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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-03-22

---Logopened Fri Mar 22 00:00:22 2019
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00:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly https://git.io/fjfhC
00:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly https://git.io/fjfjA
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03:08<andythenorth>moin
03:15<@peter1138>Isn't it
03:24*LordAro wonders when Eddi|zuHause sleeps
03:26<Pikka>thursday
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04:25<@peter1138>Hm.
04:37<planetmaker>moin
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06:18<Pikka>boin
06:26<andythenorth>pikka bob
06:27<Pikka>oui
06:28<andythenorth>such UKRS 99?
06:28<andythenorth>or civil pax?
06:29<Pikka>one of those
06:29<Pikka>or something else
06:29<andythenorth>I should FIRS
06:29<andythenorth>not now though
06:30<Pikka>yes
06:30<Pikka>later
07:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] planetmaker updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
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07:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>(sorry for sniping like this)
07:34<planetmaker>I actually disagree that baseset and tools should be under NewGRF. I made the choice deliberately
07:34<planetmaker>should we start an edit-war?
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>yes. definitely
07:34<@peter1138>OpenGFX isn't a NewGRF.
07:35<planetmaker>with tools it can be argued that most (all?) are newgrf-related
07:35<@peter1138>Is OpenGFX built with nml?
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>anyway. i was advised to start each sentence on a new line, so diffs would be easier to read
07:35<planetmaker>but basesets are different
07:35<andythenorth>baseset is baseset
07:35<planetmaker>yes, OpenGFX is written in NML
07:35<andythenorth>it's an essential dependency
07:35<andythenorth>it's incidental that it's implemented as newgrf
07:36<planetmaker>it's a collection of grf and NewGRF.
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: ok, but then scrap the "NewGRF" entry, and call "Tools" "NewGRF Tools"?
07:36<andythenorth>the newgrf header should contain: spec + toolchain entries
07:36<planetmaker>there's catcodec which is a sound tool
07:36<andythenorth>ultimately, it's just a blog post
07:36<andythenorth>so ultimately it's blah blah and classic bikeshedding rabbit hole
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: now you're splitting hairs
07:37<planetmaker>nml is a tool for basesets and newgrfs. nforenum, grfcodec as well. and musa a tool for all kind of content
07:37<andythenorth>if I wrote the post, I'd put 'Content APIs' and dump everything under that, which would confuse everyone
07:37<andythenorth>but I would be correct
07:37<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, not quite. But this distinction drove my choice for separate topic
07:37<planetmaker>hehe
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: then it's "## mod support" and "### GRF Tools"
07:38<andythenorth>everything about no coherent vision, GS vs NewGRF etc is because of historical evolution of content APIs
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>(wording needs more work)
07:38<planetmaker>or just one heading: NewGRFs, baseset & Tools
07:39<andythenorth>my rationale is that basesets are content
07:39<andythenorth>not content APIs
07:39<andythenorth>so split them
07:39<andythenorth>but eh, peak bikeshedding achieved
07:39<planetmaker>yellow with violet dots please
07:39<andythenorth>introduce joke: "how many people does it take to write a dev blog post"
07:40<andythenorth>dunno what the punchline is
07:40<andythenorth>probably "we don't know, it's not finished yet"
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: imho, the structure with both things being subgroups of one category is better. just need to find a correct name for the category
07:42<planetmaker>I can well imagine to see a GS and AI section appearing some time as well
07:42<planetmaker>or scripts
07:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
07:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fjJT1
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07:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] planetmaker commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fjJT9
08:01<andythenorth>content API
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: imho discussing whether to call it the "NewGRF" section is on a similar level as convincing people to not say "Holland" or "America"
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i mean, we could call it the Bananas section, but people would confuse that with the hosting service
08:13<andythenorth>"Content APIs"
08:13<andythenorth>:P
08:13<andythenorth>mostly because our own thinking is distorted by historical facts
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>yo, check your privilege?
08:14<andythenorth>is that a missed reference? :P
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>probably
08:15<andythenorth>I did actually check my privilege once
08:15<andythenorth>I am ahead, but not the most ahead
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>there's always someone further ahead
08:21<andythenorth>someone must be the most ahead
08:21<andythenorth>probably Berlusconi?
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>no, because it's non-transitive
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>it's like nobody is ever at the top of the food chain
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>because it's not a chain
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>that's a simplification
08:24<planetmaker>I would never have called a script "NewGRF". And just because some or many people use words incorrectly, it doesn't mean we have to use bad wording, too
08:26<@LordAro>"mods"
08:26<planetmaker>I'd have no problem with using that term
08:26<planetmaker>Mods & Tools
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i already suggested going in that direction.
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>however, we should come up with a generic-enough term to put it into the template for every future blog post
08:30<planetmaker>are basesets mods? :P
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
08:30<planetmaker>they are rather the baseline...
08:31<planetmaker>hence the name
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>they're still mods
08:31<planetmaker>no, they don't modify anything
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, they do
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>you can modify them
08:31<planetmaker>you mean they make an uncomplete game complete?
08:31<@peter1138>They don't... modify the gameplay though.
08:32<@peter1138>"Just" graphics.
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>no, they modify how the game looks
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>that is still modify
08:32<planetmaker>without baseset the game is not a game. Just broken code
08:32<@peter1138>Should I enter the Euromillions before I'm not allowed to? :p
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but there are multiple basesets
08:32<planetmaker>so?
08:33<@peter1138>Mostly... not very pretty.
08:33<andythenorth>eh ok, so I was drafting new website words this week
08:33<andythenorth>"mods" "add-ons" "packs" "content" "dlc" "customisations" ??
08:33<@peter1138>Funny how you give tools to make it super gorgeous, and they come up with... aBase
08:33<planetmaker>graphics, sounds, scripts & tools
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: doesn't sound very generic
08:34<andythenorth>most games have mods or packs or DLC
08:34<@peter1138>Still waiting for pikkabase
08:34<andythenorth>'most' => the ones I see my kids playing :P
08:34<andythenorth>not scientific most
08:34<@peter1138>But I guess that was the one that was the attempted kickstarter.
08:34<andythenorth>mods tend to change behaviour
08:34<andythenorth>packs tend to be graphics skins etc
08:35<andythenorth>DLC tends to be ££$$€€
08:35<andythenorth>but there are no fixed rules
08:35<@peter1138>So basesets are packs, and NewGRFs are mods.
08:35<andythenorth>["fuck knows" emoji]
08:35<andythenorth>my draft website title for all this crap is "Extend"
08:35<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, anything missing in the list of "graphics, sounds, scripts & tools"?
08:35<planetmaker>that it is not generic enough?
08:36<@peter1138>Extensions implies stuff that would need source code changes.
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the problem is that it's a list.
08:36<andythenorth>I wrote "Extend the base game with downloadable content, including new vehicles, industries, stations, houses, AIs, heightmaps, scenarios, gamescripts and more"
08:36<planetmaker>it's not a problem if it's comprehensive
08:36<andythenorth>it's horrible
08:36<andythenorth>but it's all horrible anyway
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it should be more concise
08:36*andythenorth is solving a different related problem, if that's not obvious
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: for a generic section headline
08:37<andythenorth>the website is getting an update :P
08:37<planetmaker>it's quite concise. Much more concise and descriptive than "NewGRFs" or "Mods"
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>i disagree.
08:37<andythenorth>for the core game, I wrote ""Addictive retro gaming. Free to play always. Highly-rated open source game. Single player. Online multiplayer. Sandbox or competitive."
08:38<andythenorth>for Develop I wrote "Contribute to OpenTTD. Join us on irc and GitHub. Ideal for experienced who want a hobby project, and for students in computer science and similar studies who want to improve skills on a successful real-world project"
08:38<andythenorth>meh
08:38<@peter1138>FOR EXPERIENCED
08:38<planetmaker>hm
08:39<andythenorth>PROGRAMMERS
08:39<andythenorth>no
08:39<planetmaker>I'd not exclude people who just want to fix their personal scratch :)
08:39<andythenorth>EXPERIENCED PETER'S
08:39<andythenorth>that's what I meant
08:39<andythenorth>maybe without '
08:39<Pikka>maybe
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's not words i would put on a website
08:40<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it's a free opportunity for you to do better :)
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you're projecting too much of your own mindset onto the random reader of the website
08:41<andythenorth>yes, I am a human writing words
08:41<andythenorth>and acceleration in Earth's gravitational field is about 9.8m/s
08:41<andythenorth>some things are just what they are
08:41<andythenorth>propose better? :P
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: for some unforseen reason it's much easier to find someone else's words bad than to come up with better words yourself
08:41<andythenorth>isn't it :P
08:43<andythenorth>just write the most lolz thing
08:45<planetmaker>Contribute to OpenTTD. The project is run by volunteers from all kind of backgrounds. Join us on irc and Github and have a look how you can contribute
08:45<planetmaker>and a link to updated wiki page(s)?
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>is that an oxymoron? :p
08:48<planetmaker>well. we can play catch-22. Or start somewhere
08:49<@peter1138>Is it lunch time yet?
08:49<@peter1138>Oh!
08:49<andythenorth>peter1138: late
08:49<andythenorth>I already had crumpets
08:49<andythenorth>and something I've forgotten
08:49<planetmaker>same procedure as *every* time: it's tea time :P
08:49<@peter1138>I've got a... er... salad :p
08:49<andythenorth>now it's mac and cheese
08:49<andythenorth>then salad
08:50<planetmaker>mac...book? :P
08:50<andythenorth>oof
08:50<andythenorth>nope
08:50<planetmaker>crunchy when served with a crust of cheese
08:50<andythenorth>"Contribute to OpenTTD. Find us on irc, github, and by the bikesheds"
08:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
08:53<planetmaker>bring extra paint and blueprints
08:53<andythenorth>"Contribute: nitpicking brings the quality"
08:54<andythenorth>"Contribute: github and much lolz"
08:56<@peter1138>https://i.imgur.com/P8W4MBK.jpg :p
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>bäh, greeen...
09:00<planetmaker>rucola... not my preferred choice. But looks good :)
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>... "wer hat's erfunden?" :p
09:07<andythenorth>peter1138: such jealous
09:07<andythenorth>we should start some kind of social network
09:07<andythenorth>for lunch photos
09:07<andythenorth>maybe cats
09:07<Pikka>any time is tiffin time, planetmaker
09:07<planetmaker>yummi cats. Fried with calamari
09:09<@LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: i like it
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: i hope you don't mean the green :p
09:14<@peter1138>What's wrong with green?
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>it's... green?
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>green is the colour of poison. everyone knows that
09:25<@peter1138>It's the colour of low-effort healthy food.
09:26<@peter1138>andythenorth, about that... https://www.instagram.com/thepetererer/ ;(
09:26<@peter1138>Ooh that reminds me, I have haddock tonight again :D
09:27<andythenorth>square plates: big game
09:27<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: most of us overcome our fear of green by the age of about 15
09:27<andythenorth>my kids thoroughly distrust it, they are younger
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: too many traumatic experiences in that time
09:28<andythenorth>I didn't trust green until I was about 32
09:29<@peter1138>So what veg do you eat if you shun green?
09:29<@peter1138>Bratwursts and frikadellen don't count as veg.
09:30<@peter1138>Oh that frivilous thing passed 3 million.
09:32<andythenorth>carrots
09:32<andythenorth>sweetcorn
09:34<@peter1138>I rounded it off with a piece of simnel cake... more than doubled the carolies I bet.
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09:38<planetmaker>bratwurst and frikallen are secondary vegies
09:39<planetmaker>vegitarians eat my food's food :P
09:44<@LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: your blog post update :)
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>:)
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: i've had that thought for like 2 months now
09:56<@peter1138>Hmm
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10:26<@peter1138>Hi
10:27<nielsm>lo
10:27<@peter1138>Are you aware of k-d tree crashes?
10:28<nielsm>yes... I ought to look at some code some time soon
10:28<nielsm>been burying myself in Satisfactory for the past several days
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11:11<Samu>hi
11:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fjJt9
11:21<Samu>hi
11:50<Pikka>hihi
11:51<Samu>hey pikka, i'd like your ai to be able to build more than 500 rvs
11:51<Pikka>is that the current maximum?
11:51*Pikka checks
11:51<Samu>i think so
11:53<Pikka>huh
11:53<Pikka>well if you change the max_value in the info.nut, that should probably do it
11:54<Samu>oh me?
11:54<Pikka>well I can increase it for you in the next version, but in the meantime... :)
11:55<Samu>5000 for all vehicle types
11:55<Pikka>that's a lot of buses
11:56<Samu>i rarely see it building ships, maybe i'm trying too distant routes
11:57<Pikka>it does rarely build ships... the next version will have reworked vehicle logic which may make it build more
11:58<Pikka>but in any case the routefinding between docks is very simple, so it's unlikely to build routes that aren't straight across a lake or straight along an edge of the map :)
12:02<Samu>min town population of 500
12:03<Pikka>that's already the minimum value, isn't it?
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12:03<Samu>yes, but I'm looking at it
12:03<Samu>can you come into this game?
12:03<Samu>https://servers.openttd.org/en/server/114360
12:04<Samu>he builds bus stops in 2 towns, but doesn't build the buses ?
12:04<Pikka>are you the server? can you see the debug log?
12:04<Samu>yes I can
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12:05<Pikka>civi's is reasonably human-readable :)
12:05<Pikka>but I can see from what it's done that it hasn't found space to build 3 stops, which is the minimum it needs to build a bus route
12:05<Pikka>next cycle round it will remove the stops
12:05<Samu>ah, 3
12:06<Samu>yeah, those little details
12:07<Samu>it keeps connecting towns by roads, but without any source of income, it's not that efficient, is it?
12:07<Samu>I was expecting buses by now
12:09<Pikka>well, that's partly because you've set the minimum town size below the default. The towns it's started in are too small to place enough bus stops.
12:09<Samu>oh, I see, so that's how it works, it needs to really place all 3 stops
12:10<Pikka>ideally it places 5, but 3 is the minimum it wants
12:10<Pikka>I expect he will build a train soon though, once he gets to a town with a suitable industry
12:12<Samu>well, it still has 412k money to burn
12:13<Samu>connecting mendhead, heh, my ai is also there pathfinding
12:14<Samu>my ai pathfinds too slow, 3 years per route
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12:18<Pikka>okay, so, without being able to see the log, I predict the next thing he's going to do is connect charfingbourne, then try and build a railway to the gold mine at tronfingfield, which will probably fail because it's too wiggly around the water. Unless your ai connects mendhead to its network, in which case all the connected towns will be added to civi's network too and it might try to build somewhere else :)
12:19<Pikka>it picked a really bad place to start, tiny towns, no food processing...
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12:32<Pikka>or it could just keep retrying building bus stops in those towns :)
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12:37<@Alberth>o
12:37<@Alberth>+/
12:42<Samu>says it's connecting narfingford, where is it
12:43<Samu>oh i see it, that's a bit far
12:47<Pikka>I guess it wants the power station
12:48<Samu>my ai will probably fail pathfinding
12:48<Samu>the station is on a island
12:48<Samu>wants to connect gundwood to mendhead
12:51<Samu>it has ~4 more months to try
12:51<Samu>it is likely to fail
12:51<Pikka>I should think so, from that island
12:53<Samu>Last loop took 359 days
12:53<Samu>updating list of connected towns
12:54<Samu>a big list of towns is connected.
12:54<Samu>not big, just 10 or so
12:55<Samu>planting trees around dindingworth
12:55<Samu>can't afford to build a railway :o
12:55<Samu>was trying a coal transport by rail, but gave up
12:56<Samu>says it couldn't find a suitable locomotive :o
12:56<Samu>maybe it's true, let me check
12:56<Samu>yep, i forgot about it
12:57<Samu>no trains
12:57<Samu>maybe in 1944 ?
12:58<Samu>what's the release date of wills-2-8-0 ?
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12:58<Samu>ewww 1945 according to wiki
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13:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7200: Change: Allow locks under bridges https://git.io/fjJYU
13:01<@peter1138>:-)
13:01<Samu>@calc 1352 / 365
13:01<@DorpsGek>Samu: 3.70410958904
13:01<Samu>nearly 4 years
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13:07<@peter1138>Ok I need to go and get dog food.
13:07<@peter1138>But should I cycle or drive?
13:08<@peter1138>17:08... gonna be busy
13:08<Samu>depends on weathe
13:08<Samu>r
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>if you're in any vincinity to a city at this time of day, cycling will pretty much always be faster :p
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13:12<@peter1138>Nah, I live in a town.
13:12<@peter1138>Hmm, I should check if Aldi have any interesting offers :p
13:13<@peter1138>Cast iron tagine? Do I need one?
13:14<@peter1138>"Online exclusive" well then...
13:16<Samu>CivilAI has £233k to burn, less than half
13:16<Samu>hmm
13:16<Samu>LuDiAI AfterFix finally made the 2nd route
13:17<Samu>finally a bus!
13:17<Samu>CivilAI did it
13:19<Samu>also placed a dock
13:19<Samu>but no ship
13:22<Pikka>hooray
13:22<Pikka>yes, it's not going to build a ship to any of those docks... :)
13:22<Pikka>but they're nice decoration :P next version it's limited to 2 docks per town btw
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13:32<Pikka>hmm, maybe I should set the minimum town size to 1000, it wastes a lot of time trying to build in those too-small towns ;)
13:32*Pikka gnight
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13:38<Eddi|zuHause>... in what world does aldi ever have interesting offers?
13:55<@Alberth>in the world of aldi marketing?
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14:41<Wolf01>o/
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14:53<@Alberth>o/
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15:13<@peter1138>Yeah yeah
15:15<@peter1138>What do I want to do?
15:25<andythenorth>rewrite nml?
15:25<andythenorth>3CC?
15:25<@peter1138>No thanks.
15:25<andythenorth>vehicle variants?
15:25<@peter1138>No thanks.
15:25<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe.
15:26<@peter1138>merge nrt?
15:29<andythenorth>you didn't already? :o
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15:38<@LordAro>andythenorth: no, 5CC
15:44<frosch123>@calc 0x100000
15:44<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 1048576
15:44<frosch123>ttdp did not have enough sprites for that
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15:47<@peter1138>I have a patch for 32 company colours.
15:47<@peter1138>Dynamic generation is quite simple.
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15:54<@peter1138>But probably RGB colours is more interesting ;)
15:55<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/vehstack/vehstack_screenshot.png <- possibly 8 bpp sprites could use separate CC layers with alpha as well
15:55<frosch123>andy can also do 5cc via layers
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16:09<andythenorth>IT IS NOT THE SAME
16:09<andythenorth>peter1138 hasn't made a livery-per-layer chooser yet
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16:09<andythenorth>he should
16:10<@peter1138>Wut
16:11<andythenorth>best feature ever
16:14<@peter1138>Hmm
16:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJsx
16:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJsp
16:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJsh
16:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJGv
16:19<@peter1138>Little Brudingstone (City)
16:19<@peter1138>Uh huh
16:21<@peter1138>Hmm. Loading indicators... are they handled by k-d tree?
16:21<@peter1138>Oh wait, I'm in the vector PR.
16:24<@peter1138>Yeah.
16:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJGt
16:25<@peter1138>Crap, that beer ran out :-(
16:26<@peter1138>I bet LordAro's gone off to the pub.
16:27<@LordAro>peter1138: correct, actuallly
16:27<@LordAro>but for cycle planning purposes!
16:28<@peter1138>Good plan.
16:28<@peter1138>I could check what the plan is tomorrow.
16:29<@peter1138>Oh, some event that needs a ticket that I don't have.
16:29<frosch123>do you have beer tanker trailers for your bike?
16:29<@peter1138>Ah, it's a Rapha ride. Bloody expensive, them Rapha peeps.
16:30<@peter1138>Hmm, 7.30. Do I want to leave at 7.30 again?
16:30<@LordAro>peter1138: anything exciting? i'm probably going out tomorrow to test my saddlebag
16:30<@LordAro>peter1138: oof
16:30<@LordAro>frosch123: sounds heavy
16:30<@peter1138>"Along with exploring our local countryside, each ride will provide the chance to explore local bakeries and cafés as we (one by one) sample the delights on offer."
16:30<@peter1138>Well, I mean, cafes are pretty exciting.
16:30<frosch123>andythenorth: i guess the new xkcd was inspired by https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9203/Sarfingfield%20Transport,%204th%20Mar%202183.png
16:30<@peter1138>But I tend to not bother on the fast rides.
16:30<@LordAro>that does sound good
16:32<@peter1138>I could just sign up and then not bother. Need to register but it's free.
16:37<@peter1138>Normal ride is at 9am anyway
16:37<@peter1138>No stops.
16:44<andythenorth>lolz panama canal
16:51<@peter1138>I ate a cookie as well :/
16:57<andythenorth>ouch
16:57<andythenorth>those 16 cargo nml docs
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16:59<@peter1138>What's a doc?
17:01<DrSegfault>I have some stations which are shorter, and in rare cases long trains stop there (due to some redirections/bypasses), causing very long traffic jams. Is there a way to let trains not stop at stations where they do not fit in?
17:01<DrSegfault>Maybe an option?
17:01<@peter1138>Yeah, use non-stop orders.
17:02<@peter1138>Assuming it's an implicit orders
17:02<@peter1138>-s
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17:02<DrSegfault>peter1138: I could, but I have ~500 trains which don't use non-stop orders... :p
17:03<DrSegfault>So much work to change them all
17:03<@peter1138>And... you didn't use shared orders?
17:03<DrSegfault>Well, I did. But even then, some trains have like 100 stations, and their timetable looks clearer if you don't specify every single one of them
17:04<@peter1138>hmm
17:04<@peter1138>you'd need to put in an order before and after the offending station
17:05<@peter1138>have you considered just extending them? :p
17:06<DrSegfault>I don't want to turn some rural 3-stations into 7-stations, that would look weird
17:06<m3henry>Lordaro: size() == 0 was something I was hoping to do in another PR
17:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJG5
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17:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJGh
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17:41<TrueBrain>https://www.openttd.org/downloads/opengfx-releases/latest.html <- now publishes 0.5.5, and NSIS uses that too now
17:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019 https://git.io/fhAzy
17:44<TrueBrain>michi_cc: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7379 <- why did you request my review? I know nothing about C++11 :D
17:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7379: Codechange: Use C++11 functions for threading https://git.io/fjJZM
17:46<TrueBrain>I am sure LordAro was about to approve it :P
17:46<@LordAro>:<
17:46<TrueBrain>you weren't? :D
17:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly https://git.io/fjJZH
17:47<@LordAro>i've not looked at it in any great detail yet
17:49<TrueBrain>I am afraid you are one of the few knowledgeable enough to say anything useful about it :)
17:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJZQ
17:50<TrueBrain>11 backport-requested PRs .. guess I can do that tomorrow
17:50<TrueBrain>I understood you wanted a RC2?
17:50<@LordAro>given it's a week until 04/01, seems desirable
17:50<@LordAro>but i fear i know very little about std::thread other than "if it works, it works"
17:50<+michi_cc>I'd think with 11 (or more backports) a RC is prudent.
17:51<TrueBrain>so approve it and go go go? :D
17:51<@LordAro>things could be backported without making an RC, of course ;)
17:52<TrueBrain>I am fine with an RC
17:52<TrueBrain>I was just double checking
17:52<@LordAro>:)
17:52<TrueBrain>nielsm: in general I am not a fan of backporting 'add' PRs: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7366 . Do we really want to backport this?
17:52<@LordAro>TrueBrain: given it *could* be helpful with debugging...
17:53<@LordAro>emphasis on the *could*
17:53<TrueBrain>yes; many features could be useful :)
17:53<TrueBrain>but we have to be careful :D
17:53<+michi_cc>Well, anything that is not merged in master should not be backported :)
17:53<TrueBrain>that for sure ;)
17:53<TrueBrain>but I like the preselection ofc :)
17:53<@peter1138>Yeah I don't think that is a backport candidate.
17:53<@LordAro>mm
17:53*LordAro unlabels
17:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJZb
17:54<@peter1138>#7365 doesn't fix anything so no point in backporting it.
17:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7366: Add: List recently executed commands in crashlog output. https://git.io/fjJZN
17:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJZx
17:55<TrueBrain>any chance https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7376 or any version of it lands before tomorrow?
17:56<@LordAro>peter1138: ^ ?
17:56<TrueBrain>I don't understand the PR .. why is a client adding AIs?
17:56<TrueBrain>feels weird
17:57<TrueBrain>smells like another bug, where this is fixing the sympthons
17:58<@peter1138>I believe the server runs the AI but the client needs to know about the new company slot? Not sure.
17:58<@peter1138>Might well be the wrong way about it.
17:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJne
17:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnv
17:59<TrueBrain>how I read it, the server creates an AI, and when the command is executed, it revalidates again if it really should, or something
17:59<TrueBrain>for this, it broadcasts to all the clients the max ai setting every time ..
18:00<TrueBrain>so all clients + server can receive a command they all dismiss
18:01<TrueBrain>this feels wrong
18:01<TrueBrain>"ah, the server told us to do something, but given what I know now, I am going to completely ignore him"
18:01<TrueBrain>slippery slope :D
18:02<+glx>yeah server should just discard before sending it to clients
18:02<+glx>well validate :)
18:02<@peter1138>I think it's because test can succeed even on the server due to the command being queued anyway.
18:03<@peter1138>So I guess it's wrong if test succeeded and exec fails.
18:03<+glx>of course test and exec should have the same result
18:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7376: Fix 001257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer. https://git.io/fjJnm
18:04<TrueBrain>the more I look at it, the more I am sure this is one huge hack
18:04<TrueBrain>"it does the job" kind of solution
18:05<@peter1138>Maybe does.
18:05<+glx>BTW it seems original code is wrong too, there a check returning error after the early non exec return
18:05<@peter1138>Better solution: send the number of AIs you want to start in one command.
18:06<@peter1138>Maybue
18:06<@peter1138>I dunno :p
18:06<TrueBrain>I dunno either; I just know I don't like this solution at all :P
18:06<@peter1138>cmake fails with kdevelop, due to a bug in cmake/kdevelop
18:06<+glx>probably never triggered check but it feels wrong
18:07<TrueBrain>he references a commit fix which does not exist; excellent
18:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470) https://git.io/fjJnZ
18:07<@LordAro>there was also something mentioned about how 5 AIs are started instead of 4 genereally, i think
18:07<@LordAro>i'm really not sure
18:07<@peter1138>Yeah, something about max number of queued commands?
18:08<@LordAro>(not just in multiplayer, i mean)
18:08<@peter1138>It's not really a huge issue.
18:08<@LordAro>Samu: care to elaborate?
18:08<@peter1138>Most people are not using AIs in multiplayer
18:08<@peter1138>So I think it's safe to ignore as a backport item
18:08<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/011257dc8804175dd7d1e839e97e796c0a88aee6 <- caused by this
18:08<TrueBrain>which indeed has a loop, which causes problems
18:09<TrueBrain>easy solutions range from: only start AIs 1 per day
18:09<TrueBrain>1 per tick
18:10<TrueBrain>backports with more than one commit are a bit annoying .. it is not easy to automate if that was rebased or squashed into master :P
18:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #7376: Fix 001257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer. https://git.io/fjJn8
18:11<Samu>uh?
18:11<@LordAro>Samu: please precisely explain the issue that #7376 fixes
18:11<@LordAro>and whether it only affects multiplayer
18:11<Samu>it only affects multiplayer
18:12<@peter1138>LordAro, "No description provided" ;)
18:12<Samu>it is due to commands per frame setting
18:12<Samu>it can delay execution of commands by another tick
18:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnB
18:14<+glx>TrueBrain: https://github.com/glx22/OpenTTD/commit/e8c5e4fbf5e6faa16358895d5a611446eff149a5 <-- better ?
18:14<TrueBrain>glx: 1000% :)
18:14<TrueBrain>nice
18:15<TrueBrain>no clue if it is correct content-wise
18:15<TrueBrain>but push it :D
18:15<@LordAro>Samu: thanks, can you put that in the PR description please?
18:15<TrueBrain>glx: "calls add_custom_command(). Any add_custom_target()" :D
18:16<TrueBrain>"by add_custom_command_timestamp(), then calls add_custom_target()." <- guess something went wrong with search/replace somewhere :P
18:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnR
18:16<TrueBrain>glx: you keep mixing 'command' and 'target' in comments :D
18:17<+glx>no it's a warning to not forget to replace the add_custom_target call too
18:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnE
18:17<TrueBrain>okay, that was not clear to me :)
18:18<TrueBrain>I have no suggestions to fix :P
18:18<TrueBrain>it is difficult ..
18:18<TrueBrain>so yeah, go for it
18:18<+glx>and the other comment is just so only treated files are touched
18:19<TrueBrain>I think itreally helps if you add \n\n before that sentence, now I come to think of it
18:19<TrueBrain>and something like: "Note:" in front of it
18:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnu
18:19<+glx>because add_custom_target can have files not timestamped, like the copy command for some baseset files
18:19<TrueBrain>but okay, these kind of "hacks" to fix shortcomings in CMake will always be difficult to read :)
18:20<TrueBrain>so .. look at it, see if you can make it more uinderstandable for others .. and put it in the cmake branch :)
18:20<TrueBrain>right, time to watch some telly
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18:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJna
18:29<Samu>LordAro, it was there
18:29<Samu>i copy pasted up
18:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
18:30<Samu>let me look at the code
18:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnS
18:35<Samu>line 983 network.cpp
18:35<Samu>NetworkDistributeCommands();
18:35<Samu>this is the dude
18:37<Samu>DistributeQueue at network_command.cpp line 264
18:37<Samu>this is the function that splits the queue into multiple "frames"
18:37<Samu>aka delay one more tick
18:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJn5
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18:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnF
18:41<Samu>line 996 NetworkExecuteLocalCommandQueue() comes after the DistributeQueue
18:42<Samu>at network.cpp, this is when the AI companies are created
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18:42<Samu>but only if it wasn't delayed
18:43<Samu>line 999 starts another tick
18:43<Samu>StateGameLoop()
18:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnb
18:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fjJnN
18:49<Samu>oh, the wrong reference, gonna fix it
18:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7376: Fix 011257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer. https://git.io/fjvY8
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18:57<Samu>TrueBrain, how to solve :(
18:59<Samu>problem is caused by Company::GetNumItems()
19:00<Samu>and the fact that AI companies are started every tick
19:00<Samu>and the fact that the network can delay execution of commands by one tick
19:00<Samu>or another
19:00<Samu>I fail at explaining
19:01<Samu>line 598 has a Company::GetNumItems()
19:01<Samu>this test is done before starting the command
19:03<Samu>Company::GetNumItems() is not correct at that point
19:03<Samu>it may or may not
19:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7376: Fix 011257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer. https://git.io/fjJcm
19:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #7376: Fix 011257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer. https://git.io/fjJcm
19:07<Samu>gonna try write everything there instead
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21:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7376: Fix 011257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer. https://git.io/fjJC6
21:32<Samu>oh boy, that was too long
21:32<Samu>took me 2h30m to write
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 23 00:00:24 2019