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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-03-10

---Logopened Sun Mar 10 00:00:05 2019
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00:18<Samu_>I think I did it
00:19<Samu_>will post tomorrow, too late now
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03:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
03:43<andythenorth>hi nielsm
03:46*andythenorth wonders where FIRS 'leftover cargo' originates
03:48<andythenorth><!--! Account for cargo 'wasted' in output calc (due to integer division discarding fractional values) - keep it for next production cycle -->
03:51<andythenorth>seems it basically stores "waiting cargo mod 8"
03:51<andythenorth>with some extra considerations
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03:55<andythenorth>let's do some maths
03:55<andythenorth>deliver 12t of coal
03:55<andythenorth>industry produces output at 2/8 of input
03:56<andythenorth>so 3t output?
03:56<andythenorth>why muck about with 'leftover'?
03:56<andythenorth>is there a minimum distributed amount?
03:56<@Alberth>1, most likely :)
03:56<@Alberth>o/ btw
03:57<andythenorth>I could go and see if the old nml code is any more clear on this
03:58<@Alberth>most likely, someone had the idea that you'd have to convert all input to output eventually
03:58<@Alberth>that ends in keeping the remaining last cargo naturally
03:59*andythenorth wonders what was wrong with nfo anyway :x
03:59<andythenorth>as long as you comment every byte, it's 100% readable :P
04:01<@Alberth>mostly the need to remember all the numbers, and tedious searching for typos in them, probably
04:02<@Alberth>there seems to be some middle ground here, one extreme is nfo, the other extreme is nml and beyond
04:02<@Alberth>m4nfo is more in the middle ground, some higher level concepts, but you still need to combine them yourself to make it work
04:03<@Alberth>ie one line in your nfo could be one statement, for example
04:03<andythenorth>"//!! not really sure what is going on with A9, seems to duplicate AA - AC section of chain?"
04:03<@peter1138>I think andythenorth would find nml simpler if he was actually writing nml, not whatever the weird meta language on top.
04:04<@Alberth>nml scales badly to larger grfs is the problem perhaps
04:04<andythenorth>I would find the overall project much harder, but you're correct
04:04<andythenorth>it means (1) I don't know nml very well (2) I have complicated templates which are very hard to read
04:05<andythenorth>also (3) I'm using python to template a language that is python-ish in places, but also not
04:05<andythenorth>so it's brainfart a lot
04:05<@Alberth>may I suggest you try my py-xpd macro language, it's designed as a much simpler cpp pre-processor
04:06<andythenorth>where's the repo? o_O
04:07<andythenorth>also parts of FIRS repo from 10 years ago suggest that 'leftover cargo' is to prevent cargo being left in the stockpile
04:07*andythenorth wonders how many units it''s worth saving though
04:07<@Alberth>also based on python instead of having to install the mingw-or-whatever toolchain on windows for cpp
04:07<andythenorth>oof CPP :)
04:08<andythenorth>I don't miss those days
04:08<andythenorth>how do macro languages do loops?
04:08<@Alberth>for C and c++ it works, because the macros are small if you're a sane programmer
04:09<@Alberth>mostly not, or by recursion
04:09*andythenorth might be having a trip to src/industry_cmd.cpp next
04:09<andythenorth>there must be a reason for pissing about with cargo amounts < 8
04:09<andythenorth>we wouldn't have just invented it
04:10<andythenorth>what's the smallest amount OpenTTD can move to a station?
04:10<@Alberth>default industries might just have been coded like that
04:11<@Alberth>I would hope it's 1 unit of cargo
04:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
04:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
04:13<@Alberth>isn't that the minimum to avoid closure?
04:13<LordAro>peter1138: merge it
04:14<andythenorth> self.min_cargo_distr = '5' # just use the most common value from default OTTD industries, this property needs set but has little use
04:14<@peter1138>LordAro, I can technically as andythenorth opened the PR, but all the commits are by me now.
04:14<andythenorth>the production code makes no reference to min_cargo_distr, it does something different
04:14<andythenorth>(in FIRS)
04:15<andythenorth>afaict, FIRS tries to minimally produce 8 units, and save any cargo that would result in < 8 for next production run
04:16<andythenorth>very diligent, but really?
04:17<andythenorth>I might sack all this crap in favour of a simple loop
04:17<andythenorth>then await bug reports
04:18<LordAro>peter1138: guess someone else should actually look over it :p
04:18<@peter1138>Yeah, I'll merge if someone approves
04:18<andythenorth>it's fine
04:18<andythenorth>"it's fine"
04:18<andythenorth>is it breakfast time?
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04:21<@peter1138>It was, I ate mine.
04:21<@peter1138>Two turkey 'rashers' and an egg on a potato farl. Very protein.
04:22<andythenorth>currently the biggest problem with FIRS is WoT Blitz
04:23<@peter1138>Hmm, couldn've done it as a half-English, damn. Added beans, sosigs, mushrooms and onion. No black pudding or hash browns though.
04:23<@peter1138>So I ought to go cycling today, but it's very windy.
04:24<andythenorth>47-50mph here
04:24<@peter1138>Yeah, wind 25 gusting to 46.
04:26<@peter1138>^ needs anything more for those two flags?
04:27<@peter1138>^ needs fixing for 1.10 :/
04:29<@peter1138>Bah, wiki password not working.
04:30<andythenorth>turn it off and on again
04:39<@peter1138>So when does github gain PR dependencies?
04:39<@peter1138>I have one that depends on #7357.
04:40<@peter1138>Follows on to
04:40<@peter1138>Originally a patch I wrote for r18931.
04:41<@peter1138>Only 9 years old.
04:46<andythenorth>very icon
04:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain approved pull request #30: Fix #29: don't assume master as target branch
04:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #30: Fix #29: don't assume master as target branch
04:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain closed issue #29: Commit checker always expect origin/master, even for non master PRs
04:52<LordAro>peter1138: not going cycling today, just not feeling it :(
04:52<@peter1138>Same. Too windy & gusty.
04:52<@peter1138>I couldn't open the backdoor just now o_O
04:54<LordAro>heh, nice. i don't have that excuse (yet) though...
04:57<nielsm>merge ALL the patches YOLO!
04:57<TrueBrain>why is this: marked as backport? Isn't it impossible to backport thta? :D
04:58<nielsm>well, only if you assume someone is going to try a GS written for 1.9.0 final on 1.9.0-rc1
04:58<TrueBrain>I guess. In my mind, RC means feature freeze
04:58<TrueBrain>so adding things becomes a bit sketchy
04:59<TrueBrain>but more to the point in this case, is that it requires a change both in master and the release branch
04:59<TrueBrain>(comments for example need fixing)
04:59<nielsm>hm yeah
04:59<TrueBrain>it becomes a bit dodgy
05:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7336: Add: AI API for vehicle group colours
05:01<@peter1138>If it wasn't for the documentation, yeah, it's a quick thing.
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05:01<@peter1138>Anyway, I think it was flagged just to discuss it, not actually do it.
05:02<TrueBrain>hence my question: should we? :D
05:02<TrueBrain>as I was wondering the pros and cons :)
05:03<@peter1138>It's also a very minor feature addition that most AI authors will never use.
05:03<TrueBrain>guess we have to balance it per PR, honestly
05:03<@peter1138>That's sensible.
05:03<@peter1138>I wouldn't bother backporting that one, personally.
05:03<TrueBrain>the amount of work to 'correct' history vs the added value :D
05:04<TrueBrain>well, your call; you are the author of the PR here :)
05:04<@peter1138>I am, but I didn't flag it as backport.
05:04<LordAro>given it's "fixing" an oversight in the original PR, i don't mind too much
05:04<LordAro>but i wouldn't want anything more than that, for sure
05:04<TrueBrain>meh, glx's change breaks .. bah
05:04<TrueBrain>I was sure it was going to work
05:05<TrueBrain>LordAro: I think the question was not as much if we mind, more the amount of work required to make it correct vs the benefit :)
05:06<TrueBrain>I guess another way of putting it: is anyone going to do the legwork for it, and do we consider that time well spend :)
05:07<TrueBrain>"error: malformed object name origin/$(System.PullRequest.TargetBranch)"
05:08<TrueBrain>sometimes it doesn't resolve variables .. sometimes it does
05:08<TrueBrain>really annoying
05:10<@peter1138>Hmm, let's try this SDL 2 again.
05:12<@peter1138>Hmm 8bpp mode is *slow*
05:13<@peter1138>Oh. Hmm.
05:13<@peter1138>Must've been what was on screen
05:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7336: Add: AI API for vehicle group colours
05:14<@peter1138>I think it's a slippery slope. As you say, feature freeze.
05:14<nielsm>pretty amazing
05:15<nielsm>why even bother with 1.9?
05:15<TrueBrain>all documentation suggests the YAML should be fine; but why is the variable not resolved :(
05:15<@peter1138>nielsm, I know :/
05:15<TrueBrain>nielsm: because otherwise you never release anything :D
05:16<andythenorth>1.9 is already old news
05:16<andythenorth>in a good way
05:16<@peter1138>Release early, release often.
05:16<TrueBrain>and given the current long cycles OpenTTD uses, it always has been that after a release is branched, tons of new shit hit the 'trunk' :) Guess that is fact of life :P
05:16<andythenorth>that's how it works
05:16<@peter1138>For so many years development had been stagnant.
05:16<andythenorth>and 'stable' will alway contain bugs that are fixed in trunk
05:16<@peter1138>It's just picked up a bit in the last year.
05:16<andythenorth>and there is always a temptation to backport
05:16<TrueBrain>'a bit' :D
05:17<@peter1138>A bit :)_
05:17<andythenorth>release 3 times a year
05:17<andythenorth>happy days
05:17<@peter1138>It's now at the point where a 3 or 4 month release is feasible.
05:17<@peter1138>Assuming it continues.
05:17<TrueBrain>we just need to automate the process a bit more, but yeah
05:17<andythenorth>well, it will slow down while we rewrite all the content APIs :P
05:17<@peter1138>We've had releases where the only savegame bump was for the new version.
05:17<andythenorth>and the content authoring tools
05:17<andythenorth>and bananaramas
05:17<andythenorth>and we need a new website
05:18<@peter1138>April 2020 for 1.10 would be a mistake, certainly :)
05:18<andythenorth>August 1
05:18<andythenorth>school holidays start
05:18<TrueBrain>you want enough time to collect feedback on the biggest changes, even if only by a small portion of the population
05:19<TrueBrain>or you want to switch to a CI/CD delivery, as in: feature hits 'stable' tomorrow :P
05:19<TrueBrain>but that requires auto-updating :P
05:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7357: Drop down list code cleanups
05:20<andythenorth>also, CI/CD makes it very hard to ever remove/break anything
05:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7357: Drop down list code cleanups
05:20<andythenorth>major versions are a chance to kill old stuff
05:20<@peter1138>I think that's a bit extreme :-)
05:21<TrueBrain>why is Azure not resolving this variable :(
05:22<LordAro>andythenorth: i wouldn't say "very hard" - see all of :p
05:28<@peter1138>Ah, loads of them are closed, phew.
05:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7358: Add: Construction type icons to rail and road construction drop down lists.
05:30<@peter1138>Ok, I've "just" realised why our vertical centering based on FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL looks a bit wrong sometimes...
05:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
05:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
05:34<@peter1138>nielsm, probably ought to wait til we're at least close to doing a 1.10-beta.
05:35<LordAro>i've never been a fan of projects that update the changelog for every commit
05:36<TrueBrain>"##[error]error: malformed object name origin/${SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH}" <- PFFFTTT, so what is the right way of doing this .. :(
05:36<LordAro>TrueBrain: is it $SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH ? :p
05:36<TrueBrain>pretty sure that is not it :)
05:36<@peter1138>LordAro, I used to do that back in the day. Monodevelop would automatically update the changelog with commit message.
05:37<@peter1138>LordAro, it was a fucking horrible pain in the arse to merge anything, as it ALWAYS conflicted on the stupid stupid changelog file.
05:37<@peter1138>And it only ever said the same as the commit message anyway.
05:37<TrueBrain>that is why a lot of projects are using now
05:37<TrueBrain>and autogenerate changelogs from there
05:38<TrueBrain>would be terrible for OpenTTD itself btw
05:38<TrueBrain>we suck at commit messages :D
05:38<@peter1138>We kinda do that, but...
05:39<TrueBrain>well, such autogeneration might fix us sucking :D
05:39<@peter1138>There is that.
05:40<TrueBrain>"/usr/bin/docker run -e TARGET_BRANCH=${SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH} .."
05:40<@peter1138>It does look a bit weird.
05:40<TrueBrain>that should work, not?
05:40<TrueBrain>it is very computer-ish talk :)
05:40<LordAro>TrueBrain: it'll get expanded before docker sees it, if that's what you want
05:40<TrueBrain>LordAro: well .. it doesn't .. which is what I find odd
05:40<@peter1138>What will be expanding it?
05:41<LordAro>the shell
05:41<TrueBrain>but I would expect it should
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05:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
05:44<@peter1138>You're using $( ) elsewhere, not ${ }
05:44<TrueBrain>${} for bash env resolving
05:44<TrueBrain>$() for Azure Pipeline resolving
05:44<TrueBrain>tried both ..
05:45<TrueBrain>I am now just blindly guessing solutions :D
05:45<@peter1138>Hmm, right, so you'd expect bash to be resolving it to "" if it was blank, rather than leaving it as is.
05:45<TrueBrain>quoting worked :o
05:45<TrueBrain>AP can be a bit .. funky
05:46<TrueBrain>"/usr/bin/docker run -e 'TARGET_BRANCH=master'"
05:46<TrueBrain>so yeah ..
05:46<LordAro>mm, probably being expanded too early in the ...pipeline
05:47<TrueBrain>now I hope Docker understands '' :P
05:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
05:48<TrueBrain>lets check if that fixes 1.9 ..
05:48<andythenorth>LordAro: by 'very hard' I mean giving player the choice to stay on old major version, to keep old behaviour
05:48<andythenorth>if they're really attached to it
05:48<andythenorth>auto-updater breaks that
05:48<@peter1138>Steam? ;)
05:49<TrueBrain>hmm .. reminds me I still havent got a reply back from them
05:50<TrueBrain>nope, Docker doesn't like the '
05:50<@peter1138>Is it possible to use git clone --depth to prevent it having to clone 120MB of repo every time?
05:50<@peter1138>Awww :(
05:50<LordAro>run -e \"..\" ?
05:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
05:51<LordAro>or maybe \${foo} or something
05:51<@peter1138>why would it not like that? o_O
05:51<TrueBrain>LordAro: no, Docker is not even seeing the env variable
05:51<TrueBrain>well, I think it made the whole thing a single env variable tbh :D
05:52<@peter1138>/usr/bin/docker run -e 'TARGET_BRANCH=release/1.9' < that doesn't look wrong to me. Hmm.
05:52<TrueBrain>peter1138: yeah .. but honestly, they should just allow to have those shadow repositories .. what is it called ..
05:52<TrueBrain>you can have a local clone
05:52<TrueBrain>so it only checks out what is new
05:52<TrueBrain>we used that on Jenkins etc
05:52<TrueBrain>but .. AP doesn't offer that YET
05:53<TrueBrain>"/usr/bin/docker run -e TARGET_BRANCH='master'"
05:53<TrueBrain>okay, that is looking better
05:53<TrueBrain>"##[error]error: malformed object name origin/'master'"
05:53<TrueBrain>well, ALMOST
05:53<TrueBrain>@kick TrueBrain spam
05:53-!-TrueBrain was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [spam]
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05:54<LordAro>i'm glad i wasn't the only one thinking it
05:54<TrueBrain>I deserved that, sorry TrueBrain
05:54<TrueBrain>ah, it doesn't use a shell
05:55<TrueBrain>so the parameters are given as-is
05:55<TrueBrain>so to resolve the variable .. I need to use quotes ... which Docker doesn't udnerstand :D Lovely!
05:55<TrueBrain>so in reality it was doing docker run -e \'BLA=bla\'
05:55<TrueBrain>and is now doing docker run -e BLA=\'bla\'
05:55<TrueBrain>(if executed from shell)
05:56<TrueBrain>to quote or not to quote, that is the question :D
05:57<TrueBrain>and I kinda don't want to solve this in the Docker itself, as that feels really silly
05:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:01<@peter1138>Hmm, confused by settings.
06:02<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> why muck about with 'leftover'? <-- because whole countries were thrown into economic crisis when they didn't account for rounding errors
06:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:03<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: ok, I'll write code that wastes the leftover
06:03<andythenorth>and then you can send me a PR to store the remainder, using mod 8 or something
06:03<@peter1138>(const void*)(size_t)(def)
06:03<@peter1138>That is... what? o_O
06:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
06:05<andythenorth>hmm, FIRS PRs o_O
06:05<andythenorth>maybe I can just be the project manager?
06:05<TrueBrain>lol; we won't hear the end of it if you are only the pm :P
06:05<TrueBrain><3 :)
06:05<andythenorth>we don't have enough project management
06:05<andythenorth>that's why nothing ever gets done
06:05<TrueBrain>"self organizing groups"
06:06<andythenorth>ha ha ha ha
06:06<andythenorth>it's all lolz, all of it
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's because the so-called "project manager" obsesses about a strange line with mod 8 that he doesn't understand
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>instead of "someone probably thought a lot about this, just keep it around and stop worrying"
06:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: who is the project manager right now?
06:07<TrueBrain>okay .. this code works
06:07<TrueBrain>not happy with how it looks, but it does work
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: rule of thumb: if you have to ask that question, it's probably yourself :p
06:07<andythenorth>I'm just going to delete the modulus, I suspect it doesn't work anyway
06:07<andythenorth>and I'm not scaling 'it doesn't work' to 8 cargos
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>what makes you think it doesn't work?
06:08<andythenorth>it's unreadable
06:08<andythenorth>so it's not clear what 'work' would mean
06:08<Eddi|zuHause>how are those things related?
06:08<andythenorth>if we don't know what 'correct' is, how can we know if it works?
06:08<andythenorth>therefore -> doesn't work
06:08<andythenorth>you may pick holes in that logic
06:08<Eddi|zuHause>that's just because you don't know what mod does
06:09<andythenorth>I know what mod does
06:09<andythenorth>I don't know what the FIRS code is doing
06:09<@peter1138>Hmm, value clamping for uint32s is wrong as well.
06:09<andythenorth>this is all a bit Popper / Berlin school
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>are you sure? i'm fairly convinced i had to explain it to you multiple times in the past :p
06:10<andythenorth>mod(4) is 1?
06:10<andythenorth>if you have 4
06:10<andythenorth>mod(4) is 0?
06:10<andythenorth>ok we'll go with your argument then
06:11<andythenorth>so should I delete it or not?
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>that looks like a perfectly fine formula to me
06:12<andythenorth>yes but is it correct? o_O
06:12<LordAro>@calc 4 % 4
06:12<@DorpsGek>LordAro: 0
06:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:13<andythenorth>it seems to just be loading leftover cargo from storage, then storing it back
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>difficult to say with your huge variable names
06:13<andythenorth>I'll use 'a' and 'b' next time :P
06:14<andythenorth>L33 loads leftover_cargo_1 from perm storage, does mod on it, then stores the result to leftover_cargo_1
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>let's start at what l24 does
06:15<andythenorth>78 would be better
06:15<andythenorth>why is waiting cargo being stored to leftover_cargo_1?
06:15<andythenorth>these are stupid variable names
06:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:16<TrueBrain>sorry for all the spam .... imagine glx's mailbox
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>out of 100 emails in the past 2 months, 95 are openttd github
06:17<andythenorth>oof GTG, kids football
06:17<andythenorth>anyway I accept Eddi|zuHause is right
06:17<andythenorth>but also I stand by my point, this code is unreadable ;P
06:17<andythenorth>and needs deleted
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06:18<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: 95 emails is a tuesday for me, currently
06:18<LordAro>should probably unwatch the repo or something :p
06:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>i should move them to a subfolder
06:18<TrueBrain>I unwatched it a while ago :P
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>and maybe mark them as auto-read
06:18<TrueBrain>I am with frosch, I want a filter on certain labels :P
06:19<TrueBrain>okay ... this seems to work ..
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>i mostly react on the channel notifications, so the email notification is just noise coming in 5 minutes late
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't watch the channel all the time, and in those cases the email is more useful
06:20<TrueBrain>I like that DorpsGek_II is giving me a feed of everything it said .. so I can look back in PR notifications there :P
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have access to that :p
06:21<TrueBrain>okay, come one, work .. work ... please work ........
06:21<TrueBrain>doesn't #openttd.notice also show this? I think it does
06:21<TrueBrain>it should, at least
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>it probably would, but i have no real use for that...
06:22<TrueBrain>YES! IT WORKS
06:22<TrueBrain>LordAro: mind reviewing real quick? See if I didnt do something stupid here?
06:23<LordAro>TrueBrain: will do, nearly at the bottom of NRT
06:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7358: Add: Construction type icons to rail and road construction drop down lists.
06:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:26<TrueBrain>almost forgot to document why this solution is in place ...
06:26<TrueBrain>more lines of comments now than the real change :D
06:26<LordAro>those are the best changes
06:27<LordAro>bonus points if it's a rant about a 3rd party system or colleague
06:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:28<TrueBrain>rants go in commit messages
06:28<TrueBrain>comments should be factial
06:28<LordAro>rants can be factual
06:29<TrueBrain>We once removed a comment that said something in the lines of: # Because of our idiot colleague we have this; not because it is correct, but because he is a moron that doesn't want to listen
06:29<TrueBrain>that was not really ... helping anyone to have that around :P
06:29<TrueBrain>especially as he was called out by name in the same comment :D
06:29<LordAro>oh, of course, that's a "what" comment, not a "why" comment :p
06:29<TrueBrain>it is also a why, in this case :D
06:30<LordAro>if it explains why they're an idiot, i'd look more favourably on it :p
06:30<TrueBrain>because he is a moron, duh :)
06:30<LordAro>in the context of the code :p
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06:31<TrueBrain>do we keep the label "backport" if it is backported, or do we add another label to indicate it is, or do we remove it?
06:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7358: Add: Construction type icons to rail and road construction drop down lists.
06:31<TrueBrain>such questions
06:31<@peter1138>TrueBrain, if it's done, remove it, I think.
06:32<LordAro>TrueBrain: probably should be "to backport", and removed when it is
06:32<@peter1138>Well, actually.
06:32<TrueBrain>I can understand if people want to know that it is backproted
06:32<@peter1138>I suppose it is easy enough to filter on "backport" and "is open"
06:32<LordAro>hmm, true
06:32<@peter1138>So could just leave it indeed.
06:32<TrueBrain>but that is the issue .. backports are not open
06:32<TrueBrain>they are closed
06:33<@peter1138>Right but it's still a backport.
06:33<LordAro>backported commit should reference the PR, right?
06:33<@peter1138>I see.
06:33<LordAro>so you'll see it in the issue
06:33<TrueBrain>yeah, but you want to quickly see what we still need to backport
06:33<TrueBrain>not click them ALL to see that :)
06:33<@peter1138>Ok, so then remove it.
06:33<TrueBrain>and I can udnerstand people dont want to go through everyPR to see if we forgot to backport one
06:33<TrueBrain>so keeping it can be useful :D
06:34<TrueBrain>(hence my question :P)
06:34<TrueBrain>"to backport" and "backported" labels?
06:36<TrueBrain>lets try that for now, and see what it brings us .. removing stuff is always easier :)
06:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
06:36<@peter1138>I will need to update it I guess :)
06:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
06:38<TrueBrain>with these PRs, I will miss the days of SVN .. NoAI was 40+ commits .. that was such a lovely MERGE moment :D (as it showed 40+ commit lines on IRC). Now it will be just a single entry ...
06:39<LordAro>clearly you should make DorpsGek_II watch for individual commits to master :p
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>maybe instead of "X merged pull request" you should list the commits added to master? :p
06:39<TrueBrain>LordAro: people voted against that :(
06:39<LordAro>we miss on translator updates because of that as well
06:39<TrueBrain>hmm . .that is indeed true
06:39<TrueBrain>that is fixable
06:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
06:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
06:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] TrueBrain opened issue #25: Pushes outside of PRs are not announced
06:40<TrueBrain>and now I have a reminder
06:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
06:43<TrueBrain>tnx LordAro
06:43<LordAro>TrueBrain: you get no credit :p
06:43<TrueBrain>yeah, because you merged :(
06:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
06:45<@peter1138>LordAro, i'll have to see what I can do about splitting.
06:46<LordAro>yeah, i can't imagine it'll be all that easy
06:46<@peter1138>It was done as a big lump because the original was full of fixes and merges.
06:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7359: Backport marked PRs to 1.9
06:46<TrueBrain>this is my suggestion for backports ^^
06:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
06:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
06:48<LordAro>TrueBrain: :)
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06:48<TrueBrain>smart, the closes; I wanted to do that manually, but this is easier :P
06:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
06:49<TrueBrain>wish you could control labels like that :D
06:49<LordAro>that would be very nice :)
06:51<TrueBrain>there are btw bots that do backporting for you, once in a while, if there are no conflicts
06:51<TrueBrain>very nice stuff
06:51<TrueBrain>but .. one step at the time :D
06:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
06:55<TrueBrain>yippie, all green :D It works! \o/
06:55<TrueBrain>so do we want a PR per backport, or these bulk versions?
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06:56<andythenorth_>phone irc :x
06:56<nielsm>I suppose bulk PRs are fine at least for low-risk things
06:57<TrueBrain>the no-conflict cherry-picks
06:57<TrueBrain>I agree
06:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] michicc opened pull request #23: Add: Railtype flags for 90 degree curves.
06:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] PeterN approved pull request #23: Add: Railtype flags for 90 degree curves.
06:58<@peter1138>^ I notice that repo doesn't require approval.
06:58<TrueBrain>I mentioned that a few times already yes
06:58<TrueBrain>seems nobody cares enough to fix it :)
06:59<@peter1138>I don't have rights to fix it :p
06:59<@peter1138>(I'm not asking for rights)
06:59<TrueBrain>people creating these repos should also take care of these administrative things, in my opinion
07:00<TrueBrain>as others cannot smell if they wanted to set it up like this or not
07:00<TrueBrain>but last time I asked, I got some contradicting answers :D
07:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
07:01<andythenorth_>just kick the repo out of the org?
07:01<andythenorth_>if it doesn’t conform to standards?
07:01<TrueBrain>we have standards?!
07:01<LordAro>/kick TrueBrain standards enforcement
07:02<@peter1138>andythenorth_, wtf?
07:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] michicc merged pull request #23: Add: Railtype flags for 90 degree curves.
07:02<TrueBrain>LordAro: :D
07:02<TrueBrain>peter1138: I guess NML is also missing some form of CI :)
07:02<@peter1138>It is.
07:03<TrueBrain>so yeah .. that needs a bit more attention :)
07:03<andythenorth_>iirc it has CI
07:03<LordAro>i think pm wanted to hook it up to ottdc jenkins
07:03<andythenorth_>frosch or pm already did it
07:03<TrueBrain>it is not reporting back
07:04<TrueBrain>(case and point, the last PR that just came by :D)
07:04<TrueBrain>but okay, I am sure they are on it :)
07:04<andythenorth_>can’t be fucked to search coop on my 4” phone
07:04<TrueBrain>last we talked, I believe we agreed that they would ask for help if needed, etc :) So I am sure it is in good hands, just takes time :)
07:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
07:05<TrueBrain>I just hope someone is also taking care of OpenGFX etc :)
07:05<andythenorth_>sack nml
07:05<andythenorth_>edit content in game
07:05<TrueBrain>owh, they are stalled on import errors :(
07:05<@peter1138>TrueBrain, yup, needs the hg repo to be "fixed"
07:06<TrueBrain>all imports I managed so far, failed via GitHub
07:06<TrueBrain>I all did them manually in the end
07:06<TrueBrain>annoys me a bit :P
07:06<TrueBrain>owh well
07:06<andythenorth_>2 of mine worked, rest did not
07:07<andythenorth_>also what can we delete? :p
07:07<TrueBrain> <- 'backported' label is nice I guess
07:07*andythenorth_ has itchy fingers for a bonfire
07:07<andythenorth_>delete HEQS!!
07:08<TrueBrain>andythenorth_: STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD
07:08<andythenorth_>it’s piece of glass
07:08<@peter1138>Yeah, stop it.
07:08<@peter1138>Deleting stuff you are bored with is not useful.
07:08<@peter1138>You are not going to bugger off to simuscape or something :p
07:09<TrueBrain> <- should also be backported, right?
07:09<andythenorth_>delete simuscape!
07:09<@peter1138>TrueBrain, if 7302 made it to 1.9, yes.
07:10<andythenorth_>what I really like is the stalebot
07:10<@peter1138>Yes it saves you from having to make a decision.
07:10<@peter1138>And it means people don't blame you for closing their bug.
07:11<TrueBrain>yup; blaming machines always does wonders :)
07:11<andythenorth_>hmm I have 20 pairs of the same type of nike trainers, in different colours. delete some of those?
07:11<andythenorth_>I deleted lots of old/dead plants in my garden 2 weeks ago
07:12<TrueBrain>okay, I like this .. easy to spot what needs consideration of backporting
07:13<andythenorth_>hmm so NRT is shipped?
07:13<andythenorth_>I should make a grf
07:13<@peter1138>No, I'm working on it.
07:13<@peter1138>Review popped up some changes.
07:13<andythenorth_>also nml :p
07:13<andythenorth_>did I open a PR for nml?
07:13<@peter1138>Including the suggestion to split it. Splorfl.
07:13<@peter1138>I think 16-in-16-out is a PR?
07:13<andythenorth_>sporfl is a good word
07:14<andythenorth_>need to do an nml nrt pr
07:14<andythenorth_>my branch is a disaster of merges probly
07:14<TrueBrain> <- all PRs worth considering for backport :)
07:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7349: Fix: Show industry name in Land Area Information window for oil-rig type stations instead of just 'Oil Rig'
07:17<andythenorth_>based on an old import I did of nml
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07:18<andythenorth_>so is HEQS going into Road Hog or not?
07:18<TrueBrain>peter1138: did not know, removed the label immediately :P
07:18<TrueBrain>tnx :)
07:22<andythenorth_>hmm not bulldozers though eh
07:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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07:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
07:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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07:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
07:45<@peter1138>I was going to check the specs on that comment ^
07:45<@peter1138>But, uh, there are no official specs yet.
07:46<nielsm>I wonder if the newgrf specs (at least what ottd understands) shouldn't be part of documentation inside the repository
07:46<nielsm>instead of on an external wiki
07:47<+michi_cc>Back then ttdpatch had some life signs, but I guess that reason is no more.
07:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #7029: #6315 Rail fences in snow or desert
07:48<nielsm>good, that misfeature is closed now
07:49<nielsm>(it was never a bug that track in desert/snow did not have fences)
07:50<nielsm>(otoh, maybe fences should not be _removed_ if the ground changes below the track, due to changing snow line, or water appearing nearby)
07:50<TrueBrain>and tomorrow the issue related will be marked as stale ;)
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07:54<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: but what if the openttd specs and the "official" (neutral) specs diverge?
07:55<nielsm>the specs in ottd repos would be the official description of what ottd supports
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>there was a discussion recently about whether the grf specs should include things that are only supported in patch packs (but are stable enough)
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07:56<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: there are a bunch of things in the specs that openttd doesn't support
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: "only document what's implemented" is maybe not the best idea
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>the specs are more than that.
07:57<nielsm>"reserved, not supported by ottd, may cause your data to fail loading"
08:01<@peter1138>Yeah, the specs were of course designed by ttdpatch and we just implemented them.
08:02<@planetmaker>fences in snow or desert a mis-feature? Hm
08:02<@peter1138>Problem with documentation in the repo is... what format? And what about images? Maintain history?
08:02<@peter1138>It's already a pain in the bum keeping landscape*html up to date.
08:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7245: Remove: OPF
08:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7245: Remove: OPF
08:03<@planetmaker>re (newgrf) docs: the current tt-wiki is quite a good place - especially as it documents more than OpenTTD alone
08:03<@planetmaker>and it is maintained by more people than those who know git-foo
08:04<@peter1138>11:48 < nielsm> good, that misfeature is closed now
08:04<@planetmaker>re-creating the level of detail it currently offers inside an OpenTTD repo would be a hell of a work
08:04<@peter1138>I also disagree that it's a misfeature.
08:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
08:04<@peter1138>I don't know about the specific implementation though.
08:04<@planetmaker>that looked messy
08:05<@peter1138>I would say, yes, don't move the docs.
08:05<nielsm>desert and snow were never supposed to have fences
08:06<@peter1138>I don't follow that argument.
08:06<@peter1138>Features shouldn't be added because they weren't there originally?
08:07<@peter1138>I would say if it was to be added it would be newgrf-provided only :p
08:07<nielsm>I'd be fine with it as a newgrf thing
08:08<@peter1138>I'd hope the code would be much smaller in that case :p
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08:08<@peter1138>Ok, default setting does not work.
08:09<@peter1138>It made the title save load as temperate.
08:09<@peter1138>I guess there's a bug there :D
08:12<andythenorth>nml CI
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08:14<@peter1138>Yay, better.
08:16<@peter1138>Hmm, interesting.
08:18<@peter1138>Setting vehicle.max_trains (0 < 6400 < 5000) -> new 500
08:18<@peter1138>Old code would've clamped that to 5000.
08:18<@peter1138>New code sets it to the default 500.
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08:21<@peter1138>I just remembered, the framerate regression made it to 1.9 :(
08:21<LordAro>framerate regression?
08:21<@peter1138>The one where lots of vehicles causes the performanceaccumulator to use up a good chunk of CPU itself
08:22<LordAro>could be backported?
08:22<@peter1138>Could be. Has been reported to cause slowdowns on systems where accumulator is not slow.
08:23<@peter1138>I'm not sure why it would be slow or not slow on some systems.
08:23<@peter1138>'Problem' is it changes the order of vehicle processing.
08:23<@peter1138>Dunno if that's actually an issue.
08:32<@peter1138>Interesting settings get loaded just by clicking on the name in the load game list.
08:34<andythenorth>can we store a table of industry closures?
08:34<andythenorth>newgrf accessible?
08:35<@peter1138>Oh. My newgame settings got changed. This is suboptimal :/
08:35<@peter1138>andythenorth, sounds like a gamescript thing ;)
08:36<@Alberth>it would be if game scripts could actually control opening and closing of industries, imho
08:36<andythenorth>the standard answer is "newgrf can't have a global view, use GS"
08:36<andythenorth>and when anyone asks "how?"
08:36<andythenorth>the standard answer is "GS can't know anything about newgrf industry, nor control it"
08:37<@peter1138>I was, of course, being facetious.
08:37<andythenorth>it came up because I've disabled FIRS closure handling temporarily to get 16-cargos working
08:37<andythenorth>and can I be arsed to restore it later? :P
08:37<@peter1138>I'm not sure what such a system would look like.
08:37<@peter1138>(table of industry closures)
08:37<andythenorth>table of industries closes, with type and date
08:38<@peter1138>Yeah but how would you look at that from newgrf?
08:38<andythenorth>*and* it tracks industries marked for closure so far this month
08:38<andythenorth>you look at it from monthly and random cb
08:38<andythenorth>I'll find the numbers
08:38<@peter1138>You can't easily do loops can you?
08:39<@peter1138>Or at all?
08:39<andythenorth>29 and friends
08:39<andythenorth>just give it a var to query the table, with some useful bitmasked info
08:39<andythenorth>maybe pass an industry ID
08:40<@peter1138>Urgh, regression testing.
08:40<andythenorth>returns last date of closure for that ID
08:40<andythenorth>maybe a stack so you can walk down the closures, picking off 'next'
08:40<andythenorth>might still be crap, dunno
08:41<andythenorth>maybe we should just fix OpenTTD
08:41<@peter1138>pass an industry ID how?
08:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7359: Backport marked PRs to 1.9
08:42*andythenorth looks up the industry map count var
08:42<andythenorth>similar to var 67
08:42<andythenorth>it was a random idea, might be better to decide what's wrong with closures first :P
08:43<andythenorth>frosch always says to let newgrf spec ripen a bit before changing
08:43<andythenorth>I don't get attached to specific ideas
08:43<andythenorth>except depot-flip for liveries :(
08:43<andythenorth>maybe I should learn C++ and code that
08:44<@peter1138>Setting difficulty.max_loan changed from 100000 < 2000000000 < 500000 to 300000
08:44<@peter1138>So regression test save has a very weird max_load setting.
08:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7359: Backport marked PRs to 1.9
08:44<@peter1138>In master it gets clamped to 500000, in my branch it gets reset to the default 300000...
08:45<TrueBrain>doesnt close PRs :o
08:45<@peter1138>Aw :(
08:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7342: Backport #7338
08:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7342: Backport #7338
08:45<@peter1138>Also that was a bloody strong gust of wind.
08:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7343: Backport #7327
08:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7343: Backport #7327
08:45<@peter1138>I should check my fence is still standing.
08:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7344: Backport 7335
08:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7344: Backport 7335
08:45<TrueBrain>manual labor :(
08:50<@peter1138>Hmm, weird, prices are different too.
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08:56<andythenorth>I wish my templater could unpack vars in a loop like python can :P
08:57<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe it should clamp unless it's a SGF_MULTISTRING.
08:57<@peter1138>But that's fairly arbitrary.
08:58<andythenorth>will this 30W USB-C charger work with my 65W laptop? :P
09:02<@Alberth>I could add something loopy to py-xpd
09:03<@Alberth>also, the git-tag thing is broken, I need to fix that
09:03<andythenorth>TrueBrain had opinions on git rev
09:03<andythenorth>don't make me go to the logs :(
09:04<TrueBrain>I only asked what version you wanted to give your FIRS
09:04<andythenorth>the best version!
09:04<TrueBrain>either 'git describe --tags' or 'git rev-list HEAD --count'
09:04<TrueBrain>one is based on tag, commit since tags, etc
09:04<TrueBrain>the other the amount of commits EVER in that branch
09:04*andythenorth seriously considers writing a table of colours, and using those
09:04<andythenorth>FIRS Green
09:04<TrueBrain>where I can understand that the latter helps in NewGRF versioning when uploading to BaNaNaS (as it is ever increasing)
09:05<@Alberth>I picked tags, currently, more stable if you mess with commits and branches
09:05<andythenorth>I wonder if we could end run this
09:05<TrueBrain>that only works if you dont want a single integer :)
09:05<andythenorth>why does OpenTTD compatibility need to be a number, incrementing?
09:05<@peter1138>It doesn't.
09:05<@Alberth>major << x | minor << y | build << z
09:05<@peter1138>JGR has a feature-test system, instead.
09:05<TrueBrain>that only works if tags are semvers :D (but fair assumption)
09:06<@Alberth>currently single numbers are semvers
09:06<andythenorth>we don't allow changing newgrfs on savegames anyway, right?
09:06<andythenorth>so what's this feature even for?
09:06*andythenorth just checking we don't gold plate a nothing feature :)
09:07<@Alberth>compatibility, you get a save game with a grf you don't have the right version
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09:08<@Alberth>hai hai
09:08<@Alberth>otherwise you'd have to define compatibility over multi-number versions
09:09<@Alberth>or drop it, probably
09:10<andythenorth>so bumping the action 14 is a manual action anyway
09:10<andythenorth>it has to be
09:10<andythenorth>and there are two reasons to want a rev from the repo
09:10<@peter1138>Should I scrap my nrt changes and try from the original branch again?
09:11<andythenorth>1. quick way to automatically get a value for action 14 to compare
09:11<@peter1138>I'm going with no here :p
09:11<andythenorth>2. get a rev for use in filename, directory listing etc
09:11<@peter1138>So many merges ;(
09:11<andythenorth>nobody sent me the rebase memo, it's banned at work
09:12<andythenorth>and Wolf uses a windows gui client for git that merges automatically
09:12<andythenorth>still, at least we got progress towards just using git, eh?
09:12<@peter1138>I'm just trying to look at history to find out why something is changed.
09:12<andythenorth>history is horrid
09:12<andythenorth>for that branch
09:13<andythenorth>ok so I could just manually bump a rev for action 14
09:13<andythenorth>it won't increment for push builds, but does that matter?
09:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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09:25<@Alberth>as long as you can distinguish dev-builds from release-builds, not really imho
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09:27<TrueBrain> <- bah, it still is not completely working
09:27<andythenorth>in most cases I can think of for (2), there should be a timestamp available
09:27<TrueBrain>commits in release/1.9 are being rejected ..
09:27<TrueBrain>it should not run the commit-checker :D
09:27<andythenorth>e.g. push build listings etc should have a build date
09:27<andythenorth>filesystem files should have date metadata
09:28<andythenorth>no need to sort based on revs
09:28<andythenorth>oof Alberth I have to confess I still haven't tried your module :)
09:28<andythenorth>let's do it now
09:28<@peter1138>"Service helicopters at helipads automatically"
09:29<@peter1138>Hmm... I thought that got removed.
09:29<+glx>seems the condition doesn't work
09:29<@Alberth>tried to fix the next-dev thing, but realized it interferes with release numbers :(
09:29<andythenorth>how did I solve this at work?
09:29*andythenorth looks
09:30<@Alberth>time-stamp would be the useful thing, but how to squeeze that into a 32 bit number?
09:30<andythenorth>yeah, untagged versions are named as 'last tag + hash'
09:30<andythenorth>so just git describe basically
09:30<andythenorth>e.g. 3.5.7-148-g0daa8a1c
09:30<TrueBrain>glx: indeed, that doesn't work; neither for master
09:30<TrueBrain>SO CLOSE :)
09:30<+glx>that was not testable while in PR
09:30<nielsm> peter1138: I think we just agreed to pretend that "service at helipad" setting is always off
09:31<@Alberth>very unstable if you squash commits
09:31<@Alberth>which may happen in dev builds
09:31<andythenorth>if used like this, the hash is just there to disambiguate between builds imho
09:31<TrueBrain>glx: ah, the 'tag' is not resolved when the template is resolved
09:31<@peter1138>var = order.serviceathelipad
09:31<@peter1138>def = true
09:31<TrueBrain>the Tag parameter is $(Build.JobName)
09:31<TrueBrain>not 'commit-checker'
09:31<andythenorth>occasionally e.g. openttd gets confused about which of the many FIRS to load
09:31<+glx>at least the fallback to master works
09:32<andythenorth>so I check the rev in newgrf at that point if changes aren't showing
09:32<andythenorth>but for normal use, the annotated semver tag would seem to be reliable enough
09:32<andythenorth>maybe action 14 could just use the semver tags also
09:32<@peter1138>version = `date +%s`
09:32<andythenorth>and the newgrf version in game
09:33<@Alberth>I have arrived at just using style numbers, with the last number: 0=release, >0=dev build
09:34<@Alberth>peter: yep, would be so nice if openttd and newgrf could handle such strings as version number
09:34<@planetmaker><andythenorth> so what's this feature even for? <-- so that OpenTTD offers you the latest and greatest of a single NewGRF in the selection dialogue - unless you specificially enabled "newgrf_show_old_versions"
09:34<andythenorth>this always seemed a bit weird to me
09:34<andythenorth>at least for annotated semver tags
09:35<@planetmaker>offer from the files you have on your local HDD
09:35<andythenorth>Alberth: so x.y.z.a
09:35<@Alberth>yeah, or x.y.a probably, if you want just 2 values for a release
09:36<andythenorth>but then there's this case :(
09:36<TrueBrain>andythenorth: so you suggest we track in BaNaNaS which version is newer, and use that instead? :P
09:36<andythenorth>I don't know
09:36<andythenorth>but why have two versioning systems?
09:36<@Alberth>so you may want x.a ?
09:36<andythenorth>I never did understand why we have two
09:37<@planetmaker>for newgrfs there only ever was one
09:37<@planetmaker>but.. not newgrf version of openttd
09:37<andythenorth>not in my newgrds
09:37<TrueBrain>andythenorth because someone once considered NewGRFs the center of the world? :D
09:37<andythenorth>my newgrfs have had two versions since the action 14 was added?
09:37<andythenorth>I never understood why
09:37<@planetmaker>that was you (and many other authors) who introduced on their own their own versioning scheme with more than one number
09:37<andythenorth>I just cargo cult it around
09:38<@planetmaker>that many others include me, too, ofc
09:38<andythenorth>yes, we were told to use semver!
09:38<andythenorth>semver is the future! etc
09:38<andythenorth>and then this other system too
09:38<andythenorth>semver is weird anyway
09:38<@planetmaker>it's just what we tell users. But... so... just use x.y.z --> xyz
09:38<@planetmaker>simple mapping. pad a few 0s in between. Nice
09:38<andythenorth>dump semver?
09:39<@planetmaker>I wouldn't
09:39<@Alberth>would work, but makes discussing compatibility more complicated
09:39<@Alberth>no more firs3 or 3.2
09:40<@Alberth>or 3.2.1 which is compatible with 3.2 etc
09:40<andythenorth>it doesn't work like that though
09:40<@planetmaker>3.2.1 -> 30201
09:40<@Alberth>you get 21, 35, 42
09:40<andythenorth>no guaranteee that 3.2.2 is compatible with 3.2.1
09:40<andythenorth>or 3.4 compatible with 3.3
09:40<@planetmaker>That is always the newgrf author's fault
09:41<@Alberth>planetmaker: does that increment if version numbers > 9??
09:41<@planetmaker>Alberth, there's a failure point, if a semver goes >9 or >99 (whether you pad with 0s or not)
09:41<@Alberth>1.10 -> 1010, 2.0 -> 200
09:42<@planetmaker>that's why I rather suggest 1.9.0 -> 10900 and not 190
09:42<@Alberth>seems nice
09:42<@Alberth>easy to understand
09:43<@planetmaker>problem remaining: versions for nightly builds
09:43<@planetmaker>that is actually where it really matters most
09:43<@planetmaker>so maybe add another 2 or 3 trailing digits for the nightly rev
09:43<@planetmaker>which counts commits since last tag or so
09:43<@planetmaker>just linear counting
09:44<andythenorth>according to semver, FIRS should be on about version 350
09:44<TrueBrain>stop breaking things :P
09:44<andythenorth>strictly applying semver to newgrf just makes no sense
09:44<andythenorth>semver is a bit of a turkey anyway
09:45<TrueBrain>strict semver is only useful for APIs and libraries (which is also an API :P)
09:45<andythenorth>applying them to content (savegames) is weird
09:45<TrueBrain>just redefine it a bit :)
09:45<@peter1138>planetmaker, do we want to require approvals for things like nml repo?
09:46<@planetmaker>peter1138, you mean for PRs?
09:46<@planetmaker>generally I'd say yes. But grant direct commit rights to some? I'd not want automatic PR integration from <random folks>
09:47<@peter1138>Pretty sure PR integretion is never from random folk
09:47<@Alberth>32bit, so 9 digits available
09:47<@planetmaker>Doesn't hurt me, if I make a PR and accept my own :P
09:47<@planetmaker>Alberth, yes... so like 1.9.0-dev234 would be like 109000234
09:48<@peter1138>Just depends if we want to run it like openttd-git or openttd-svn
09:48<@planetmaker>which is actually similar to the NewGRF version OpenTTD's NewGRF API offers
09:48<@planetmaker>peter1138, I prefer to keep workflows similar. Less friction IMHO
09:48<@Alberth>I wonder if major would need > 9
09:49<@planetmaker>Alberth, for NewGRF: yes. thinking of andy :P
09:49<@Alberth>he has firs 3 now :)
09:49<andythenorth>when it gets to 9, just declare it awful, and start a new project
09:49<andythenorth>FISH is on about version 9, but I restarted it 3 times
09:49<@Alberth>1.9.0-dev234 would be 010900234 btw
09:49<andythenorth>av9 is a gag on av8 :D
09:50<andythenorth>how do we derive the dev version? From git rev count?
09:50<@planetmaker>yes... but leading 0s are easily optimized away... as long as there's still bit-space to add, when they become needed
09:50<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I'd say 'yes'
09:50<@Alberth>that gives you one more digit for development builds
09:50<andythenorth>so 4.0.0 is just 4000000
09:50<@planetmaker>9999 dev builds between two releases should suffice, should it?
09:51<@planetmaker>if not... you're doing it wrong [TM]
09:51<@peter1138>andythenorth does a lot of that ;)
09:51<andythenorth>oof :(
09:51<@planetmaker>4.0.0 -> 400000000
09:51<@peter1138>You keep saying so!
09:51<andythenorth>progress requires certain amounts of destruction
09:51<@planetmaker>you say that a lot, too :P
09:51<@Alberth>4 00 00 0000 lots of zeroes :)
09:52<andythenorth>so how would it handle alpha, beta, RC releases?
09:52<@planetmaker>it's not so much for human digestion. Yet still to understand
09:52<@Alberth>but perhaps project-decided, rev count or tags
09:52<andythenorth>shall we make action 14 understand dev versions?
09:53<@Alberth>alpha: dev > 8000, beta: dev > 9000, RC: dev > 9900
09:53<@planetmaker>alpha... isn't that rather dev >= 0?
09:54<andythenorth>what if we design this from Bananas POV instead of newgrf author? o_O
09:54<@Alberth>in my mind it's a pre-release, not some random development version, but it's a project decision probably
09:54<andythenorth>we need a way to distribute nightly / alpha / beta / RC
09:56<@planetmaker>ok, I always considered alphas random dev versions while betas were already something to test for very eager people
09:56<@planetmaker>anyway, that's complete side-tracking
09:57<@planetmaker>andythenorth, how would bananas POV differ from newgrf author? (bananas has not POV. Maybe users have :P )
09:57<@planetmaker>(which users?)
09:58<andythenorth>the users I have in mind are developers, or other people who might turn on 'show unreleased content' for bananas
09:58<andythenorth>specifically it would help with bug reports, and with developing newgrf spec
09:59<@planetmaker>so... like ... openttd offers 'nightly', 'testing' and 'stable' branches for download?
09:59<andythenorth>maybe frosch123 solved all this already in bananas2? o_O
09:59<@planetmaker>on steam you can specifically opt-in to dev versions of programmes
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10:02<@peter1138>How does one reply to that without being sarcastic as heck?
10:03<@planetmaker>peter1138, by replying not at all
10:04<TrueBrain>lol; okay, that was entertaining :)
10:04<TrueBrain>why listen to advise you get .. it is easier to ignore :D
10:05<@planetmaker>though... just found a possible answer :P
10:05<@planetmaker>I think his problem might be differently than he thinks
10:08<andythenorth>I always get spanked by openttd.cfg
10:08<andythenorth>I often have 3 or 4 OpenTTDs open
10:10<@Alberth>I make copies of openttd.cfg in each bin directory, and link downloaded content directoy to the ~/.openttd/content_download so it's shared
10:11<TrueBrain>glx: sorry for commenting on things that were already there .. :D
10:12<@planetmaker><Alberth> I make copies of openttd.cfg in each bin directory, and link downloaded content directoy to the ~/.openttd/content_download so it's shared <-- so do I. Especially on the servers
10:12<@planetmaker>locally... the content_download and cfg in ~/.openttd is shared anyway when nothing local is present
10:12<@Alberth>in the file name, we could indeed replace "dev" by "alpha/beta/rc"-ish
10:14<@Alberth>without the link, it doesn't find downloaded content iirc, or it doesn't put it there or so, was a long time ago
10:14<+glx>TrueBrain: :)
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10:15<+glx>or should we wait the next backport batch ?
10:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
10:15<TrueBrain>nah, fix it asap :)
10:15<TrueBrain>but that is one hard to read statement :P
10:15<TrueBrain>double spaces before or()
10:16<@planetmaker>indeed, Alberth . but what about the newgrf version?
10:16<TrueBrain>glx: please add a comment what it is doing :) But yeah, looks fine to me
10:16<@planetmaker>just count it up normally?
10:16<@planetmaker>in the scheme as discussed above?
10:16<@Alberth>as we discussed, 9 digit number?
10:17<andythenorth>nielsm: to confirm the produce syntax here "TOYS: LOAD_PERM(4)" could equally well be temp register, or a var?
10:17<@planetmaker>it's a bit difficult as 1.9.0 -> 10900 0000 < 10900 0234 = 1.9.0-betaX
10:17<@Alberth>likely with some guide for numbering alphas, betas, and rcs
10:18<@Alberth>hmm, good point
10:18<andythenorth>bake semver parsing into action 14 :P
10:18<nielsm>andythenorth: probably yes, if you put an expression that isn't a pure load from a single register, nmlc generates an whatever intermediate varaction2s required to put that into a temp register
10:19<@Alberth>release has 9999 as dev number?
10:19<@Alberth>looks very weird though
10:19<@planetmaker>basically that's what openttd did, though. adding a 'released' bit
10:20<@planetmaker>so that the announced newgrf version of releases was always bigger than dev versions
10:20<andythenorth>oof YAGNI strikes FIRS
10:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
10:21<@Alberth>but newgrfversion is not used in filenames etc, so should be fine?
10:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
10:22<@Alberth>except it should bark for dev9999
10:22<@planetmaker>hm, yes
10:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
10:23<@Alberth>other option is to do development against the current release, and increment major, minor, of sub-minor on release
10:23<@planetmaker>hm... though...
10:23<@planetmaker>what happens between 1.9.0-beta1 and 1.9.0-beta2?
10:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
10:23<@planetmaker>how treat those?
10:23<@planetmaker>and -rc1 ... rc3?
10:24<@planetmaker>it's all 1.9.0-dev9999 then. drat
10:24<@Alberth>what can happen between beta1 and beta2?
10:24<@planetmaker>just a few additional commits
10:25<@Alberth>number is still the dev number, so I would suggest you have beta9100, beta9200 etc
10:25<andythenorth>recent Iron Horse alphas have been dramatically game breaking
10:25<@planetmaker>ah. sorry, yes, got myself confused
10:25<@Alberth>unless +9000 is implied by "beta"
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10:26<andythenorth>at least 9000 :P
10:27<@Alberth>start at 9990 for extra challenge :p
10:27*andythenorth ponders arithmetic
10:28<TrueBrain>glx: we are already 95 commits in cmake branch :P
10:28<TrueBrain>rebasing is annoying :D
10:28<+glx>and I added a lot in PRs
10:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
10:34<TrueBrain>glx: I will be pushing a rebase soon; I have not really tested it that well, so possibly things somewhat break. This is also a force push that I will be doing for it
10:34<+glx>I have no pending stuff locally so it should be ok :)
10:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
10:35<TrueBrain>lets see how much I broke :P
10:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
10:35<+glx>and now the real test :)
10:36<TrueBrain>over time, we should look into skipping it completely, I think
10:36<TrueBrain>this is a silly waste of CPU time :P
10:36<TrueBrain>but .. not that important
10:37<TrueBrain>glx: gratz!
10:39<andythenorth>not sure why FIRS mucks about tracking boost from each cargo
10:39<andythenorth>8 coal = 2 steel
10:39<andythenorth>8 iron = 2 steel
10:39<andythenorth>8 coal = 4 steel if iron also delivered
10:39<andythenorth>8 iron = 4 steel if coal also delivered
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10:40<andythenorth>the idea works great, the FIRS code for it is weird
10:41<andythenorth>LOAD_TEMP(${var_received_timely_2}) * ${industry.get_boost(2,1,economy)}
10:41<andythenorth>how odd
10:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
10:44<TrueBrain>"*** First line of message must match: '<keyword>( #<issue>| <commit>(, (<keyword> #<issue>|<commit>))*)?: ([<section])? <Details>'" <- doesnt mention WHICH commit failed :D
10:44<TrueBrain>in 95 commits ....
10:45<TrueBrain>hmm, none appear to be wrong
10:45<TrueBrain>pure hate
10:46*andythenorth sends TB flowers
10:46<TrueBrain>and a small violin?
10:46<andythenorth>I had a nice time talking to someone in Blitz yesterday
10:46<andythenorth>he killed me, so I said 'Lol'
10:47<andythenorth>then he spent ages DMing me 'cry cry'
10:47<andythenorth>then he said 'I know how to deal with trolls like you sending me messages'
10:47<andythenorth>but he started the conversation in DM :(
10:47<andythenorth>cool story eh?
10:47<andythenorth>Blitz is an idiot magnet, unless all MMOG are this way?
10:48<TrueBrain>you should have been there :P
10:48<andythenorth>so bananas 2 then?
10:49<@peter1138>I'm done with NRT.
10:50<@peter1138>I don't have the will-power to think about splitting it up.
10:51<@peter1138>Maybe the language changes
11:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
11:00<andythenorth>eh the original PR twice said 'one big block'
11:01<@peter1138>+4313-1017 ]:(
11:01<@peter1138>That is pretty huge
11:04<@peter1138>Hmm, strange. I've just found a load more comments from LordAro that github didn't show me before o_O
11:04<LordAro>was it the "show hidden conversations" button?
11:04<+glx>TrueBrain: I think one of my latest commits had an incorrect message
11:05<+glx>TrueBrain: indeed the one before the rebase
11:05<TrueBrain>capitals .. lol
11:05<+glx>CodeChange should be Codechange
11:07<TrueBrain>hmm .. I hope I did not remove any of yours commits glx
11:07<TrueBrain>not sure
11:07<TrueBrain>(in the earlier rebase)
11:07<TrueBrain>can you check your local copy?
11:08<andythenorth>sometimes nml wants string literals, and sometimes not :P
11:08<andythenorth>"IORE" and IORE
11:08<nielsm>needs lisp/ruby style symbol quoting
11:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
11:09<TrueBrain>fixes the commit message error :P
11:10<TrueBrain>okay .. I think all the commits are still in there, but please check glx if you can :)
11:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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11:15<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> "IORE" and IORE <-- the difference there is when it needs the label, or the position in the CTT
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it will also be different in NFO
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11:23<+glx>TrueBrain: no missing commits it seems
11:23<TrueBrain>cool, tnx
11:23<+glx>but rebasing my branches will be fun
11:24<+glx>I get conflicts in the very old commits
11:24<TrueBrain>shouldnt, really
11:24<TrueBrain>as the work you are based on is unchanged
11:25<+glx>probably the way I'm rebasing is wrong
11:25<TrueBrain>otherwise cherry-pick your work on top of cmake branch
11:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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11:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
11:31<@peter1138>Now I'm done, unless there are more hidden comments :p
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11:42<andythenorth>nielsm: so I've now got this generating
11:42<andythenorth>compiles, haven't tested it actually works yet
11:43<andythenorth>merge 16-cargo PR? :P
11:43<@peter1138>Is it rude to take someone's commits in another... branch... and make a PR of them?
11:43<@planetmaker>a matter of personal perspective. Attribute it and it's legally fine ;)
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11:44<+michi_cc>If you pick them properly (i.e. let git keep author information), why not?
11:45<@peter1138>I did have to edit it quite a lot as well, heh.
11:45<+michi_cc>After all, they where published under GPL.
11:45<@peter1138>I kept the author, but actually it's kinda not in places. heh.
11:47<+michi_cc>I've done more than one "(inspired by/based on patch from XXX)" svn commit and nobody complained.
11:48<+michi_cc>Which "inspired" meant original patch was utter crap and "based on" meant at least one line survived :p
11:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7361: Change: Use default value for invalid settings instead of clamping to min or max value.
11:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
11:56<@peter1138>You know, now that I'm getting to write the PR description, I can't see the point of it :p
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11:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr)
11:58<@peter1138>We'll see :p
11:59<+glx>hmm doesn't #7361 breaks settings change in GUI, or console ?
11:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
11:59<andythenorth>reverse train at waypoint is quite lolz :)
12:00<andythenorth>tempted to find an arbitrary pointless use for that :)
12:00<@peter1138>andythenorth, it is.
12:00<andythenorth>I was going to say just use a balloon track
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>it would be useful for shunting :p
12:00<@peter1138>it's like trying to do shunting or something.
12:00<andythenorth>but could make switchbacks go up hills
12:00<andythenorth>without risking pathfinder confusion
12:01<@peter1138>glx, I don't think so?
12:01<andythenorth>we need more stuff that's lolz
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>i once had a track layout with a waypoint in a siding to reverse
12:01<andythenorth>and less stuff that's making model trains
12:01<andythenorth>I have model trains in the loft already
12:01<@peter1138>glx, it definitely breaks some things.
12:01<andythenorth>also, one of the best things to do with model trains is crash them :P
12:01<@peter1138>andythenorth, i think reversing at waypoints is a model-trains feature, tbh.
12:01<TrueBrain>glx: can you check if #7363 works on MingW and MSVC, and that project file generation results in the same after that PR? (some things I cannot test here, because I have a space in my folder .....)
12:02<@planetmaker>I sometimes wonder whether we should sketch-up a design for OpenTTD 2.0 which removes LOTS of old cruft, maybe all. And with a clean design of APIs etc
12:02<andythenorth>how about more lols?
12:02<@planetmaker>sure, taking time to design it. But then actually taking the parts we need and filling in those we don't like
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>#7361 might solve an issue i had once (or maybe that was solved meanwhile), where i had an invalid textual setting in the .cfg, and it would init to 0 instead of default
12:03<andythenorth>planetmaker: the idea always appeals
12:03<andythenorth>do big rewrites succeed though?
12:03<andythenorth>or do they get stuck in spec war hell? o_O
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but what is openttd if it's not backwards compatible with original TTD?
12:03<@peter1138>Clean design of API? Which API?
12:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
12:04<@planetmaker>newgrfs? game scripts, ai
12:04<TrueBrain>glx: oops, I should try tings myself before I ask; lalala :D (it works now on Linux :P)
12:05<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, I think the issue there is if you don't change the setting, it'll leave it as the invalid setting for next time.
12:05<andythenorth>newgrf 2.0
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: that's part of the issue, but not the actual problem
12:06<@peter1138>Changing NewGRF... not really feasible.
12:06<@peter1138>You'd either reimplement what we've got, or make pretty much every existing addon not work.
12:06<@planetmaker>need not be... entirely
12:07<@planetmaker>yes, you'd do that. I know
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: throwing away two decades of community work is hardly a good idea
12:07<@peter1138>And I'm sorry if the resolver design is bad, it was developed in our pre-C++ days.
12:07<TrueBrain>we once started to rewrite every file, to be more sane .. it never went anywhere :P
12:07<@peter1138>Map Accessors!
12:08<@peter1138>Wait, that one was a success.
12:08<TrueBrain>turns out that rewriting for rewriting was a terrible idea :(
12:08<@planetmaker>point is, we NEVER deprecate anything. And that is adding up. More and more. Making any progress exponentially more difficult
12:08<TrueBrain>we about to remove OPF! :D
12:08<@peter1138>Progress on what though?
12:08<@peter1138>Progress is more about developer interest.
12:09<@peter1138>Also, savegame compatibility.
12:10<@peter1138>And I still think of AI/GS as a new API :p
12:10<@planetmaker>9 years, yes
12:10<@peter1138>It's still missing things that authors want.
12:11<andythenorth>newgrf 7.9
12:11<andythenorth>newgrf 9000!
12:11<andythenorth>ouch, I always forget how to view perm storage in newgrf debug window
12:11<@planetmaker>And NewGRFs became a giant mess
12:11<@peter1138>But for some reason authors never seem to be able to specify what they want to be able to beyond "can't do that"
12:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out
12:11<@peter1138>Ad-hoc extenions, yes.
12:11<andythenorth>nielsm: ^ that _might_ be a FIRS bug, but I'm inclined to say it's nml initially
12:13<@peter1138>I'm willing to take NewGRF being "a giant mess" and keep 15 years of addons.
12:13<andythenorth>the mess doesn't bother me, just the PITA of working with newgrf to extend it
12:13<andythenorth>I kinda like the mess
12:13<@peter1138>I don't really understand.
12:14<andythenorth>the mess?
12:14<@peter1138>NewGRF gives us a defined, if sightly odd, way of doing things.
12:14<@peter1138>There's a few bits of cruft due to backwards compatability.
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see what big feature is blocked that needs "throw away the current newgrf spec and make a new one"
12:14<@peter1138>Like CB36 duplicating some earlier callbacks.
12:15<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, exactly.
12:15<andythenorth>I kind of enjoy most of it, it's like a building that's evolved
12:15<andythenorth>but then sometimes you look in the cellar
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>keeping old stuff around CAN block new development, but it doesn automatically have to.
12:15<andythenorth>and there are many spiders
12:16<@peter1138>vehicle refitting is pretty simple if you don't try to abuse it for livery-bullshit.
12:16<andythenorth>no really, it's not, because cargo units
12:16<andythenorth>but eh
12:16<andythenorth>the problem with killing spiders is
12:16<@peter1138>I quite dislike the "this is old and hard, we should drop it and start something new" mentality.
12:17<@planetmaker>peter1138, the problem is, that one doesn't need to implement "I want CB X" cry. But solve the actual problem
12:17<@peter1138>THanks andythenorth
12:17<TrueBrain>@kick andythenorth
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12:17<Eddi|zuHause>the cargo unit thing is a mess
12:17<@planetmaker>or sometimes even not
12:17<@peter1138>planetmaker, so in that case, what actual problem?
12:17<TrueBrain>*flexes his response time*
12:18<@planetmaker>it often is more abstract than "I want X"
12:18<@peter1138>CB is a means to achieve something, it's not the problem itself.
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12:18<TrueBrain>wb andythenorth :)
12:18<TrueBrain>and thank you for the image
12:18<andythenorth>HTH does 'copy image address' in Chrome get me that?
12:18<@planetmaker>so the CB might not be the best response to fix the problem.
12:18<andythenorth>and crash my irc client in a loop
12:18<TrueBrain>you said: copy image, I think :P
12:18<@planetmaker>whether it is, that is *our* repsonsibility. Which we often do not fulfill
12:18<andythenorth>well that's what trying to kill spiders gets us
12:18<@peter1138>Can you give me an example of something "you want"?
12:18<@planetmaker>we just add another patch, enlarging the newgrf mess
12:19<@planetmaker>general-purpose stations to which I can assign facilities like rails, truck stop, airport capability (runway,...) or whatever
12:20<andythenorth>yeah so ok
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>that is not blocked by the newgrf specs at all
12:20<andythenorth>it's blocked by the historical inertia around how newgrf is developed
12:20<@peter1138>Yeah, that's actually blocked by the architecture of TTD.
12:20<andythenorth>I think that's what frustrates frosch, that incremental patches are added
12:20<andythenorth>when sometimes a whole new layer might be better
12:20<@planetmaker>I bet so, too
12:20<andythenorth>frosch123 can tell me if I'm wrong though
12:20<@peter1138>Okay, I'm basically being told I need to stop developing features.
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>... which is nonsense
12:21<@planetmaker>no, you are not, peter1138
12:21<@peter1138>We have loads of features being added that are completely unrelated to NewGRFs.
12:21<@planetmaker>Basically the complaint is "there is no vision on where we want to go"
12:21<@planetmaker>"developer interest" like your stated it, is no vision
12:21<@planetmaker>it's death-bit-by-bit
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but we don't get a vision by saying "we throw out all old stuff and start from scratch"
12:22<@planetmaker>or stagnation as many devs pull it in many directions, adding many patches here and there, making it all-over unmaintainable
12:23<@planetmaker>sure we don't get a vision by that, Eddi|zuHause. But letting backward compatibility etc, the details go, and getting an idea of what would be nice overall, design, UI,... would help formulate goals
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that argument is too general to be convincing
12:23<@planetmaker>when you have a vision of what you want to build, then you can start from where we are now, and change things step by step
12:23<@planetmaker>and do the bigger rewrites where they are needed
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it was almost definitely stagnant a year ago. not anymore.
12:23<andythenorth>is there a way to debug an actual sprite in a compiled grf?
12:23<@peter1138>planetmaker, so what IS your vision, other than removing stuff which is working in the name of making a new vision?
12:24<andythenorth>given a sprite number, can I just grfcodec -d ?
12:24<andythenorth>and read the bytes
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: because someone came by with a vision "we need a better collaboration tool"
12:24<@planetmaker>which gave us github
12:24<@planetmaker>and azure
12:24<@peter1138>Because at the moment it still feels like you're telling me everything I do is pointless and we should be ripping it out.
12:24<@planetmaker>no, you misunderstand me, peter1138 . I try not say that
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but you just complain now, without providing an alternative
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that is not the same thing
12:25<@peter1138>You say newgrf needs to be stopped.
12:25<@planetmaker>I'm trying to say that we should beside the day-to-day "I want this" discuss more of where we want to go
12:25<@peter1138>Everything added to it is just an adhoc patch, adding to the mess.
12:25<@planetmaker>nope, peter1138, I did not say that
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you very much said that.
12:25<@planetmaker>I said that, yes. But both are not identical statements
12:25<andythenorth> 3346 * 19 02 0A FC 02 03 1F 80 0F 81 23 82 03 34 83 07 84 3E 85 86 'probably fine'
12:25<@planetmaker>"not working on it anymore" != "every addition makes a rewrite more difficult"
12:26<@peter1138>A rewrite has never been on the cards.
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>that also is nonsense, as "a rewrite" has zero dependency on the amount of cruft already there...
12:27<@planetmaker>well, clearly you have no vision other than "just lets add this and that". Or what do *you* like to have OpenTTD be like in 10 years?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>well, clearly you don't have that either.
12:27<@peter1138>I don't know what YOU like to have OpenTTD to be like
12:27<@planetmaker>and that's why I'm saying it would help to get one
12:27<@peter1138>Other than no addons because we removed it all.
12:27<@planetmaker>I don't say that, peter1138
12:27<@planetmaker>you're red-herringing there
12:28<@peter1138>Not really.
12:28<@peter1138>You want a rewrite because newgrf is crufty and crusty.
12:28<@planetmaker>I'm saying we should make the add-on apis easier to maintain
12:29<@planetmaker>they're complicated on both sides, in openttd and externally
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>maybe, but not by "we invalidate all existing GRFs"
12:29<@planetmaker>duplicating parts,
12:29<TrueBrain>I think, if I can interrupt, that planetmaker was using a solution to create a vision: a world where OpenTTD is a framework on which many functionalities are plugged in
12:29<TrueBrain>I think he is simply asking if we can work by vision, instead of by day-to-day
12:29<@planetmaker>thank you TrueBrain !
12:29<TrueBrain>sadly, that is exactly what my day job is, so I get that :P
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>there is no "instead"
12:29<@peter1138>Okay, provide a vision.
12:30<TrueBrain>I think it is interesting to note, that OpenTTD never had a real vision. We always went from big project to big project
12:30<TrueBrain>so I am always a bit on the fence if we need one
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>we can work day-to-day, or have a vision AND work day-to-day
12:30<TrueBrain>we need big projects, that is for sure :)
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>have a vision alone gets us nowhere
12:30<andythenorth>we have one :P
12:30<andythenorth>I'll find it
12:30<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, I think we had one till 1.0: recreate TTD and have it fully playable on its own
12:30<@peter1138>I also think you're are overstating the "mess"
12:30<TrueBrain>(when I joined OpenTTD .. it was "big maps" .. "makefile rewrite" .. "network rewrite" .. "TGP" .. "NoAI" .. "GS" .. lost track of OpenTTD after that :P)
12:31<@peter1138>Now it's makefile rewrite...
12:31<@planetmaker>peter1138, so stations are completeley different than all the rest. So are bridges
12:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
12:31<@peter1138>planetmaker, bridges have never been extended by newgrf.
12:31<TrueBrain>planetmaker: that 1.0 is indeed fair :) That was also the reason we named it 1.0, if my memory serves me well :)
12:31<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, yes, that's what I recall, too
12:31<@peter1138>planetmaker, so that's a perfect place to start with a vision of "not newgrf mess"
12:32<@planetmaker>frosch123, has written about that quite nice summary already...
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>"unify the station spec with the industry/object/whatever spec" is a perfectly fine goal
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123 has had a "newgrf utopia" for years now.
12:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
12:32<@peter1138>Yeah, stations are different because that's the spec :/
12:32<@planetmaker> to add on it
12:33<@peter1138>We could drop the old spec, and then... piss off everyone using them.
12:33<@peter1138>And it's only the tile layouts that are different.
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>.. or we could make a new spec and call that GRFv9
12:33<@planetmaker> also
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>but we won't get around keeping "the old cruft" there
12:34<@planetmaker>we could, for instance, deprecate v6-
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>no part of the code that handles the v6-specific stuff blocks any of the NewGRF Utopia features
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>and a vision is useless, if you're not day-to-day-working towards that vision
12:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
12:36<andythenorth>from the code I've seen in OpenTTD, the cruft there doesn't block much
12:36<@planetmaker>I don't find the graphics now, but frosch made a nice graph for refitting vehicles. That also would need unifying so that you don't have to learn it anew to differ between trains, rv, ships and planes
12:36<andythenorth>it's in the toolchain and the wiki that the cruft hurts
12:36<@planetmaker>you're right there, andythenorth
12:36<andythenorth>I don't think the cost of the C++ is the problem, based on limited evidence
12:36<@planetmaker>in newgrf.cpp it's mostly more code lines which live independently
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: vehicle refitting is also not helped a single bit by ripping out the old code
12:37<@planetmaker>so yes, I concede, in OpenTTD that might remain, in the toolchains... it's less urgent to remain being able to still compile grfv6 or so
12:37<@planetmaker>as one of the biggest shortcomings is indeed the newgrf compilers...
12:37<@peter1138>So in nmlc we decided on removing the old pre-16-in-16-out cargo stuff.
12:38<@peter1138>And yet we were also told we need to keep compatibility.
12:38<@planetmaker>are we?
12:38<@planetmaker>I didn't
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>that went back and forth a bit. it's like different people have different visions...
12:38<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, quite.
12:39<@peter1138>planetmaker, you didn't what?
12:39<nielsm>new ttd needs to work with old grf, but new nmlc only needs to produce modern grf?
12:39<nielsm>imo a difference in production and consumption side
12:39<@planetmaker>nielsm, that's how I can live quite well
12:39<@peter1138>nielsm, but nmlc needs to compile old nml
12:39<@planetmaker>it's not like I can compile openttd 0.5 any longer. Unless I downgrade everything to 10 years back or so
12:39<@peter1138>I can't remember who was stating one thing and who was stating the opposite.
12:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
12:40<nielsm>for an nml project, there's very few consumers (just the developers), it's easy to coordinate with everyone to upgrade the project code to work with a new nml
12:40<@planetmaker>I always advocated to have nml only produce latest grf specs. It always had that stance before
12:40<TrueBrain>bump major, go go :)
12:40<nielsm>for a finished newgrf there's potentially thousands of consumers, it's near impossible to get everyone to (want to) upgrade
12:40<@planetmaker>and keeping a legacy version for a year to allow authors to transition existing code bases to new syntax
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: there's still a difference between "produce new output" and "process existing input"
12:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
12:41<+glx>use the old compiler if you want to parse old code
12:41<+glx>happens with many tools
12:42<nielsm>for a much larger project, Rust language seems to have done okay despite having breaking changes every so often
12:42<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, we had that argument and I agreed
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say in case of the 16-in-out, the code needed to process the old input (but produce the new output) is maybe 10loc
12:42<nielsm>(though I admit not following it, just going by rumours here)
12:42<@planetmaker>ok, seems we don't
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>you need to weigh carefully whether cutting those 10LOC are more important than having half a dozen people rewrite their GRFs
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i'm talking about nmlc here
12:43<@planetmaker>it's not much work for any author. And they have time
12:43<@planetmaker>I know
12:43<@peter1138>If they're still around.
12:44<@planetmaker>if not, it's unmaintained code. An existing NewGRF is not harmed, if nml changes
12:44<andythenorth>it's quite meta this conversation :P
12:44<andythenorth>meanwhile, in trying to actually get 16-cargos done
12:44<andythenorth>it doesn't work
12:44<@peter1138>andythenorth, it's certainly not a vision.
12:44<@peter1138>We need a vision.
12:44<andythenorth>I do like a meta conversation
12:44<@peter1138>But we don't have one.
12:44<@peter1138>Our vision is to have a vision.
12:44<andythenorth>I'm not even trolling
12:44<andythenorth>but I only have today to try and make this 16-cargo business work
12:44<@peter1138>Meanwhile, stop everything because it's harder to have a vision.
12:44<@planetmaker>that's a way to kill any conversation, peter1138
12:45<@peter1138>planetmaker, it's a fruitless conversation.
12:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
12:45<andythenorth>so what's wrong with this?
12:45<@planetmaker>I totally disagree
12:45<andythenorth> 3346 * 19 02 0A FC 02 03 1F 80 0F 81 23 82 03 34 83 07 84 3E 85 86
12:45<andythenorth>why is it an invalid sprite?
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: so, where is your advice to andythenorth to convert his existing grf to the new syntax?
12:45<andythenorth>that's exactly what planetmaker advised
12:45<@peter1138>We've spent 45 minutes discussing and not doing anything.
12:45<andythenorth>and that's exactly what I'm trying to do
12:45<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: andy does not use nml, so is not affected by any nml change
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that is not quite correct :p
12:46<@planetmaker>just change a few lines in the nml-writer
12:46*andythenorth plays blitz while we figure this out
12:46<@peter1138>andythenorth, what is the "sprite" mean to mbe?
12:46<andythenorth>meanwhile, those bytes aren't valid, and I have NFI
12:46<@planetmaker>it has a production template anyway...
12:46<@peter1138>What produced the bytes?
12:46<@planetmaker>I don't even know the intended syntax
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it would help if you explained what the bytes meant
12:46<andythenorth>isn't it obvious?
12:46<andythenorth>it's sprite 3346
12:47<@peter1138>action 02 (varaction) feature 0a (industries)
12:48<@peter1138>What's the error you get with that sequence?
12:49<+glx>TrueBrain: ran generate and generate.vbs, no changes
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>the 02 seems to be wrong
12:49<@peter1138>Which one? :)
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>expecting "type" here (81/85/89)
12:49<+glx>TrueBrain: and mingw builds and runs
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>the second one
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>after FC
12:50<@peter1138>That's num-ent.
12:50<@peter1138>depending on feature. apparnetly.
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>oh, so it's a normal action2 not a varaction2?
12:50<andythenorth>it's produce
12:50<@peter1138>Could be, yes.
12:51<@peter1138>Yeah, special production callback.
12:51<andythenorth>so 86 looks like an odd value for last byte
12:51<@peter1138>planetmaker smirks as everything we talk about now proves his point :p
12:51<andythenorth>well yes but no
12:52<@peter1138>andythenorth, what generated this, if it's invalid?
12:52<andythenorth>nml from that PR
12:52<andythenorth>but I don't know if I'm using it correctly
12:52<andythenorth>these are the docs
12:53<andythenorth>and reading the parser, which I gave up
12:53<@planetmaker>I have no reason to smirk. But yes, it kinda does prove my point
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so the last 86 seems to be the <again> entry
12:53<TrueBrain>ty glx!
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: not seeing anything fundamentally wrong with that
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>without understanding what it does.
12:55<andythenorth>are the register numbers valid?
12:55<andythenorth>reading the bytes, it all looks correct
12:55<andythenorth>is my openttd broken?
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>what are registers >80?
12:57<@peter1138>andythenorth, if you look in the NewGRF settings window, it should tell you more about the error.
12:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr)
12:58<andythenorth>Fatal: Invalid industry production callback
12:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr)
12:59<@peter1138>error->data should ahve more info
12:59<andythenorth>if only grfs were easy to share :P
13:00<@peter1138>Share it.
13:00<andythenorth>oh fuck off GH, no .tar allowed
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13:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr)
13:04<@peter1138>version 1. Yeah, that's not working :p
13:04<andythenorth>new FIRS is version 1 :)
13:05<andythenorth>I might just leave it on version 1 always
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a horrible idea
13:06<andythenorth>version 2? o_O
13:07<andythenorth>let's try changing the nml and see what happens
13:07<@peter1138>duplicate input cargo
13:07<@peter1138>I think the error string is wrong.
13:08<@peter1138>2:RAW_STRING provides the error data 1:RAW_STRING is the grf name.
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure the patch was well-tested :p
13:09<@peter1138>ndex 0 - rawcargo 31, cargo 10
13:09<@peter1138>index 1 - rawcargo 15, cargo 255
13:09<@peter1138>index 2 - rawcargo 35, cargo 255
13:09<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you were absent during the last hour? o_O
13:09<andythenorth>that's the testing :)
13:10<@peter1138>So 0F and 23 resolve to the same mapped cargo id (i.e. not mapped)
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there was this nonsense discussion in the last hour, that i'd rather pretend never happened
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13:10<@peter1138>So basically
13:10<@peter1138>Your cargo type 0F and 23 and not mapped in the game.
13:11<andythenorth>let's try hard-coding them
13:11<@peter1138>How many cargo types are you expecting here?
13:11<andythenorth>I think it's a FIRS bug in that case
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you need a different produce block for every economy, it seems
13:11<@peter1138>I see 18.
13:11<andythenorth>I suspect there are broken cargos in play
13:12<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yes, because this is a result telling openttd where to find the values.
13:12<@peter1138>(It's not input for the newgrf to do something with)
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13:12<andythenorth>ok, so I have broken cargos, but they're compiling fine
13:13<@peter1138>How many cargo types should there be?
13:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
13:13<andythenorth>they're not triggering any FIRS asserts, nor docs asserts, nor nml asserts :P
13:13*andythenorth looking
13:13<andythenorth>docs say 74
13:13<@peter1138>74 whats?
13:13<andythenorth>74 cargo types
13:13<andythenorth>if I try a different industry, it loads
13:13<@peter1138>But there can only be 64 cargo types tops.
13:14<andythenorth>I'm bisecting
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the way i understand the situation: each economy defines a subset of the cargo types. the produce block may only reference cargos that are in this current subset
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>you're breaking that rule
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>that's why openttd complains
13:16<andythenorth>we'll see
13:16<andythenorth>yep, looks like that's not wrapped
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what peter1138 was asking was, how many cargos are in the subset
13:17<nielsm>hmm, the produce action2 in grf refers to cargo by its cargotable index, iirc
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: yes, but the cargotable can have more cargos in it, not all of them must be valid
13:17<andythenorth>ok, so the old produce block never needed to reference cargos
13:18<andythenorth>it was just position based
13:18<andythenorth>so there's nothing to wrap it in a conditional
13:18<nielsm>meaning different industries that followed the same rules but with different cargos, could share the same produce blocks
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>it wasn't necessary before, but it's necessary now
13:18<andythenorth>can I action 7 a produce block?
13:18<nielsm>uh, I hope so? :)
13:18<andythenorth>let's just try
13:19<@peter1138>any action2 chain should be able to be broken up.
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>you could have the produce block be referenced by a switch?
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>iirc there was a giant warning about skipping action 2s
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>advising to skip the action3 instead
13:20<@peter1138>Well I don't know anything. I have no vision.
13:20<@peter1138>nielsm, the error->data has a text message which is useful for diagnosis, but this is never output.
13:20<andythenorth>nmlc ERROR: "generated/firs.nml", line 6061: produce-block may not appear inside a conditional block.
13:21<andythenorth>yeah, I recall this, some blocks can't be conditional
13:21<@peter1138>nielsm, could be the STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_INDPROD_CALLBACK string refers to wrong parameters.
13:22<andythenorth>nielsm: I am going to spend the rest of the day trying to fit myself onto one box of that grid
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: try the switch idea?
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>switch(economy) { 1: produce1; 2: produce2; ... }?
13:23<andythenorth>I don't understand how to do that?
13:23<@peter1138>One thing.
13:23<andythenorth>or rather Eddi|zuHause I don't understand how that helps
13:23<nielsm>hmm, I wonder if the produce cb should be changed to only resolve the actual cargo on call (or on first call maybe?)
13:24<nielsm>so it's not an error to have a produce cb referencing a cargo that doesn't exist
13:24<nielsm>only an error to use it
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: do you have the nml code for the produce block?
13:24<andythenorth>yes about to paste
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and the related industry
13:24<@peter1138>nielsm, it is pretty odd that this is checked on load, to be honest.
13:24<andythenorth>I will paste more in a minute
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the location where "blast_furnace_simple_produce_0" is used
13:25<andythenorth>children making electric helicopters here, which have sharp edges
13:25<andythenorth>and are flying around the room
13:25<andythenorth>one person bleeding already
13:25<@peter1138>nielsm, i'm worried this may end up being something that needs a backport.
13:25<@peter1138>well, "worried"
13:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
13:25<nielsm>peter1138 yeah...
13:26<Samu>it builds here
13:26<nielsm>I'm looking at the newgrf code now
13:26<Samu>this was the most complex rebase I've ever experienced
13:26<@peter1138>I guess if you skip it it's okay,b ut....
13:26<@peter1138>Samu, yeah, some rebases are rewrites.
13:26<nielsm>but it's difficult to concentrate with a bird insisting on tooting in weird rhythms all the time
13:27<@peter1138>Samu, well... thats, er... one way to do it...
13:27<andythenorth>you don't need the action 0 or action 3, the entry point is blast_furnace_produce
13:28<andythenorth>I've included the not-allowed-by-nml action 7s
13:28<andythenorth>I can drop those if it helps
13:28<@peter1138>Yeah you are switching on economy, that looks like it should be correct.
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: ok, so it's already guarded by economy switch
13:28<@peter1138>As nielsm says, it's a loading error.
13:28<andythenorth>the problem is resolving cargo labels no?
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>so openttd is complaining about the content of an action2 that shouldn't be executed
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>which seems to be a bug in the patch
13:29<@peter1138>Should be simple to fix.
13:29<andythenorth>fun :)
13:29<@peter1138>Accept invalid cargo mappings.
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>accept invalid mappings in the loading phase, but complain in the execution
13:30<@peter1138>So if it's 0xFF when actually running it, then it's an error.
13:31<@peter1138>The mapping doesn't need to be moved.
13:31<@peter1138>It may be desirable to make loading give an invalid callback result rather than one that looks valid but isn't.
13:32<@peter1138>But either case would be checked in the same place, I guess.
13:32<nielsm>ugh, this is annoying... I can either resolve the actual CargoIDs every time the cb is executed
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>weather looking like "better not go outside"
13:32<@peter1138>nielsm, it's fine where they are
13:33<nielsm>or I can do some ugly caching that will involve either const_cast or mutable
13:33<@peter1138>if (cargo_index < 0 ) continue;
13:33<@peter1138>I don't think cargo_index < 0 is possible.
13:33<@peter1138>if it is, it already handles the case correctly.
13:34<@peter1138> if (cargo == CT_INVALID) return -1;
13:34<@peter1138>^^ yup
13:34<@peter1138>So the only bit missing is reporting an error if cargo_index < 0 there.
13:35<nielsm>okay I was misunderstanding the problem then
13:35<nielsm>I thought the grf was failing to load at all
13:36<nielsm>but it's just malfunctioning?
13:36<@peter1138>Shall I make a PR for andythenorth to test?
13:36<nielsm>if you have a better overview than me then yes please
13:38<Samu>oops, some stuff needs fixing yet
13:39<andythenorth>just put a patch on FS?
13:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
13:40<@peter1138>That branch name though.
13:41<@peter1138>So the bit missing now is to pop up an error if it skips a cargo type.
13:41<nielsm>hmm, I'd rather keep those if blocks
13:41<@peter1138>Or maybe that's valid?
13:41<nielsm>but add a condition to them, cargo != CT_INVALID
13:42<@peter1138>Hmm, I see.
13:42<nielsm>it's okay to resolve multiple invalid cargoes, but it's not okay to resolve the same type multiplem times
13:42<@peter1138>Okay, I'll tweak it. Meanwhile andythenorth can test the rest of his production code.
13:43<@peter1138>nielsm, did you understand about the error->data message?
13:43<@peter1138>Currently it shows the grf name in quotes.
13:44<@peter1138>I wonder if that is not the intention, and perhaps it should show the error->data message instead?
13:44<andythenorth>ok peter1138 that now loads the grf
13:44<@peter1138>andythenorth, yup, I know that. I don't know enough about your mechanics to acvtually test production :)
13:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
13:45<andythenorth>ok cool
13:45<andythenorth>I'm a ways off anything working
13:45<andythenorth>FIRS stuck rigidly to assumptions of 3 in, 2 out, because YAGNI
13:45<andythenorth>lots to change
13:46<nielsm>peter1138: nope, GRFError is weird to me
13:46<andythenorth>is there a way to give a list as args to make?
13:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
13:46<andythenorth>I can pass a single industry name and it will compile only that
13:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
13:47<andythenorth>but I can't pass multiple
13:47<@peter1138>nielsm, so now it permits CT_INVALID but otherwise checks duplicates.
13:48<@peter1138>I hope that some "economy" setting doesn't result in the same cargo ID for different mappings. I should not.
13:48<Samu>I have a question regarding this line
13:48<andythenorth>peter1138: wouldn't that imply changing the cargo ID?
13:48<Samu>shouldn't this Include be done after ensuring that at least 1 amount is moved?
13:48<Samu>after line 1065?
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13:49<andythenorth>or does it go via the CTT?
13:49<Samu>uint amount = min(num_pieces, 0xFFFFU - ind->incoming_cargo_waiting[cargo_index]); can make amount == 0
13:49<andythenorth>I mean, who'd change the cargo ID? :P Except me
13:50<@peter1138>andythenorth, it's all via the CTT. Not using the CTT would be an early-version GRF.
13:50<andythenorth>there was something once about multiple CTTs
13:50<andythenorth>it was a little drama
13:50<@peter1138>There are lots of CTTs.
13:50<@peter1138>They're unique to each loaded NewGRF.
13:51<andythenorth>this was multiple in same grf
13:51<andythenorth>canadian things
13:51<andythenorth>adapting the CTT to different vehicle sets
13:51<@peter1138>Samu, I don't think it can be.
13:51<Samu>why include an industry to the list if it receives 0?
13:52<@planetmaker>it might get something later?
13:52<@peter1138>Samu, prove to me that it can receive 0 at that point.
13:52<Samu>incoming_cargo_waiting could be a stockpile
13:53<nielsm>peter1138, I think it can reach that line even if ind->incoming_cargo_waiting[cargo_index] == 0xFFFF
13:54<nielsm>so the second arg to min would become zero
13:55<nielsm>question is, should be industry count as having received a delivery (of zero) if its stockpile is full?
13:55<@peter1138>And the problem is it will trigger production when it should not have done.
13:55<@peter1138>nielsm, probably not.
13:56<@peter1138>Samu, i guess this is just a case of explaining the problem clearly :p
13:57<@peter1138>andythenorth, I updated the PR if you want to retry it.
13:57<nielsm>the PR looks correct, I'll approve it if andythenorth can confirm it works
13:58<andythenorth>testing again
13:58<@peter1138>I guess this is an edge-case due to andythenorth implementing multiple "economies" on one NewGRF.
13:58<@peter1138>But it would be nice to backport it.
13:58<nielsm>imo 1.9.0 ought to work with upcoming FIRS :)
13:58<andythenorth>kinda yes
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13:59<andythenorth>but upcoming FIRS is more like 1.12 or something
13:59<andythenorth>takes a long time, FIRSing
13:59<@peter1138>Urgh, I need to update all the strings too :/
13:59<@peter1138>Apparently it's snowing.
13:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
14:00<andythenorth>so passing shell args as a list? o_O
14:00<andythenorth>no go?
14:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
14:03<@peter1138>So, one remaining issue.
14:04<@peter1138>It's an error to use this broken production callback, but that's not enforced.
14:04<nielsm>if it has invalid cargos? I guess yeah
14:04<@peter1138>Hmm, there's an "ErrorUnknownCallbackResult()"
14:04<@peter1138>It's not quite unknown :p
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14:05<@peter1138>Is it an invalid result, though.
14:05<@peter1138> * Record that a NewGRF returned an unknown/invalid callback result.
14:05<nielsm>ShowErrorMessage(STR_NEWGRF_BUGGY, STR_NEWGRF_BUGGY_something_new_with_invalid_cargos, WL_ERROR);
14:05<Samu>so, "should the industry count as having received a delivery (of zero) if its stockpile is full?"
14:06<nielsm>it's not really, just make the cb do nothing (and not loop) and show an error
14:06<nielsm>maybe even add a new flag on the IndustryProductionSpriteGroup to indicate it's invalid
14:06<Samu>need an answer to solve this dilema on my PR
14:06<nielsm>like maybe a false 'version' number (255)
14:07<@peter1138>nielsm, so change the loading AGAIN :D
14:07<@peter1138>flag the error on load
14:07<nielsm>if any of the cargos resolve to CT_INVALID during loading
14:07<@peter1138>and if it's used, ignore it.
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14:08<nielsm>during loading: if (cargo == CT_INVALID) group->version == 255;
14:08<nielsm>during execution: if (group->version == 255) { show_error(); return; }
14:08<nielsm>one = too many in first line
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14:13<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder, it may already have looped, and therefore produced cargo.
14:13<Samu>this feels wrong, I can't reject an industry and count it as the same time
14:13<nielsm>hmm yeah it could return different prod cbs on multiple loops
14:13<@peter1138>I think it doesn't matter.
14:14<nielsm>you'd need something to capture a "backtrace" of the cb chain then
14:14<@peter1138>I'm happy to accept this as an edge case that the NewGRF author should have taken care of.
14:19<TrueBrain>no, :q
14:19<@peter1138>TrueBrain, that is exactly what I typed :/
14:22<@peter1138>nielsm, be interesting to see if I get the warning popup :-)
14:24<Samu>found a bug peter1138 with your
14:24<Samu>a dock is receiving engineering supplies
14:24<Samu>and should not
14:24<@peter1138>it's probably not that one.
14:25<@peter1138>Yeah that was a cockup :/
14:25<@peter1138>andythenorth, I can't test this any further as there's no way to trigger production.
14:26<nielsm>hmm? but the industries that produce engineering supplies don't have attached stations
14:26<andythenorth>yeah I have quite a lot to do
14:26<nielsm>so those _should_ arrive at player stations
14:26<Samu>when hovering it, engineering supplies is not listed
14:26<Samu>but once placed, engineering supplies become listed
14:26<@peter1138>Can you give me a savegame?
14:27<andythenorth>if I stop playing Blitz every 10 mins, I can probably get 16-cargo FIRS working tonight
14:27<nielsm>oh, you meant "accepts engineering supplies" not "receives them"
14:27<@peter1138>Hmm, is it just the text that's wrong?
14:28<Samu>i dont know
14:28<@peter1138>Right, might not be producing.
14:28<Samu>the dock should not accept Engineering supplies
14:29<Samu>dock is also joined with a bus station
14:29<@peter1138>It may be that it doesn't and it's only the text there that's wrong.
14:29<@peter1138>But I'm speculating without that savegame.
14:30<@peter1138>At least this isn't anything that needs backporting :)
14:30<Samu>ugh, need to test on master :)
14:30<Samu>building master
14:31<Samu>gonna try rebuilding the bus station
14:32<@peter1138>fluidsynth: warning: Failed to pin the sample data to RAM; swapping is possible.
14:32<@peter1138>I don't have music playing, but I guess it still initializes it.
14:32<nielsm>it always gives me that warning
14:32<nielsm>yeah it starts the music driver on boot
14:33<nielsm>I'm not sure what to do to allow pinning, or even just silence the warning
14:33<Samu>that's funny
14:34<Samu>it seems to happen only because I loaded an old savegame?
14:34<andythenorth>is Samu our QA expert now? :)
14:34<@peter1138>Samu, acceptance is saved.
14:34<@planetmaker>doing not the worst job one can do
14:34<+michi_cc>nielsm: Dr. Google says
14:34<Samu>well, i'm gonna provide the old save then
14:35<@peter1138>Samu, if the game is unpaused, does the acceptance update?
14:35<+michi_cc>At least if you are in something Debian-based I guess.
14:35<@peter1138>Yeah, if it's memlock then you basically need to ignore the warning.
14:35<Samu>i think not, gonna retry
14:36<@peter1138>There may be a flag to tell fluidsynth to not try.
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14:38<Samu>i can't reproduce the bug, ... sorry, i have no idea why
14:39<Samu>maybe my master is not up to date ye
14:39<nielsm>found it
14:40<Samu>yeh, 23 commits behind
14:41<Samu>aha, triggered!
14:41<Samu>it's one of the last 23 commits
14:41<Samu>causing it
14:41<@peter1138>Don't bother trying to find out which one.
14:41<@peter1138>Just send me the save.
14:42<Samu>nevermind, i'm stupid
14:42<Samu>forgot to disable setting
14:44<Samu>there is no bug, just me doing my tests wrong
14:46<Samu>yeah, game was paused first time I spotted it
14:46<Samu> yep - pause button pressed
14:46<Samu>why im so dumb at times
14:47<@peter1138>Well, you might not expect that acceptance is not updated instantly.
14:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
14:47<@peter1138>And in fact, maybe it should be.
14:49<+glx>finally finished to rebase all my cmake branches
14:50<@peter1138>Hm, I wonder if acceptance needs to be updated after all the catchment is updated, or at the same time.
14:50<Samu>nah not needed
14:51<Samu>it was just me
14:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
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14:59<andythenorth>I look forward to rewriting FIRS in nml2 :D
15:01<TrueBrain>LordAro: I kept the lower case, as I18N looks weird
15:01<TrueBrain>but sure, what-ever you want :P
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15:04<andythenorth>produce block seems to be working btw
15:04<andythenorth>FIRS code is not finished, I just made it produce 100 units per prod cb run
15:04<andythenorth>amounts look kinda correct
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15:08<@peter1138>Just prepared veg for my dinner.
15:08<@peter1138>Been here so long I hadn't noticed the time.
15:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
15:08<@peter1138>Samu, I'm glad it wasn't a real bug, don't worry about it :)
15:09<@peter1138>Samu, with the (unpushed) catchment visualization patch it's trivial to see if it is correct.
15:09<@peter1138>With neutral stations, catchment for the station is only the industry, no surrounding tiles at all.
15:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
15:10<nielsm>I think we need a "catchment"/"influence area" button graphic that can be used in both station windows and in town windows
15:10<nielsm>to see catchment and town LA zones
15:11<@peter1138>I have it, keeping it to myself ;)
15:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
15:15<andythenorth> 52s to compile FIRS
15:16<nielsm>yeah a newgrf linker would be nice :)
15:16<nielsm>or perhaps multiple
15:17<andythenorth>how many times can I write to a register in one switch?
15:17<andythenorth>no idea what nml does with that internally
15:17<nielsm>one that consumes multiple objects and combine to one object, adjusting sprite numbers and references
15:18<nielsm>and another that takes an object and some string data and produces strings sprites and fixes up string ids in the object
15:18<andythenorth>this should result in values of 1100+ in register 10
15:18<andythenorth>it doesn't
15:18<andythenorth>the value is 100 in all cases
15:18<andythenorth>I wonder if registers are updated immediate, or if there's some flushing?
15:19<nielsm>hmm that ought to produce a chain of multiple varaction2 afaik?
15:19<andythenorth>that's what I assumed
15:19<andythenorth>am I just being thick? Is the syntax correct?
15:20<nielsm>oh uh
15:20<nielsm>the last step is STORE_PERM(100, 10)
15:20<nielsm>which overwrites anything previously stored in perm 10
15:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
15:21<andythenorth>because nfo works upwards, I sometimes forget that nml is sensible :P
15:21<andythenorth>I taught my brain to do logic backwards for action 2 chains
15:22<andythenorth>I am reading that switch and expanding it to advanced varact 2 :P
15:22<andythenorth>but nml does that for me
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15:23<nielsm>empty line added :(
15:23<@peter1138>nielsm, comment on the PR :p
15:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
15:24<@peter1138>Okay, do I need to protect this error message to stop it being spammy?
15:24<nielsm>nah, annoy anyone using a buggy grf
15:25<@peter1138>I kinda need a buggy test GRF to test it ;)
15:26<Samu>testing an AI in multiplayer
15:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
15:28<@peter1138>^ nielsm ?
15:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
15:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
15:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
15:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
15:31<@peter1138>checking fluidsynth... not found
15:31<@peter1138>Yeah, maybe we need to fix that.
15:31<@peter1138>CI does not check fluidsynth.
15:31<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder if the release build includes it.
15:32<nielsm>linux static?
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15:32<supermop_Home_>no pipes on flat cars andy
15:33<andythenorth>supermop_Home_: needs cargo drawn
15:33<@peter1138>Indeed, no fluidsynth in releases./
15:33<andythenorth>want to contributify supermop_Home_ ?
15:33<@peter1138>Is it wanted?
15:34<andythenorth>supermop_Home_: cargos go in here
15:34<andythenorth>then they're automatically applied in Horse, Hog, Sam
15:34<nielsm>I think libfluidsynth will only work well if it has a system-wide (or maybe user-wide) configuration file specifying a sample bank
15:35<supermop_Home_>andythenorth can take the pipes i drew for my nrt RVs
15:36<andythenorth>there's some in CHIPS as well
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15:42<@peter1138>nielsm, ok.
15:43<@peter1138>nielsm, just means it passes CI even if the code is wrong ;)
15:49<LordAro>TrueBrain: it's like xkcd - "xkcd" is preferred, but where necessary "XKCD" is better than "Xkcd"
15:50<TrueBrain>LordAro: it is nothing like that, but I like your thinking :D
15:50<TrueBrain>(xkcd is not a combination of 2 words :P)
15:56<andythenorth>oof integer maths strikes again
15:56<andythenorth>really andythenorth
15:56<andythenorth>so many parentheses here :P
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16:01<andythenorth>nielsm: ultimately this new produce cb is so much a better format
16:01<andythenorth>the final FIRS code is no shorter, but much cleaner
16:03<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> this was multiple in same grf <-- NFO allows that, but NML doesn't.
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>but nowadays there's no need for that
16:04<andythenorth>so am I going to preserve leftover cargo then?
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>as the refit lists now properly handle higher numbers of CTT entries
16:04*andythenorth changes the subject abruptly :)
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i see no reason not to.
16:05<andythenorth>me neither, apart from working out the calculation
16:05<andythenorth>I'll finish this soon and pushi
16:05<andythenorth>it *
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>why "work out the calculation"? you have a reason to change it from the existing one?
16:06<andythenorth>I've adjusted how the production is calculated
16:07<andythenorth>should be same final result
16:08<andythenorth>nml ternary, second value is if true, third is false?
16:08<andythenorth>first is condition?
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i haven't confirmed that that's what your calculation does, but it should work roughly like this: you have a calculation o=a/b, which is subject to rounding error. so you save the remainder as it to o'=a%b. then in the next round you can incorporate the remainder again, so it becomes o=(a+o')/b, and o'=(a+o')%b
16:09<andythenorth>yes that's roughly what it does
16:13<@Alberth>cond ? true-value : false-value indeed
16:13<@peter1138>Mmm, medium-rare lamb fillet steak..
16:14<@peter1138>Somewhat a different beast from the lamb chops cooked to a desert-like dryness that mum used to cook...
16:15<andythenorth>lamb is not like lamb when I was a kid
16:17<@peter1138>1 hour to prepare. 5 minutes to eat.
16:17<@peter1138>Well, the lamb was only 10 minutes.
16:17<@peter1138>Not a long slow roast for that.
16:17<@peter1138>nielsm, are you fixing #7365?
16:19<nielsm>uh at some point yes
16:19<nielsm>busy atm
16:19<andythenorth>newgrf debug window displays register values
16:19<andythenorth>option to set them? o_O
16:19<@peter1138>Feature request ;)
16:21<andythenorth>imagine the cheating possibilities :)
16:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
16:29<andythenorth>oof my code fails
16:29<andythenorth>so close, so far
16:37<@peter1138>nielsm, made zero difference :(
16:38<@peter1138>Tried moving it before new_fluid_synth() and still no dice.
16:41<nielsm>wrong window
16:42<TrueBrain>wait, you are talking with more people besides us?! :(
16:49<@peter1138>fluidsynth code could do with some comments :p
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16:55<andythenorth>oof does anyone know if FIRS secondary closure code works?
16:55<andythenorth>I never use it, so eh
16:56<nielsm>no idea
16:56<nielsm>it sounds unfun from the description so I never enabled it
16:57<@peter1138>nielsm, line 1495
16:58<@peter1138>Oh forget it, the test is confusing with negatives all over the plac :/
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16:59<@peter1138>nielsm, I'm getting a FLUID_FAILED return value.
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17:00<@peter1138>Uh oh.
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17:00<@peter1138>All thoses ghosts...
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17:01<nielsm>peter1138 any idea if it's parameter not found, or something else?
17:01<@peter1138>Difficult to see :(
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17:27<@peter1138>SSE -> USE_SSE.
17:27<@peter1138>THe code uses WITH_SSE.
17:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc requested changes for pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
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17:30<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I await leftover cargo PRs with interest :)
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you actually coded in a readable language...
17:30<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, like NML?
17:31<andythenorth>what, an xhtml templating language is inappropriate for templating nml? :P
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17:31<+michi_cc>nielsm: Where you or TB doing a DOS build?
17:31<andythenorth>strictly I think the old code was flawed, as it paid no attention to min_cargo_distr afaict
17:31<andythenorth>but I might make min_cargo_distr 1
17:31<andythenorth>instead of 5
17:31<TrueBrain>michi_cc: I am :) Tomorrow I hope to make it in a docker :P
17:31<andythenorth>NFI what min_cargo_distr does :P
17:31<+glx>peter1138: hmm in cmake branch USE_SSE defines WITH_SSE IIRC
17:32<+michi_cc>Does the used compiler come with proper C++11 <thread> and <mutex> headers?
17:32<+glx>well SSE_FOUND defines WITH_SSE
17:32<+michi_cc>Or put it differently, is a WITHOUT_THREADS options still needed even with a C++11 compiler?
17:32<TrueBrain>michi_cc: docker run --rm -it -u0:0 -v"`pwd`":/source anibali/djgpp
17:32<TrueBrain>I have no clue :D
17:33<@peter1138>Are threads a thing on DOS?
17:33<nielsm>not really no
17:33<+michi_cc>C++11 requires a thread type, but I don't know if it requires it to do anything
17:33<@peter1138>Ah yes, makes sense.
17:34<andythenorth>I'm sure I only added leftover cargo because I made some stupid tiny vehicles in HEQS
17:34<andythenorth>and nothing got produced
17:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you want to store the remainder per input (or output) cargo type, then the template must know which position in the produce callback it is in
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17:39<andythenorth>L50 or so Eddi|zuHause
17:39<andythenorth>and L10
17:39<andythenorth>in combination
17:39<andythenorth>in fact L10 is irrelevant, we can just clear all the cargo from stockpile and keep in register
17:40<andythenorth>but around L50, need to calulate the remainder cargo and put that in a perm register
17:41<andythenorth>I can do the template; it's the calculation of remainder I don't understand
17:43<andythenorth>I'm unclear of the problem definition tbh
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18:13<@peter1138>Hmm, WATERCLASS_DOCK?
18:16<andythenorth>I have no idea
18:16<andythenorth>hmm all my industries are closing :(
18:17<andythenorth>but then again, I disabled the closure control :P
18:17<@peter1138>Well, multiple docks, but...
18:17<andythenorth>multiple Airports?
18:17<@peter1138>It's inefficient, because it checks for a dock... every tile...
18:18<andythenorth>wow, default industry closure behaviour is horrid
18:18<andythenorth>after 5 years my map starts getting emptied
18:18<@peter1138>Yeah, you've made it too easy?
18:18<andythenorth>oh but new industries get built :o
18:19<@peter1138>That's a thing, yes.
18:19<andythenorth>yeah I wish I could just tweak the default closure
18:19<+michi_cc>Bad DJGPP, pretends to support C++11, ships with a <thread> header, but doesn't even define std::thread.
18:19<@peter1138>Can't you?
18:19<andythenorth>instead of having to prevent it, with nothing to over-ride
18:19<@peter1138>michi_cc, oof
18:19<andythenorth>maybe I can rethink closure
18:20<+michi_cc>So, either no DOS, useless thread_*.cpp files or #ifdefs in various places.
18:20<andythenorth>why should an industry close? o_O
18:20<@peter1138>Not being supplied.
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18:21<@peter1138>Burned down in a fire.
18:21<@peter1138>Boycotted by right-wing anti-SJW thugs.
18:22<andythenorth>what if it was just unlucky?
18:22<andythenorth>'sorry this industry just closed'
18:22<LordAro>Poorly managed.
18:23<LordAro>and, for balance, Boycotted by left-wing SJW thugs
18:23<LordAro>oh no, i said the 'b' word
18:23<andythenorth>maybe I just make the old FIRS behaviour come back
18:23<andythenorth>'no closure'
18:23<andythenorth>and do something better in v9000
18:24<@peter1138>Oh, I can't add a waterclass :(
18:24<andythenorth>Oh noes
18:24<@peter1138>It's only 2 bits and all 4 values are used.
18:24<@peter1138>"INVALID" :/
18:24<andythenorth>buy more bits
18:25<@peter1138>Extend to 3 bits?
18:26<@peter1138>Or scrap this idea...
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18:28<Eddi|zuHause>what's the new water class for?
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>iirc there's usually bit 7 available...
18:28<@peter1138>I think I don't want a water class, tbh.
18:29<@peter1138>I might just want to use bit 7 by itself.
18:29<@peter1138>I need a way to mark tiles as being a docking tile.
18:29<@peter1138>Alternatively, I could try making a specific station tile for it.
18:30<andythenorth>anyone know what this is for? Legacy thing?
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18:30<Samu>i had a pr that got closed about that
18:30<andythenorth>and can I set it to 1, not 5
18:31<Samu>waterclass dock, kekeke
18:32<@peter1138>andythenorth, not legacy. It is literally what it says it is.
18:32<Samu>let me search from my list of closed prs
18:32<@peter1138>That will take a while, there's a lot of them.
18:33<Samu>got 49 closed pr's dayum
18:33<andythenorth>trying to envisage a reason for distributing 5 units instead of 1 :P
18:33<andythenorth>FIRS is set to 5 currently
18:34<@peter1138>fruit/rubber plantations default to 15
18:35<@peter1138>cotton candy factory is 30
18:35<@peter1138>as are batteries
18:35<@peter1138>Samu, that looks wholly not like what I'm doing.
18:36<andythenorth>wonder if that's supposed to simulate slow production cycle
18:36<andythenorth>when prod. multiplier is low
18:36<andythenorth>anyway, I set it to 1, see if it kills kittens
18:37<nielsm>as I understand, the amount of cargo returned in each individual prod cb during one loop doesn't really matter, only the sum across the entire loop
18:38<nielsm>so if you can return all the cargo in fewer loop steps, you have better performance
18:38<Samu>The produced cargo will be distributed to stations only after it exceeds this amount.
18:38<Samu>I know what this is
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18:39<Samu>lets say you deliver 2 wood to a sawmill
18:39<Samu>it won't produce 2 goods right away, only when it gets 5 wood
18:41<Samu>if you deliver 2 wood, then later on, 3 wood , it will then transform the wood into 5 goods
18:42<andythenorth>and when it's primary?
18:42<Samu>if it produces really low values, i guess it will wait for the next production cycle
18:43<Samu>not sure
18:43<Samu>it will "stockpile" until it meets a min of 5
18:44<TrueBrain>michi_cc: so we are dropping DOS you say? :P Saves me from creating a docker :)
18:44<TrueBrain>if we drop DOS btw, we can also drop ENABLE_NETWORK stuff :P
18:45<TrueBrain>lot of exceptions for a single target .. but meh
18:45<+michi_cc>Depends... stubbing in a dummy std::thread isn't that hard if we really wanted to.
18:47<nielsm>I think i've seen some #ifdef guards for threads...
18:47<+michi_cc>But before that can happen, OTTD needs quite some cleanup. We do stuff like acquiring a mutex on the main thread and releasing it on another thread, which, surprise, surprise, makes nice STL asserts.
18:48<TrueBrain>I smell a new project :)
18:49<+michi_cc>nielsm: Ideally all our custom thread_* something files could vanish, but if a platform doesn't even define the classes, we'd still need #ifdef's or a custom wrapper class.
18:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
18:50<@peter1138>^ I mean, it worked for me :p
18:50*LordAro looks at irc, sees DorpsGek_II message
18:50*LordAro 's phone buzzes, "ooh, an email"
18:51<LordAro>it is of course, the same message
18:51<@peter1138>Don't worry, we've not merged NRT yet.
18:52<andythenorth>'ooh an email' I think never
18:52<andythenorth>I dread the damn things
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18:54<LordAro>oh sure, it was perhaps more of a "what's my phone buzzing about"
18:54<@peter1138>So if I wanted, instead, to make docking tiles be actual station tiles, I'd have to take account of slopes and... things in the way :/
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18:55<@peter1138>Samu's so called 3rd tile, which may current be something other than plain water.
18:56<@peter1138>It's simple to add a 3rd tile that is actually a station tile.
18:56<@peter1138>But not so simple to convert old savegames.
18:57<@peter1138>I could cheat and use a bit that's free in every tile type
18:59<Samu>"this savegame cannot be converted. load aborted"
19:00<Samu>"some docks were removed after savegame load"
19:00<Samu>but what are you trying to do?
19:01<@peter1138>load aborted. lol.
19:01<@peter1138>I want an efficient way to detect docking tile of a dock.
19:03<andythenorth>let's do more FIRS
19:03<andythenorth>hmm, that's not docks though
19:04<andythenorth>what's the inefficient way peter1138 ?
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19:05<@peter1138>Currently it iterates the docking tiles of the destination station to compare it with the pathfinder's current tile.
19:05<@peter1138>And that... is for every tile the pathfinder explores.
19:06<@peter1138>If the docking tile becomes an actual station tile, then it's a simple "is this the right station" check.
19:06<@peter1138>but that has the 3rd-tile issue.
19:07<nielsm>NewDocks time!
19:07<@peter1138>That's the one.
19:07<andythenorth>nobody mentioned state machines yet?
19:07<@peter1138>andythenorth, no because that's irrelevant.
19:07<@peter1138>A state machine would be what you do when you're at the dock.
19:07<@peter1138>You still need to find it.
19:08*nielsm thinks of RCT boat rides
19:08<@peter1138>The old old way that bus stops used to use was to preallocate a specific stop to use.
19:08<@peter1138>then you just sent a vehicle to a specific tile, and it's easy.
19:08<andythenorth>hmm is cb 37 working with > 3 cargos?
19:09<nielsm>it should yes
19:09<nielsm>there isn't any specific nml support for it but I don't think that's needed
19:09<nielsm>but the bitstuffed format has changed
19:10<@peter1138>Yes, that uses cargo ids, not bitmaps.
19:10<Samu>can't the pathfinder be given multiple tiles?
19:12<andythenorth>nielsm: interesting result
19:12<Samu>when I was toying with road pathfinder on my ai, i could insert multiple destinations
19:12<andythenorth>I might have it configured wrong though
19:12<Samu>never actually used it though
19:13<andythenorth>the supplied cargos should be manganese (correct) and oxygen
19:13<andythenorth>it's not economy aware, and doesn't use labels
19:13<andythenorth>just relies on positions
19:13<andythenorth>so might be my error
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19:14<nielsm>you should first extract bits 0..7 and compare against 0 and 1 (input/output)
19:14<nielsm>actually maybe compare bits 0..15 in one go if you only need to handle a few cases
19:15<nielsm>then after selecting the display case, compare bits 16..23 against cargotype("COAL") or whatever
19:15<nielsm>to select the final string
19:15<andythenorth>ok that's quite an advance on the original approach
19:16<nielsm>probably 0..15 against 0x0100 for accepted cargo in the industry's own status window
19:17<nielsm>and the rest might not need to be handled at all?
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19:18<andythenorth>original FIRS code just checks
19:18<andythenorth>getbits(extra_callback_info2, 0, 8)
19:18<andythenorth>and then chooses a text if any cargo has been delivered for that cargo num
19:19<andythenorth>what sets prop 1A flag 18
19:19*andythenorth looks it up
19:19<@peter1138>bits 0..7 used to contin the slot number.
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19:20<@peter1138>0-2 were inputs, 3 & 4 were outputs
19:20<andythenorth>yeah the new format replaces
19:21<andythenorth>oof me eyes are going, it's bedtime
19:21<@peter1138>Now you don't get the slot, you get the grf-local cargo type in bits 16..23
19:21<andythenorth>me / my /s
19:21<@peter1138>and bits 0..7 contain the in vs out
19:21<andythenorth>I need to set the flag on 1A first
19:22<andythenorth>oh yes, that's not in the nml docs yet :)
19:22<@peter1138>Shouldn't that be set already if you're doing 16-in-out alreadY/
19:23<nielsm>it's not strictly needed no
19:23<nielsm>but maybe nml should just set it by default now
19:23<@peter1138>Yeah, if you're able to do 16-in/16-out, then nml should've just set it/
19:24<nielsm>I think I need to get sleep (too)
19:24<@peter1138>If that bit isn't set, then itwill only do 3/2
19:25<andythenorth>hmm FIRS has crappy support for spec_flags, never needed them in industries
19:25<@peter1138>Samu, yeah, the problem is testing multiple tiles every time it moves to a new tile.
19:25<andythenorth>job for tomorrow
19:25<@peter1138>Anyway, shouldn't nml handle all this testing bits for you?
19:25<@peter1138>Or is that a lol?
19:26<andythenorth>it might be in nml now
19:26<andythenorth>I haven't got that far yet
19:26<andythenorth>'old' FIRS had to check the bits, because nml wasn't maintained for this
19:27<@peter1138>Yeah, and this is why "nmlc should allow old stuff to work" just won't work.
19:28<andythenorth>nmlc needs to be quite scorched earth
19:29<andythenorth>I can't see an nml commit for cb 37 changes
19:31<andythenorth>should be Dec 2017 or so, near this
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19:32<andythenorth>also super defo bedtime
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19:34<@peter1138>Ok, so m1 bit 7
19:34<@peter1138>Set if tile is docking tile.
20:29<@peter1138>Whew, that was a horrible performance regression there...
20:29<@peter1138>Turns out, debug-level 3 :/
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20:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
20:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
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22:04<supermop_Home_>why do no servers have cdist on?
22:04<supermop_Home_>or use newgrfs
22:09<Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> It's simple to add a 3rd tile that is actually a station tile. <-- i would probably do that
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22:14<supermop_Home_>i hope these other players are AIs
22:15<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_Home_: apparently there's too little overlap between players that want to play online and those that can accept a certain set of newgrfs that they did not hand.pick themselves
22:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7366: Add: List recently executed commands in crashlog output.
22:19<supermop_Home_>i would settle for almost anything other than tropic base set trains
22:20<Samu>hey supermop_Home_ you're on my game?
22:23<Samu>red is an AI
22:23<Samu>Bold Network
22:23<supermop_Home_>hard to find anywhere to fit tracks between the ai rails
22:24<Samu>I could try cargodist sometime
22:26<Samu>which newgrfs do you want? I don't usually try newgrfs much
22:26<supermop_Home_>basic stuff is pretty good, like iron horse
22:27<Samu>there's iron horse, iron horse quicksilver add on, iron horse 2, termite
22:29<Samu>just iron horse?
22:32<Samu>what about ships, aircraft, road vehicles?
22:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7367: Change: Include _current_company in crashlog AI config line
22:33<Samu>so many newgrfs that I have a hard time to pick
22:35<supermop_Home_>RVs i guess it doesn't matter as much, just something generic but that can be refitted, has better capacity than the defaults
22:36<Samu>uhm, which ones? I'm very unfamiliar regarding newgrfs
22:39<supermop_Home_>road hog is good, opengfx+ RVs is good
22:39<supermop_Home_>egrvts is ok
22:39<supermop_Home_>kind of old
22:40<supermop_Home_>all of those will let you use newgrf industries
22:40<supermop_Home_>and they are all pretty similar to the original vehicles, just a little nicer looking and more flexible
22:40<Samu>oki, iron horse 1.9.1
22:40<Samu>road hog 1.4.1
22:41<Samu>would be a nice test for AIs
22:41<Samu>ships and planes, anything worth using? and which industry newgrf?
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23:21<Samu>supermop_Home_, you there?
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23:30<supermop_Home_>going for a walk
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 11 00:00:07 2019