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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-03-11

---Logopened Mon Mar 11 00:00:07 2019
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02:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7366: Add: List recently executed commands in crashlog output. https://git.io/fhjkm
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02:47<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it's not simple :(
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03:11<@peter1138>So...
03:11<andythenorth>docks?
03:12<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks1.png
03:12<@peter1138>Yes
03:13<@peter1138>No custom tiles yet.
03:13<@peter1138>Station tile layout or house/industrytile/object style?
03:13<andythenorth>jeez
03:14<@peter1138>red square is debugging for docking location for pathfinder.
03:14<andythenorth>is there any reason to choose station tile layout?
03:14<@peter1138>andythenorth, only that it's already there.
03:14<andythenorth>will this end up newgrf configurable?
03:14<andythenorth>eventually?
03:15<@peter1138>But I think it may be easy to bolt on the "new style" for non-rail stations.
03:15<@peter1138>(Well, even rail stations but not tackling that)
03:15<andythenorth>the old style never gained nml support
03:15<andythenorth>nml ! stations
03:15<@peter1138>Quite
03:15<andythenorth>but you probably want to add station support to nml, right?
03:15<andythenorth>volunteering?
03:15<@peter1138>Maybe later.
03:15<@peter1138>I want to get this working.
03:16<andythenorth>I lke the tile format for industrytile
03:16<andythenorth>it works for me, makes sense
03:16<@peter1138>The red squares is just highlight debugging for docking tile
03:16<@peter1138>As I have to update it periodically if the tile gets changed.
03:16<andythenorth>yes :)
03:16<@peter1138>Plan is the docking tile will be able to be adjacent to andy dock tile.
03:16<@peter1138>so single-tile docks.
03:16<andythenorth>arbitrary slopes on the tile? o_O
03:16<@peter1138>Dock tile can then be placed on slope, or flat land.
03:17<@peter1138>yes, maybe any slope
03:17<@peter1138>direction isn't going to be important.
03:17<andythenorth>arbitrary docking points in industries? o_O
03:17<andythenorth>industry docks are weird :P
03:17<@peter1138>Yeah they are.
03:17<@peter1138>And it should be possible to place dock tiles... in water.
03:17<@peter1138>Which opens up a can of worms
03:18<@peter1138>maybe that won't be possible
03:18<@peter1138>you could just spam water tiles with docks then
03:18<andythenorth>gr8!
03:18<@peter1138>But anyway
03:18<@peter1138>YAPF pathfinding seems to work.
03:18<@peter1138>I haven't tackled NPF.
03:19<@peter1138>And LOL @ OPF.
03:19<andythenorth>opf is gone?
03:19<@peter1138>Not yet.
03:20<@peter1138>Hmm, SLV_MULTIPLE_DOCKS should... maybe SLV_MULTITILE_DOCKS
03:22<@peter1138>Hmm, should a buoy be able to be a docking tile?
03:22<@peter1138>I guess so.
03:23<@peter1138>What about a ship depot... I think that currently works but is kinda odd.
03:24<@peter1138>I haven't done anything with reserving slots so ships always take the nearest docking tile.
03:28<andythenorth>a ship depot as dock?
03:29<@peter1138>Not a dock, a docking tile.
03:29<andythenorth>"no need" ?
03:32<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks2.png
03:32<@peter1138>^ That is currently an arrangement that works.
03:32<@peter1138>As long as the ship can reach the docking tile...
03:32<@peter1138>Same with buoys.
03:34<andythenorth>what if towns build blocking the tiles? o_O
03:35<andythenorth>docking tiles on aqueducts?
03:35<@peter1138>If towns block the tiles then Samu will tell us about it.
03:39<andythenorth>docking tiles in locks!
03:39<andythenorth>ship goes up and down while docked
03:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470) https://git.io/fhhh5
03:48<@peter1138>Eh, not actually IN the lock.
03:48<@peter1138>But yes, either end is possible.
03:51*andythenorth tries to think of any more silly ideas
03:52<andythenorth>all out of water features
03:52<andythenorth>dock tiles in ship tunnels? o_O
03:55<andythenorth>shall we add minecarts?
03:55<andythenorth>and crafting?
03:57<@peter1138>I need to make lunch.
03:57<@peter1138>And maybe have more breakfast. Is one slice of toast sufficient?
03:59<andythenorth>no
04:00<andythenorth>you need melon and some oranges
04:00<@peter1138>I have clementines but no melon.
04:00<@peter1138>Hmm
04:00<@peter1138>Ok, m1 bit 7 is free for station tiles too, that's good.
04:01<@peter1138>And, indeed, tunnels and bridges.
04:04<Flygon>Oh nuts, can't buy out a human competitor in OTTD. x.x
04:05<Flygon>Promised a friend I'd merge the two companies so he'd have an easier introduction into MP.
04:16<Flygon>He made his own company, but felt overwhelmed by infrastructure sharing.
04:17<@peter1138>So you're not playing OpenTTD. Traitor!
04:17<Flygon>:V
04:17<Flygon>They're new to it!
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04:20<@peter1138>thats even worse ;)
04:21<Flygon>:V
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04:39<Flygon>So the only option is for them to totally disassemble their company?
04:39<Flygon>No way to convert it into an AI player?
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05:11<TrueBrain>I have been thinking ... talking about cutting old: we should drop DOS support. It has no threads (not fixable), it has no network (somewhat fixable, but nobody is going to do it), it has no cmake (NOOOO), any "real" DOS machine won't have the memory, it has bugs nobody is going to fix, it bloats our codebase for "a joke" (you can say a lot, but I
05:11<TrueBrain>strongly doubt we have a real DOS userbase :P) .. so .. how about we just remove it? All ENABLE_NETWORK statements can be removed, some other special-case code can just vanish, etc. Too drastic? Agree? :D
05:12<@peter1138>Probably yes.
05:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure https://git.io/fhhdG
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05:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7366: Add: List recently executed commands in crashlog output. https://git.io/fhjLF
05:20<LordAro>TrueBrain: ask about it in the monthly dev blog :)
05:20<TrueBrain>I guess that is fair
05:20<TrueBrain>we can also ask about OS/2 and Haiku? :P
05:22<LordAro>we could, but idk - i get dropping old and dead operating systems, but dropping little-used OSes because they're little-used is a bit self fulfilling
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05:25<planetmaker>moin
05:29<TrueBrain>LordAro: but there is little used, and never used :)
05:29<TrueBrain>and we are not dropping it because it is little used
05:29<TrueBrain>we are dropping it because we have a huge technical debt because of it
05:29<TrueBrain>or you means OS/2 and Haiku?
05:29<TrueBrain>sorry, my mind didn't change state :P
05:29<TrueBrain>isn't OS/2 also dead?
05:29<TrueBrain>and yeah, okay, Haiku is fine I guess :P
05:29<TrueBrain>someone needs to fix the bugs in network, but .. that is minor
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>how about adding android/iOS as supported platforms?
05:31<TrueBrain>go for it Eddi|zuHause
05:31<TrueBrain>hmm .. why is spelling check not working in GitHub editor :(
05:31<LordAro>perhaps, but also Haiku & OS/2 are much lower maintrnance than DOS, as they do have networking, threads & cmake
05:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
05:32<TrueBrain>LordAro: yeah, I am fine with Haiku
05:32<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, I've managed to get it compiled for Android.
05:32<TrueBrain>OS/2 .. no clue what the state is
05:32<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, I've not tried running it yet though.
05:32<TrueBrain>I haven't test it, and I doubt someone else has :D
05:33<@peter1138>Because I compiled it without a video driver :p
05:33<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: the biggest thing to fix in Android/iOS, is UI I guess :P
05:33<@peter1138>TrueBrain, ish.
05:33<TrueBrain>LordAro: but okay, asked in the post about DOS; we will see if people reply :)
05:33<@peter1138>It needs to be done in a nice generic way.
05:33<@peter1138>Unlike what the patches do.
05:34<@peter1138>Toolbar buttons down the side of the screen might work quite well on desktop too.
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05:34<TrueBrain>after porting to various of platforms in the old days, my personal opinion became that I do not believe OpenTTD is a playable game on a mobile device (including tablets)
05:35<TrueBrain>I love to be proven wrong :D
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, switching to a "fat finger/touchscreen/miniscreen" mode must be generic enough to work on every OS, with maybe a detection routine to set a sane default
05:36<@peter1138>TrueBrain, yeah it needs a mouse pointer, I think.
05:36<dwfreed>because you could be running openttd on windows with a touchscreen display (like a surface pro)
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>it could incorporate the gui zoom/font zoom features
05:36<TrueBrain>so, a new projct
05:36<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause is the project owner
05:36<TrueBrain>any questions can be directed to him
05:37<TrueBrain>:D
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a horrible idea :p
05:37<TrueBrain>that's what she said
05:37<LordAro>dwfreed: x2 gui zoom, done
05:37<LordAro>:p
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>... and she was probably right
05:38<planetmaker>there is an android port... it surely could be canibalized to make it proper
05:39<@peter1138>i have it imported heh
05:39<@peter1138>first step is to fix the build system
05:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7366: Add: List recently executed commands in crashlog output. https://git.io/fhjtB
05:40<@peter1138>gui changes are obviously required but come later
05:41<@peter1138>sdl 1.2 android port is clunky, sdl 2 might be better
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>have we settled on the debate of whether sdl2 support should remove sdl1.2 support or be a separate driver?
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>i see the potential for lots of fringe cases breaking with sdl2
05:45<@peter1138>at the moment its not ready
05:45<Eddi|zuHause>might be helpful to tell those people to use "-v sdl1"
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06:01<TrueBrain>I am so happy I put a space in my folder name
06:01<TrueBrain>once again glx broke support for that :P (it is either he or me doing it :D)
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>good test case :)
06:08<@peter1138>Do we want the CI to build with fluidsynth suport?
06:08<@peter1138>*support
06:08<@peter1138>It would be an extra library for users to install.
06:09<planetmaker>for the end user?
06:09<planetmaker>hm
06:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nielsmh commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhjqI
06:10<planetmaker>well. On linux it doesn't hurt, if you install via package manager. Or you compile it in statically
06:10<@peter1138>Hmm, actually...
06:10<@peter1138>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=84911#p1219240
06:10<TrueBrain>peter1138: we only publish Debian packages that users can use on Linux
06:10<@peter1138>That post would suggest it is. Hmm.
06:10<@peter1138>TrueBrain, true.
06:10<TrueBrain>the CI doesn't produce downloadable binaries
06:11<TrueBrain>so I guess your question is two-fold: should we change os/debian, os/rpm, etc to include fluidsynth
06:11<TrueBrain>and should we add fluidsynth to the CI so it is validated it still works?
06:11<TrueBrain>on that last note, guess it would be good to install allegro etc too
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>i think enough people requested a generic linux binary that we should consider providing one
06:11<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: https://github.com/OpenTTD/CompileFarm/issues/22
06:12<TrueBrain>we considered it. The answer resulted in a ticket
06:12<TrueBrain>now get to work :P
06:12<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, we should, just needs someone™ to set it up :)
06:12<@peter1138>TrueBrain, sorry I was conflating the two, I wasn't sure if adding it to the CI build rules would also affect the release/nightly builds.
06:12<TrueBrain>we can't keep going in this same circle ;) It is not a question IF we should do it, but WHEN someone is going to :P
06:12<TrueBrain>peter1138: nope :)
06:13<TrueBrain>exactly the reason I split them in two flows btw :)
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06:15<@peter1138>Ok
06:16<@peter1138>Yeah so allegro too? Or are we dropping that?
06:17<TrueBrain>for now, lets keep it
06:17<@peter1138>Ok.
06:18<TrueBrain>CMake showed me a lot of these libraries that are missing on the CI
06:18<TrueBrain>yeah, fluidsynth and allegro are not fixed yet on the CI
06:18<TrueBrain>the rest is
06:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #7366: Add: List recently executed commands in crashlog output. https://git.io/fhjqP
06:27<andythenorth>TrueBrain: drop DOS, it's showboating to keep it
06:27<andythenorth>I kill jokes quite often in newgrf
06:27<andythenorth>after a few years, they're no longer funny
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06:46<@peter1138>Yes yes.
06:46<@peter1138>On branch multiple-docks
06:46<@peter1138>nothing to commit, working tree clean
06:46<@peter1138>Well
06:48<@peter1138>TrueBrain, hmm, I guess Linux dependencies are done differently from OSX?
06:48<@peter1138>It was azure-pipelines for OSX
06:49<@peter1138>I wonder if fluidsynth works on OSX? :D
06:51<@peter1138>andythenorth, did you ever try the palette "fix" I made? (SDL 1.2 only, dunno if you can run that)
06:53<andythenorth>I didn't
06:53<andythenorth>is it a PR? o_O
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07:02<@peter1138>Nah
07:05<@peter1138>Night mode sounds particularly useless.
07:05<@peter1138>Seeing as a game day takes about 2.5 seconds...
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>i was browsing through some patches i stored ages ago, and among those was one that looked like it applied some palette magic to switch to night mode
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>it was called "rAncient" and referenced .c files :p
07:15<@peter1138>:-)
07:15<@peter1138>Yeah, palette magic is actually easy, especially now we're in 32bpp mode these days.
07:15<@peter1138>It's just the lights, and the practicality of it.
07:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7367: Change: Include _current_company in crashlog AI config line https://git.io/fhjmD
07:28<TrueBrain>peter1138: Linux are done via Docker, as we need to run on different "OSes" there
07:28<TrueBrain>OSX only has one, as does Windows, so they are done directly via Azure Pipelines
07:29<@peter1138>Yup. That makes sense.
07:29<TrueBrain>bit annoying, but what can you do
07:29<@peter1138>I'll have to figure out how to play with docker. No bad thing.
07:30<TrueBrain>I have to figure out why my spinning disk is causing hickups on my system :(
07:30<TrueBrain>to see how the Dockers are build (and run) you can check the Azure Pipelines
07:30<TrueBrain>if you want more detailed walk-through, let me know :)
07:31<TrueBrain>okay, my computer is acting REALLY weird now .. lol .. stupid Windows :(
07:31<TrueBrain>only Chrome works .. rest of the windows are stuck :P
07:32<TrueBrain>but only with mouse interactions
07:32<TrueBrain>with keyboard it is fine
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07:33<@peter1138>Oh dear...
07:33<@peter1138>I hope your drive is not toast :/
07:33<TrueBrain>rebooted the system, everything is fine again
07:33<TrueBrain>weird
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like typical Windows :p
07:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
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07:43<TrueBrain>owh, I fixed non-MSVC, but that broke MSVC :D
07:43<TrueBrain>NICE
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a tuesday
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>(on monday)
07:53<TrueBrain>okay ... cmake lost the ability to find msbuild all of a sudden
07:54<TrueBrain>things on Windows work like MAGIC
08:00<@peter1138>The std::vector patch is looking a bit... conflicty :/
08:02<@peter1138>Can a GameScript take over map creation?
08:03<@peter1138>Well, not landscape but town and industry placement.
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08:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhjYA
08:13<TrueBrain>sounds to me nielsm was just being lazy :P :P :P
08:13<TrueBrain>he even merged something in that repo recently :) So yeah, he for sure has write access :D
08:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7367: Change: Include _current_company in crashlog AI config line https://git.io/fhjJa
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09:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM closed pull request #7242: Codechange: Improve performance of town name refresh on viewports https://git.io/fh5iB
09:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7242: Codechange: Improve performance of town name refresh on viewports https://git.io/fhjOp
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09:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM opened pull request #7368: Codechange: town sign update on population change https://git.io/fhj3k
09:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
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09:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM updated pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhsu0
09:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhj31
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09:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #7006: Hardware mouse cursor https://git.io/fhjsI
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09:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
09:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nikolas commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhjsG
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09:57<@peter1138>"These changes/fixes can obviously be controversial, so please discuss and ask aobut them."
09:57<@peter1138>Nooo :p
09:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhjsc
09:58<TrueBrain>clicking edit is REALLY easy, so I expect a commit in 20 seconds? :D
10:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nikolas commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhjsu
10:02<andythenorth>peter1138: livery stuff, best feature ever https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1219230#p1219230
10:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
10:03<@peter1138>Who what?
10:03<TrueBrain>peter1138: you
10:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhjsV
10:04<TrueBrain>(I assumed you were talking about people's inability to write "about" correct :P)
10:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7006: Hardware mouse cursor https://git.io/fhjso
10:04<@peter1138>TrueBrain, no, didn't even notice that.
10:04<TrueBrain>ah :D
10:04<TrueBrain>my bad :)
10:04<andythenorth>'oof'
10:05<andythenorth>is it lunchtime?
10:05<TrueBrain>jumping to the wrong conclusion there :D
10:05<TrueBrain>andythenorth: +/- 2 hours late, sure
10:05<@peter1138>andythenorth, oh I see, he's using group liveries to ... do livery changes.
10:05<andythenorth>yes!
10:05<@peter1138>TrueBrain, that's my job :D
10:05<andythenorth>it's amazing
10:05<andythenorth>best feature
10:05<andythenorth>hmm
10:05<TrueBrain>peter1138: again, my apologies :D
10:05<@peter1138>I had lunch. It was low calorie until I ate the roll, crisps, and scone.
10:05<andythenorth>I had: half a packet of cookies, some hula hoops, a tomato, and a lasagne
10:05<andythenorth>so is it lunch?
10:06<TrueBrain>why is MSBuild not on my search path :(
10:06<@peter1138>It sounds like you had it.
10:06<andythenorth>that was a snack
10:06<@peter1138>I had a lotus biscuit. Not quite half a packet.
10:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhjs1
10:06<TrueBrain>owh, that error happens because I have VS2019 installed, it says
10:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nikolas updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
10:06<TrueBrain>nooooo
10:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhjsM
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10:07<m3henry>Airport burger here
10:08<TrueBrain>HOW DID HE KNOW?!
10:08<TrueBrain>*scared now*
10:09*m3henry is wondering how many merge-fixups are needed when he gets back
10:10<@peter1138>m3henry, welllllll
10:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhjsS
10:15<TrueBrain>okay, CMake is working again \o/
10:15<TrueBrain>w00p
10:15<TrueBrain>baseset generation is also working (tnx to glx)
10:15<TrueBrain>source.list is no longer needed
10:15<TrueBrain>all in all, looking good :)
10:15<TrueBrain>biggest thing left, is regression :)
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10:16<@peter1138>Nice
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10:16*andythenorth had a creme egg
10:18<@peter1138>TrueBrain, https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commits/always-export-squirrel
10:18<@peter1138>TrueBrain, last three commits there might be interesting
10:19<TrueBrain>yippie, peter1138 is going to port those to CMake :D \o/ :)
10:19<@peter1138>TrueBrain, but i believe that should be done sseparate afterwards
10:19<LordAro>andythenorth: yes please
10:19<@peter1138>TrueBrain, yup, that's partly why i stopped developing it.
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10:19<@peter1138>I have 2 Oreo eggs. They're not quite the same.
10:20<@peter1138>Much less sweet.
10:20<TrueBrain>with CMake it becomes so much easier .. 1 script to do all platforms with
10:20<TrueBrain>instead of all this shell/vbs shit constantly :P
10:20<@peter1138>TrueBrain, hopefully
10:20<TrueBrain>but yeah, that would be really great to just generate those files on build
10:20<TrueBrain>instead of storing them in repo
10:20<TrueBrain>which is a bit iffy .. always has been :P
10:20<@peter1138>Yeah, and we keep missing these files, as glx tells us :)
10:20<TrueBrain>one of the things we also should work for, is using more folders :P
10:20<TrueBrain>'src' really has too many files
10:21<TrueBrain>silly enough, in MSVC we do use more folders
10:21<TrueBrain>but ONLY MSVC does :P
10:21<TrueBrain>(virtual folders, that is)
10:21<@peter1138>Yeah, these files should perhaps not going in src as they are genearted.
10:21<TrueBrain>I meant outside the generated files
10:21<TrueBrain>just in general
10:21<@peter1138>Also there's an odd one in there which is autogenerated, but not completely.
10:21<@peter1138>Ah
10:22<TrueBrain>source.list has categories for MSVC projects
10:22<TrueBrain>but most of the files in those categories are in 'src'
10:22<TrueBrain>so .. all non-MSVC people are punished :P
10:22<TrueBrain>possibly 'src' should only contain folders ..
10:22<@peter1138>src/newgrf/
10:24<@peter1138>All my C# stuff is one-file-per-class, and mostly namespaces-as-directories
10:24<TrueBrain>THE SANITY! STOP IT! :P
10:24<@peter1138>Maybe we should use namespaces...
10:25<@peter1138>andythenorth, I've got a kiwi fruit. Not quite a creme egg :(
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10:44<nielsm>hell-o
10:44<TrueBrain>hi :)
10:44<TrueBrain>nielsm: minor request, in markdown, please hit that enter key after every end-of-sentence marker; makes diffs a lot easier :) (minor thingy :P)
10:45<nielsm>your change afterwards reminded me :)
10:45<TrueBrain>:D
10:57<nielsm>so, does anyone remember where the Wentbound save originates from? :)
10:59<nielsm>wentbourne* ...
11:00<@peter1138><peter1138>Testing with a massive savegame I found on the forum that makes my i7 struggle.
11:00<@peter1138>Hmm
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11:00<@Alberth>moin
11:00<greeter>greetings Alberth
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11:04<LordAro>hi hi Alberth
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11:06<@Alberth>not so terribly busy here atm :)
11:07<@Alberth>or did everyone agreed on what they should do, and are busy doing that now, perhaps
11:07<andythenorth>we're all tapping our fingers waiting for nml2
11:08<andythenorth>all work stopped :)
11:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM opened pull request #7369: Add: k-d tree element checker function https://git.io/fhjZB
11:11<LordAro>Alberth: you should review some PRs to pass the time ;)
11:12<nielsm>illustration: "do not load wentbourne in a debug build" https://0x0.st/zHgy.jpg
11:14<@peter1138>Hmm, should I have the second lotus biscuit?
11:15<@peter1138>Too late.
11:16<@Alberth>andy: I did ponder on nfo linking, in particular how to do an experiment that's not too much work
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11:19<@peter1138>orudge, is there a way to search on upload filename on tt-f?
11:22<nielsm>or file size
11:22<TrueBrain>funny .. os2_m.cpp is never compiled
11:22<TrueBrain>when is the last time os2 was tested? :P
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>who knows...
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11:34<@peter1138>os2 was orudge's thing, wasn't it?
11:34<nielsm>I think so yes
11:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
11:41<TrueBrain>it used to be that coop provided the most extreme savegames :P
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11:45<nielsm>well ProZone 13 is still also a test case :)
11:47<TrueBrain>meh, SSE fails again with CMake .. setting properties on files is difficult :D
11:49<TrueBrain>set_source_files_properties only works after you added the file to an executable
11:49<TrueBrain>so .. I guess it is not marked as source file before that
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11:50<TrueBrain>'Due to historical development reasons, source file properties
11:50<TrueBrain>are scoped only in the directory where they are set.'
11:50<TrueBrain>right
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12:08<TrueBrain>glx: as a FYI, I am doing some massive work in CMake; just in case you were planning to do the same :D
12:09<+glx>I'm working on generate_widget :)
12:09<+glx>I guess you are replacing add_files with target_sources
12:09<@peter1138>Did you look at y branch?
12:09<@peter1138>*my
12:10<TrueBrain>glx: not currently, but that is a good idea yes :)
12:11<@peter1138>https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commit/7fd2cad666dfeccb81af2912b2b72e06c72380ec
12:11<@peter1138>That is about all I did on that one :p
12:11<+glx>btw I have 2 allegro files only in SOURCE_LIST2
12:11<TrueBrain>yup
12:11<TrueBrain>source.list was weird there
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12:13<+glx>https://github.com/glx22/OpenTTD/commit/7231db7b2ffc867c41afcd55d8bb27c590298cef
12:14<+glx>that's what I have for now
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12:14<+glx>and I keed the original script_window.hpp to compare my output
12:14<+glx>*keep
12:14<@peter1138>*nod*
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12:15<TrueBrain>spend 20 minutes figuring out I misspelled CFLAGS :P
12:15<Samu>I created a game with newgrfs, supermop_work
12:16*glx like configure_file() cmake function :)
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12:19<+glx>TrueBrain: I guess you noticed all the ugly stuff in src/os/* just to keep source list parsing output
12:20<+glx>mainly for headers, as source files where properly selected in source.list
12:20<+glx>but most headers were just added even when unneeded
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12:21<andythenorth>vehicle variants then?
12:22<andythenorth>Horse 2 is nearly finished, so I need a reason to delay it
12:22<nielsm>did you make the nuclear steam-electric loco yet?
12:22<TrueBrain>glx: fixed that already :)
12:23<+glx>:)
12:23<andythenorth>I did not make nuclear electric steam engine no
12:23<+glx>but my first step was perfect matching
12:24<andythenorth>nor did I add the parameter to scale intro dates by atrbitrary amount
12:24<andythenorth>Eddi said I wasn't allowed :(
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12:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7369: Add: k-d tree element checker function https://git.io/fhjcN
12:27<@peter1138>andythenorth, oh, variants... Hmm.
12:27<andythenorth>think of the liveries I could draw
12:27<@peter1138>andythenorth, multitle docks is going well, so... after.
12:27<andythenorth>I could delay Horse for years
12:27<andythenorth>I love multititle docs
12:28<andythenorth>is it a branch yet?
12:28<@peter1138>Also, should we add rgb company colours, or just add a fixed set of more (but 8bpp) colours?
12:28<andythenorth>pantones :P
12:28<andythenorth>then we can look up the real liveries
12:28<TrueBrain>glx: I now wrote something that makes sure we can set the sse flags locally, and that it still all works .. its a bit weird :P
12:28<andythenorth>for accuracy
12:28<@peter1138>RGB might be "too much choice" ?
12:28<andythenorth>it would for me
12:28<andythenorth>not very TTD
12:29<@peter1138>Although it's possible to offer fixed colours which happen to be RGB.
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12:29<andythenorth>https://thebeautyoftransport.com/2015/09/09/three-shades-of-grey-railfreight-1987-corporate-identity-roundel-design-group-uk/
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12:32<TrueBrain>glx: and now I want to look if add_files() can have a parameter to do the filter, removing this if() debt, which is horrible to read :D
12:33<andythenorth>so I've added spec_flag IND_FLAG_LONG_CARGO_TYPE_LISTS
12:33<andythenorth>now I need to read different bits, and match up the cargos to the industry cargos in the economy
12:34*andythenorth wonders, can we merge 16-cargos yet?
12:34<andythenorth>and have some nml docs? o_O
12:34<+glx>TrueBrain: it's easy to add a parameter
12:34-!-supermop_work__ [~supermopw@38.105.230.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:35<+glx>but the foreach ARGV will need some care
12:36<TrueBrain>yeah, that I now figured out how that should work :)
12:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nikolas updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
12:37<+glx>cmake language is quite powerful, but sometimes need ugly solutions
12:39<@peter1138>andythenorth, oh yeah, need to fix that bug, eh?
12:39<andythenorth>yuss :)
12:39<TrueBrain>they also have a bad case of "backwards compatibility"
12:40<@peter1138>I used to use CMake but got annoyed ;(
12:40<@peter1138>It was better than ./waf though.
12:40<TrueBrain>because, for example, with target_sources you can add sources to a target; awesome
12:40<TrueBrain>BUT
12:40<TrueBrain>you cannot create a target without at least a single source
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12:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7351: Add: Warn players that company passwords are not truly secure https://git.io/fhhrD
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12:51<TrueBrain>glx: https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/e06adaccf5302bcca3a940d77e9a6a55
12:51<TrueBrain>that works now :)
12:52<+glx>nice
12:52<TrueBrain>less nesting
12:52<TrueBrain>so video/CMakeLists.txt is somewhat more readable :P
12:52<+glx>hehe
12:52<LordAro>purely for interest purposes, i looked up the first reference to "wentbourne" in my logs:
12:53<LordAro>[21:07:08] <peter1138> Testing with a massive savegame I found on the forum that makes my i7 struggle.
12:53<TrueBrain>glx: FILTER a good word?
12:53<TrueBrain>LordAro: peter1138 said so already, yes :)
12:53<+glx>so you make a temporary list then append it depending on filter test
12:54<LordAro>TrueBrain: pfft.
12:54<TrueBrain>EXCLUDE_IF ?
12:54<TrueBrain>INCLUDE_IF ?
12:54<TrueBrain>ADD_IF ?
12:55<TrueBrain>ONLY_IF ?
12:55<+glx>ADD_IF seems good
12:55<TrueBrain>CONDITIONAL
12:55<TrueBrain>?
12:55<+glx>hmm CONDITION
12:56<+glx>like in azure :)
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13:14<TrueBrain>w00p, this seems to work :)
13:14<TrueBrain>slowly we are creeping to cleaner and cleaner code :)
13:14<nielsm>can we make Window::nested_array a std::vector or something?
13:15<andythenorth>is this like a slow controlled bonfire? :P
13:15*andythenorth likes a bonfire
13:16<TrueBrain>I like bonfires too, as long as they are not inside my house :D
13:18<TrueBrain>lets see what I broke ...
13:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
13:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7351: Add: Warn players that company passwords are not truly secure https://git.io/fhhrD
13:24<TrueBrain>ha, it works :D Sweet :)
13:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7351: Add: Warn players that company passwords are not truly secure https://git.io/fhjW8
13:26<TrueBrain>except that it doesnt ..
13:26<TrueBrain>I selected too many files for OSX :D
13:26<TrueBrain>yeah, okay, I already was a bit: huh? .. but so that is correct :P
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13:30<LordAro>nielsm: get the smallvector removal merged first :p
13:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
13:32<@Alberth>niels: not much use, it never changes after initial construction
13:32<@Alberth>TB just deleted all source code :p
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13:40<planetmaker>:P
13:40<+glx>pff stupid cmake regex failures
13:41<+glx> string sub-command REGEX, mode MATCH regex "" matched an empty string.
13:41<planetmaker>rm -rf / path/to/somewhere ?
13:41<+glx>stuff like that is allowed in any other language
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13:42<LordAro>planetmaker: rm -rf /home/$USRE/.myfiles more like
13:43<planetmaker>I left the space in the path deliberately :P
13:43<LordAro>oh i know :p
13:43<LordAro>i think Steam's was rm -rf ~/$SOMEVARIBEL
13:43<planetmaker>yeah, I think so, too
13:43<LordAro>https://github.com/valvesoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671 yup
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13:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhjWb
13:45<@Alberth>he just updated the PR ".. (and removing all other project-related code)"
13:48<LordAro>pfft, who needed that anyway?
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14:05<@peter1138>Hi :)
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14:06<@peter1138>Yeah, the std::vector PR needs to be updated and then reviewed.
14:06<@peter1138>Hi J0anJosep
14:08<J0anJosep>Hi
14:08<J0anJosep>How is the multidock PR going?
14:09<J0anJosep>I had done some work on it (multidock, ship separation and others). Maybe I can help at some point.
14:09<@peter1138>I looked at that in the past but got kinda lost.
14:10<J0anJosep>I can create a separate branch to check it.
14:11<J0anJosep>But I still have to rebase all my previous work to your catchment improvement.
14:11<@peter1138>Basically in all my previous attempts I was stumbling on how to efficiently get the docking tiles, without making them "physical" station tiles.
14:11<@peter1138>Doing that would be awkward for savegame compatibility.
14:11<J0anJosep>Why not making them physical station tiles?
14:12<@peter1138>Because there are plenty of cases where there's no space in an existing game to put a station tile there.
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14:13<J0anJosep>If you make the tile on the water the tile where ships dock, that is solved. You can then tell specifically which tracks can be used for docking, which prevents weird 45º "docking".
14:14<@peter1138>Okay that would work, but I'm not sure. It effectively force-breaks every save.
14:15<J0anJosep>Why?
14:15<@peter1138>Because existing docks get changed.
14:17<J0anJosep>You can update them. The only thing is new docks will have a visible tile and and invisible tile, insetad of two visible tiles (the one in a sloped tile and the one in the water.)
14:18<@peter1138>Yeah, that "only thing" is what I mean, it's quite a change.
14:22<J0anJosep>I also know this is quite a change, but is doable. Savegame compatibility isn't affected by it.
14:23<J0anJosep>And it also allows for docks in 1-tile wide rivers, without having to terraform the river.
14:24<@peter1138>I intend to allow all that, but just keep the existing docks as they are.
14:24<@peter1138>Well, appearance-wise, anyway.
14:26<J0anJosep>Ok. Other types of docks? How will they be?
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14:27<@peter1138>However a NewGRF defines them.
14:27<Wolf01>o/
14:29<@peter1138>I'm torn, because the method I've used works.
14:29<@peter1138>If it was guaranteed to always have the space I'd just plonk a docking tile down on the end :/
14:30<J0anJosep>What if there are three different docks with the same docking tile?
14:31<@peter1138>Yeah that's also a problem.
14:31<@peter1138>Not a problem with your method or my current method.
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14:33<J0anJosep>Yes. I chose to do it that way because I thought about separating ships as well.
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14:34<@peter1138>Not show how separating ships is relevant.
14:34<@peter1138>*sure
14:35<andythenorth>this is a weird problem to have https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=84949
14:35<J0anJosep>I also thought about doing it adding a new docking tile, but then three different competitors could share the same docking tile.
14:35<andythenorth>^^ does the OP there just not know about pressing 'escape'
14:36<m3henry>tram > bendy bus > plane > bigger plane > EMU > HST > DMU > 3rd rail EMU. I just need to take a boat and helicopter today and I'll be a transport tycoon
14:36<@peter1138>My docking tile is 'virtual'
14:37<@peter1138>It's 1 bit in the map array that says signals ships and the PF to do additional stuff.
14:38<@peter1138>The bit available on any water tile, and also station tiles (for buoys) & bridge heads (aqueducts).
14:39<J0anJosep>Ok. I was thinking if only 1 ship could be in a tile, sharing that tile could be troublesome.
14:40<@peter1138>Okay, so...
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14:41<@peter1138>Effectively we'd break backwards compatiblity by making the existing water part the docking tile.
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14:41<J0anJosep>Why?
14:41<@peter1138>But it solves lots of issues in the long run.
14:42<J0anJosep>By the way, your idea looks ok.
14:42<@peter1138>J0anJosep, backwards compatibility means it stays the same.
14:42<J0anJosep>I'm lost know. My way makes it breaks backwards compatibility?
14:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhjlF
14:43<@peter1138>Yes, because it changes the visual representation.
14:43<@peter1138>I'm not talking about technical compatibility.
14:43<andythenorth>break stuff!
14:43<@peter1138>Obviously old saves still load, but the result is differen.t
14:43<m3henry>Are there any save versions which can't be loaded by 1.9.0?
14:44<@peter1138>On the other hand, it's appealling because it solves more issues
14:44<@peter1138>m3henry, anything from a patchpack :p
14:44<@peter1138>Any save from an official version should be loadable.
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14:44<m3henry>well yeah, but you know that's not what I meant
14:44<@peter1138>If not, there's a bug.
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14:45<@peter1138>And it's not that improbable, savegame conversion is ... fun.
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14:46<m3henry>:3 At what point will maintaining complete backwards compat become too large a burden?
14:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
14:47<@peter1138>Well...
14:47<@peter1138>Usually you only need to take care about converting from the previous to the current version.
14:47<@peter1138>Everything before that is handled by the code that's already there.
14:48<@peter1138>But it can get awkward when things are shuffled around. We basically do intermediate conversions.
14:50<@peter1138>J0anJosep, with my method, when I encounter a tile marked as a docking tile, I have to check all 4 adjacent tiles.
14:51<@peter1138>J0anJosep, it's not slow but it's clearly more complex than just checking an actual station tile.
14:51<@peter1138>J0anJosep, there's also the extra effort needed to maintain the docking tile flag.
14:52<andythenorth>nielsm: to confirm my understanding....I now check cargos explicitly by label, instead of relying on position? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Cargo_sub-type_display_for_industries_.2837.29
14:52<J0anJosep>It's not that hard. I discarded that way because it was too complex at the moment I tried it (years ago, few coding experience in OpenTTD).
14:53<nielsm>andythenorth yes
14:53<nielsm>compare bits 16..23 to cargotype("COAL") etc
14:53<@peter1138>J0anJosep, simply, making it an actual station tile is superior, apart from having to wipe out the existing water part of the dock.
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14:53<andythenorth>thanks
14:54<J0anJosep>peter1138, if it is more lines of coding but the result is better, go with it.
14:54<andythenorth>think I'll need to wrap that in an economy switch
14:54<@peter1138>J0anJosep, i'm leaning to deferring to the community :p
14:54<@peter1138>J0anJosep, did you ever do anything with custom graphics or not get that far?
14:55<@peter1138>s/custom/NewGRF/
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14:57<andythenorth>hmm
14:57<andythenorth>wonder if I can just set() all the accepted cargos across all economies
14:58<J0anJosep>peter1138, I didn't go that far. But there are 13+16 free bits (even after adding dock tracks, reserved tracks, the edges and the corners of river banks, and trackdir preferences on the map array). I think it should be no problem.
14:58<@peter1138>Free bits wasn't an issue I am worried about :)
14:59<J0anJosep>Would be any added problem then? I don't think so.
14:59<@peter1138>No problem, just wondering if you'd done anything on it.
14:59<@peter1138>If not, that's good because there's no thing to throw away :)
15:00<J0anJosep>Did you do it already?
15:00<@peter1138>No, not got that far yet, but I have plans.
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15:02<andythenorth>hmm this is going to be slow to compile
15:03<@peter1138>Right, I'm leaving it for now.
15:04<@peter1138>#7364 needs attention.
15:04<@peter1138>I'm concerned about adding flags to say a callback result is invalid.
15:04*andythenorth wonders about an nml linter
15:04<andythenorth>it's tedious waiting 40s for a syntax error
15:08<@peter1138>Hmm, if I disable the group, will it still load, or throw a different error.
15:10<@peter1138>dbg: [grf] [d/firs.grf:3341] GetGroupFromGroupID(0xF6:0x89): Groupid 0x00F6 does not exist, leaving empty
15:10<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess that still works.
15:11<@peter1138>Means you can't have diagnostics.
15:11<andythenorth>do we have some problems with windows not being marked dirty?
15:11<@peter1138>andythenorth, be more specific please.
15:11<andythenorth>industry window notably, and newgrf industry debug
15:11<andythenorth>I've also got station signs missing parts
15:12<andythenorth>I'll see if it's reproducible
15:12<@peter1138>Station signs missing parts would be something for nielsm to look into.
15:12<@peter1138>I never use the newgrf debug windows so ... no idea.
15:14<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9300/dirty.png
15:14<andythenorth>also industry text failing to update / misdrawn, but harder to repro
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15:14<@peter1138>Massive font.
15:15<andythenorth>just checking my branch to see if it's something weird locally
15:16<andythenorth>I was messing around with SDL PR, and blitters
15:17<andythenorth>classic "I can't just post a savegame"
15:17<andythenorth>due to unreleased + broken newgrfs
15:19<nielsm>https://github.com/nielsmh/OpenTTD/commit/975c443c5510826add71f8561bf9901daee9bffd <-- wild ideas running wild, or something to pursue?
15:20<andythenorth>is there a TL;DR spec in bullet points? o_O
15:20<nielsm>nope
15:20<andythenorth>in principle offering GS control of zones is potentially interesting
15:20<nielsm>but read zone_type.h it should show most ideas
15:20<nielsm>yeah GS control is one goal
15:21<andythenorth>I have long wanted GS based on opening up a map
15:21<andythenorth>(removing restrictions as reward for completing goals)
15:21<nielsm>railroad tycoon 2 allowed some potentially interesting gameplay with territories granting you permissions after achieving goals/hitting marks
15:21<andythenorth>yes
15:21<andythenorth>all of that
15:22<andythenorth>the problem I forsee
15:22<andythenorth>is that realistically I will never ever write a GS
15:22<nielsm>:D
15:22<andythenorth>and not many other people do
15:22<nielsm>ow, late, need to get food before everything closes
15:22<nielsm>bbl
15:22<andythenorth>otherwise it's great :P
15:22<nielsm>there should also be tools for setting it up in scenario editor without GS :)
15:23<nielsm>so you could do dumb things like make a map where each company has an island to themselves and can't interfere
15:23<andythenorth>ha
15:23<andythenorth>I can't repro this dirty redraw bug (signs screenshot)
15:23<andythenorth>I tried things like SDL recently, maybe I had a bad configure or something
15:24*andythenorth deletes the screenshot
15:29<nielsm>hmm, I guess "bedrock mountain" might not be a great zone after all? since it's not quite exclusive with being a territory
15:30<nielsm>unless maybe restricting towns from building on it at all?
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15:56<@peter1138>Hmm
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16:12<andythenorth>now what eh?
16:12<Wolf01>Party time
16:12<@peter1138>Now what
16:13<@peter1138>Should I "break" existing savegames by turning the water-part of docks into the docking tile?>
16:14<Wolf01>Why not
16:15<@peter1138>Well I don't think we've ever done a change like that before
16:15<andythenorth>2.0.0
16:15<andythenorth>major version API change
16:15<andythenorth>save up a few other things to go with it
16:15<nielsm>if some saves may fail to load that's def. version 2.0
16:16<andythenorth>or make a savegame migration tool
16:16<andythenorth>:P
16:16<@peter1138>Jesus
16:16<@peter1138>No, savegames won't fail to load.
16:16<andythenorth>it just changes behaviour, yes?
16:16<@peter1138>And no, fuck waiting around for a mythical 2.0.0
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16:16<@peter1138>Hmm, I might simplify this PR to make it backportable.
16:16<andythenorth>5th November 2019
16:17<nielsm>so if the docking tile is blocked by something else, does the dock then disappear or what happens?
16:17<andythenorth>2.0.0, bonfire party!
16:17<TrueBrain>your place?
16:18<@peter1138>nielsm, the part of a dock that is on water will turn into effectively a water tile (but it's a station tile)
16:18<@peter1138>It can't be blocked.
16:18<andythenorth>TrueBrain: not yours?
16:18<TrueBrain>a bonfire in nov? Are you crazy?
16:18<TrueBrain>I was assuming it was indoors at your place :)
16:19<andythenorth>we are celebrating an English hero that day
16:19<andythenorth>a man who was legally killed for trying to blow up our democracy
16:19<TrueBrain>nobody cares about that :P
16:19<andythenorth>we do, much fireworks
16:19<@peter1138>Okay, I had my fish.
16:19<TrueBrain>2 months later again fireworks
16:20<@peter1138>What's for dessert?
16:20<TrueBrain>you love your fireworks
16:20<TrueBrain>peter1138: a bonfire?
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16:24<andythenorth>yes a bonfire
16:24<LordAro>smoked fish is very nice
16:24<andythenorth>flames are so entrancing
16:24<andythenorth>as is deleting stuff
16:24<nielsm>I remembered I have ice cream in the freezer
16:24<andythenorth>can't burn that
16:24<andythenorth>silly
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16:25<andythenorth>so is that nml 16-cargo PR done?
16:25<nielsm>doubt it
16:25<andythenorth>https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/tree/v4-development-track
16:25<andythenorth>FIRS exercises some of the spec there
16:26<@peter1138>What's needed?
16:26<@peter1138>Doesn't it work?
16:26<andythenorth>accept / produce props, produce block, cb 37, new flag, and new tile flag
16:26<andythenorth>everything I tried so far works now
16:26<andythenorth>'works' = nml compiles it
16:27<andythenorth>and with #7364 it works in OpenTTD as expected
16:27<andythenorth>not saying it's 'done done' and bug free, but we have .z versions for bug fixes eh?
16:27<andythenorth>nml needs to get out there, it will only find bugs by authors using it
16:28<andythenorth>is this PR up to date? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/15
16:28<m3henry>These merge conflicts are rather confusing
16:28<andythenorth>I can't keep up with who has rebased what
16:29<nielsm>I think I may have had a dream about some kind of nml2 syntax recently, and I'm not sure that is healthy
16:29<andythenorth>I've done worse
16:29<nielsm>but I don't remember any specifics
16:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out https://git.io/fhjBi
16:31<andythenorth>planetmaker: ^ I'm proposing that we approve that, ship it, and wait for bug reports
16:31<andythenorth>dunno though
16:32<andythenorth>the error handling of the old prod. cb formats is poor
16:32<andythenorth>that could be fixed in a future release
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16:32<andythenorth>nml needs to scorch the earth a bit, and just get into use
16:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type. https://git.io/fhhbB
16:37<@peter1138>Hmm...
16:38<@peter1138>So... ditch half of my multiple docks patch and go with butchering the existing docks?
16:38<@peter1138>Is that too much change, aesthetically?
16:39<andythenorth>picture?
16:39<andythenorth>what gets the most interesting result?
16:40<m3henry>Oh I get it, st->industries_near has been changed to std::vector by someone else right?
16:40<@peter1138>m3henry, it's a std::set now
16:40<m3henry>right
16:41<@peter1138>StationList as well.
16:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhjRs
16:43<andythenorth>anyone else want to approve this? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/15
16:43<andythenorth>it's my PR, so I shouldn't
16:43<@peter1138>No.
16:43<nielsm>should it be squashed or used as-is?
16:43<@peter1138>I needs to be squashed.
16:43<@peter1138>*It
16:43<@peter1138>Well, you could do a squash commit, I suppose.
16:44<andythenorth>there's a button right there in GH :P
16:44<@peter1138>We definitely don't want that kind of history in repos :p
16:45<andythenorth>certainly, I would place a small bet that nobody else is going to test that PR :)
16:45<andythenorth>we have a handful of nml industry sets, and not many of those authors can install nml from a PR
16:45<@peter1138>1 commit may be too little.
16:45<@peter1138>Should I manually squash bits?
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16:46<@peter1138>Hmm, no, I'm busy :p
16:48<andythenorth>just squash it to one, move on?
16:56<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks3.png
16:56<@peter1138>^ looks like that.
16:57<LordAro>so what's wrong with 2 tile docks?
16:58<LordAro>i've not been paying attention
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17:01<@peter1138>Nothing as such, but you can't reliably convert them to be 3 tile docks (3rd tile as an actual station tile but just water)
17:01<@peter1138>This is a 2 tile dock still, just the second part is water.
17:01<LordAro>why do we want 3 tile docks?
17:01<@peter1138>https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/43006711/51429883-75516f80-1c0b-11e9-83b0-6752626cabd8.png
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17:02<@peter1138>By making the 3rd tile an actual station tile, it simplifies a lot.
17:02<LordAro>how aren't they already effectively 3 tiles long then?
17:02<@peter1138>That image handily illustrates why the docking tile can't be converted.
17:03<@peter1138>the tile at the end is not part of the station
17:03<@peter1138>It is where the ship loads, though.
17:03<@peter1138>Basically all vehicles stop ON a station tile to do loading
17:03<@peter1138>Except ships.
17:04<@peter1138>I'm of the opinion that changing the way docks work like this is unacceptable.
17:04<@peter1138>Er, "like this" ... i specifically mean replacing the 2nd part with something that looks like water.
17:05<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks1.png
17:05<@peter1138>This is what I have working in my branch.
17:05<@peter1138>the red square is just debugging
17:06<LordAro>but that image is post-samu patch, isn't it? did that get merged?
17:06<@peter1138>Each red square is a regular water tile with a special flag in the map array that says it is a docking tile.
17:06<@peter1138>LordAro, it illustrates the current possibilities of docks.
17:07<@peter1138>samu's patch was about the ability to place docks in those locations, which is not possible, but you can terraform or place buoys afterwards.
17:07<LordAro>ah, i see
17:07<LordAro>hmm
17:07<@peter1138>But samu's patch is irrelevant here, just a handy picture :)
17:07<@peter1138>So with the "red square method"...
17:08<@peter1138>There's a bit in the map array, and if a ship/pf encounters it, it has to look at the 4 adjacent tiles to see what to do.
17:08<@peter1138>Kinda ugly, but does work. And doesn't "break" docks like in docks3.png
17:09<andythenorth>replace everything with docking tiles, build objects for the quays and stuff?
17:09<andythenorth>or rail station tiles?
17:09<andythenorth>marico and friends?
17:09<@peter1138>LordAro, and andythenorth misses the point :)
17:10*andythenorth reads again :P
17:10<@peter1138>andythenorth, and no, a dock tile has to be a dock tile, not a "newobject"
17:11<andythenorth>the tile would be a dock tile
17:11<andythenorth>hmm
17:12<andythenorth>mmmmm.....marico https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=52035
17:14<@peter1138>Yeah, well, part of this plan is use-newobjects-style graphics chain, but with station variables.
17:14<@peter1138>Might need some duplication.
17:14<@peter1138>Things like platforms etc are irrelevant, cos it's a rail station.
17:20<andythenorth>oof, so is anyone ever going to write a GS? o_O
17:20<andythenorth>it's been about 8 years :)
17:22<@peter1138>There's lots of them?
17:23<@peter1138>LordAro, so yeah. "removing" the part on water is a no go, right?
17:25<LordAro>peter1138: i wouldn't like it, anyway :p
17:25<@peter1138>I better edit landscape_grid.html then :)
17:28<@peter1138>Oh, and of course, I think it will be possible to make dock tiles which a docking tiles in the future.
17:28<@peter1138>Just not for the existing docks.
17:29<LordAro>just not necessarily for existing docks
17:29<@peter1138>Well, awkwardly, going that route means this map bit only needed for old maps. Hmmmmm...
17:29<@peter1138>Maybe I should come up with a different way.
17:30<LordAro>how awful would it be for old style docks (with no position in front of them) to use the 2nd dock tile instead?
17:30<@peter1138>Didn't we agree that it's not good?
17:30<@peter1138>Hmm
17:30<LordAro>i mean just clip through it
17:31<@peter1138>Oh.
17:31<@peter1138>ew.
17:31<LordAro>yeah
17:31<LordAro>but the number of docks like that must be very small
17:33<LordAro>the number of docks that either have had land terraformed in front of them or had a buoy placed in front of them must be vanishingly small
17:33<@peter1138>So convert to 2 tile dock if it can't be converted to a 3 tile dock?
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17:34<LordAro>i'm wildly speculating, but yeah
17:34<andythenorth>seems plausible
17:34<andythenorth>fallback
17:35<@peter1138>Hmm, catchment...
17:35<andythenorth>there's always something :P
17:36<LordAro>well station catchment has already been changed
17:36<@peter1138>Yup
17:37<@peter1138>Also oil rigs.
17:37-!-octernion [~octernion@206.223.172.50] has quit [Quit: octernion]
17:37<@peter1138>They "just work" right now.
17:38<LordAro>maybe a good time to properly remove oil rig's specialness? :p
17:38<LordAro>oil rigs'*
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17:47<nielsm>and make industries with own road stops too?
17:47<nielsm>somehow industries with own rail stations?!
17:47<LordAro>haha
17:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
17:51<andythenorth>airports!
17:51<andythenorth>where's my industry airport screenshot :P
17:51<andythenorth>I've lost it
17:52<nielsm>airport industry?
17:52<nielsm>airport owned by a third party and you rent terminals at it
17:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
17:53<andythenorth>there was a patch for arbitrary airports at industries
17:55<@peter1138>airports at industries?
17:55<@peter1138>Hm
17:56<andythenorth>it was a yexo patch
17:56<andythenorth>related to https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=45654
17:59<andythenorth>found some nfo for it :P
18:00<andythenorth>I probably have a test grf in forum pms somewhere
18:00<andythenorth>I think it was a wind turbine that a helicopter could land on
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18:02<m3henry>hopefully that was the last rebase
18:07<@peter1138>andythenorth, hmm, source no longer available.
18:07<andythenorth>oh dear :|
18:07<andythenorth>hmm, bedtime also
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18:11<@peter1138>TrueBrain, is it possible to access the old hg.openttd.org repos somehow?
18:12<@peter1138>TrueBrain, or at least long enough to make a clone of it all...
18:12<TrueBrain>sure. what patch do you have that is only there? :p
18:12<@peter1138>TrueBrain, I mean the stuff under hg.openttd.org/developers/
18:12<@peter1138>Haha
18:13<@peter1138>http://hg.openttd.org/developers/yexo/airports.hg/
18:13<@peter1138>Was looking at ^
18:13<@peter1138>Dunno what it is, never seen it :p
18:13<@peter1138>But of course the link is no more.
18:13<TrueBrain>give me a moment .. need to boot my PC and stuff
18:13<@peter1138>Oh
18:13<@peter1138>It's not that important!
18:14<TrueBrain>nah. small effort :)
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18:17<@peter1138>Oh dear.
18:17<@peter1138>I need to allow bridges above station tiles :p
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18:20<TrueBrain>right; hg .. where are they hiding ..
18:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhj0p
18:23<TrueBrain>wow .. that was 3 server-iterations ago :D
18:23<@peter1138>o_O
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18:25<TrueBrain>send you the tarball in PM
18:25<TrueBrain>that is a tarball of the server-side hg repo
18:25<TrueBrain>no clue what is in there, etc
18:25<TrueBrain>possibly the answer to world peace
18:25<@peter1138>Thanks.,
18:25<TrueBrain>I assume you can figure out how to get information out of it? :)
18:26<@peter1138>$ hg clone airports.hg airports
18:26<@peter1138>Gives me a regular tree.
18:26<TrueBrain>cool :D
18:26<@peter1138>Of course, it's hg so makes no sense, but other than that... ;)
18:26<TrueBrain>convert to git and put it on GitHub? :P
18:26<@peter1138>Heh, hg log doesn't page :D
18:26<@peter1138>Praps
18:26<TrueBrain>anyway, enjoy :D If you need any other, lemme know!
18:27<@peter1138>Thanks
18:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
18:27<TrueBrain>no problem
18:27<TrueBrain>we have backups of backups of backups of old servers, so yeah :D Happy they are useful :P
18:28<TrueBrain>"Subscriptions 683"; tnx GitHub .... nice to know .. I follow ... 600+ things ...
18:28<@peter1138>Hm, 2010.
18:28<@peter1138>Nice :)
18:29<TrueBrain>there was some dust involved :P
18:29<LordAro>TrueBrain: mine said "1000+" and then i decided to close the tab
18:29<TrueBrain>yeah ... I unwatched OpenTTD a while ago :D (well .. I watch releases)
18:29<TrueBrain>I don't understand how watching is useful for these kind of repositories
18:29<LordAro>mm, i should probably unwatch
18:29<TrueBrain>just a notification when something is created
18:29<TrueBrain>that is what I want
18:29<TrueBrain>not all things happening with it from there
18:31<@peter1138>Hmm, I think this is just the trunk branch. Odd.
18:31<TrueBrain>no branches in there?
18:31<@peter1138>Just "default"
18:32<TrueBrain>no, there are merges in there
18:33<TrueBrain>so I guess somewhere deep down is something of interest
18:33<@peter1138>LordAro, hmm... http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks4.png
18:33<@peter1138>Oh
18:33<TrueBrain>16249 for example
18:33<TrueBrain>lot of syncing :D
18:33<LordAro>peter1138: hmm
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>rebasing a branch with existing sync commits is somewhat of a pain
18:34<TrueBrain>so yeah, without an upstream attached to this .. this is difficult to see
18:34<@peter1138>Yeah, it's like a "standalone" branch :/
18:34<@peter1138>1 clone per feature? o_O
18:35<@peter1138>LordAro, is it terrible?
18:35<LordAro>peter1138: better than just clipping, i guess
18:35<LordAro>and as long as its only a possibility for the "legacy" docks
18:36<TrueBrain>the diff is pretty big
18:37<TrueBrain>peter1138: https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/found-old-stuff-for-peter1138/yexo_airports.patch.txt
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18:38<TrueBrain>I did a git clone, changed to the latest sync version, removed all the files, copied the hg clone content in there
18:38<TrueBrain>and there you have it :P
18:38<TrueBrain>lost the history, got the content :D
18:38<LordAro>that looks suspiciously like newgrf airports :o
18:38<TrueBrain>possibly because it is? :P
18:38<LordAro>maybe!
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18:39<@peter1138>Wait what, we already have newgrf_airport and newgrf_airporttiles?
18:39<TrueBrain>sorry for the patch extension; it was refusing to show .patch inline :P
18:39<@peter1138>Thanks TrueBrain
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, the only thing missing from newgrf airports is state machines
18:39<@peter1138>I...
18:40<@peter1138>I had no idea.
18:40<@peter1138>What does the current stuff do? o_O
18:40<@peter1138>Do newgrfs exist?
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18:40<TrueBrain>right, I am off to bed :) Night all!
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>OpenGFX+Airports
18:40<LordAro>opengfx+ airports is a thing
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>mostly, providing alternate graphics and rotating
18:40<LordAro>reskins and rotations
18:40<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: echo
18:40<Beerbelott>gn TrueBrain
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: Otto
18:41<@peter1138>Small Seaplane Port
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>(sorry, that was from a silly scene from a comedy movie like 30 years ago)
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: yeah, airport tiles can be on water, like industry tiles
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: there's just no check to only allow seaplanes
18:42<@peter1138>And this has been there for 9+ years...
18:42<@peter1138>WTF...
18:42<@peter1138>Oh
18:42<@peter1138>Can't place a seaplane port on water...
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>must be on the shore, afaik
18:42<@peter1138>No, it must be on land.
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>hu?
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, i never tried
18:43<@peter1138>Oh, now I'm seeing glitching station signs :/
18:44<@peter1138>Hmm, well, time for a debug build.
18:50<@peter1138>Urgh, blocked oilrig...
18:50<@peter1138>scrollto 0x393fc
18:51<@peter1138>erm
18:51<LordAro>peter1138: can't really just remove a tile from the oilrig :p
18:52<@peter1138>Oh
18:52<@peter1138>Just remembered also that multiple docks can currently 'share' the 3rd tile.
18:52<@peter1138>Different stations, different owners even.
18:52<LordAro>oho
18:53<@peter1138>And this method fails for oilrigs yes.
18:55<@peter1138>With my 'first' method none of that matters.
18:55<@peter1138>Hmm
18:56<@peter1138>And actually I can easily make all tiles around an oil-rig be docking tiles.
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18:57<@peter1138>Although that requires a bit extra effort in my "flood" routine.
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19:06<LordAro>peter1138: did you say that the fluidsynth PR didn't make any difference? Can you comment on it as such so it doesn't get merged "accidentally" ?
19:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory https://git.io/fhjEj
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19:09<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7294 bah... newgrfs solves everything
19:09<Samu>I was wondering where did this go...
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19:11<@peter1138>" actually I can easily make all tiles around an oil-rig " ahhahahaa
19:11<@peter1138>easily
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19:12<@peter1138>GFX_OILRIG_1
19:12<@peter1138>I think that's a bad test... so no.
19:12<@peter1138>OH....
19:13<@peter1138>Industry::GetByTile(tile)->neutral_station != NULL
19:14<@peter1138>lol crash
19:15<@peter1138>Hmm
19:15<@peter1138>Well... that works
19:16<Samu>is there actually a newgrf that disables rail/road crossings?
19:17<@peter1138>Probaly just one to test the feature :p
19:18<@peter1138>LordAro, my ... earlier version ... http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks5.png
19:18<@peter1138>red square inside the depot...
19:20<Samu>so, forbidding multi-engine trains is also another newgrf solves request
19:20<@peter1138>definitely.
19:20<Samu>why do you hate the base set so much
19:21<LordAro>blame Chris Sawyer
19:21<Samu>i blame newgrfs
19:22<@peter1138>OH MY GOD
19:22<@peter1138>Wentbourne in debug mode :/
19:22<LordAro>how many spf ?
19:22<@peter1138>:)
19:23<@peter1138>Hmm, this ship save is a bit slower, I think.
19:25<@peter1138>Not one of these 4,966 ships is an oil tanker.
19:26<Samu>I don't even know how to make a newgrf
19:26<@peter1138>5ms penalty :(
19:27<@peter1138>So multiple docks slows the same down again.
19:27<@peter1138>I mean, obviously it would, but...
19:27<@peter1138>same->game
19:30<@peter1138>Hmm, I know what that will be.
19:30<@peter1138>Maybe.
19:31<@peter1138>Eh, kinda.
19:34<@peter1138>Hmm, station rect needs to be updated. Boo.
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19:58<Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> " actually I can easily make all tiles around an oil-rig " ahhahahaa <-- what about other newgrf industries which have an oilrig station?
20:00<@peter1138>23:13 <@peter1138> Industry::GetByTile(tile)->neutral_station != NULL
20:00<@peter1138>^ that handles it
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>right. probably :p
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20:01<@peter1138>And yes, that test was the "easily" bit I was missing for a couple of minutes.
20:01<@peter1138>If we hadn't had Samu's original neutral stations patch, it would still be a PITA.
20:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6666: Town name list in Arabic https://git.io/fhjzT
20:15<supermop_Home>:(
20:16<Samu>damn it, i kicked somebody by mistake
20:16<Samu>plz rejoin
20:16<supermop_Home>:(
20:16<Samu>was trying to move window
20:16<Samu>the client list window kinda sucks
20:18<Samu>i clicked on it to move around, cus i couldn't click the title bar
20:18<Samu>ended up kicking supermop
20:37<Samu>refit to available cargo doesn't work
20:37<Samu>there is no available cargo though, but it would be Building Materials
20:37<Samu>why doesn't it refit to building materials then?
20:40<Samu>bad feature
20:40<Samu>not too smart
20:40<Samu>i thought it was smarter
20:45<Samu>wow tram construction feels terrible
20:47<Samu>can't build tram tracks over roads when there's a vehicle in it
20:50<Samu>and i have to build some kind of roro at stations
20:50<Samu>otherwise they get stuck
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21:11<supermop_Home>samu, refit to available cargo first requires some cargo to be there
21:11<@peter1138>chicken and egg?
21:11<supermop_Home>so its best to get it started first with one vehicle making a trip with the explicit refit
21:12<supermop_Home>its a little awkward but it dos work once you get it started
21:12<supermop_Home>tram tracks do need turning loops
21:13<Samu>a bit complex
21:13<supermop_Home>the trade off is more capacity, possibly more efficiency, and you can control the path they take
21:14<supermop_Home>but at the expense of having to build the tramway and allowing for turnarounds
21:14<supermop_Home>vs road vehicles where you can just kind of 'fire and forget'
21:21<Eddi|zuHause>i'm kinda missing a flag so some trams can go backwards
21:22<Eddi|zuHause>because realism
21:29<supermop_Home>Eddi|zuHause i'd love that
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21:38<@peter1138>Woe
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21:48<Eddi|zuHause>refit-to-cargo needs a tweak to cargodist, so it considers making a link for all possible cargos. and possibly also the "don't deliver cargo to stations unless a matching vehicle visited"
21:49<Eddi|zuHause>dunno if that would be a performance problem for cargodist, having many networks with no cargo on them
21:49<@peter1138>pr it :D
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22:29<Samu>supermop_Home, cyas tomorrow I'll load it again
22:29<supermop_Home>k
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 12 00:00:08 2019