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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-03-19

---Logopened Tue Mar 19 00:00:18 2019
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03:26<@peter1138>hi
03:27<@LordAro>moin
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03:59<@peter1138>Hi
03:59<@peter1138>Hmm
04:00<@peter1138>That pain au raisin was highly... energy dense.
04:09<andythenorth>moin
04:12<@peter1138>Does NML autocrop (or have the ability to autocrop) sprites?
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04:32<andythenorth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Realsprites
04:32<andythenorth>CROP
04:47<@peter1138>CROP (default)
04:47<@peter1138>So I need nmlc -c
04:47<@peter1138>Hmm
04:47<@peter1138>Using spritesets with different sizes in a single sprite group / layout is not possible
04:47<@peter1138>Why is that, anyway? :o
04:48<@peter1138>Ah well, it's not like it's a vehicle spriteset.
04:48<@peter1138>Good, I didn't break it :D
04:49<@peter1138>Now to add the extras.
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04:59<planetmaker>peter1138, NOCROP is an option, too (to avoid -c flag)
05:00<planetmaker>in the sprite definition
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05:07<@peter1138>Yeah I saw
05:08<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks12.png
05:08<@peter1138>Well. Cat out of the bag.
05:08<@peter1138>But...
05:11<planetmaker>whistle blower! Chase him! :P
05:12<@peter1138>Don't worry, I'm sure it's pointless :-)
05:12<@peter1138>How do loading stages work with sprite layouts? :p
05:14<planetmaker>offsets usually. iirc
05:17<@peter1138>Hmm actually it should be fine, it's just templates.
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05:19<@peter1138>It's annoying that it all has to be in one sprite set to avoid duplication.
05:20<@peter1138>Or I'm doing it wrong.
05:22<@peter1138>Hmm, can have multiple sprite sets, but they all have to be the same size. I'm sure that's a bogus restriction. Or one that applies in some cases but not here.
05:24<andythenorth>so how many ships
05:24<andythenorth>can dock at your docks12.png?
05:25<@peter1138>All of them. There's no restriction on occupancy.
05:25<andythenorth>winner
05:26<andythenorth>do they all load simultaneously?
05:26<@peter1138>improved_loading?
05:26<andythenorth>what's that weird station switch?
05:26<andythenorth>yeah that
05:26<@peter1138>wierd station switch?
05:26<andythenorth>improved_loading
05:26<@peter1138>Oh right :p
05:29<Pikka>such catbags
05:31<@LordAro>peter1138: oho
05:38<@peter1138>Random greebling to be done on jettys.
05:38<@peter1138>jetties?
05:47<Pikka>jetis
05:47<@peter1138>What ever happened to V453000?
05:47<@peter1138>Also, how's TaI32 going?
05:47<@peter1138>I like the spread-out-ness
05:48<@peter1138>And the parks with trees. Brilliant idea.
05:48<Pikka>it's going alright
05:48<andythenorth>V453000 is all factorio
05:48<andythenorth>all day
05:48<Pikka>this morning I fixed a bug where half the buildings wouldn't show up before 1920, oops
05:48<andythenorth>PipeMania!
05:49<Pikka>I'm also trying to build up the momentum to code passenger trains for civi
05:49<andythenorth>choo choo!
05:50<Pikka>extremely
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05:50<planetmaker>V453000, is employed by factorio
05:51<planetmaker>openttd gave him his job
05:51<planetmaker>or rather was the show-case for application
05:51<Pikka>I should try that
05:52<@peter1138>Crap, I need to do water-tile detection :/
05:53<planetmaker>why?
05:54<@peter1138>Because sparkling water pixels look silly on dry land :-)
05:54<planetmaker>they do... but... simply draw the ground tile and don't worry about the sprite?
05:55<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks14.png
05:55<@peter1138>Extra water pixels for choppy water.
05:55<planetmaker>ah, water pixels in the building sprite :|
05:56<@peter1138>Should be simple enough, just split off the water pixels into a separate sprite and child-sprite it.
05:56<planetmaker>remove them from the sprite. And leave ^^ to motivated NewGRF authors
05:56<@peter1138>I am apparently motivated :p
05:57<planetmaker>hehe
05:57<@peter1138>Pre-drawn graphics helps a lot.
05:57<planetmaker>they do
05:58<@peter1138>Although I fixed the templates a lot. NML can do the multiplication for you, so a nice grid layout is very simple.
05:59<@peter1138>tmpl_dock( 4, 1) instead of tmpl_dock( 330, 110) is kinda nicer.
06:02<planetmaker>for sprites nicely aligned in the graphcis file: very much so
06:02<@peter1138>I made the source file an .xcf instead of a .png
06:03<@peter1138>Means it keeps the guide markers :p
06:08<@peter1138>NewGRF buoys? :p
06:08<@peter1138>I mean, we have NewGRF waypoints :p
06:09<planetmaker>I totally would draw newgrf buoys
06:10<planetmaker>It definitely needs starbord and portside buoys. And cardinal ones
06:10<@peter1138>O
06:10<@peter1138>DOCK class BUOY? :p
06:10<@peter1138>Like waypoints are done...
06:11<@peter1138>Saves writing another new spec.
06:11<planetmaker>well...
06:11<planetmaker>buoys are waypoints, are they?
06:11<@peter1138>Exactly.
06:11<planetmaker>and waypoints are stations at which you cannot stop
06:12<@peter1138>Ok, I guess it is worth adding.
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06:34<@peter1138>https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/b2uyxv/3d_openttd_gameplay/
06:34<@peter1138>Uh oh
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06:35<Eddi|zuHause>well, all the technical challenges could be overcome, but the blocker will always be that the original graphics have no back sides
06:37<andythenorth>it's not openttd then
06:37<andythenorth>it's machinsky or whatever
06:37<andythenorth>TF
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>i also don't see how "pixel graphics" relates to "low poly". technically each pixel could be its own poly
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>TFPatch ... OpenTF
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06:54<Pikka>have we all forgotten https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY6uIxKpItM ? :)
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: or we wish we had?
07:16<andythenorth>that looks so cool!
07:18<planetmaker><Eddi|zuHause> well, all the technical challenges could be overcome, but the blocker will always be that the original graphics have no back sides <-- I find that really sad... (just draw and add them to openttd_orig.grf)
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08:10<@peter1138>Urgh.
08:29<@LordAro>planetmaker: rather easier said than done
08:41<@peter1138>I'm not sure that "no backside" is the biggest problem with going 3D...
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: it depends on how far you want to push the 3D-ness
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: but as far as the "see things behind a thing" goes, a 90° map rotation doesn't need actual 3D
08:58<@peter1138>BigClive trying to kill himself...
09:03<planetmaker>peter1138, 3d in the sense of (rotate in steps of 90°) is actually already possible - except for houses and industries.
09:03<planetmaker>and 90° rotation would go a long way, I think
09:03<@peter1138>Right but when the post mentions "low poly" they clearly mean full-on 3D graphics.
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: that would look totally hideous, if you just mapped the sprite onto a "low poly" surface
09:04<planetmaker>yes. That's not what I'd aim for. That'd be something entirely different
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>but i'm not creating a reddit account to answer that thing
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10:03<@peter1138>Why are industry tile IDs per-GRF rather than per-industry?
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>because when adding them into the specs, they didn't have a vision
10:04<@peter1138>Hmm
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10:05<@peter1138>I guess you could reuse the same parts for different industries.
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>i guess it's mostly mimicing the original game data
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10:13<@peter1138>Well, probably too late to change.
10:14<@peter1138>Not sure if it's even necessary though.
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10:19<Eddi|zuHause>don't fix it if it's not broken
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>anyone seen this 3D factorio-like thing?
10:27<@peter1138>Where's DorpsGek_II anyway?
10:27<andythenorth>it's not broken yet
10:27<andythenorth>FIRS is probably going to run out
10:27<andythenorth>but usually, when FIRS runs out
10:27<andythenorth>I do some evil workaround for a bit
10:28<andythenorth>then someone gets offended by how evil it is and fixes the spec
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>i've no quit message in my log, because he didn't say anything since my last disconnect
10:28<@peter1138>Docks are being weird, because I have not done tile-layouts for it.
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>you probably should :p
10:28<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, ah, netsplit.
10:29<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it's based on objects currently so it has x & y dimensions, but each tile is the same index.
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>no object tiles?
10:29<@peter1138>But... that won't allow holes.
10:29<@peter1138>Hmm?
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>i've never actually looked at how objects are coded
10:31<@peter1138>I may need to do tile layouts, as the original docks need that.
10:31<@peter1138>Either that or just special-case the original docks, but... urgh.
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a horrible idea
10:33<@peter1138>Yeah, well.
10:33<@LordAro>peter1138: i feel like the older issue should be reopened, given it was closed by stalebot
10:34<@peter1138>The whole GUI scaling thing is a horrible hack. I'm sorry I ever did it :(
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should have had a vision.
10:34<@peter1138>I don't even have a patch for it.
10:34<@peter1138>Yes.
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>(sorry, i made that joke like 10 minutes ago)
10:34<@peter1138>Actually I sort of have a patch.
10:35<@peter1138>I made a patch that also scales all the padding.
10:35<@peter1138>You end up with double-thickness lines.
10:35<@peter1138>It looks like the old double-size on Windows mode we used to have.
10:35<@peter1138>Nice actually but a bit... brutal
10:36<@peter1138>Many windows are too narrow when the scale is increased.
10:37<@peter1138>It's likely we should have a fractional gui scale, (and ditch the ill-advised separate font and gui scales)
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10:40<@peter1138>Also, make everything use that OpenGL renderer.
10:40<@peter1138>LordAro, feel free, andythenorth/stalebot will just close it again though :p
10:41<@peter1138>Hmm, but I think the OpenGL stuff was still just pixel buffers. Hmm.
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11:06<Eddi|zuHause>there's different approaches to OpenGL
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>iirc there was some problem with textures needing power-of-two dimensions, but that should be possible by just extending the sprites with transparent pixels
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11:16<andythenorth>peter1138: wat?
11:16<andythenorth>the GUI scaling thing is grat
11:16<andythenorth>great *
11:16<nielsm>Eddi|zuHause: pretty sure power-of-two textures stopped being a problem 20 years ago
11:16<nielsm>except for maybe on some mobile graphics units
11:19<@LordAro>andythenorth: sounds like you've got an issue to reopen then
11:20*andythenorth looks
11:20<andythenorth>nope
11:20<andythenorth>2x, job done
11:20<andythenorth>all finished, moving on
11:20<andythenorth>the only problem is a few windows that don't fit and can't be resized
11:24<andythenorth>bbl
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12:13<andythenorth>such cats
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12:18<@LordAro>nah, ponies
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13:35<nielsm>anyone going to be playing Satisfactory?
13:36<@peter1138>Never heard of it.
13:41<planetmaker>satisfactory... factorio in 3D presumably. I'll pass
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14:09<@peter1138>Hmm, TaI32 would be good with some non-placeholder graphics ;)
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14:22<@peter1138>Hmm.
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14:30<andythenorth>so is TrueBrain away?
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14:48<@peter1138>Hmm, so the original dock has 6 tiles
14:49<@peter1138>But we don't really want 6 tiles to appear in the list.
14:49<andythenorth>not really
14:50<@peter1138>I dunno how to cope with this :/
14:51<@LordAro>define a preview tile?
14:51<@LordAro>like airports
14:51<@peter1138>That's way beyond the problem level :p
14:53<@LordAro>you're the one who said you didn't know how to deal with it :p
14:53<@LordAro>i merely offered a solution
14:53<@peter1138>A solution to a different problem.
14:57<@LordAro>oh, a different list?
14:57<@peter1138>Not really.
14:57<@peter1138>But a preview tile would end up with 6 copies of the preview tile...
14:57<@LordAro>in which case i'm confused as to what you're stuck on
14:58<andythenorth>Twitch!!
14:58<@peter1138>I'm confused as to what I'm stuck on.
14:58<@LordAro>nah, pub
14:58<@peter1138>:>
14:59<@peter1138>Okay so with docks, I have done it like objects. 1 dock spec == 1 ID
15:00<@peter1138>Different orientations are done by varaction tests.
15:01<@peter1138>Original dock is 6 different IDs, 1 for each slope, and 2 for the two water parts
15:01<@peter1138>So... the UI needs some 'magic' to treat the original dock a just 1 ID, even though it's actually 6.
15:02<@peter1138>Cos you don't currently select the orientation you want, and I don't want to have to do that, because it's not necessary for newgrf docks either.
15:04<andythenorth>remove original dock?
15:04<@peter1138>No, that breaks backwards compatibility.
15:14<@peter1138>uhhh
15:15<@peter1138>oh
15:17<@peter1138>This is pro-develoloping.
15:17<@peter1138>I dunno what to do on these corner-cases.
15:18<@peter1138>Literally corner-cases O_o
15:19<@peter1138>Hm
15:19<andythenorth>YouTube recommended me this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOUa68E4_kI
15:20<@peter1138>Go to all that effort but don't fix obvious things
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>why shouldn't newgrf docks get an orientation?
15:25<@peter1138>They have an orientation, but I don't want to have to specify that in the UI.
15:25<@peter1138>But
15:26<@peter1138>You can get that information from the slope.
15:26<@peter1138>But of course we also want to support non-slope docks. Hmm.
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>what about docks on flat land?
15:30<@peter1138>Yeah
15:30<@peter1138>Well if it's just 1 tile then it doesn't matter either :D
15:30<@peter1138>Ok, original docks -- take orientation from the slope
15:31<@peter1138>newgrf docks, take orientation from parameter.
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15:33<Eddi|zuHause>Gui could do "orientation: 1, 2, 3, 4, auto" similar to rail construction?
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>then also newgrf docks could benefit from both ways
15:34<frosch123>in the past people wanted to build docks in corners, but the auto-orientation failed them
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15:35<frosch123>though actually docks could be along the coast, instead of into the sea
15:36<frosch123>would also work for andy's flat river pony docks
15:39<andythenorth>peter1138 has screenshots
15:39<andythenorth>even a branch
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15:43*andythenorth poking at updating OpenTTD website words
15:47<andythenorth>is LordAro in the pub?
15:47<andythenorth>:P
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>where else would he be?
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>considering his last line was "nah, pub"
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15:56<andythenorth>so what happened to industry-plants-objects frosch123? :D
15:57<frosch123>it's as advanced as the titlegame competition :p
15:57<@LordAro>andythenorth: yup, pub
15:58<andythenorth>that is not an ideal place to prune a wiki :P
15:58<andythenorth>or is it? o_O
16:03<@peter1138>Well
16:03<@peter1138>I was conned.
16:04<@peter1138>frosch123, along the coast, you say? http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks12.png
16:05<@peter1138>Or indeed, not coast... http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/docks14.png
16:07<frosch123>yes like that :)
16:07<Wolf01>Wonderful
16:08<andythenorth>best feature ever
16:08<frosch123>the second screenshot suggests there should be a "water continuation" variable, so there can be proper water worders on the sprites
16:09<andythenorth>there's an old feature request for that, for George's hotel
16:09<@peter1138>water worders?
16:10<frosch123>borders
16:10<@peter1138>Oh
16:10<@peter1138>I can test for it but yeah, currently it's just baked into the sprite.
16:10<frosch123>for the waves and stuff
16:10<@peter1138>This is done with NML as well, which surprised me.
16:11<@peter1138>It went from "I need to make a test grf" to "Hmm, need to patch NML" to "Hmm, this is working really well, how much can I cram into this test NewGRF" quite quickly
16:11<andythenorth>winner
16:12<@peter1138>It is based on newgrf objects though, not newgrf (rail) stations.
16:12<@peter1138>airporttiles is already the precedent for doing it differently.
16:13<andythenorth>so I want to fix this page https://wiki.openttd.org/Development
16:13<@peter1138>It is a wiki
16:14<+glx>click the edit button ?
16:14<@peter1138>I think andythenorth would rather click the delete button.
16:14<frosch123>i think andy discovered that "delete" is a previledged operation
16:14<frosch123>:p
16:15<+glx>he has the access
16:15<frosch123>oh, it links to the cia page
16:15<frosch123>that service that went offline over night because of a disk crash
16:15<frosch123>and noone having a copy of the software
16:16<@DorpsGek>the reason I exists
16:16<frosch123>your mom?
16:16<TrueBrain>pretty sure DorpsGek has no mom :P
16:18<SpComb>oh man, CIA - from the time that people still used trac
16:18<TrueBrain>owh, trac, from the time I had horrible nightmares from how shitty software can be
16:18<TrueBrain>wait, did I say that out loud? :P
16:18<+glx>I remember a trac update ended with a new bug tracker :)
16:19<@peter1138>TrueBrain, but where's DorpsGek_II? :)
16:19<TrueBrain>did he laeve?
16:19<TrueBrain>when did that happen?
16:19<frosch123>@seen dorpsgek_ii
16:19<@DorpsGek>frosch123: dorpsgek_ii was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 34 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul https://git.io/fjvNa
16:19<TrueBrain>hmm .. how to reset that again .. eeuuuuhhhhh
16:19<@LordAro>it got netsplitted
16:22<TrueBrain>DorpsGek_ii is back
16:22<TrueBrain>he will rejoin when he has anything useful to say
16:26<andythenorth>TrueBrain: do you want to talk about publishing artefacts from compiles? :P
16:26<TrueBrain>no
16:26<andythenorth>figures
16:26<TrueBrain>that that solve your issue?
16:26<andythenorth>for now yes
16:26<TrueBrain>w00p!
16:26<andythenorth>I don't have to explain it to you, which is nice
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16:26<andythenorth>effort avoided :P
16:27<TrueBrain>exactly :D
16:27<TrueBrain>everyone happy :P
16:27<andythenorth>shall we just turn this into a sledging channel for a bit?
16:27<TrueBrain>sledging?
16:27<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sledging_(cricket)
16:27<TrueBrain>isn't that the default for this channel?
16:27<andythenorth>not really no
16:27<andythenorth>we're mostly quite polite
16:28<andythenorth>except for TrueBrain
16:28<TrueBrain>I was about to comment .. I guess it is only polite when I am not here ..
16:28<andythenorth>we swear too much now
16:28<andythenorth>I have to hide irc from my kids
16:28<TrueBrain>fuck no?
16:28<TrueBrain>really? shit dude ..
16:29<andythenorth>no shit
16:29<andythenorth>it's like having 4 copies of V453000 in the channel
16:29<andythenorth>V453000 never responds to highlights any more
16:29<andythenorth>probably on Slack
16:29<TrueBrain>like sane people :P
16:29<TrueBrain>(OWH SNAP)
16:30<andythenorth>so have you deleted that wiki page yet?
16:30<TrueBrain>Sledging? I considered it
16:30<TrueBrain>voted against it
16:30<andythenorth>also do we have money?
16:31<TrueBrain>depends .. did you build a coal train
16:31<andythenorth>not exactly
16:31<andythenorth>I am going to, in some kind of order
16:31<TrueBrain>what do you want to waste money on?
16:31<andythenorth>- update the current website words
16:31<andythenorth>- make a mockup for a new website in html
16:32<andythenorth>- propose paying a designer on 99 Designs or another freelancer exploitation site https://99designs.co.uk/
16:32<andythenorth>cos we ain't designers
16:32<TrueBrain>possibly a few players are
16:33<andythenorth>possibly
16:34<andythenorth>supermop_work:
16:34<andythenorth>TrueBrain but yeah, also I wanted to show previews of website rewrites
16:35<andythenorth>I guess I could get an ftp server :P
16:35<andythenorth>or put them in a weird GH Pages branch manually
16:35<TrueBrain>GH Pages should be able to produce the website too, I guess
16:35<TrueBrain>it is Jekyll after all
16:35<andythenorth>lolz
16:35<andythenorth>https://andythenorth.github.io/website/
16:35<TrueBrain>but I am way too tired to be helpful this night
16:35<andythenorth>^ enjoy :)
16:35<TrueBrain>so any serious discussion will be prompted by fart noises
16:35<andythenorth>we broke all the paths of course :)
16:36<andythenorth>because $us
16:36<andythenorth>much laughter
16:36<TrueBrain>that site is easily fixed, just add /website/ to the baseURL and commit
16:36<andythenorth>well yes
16:36<TrueBrain>no, that is fully expected .. if you dont put it in the root folder, it will fail
16:36<TrueBrain>Jekyll will always do that, basically
16:36<andythenorth>yes
16:37<andythenorth>it was just quite lolz
16:37<TrueBrain>so fix the basepath in your config, and it works, not?
16:37<andythenorth>well it does, but you'll reject my PR :P
16:37<TrueBrain>so make it a separate commit, and dont put that in the PR
16:37<TrueBrain>learn how to do git, ffs :P
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16:38<andythenorth>is that a fart noise?
16:38<TrueBrain>you can smell it here too
16:38-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@84.117.88.126] has quit []
16:39<andythenorth>somewhat
16:40<andythenorth>anyway I make new pages
16:40<andythenorth>you can all read the source html :P
16:40<TrueBrain>write new pages in md :P
16:42<andythenorth>considered it
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16:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7384: Add: Display tooltips on industry chains window even when "Show toolt… https://git.io/fjfm0
16:42<+glx>wb DorpsGek_II
16:42<TrueBrain>you can't talk via DorpsGek_II glx :P
16:43<andythenorth>oh I found the most evil thing so far today
16:43<TrueBrain>my farts?
16:43<+glx>no need, I have DorpsGek for that ;)
16:43<andythenorth>the wiki has both wiki markup
16:43<andythenorth>and arbitrary html
16:43<andythenorth>IF IT CAN DO HTML
16:43<andythenorth>WTF IS THE WIKI MARKUP FOR?
16:43<TrueBrain>because .. THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE
16:43<andythenorth>*every* markup language is worse at html than html
16:43<TrueBrain>HTML should be killed with fire
16:43<TrueBrain>and be burned
16:44<andythenorth>nothing makes me more enraged
16:44<+glx>just use xml ;)
16:44<TrueBrain>nothing?
16:44<TrueBrain>glx just triggered me :P
16:44<andythenorth>nothing does make quite angry
16:44<TrueBrain>XML is human readable, I read
16:44<TrueBrain>and machine can easily parse it, I read
16:44<TrueBrain>I also read a lot of lies
16:44<andythenorth>but hiding html behind fake markup :x
16:44<TrueBrain>andythenorth: HTML is just hiding behind machine code
16:44<Wolf01>Brainfuck is more readable than xml
16:44<andythenorth>in what way is this a frigging href?
16:44<andythenorth>You can [https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD find the sourcecode on GitHub]
16:45<+glx>html looks like xml but some construct are not valid xml IIRC
16:45<andythenorth>^^ that's a href, wtf?
16:45<andythenorth>and that's supposed to be easy?
16:45<andythenorth>"oh andythenorth it's for non-technical people, you don't understand"
16:45<TrueBrain>its better than <href> shit :P
16:45<andythenorth>I understand I can't fucking understand it
16:45<+glx>it's easier than typing all the <a> tag
16:45<andythenorth>I hate all these stupid lanuages
16:45<TrueBrain>I refuse to write HTML these days
16:45<TrueBrain>fuck that shit
16:45<TrueBrain>give me Markdown
16:46<andythenorth>I refuse to write NML
16:46<TrueBrain>we both have refusals
16:46<TrueBrain>shall we start a club, so we can talk about it?
16:47<andythenorth>oh I broke this page :( https://wiki.openttd.org/Development
16:47<TrueBrain>yes you did
16:47<andythenorth>FFS
16:47<TrueBrain>tell LordAro to fix it :P
16:47<Wolf01>I refuse to write
16:47<Wolf01>Oh wait...
16:47<andythenorth>all I did was edit the stupid wiki language
16:47<andythenorth>and now the page is broken?
16:47<andythenorth>I've rolled it back
16:47<TrueBrain>just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it the fault of the wiki :P
16:48<andythenorth>wait, what, it's rolled back to an old rev?
16:48<andythenorth>ok fixed
16:48<Eddi|zuHause><Wolf01> Brainfuck is more readable than xml <-- can you write a brainfuck program that is also valid xml?
16:48<andythenorth>I am not touching that page again
16:48<TrueBrain>lies
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, a brainfuck program that does something non-trivial
16:49<andythenorth>fuck it, people can continue using svn and patches and flyspray
16:49<TrueBrain>whoho!
16:49<TrueBrain>subversion is back!
16:49<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause: maybe
16:53<@peter1138>Hmm, what's a "view" in newobject speak?
16:56<@peter1138>Hmm
16:56<TrueBrain>whoho, DigitalOcean LoadBalancers support PROXY protocol; sadly, this does mean I have to change some of the main infrastructure .. as that seriously helps
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16:57<TrueBrain>but .. how to avoid downtime :P
16:57<TrueBrain>something to toy with over the weekend :D
16:57<TrueBrain>and a mail from the CIA .. I have to pay them 10k to not get arrested
16:58<+glx>oh I received it too, not read yet
16:58<TrueBrain>its amazing
16:58<TrueBrain>are people really buying this stuff .. I mean ...
16:58<TrueBrain>like someone would openly admit to be willing to commit fraud ...
16:59<TrueBrain>well .. now saying that .. I read some tweets from a certain president which makes the same kind of suggestions as this mail
16:59<TrueBrain>so I guess this is fair
16:59<TrueBrain>let me wire the money :P
17:02<TrueBrain>hmm .. "Note that in order to use Proxy Protocol with DigitalOcean Kubernetes, you will need to create a new cluster, or request a master node recycle for your existing cluster by contacting support."
17:02<TrueBrain>so that takes even more effort ..
17:03<milek7>xhtml was/is better
17:04<milek7>at least tag closing works as expected, instead of html mix of empty and non-empty tags
17:05<milek7>'master node recycle' sounds destructive ;P
17:05<TrueBrain>it is not as bad as it sounds, assuming they do it in a clever way
17:06<TrueBrain>normally you run the etcd on 3 nodes, so you can cycle one by one, no fuzz
17:06<TrueBrain>but .. no clue how DO solved it, honestly
17:06<TrueBrain>(you cannot see the master nodes)
17:06<TrueBrain>setting up a new cluster is as easy as sending such mail, so meh
17:08<TrueBrain>okay, I need to reconfigure the nginx-ingress, and switch the LB .. that should be painless .. do I dare trying this directly on production ...
17:08<TrueBrain>not tonight :D
17:08<@peter1138>nielsm, found the k-d tree bugs yet? :)
17:09<+glx>not something to try when sleep time is near :)
17:10<@peter1138>Ok, so "view" is not necessarily orientation. Hmm.
17:10<TrueBrain>owh, right, we were going to remove DOS support, weren't we ... I forgot ..
17:12<andythenorth>delte
17:12<@LordAro>exterminate
17:12<andythenorth>TrueBrain: DOS isn't officially supported :D https://www.openttd.org/about.html
17:13<andythenorth>the official website officially says so
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17:13<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Operating_system#Devices_.28unsupported.29
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17:15<+glx>hmm we should probably remove pre-winXP from the list
17:15<andythenorth>oh but the official README says DOS is officially supported https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/README.md#30-supported-platforms
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17:17<@peter1138>SDL or Allegro on Windows, woo.
17:21<andythenorth>glx: just remove it :)
17:21<andythenorth>which list though, wiki, website, or README?
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>all the lists
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>autogenerate the lists
17:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7388: Remove: DOS support https://git.io/fjfYL
17:26<TrueBrain>I hope my lengthy explanation why we remove it is appreciated :D
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17:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7332: Performance in DOS is terrible https://git.io/fjfYt
17:28<TrueBrain>next commit, remove #ifdef ENABLE_NETWORK? :D
17:28<TrueBrain>383 instances :o
17:29<orudge>Hmm, I keep ENABLE_NETWORK happily disabled in my hacked up version of OpenTTD that is used to read stuff from saved games
17:29<TrueBrain>hmm, we also have _network_available
17:29<orudge>I suppose it doesn't hurt to have it enabled, just means extra code
17:29<TrueBrain>orudge: exactly
17:30<TrueBrain>it breaks too often, for no real benefit
17:31<TrueBrain>right, will remove ENABLE_NETWORK tomorrow .. seems just a lot of lines to remove, I can do that :)
17:36<TrueBrain>orudge: do you still support OS/2, and does it still work?
17:36<orudge>TrueBrain: I was wondering when that was going to come up :D
17:37<TrueBrain>it has many times, you just never respond :P
17:37<@peter1138>Hmm, explicit orientation makes no sense either :(
17:37<orudge>I personally haven't tried to build it lately, but Paul Smedley who runs the OS/2 ports site last built it a couple of years ago
17:38<orudge>It'll probably still work
17:38<orudge>The newest gcc etc is available for OS/2
17:38<TrueBrain>"couple of years ago".. sounds promising :D
17:38<orudge>so I'd suggest against getting rid of it if possible
17:38<orudge>well, 2014 is the latest build I see there
17:38<orudge>I can try to fire up my old OS/2 VM one day...
17:38<TrueBrain>only if you want to try to build it soon? :D
17:38<TrueBrain>a non-maintained version is no version :D
17:38<orudge>Indeed, I think I did at some point in the past year or so
17:39<TrueBrain>tnx; let me know how it goes :)
17:42<andythenorth>who did the Risc OS port ? :P
17:42*andythenorth tried to get a Risc OS emulator working at the weekend
17:44<orudge>It seems somebody has ported SDL2 to OS/2, so that's a good sign
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17:53<@peter1138>Emulator? Don't you have a real one? :D
17:56<andythenorth>my brother sold it
17:56<andythenorth>I said he could
17:56<andythenorth>then regret
18:04<@peter1138>Selecting orientation is not pleasing.
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18:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7388: Remove: DOS support https://git.io/fjfYN
18:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7332: Performance in DOS is terrible https://git.io/fhpex
18:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7388: Remove: DOS support https://git.io/fjfYL
18:26<Supercheese>>DOS
18:26<Supercheese>wew
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18:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjfYj
18:28<@LordAro>rip DOS
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18:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjfOL
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18:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg
18:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
18:50<@peter1138>Ooh, yes, I ought to fix docks.
18:50<@peter1138>Uses the same feature as NRT :p
18:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjfOW
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20:07<@peter1138>peeeeka
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20:14<drac_boy>hi there
20:15<drac_boy>had to ask but is it part of the grf or rather the graphic engine that determines what kind of transparency to use? (especially as how some grf trees don't seem to transparent out so well compared to the vanilla ones)
20:25<drac_boy>sorry have to afk now..migth recheck another day tho
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20:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7384: Add: Display tooltips on industry chains window even when "Show toolt… https://git.io/fjf3x
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22:15<Samu>there is no invalid order event for AIs?
22:16<Samu>how could it be forgotten?
22:16<@peter1138>Make one
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22:16<Samu>ok
22:16<Samu>because I actually need it
22:16<Samu>:p
22:17<Samu>my ai is still having invalid orders
22:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7389: Fix tooltips not appearing in some instances. https://git.io/fjfG8
22:46<@peter1138>Order::MakeDummy, I guess.
22:50<Pikka>check AIOrder::IsVoidOrder ?
22:50<Pikka>which AI, Samu?
22:50<Samu>ludiai afterfix
22:51<Samu>some of my vehicles get invalid orders in the order list
22:51<Samu>I'm figuring out how to reproduce it
22:51<Samu>so far, not much success
22:52<Samu>wanna see what causes it
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22:52<@peter1138>Players get news items about void orders.
22:52<@peter1138>Do AIs not get news items?
22:53<Pikka>they get events
22:53<Pikka>including ET_VEHICLE_LOST, but I don't know if that's triggered by void orders
22:53<Samu>nop
22:54<Samu>they were service non-stop at a specified depot
22:54<Samu>but they turn invalid somehow
22:54<Pikka>only if the depot gets removed, I'd have thought?
22:54<Samu>that's the strange part
22:54<@peter1138>Yeah, explicit event for vehicle lost.
22:54<@peter1138>Seems AIs don't just get news events.
22:55<Samu>I track the stations and depots of a route
22:55<Samu>the route still exists, I still see the depot, however no vehicle is going to it
22:56<Samu>it turned invalid, something is causing it to become invalid
22:57<Samu>it also seems to be very rare
22:58<Samu>started AI in 1935, and only in 1971 I noticed it
22:58<Samu>I compare the order flags, and there's a mismatch
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23:18<Samu>damn it, i can't reproduce this at all
23:18<Samu>it's 1972 now, still didn't happen
23:41<Samu>happened in 1978
23:44<Samu>I dont understand what happened
23:44<Samu>Fundhattan Road Vehicle Depot
23:44<Samu>it isn't removed
23:44<Samu>the orders simply turned invalid
23:45<Samu>I was eyeing it
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---Logclosed Wed Mar 20 00:00:20 2019