space?
07:24<@planetmaker> @ Beerbelott
07:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Town bridges store town indexes in map array.
07:24<Beerbelott>Woohoo, a map!
07:24<@planetmaker>I should have deleted the default spyder-header :P
07:25*andythenorth learning about grades of steel
07:25<andythenorth>and whether it can be split into more than 1 cargo :P
07:25<LordAro>peter1138: ...what changes are there there?
07:26<@peter1138>UTF8 BOM, I imagine.
07:26<@peter1138>(Also LOL HTML 4.01)
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07:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Town bridges store town indexes in map array.
08:03<@peter1138>m2 as town index will give jgrpp some fun :p
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08:32<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder where town bridge owner is used?
08:35<@planetmaker>upgrading bridges by company?
08:36<@planetmaker>or probably rather 'not upgrading'
08:36<@planetmaker>and when checking whether a tram track can be built over it
08:36<@planetmaker>but... it just needs info 'town'. Not which town
08:37<@peter1138>Yeah, that's either company or town, not a particular town.
08:37<@peter1138>Unless town-rating comes into it.
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>do roads store which town owns them?
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>i think they do, for town zone purposes?
08:38<@peter1138>Some roads do, yes.
08:38<@peter1138>Town-rating and probably zone.
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08:39<@planetmaker>he... zone purpose? Zone is just manhatten distance to centre and not stored anywhere, is it?
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>then there's a case why bridges should as well, even though they don't have graphical variation on town zone (yet)
08:39<@peter1138>planetmaker, sure, but you need to know which town for that :-)
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, center of which town?
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: afaik not how it currently works
08:39<@planetmaker>might not work
08:39<@peter1138>No, closest doesn't work.
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: big town encircling small town has definitely difference in town zones
08:40<@planetmaker>pathological edge case: 3M town with a 20 pop village at its edge
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's not that rare
08:40<@peter1138>Not an edge case, it happens a lot.
08:40<@peter1138>Deleting bridges because of wrong nearest town is one of the problems fixed by these changes.
08:41<@peter1138>I solved it a different way as that only affects world-gen.
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>maybe "closest town" should not be a voronoi diagram, but flipped on expanding a town
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>if a town builds a road or a house, it flips adjacent tiles to itself
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>or you could have the "distance" in the voronoi calculation be skewed by town size
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>(that would also occasionally flip tiles over, as towns grow at different speeds)
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08:46<@peter1138>Basically, if you add another uint16 to the map array, you can have explicit towns for every tile regardless of type.
08:46<@peter1138>Basically take the voronoi patch and discard the voronoi bit.
08:46<@peter1138>Of course, 32MB extra for a 4kx4k map.
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08:47<@peter1138>Although that doesn't handle anything about towns expanding or shrinking. I'll shut up.
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08:57<Samu>i dont know why that happened
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09:03<Samu>doesn't happen with notepad++
09:04<Samu>happens with visual studio
09:04<Samu>ok fixing it
09:06<Samu>what is a \ufeff ?
09:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Town bridges store town indexes in map array.
09:19<@planetmaker>a BOM @ Samu
09:25<@peter1138>I should work on my command bit-packing helpers.
09:25<@peter1138>Would be useful in this case.
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09:51<Samu>must test
09:51<Samu>what is stored when i build a rail bridge
09:53<Samu>i think i forgot something
09:55<Samu>ah no
09:55<Samu>it builds rail which uses 0
09:56<Samu>smart code
09:56<Samu>working correctly
10:28<Samu>i need trams
10:28<Samu>owner none trams in scenario editor
10:28<Samu>to see what happens
10:29<Samu>how to do this, if possible
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10:43<Samu>this can be simplified, now that I take a deep look at it
10:45<@peter1138>It should be unnecessary if you provided the town in the build bridge command.
10:46<Samu>i dont need to check roadtypes
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10:48<Samu>or maybe I do
10:48<Samu>GrowTownInTile(&tile, cur_rb, target_dir, t);
10:49<Samu>&tile is changed right?
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10:51<Samu>*tile_ptr = GetOtherTunnelBridgeEnd(tile);
10:51<Samu>OH, how handy
10:51<Samu>that means it's still the same bridge
10:52<Samu>just the other end
10:52<Samu>so no need to check for roadtypes
10:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7282: Fix #7274, Fix #7043: Town bridges store town indexes in map array.
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10:59<Samu>it checks for town roadbits
11:00<Samu>aka roadtype_road
11:00<Samu>so no need to repeat that
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11:03<Samu>towns don't like to expand on trams
11:14<Samu>my question no is
11:14<Samu>should road bridges that contain tram tracks be owned by towns?
11:14<Samu>for roads it appears the answer is yes, but...
11:15<Samu>don't know if they warrant the same treatment
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11:40<@peter1138>Towns can't build trams, so it won't be their bridge.
11:41<@peter1138>This is where the definition of 'owning town' and 'nearest town' is confusing:p
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11:45<nielsm>if a player builds tram on a town's bridge does it become the player's bridge or what?
11:45<nielsm>or does it remain town owned?
11:45<Samu>i removed the road part of a OWNER_TOWN road, and the tram stayed
11:45<nielsm>and in that case could another player then destroy the bridge?
11:45<Samu>tram is owned by OWNER_NONE, but tile is still owned by OWNER_TOWN
11:46<Samu>let me test
11:47<@peter1138>Still seems like a lot of effort for something that only manifests during world-gen :p
11:47<nielsm>and if a player becomes owner of a town bridge after building tram on it, does that mean the player could bypass local authority restrictions on destroying the bridge by building tram on it then destroying it?
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11:48<Samu>scenario editor in this case
11:48<Samu>and it needs to load a savegame with trams
11:49<Samu>the owner of the tile is OWNER_TOWN, pointing into the t-index
11:49<Samu>the owner of the road on the tile is OWNER_TOWN
11:50<Samu>the owner of the tram on the tile is my company
11:50<Samu>owner of the road is also pointing to t->index
11:50<Samu>let me test another player destroy the bridge
11:52<Samu>owned by my company, doesn't let it be destroyed
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11:54<Samu>cannot downgrade the bridge
11:54<Samu>this time local authority comes up denying it
11:55<Samu>but i can upgrade it
11:56<@peter1138>You can make it better, but you can't make it worse.
11:56<@peter1138>Kinda logical.
11:56<Samu>yeah, but it has tram on it from another company
11:56<Samu>i was allowed to upgraded it
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11:59<Samu>this now mimics the same behaviour as roads
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12:00<Samu>if roads are wrong, then it's not my fault, i just made it do the same
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13:08<nielsm> that's a pretty high version number!
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13:42<@peter1138>Yes no 3 bags full
13:43<@peter1138>Actually only 2, so I had enough hands to carry them home.
13:43<@peter1138>Now I have to dispose of 3 oreo 'eggs' somehow.
13:44<@peter1138>Also some massive sweet potatoes.
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13:46*andythenorth rage quits WOT Blitz
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13:48<@peter1138>Hmm, I could do some coding, or play beta3.
13:48<andythenorth>I am coding
13:48<andythenorth>or playing
13:50<@peter1138>I remember why I didn't play MP much.
13:50<@peter1138>Stuff happens when you are not there :p
13:51<@peter1138>Hmm, load openttdcoops save -> enable cargodist -> enjoy.
13:51<@peter1138>/usr/include/SDL/SDL_stdinc.h:74:11: fatal error: 'iconv.h' file not found
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13:57<andythenorth>and there's no daylength
13:58<andythenorth>so all the trains expire really quickly
13:58<andythenorth>when will daylength be done?
13:59<@peter1138>Have you written it?
14:00<@peter1138>NRT was rebased on Monday, do I need to do it again?
14:01<@peter1138>There you go.
14:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
14:03<andythenorth>I was going to add intro-date-scaling parameter to Iron Horse
14:03<andythenorth>but Eddi|zuHause forbids it :D
14:03<@peter1138>You can solve daylength with a gamescript ;)
14:03<@peter1138>(I don't know if you actually can...)
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>except you can't :p
14:08<andythenorth>the best solution was eddi's patch
14:10<@peter1138>Maybe I should cook my dinner instead of my code.
14:10*andythenorth looks for old patches
14:10<andythenorth>I have to cook dinner
14:10<@peter1138>Maybe I should make a patch pack.
14:10<@peter1138>Merge it all and totally mess up my repo.
14:10<andythenorth>fix tropic patch
14:11<andythenorth>FS3958 patch
14:11<andythenorth>add windowshade to station building window patch
14:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
14:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
14:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
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14:24<nielsm>the CI hates me :( it looks like it's not even getting the kdtree build job submitted this time
14:37<andythenorth>CI always hates everyone :)
14:37<andythenorth>that's what we pay it for :)
14:47<TrueBrain>at least that fixes the double-queue issue nielsm :P
14:47<TrueBrain>ah. they rolled out the new version
14:49<TrueBrain>nielsm: queued one for you manually :P
14:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
14:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azure-pipelines[bot] commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
14:51<nielsm>what kind of comment was that?
14:52<@peter1138>One that didn't work, I guess.
14:55<TrueBrain>yeah; you can now trigger builds from comments
14:55<TrueBrain>the idea/hope was that it could trigger a "nightly" build
14:55<TrueBrain>I tried it, it barfed
14:55<TrueBrain>I also rather have that it rebuilds on every push, instead that you have to tell it every push to build
14:55<TrueBrain>I need to look into this a bit more :)
14:57<andythenorth>I left openttd running at title game
14:57<andythenorth>now my battery is flat :P
14:57<TrueBrain>my battery is always flat
14:57<TrueBrain>when it is no longer flat, is when I worry
14:57<TrueBrain>but .. that is just me
14:59<nielsm>TrueBrain: guess this is the manually triggered one?
14:59<nielsm>not a very good name it got :)
14:59<TrueBrain>yeah .. that happens with manual jobs
14:59<TrueBrain>GitHub overwrites that name normally :)
15:00<TrueBrain>hmm, it didnt report on GitHub the status?
15:00<TrueBrain>that is odd
15:00<TrueBrain>it should have
15:00<TrueBrain>how about this ....
15:01<TrueBrain>yeah, that is reported ... okay ...
15:01<TrueBrain>so, Azure Pipelines normally runs the /merge of a PR
15:01<nielsm>so, todo for viewport signs kdtree use: separate town names from the rest so they are drawn on bottom, fix the X axis search range somehow
15:01<TrueBrain>but manually you have to trigger /head .. which reports wrong on Azure Pipelines
15:01<TrueBrain>but correct in GitHub
15:06<@peter1138>Hmm, should I learn how to write an AI?
15:07<@peter1138>5 new Note block sounds have been added: Iron Xylophone, Cow Bell, Didgeridoo, Bit, and Banjo
15:07<@peter1138>Maybe I should play Minecraft a bit...
15:07<TrueBrain>glx: "For now we rely on cmake default CMAKE_CONFIGURATION_TYPES and CMAKE_XXXXX_FLAGS_, but it should be better to manage that by ourselves" <- this is a very vague and blank statement :P
15:08<TrueBrain>especially the last part
15:08<TrueBrain>no clue what you try to say here :)
15:08<@peter1138>Oh, is it worth me trying to compile for Android?
15:09<+glx>well I mean set CMAKE_CONFIGURATION and the flags in our script and ignore default values
15:09<+glx>like you did for MT(d) but that was a little too aggressive :)
15:09<TrueBrain>I am still not sure what you mean ..
15:10<TrueBrain>MT and MD is a special case MSVC created; CMake doesn't support that (yet?)
15:11<+glx>cmake default sets MD
15:11<TrueBrain>yes; it doesn't support switching to MT
15:11<TrueBrain>this is mostly because MSVC is the only one with such a flag, it seems
15:12<TrueBrain>but what has that to do with cmake_configuration_types?
15:12<+glx>oh my comment has been truncated
15:13<+glx>by default it's CMAKE_CONFIGURATION_TYPES:STRING=Debug;Release;MinSizeRel;RelWithDebInfo
15:14<+glx>and it then add all of that in the project
15:14<TrueBrain>fine by me, not?
15:14<+glx>we could just have debug and release, and use the same flags as in the old projects
15:14<TrueBrain>what does that solve?
15:15<@peter1138>Damn, non-rect catchment pushed back to 1.10 :(
15:15<+glx>currently release build have no symbols
15:16<TrueBrain>is RelWithDebInfo with symbols?
15:16<+glx>I think it is, but that means creating a new build dir to test it for me
15:17<TrueBrain>okay, I am not completely sure what you try to do or say .. as it is still very vague to me :P
15:17<+glx>but having just 2 config and explicitely set all flags ensure it does what we want
15:18<TrueBrain>but we really should keep cmake as much default as possible
15:18<+glx>and no rely on some "hidden" defaults
15:18<TrueBrain>the chances they know better what we should do is very high :)
15:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
15:18<TrueBrain>any change we make to the default, is more work we have to maintain, especially over multiple cmake versions
15:18<TrueBrain>so we really have to have a VERY good reason to touch these things
15:19<TrueBrain>the idea of cmake move is to make the world easier again ;)
15:19<TrueBrain>lets add as little deviations to that as humanly possible :D
15:19<TrueBrain>glx: no clue what that line does, but it also lacks any kind of comment
15:19<TrueBrain>IF we make a specific exception, it might be good that we document the reason why
15:20<@peter1138>Coding style question, is "FOR_ALL_TOWNS(t) DoSomething();" permitted?
15:20<TrueBrain>otherwise .. we end up with config.lib :D
15:20<@peter1138>Or should I put { } in?
15:20<nielsm>any /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMTD.LIB and other nodefaultlib is a sign you're mixing objects/static libs built with different msvc runtime versions
15:20<TrueBrain>peter1138: grep the code ? (honestly no clue :D)
15:20<nielsm>typically debug/release mixing, or static/dll mixing
15:20<nielsm>or st/mt mixing
15:20<+glx>all MT
15:20<TrueBrain>mt/md in this case possibly? :P
15:20<nielsm>either of those is generally a bad idea
15:21<@peter1138>TrueBrain, we do it in a few places already. LordAro flagged it though.
15:21<+glx>MTd for debug, and MT for release
15:21<TrueBrain>anyway .. exactly this is why it needs a comment :)
15:21<TrueBrain>so someone can come in and say: this means something else is fishy :D
15:21<+glx>and the warning is only from the generated project
15:22<+glx>the old version had /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMT.LIB for debug builds
15:22<nielsm>it's probably one of the static libraries linked (freetype, compression libs) that's causing the linker issue without that flag
15:22<nielsm>if any
15:23<TrueBrain>I rather have that we zoom in why there is a problem
15:23<+glx>and the settings are correct in the project
15:23<TrueBrain>if we still want to nodefaultlib, at least we have a comment explaining why we came to the conclusion :D
15:23<nielsm>yeah best to figure out why a static lib built with a different runtime is being used
15:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
15:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
15:30<TrueBrain>meh; variables in CMake are a pita
15:30<TrueBrain>but I have to toy with it to see if we can just remove them
15:30<TrueBrain>mostly you can
15:32<TrueBrain>hmm, yeah, in this case too, but it needs some moving around of code
15:32<TrueBrain>I will pick that up this weekend or something :)
15:32<TrueBrain>(I always move stuff around 20 times in CMake, before it finds it place :P)
15:32<+glx>it's hard to see what flags are actually set, you need to check CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS, and one CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_XXX for each config
15:32<TrueBrain>the nice thing about CMake .. you should not worry what flags are set :P
15:33<TrueBrain>often, when you notice yourself doing that, you went too far down the rabbit hole :P
15:33<+glx>unless they are wrong ;)
15:33<TrueBrain>(just personal experience)
15:33<TrueBrain>often they are wrong because something else is wrong ;)
15:33<TrueBrain>the MT/MD is the first I have seen in a long time that cmake simply doesn't support (yet?)
15:33<TrueBrain>for that you need to touch those .. but those are the really rare cases .. or should be :D
15:34<TrueBrain>lzma is weird .. only library in cmake names liblzma .. all others are without 'lib'
15:34<TrueBrain>very odd
15:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
15:34<+glx>yes but easier to change our #ifdef than handle a special case
15:35<TrueBrain>yeah, your change is the correct change
15:35<TrueBrain>it is still odd, that lzma is odd :P
15:36<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> the best solution was eddi's patch <-- i don't think i had a patch
15:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
15:36<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you made years rollover
15:36<andythenorth>so date progression was half the usual rate
15:36<andythenorth>I lost the patch
15:37<TrueBrain>glx: fun fact, GLOB RESURCIVE is SLOW as fuck :P
15:37<@peter1138>Hmm, this Talisker Storm tastes funny :/
15:37<+glx>anyway in master no need for /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMTD.LIB, and it's using the same vcpkg libs
15:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area
15:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
15:38<TrueBrain>glx: I have no clue what that sentence means :) Sorry :P
15:38<TrueBrain>"in master", is where I am lost
15:39<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> my battery is always flat <-- am i weird when my batteries are usually round?
15:39<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: laptop batteries?
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i don't think that was me
15:39<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: yes, that would be weird :)
15:39<TrueBrain>LiIon batteries are most common flat
15:39<TrueBrain>when they swell up, the membrane broke, and you can better throw it away :P
15:40<TrueBrain>glx: anyway, nice work so far :) Some CMake thingies that we can improve on, but that is true for most of the CMake code we have so far :)
15:40<+glx>hey I'm a debutant ;)
15:41<@peter1138>Just imagine if you were trying to use waf...
15:41<+glx>hmm beginner seems better
15:41<@planetmaker>I think debutant is understandable, too (at least to Germans ;) )
15:41<TrueBrain>you can only be a debutant once, and a beginner for ever :D
15:42<TrueBrain>I leave it up to glx to pick one :P
15:42<+glx>btw with cmake you now get -- Version string: 20190227--g7708188bd9 in the compile log
15:42<TrueBrain>your branch detection broke!
15:42<@planetmaker>master is missing there
15:42<+glx>(CI log)
15:42<TrueBrain>CI doesn't have a branch
15:42<TrueBrain>so yes
15:42<+glx>locally it works
15:42<TrueBrain>(it is a detached head)
15:43<TrueBrain>so that is working as intended, in my opinion :)
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15:48<Eddi|zuHause>we might want to have some filler text for the detached head case :)
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>or generally the no-branch-found case
15:48<TrueBrain>why? They never produce a binary you can download :)
15:48<TrueBrain>and if you locally do this ... if you shoot yourself in your foot, it tends to hurt :P
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>there has been a complaint that you can't reproduce nightly builds locally, because "master" might have moved on and the version is "wrong" then
15:50<TrueBrain>that is why we publish the hash of the nightly, which you can check out :)
15:50<+glx>you can always get the right version locally
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15:50<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but when you check out the hash, you get a different version string
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15:50<TrueBrain>nielsm: network check is now based only on git hash? Or still also on branch?
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15:51<nielsm>git checkout master && git reset --hard $nightlyhash
15:51<@peter1138>The hash is the same though. The network version changes that nielsm did should mean it only checks that.
15:51<nielsm>yeah unless it's a tag build, then it only compares the hash part of a network version
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15:51<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: there is your answer :)
15:51<andythenorth>how long until I use all industry tiles? :P
15:51<@peter1138>andythenorth, 5 minutes.
15:51<nielsm>tag builds require exact match of the network revision
15:51<andythenorth>not sure I code that fast
15:52<TrueBrain>nielsm: that is fair :)
15:52<nielsm>non-tag builds only check the hash
15:52<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: so there is not really a problem, from what I can tell?
15:52<TrueBrain>(please correct if I am wrong :D)
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, depends how far you want to lawyer the word "problem" ,p
15:53<TrueBrain>you said there was a complaint :P I was hoping you could tell if the above information reclassifies the complaint as "just wasn't educated sufficiently" :P
15:53<andythenorth>also gonna run out of industry IDs
15:53<andythenorth>I can always re-pack them per economy though
15:53<andythenorth>nml hates that
15:53<TrueBrain>so nightlies can just do: git checkout <hash> -B nightly
15:53<TrueBrain>and build it :P
15:54<TrueBrain>sure, the string in the title window is "wrong" .. but they can still join any multiplayer server of that same hash version :)
15:54<TrueBrain>unless we tagged that exact same version
15:54<TrueBrain>than you are just screwed :P
15:54<TrueBrain>fuck betas
15:54<@peter1138>TrueBrain, one of the "complaints"swas from me, and it was from before nielsm's changes ;)
15:55<@peter1138>It was that that led to the changes, heh.
15:55<TrueBrain>peter1138: so Eddi|zuHause was just making a fuzz for nothing? :P :D (j/k Eddi|zuHause :D)
15:55<@peter1138>He may have forgotten or not known, heh.
15:55<TrueBrain>I am just teasing him now
15:55<TrueBrain>but I am honestly interested if there are still complaints
15:55<TrueBrain>as this takes a bit getting used to
15:55<TrueBrain>things are a bit different now with git
15:56<TrueBrain>so it is good to indicate when people don't understand of don't know how to solve a situation
15:56<@peter1138>TrueBrain, some people still think hg should've been chosen ;(
15:56<TrueBrain>people think a lot of things
15:56<@peter1138>Is there an hghub? hehe
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>i had not forgotten about the timeline, but i was a bit grasping for an argument vaguely related to my aim that "20190227--g7708188bd9" should use some filler text between the -- :)
15:57<TrueBrain>we can add: YOUAREAPEANUT, in that case?
15:57<TrueBrain>I am okay with that
15:58<@peter1138>Make it a \0 to cause fun.
15:58<TrueBrain>:D EVIL!
15:58<andythenorth>is it done yet? :P
15:58<+glx>it's the CI anyway no one should use it
15:58<andythenorth>name some types of Steel
15:59<@planetmaker>v4a, v2a
15:59<TrueBrain>hard and soft
15:59<@planetmaker>the first is for saline water, the other not
15:59<TrueBrain>Steel was a good movie
16:00<andythenorth>how far shall we explore Ferrous Scrap in OpenTTD? :P
16:00*andythenorth making FIRS
16:00<+glx>ok in master there's a /NODEFAULTLIB:LIBCMT.LIB for debug builds, but it's useless, must be from a very old time
16:01<+glx>so I should debug more on cmke side :)
16:01<+glx>because the same vcpkg binaries are used
16:02<+glx>so it should work
16:03<nielsm>glx, or maybe from when ICU was in use?
16:03<+glx>possible, ICU was a pain to build anyway
16:05<@peter1138> < I wonder where to get those NewGRFs... :p
16:05<andythenorth>I think they were all rage-deleted from simutrans iirc
16:05<andythenorth>simuscape *
16:06<@peter1138>That screenshot competition should require savegames, hehe :D
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16:12*peter1138 finishes off the blue stilton
16:13<@peter1138>Use-by 19th Jan. Nicely mature, IMHO.
16:14<andythenorth>probably ready now
16:15<@peter1138>Maybe I should draw that glyph for the station catchment button.
16:15<andythenorth>maybe nml should be faster :x
16:15<@peter1138>Might go to bed.
16:16<@peter1138>I've not had a decent night's sleep for ages.
16:16<@peter1138>Keep staying up late fiddling with code.
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16:16<@peter1138>Making random PRs, filling up github.
16:16<andythenorth>stay up playing ottd
16:16<andythenorth>or go to bed :P
16:16*andythenorth FIRSes
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16:16<andythenorth>Carbon Black Plant then?
16:17<andythenorth>so do I do Tar or Coal Tar?
16:17<andythenorth>Tar is available from multiple sources, but you only make paracetamol from Coal Tar :P
16:17<andythenorth>I just pick one and change it later of course :P
16:18<@peter1138>Oops, I forgot I wasn't in my branch that fixes 4096^2 map generation.
16:18<andythenorth>does it remove it?
16:24<andythenorth>in UK English 'tar' apparently refers to 'coal tar' usually
16:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
16:24<andythenorth>not wood tar, or petrochemical tar
16:24<nielsm>will it trigger ci???
16:24<andythenorth>except when it's road tar
16:24<andythenorth>which is asphalt or bitumen
16:24<andythenorth>but UK asphalt isn't asphalt
16:24<andythenorth>confusing much?
16:25<andythenorth>uk asphalt is bitumen
16:25<nielsm>is that actually the source for "tarmac" for road surface?
16:26<nielsm>(if you go to a fast food store and order a McTar, is that a coffee?)
16:26<andythenorth>but the tarmac at an airport is usually a form of concrete
16:26<andythenorth>I go back to making trains
16:26<andythenorth>or all cargo is 'stuff'
16:27<@peter1138>Hmm, these ships aren't centered properly.
16:27<@peter1138>FISH 0.9.2 I guess.
16:27<nielsm>would anyone dare test if viewport signs in kdtree are behaving properly now?
16:27<andythenorth>that sucks
16:27*andythenorth abandoned all FISH
16:28<andythenorth>did I release Unsinkable Sam yet?
16:28<nielsm>let's make a release build and try that 50k stations save again
16:28<nielsm>it was slow in panning with the linear search for visible signs
16:29*peter1138 compiles it.
16:30<@peter1138>1.9 in April
16:30<@peter1138>1.10 in May?
16:30<nielsm>I suppose some generated town names can be very long, and combine that with very long station name affixes too
16:30<andythenorth>does Coal Tar conflate with Coal too easily?
16:30<nielsm>and you could get some signs wider than this anticipates
16:30<andythenorth>1.10 in June pet
16:30<@peter1138>Coal Tar Soap?
16:30<andythenorth>tab fail
16:30<andythenorth>Coal Tar Soap
16:30<andythenorth>is a thing
16:31<@peter1138>nielsm, seems to work okay for me.
16:31<@peter1138>Faster than master.
16:31<andythenorth>so Paint for all those vehicles??
16:31<andythenorth>Industrial Finishes?
16:32<nielsm>yup panning around is very smooth
16:32<@peter1138>It did just freeze. Hmm.
16:33<@peter1138>This save is bugged though.
16:33<@peter1138>Maybe due to the number of stations, I don't know.
16:33<@peter1138>But now all stations have signs.
16:35*peter1138 tests 4096^2 world gen.
16:35<@peter1138>That's pretty fast.
16:37<andythenorth>16 cargos in, 16 out
16:37*andythenorth makes FIRS Steeltown really hard :P
16:38<@peter1138>So it fixes #7272.
16:38<@peter1138>But won't help #7043 of course.
16:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
16:39<@peter1138>I forgot to use time :p
16:40<@peter1138>So I generated a 4096^2 world for no reason.
16:41<nielsm>ah yeah, if you choose Catalan town names you get some crazy long ones
16:41<andythenorth>'Foundry' or 'Engine Plant' :P
16:41<andythenorth>and 'Electrical Machines Factory' seems really long name
16:41<+glx>time to try multiline town names ?
16:42<nielsm>even those long names no clipping
16:42<@peter1138>So faster than my patch.
16:43<@peter1138>Probably some disconnected towns though :)
16:43<+glx>luck in station placement ;)
16:45<andythenorth>oof, so 'Electrical Machines Factory' is the longest FIRS industry name
16:45<andythenorth>and is very clunky
16:45<andythenorth>just 'machine works'?
16:46<andythenorth>FIRS already has a 'Machine Shop' which is quite different :P
16:46<Samu>nielsm, try mailai
16:46<Samu>it spams signs
16:46<Samu>or enable debug signs in some of the AIs
16:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
16:48<Samu>I have a question
16:49<Samu>what do these two UpdateStationWaiting's warning mean?
16:50<nielsm>the function is called twice on different stations
16:50<nielsm>the order those stations are processed must be the same on all clients in a network game, otherwise you get desyncs
16:51<nielsm>if you put both calls in a single statement in C++, the compiler is technically free to call them in either order, one or the other first
16:51<nielsm>and the comments explain that, they must not be on the same statement to ensure the correct call order
16:54<andythenorth>dare I split 'scrap metal'?
16:54<andythenorth>it was pretty controversial that cargo
16:55<nielsm>it's a bit weird
16:55<nielsm>why is it a pseudo-required input for steel?
16:56<andythenorth>that cargo (and the junk yard industry) are the only bits of FIRS Steeltown I don't like
16:57<andythenorth>it's somehow unsatisfying and I always tackle it late in game
16:57<andythenorth>actual RL scrap metal is sorted into
16:57<andythenorth>- cast iron, which goes to foundry for remelt
16:57*peter1138 tests with #7250 and #7284 merged together.
16:57<andythenorth>- general ferrous scrap which goes to blast furnace or mini mill
16:58<andythenorth>- copper scrap, goes to remelt at copper casting plant
16:58<andythenorth>- stainless steel (boring in game)
16:58<andythenorth>- niche metals
16:58*andythenorth wonders if junk yard should work like FIRS recycling depot
16:58<andythenorth>production depends on town popn
16:59<nielsm>recycling station, industry inside towns whose output depends on town population? and outputs several of those you just listed?
17:00<@peter1138>real 1m11.447s
17:00<@peter1138>No improvement with both, unsurprisingly. Although no disconnected towns.
17:01<andythenorth>scrap yard also somewhat ugly :|
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17:05<@peter1138>Make Scrapyards Great Again.
17:05<@peter1138>Looks fine, although a bit bare.
17:05<@peter1138>A little too dark.
17:05<@peter1138>Maybe it was the screen.
17:06*andythenorth explores Factorio cargos
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17:10<andythenorth>just one type of Steel then? :P
17:10<@peter1138>Probably sufficient.
17:10<andythenorth>Steel Coil, Steel Beams, Steel Billets, Steel Rods, Steel Ingots, Steel Blooms, Steel Plates
17:11<andythenorth>oh that's what subtypes are *supposed* to be for
17:11<andythenorth>did they ever get used for that?
17:11<andythenorth>or just for livery crap?
17:11<@peter1138>Visual stuff, yes.
17:11<andythenorth>there's no cargo class for 'molten'
17:11<nielsm>steel trinkets
17:11<andythenorth>is that 'hazardous'?
17:11<@peter1138>DBSetXL used them for that, yes.
17:11<andythenorth>I never tried it :O
17:11<andythenorth>is it on bananaramas?
17:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
17:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN dismissed a review for pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
17:12<@peter1138>It's not.
17:13<@peter1138>But it was one of the driving forces getting better NewGRF support in OpenTTD.
17:14<+glx>ok cmake does something wrong it seems
17:16<andythenorth>did BR Trains die again?
17:16*andythenorth can't keep up
17:19<@peter1138>I'm losing track of my own PRs :p
17:19<@peter1138>Hmm, 61 branches.
17:24<andythenorth>branch -D
17:24<@peter1138>No thanks.
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17:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7289: Add: Configurable ship curve penalties (YAPF)
17:29<Samu>googles statement
17:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
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17:41<Samu>how do i test that which nielsm said? order of execution, evaluation order, compiler order?
17:42<@peter1138>Why do you need to?
17:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
17:44<@peter1138>But you haven't put two "UpdateStationWaiting() calls in the same execute point.
17:44<@peter1138>So it's irrelevant.
17:45<Samu>I didn't?
17:45<Samu>how do you tell? I don't know where to look
17:49<Samu>speaking of branch, time to delete some
17:54<@peter1138>Your calls are in different paths of the if condition, let alone the same execution point.
17:55<@peter1138>Ah sequence point is the correct term.
17:55<@peter1138>If you had something like "moved = UpdateStationWaiting() + UpdateStationWaiting()"
17:56<@peter1138>Then that would be in the same sequence point and the compiler is free to call the functions in whatever order.
17:56<Samu>isn't what moved += do?
17:57<@peter1138>Moved doesn't mean it will call UpdateStationWaiting twice...
17:57<@peter1138>moved += ...
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18:02<andythenorth>it's late
18:05<@peter1138>I was ready to go to bed early, and then...
18:09<Samu>so my code is desync free :=)
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18:11<Eddi|zuHause>then you're still here 3 hours from now?
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18:22<drac_boy>hi there .. correct me if I saw it wrong but do catenary poles have to be drawn on only one side because otherwise it'll probably cause clipping issues with junctions and alike?
18:22<drac_boy>(one side of rails I mean sorry heh)
18:23<@peter1138>They're drawn on one side because only one sprite is drawn.
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>huh? catenary poles can switch sides depending on what junction you place
18:25<@peter1138>Huh to who?
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>and they also alternate sides when you have parallel lines
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>so where do you get "only one side" from?
18:26<drac_boy>eddi .. these sort that have poles on both sides of the track :)
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18:27<drac_boy>and of course some odd ones such as this being non-metal
18:27<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, "drawn on one side" i mean, the image is of one side, not both sides.
18:27*andythenorth is failing to go to bed
18:27<@peter1138>Or something.
18:27<andythenorth>making cargo charts
18:27<andythenorth>none of you can see :P
18:28<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, and of course, they are only drawn on on side.
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>oh, so "bridge" style catenary holders
18:28<andythenorth>so vehicle industry chain.....Paint cargo? o_O
18:28<@peter1138>That doesn't mean always the same side.
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>well, that would be possible, if you allow two sprites to be drawn with separate bounding boxes
18:29<@peter1138>But there's never 2 drawn on a tile.
18:29<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, sure.
18:29<@peter1138>23:23 <@peter1138> They're drawn on one side because only one sprite is drawn.
18:29<@peter1138>That's basically what I said.
18:29<Samu>what does slice out of range mean?
18:29<@peter1138>However, I've just proved myself wrong :D
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>the catenary pole drawing code is a tiny bit complicated already, i don't think it would be too great of an idea to further complicate it with this
18:30<@peter1138>Some "end-rail" poles are on opposite sides.
18:30<@peter1138>Actually drawing both poles would be simpler.
18:30<andythenorth>is Aluminium also Steel? :P
18:30<@peter1138>if there was a flag, then it can just always do it :p
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: but there's like 6 or 8 different postions you could draw a pole
18:32*andythenorth decides Aluminium is meh
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>also, the real complicated bit would be to allow a "bridge" style catenary support to span multiple tracks
18:32*andythenorth running out of silly cargos now
18:33<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, hmm, yeah.
18:33<andythenorth>I kind of have glass
18:33<andythenorth>and electrical machines :P
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>TF has a bit of a problem with catenary poles on junctions
18:34<@peter1138>"This computer does not support Intel Virtualization Technology (VT-x) or it is being exclusively used by Hyper-V. HAXM cannot be installed"
18:34<@peter1138>Well, that's a cock.
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>on parallel tracks it's fine, but junctions it just omits them and the catenary is attached to the air
18:35<@peter1138>My Linux VM is running under Hyper-V...
18:35<Samu>pharmaceutic cargo
18:35<Samu>the urgent one
18:37<Samu>kidneys, hearts, blood transfusions, hmm...
18:37<andythenorth>samu blood is not bad :)
18:37<andythenorth>body parts
18:37<andythenorth>we'd need to do them like diamonds, low weight, high value
18:38<Samu>wheel chairs
18:38<Samu>whatever it's called
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18:40<andythenorth>I need somewhere to publish docs too
18:40<andythenorth>maybe this git move was premature :P
18:41<Samu>i have an ai with 'slice out of range' error
18:41<Samu>what is
18:41<LordAro>andythenorth: github wiki
18:41<LordAro>or, if you're feeling fancy, a gh-pages site
18:41<Samu>company.nut line 43, let me investigate
18:42<andythenorth>can GH wiki do uploads?
18:42<andythenorth>gh-pages would probably work
18:42<andythenorth>I'm not using jekyll for these docs though :P
18:42<Samu> if (theirName && name.find(theirName.slice(0,4))) { //names are too similar
18:43<Samu>so this caused a "slice out of range", what is a slice out of range? :o
18:43<LordAro>Samu: what do you think "foo".slice(0, 4) would do ?
18:43<Samu>no idea
18:44<LordAro>i'll let you try to work it out
18:44<Samu>theirName is "Aro"
18:44<andythenorth>gets you Aro no?
18:45<LordAro>one presumes not
18:45<LordAro>given the error
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18:45<Samu>name is "Public Railroad S.A."
18:47*andythenorth publishes screenshots of web pages :P
18:47<andythenorth>looks better than ??
18:49<drac_boy>if you mean upload it as a png instead then yes I do like that one a lot better
18:50<andythenorth>I mean the flow
18:51<drac_boy>ah well the png one does look nice :)
18:51<drac_boy>(plus labelling the engineering supplies in first oval too)
18:52<andythenorth>it's considered bad to commit generated files to the repo?
18:52<andythenorth>I don't see how to publish GH pages otherwise
18:53<LordAro>andythenorth: well you'll have to commit those, yes
18:53<andythenorth>does github have some kind of CI integration?
18:54<andythenorth>how hard can it be to run a makefile?
18:54<andythenorth>even jenkins can manage that
18:54<LordAro>not actually sure
18:54<andythenorth>oh do I have to buy a service maybe?
18:55<andythenorth>looks like Travis is the winner
18:55<andythenorth>"Testing your open source projects will always be free!"
18:55<andythenorth>ugh I have to get an account, that means using email
18:55<andythenorth>oh no, I can do it with github creds :D
18:56<andythenorth>maybe not tonight :P
18:58<andythenorth>looks like travis needs a script to install dependencies
18:58<andythenorth>wonder if they're cached, or if they build fresh every time
18:59<andythenorth>also that means I have to write something to install python deps
18:59<LordAro>pip install ...
19:01<andythenorth>still needs or something
19:01<andythenorth>or maybe there's a set of yaml steps
19:01*andythenorth reading
19:01<andythenorth>oh anything in standard debian might be available
19:01<andythenorth>does debian include all the python module crap?
19:02<LordAro>depends what you need :p
19:02<andythenorth>markdown, chameleon, pillow
19:02<andythenorth>eh I can try at the weekend maybe
19:02<andythenorth>and travis can publish
19:03<LordAro>and it will be glorious
19:03<andythenorth>so maybe coop bundles can be replaced by an S3 bucket
19:03<andythenorth>no jenkins, no bundles
19:03<andythenorth>no servers
19:03<andythenorth>no sysadmins
19:03<andythenorth>also bedtime
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19:18<Samu>what is gm folder for? in the downloads?
19:20<Samu>general midi?
19:30<drac_boy>samu is it empty or theres anything inside?
19:32<drac_boy>hmm oh well was worth asking .. in that case you may be right about the possible acronym but I really won't know tbh
19:33<Samu>ohhh.. AroAI crashed
19:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7290: Change: Disallow taking over AI companies in multiplayer
19:50<drac_boy>samu btw being curious I did find it for you: 'gm' is music files aka the ones used for in-game songs playing (rather than sound effects)
19:51<drac_boy>so I think it simply meant Game Musics
19:51<Samu>oh i see, ty
19:51<Samu>yeah i didn't download any music
19:52<Samu>except openmsx, but it doesn't go to that folder apparently
19:52<drac_boy>samu hmm just a wild guess but is it under content_download instead? ;)
19:53<Samu>it's content_download/gm
19:57<Beerbelott>planetmaker: btw #2155 is awaiting ur review ;)
19:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7291: Change: Allow town bridges over rails.
20:08<drac_boy>samu anything interesting tonight or just boring things?
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20:11<Samu>Looking through my old svn patches
20:12<drac_boy>well have fun with that or something .. I'm going off for tonight's .. might try a little more sprites drawing later on if theres not much else in hallway tho
20:12<drac_boy>anyway goodnight for now tho
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20:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7292: Change: No need to save AI/GS data when joining a multiplayer server
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20:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7293: Add: No plane crashes unless runway is too short option
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>didn't we already have that?
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21:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7293: Add: No plane crashes unless runway is too short option
21:12<Samu>hold on
21:12<Samu>kinda busy
21:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7294: Add: Allow or disallow company level crossings as a game setting
21:13<Samu>ok let me look
21:17<Samu>plane_crashes == 0 -> return
21:19<Samu>plane_crashes == 1 -> prob = 0x4000 << 1
21:20<Samu>if cheats are disabled, prob / 20 --> high probability
21:21<Samu>if cheats are enabled, prob / 1500 --> low probability
21:21<Samu>if aircraft is not fast
21:22<Samu> -> return
21:22<Samu>hmm confusing indeed
21:23<Samu>plane_crashes == 1 -> return no matter plane size
21:23<Samu>seems to do what I intend
21:23<Samu>plane_crashes == 2 -> prob = 0x4000 << 1
21:24<Samu>if cheats disabled, prob / 20
21:24<Samu>if cheats enabled, prob / 1500
21:24<Samu>if aircraft is not fast
21:25<Samu>plane_crashes == 2, so prob / 1500
21:25<Samu>that's a low probability
21:26<Samu>plane_crashes == 3 -> prob = 0x4000 << 2
21:26<Samu>yada yada, same as previous one
21:26<Samu>looks correct to me Eddi|zuHause
21:27<Samu>confusing perhaps, but correct
21:29<Samu>doesn't duplicate the cheat imo
21:30<Samu>it's useful for setting up competitive servers
21:31<Samu>I've always wanted ppl to use the correct aircraft types on short airports
21:31<Samu>penalize them if running the wrong planes
21:32<Samu>but have no crashes for those who use the right planes
21:32<Samu>currently, there is no way to setup that
---Logopened Wed Feb 27 21:57:28 2019
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 28 00:00:23 2019