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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-03-01

---Logopened Fri Mar 01 00:00:09 2019
---Daychanged Fri Mar 01 2019
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01:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7298: Fix multiplayer emergency save
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01:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command
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01:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
01:43<nielsm>and now off to work, bye again!
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02:38<andythenorth>why are running costs so high on the coop server
02:38<andythenorth>it's weird
02:38<andythenorth>setting is 'low'
02:38<andythenorth>but Horse run costs are 3x what I get locally with 'medium'
02:46<@peter1138>inflation is on
02:46<@peter1138>Apparently it is impossible to make money with it on, but it seems not.
02:47<andythenorth>so it is
02:47<andythenorth>haven't used that for years
02:47<andythenorth>Horse Feature: Works With Inflation
02:55<andythenorth>yeah inflation nerfed all my freight trains
03:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN dismissed a review for pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
03:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful.
03:03<Eddi|zuHause>with inflation for 170 years,, running costs are about 5 times higher relative to income
03:11<@peter1138>Yeah it's not be 170 years year :)
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04:01<@planetmaker>hangars need a "sort by size" filtering. For on small airports I don't want to build big planes
04:01<@planetmaker>and I have to read each plane's text to know whether it is small or big
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04:28<Eddi|zuHause>i agree
04:29<Eddi|zuHause>a similar step would be, in a train depot, to only show electric engines
04:30<Eddi|zuHause>not sure how to make that sensibly usable with newgrf railtypes
04:33<@peter1138>What does this achieve?
04:34<@peter1138>(And why is there a giant table with no other notes in the omments...)
04:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash …
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04:37<Eddi|zuHause>how do i link a to revision/hash?
04:40<@peter1138>Just write the hash. Full or abbreviated, it will work it out.
04:41<Eddi|zuHause>ah, ok
04:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash …
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05:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash …
05:02<Eddi|zuHause>i hope that makes it a bit clearer what everyone wanted to achieve
06:01<@peter1138>So you change "plane crashes: none" to be "plane crashes: none except large aircraft on small airports"
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>something like that, yes
06:02<@peter1138>And samu just adds that as an additional option.
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>i'm a bit hesitant on that, because it feels like too wordy for the settings list
06:03<@peter1138>But you also increase the chance.
06:03<@peter1138>(for reduced)
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07:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
07:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command
07:20<@peter1138>Nearly lunch time.
07:20<andythenorth>that was ages ago
07:21<@peter1138>Well... not fo me.
07:32<@peter1138>I ate my mini-salad.
07:39<andythenorth>I ate wheat-free toast
07:39<andythenorth>it's crap
07:39<andythenorth>I had some more
07:39<andythenorth>still crap
07:40<@peter1138>I've got a Lancashire oven bottom muffin. Which is actually just a soft white roll...
07:41<@peter1138>Crazy Lancastrians, I guess.
07:57<andythenorth>FIRS Furniture Factory, what does it produce though?
08:03<andythenorth>what cargo unit for that? o_O
08:03<andythenorth>and is the plural DFS?
08:03<andythenorth>or DFSS
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>don't make the cargo label IKEA :p
08:22<@planetmaker>5 pieces = 1 furniture :P
08:26<andythenorth>IKEA is a great label
08:26<andythenorth>anything that starts "don't..." is hard to resist
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i relalized :p
08:29<@planetmaker>it definitely would be a cargo label which is remembered easily
08:31<andythenorth>it is a scandi economy also
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09:05<Eddi|zuHause>looks like space engineers isn't going to run under wine :/
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09:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7302: Change: make crash chance at short runway independent of plane crash …
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09:26<Samu>omg these warnings are so pointless!
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09:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7290: Change: Disallow taking over AI companies in multiplayer
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09:35<Eddi|zuHause>no. they're not pointless. you just don't understand them
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09:40<Samu>I lost count how many times I've had to fix parenthesis
09:41<Samu>and none of them changed anything
09:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save.
09:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7190: Fix #7188: AI instance crash when reloading AI in a server, and an AI…
09:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Change: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
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09:56<@peter1138>They certainly do.
09:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command
09:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7167: Reset ai gs non anchored settings
09:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command
09:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command
10:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7104: Fix #5405: Aircraft could route to depots outside their range
10:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7290: Change: Disallow taking over AI companies in multiplayer
10:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7094: Fix #7088: Retrieve an appropriate name for a non-existant AI/GS when displaying a textfile
10:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7078: Feature: Raise a corner of land automatically when building aqueducts
10:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation
10:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation
10:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7290: Change: Disallow taking over AI companies in multiplayer
10:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
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10:26<Samu>the variable names?
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10:27<Samu>I have no other way
10:27<Samu>what kind of names do you want
10:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
10:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>probably a bunch of mistakes in that...
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10:31<@peter1138>What is it even for?
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, but lots of times people told us "there's nothing going on because there's no news on the website"
10:32<@peter1138>So it's going to the website. I didn't realise it was still the first one, as it's... now March.
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>yes, we should probably finalize it and publish it... anyone volunteering? :p
10:34<@peter1138>7141 is likely to make 1.9 I think.
10:34<@peter1138>No, that's an error. It's not 7141.
10:35<Samu>how would you name my variables?
10:35<@peter1138>It's 7147, Eddi|zuHause
10:36<@peter1138>Not like that Samu.
10:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
10:37<Samu>the screenshot with the variable positions won't help?
10:38<@peter1138>Mmm, Oreo cookie...
10:38<Samu>because I don't know of a better way to name them
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>so who wanted to do that merged-PR-list? LordAro?
10:40<Samu>this big names?
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10:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
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10:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
11:00<Beerbelott>Oh OK I got something about command-line switches... loading compressed files is not supported
11:00<Beerbelott>like u can do through the GUI
11:00<Beerbelott>Can't those behaviours be unified?
11:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>Beerbelott: huh? any more details?
11:08<Gabda>nielsm: it seems like a nice idea
11:09<Gabda>this doesn't require much caching, and can calculated really fast
11:10<nielsm>I just had to check one thing:
11:10<nielsm>if a town builds roads that are nearer to another town, and you then build a road stop on those roads, which town will the road stop belong to?
11:10<nielsm>answer: owner of the road
11:11<Beerbelott>Eddi|zuHause: I downloaded ~/.openttd/content_download/scenario/Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4.tar
11:11<Beerbelott>When trying to load that w/ CLI switch -g, it failed
11:12<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: didn't we decide a merged pr list wasn't worth it?
11:12<Beerbelott>uncompressing the \.scn file in the tar archive did the trick
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: i haven't been part of that conversation
11:12<Beerbelott>Although, ingame, you can load the scenario from the GUI file explorer w/o uncompressing it
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>Beerbelott: the game treats the tar like a directory and scans the files inside the tar, so you need some syntax to specify the file inside the tar
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>dunno if that exists
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: was that always the case, or is that some change you did?
11:15<Beerbelott>Tried openttd -g Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4.tar/Fallout_1_2_3_T_Game.scn to no avail
11:15<nielsm>Eddi|zuHause I did not touch that
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>Beerbelott: there are probably subfolders inside the tar
11:17<Beerbelott>Oh yeah right I'm dumb
11:17<Beerbelott>ofc there is
11:18<Beerbelott>Well Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4.tar/Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4/Fallout_1_2_3_T_Game.scn failed too, and this time the path, considering the tar archive as a dir, is correct
11:18<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: well, if you feel like picking through the list for notable stuff, is a list of all PRs merged since 02/01
11:18<nielsm>yes this is profitable :D
11:18<LordAro>(in markdown form)
11:19<Beerbelott>Oh my! Found it!
11:19<Beerbelott>You need not to specify the tar
11:19<Beerbelott>openttd -g Fallout_123_game_map_scenario-4/Fallout_1_2_3_T_Game.scn works
11:19<Beerbelott>but that means you know the contents of the tar archive...
11:20<LordAro>one imagines that if you can use commandline flags, you can also run `tar tf foobar.tar`
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but a tar file could contain more than one scenario. while bananas downloads won't, the game could happily process manually created ones
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>so you can't just substitute a tar file with the files in it
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>and expect the game to do any sane thing with it
11:23<Beerbelott>the tar contains:
11:23<Beerbelott>I tried to use the name in the title, did not work
11:23<Beerbelott>sad, since that's sth available from console
11:23<Beerbelott>could help to have a similar interface on cli as on console
11:24<Beerbelott>at least for file lists
11:28<nielsm>Gabda: I just looked into what it would take to have "nearest town" in that concept show which station would be joined if one would (without using Ctrl distant join), and it looks like it would be very annoying to do :)
11:29<nielsm>(so if you had any ideas in that direction, probably just leave them at the idea stage)
11:29<@peter1138>So, er...
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: that list collapses to about 8 pretty quickly
11:31<Eddi|zuHause><LordAro> one imagines that if you can use commandline flags, you can also run `tar tf foobar.tar` <-- you're forgetting
11:35<@peter1138>I guess k-d tree is always going to be slower than direct map storage.
11:35<nielsm>peter1138 yeah, it's still a tree traversal
11:35<nielsm>it mainly wins on memory usage and possibly being cheaper to rebuild
11:35<Gabda>nielsm: until your kd-tree is not merged, I don't plan to build anything on top of that
11:36<@peter1138>100ms is quite a lot :/
11:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe dismissed a review for pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command
11:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe updated pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command
11:36<nielsm>Gabda, this could be built on top of just CalcClosestTownFromTile and nothing else :)
11:37<@peter1138>Hmm, I should add town roads to my catchment visualisation?
11:37<Gabda>but 100 ms is lot only if you have to repeat it often
11:38<Samu>Santa Margarida de Terrabaixa South?
11:39<Samu>if it's Terrabaixa, it doesn't need South
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11:39<Samu>baixa already implies it's towards south
11:39<nielsm>there's about 2100 tiles visible on a 1920x1080 display at default zoom
11:40<nielsm>Samu tell that to the Catalan town name generator
11:40<Gabda>i corrected the number of tiles, as the multiplication sign disappeared from my post
11:40<nielsm>(I'm using it because it generates very long names)
11:41<Samu>ah, it's part of the town name
11:41<Samu>nevermind then
11:41<Gabda>wheb max zoomed out,it is about 2x256x256
11:41<nielsm>131k tiles
11:41<nielsm>ouch :)
11:42<@peter1138>I should get myself a 5K screen to test on ;)
11:42<nielsm>so looking up for an 81 tile area (9x9) would be essentially zero cost
11:43<Gabda>yes, you could spam that
11:43<Gabda>even if you have to calc the borders there
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: do we have a changelog anywhere that we could link?
11:45<@Alberth>usually next to the latest release
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: but is that uptodate for the betas?
11:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation
11:48<@Alberth>I'd expect up to date to the release :)
11:48<nielsm>this sounds sick :D
11:49<nielsm>result of a sound canvas not properly reset after something else messed with some parameters
11:49<@Alberth>Unless someone is now tracking updates of the betas, I don't think it exists
11:49<nielsm>especially past the 1 minute mark
11:51<Gabda>so t is a bug or a feature? :)
11:51<Gabda>*is it
11:51<nielsm>working as designed :P
11:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
11:52<nielsm>also working as designed, I think:
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>i guess the bridge thing isn't in the beta?
11:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>we might need to rephrase that a bit, any suggestions?
11:54<nielsm>ponies? participate yourself?
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: always delegate the work to someone else :p
11:56<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: beta3 changelog is uptodate with beta3, yes :)
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, i guess i failed at the delegation part today :p
11:59*LordAro wonders if the nightly changelog being blank is known about
11:59<@peter1138>I should delegate my patch making to someone else.
12:00<@peter1138>Then I'd be able to approve them ;p
12:00<@peter1138>Also, it's 17:00
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's 18:00
12:00<@peter1138>See you on the other side.
12:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
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12:03<Samu>who's an expert at giving variable names?
12:03<Samu>need help
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause>that is some strange comma placement...
12:05<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: the idea is that the bit in the middle could be removed and the sentence still works
12:05<LordAro>like parens
12:06<Samu>in the meantime I'm testing ship penalties
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it just feels very... unnatural
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>like you're adding a breathing pause to a place that doesn't really need one
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>maybe my breathing pattern is off :p
12:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
12:07<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, commas probably aren't necessary at all
12:08<LordAro>(parenthetical commas, if you want to google)
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12:08<nielsm>nasty tricks?
12:09<Samu>peter1138, I think the 90 degrees penalty need to be smaller
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if any grammar guides agree with me, but i always think of "and if" as more like a single functional word, so i have some hesitations to put a comma between them
12:10<Samu> ship wants to go to depot
12:11<Samu>after exiting docks
12:12<Samu>unless that's the intention for 180 degrees
12:13<Samu>avoids two 90 degrees altogether
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>with my comma placement the hierarchical structure of the sentence feels more like "A A A A, B B B B, C C C C" whereas yours is more like "A A A A B, C C C, B B B B"
12:14<Samu>ah i see
12:14<Samu>you mimic rail penalty
12:16<Samu>i'm testing 500
12:17<Samu>makes 1 90 degrees turn, then two 45 turns
12:17<Samu>with 600 it completely avoids 90 degrees, takes the long path with 45 turns
12:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7289: Add: Configurable ship curve penalties (YAPF)
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: that is some truely deep magic
12:29<+glx>it's clearly magic indeed
12:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7271: Cleanup: Ships can always make 90° turns (it's even realistic)
12:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed pull request #7271: Cleanup: Ships can always make 90° turns (it's even realistic)
12:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7289: Add: Configurable ship curve penalties (YAPF)
12:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot opened pull request #24: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
12:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot commented on pull request #22: Scheduled monthly dependency update for February
12:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot closed pull request #22: Scheduled monthly dependency update for February
12:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot opened pull request #19: Scheduled monthly dependency update for March
12:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot commented on pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for February
12:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot closed pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for February
12:45<Samu>Gabda, nielsm are you doing anything about signs? AIs spam signs and they can slow down a lot when too many
12:46<Gabda>nielsm's kdtree will solve that
12:46<Samu>oh cool
12:47<Samu>they create and remove really often
12:47<Samu>the so called pathfind debug signs
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12:48<nielsm>well I'm not sure if it will be a performance hit to have them added/removed from the viewport sign index all the time
12:48<nielsm>since that might trigger some bad rebuilding
12:51<Samu>AIAI is a good sign spammer if you enable AI debug settings and set up all debug signs options
12:52<LordAro>TrueBrain: you should fix up those DorpsGek_II dependencies :p
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12:55<Samu>just having the Sign list window open, i get slowdowns
12:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
12:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh requested changes for pull request #7261: Add: Road vehicle path cache.
13:11<Samu>where do i post sign slowdowns?
13:12<nielsm>it's no more an issue than having a ton of stations is an issue
13:12<nielsm>either makes drawing viewports slow because of viewport signs
13:13<Samu>waiting for the ai to create 64000 signs
13:13<Samu>then i post
13:15<Samu>hmmm loks like it wont reach 64000
13:18<Samu>4.2 seconds stall each time is added
13:18<Samu>ok 61700 signs, ought to be enough
13:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7303: AI Sign List slowdowns the more signs there are
13:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7303: AI Sign List slowdowns the more signs there are
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13:28<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: If this is about "and if all goes according to plan", LordAro's commas are right :P
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>FLHerne: i didn't question that, but they still feel strange
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13:29<FLHerne>The original ones are definitely wrong, but would be also-right if the second one was dropped
13:29<FLHerne>English :D
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure i'd be having the same discussion if it were a german text
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13:46<Samu>found the problem! QSortT(this->data, this->items, compare, desc);
13:46<Samu>this is where the stalls come from
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13:51<Samu>gee 70 seconds in debug mode
14:02<@peter1138>Samu, 17:09 < Samu> peter1138, I think the 90 degrees penalty need to be smaller
14:03<@peter1138>Samu, suggest a value :)
14:03<Samu>500 looked about right, i posted a screenshot in the topic
14:03<@peter1138>It probably wants to be smaller.
14:04<@peter1138>57897 signs... yeah that'll be slow.
14:05<Samu>FormatString is what's slowing donw
14:05<Samu>then some Deque
14:05<Samu>whatever deque is
14:05<@peter1138>deque is a stack-type thing.
14:06<Samu>called by formatstring
14:06<@peter1138>Hmm. Possibly for the colour changing stuff.
14:08<Samu>95% of the time
14:08<Samu>GetString(buf, STR_SIGN_NAME, lastof(buf));
14:08<Samu>on SignNameSorter
14:09<Samu>doesn't look like it's QSortT afterall
14:09<@peter1138>What if you close the sign-list window?
14:10<Samu>then it runs fine enough
14:10<@peter1138>SignNameSorter is called by QSort, so...
14:12<nielsm>what if QSortT is replaced with std::sort
14:12<nielsm>(it can't be replaced 1:1 but it should be possible)
14:14<@peter1138>Which AI created that many signs?
14:14<@peter1138>I think maybe we should just limit it :p
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>5000 trucks, 5000 trains, 5000 signs?
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>(per company)
14:16<Samu>while pathfinding
14:16<Samu>the limit is 64000
14:16<Samu>it nearly reached it
14:16<Samu>on the first train route
14:16<@peter1138>Are they debug signs?
14:17<@peter1138>So who cares?
14:17<Samu>hmm :(
14:18<@peter1138>Placing signs is going to slow down the pathfinding massively.
14:18<nielsm>how about if the number of signs that would be on the list is larger than (example) 5k then just don't sort it and don't offer the option to sort it
14:19<Samu>AIAI likes debug signs
14:19<@peter1138>nielsm, I'm thinking something like I did for station catchment...
14:19<@peter1138>nielsm, keep the sorted list around and just do a sorted insert.
14:20<nielsm>do we need to add global signal event handlers? "OnNewSignCreated" etc
14:20<@peter1138>No what have invalidate window data for that.
14:21<nielsm>how will you know which sign was new then, to insert it in the gui's sorted list?
14:21<@peter1138>Also that window should not bother doing anything if it's rolled up.
14:21<@peter1138>invalidate window data takes parameters :)
14:22<@peter1138>You invalidate a specific class/type of window with whatever user data you want.
14:22<@peter1138>I think it only takes an integer, but only because nobody ever needed to extend it.
14:22<@peter1138>But that's enough for a sign id
14:25<Samu>sorted insert, interesting
14:25<Samu>what about the opposite?
14:25<Samu>sorted remove?
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14:25<nielsm>if the list is sorted then you can do a binary search in it to find the item index to remove
14:26<nielsm>peter1138: have you fixed the circling road vehicles yet? :)
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14:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7261: Add: Road vehicle path cache.
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14:30<nielsm>see the review I left on your rv path caching
14:30<@peter1138>That's weird.
14:31<@peter1138>However I just put some sausages in the oven, and I'm now nursing a beer.
14:32<nielsm>I should get myself some fluids too
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14:34<@peter1138>That sign window does a sort periodically. I guess that's probably not necessary.
14:36<Samu>gonna try release build instead, brb
14:38<@peter1138>Damn it, FFWD is too fast :-)
14:40<Samu>it continues to be FormatString and Deque stuff
14:40<@peter1138>That's not the real problem.
14:41<nielsm>FormatString is because it's.... preparing text for being displayed
14:41<@peter1138>They are using CPU time purely because they are being called a lot during the sort operation.
14:41<@peter1138>Not display, just sorting :-)
14:41<@peter1138>Display is perfectly fine.
14:42<@peter1138>Maybe if you have a big enough screen to see 50,000k signs in the list at once...
14:42<@peter1138>Even then, that's probably okay.
14:42<@peter1138>I wonder if it's possible to just sort on the sign text and ignore the format string.
14:42<@peter1138>I mean, signs don't have a default value do they?
14:43<nielsm>strings can only have user entered text
14:43<nielsm>signs can*
14:43<nielsm>and there is no localisation on them
14:44<@peter1138>That should be a lot faster.
14:44<@peter1138>I'll try it quickly :-)
14:45<nielsm>but why is it using a deque?
14:45<Samu>it's inside FormatString
14:45<nielsm>oh the deque is used by formatting?
14:45<@peter1138>nielsm, colour changes are stack-based.
14:45<@peter1138>It's a very small stack.
14:46<@peter1138>But because it's called so often...
14:46<nielsm>but it's a stack not a queue
14:46<nielsm>so a vector would better
14:46<@peter1138>std::stack is a stack
14:46<nielsm>that's an adapter for something else isn't it...
14:47<@peter1138> std::stack<const char *> str_stack;
14:47<@peter1138>std::stack is implemented with a std::deque, I think.
14:47<nielsm>but the main use case for std::deque should be if you need to add/remove elements from the front of the collection
14:47<@peter1138>It's a stack...
14:48<nielsm>hence deque sounds really wrong
14:48<@peter1138>Sorry, what are you getting at?
14:48<nielsm>use use std::vector::push_back(), std::vector::back() and std::vector::pop_back()
14:48<@peter1138>^ it uses std::deque internally.
14:48<nielsm>I don't understand why STL does that then
14:49<nielsm>when going down to micro-optimisations, vector is usually preferable to deque
14:50<@peter1138>You can change std::stack to use a std::vector
14:50<nielsm>maybe try std::stack<T, std::vector<T>>
14:51<@peter1138>Annoying, I can't get AIAI to pathfind :p
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14:51<@peter1138>Only 962 signs
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14:52<@peter1138>Ah, it doesn't use trains unless there's industries...
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14:54<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder how colour codes will affect it.
14:54<@peter1138>Can there even be sigh codes in a sign?
14:55<@peter1138>Okay, I need to turn off lto :-)
14:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7304: Codechange: Need need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with
14:57<@peter1138>Samu, ^^ try that.
14:57<@peter1138>Erm, that should be NO need. ..
14:58<@peter1138>Of course, Samu is probably engrossed in trying to find out why FormatString is so slow...
14:58<@peter1138>Samu, Samu Samu
14:58<@peter1138>These sausages smell nice.
14:59<@peter1138>Hickory smoked :-)
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15:02<nielsm>okay so there _is_ a default sign name
15:02<nielsm>which is STR_DEFAULT_SIGN_NAME
15:03<nielsm>and it will be used if sign->name is NULL
15:03<nielsm>it's probably worth ignoring that case
15:05<nielsm>or perhaps worth handling it specially...
15:06<@peter1138>FormatString will be copying characters and validating stuff everywhere.
15:06<nielsm>what I really do not get is this:
15:07<nielsm>it formats a string using the format string that just copies a raw string
15:07<nielsm>so those three lines are an extremely expensive way of doing strdup
15:07<nielsm>or just strncpy
15:07<@peter1138>Fix it ;)
15:07<@peter1138>Not with those functions though.
15:08<@peter1138>There's a specific custom one for copying strings that uses lastof rather than lengthof.
15:09<@peter1138>Ok, it's slowing down now
15:09<nielsm>it used to be strecpy
15:09<@peter1138>20k signs.
15:10<@peter1138>Who the heck did that...
15:10<@peter1138>Of course, samu running it in a debug compile wouldn't help.
15:11<@peter1138>I'm seeing ~20ms with 21k signs.
15:11<nielsm>I don't understand what that has to do with needing everything to go through FormatString
15:11<nielsm>oh... resolving ScriptText objects?
15:11<nielsm>it can be weird objects like that?
15:15<@peter1138>26k signs, 23ms
15:16<@peter1138>Hmm, a sorted insert for strings could keep a cache of where to start for specific characters.
15:17<@peter1138>Oops, the AI crashed :-)
15:21<nielsm>ping TrueBrain, do you remember why this is necessary?
15:22<nielsm>(it's only been 7 years and change!)
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15:26<supermop_work_>yo yo yo
15:35<@peter1138>Yeah, mega-stalls with the sign list open without the 'fix'
15:36<@peter1138>If there are control codes in the string, they will still be there when it is formatted, right?
15:36<@peter1138>Otherwise they'd have no effect, heh.
15:37<@peter1138>I guess we should handle the null case.
15:40<nielsm>ok, looking further through this I really don't see a way e.g. a sign name could become a non-real char pointer
15:41<nielsm>ScriptSign::SetName specifically has whatever Text object it receives decoded into a plaing C string
15:54<LordAro>nielsm: looks like it might be a find & replace thing
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16:11<TrueBrain>nielsm: poeh, daring question there :D
16:13<TrueBrain>I think it was to avoid styles leaking through, but ...... not really sure :P
16:15<TrueBrain>not even sure why it is in that commit, tbh
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>so, did we release the blog post yet?
16:19<LordAro>2.5 hours left until the file needs to be renamed :p
16:20<nielsm>I should maybe get derail valley?
16:22<@peter1138>Hmm, strange, the pathfinder has a trackdir for a tile which has no junction on it.
16:22<TrueBrain>so merge it, and release a new version of the website (after you seen the merge land on staging and it looked fine, ofc)
16:23<TrueBrain>nielsm: I got the logs around that time, let me read what we wrote about that patch ..
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>don't forget to add a new temp file (that we linked to at the bottom)
16:23<TrueBrain>after the merge, yes
16:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
16:25<andythenorth>pipemania? o_O
16:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
16:27<@peter1138>Got a test GRF for #7147?
16:27<TrueBrain>nielsm: even after reading the conversations around that time, nobody asked anything about that part :P It was part of a 40-patch commit
16:28<TrueBrain>seems I had issues with a few things: UTF-8 (seems unrelated), AI that did {} in strings (pissing off the formatter), and "getting it to work"
16:28<TrueBrain>so yeah, no clue :D I tried!
16:28<@peter1138>It doesn't look obivously wrong, and it's not "wrong" just pointless, I think :-)
16:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
16:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with
16:29<LordAro>i'm happy with it now
16:30<TrueBrain>my personal IRC logs only date back to sept 2012 .. so I don't know if there were any PMs about this :P
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16:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019
16:34<@peter1138>Oh dear, this camembert has pink patches... might be time to throw it...
16:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
16:37<TrueBrain>nielsm: the more I think about it, the more I think it was to avoid control codes to leak through; possibly not for all entries, but things like President Name, etc. But I might be completely off here :) For sure it is a weird commit, but given it was in a chain of 40, I can imagine some shortcuts were taken :D
16:37<TrueBrain>owh well, enough cycles spend on this :D
16:38<TrueBrain> <- holy crap, that news article looks ugly
16:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
16:38<nielsm>to me it looks almost opposite, like it would allow user-entered strings to contain insert codes
16:38<LordAro>TrueBrain: oof
16:39<TrueBrain>nielsm: the RAW_STRING thingy should prevent that, not? Owh well, no clue :P
16:39<TrueBrain>talking shit, properly
16:39<@peter1138>Does RAW_STRING strip stuff, or just copy?
16:39<@peter1138>Okay, this brie is looking better. It's just white.
16:40<TrueBrain>LordAro: even if I remove the screenshot and give the space to the post, it looks VERY ugly
16:40<TrueBrain>but better, at least
16:40<TrueBrain>well, it would look like this:
16:40<TrueBrain>possibly we just need a <more> button
16:41<LordAro>mm, not great
16:41<LordAro>site redesign, anyone? :D
16:41<TrueBrain>yeah ...
16:42<TrueBrain>for now, what we can do, is to add a "read more" button, where we only have the first alinea on the front page?
16:42<LordAro>that'll help, i think
16:42<@peter1138>Uhm... is it okay to stuff a trackdir and a tile into a 32bit int?
16:42<nielsm>tile is 24 bit
16:43<@peter1138>Until someone wants 8192x8192 maps ;(
16:43<LordAro>peter1138: for what purpose? :p
16:43<@peter1138>road vehicle path cache.
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16:44<@peter1138>Needed to detect if the path is invalid.
16:44<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe I could store segment length.
16:44<LordAro>i feel bitstuffing shouldn't be done unless there's a demonstrateable performance increase
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>sounds over the top to me
16:45<@peter1138>LordAro, it's saveloaded, and can only be a single value unless I rewrite SLDEQUE.
16:45<LordAro>oh, we're talking saveload here, rather than "at runtime" ?
16:46<@peter1138>It's a value that is saved.
16:46<@peter1138>The saveload code doesn't handle a struct at this point.
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think the runtime layout should be dictated by saveload
16:46<LordAro>i think this is a separate question, but why are the caches saveloaded? why aren't they just regenerated on load?
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>i'd rather update the saveload code
16:47<@peter1138>LordAro, server would need to invalidate its caches when it saves, which is a bit weird.
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: map might have changed?
16:47<LordAro>doesn't have to invalidate them? just doesn't save them in the first place
16:48<LordAro>why would it need to invalidate its caches?
16:48<@peter1138>It has a cache, if they're not saved, it has to invalidate its local copy.
16:48<+glx>TrueBrain: is it ok to add some debugging messages in cmake to see the detected includes and libraries in the CI ?
16:48<@peter1138>It's a pathfinder result.
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: after loading on the client, the client must recreate the exact same cache state as the server.
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: since the situation is different now, that cannot be guaranteed
16:48<LordAro>ah, right
16:49<@peter1138>It's more important for RVs than ships, as well.
16:49<@peter1138>Towns are adding/removing road pieces all the time.
16:49<TrueBrain>glx: of course; no need to ask these things :)
16:50<+glx>oh and I opened some PRs on your branch ;)
16:51<@peter1138>Hmm, actually
16:52<Samu>oh, sorry, I was dinner
16:52<@peter1138>I could make RoadVehPathCache be a struct containing two std::deques.
16:52<TrueBrain>glx: I noticed
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>really, i'd rather work on extending the saveload
16:52<TrueBrain>owh, we didn't mention CMake in dev post
16:53<LordAro>TrueBrain: well, it's still on staging... :p
16:53<TrueBrain>meh, for next month
16:53<TrueBrain>possibly we can even ask people to test it by then
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a better idea :p
16:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #66: Add: "read more" link for large posts on the frontpage
16:53<TrueBrain>first, this
16:54<TrueBrain>and someone needs to enable: remove whitespace on save
16:54<TrueBrain>as seriously
16:54<TrueBrain>wasting bytes like that
16:55<LordAro>oh nice, it's built into jekyll
16:55<LordAro>i was wondering where the functionality was :p
16:55<TrueBrain>Jekyll has a lot of stuff .. just not everything is very easy to find :)
16:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #66: Add: "read more" link for large posts on the frontpage
16:56<Samu>ok let me test
16:59<TrueBrain>glx: no clue if you see the comment I placed in
16:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #66: Add: "read more" link for large posts on the frontpage
16:59<@peter1138>Hmm, need to make a new test save now :)
16:59<TrueBrain>glx: but I cannot believe if that commit really works :P
16:59<LordAro>peter1138: we definitely need to collect these test saves together
17:00<TrueBrain>glx: ah, it indeed doesn't work :P Bad glx, not testing before pushing :D
17:01<TrueBrain>glx: one thing that might be nice to know: it is often better to remove your build directory with cmake; because of its cache, otherwise you might not spot amistake you made, because your cache fixes it :)
17:01<TrueBrain>just as a "good to know" :)
17:02<@peter1138>LordAro, it's only because I changed the saveload now. Two deques so that I don't have to bitstuff.
17:02<@peter1138>A little ugly.
17:02<@peter1138>I'll probably revert it once I figure out the correct incantation of yapf.
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>how do i see that "read more" link in action?
17:02<LordAro>it was more of a general comment
17:03<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: wait until staging updates
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>does it take this long?
17:03<TrueBrain>clearly, it does
17:03<TrueBrain>I mean ..
17:03<LordAro>"Platform/MINGW64_NT-10.0 to use this system, please send your config file to so it can be added to cmake"
17:03<LordAro>well that's disappointing
17:03<TrueBrain>but yeah, it just hit staging
17:04<TrueBrain>LordAro: :o
17:04<TrueBrain>update cmake? :P
17:04<LordAro>literally just installed it :p
17:04<TrueBrain>okay, it is a lot better now (frontpage)
17:04<TrueBrain>installing doesn't mean you cannot update it
17:04<TrueBrain>you might have installed a VERY old version :P
17:05<TrueBrain>everyone okay with staging like this?
17:06<LordAro>TrueBrain: nope, still on 3.13
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably fine, the first paragraph could have been a bit more elaborate with that in mind, but... it's good enough i guess
17:06<TrueBrain>for next month! :)
17:07<LordAro>ah i see, i've installed the wrong version
17:07<TrueBrain>will be on production in a jiffy
17:07<TrueBrain>possibly good to post this on twitter and tt-forums too
17:07<TrueBrain>(CC planetmaker)
17:08<Samu>wow must faster indeed
17:08<TrueBrain>that's what she said
17:08<Samu>gonna wait for 60k signs
17:09<Samu>already sensing the stalls at 9k signs, 60 ms
17:10<Samu>170 ms at 20k signs
17:10<Samu>that's 6 fps :(
17:12<@peter1138>Yes, it's still slow, but it's much faster.
17:12<TrueBrain>planetmaker: possibly nice if you can put on twitter? :D
17:13<TrueBrain>someone else can make a tt-forums post :)
17:13<TrueBrain>@all: :)
17:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
17:14<Samu>it's becoming unbearable at 37k signs
17:14<Samu>mouse movement ... :(
17:15<@peter1138>Yeah so the issue is sorting it is slow, just because sorting is slow.
17:15<+glx>LordAro: it works here I just use 'cmake -G"MSYS Makefiles" ..' from the mingw terminal
17:16<Samu>isn't there insert sort?
17:16<nielsm>Samu is that a debug or a release build? because I imagine a debug build can make a recursive algorithm like quicksort quite bad
17:16<LordAro>glx: yeah, i just had to install the mingw version, rather than the msys version
17:16<Samu>release build, but still attached to visual studio
17:16<LordAro>and then make a small modification as i don't have timidity installed
17:16<@peter1138>Samu, non-rect-catchment has that.
17:17<Samu>let me detatch
17:17<+glx>LordAro: the timidity error is fixed now (was a mistake in my previous commit)
17:17<@peter1138>But it is probably not appropriate.
17:17<@peter1138>That's a std::set, which may well be slower.
17:18<Samu>didn't make a difference
17:18<@peter1138>Doesn't matter there, no town has 37k stations near it :p
17:18<@peter1138>Someone will probably prove me wrong there.
17:19<LordAro>glx: version string being broken is known, right?
17:19<Samu>oh snap, pathfinder found a way
17:19<Samu>no more signs
17:19<+glx>on the CI ?
17:19<TrueBrain>LordAro: "broken", how lovely verbose :)
17:19<+glx>because locally it works for me
17:19<Samu>oh, still pathfinding, without deleting previous signs
17:19<TrueBrain>what if more broke than he knows should be broken? :P
17:19<LordAro>-- Version string: 20190301--gaf88160bf9
17:20<TrueBrain>so on the CI there is no branch; that is known?
17:20<LordAro>yeah, but this is locally
17:20<TrueBrain>so you are a detached head
17:20<TrueBrain>you peanut
17:20<LordAro>oh, so i do
17:20<LordAro>how did that happen?
17:20<TrueBrain>do you really want us to answer that? :D
17:20<+glx>because version stuff is a total conversion of based on your work
17:20<TrueBrain>owh SNAP
17:21<TrueBrain>shots fired
17:21<Samu>52,500 signs atm
17:21<+glx>most of it is just a direct copy paste ;)
17:22<Samu>poor AIAI
17:23<LordAro>right, there we go
17:23<LordAro>still broken because of SDL, but i can probably manage to fix that myself
17:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7303: AI Sign List slowdowns the more signs there are
17:24<TrueBrain>GwydToday at 11:20 PM
17:24<TrueBrain>The new NewGRF stuff sounds interesting
17:24<TrueBrain>This section in particular: "This should allow for graphical changes like whether or not pantographs are raised. Ideally, you would not only be able to query the speed limit of the railtype, but a collection of all speed limits currently affecting the train (like bridges, curves, station approach, etc.) and whether the train has reached any of thes
17:24<TrueBrain>e. If you have ideas how to use this in a set, please tell us."
17:24<TrueBrain>So theoretically we could change things about the train based on its speed relative to the speed limit?
17:24<TrueBrain>Like graphics, visual effects etc?
17:25<TrueBrain>Also could you ask if it could query the speed limit imposed by the timetable?
17:25<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I expect answers! :P
17:25<@peter1138>Timetables have speed limits?
17:25<LordAro>@seen andythenorth
17:25<@DorpsGek>LordAro: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 hour and 14 seconds ago: <andythenorth> pipemania? o_O
17:27<TrueBrain>that is not a helpful answer andythenorth :(
17:27<andythenorth>[I have nothing right now]
17:27<Samu>about 612 ms stalls at 62,600 signs
17:27*andythenorth reading dev post
17:27<Samu>nearly reaching the limit
17:29<Samu>no more stalls, AIAI is mad about not being able to place signs
17:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
17:31<andythenorth>I don't see any MMO tank games mentioned there
17:31<andythenorth>we should change that
17:31<TrueBrain>but any clue about Gwyd's question ?
17:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there's still next month :p
17:34<andythenorth>and a "drive the train" mode
17:34<TrueBrain>I feel like andythenorth is ignoring me :P
17:35<andythenorth>no I just don't know the answer :)
17:35<TrueBrain>so who does! :P
17:35<andythenorth>and I have been a good person for 5 days straight for $reasons
17:35<TrueBrain>bad NewGRF nerd :P
17:35<andythenorth>I am out of good :P
17:35<TrueBrain>5 whole days?!
17:35<TrueBrain>holy crap
17:35<TrueBrain>also on your dayjob?
17:35<andythenorth>yeah family stuff and work
17:35<TrueBrain>holy mozy
17:35<TrueBrain>I have not been a good boy at work :P
17:35<TrueBrain>I always fail the second minute I am in the office
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>you last that long? :p
17:36<TrueBrain>yeah, the first minute I am picking up a coca cola from the fridge
17:36<TrueBrain>so .. there is that
17:36<andythenorth>ok so changing visual stuff, I don't know how often the vars are updated
17:37<andythenorth>and timetables, I don't understand at all, they're just broken afaik
17:37<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how often are railtype vars updated? o_O
17:37<andythenorth>when tracktype changes?
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: at least every time the railtype changes
17:38<andythenorth>it's tracktype
17:38<andythenorth>but yeah ok
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17:38<andythenorth>railtypes have railtypes, but vehicles have tracktypes
17:38<andythenorth>because $reasons
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like the same word to me
17:38<andythenorth>that doesn't catch me out every single time ever
17:38<TrueBrain>GwydToday at 11:35 PM
17:38<TrueBrain>I know how it could be used
17:38<TrueBrain>Mainly just the rail speed limit and not speed limits specifically for bridges curves etc
17:38<TrueBrain>In the UK freight trains or trains worked by locomotives (as opposed to multiple units) have lower speed limits in some instances
17:38<TrueBrain>So it could just say like
17:38<TrueBrain>Go a bit less than the speed limit
17:38<TrueBrain>now I am done playing proxy
17:39<andythenorth>yeah, where is Gwyd?
17:39<andythenorth>oh dear
17:39<TrueBrain>so now you have to andythenorth!
17:39<TrueBrain>you really do!
17:39<@peter1138>Just tell them to use IRC.
17:39<andythenorth>do we all do push-to-talk?
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17:42<andythenorth>issues 77, PRs 58
17:42<andythenorth>the crossover gets closer
17:42<andythenorth>TrueBrain: give gwy this?
17:43<TrueBrain>he is going to post on the forums
17:43<TrueBrain>I am not your guys monkey :P
17:44<TrueBrain>proxies the message andythenorth :)
17:45<TrueBrain>peter1138: you are a silly goose :)
17:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
17:46<@peter1138>Not really.
17:46<@peter1138>So by "our discord" you meant the "reddit discord"
17:47<TrueBrain>I never said "our" or "reddit"
17:47<TrueBrain>but pm was pretty specific about it being the /r/openttd Discord
17:47<+glx>debug message and make verbose help a lot to find what's wrong
17:47<@peter1138>I've left now.
17:47<LordAro>TrueBrain: any ideas why it was this way?
17:47<@peter1138>I can't be dealing with that :p
17:48<TrueBrain>glx: pro-tip, mark them as TODO with a comment next time :) Means we won't forget removing them ;)
17:48<TrueBrain>and if they help, leave them in for now :)
17:48<+glx>sdl is dynamically loaded on windows
17:48<+glx>only headers are used, but not linked
17:48<TrueBrain>LordAro: ^^
17:48<TrueBrain>but in more generic terms: don't use SDL on Windows
17:49<TrueBrain>not sure why we support it, tbh
17:49<@peter1138>If I'm modifying YAPF code, should I stick to YAPF coding-style? :p
17:49<LordAro>mm, can't remember why i installed it
17:49<@peter1138>SDL on Windows does work.
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: rewrite it with STL :p
17:49<LordAro>to check tick rate, i think
17:50<@peter1138>So I fixed the RV path cache, but now it has two std::deques :(
17:50<@peter1138>One for trackdir, and one for tile.
17:50<@peter1138>It's a bit ugly.
17:50<TrueBrain>LordAro: possibly we should just remove that line in our codebase
17:50<LordAro>TrueBrain: which line?
17:50<TrueBrain>the first link
17:51<TrueBrain>no, it is more complicated
17:51<LordAro>that whole block is only used on windows SDL
17:51<TrueBrain>why do we special case SDL on Windows?
17:51<TrueBrain>why not just do what we do with everything?
17:54<TrueBrain>I am sure there are historical reasons
17:54<TrueBrain>but possibly good to throw those overboard
17:54<TrueBrain>so feel free to add to my branch a change that 'fixed' sdl.h LordAro :)
17:54<LordAro>it's been that way as far back as i can be bothered to trace
17:54<TrueBrain>so lets brake that status quo :)
17:54<TrueBrain>I removed a lot of special casing
17:54<TrueBrain>most of them are undocumented
17:55<TrueBrain>so ... I removed them .. and if we add them again, we add them with comments etc
17:55<TrueBrain>I remember in the old days we shipped SDL.dll next to openttd.exe
17:55<TrueBrain>but it was annoying as fuck
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>do we still have code to support morphos? :p
17:56<TrueBrain>too many
17:56<TrueBrain>a while back I removed a few OSes
17:56<TrueBrain>but it was claimed someone was still maintaining MorphOS
17:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
17:57<TrueBrain>GwydToday at 11:54 PM
17:57<TrueBrain>Ok walls of text have been put up
17:57<TrueBrain>Also @TrueBrain in that pull request people talk about 3rd rail sparks
17:57<TrueBrain>Which I've done
17:57<TrueBrain>Tell them
17:57<TrueBrain>Also that discussion was a useful read
17:58<andythenorth>highly trained copy-paste artist
17:58<TrueBrain>I AM A MONKEY
17:58<TrueBrain>\o/ :D
17:59<Samu>@calc 3378 / 580
17:59<@DorpsGek>Samu: 5.82413793103
17:59<Samu>about 6 times faster
17:59<@peter1138>Aw crap, I changed the saveload format again...
18:00<TrueBrain>OWH NO YOU DIDNT!
18:00<LordAro>TrueBrain: turns out i could be bothered to go further back
18:00<@peter1138>OWH YES I DID
18:00<LordAro>guess how far back
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18:00<Gwyd>Am I... in?
18:00<TrueBrain>LordAro: yeah, so it was from back in the days we shipped SDL.dll next to openttd.exe
18:00<TrueBrain>Gwyd: that's ... what he said?
18:01<TrueBrain>LordAro: so .. burn it with fire?
18:01<@peter1138>Gwyd came to the right place, nice.
18:01<Gwyd>great I'm here so I read that pull request discussion and the "train state" thing seems like a more useful thing than being able to query/compare speed limits
18:01<Samu>this is actually useful
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18:02<Gwyd>i.e. asking if the train is accelerating, braking, trying it's best to stay at a speed or stopped (for different reasons)
18:02<LordAro>TrueBrain: willdo
18:03<TrueBrain>tnx LordAro :)
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>Gwyd: yeah, it'll be a bit tricky extracting that information from the code, though
18:03<TrueBrain>glx: seems like the same "bug" happens for freetype. It feels like pkg-config is going wrong here on OSX
18:04<Samu>i can finally name my groups!
18:04<Samu>once that is in
18:04<Gwyd>Eddi: yeah, because a train may be slowing down, but only due to a hill or something
18:04<Samu>without worrying about it being unique
18:04<TrueBrain>glx: tomorrow I will fix the CI for Linux, so you can peak there too what happens :)
18:04<@peter1138>Samu, needs someone to review it.
18:04<+glx>well pkgconfig does the same for mingw, but at least all libs are installed in the same location
18:04<@peter1138>Alas, nobody cares ;)
18:05<TrueBrain>glx: yeah .. possibly pkg-config for lzo is just broken or something
18:05<TrueBrain>not sure .. needs more debugging :)
18:05<Samu>btw Eddi|zuHause The cheated value is 21, not 0
18:05<+glx>for vcpkg detection use find method
18:06<TrueBrain>vcpkg comes with CMake for every package, basically
18:06<TrueBrain>but vcpkg patches it
18:06<@peter1138>Okay so the issue with saving the deque content is we have to know, in advance, at compile time, what the data type is.
18:06<TrueBrain>so that is not a real surprise
18:06<LordAro>TrueBrain: currently working out if i can get rid of sdl.cpp/h entirely
18:06<TrueBrain>anyway, time to get some sleep
18:06<@peter1138>This is not possible with out sl_desc arrays.
18:06<+glx>I meant for VS builds using vcpkg, our script use find method to detect lzo :)
18:06<Samu>someone fix that table :O
18:07<TrueBrain>glx: yes; vcpkg adds cmake files for every package you install
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: not sure i understand the problem
18:07<TrueBrain>so every library installed with vcpkg, will be found by find()
18:07<TrueBrain>but vcpkg patches that, if the library doesn't support it
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18:07<TrueBrain>glx: owh, you meant the other find()
18:07<TrueBrain>sorry, too many finds in this world
18:07<TrueBrain>that is really odd
18:08<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, because the type of the std::deque is a template, it has to be there at compile time.
18:08<TrueBrain>as it should be a cmake :P
18:08<TrueBrain>owh, findPackage() ofc
18:08<TrueBrain>strange that is not working
18:08<@peter1138>But saveload stuff is detached and hidden behind layers.
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: so the saveload code must know the exact instantiation of the template?
18:08<TrueBrain>anyway, really off now
18:08<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yes.
18:08<+glx>-- LZO_INCLUDE_DIRS: D:/developpement/GitHub/vcpkg/installed/x64-windows-static/include
18:09<+glx>it works well :)
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>so it must be put into some header somewhere
18:09<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, the only way is to teach the saveload code about every possible type that we want to saveload.
18:09<@peter1138>Some header, yeah, not quite.
18:09<+glx>no extra /lzo for VS
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18:11<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, each of those SlDequeHelper lines has a specific type.
18:11<@peter1138>Hmm, even then I don't think it would work.
18:12<@peter1138>Ah, SlSaveLoadConv() would have to know about the datatype.
18:12<@peter1138>Although that way it would only work up to uint64.
18:12<@peter1138>This saveload system is a bit ... baroque ;)
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>so you need a SL_VAR_SOMESTRUCT and instantiate SlDequeHelper<SomeStruct>?
18:13<@peter1138>actually it would just be a custom SlDequeHelper than knows the contents the struct.
18:14<@peter1138>So... easier to have either 2 deques, or bitstuff it.
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>i think we need to zoom out one or two levels before seeing how to properly fit this in there
18:15<@peter1138>Well there was an alternative :/
18:15<@peter1138>Take it out of the sl_desc array and manually handle i.
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18:30<+glx>the issue is in lzo source (unofficial mirror, but I check in the official src retrieved by vcpkg)
18:32<+glx> can't work with this pkg-config stuff :)
18:34<@peter1138>Hmm, so...
18:34<@peter1138>^^ bitstuffed
18:34<@peter1138>^^ two separate deques.
18:35<@peter1138>ib4 use static arrays
18:35<@peter1138>Although actually...
18:36<@peter1138>Or is that "inb4"
18:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7261: Add: Road vehicle path cache.
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>i'm really unsure about either, but the bitstuffing one seems less future proof
18:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7261: Add: Road vehicle path cache.
18:40<@peter1138>Hmm, I could use a union instead ;)
18:41<LordAro>hmm, mouse is very flickery
18:41<LordAro>built & linked though
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>intuitively i think the SLE_DEQUE() stuff needs a nested struct decomposing it into SLE_UINT8/32
18:44<@peter1138>Yeah but that's just not possible with how that works.
18:45<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe a 3rd way :-)
18:46<+glx>LordAro: by default it's a debug buid, unless you configured with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>the whole saveload code screams "REWRITE ME WITH TEMPLATES"
18:47<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yes.
18:47<LordAro>glx: so the flickery seems to be the win32 video driver, nothing i did
18:47<LordAro>but i definitely don't have debugging symbols
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18:49<drac_boy>hi there
18:50<drac_boy>not sure if its a localized word or not so much but anyway .. are tipper wagons basically flatcars-top or they're rather more dedicated (alike to tankers with minimal/no chassis)
18:50<+glx>and it's a dynamic build too, but that's ok for a local build
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19:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
19:19<@peter1138>Hmm, this isn't going so well
19:29<+glx>btw LordAro, I have some PRs on TB fork
19:39<drac_boy>samu I hope you're not in dreamland now :)
19:42<Samu>testing string sorter
19:42<Samu>it now uses OTTDStringSorter inside win32.cpp
19:42<Samu>i thkn
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19:47<Samu>Function Name Total CPU [unit, %] Self CPU [unit, %] Module
19:47<Samu>| - std::_Deque_alloc<std::_Deque_base_types<char const *,std::allocator<char const *> > >::_Get_data 39 (6,55%) 37 (6,22%)
19:48<Samu>it's still Deque_alloc who's taking most time
19:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
19:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
19:51<@peter1138>Are you confused?
19:51<@peter1138>in src/strings.cpp:794
19:51<@peter1138>std::stack<const char *> str_stack;
19:51<@peter1138>change that to
19:52<@peter1138>std::stack<const char *, std::vector<const char *>> str_stack;
19:52<@peter1138>See if it makes a difference.
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20:01<Samu>let's test
20:01<@peter1138>Probably makes no difference.
20:02<Samu>wow, that was fast
20:03<Samu>let me retest
20:04<Samu>too fast, which is weird
20:04<Samu>let me try debug build
20:05<Samu>Function Name Total CPU [unit, %] Self CPU [unit, %] Module
20:06<Samu>| - OTTDStringCompare 513 (85,93%) 95 (15,91%)
20:06<Samu>this is for QSortT
20:07<@peter1138>It is quite a bit faster.
20:07<@peter1138>Not as fast as comparing directly without formatting, but still.
20:07<Samu>Function Name Total CPU [unit, %] Self CPU [unit, %] Module
20:07<Samu>| - std::_Vector_alloc<std::_Vec_base_types<char const *,std::allocator<char const *> > >::_Get_data 10 (7,25%) 9 (6,52%)
20:08<Samu>this is for FilterSignList()
20:08<Samu>and Append
20:08<@peter1138>%ages are not really relevan.t
20:09<Samu>let me try now release build without visual studio attached
20:09<@peter1138>If performance is improved in one area, percentage-wise it will increase elsewhere, but it hasn't actually increased in real tersm.
20:09<@peter1138>I'm see 66/100ms per sort instead of 350ms
20:10<Samu>opening the sign window list with 62k signs, had a little stall of 62 ms
20:11<Samu>ah no, 471 ms
20:11<Samu>because it sorts afterwards
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20:13<Samu>yeah, 510 ms
20:13<Samu>that is slightly better than
20:13<Samu>580 ms
20:14<@peter1138>Hmm, greater difference for me.
20:15<Samu>let me screenshot
20:15<Samu>465 ms, it's speeding up, the AI is clearing signs atm
20:17<Samu>better than this
20:17<Samu>@calc 465 / 579
20:17<@DorpsGek>Samu: 0.80310880829
20:18<Samu>@calc 579/465
20:18<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1.24516129032
20:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7305: Codechange: Make std::stack use std::vector container in string formatting/drawing.
20:24<Samu>no idea what's a vector not a stack or a deque, but cool stuff
20:25<@peter1138>STL stuff. Different implementations of similar things.
20:25<@peter1138>deque is better for larger structures.
20:29<Samu>what do squirrel lists use?
20:32<@peter1138>A std::map stores a relationship from one type to another.
20:32<@peter1138>Hmm, yeah, scriptlist uses both.
20:33<Samu>{ // ordered red-black tree of {key, mapped} values, unique keys
20:34<Samu>{ // ordered red-black tree of key values, unique keys
20:34<Samu>map and set
20:34<Samu>so it can't be faster?
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20:35<Samu>what about std::list
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20:35<LordAro>optimising for the sake of optimising is often a waste of time
20:36<LordAro>especially when you're not actually profiling properly
20:36<LordAro>Samu: look up "premature optimisation"
20:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
20:51<Samu> got bored of reading it half-way
20:51<Samu>so basically someone said one thing and everyone distorted it
20:52<LordAro>i mean, that article is precisely the opposite of the point i was trying to get across to you
20:52<+glx>pff I was searching a setting in the GUI, but it's a console/config_file only for 5 years
20:52<LordAro>but since you didn't bother reading it anyway, i'm not sure how much i care
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20:52<+glx>I don't play enough
20:52<@peter1138>I don't understand why we have a filterable settings GUI... and then removed a load of settings from it :/
20:53<+glx>yes it was an expert one, order.selectgoods
20:53<Samu>i like that one, I occasionaly use it
20:54<+glx>yes it's a nice one, but it's hidden
20:54<+glx>it used to be in the GUI
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: because SETTINGS ARE EVIL!!!
20:55<+glx>improved loading is hidden too
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>people can't be trusted with settings
20:55<Samu>make settings level, similar to debug level
20:56<Samu>1 - basic settings, 10 - everything
20:56<@peter1138>We have. Basic. Advanced. Expert.
20:56<@peter1138>Many settings are in the wrong category.
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>all people are experts, anyway
20:57<Samu>0 - no settings
20:58<Eddi|zuHause>ok, i stop staring at the saveload code now.
20:58<+glx>all removed were expert, except selectgoods which had no category (so basic I guess) and has been moved to expert during the removing
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>i can't remember which side of that discussion i was on
21:00<@peter1138>newgame seed :/
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>i almost definitely wasn't involved in that
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21:09<Samu>can i suggest inflation off as default?
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21:11<Samu>a setting that could be removed from the gui, imo
21:11<Samu>"Disable electric rails"
21:12<Samu>i've almost never used it
21:12<@peter1138>It's a backwards compatibility thing.
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21:15<@peter1138>^^ that is pretty ugly too :(
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>"RealSave_VEHS" uhm, what? :p
21:17<@peter1138>Borrowed it from station_sl.cpp
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21:20<Eddi|zuHause>"Don't put a person in a position where they have only bad decisions to choose from"
21:21<Samu>why is 7305 separate from 7304?
21:21<@peter1138>Two separate changes.
21:22<@peter1138>If 7304 is in place, 7305 has almost zero impact on your sorting.
21:22<Samu>it had a ~20%
21:22<Samu>or... wait
21:22<@peter1138>(But other sorted things might benefit, ever so slightly...)
21:22<Samu>didn't test the color thing
21:23<@peter1138>Can you not read?
21:23<@peter1138>If 7304 is applied, then the changes in 7305 will NOT affect anything, because 7304 bypasses is that all anyway.
21:26<Samu>testing 7305 separately, brb
21:27<Samu>2099 ms
21:27<Samu>better than 3378 i reported initially
21:29<Samu>7304 got those results I posted
21:29<Samu>but will test again, just to confirm
21:29<Eddi|zuHause>youtube suggestions horrible as usual
21:33<Samu>about 540 ms
21:33<Samu>now 7304 + 7305
21:35<Samu>you'll never know
21:36<Samu>about 460 ms
21:37<Samu>just merge them all
21:38<Samu>why is it faster? no idea
21:39<Samu>but it is
21:40<Samu>2.9 frames per sec, still unbearable
21:40<Samu>but faster
21:41<@peter1138>Sure, but there'll be an improvement at less extreme cases too.
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22:02<Samu>gonna test Eddi|zuHause bfsriver stuff
22:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with
22:10<Samu>is it just me or it hangs?
22:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with
22:11<@peter1138>What hangs?
22:12<@peter1138>Never tried it.
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22:15<Samu>gonna wait at most 10 minutes
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22:16<Samu>seems to hang on generating rivers for 4096x4096
22:17<Samu>ah, it unhanged
22:19<Samu>these rivers look nice, but they're quite short
22:19<Samu>and they spring in the open, not near any mountains
22:20<Samu>they're also not lock-ready
22:26<@peter1138>That isn't a thing.
22:29<Samu>doesn't like mountains much
22:29<Samu>usually on the low ground
22:30<Samu>smooth terrain helps a lot, I see
22:32<Samu>very smooth is perfect, even better
22:32<Samu>goes up mountains nicely
22:33<Samu>lets try a map heeight of 255
22:36<Samu>not too bad
22:36<Samu>but rivers sometimes end in weird spots
22:37<Samu>or are sized 3 tiles or so
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22:41<Samu>it's impressive, but it makes many veins in a tight space and then it makes nearly nothing in a large block
22:42<Samu>i dunno
22:42<Samu>I kinda like it
22:43<Samu>but terrain needs to be smooth pretty much
22:43<Samu>correction, "very smooth"
22:43<Samu>better than my lock-ready enforcements
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22:55<Samu>weird, i get more rivers on mountain terrain than hilly
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23:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with
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23:24<@peter1138>Oh, he left.
23:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with
23:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7304: Codechange: No need to buffer and format sign strings, they are C-style strings to start with
---Logclosed Sat Mar 02 00:00:26 2019