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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-03-28

---Logopened Thu Mar 28 00:00:09 2019
---Daychanged Thu Mar 28 2019
00:00<SimYouLater>ERROR: "src/graphics_NBAN_NBAE.pnml", line 92: Unrecognized identifier 'lc_NBAN_closed_snow_switch' encountered
00:00<SimYouLater>I can't remove the section... and I can't use it as-is.
00:01<SimYouLater>RANDOM_LC_YEAR will have to wait, then.
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03:16<@peter1138>Hmm, crash on removing a station.
03:21<@peter1138>Bisect I guess :(
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04:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
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04:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
04:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
04:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
05:03<@peter1138>Caused by aa7ca7fe6
05:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
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09:40<andythenorth>is cat?
09:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened issue #7430: Vehicle waiting at station affects cargo age rating even if it did not pick up cargo
09:43<@peter1138>tac si? taxi?
09:43<andythenorth>I love that issue
09:43<andythenorth>some things in ottd are just a bit brainfuck eh :)
09:44<@peter1138>nielsmh asked them to report it.
09:44<@peter1138>But they didn't. They wanted to "understand" it.
09:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7430: Vehicle waiting at station affects cargo age rating even if it did not pick up cargo
09:46<@peter1138>What's a piglet anyway?
09:52<andythenorth>hmm wrong link
09:52<@peter1138>Ah the "legitimate" exploitation.
09:52<andythenorth>piglet is an exploit
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09:52<@peter1138>Update rating on final delivery? o_O
09:53<@peter1138>Thing is, with the piglet, that's kinda how the rating works.
09:54<andythenorth>[shrug] emoji
09:54<andythenorth>station rating is never a thing I pay attention to
09:54<@peter1138>Me too.
09:55<Romazoon>Hi, i see the "fake" piglet issue made it s way to bugtracker, is that really that important to fix ? i mean why can t we stick to don t use it if you don t want to use it ?
09:56<Romazoon>vehicle with full load orders where always a way to boost ratings, won t it be affected by changing the way cargo pick up affects rating ?
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09:57<_dp_>peter1138, you'll soon "fix" all the stuff on our "advanced tricks" page that way xD
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10:01<Romazoon>also, just want to point out that, if a vehicle that don t has anything to load do not affect station rating i think it might cause some other issues like when cargodist is not in use ? an airport easily get higher ratings due to the max speed of the planes, but why should we penalise the rating of that station in the case only busses managed to pick up some passenger. The ratings are a way to get more cargoes but i find that t
10:04<Romazoon>also a train stations with plenty of trains (deserving good ratings because maybe all those trains allow you to go many different place, i know the rating mecanism don t care of that but with plenty of train you insure an high frequency, now if there is very few cargo to pick up, you don t get any boost on ratings thanks to high frequency
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10:05<@LordAro>sounds like something we should ask for feedback for in the monthly dev post!
10:12<@peter1138>Romazoon, I figured as much.
10:12<@peter1138>The "we don't want to report it because it might get fixed" attitude.
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10:16<andythenorth>is that a recognised pattern? :P
10:16<andythenorth>does it have a name?
10:16<@peter1138>Apparently :p
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10:19<@peter1138>And no, "don't use the cheat if you don't want to cheat" isn't really acceptable.
10:19<@peter1138>Not in multiplayer.
10:19<@peter1138>Hi Samu.
10:19<@peter1138>I still don't know what you were testing last night.
10:21<Samu>comparing FOR_ALL_TOWNS vs Kdtree vs Kdtree (only perimeter)
10:21<Samu>asserting the results
10:21<@peter1138>Ok, I somehow had it in my head that one of my PRs was being tested as well, hence the confusion :-)
10:22<Samu>it was
10:22<@peter1138>With my map bounds check?
10:22<@peter1138>If you do that, then you don't need the 2 loops at the beginning searching for valid tiles
10:22<@peter1138>(Those loops are wrong anyway)
10:22<Samu>the while loops?
10:22<Samu>ok removing
10:23<@peter1138>with 7429 the bounds have been checked already
10:24<@peter1138>You could add an assert but you'd also have to take account of rotation as well.
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10:24<@peter1138>I still wonder if just checking the corners would be even simpler.
10:25<@peter1138>The distance would be ever so slightly off in the case of a missing corner tile, but otherwise hardly any difference.
10:25<Samu>i could try that
10:25<@peter1138>Maybe there will be some weird layout in the future where that doesn't work, but in that case just checking perimeter would likely fail.
10:26<@peter1138>And then again nobody even knows about newgrf airports :)
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>drawing general conclusions from yourself again? :p
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>so... i had an external HDD... but it isn't in the place where i remember last putting it...
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10:30<andythenorth>it will be where you look last
10:30<andythenorth>so just stop looking and you'll find it, right?
10:30<andythenorth>language is weird :P
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>i tried that. isn't working.
10:32<Romazoon>Peter, i kinda agree in multiplayer it s not so great, it gives work to server admin to make sure people don t use it. But it s already the case with station spread abuse.
10:33<Samu>question: is if (Town::GetNumItems() == 0) test needed?
10:33<@peter1138>Romazoon, station spread has a game setting to reduce it.
10:33<@peter1138>Romazoon, two settings, actually.
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>ok, i found it... it was near where i was expecting it to be, just slid between other things
10:34<Romazoon>and like Mczapkie pointed, there is a simple way around that setting
10:34<Romazoon>spread the station while they are attached, then remove the tiles in between the main station tile and the spread abuse tile
10:34<@peter1138>Samu, I think it could be an assert().
10:35<@peter1138>Hmm, hang on
10:35<Samu>assert(Town::GetNumItems() != 0);
10:36<Samu>> 0
10:36<@peter1138>Yes, an assert.
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10:37<@peter1138>The existing code will return NULL if there's no towns, but the calling code does not check for a NULL return, so will crash anyway.
10:37<@peter1138>(they all dereference it )
10:38<@peter1138>Romazoon, yes of course. But "Because there are multiple ways to exploit things, we should leave any exploits in" does not hold with me.
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10:40<Romazoon>Peter, i agree on that. I just don t want that ottd developers loose time fixing a behavior that is in my opinion totally acceptable. If yu had played on Mczapkie servers you would know that he is looking to make the game "very very hard...and development of companies extremely slow". i think that s the only thing that changing that behavior will achieve. is it worth developers time ? i don t think so (imho)
10:41<Romazoon>rating are quite smart if you ask me : as i pointed on the tt forum, if a station get too much cargo waiting because of the 'fake' piglet, rating will go down.
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you should worry about developer time
10:41<Romazoon>piglet cost money : i see that as an investment to upgrade a station
10:41<_dp_>peter1138, thing is, it would've been nice if it was fixed before it became mainstream :p
10:42<_dp_>peter1138, like 5-10 years ago when it was likely first reported :p
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>more like 15 :p
10:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7424: Add: Kdtree for AirportGetNearestTown
10:42<_dp_>peter1138, though whatever you do with loading is probably gonna be ok imo
10:42<@peter1138>_dp_, yeah but nobody reported it!
10:43<@peter1138>Or it was buried, maybe.
10:43<Romazoon>Eddi, developpers time is not mine, and it s seems to be a limited ressource, sorry to care about that ;)
10:43<Samu>about the rotation thing...
10:43<Samu>i dunno how to fix that
10:44<Romazoon>for me that rating problem is not a problem. but i m all open to others opinion, after all i d be totally ok with the way to go via a 'setting' to turn on or off that behavior
10:45<@peter1138>Samu, i don't know if it needs fixing.
10:45<Samu>now gonna test corners
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>my favourite approach so far was a setting in FIRS: "make rating 100% always"
10:46<@peter1138>Romazoon, "i don't mind that rating is broken" is not really valid.
10:46<Romazoon>eddi, i like it too ! especially for the oil platform with neutral it s barely possible to get high ratings (unless you terraform and use some maglev station next to oil platform)
10:46<Romazoon>it s even a serious problem for ECS
10:46<@peter1138>Samu, it'll be wrong for airports with missing corners, I think.
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>Romazoon: we "fixed" the maglev station thing, as far as i followed :p
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10:47<Samu>there are airports with missing corners already? :(
10:47<@peter1138>And also for a very large airport, possible wrong for towns half-way down a side.
10:47<Romazoon>rating are not broken ! if a station have plenty of vehicles stopping by it, it should get higher ratings, it doesn t matter if there is somthing to load or not
10:47<Samu>no way
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>we didn't say "broken", we said "exploit"...
10:48<@peter1138>I said broken, sorry.
10:48<Samu>newgrf airports? or vanilla?
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>ok, maybe i was too quick on that :p
10:48<@peter1138>Anyway station rating and station cargo rating are two different things.
10:49<@peter1138>Samu, tell me about it. I'm still mad that we ever added the extra layouts rather than deferring to newgrf.
10:49<Romazoon>eddi, i mean to get high level of production with ECS i think it s needed to reach 80% of station ratings (or 80% of the oil taken from oil platform), what else than a maglev oil train can reach that rating ?
10:49<_dp_>Romazoon, and who's changing that?
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>Romazoon: there's two ways to "fix" an exploit: a) "nerf" it, meaning you can't do it anymore, or b) making it "official" and redundant
10:49<_dp_>as I understand issue is with vehicles that can't load anything still bumping rating
10:50<Romazoon>dp : the future behavior apparently want to make station rating no going up if a vehicle arrives and find nothing to load
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>Romazoon: but how is that a problem? an industry will frequently produce something, that can be loaded
10:51<Romazoon>so in a small town, if i set plenty of trains only the one actually picking up something will up the ratings, maybe it will be the slowest train and so rating boost will be low
10:51<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, that actually could've been a problem. e.g. with seasonal industries like fruit plantations
10:51<Samu>if ((TileX(cur_tile) == it_x || TileX(cur_tile) == max_it_x) && (TileY(cur_tile) == it_y || TileY(cur_tile) == max_it_y)) {
10:51<Samu>i hope these are the corners
10:51<@peter1138>Romazoon, nope. I was only considering touching the time_since_pickup variable.
10:52<@peter1138>Not the vehicle speed/age/whatever stuff.
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>so maybe: station rating lowers, when cargo is moved to station, but nothing there to pick it up?
10:52<supermop_work_>rating my linkgraph would be cool
10:52<supermop_work_>as would town growth by link graph
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>no cargo at station means no rating change
10:52<supermop_work_>does that already exist?
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>(up or down)
10:53<@peter1138>This is just about vehicles sitting on a station and waiting and waiting and waiting and not loading because they're full, but not leaving because they are told not to leave yet.
10:53<supermop_work_>eg can get to 20 towns from here = good rating
10:53<@peter1138>supermop_work_, Oh, I was looking for a "rate my linkgraph" website :p
10:53<supermop_work_>takes 10 intermediate stops to get to a nearby big destination = less good
10:53<@peter1138>I've not done that for a long time.
10:54<_dp_>peter1138, another option is when already full vehicle arrives at the station
10:54<@peter1138>In the bug report I list a couple of options.
10:54<Romazoon>peter, ok for no change on th vehicle speed/age/whatever, i m less worrying already
10:54<@peter1138>Like only reseting it once per vehicle.
10:54<andythenorth>newgrf station rating? o_O
10:54<@peter1138>andythenorth, no, not NewGRF.
10:55<@peter1138>Although is that a thing? Probably is it.
10:55<andythenorth>yes it's a thing
10:55<@peter1138>... it is
10:55<andythenorth>it works
10:55<andythenorth>content-ish station ratings
10:55<andythenorth>make everything content
10:55<andythenorth>and make the non-content vanilla defaults Not Shit ®
10:55<_dp_>peter1138, no, not once, you need to constantly update it if there is no cargo on station
10:55<supermop_work_>i tried a (Polish?) GS once that tried to make growth dependent on passenger connections
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>iirc the industry newgrf can change ratings, but not the station newgrf
10:55<Romazoon>once per vehicle sound a good way to no t break the 'seasonal industries'...when player don t use full load
10:55<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: let me introduce you to a new concept
10:56<andythenorth>mixed grfs :P
10:56<@peter1138>_dp_, so that rating goes up, otherwise it never will, right?
10:56<_dp_>peter1138, yeah, would be a pity to loose acceptance while train is waiting for cargo ;)
10:56<supermop_work_>andythenorth: i do feel that stations that are major nodes, even if few people ever board or alight there should get good ratings
10:56<@peter1138>_dp_, at least, that is what i gathered about the original bugfix.
10:56<andythenorth>make a newgrf for that supermop_work_
10:57<supermop_work_>though if every train that pulls in is already full then yes, i get why it should have a bad rating
10:57<andythenorth>I mean., obviously everything is broken with cdist
10:57<andythenorth>but that's because cdist is broken
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>nothing good ever came out of a sentence starting with "To understand how to use it, you must first understand"
10:57<andythenorth>I love cdist, but it is broken
10:57<supermop_work_>i won't ever play without it
10:58<Romazoon>i also can t play without CD (for passengers and mail), but i just never use it for freight (too broken)
10:58<_dp_>also it's always possible to build station and send trains before building an industry
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_work_: the problem with "you must deliver X destinations for good ratings" was industry newgrfs that have overly strict reactions to low ratings (ECS)
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>also, finding out the number of valid destinations is nontrivial
10:59<andythenorth>is cdist broken for freight? :P
10:59<FLHerne>Mostly it works fairly well
10:59*andythenorth just uses a distorted play style to account for it
11:00<Samu>just tested the corners
11:00<Samu>it asserted
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11:00<Samu>RIP corners
11:00<andythenorth>- never more then 2 destinations from one pickup station
11:00<FLHerne>It's broken for supplies, because it doesn't understand the industries' demand levels
11:00<andythenorth>- always set 'do not load' orders at destination
11:00<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, it's also goal-related. e.g. it makes no sense to require x destinations in cb where everything goes to one city
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11:01<FLHerne>andythenorth: Where's the fun in that? :P
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: well, that could be tuned
11:01<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, also easily exploitable with multiple stations per destination xD
11:01<FLHerne>Overcomplicated systems based on autorefit between several cargoes in both directions are !FUN!
11:02<andythenorth>autorefit doesn't really work
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: freight cdist is not broken, but the global "distance bias" is interfering, because for freight you want it low, but for passengers high
11:02<andythenorth>the inability to serve a 3rd destination from a station is pretty broken
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>autorefit works, but you need to jump-start it
11:02<FLHerne>Actually, my current game isn't too absurd
11:03<Romazoon>so the simple solution would beto make vehicles that are already full or just became full to have no effect on the last cargo picked rating
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>generally, starting new lines can be a bit tricky with cdist
11:03<FLHerne>I've got a few lines where sand/stone/coal all share the same trains for a leg
11:03<andythenorth>it's inevitable, with the current approach
11:03<andythenorth>not sure how it could be fixed
11:03<nielsm>the big issue with cdist is that it does not model demand
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>Romazoon: that doesn't cover the variant involving cdist, where the vehicle never loads anything because it doesn't serve a link
11:03<nielsm>but invents demand based on supply
11:03<andythenorth>nielsm: that's not an issue, that's by design :)
11:04<FLHerne>And one where trains drop about half their wood to a sawmill, then pick up the corresponding timber, then drop the other wood at a paper mill and the timber at a yard
11:04<supermop_work_>Romazoon: i actually don't mind cdist with firs
11:04<supermop_work_>it's never really bothered me that much
11:04<andythenorth>the big misnomer about cdist is that it provides destinations for cargos
11:04<Romazoon>Eddi, but why that would be an exploit, people doing that (me) are paying for the running cost of said vehicle
11:04<andythenorth>clue is in the name though, it's not destinations
11:04<FLHerne>One tiny shuttle between docks and an industrial plant that carries pretty much everything in both directions
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>Romazoon: because those running costs are negligible
11:05<FLHerne>Oh, and lots of trains that carry fruit/goods/whatever in one direction and supplies in the other
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>(and nobody cares about the company rating for minimum vehicle profit)
11:06<Romazoon>eddi, true, cargodist broke that company rating XD
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>Romazoon: no, that was "broken" long before...
11:06<Romazoon>you are right, transfert were already a thing before
11:06<supermop_work_>for what it's worth, when i go to a subway station and have to wait for 2 trains to go by in rush hour because they are full
11:07<supermop_work_>i have a bad rating of that station in my mind
11:07<Romazoon>i agree on that supermop
11:07<supermop_work_>and i may next time chose a different station where i am more likely able to board
11:08<supermop_work_>similarly, on the lexington avenue line (most crowded line here), in the evening rush hour
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>Romazoon: it's also "broken" without transfers. like almost never you can have road vehicles meeting that barrier, whereas trains is trivial. and ships taking more than a year for a roundtrip
11:08<supermop_work_>downtown local trains often skip 28th, 23rd, and astor place stations, because they are too full and dont wan't to mess up the tight headway
11:09<Romazoon>i see my 'fake piglet' as machinery that equip the station. And so i find that it make sense to boost rating in those case. I mean a company would probably prefer a station that has a forklift to load it s train than a station that let the company to deal with the laoding of freight (i mention forklift cause that often what i use)
11:09<supermop_work_>so if you are waiting at 28th street, you are pissed (bad rating). and might walk instead to 33rd(better rating)
11:11<supermop_work_>Eddi|zuHause: in the past i have occasionally had a lonely overland truck duplicate a train or ship route just to keep a link active
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11:12<supermop_work_>yo Alberth
11:12<@peter1138>Samu, yeah I figured it would not give the same results.
11:12<@peter1138>Just perimeter will work mostly unless it's a strange layout which probably doesn't exist (yet)
11:13<Romazoon>Eddi, ok so minimum profit per vehicle is broken, is it on the bug list ? or is there any plan to fix that ? (an personally i never had that problem, back in the days of TTD i was taking that as a challenge and would modify my bus route if it would not achieve the profit to get max company rating
11:13<@peter1138>Samu, on the other hand, maybe it's not wrong, just different? ;)
11:13<@peter1138>Romazoon, the bug list is searchable.
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>Romazoon: back in my TT days, i didn't even know how that rating was calculated. the detailed rating window did not exist
11:14<Romazoon>now, i just don t care of company rating alltogether, i grew up and play for having nice and working large network
11:14<@peter1138>nielsm, yeah... i think simutrans did it differently.
11:15<@peter1138>nielsm, industries had explicit destinations already, regardless of routes.
11:15<Romazoon>back in the TTD days i guess i played long enough to figure it out somehow
11:15<@peter1138>nielsm, so if you just randomly hooked things up you'd not get anywhere.
11:15<@peter1138>But that is the difference between cargo*dest* and cargo*dist*
11:16<Romazoon>YACD was very interesting for OTTD, it just could not cope with a map like Cindini.
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>YACD was a performance bottleneck waiting to happen
11:17<Romazoon>and cargodist while it has default, once you have a huge network, it kinda do exactly what YACD was doing
11:17<Romazoon>except for freight
11:17<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yeah but *my* computer got faster since then ;)
11:17<@peter1138>Should I have a chocolate bar or a kiwifruit?
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: now try YACD on a 4096^2 map :p
11:18<Romazoon>i vote kiwifruit
11:18<@peter1138>I don't know where to find YACD these days :(
11:18<@peter1138>Romazoon, probaby sensible, the chocolate will still be there tomorrow...
11:18<@peter1138>And the cake...
11:19<@peter1138>My snack draw is terrible. The only thing that saves it is that all that stuff is still in it, rather than having been eaten.
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>i still have a yacd checkout
11:20<@peter1138> < oh wow, Oct 2014. I've still have that save, been play testing with it...
11:21<@peter1138>I probably don't have that scaler patch any more.
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>"fatal: unable to access '': The requested URL returned error: 403"
11:21<@peter1138>It's certainly an... interesting effect.
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>it reminds me of the days of MiniIN with the double zoom filters
11:24<@peter1138>Chocolate coated kiwifruit?
11:26<andythenorth>YACD was so good
11:26<andythenorth>really fricking awesome
11:26<andythenorth>I didn't have the 'it eats CPU' problem
11:26<andythenorth>probably because I don't play idiot-sized maps
11:26<andythenorth>why is openttd distorted by demands from people who have no taste? :(
11:27<andythenorth>it stops us making it nice
11:27<andythenorth>peter1138: drawer not draw :P
11:28<@peter1138>Yes, I... lazied it.
11:29<Romazoon>i m an idiot with no taste. Yet i m having lot of fun playing ottd, thank you :P
11:30<@peter1138>andythenorth, okay, how do we bring back YACD, bearing in mind that CargoDist exists.
11:30<@peter1138>I was told it was possible to build it on top of cargodist, at the time.
11:30<@peter1138>But nobody did :/
11:31<Romazoon>and to be honest, i only play idiot sized map on multiplayer, so when there is enough idiots to play with me xD
11:31<andythenorth>peter1138: NFI, fork it, remove cdist?
11:31<andythenorth>fragment the community?
11:32<andythenorth>to be completely fair to fonso, I don't hate cdist, it's really added something to the game
11:32<andythenorth>it's just not YACD
11:32<andythenorth>and YACD wasn't viable at the time
11:32<andythenorth>so eh
11:32<@peter1138>yet simutrans has it ;)
11:33<Romazoon>we should have cardodist for passenger and mail (because once you have a big network it kinda work the same as YACD), and YACD for freight/indutries
11:33<@peter1138>Maybe it just needed k-d trees.
11:33<andythenorth>k-d trees for all
11:33<andythenorth>michi_cc would know more what the problem was
11:33<andythenorth>iirc, it was because packets are tracked individually, not statistically, but I might be wrong
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>we need to rewrite the game loop so things like vehicles and cargopackets can be concurrent
11:34<@peter1138>They are intertwined...
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, we need to cut those
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>vehicles must be able to move independently from each other
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>it works in the real world :p
11:35<@peter1138>A thread for each vehicle :D
11:36<andythenorth>can we offload it to cloud lambdas?
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that is feasible :p
11:36<@peter1138>Okay so you need to break out cargo loading from the vehicle loops.
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11:36<Eddi|zuHause>just because you design it to be concurrent doesn't mean it must run in parallel
11:36<andythenorth>now it gets interesting
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11:37<@peter1138>And cargo unloading, I guess.
11:37<@peter1138>But once you do that, what's left of the vehicle loops? Just a bit of movement really.
11:37<@peter1138>Oh yeah, pathfinding :)
11:42<Samu>there's still something I wanna test
11:43<Samu>different airport types!
11:43<Samu>I only tested intercontinental
11:49<@peter1138>I suppose you could run vehicle types separately, except for level crossings.
11:49<@peter1138>But probably most games only have tons of trains and not much else :p
11:49<@peter1138>Split per company? :p
11:53<_dp_>ha, looks like I'm not the only one with too many idle cores :p
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>split per company doesn't make a lot of sense, you still have interdependencies, especially RV, and you just kill infra sharing for no benefit
11:54<Samu>if I waited 1h25m yesterday, how much am i gonna wait now?
11:55<@peter1138>Do it on a small map.
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12:20<Samu>I added some % so that I dont get bored quickly
12:21<Samu>1024x1024 and below have passed the test
12:21<Samu>waiting for these two, 2048x2048
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12:41<Samu>while this is running, im gonna play patch of exile
12:45<@peter1138>Samu, oh, I was wrong, none of the default airports have missing tiles.
12:45<@peter1138>I thought the intercontinental did, but it's just a bare airport tile visible as grass.
12:47<@peter1138>It is a missing tile in the OpenGFX+ airports version of it, though.
12:47<Samu>oh, hi
12:48<Samu>im not testing opengfx :(
12:48<Samu>patch of exile is patching... typical
12:48<Samu>so im back
12:49<Samu>should I test opengfx+?
12:51<@peter1138>I dunno, maybe.
12:51<@peter1138>Test the opengfx+ intercontinental :)
12:52<@peter1138>It has one corner missing.
12:52<Samu>im gonna assume intercontinental is still 7
12:52<Samu>enum type thing
12:53<@peter1138>I would not assume.
12:54<@peter1138>They may be APIs to query but I dunno
12:54<Samu>I dont think there is
12:54<Samu>there's AIAirport.INTER_CON things
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12:57<@peter1138>NewGRFs can add more airports, so...
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12:59<Samu>for this test I know I'm gonna have to wait 1h25m or less if it asserts
12:59<Samu>cpu usage 51%, I can still play poe
13:02<Samu>it's funny
13:03<Samu>if i were on the i5-2500, this would mean 100% cpu usage, could no longer play poe
13:03<Samu>AMD wins
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>so my yacd checkout, how would i move that over to the new git?
13:08<nielsm>with a lot of effort
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>apparently i also have a daylength patch applied on top of it :)
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>can i export stuff as like a patch queue?
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>so i export all stuff from the last common trunk revision, check out that revision in the new git, and reapply it?
13:10<nielsm>if the old code is also in git, I guess you'd add the new repos as a remote to the old, rebase the patch onto the matching base revision from the new repos, and then carefully bring the code up to present HEAD
13:10<nielsm>maybe in small steps
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>let's ignore the rebase to head for now
13:11<Samu>2048x2048 test finished
13:11<Samu>that test was testing all vanilla airports on all tiles
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>there's a problem that the old git mirror and the new git have unrelated revisions that are essentially the same
13:11<Samu>about 3k towns
13:11<Samu>no errors
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>the old code is in a git repo
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>but one based on the old mirror
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>i would need to teach it that those are the same
13:12<nielsm>you want to use "git rebase --onto"
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>so, in the old repo, i fetch from the new git?
13:13<nielsm>which likely requires three revision hashes, starting point of old branch, end point of series you want to move, and destination revision
13:13<Samu> server name doesn't fit?
13:13<nielsm>yeah add the new repo as a new remote to the old
13:14<nielsm>or do it the other way around
13:14<nielsm>add the old repo as a remote in the new
13:14<nielsm>the important part is getting both histories available in a single repo
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13:18<Samu>speaking of names that don't fit...
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>so, last common revision is r22439
13:18<Samu>server address doesn't fit
13:19<Samu>server name on the right in orange, doesn't fit
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13:21<Eddi|zuHause>which in our current timeline is b7c6424104e6261599a00f81e7e2aa1754454a18
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>so i now git rebase --onto b7c6424104e6261599a00f81e7e2aa1754454a18?
13:21<nielsm>and you need one or two revision names more
13:21<nielsm>from the old branch
13:22<nielsm>start and end revision you want to rebase from
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>i have no clue what you're saying
13:22<nielsm>I barely remember this either
13:23<nielsm>did it twice or so last year
13:23<nielsm>but rebase --onto with just the destination revision is going to do the wrong thing
13:28<nielsm>you want to name three revisions on the rebase --onto commandline
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>but where would i put those things into a command line?
13:28<nielsm>read the docs?
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>i'm trying
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>not finding the right info
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>"git help rebase" seems to suggest just "rebase" should do it
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>but it gives only a simple example there
13:33<Samu>that's how my brain interprets that
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>ok, i think just plain rebase worked
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm, git has somewhere stored wrong login/password pair
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't know where that is stored to delete it
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13:39<nielsm>actually that looks like the wrong thing
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13:39<nielsm>how you configure a system to manage credentials
13:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references.
13:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references.
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>bah... i can't find it
13:46<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess it's not impossible that ca2f33c6d needs more eyes.
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>what's ca2f33c6d?
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13:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm, it might be broken
13:53<@peter1138>old erase did a swap & pop from the end
13:54<@peter1138>std::vector erase shifts all the elements down
13:54<@peter1138>so #7431 fixes one occurrence that definitely mattered.
13:54<@peter1138>I think this other commit is okay.
13:55<@peter1138>Although I haven't looked at the SmallMap callers.
13:56<@peter1138>All checks passed, woo :D
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>"This branch is 66 commits ahead, 5899 commits behind OpenTTD:master. "
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>where can i view history on github?
13:59<@peter1138>It's pretty shit.
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14:00<Eddi|zuHause>it seems to look right
14:00<@peter1138>I'm getting used to 'tig' but gitg is okay.
14:02<@peter1138>Oh, does NML need to be updated for those new variables?
14:02<@peter1138>Hmm, and I guess newgrf-specs wiki
14:03<Eddi|zuHause> now, should we try rebasing? :p
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14:03<Eddi|zuHause>this is based on yacd 2.2, dunno if there was a newer version
14:05<@peter1138>Well it's going to go horribly wrong at cargodist, certainly.
14:06<@peter1138>2.3 was released.
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>then i don't have that
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>can you "bisect" a rebase? like "try rebasing over X revisions, if no errors, continue"?
14:08<nielsm>I don't think there's anything built in to do that
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14:18*peter1138 fiddles
14:18<andythenorth>hmm FIRS
14:19<andythenorth>time for the test game
14:19<andythenorth>which inevitably ends after 7 years when I discover some horrible FIRS bug :P
14:19<andythenorth>if only there was a way to short cut that part :P
14:20<@peter1138>AIs + fast-forward.
14:20<andythenorth>15 AIs or 16? o_O
14:20<@peter1138>Well now!
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14:21<andythenorth>pikka hasn't done much industry stuff in Civil AI yet
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14:24<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
14:24<andythenorth>anyone played Villages is Villages?
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14:32<Wolf01>fillLeft("supermop_work", "_", random()) fix your connection :P
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you mean, you want to just have the horrible bugs, and not play a game?
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14:37<supermop_work_>andythenorth: ive played a lot of viv
14:37<andythenorth>is it good?
14:37<supermop_work_>if that's waht you want
14:37<supermop_work_>if certainly does what it says on the tin
14:37<andythenorth>I want GS with some kind of narrative
14:38<@peter1138>I've loaded it, but wasn't sure what I was meant to do
14:38<andythenorth>I need to try more GS
14:38<supermop_work_>it is still limited by the map generator in the sense that if you want big city surrounded by smaller towns that stay small you get that
14:38<andythenorth>instead of just declaring GS broken
14:38<@peter1138>What I want to do is play a multiplayer game with NRT
14:38<andythenorth>you do?
14:38<@peter1138>It's not been merged yet.
14:38<andythenorth>well merge it
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14:39<andythenorth>I need to test unreleased FIRS :P
14:39<supermop_work_>even if a small town is the most natural center of your network, and the only big city is on top of some remote mountain in the corner of the map
14:39<andythenorth>but we have no way to do that
14:39<andythenorth>how will Villages* interact with pikka's TAI?
14:39<andythenorth>both try to control towns
14:39<@peter1138>"At least 1 approving review is required by reviewers with write access."
14:39<@peter1138>I dunno.
14:39<supermop_work_>viv just limits growth
14:39<andythenorth>YOU ALREADY DID
14:39<@peter1138>When all the commits have my NAME on them.
14:40<andythenorth>TB also reviewed it
14:40<andythenorth>ages ago
14:40<supermop_work_>i imagine it would work with tai, just dampen some of its effects in smaller towns
14:40<andythenorth>if only it had already been available in a binary for like 2 years, peter1138
14:40<andythenorth>it might have had play testing and stuff
14:40<andythenorth>even test grfsa
14:41<@peter1138>Not so much "test"
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>"43c8cd1d5e7d0fa2b7e369eac0239a41ae6c0bb1 is the first bad commit"
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>the rebase
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>that's the first rev that causes a conflict
14:42<@peter1138>That's automatic -> implicit orders
14:43<@peter1138>Fairly invasive search & replace, tbh.
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>but that shouldn't be a code problem, just a conflict resolving headache
14:44<@peter1138>Hm, maybe I should fake the commits to be from andythenorth, and then approve it myself, and then lol
14:44<@peter1138>3rd Jun.
14:45<@peter1138>And we'd already had updates before it was PR'd.
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14:47<andythenorth>peter1138: create a sock puppet account, gain our trust, then get approval rights, then commit it?
14:47<@peter1138>Maybe I already did!
14:48<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Wasn't there an attempt somewhere at implementing YACD by manipulating the cdist graph?
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>"configure: error: gcc older than 3.3 can't compile OpenTTD because of its poor template support" well, that makes testing the changes difficult
14:49<@peter1138>FLHerne, that was the alleged way of doing it
14:49<@peter1138>FLHerne, not sure if anyone actually did it.
14:49<+glx>3.3 is very old
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>glx: it's misdetecting the version
14:50<FLHerne>Oh, it's branches yacdmess{1,2} in
14:50<@peter1138>How reassuring.
14:51<+glx>at least it's explicit :)
14:52<FLHerne>Oh, is more recent
14:52<FLHerne>Forum post
14:54<@peter1138>Maybe we can merge it before nrt
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, let's ignore that :)
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause>next one: "5bb79b1f46f2428f6416ad6d85b0e903ca9629b4 is the first bad commit"
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>another rename commit
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>that conflict doesn't seem to have anything to do with that?
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15:06<andythenorth>some way to built train stations in cities :P
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15:06<andythenorth>built / build /s
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15:08<Eddi|zuHause>ok, i think that was right... but i'm not sure
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15:16<nielsm>have anyone tried to solve the problem of income distribution for transferred cargo by using a chain of only partially resolved cargo packets that builds up until the cargo reaches the final destination?
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15:17<nielsm>or other way of keeping track of every leg of the route travelled
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15:22<andythenorth>diagonal canals? o_O
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15:22<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: problem will be that loading/unloading may split and join cargopackets
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>(and memory consumption will be multiplied by average transfer chain length)
15:23<Samu>i think the rail station is uglier
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: not sure what your problem is
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>other than the raised landscape
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>and the stub river
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15:25<andythenorth>ugly square canal
15:26<@peter1138>Gu for desert tonight
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15:27<@peter1138>Hmm, okay, why are trams available in the scenario editor?
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15:30<Samu>peter1138, 7424 + 7429, passed the assert, intercontinental opengfx+ newgrf
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>the question should be: why not rails?
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>and a company switch?
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>similar to gamescripts, scenario editor user should be able to build as "world" or as "company <X>"
15:31<@LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: traditionally scenarios don't contain any companies
15:31<@peter1138>Yeah? Well, that isn't the task I am tackling.
15:31<Samu>on a 4096x4096 map, about 12k towns
15:32<@LordAro>i imagine it could, but it's not exactly been designed with that in mind
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: the orginal featured scenarios with prebuilt infrastructure
15:32<@peter1138>Samu, try with low towns on a 4k map :-)
15:32<Samu>low? ok
15:32<@peter1138>That Gu was very nice but pretty damn small for the amount of carolies
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15:33<Samu>low or very low?
15:33<Samu>which preset
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15:33<Samu>low it is
15:34<Samu>2816 towns
15:36<JGR>@nielsm, to answer your earlier question on income distribution, yes, I've implemented this
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15:38<Samu>i wonder, how would an AI access those other airports
15:39<Samu>time to run visual studio
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15:45<andythenorth>it was briefly JGR
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15:48<@peter1138>'twas brillig
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15:57<Samu>weird stuff lol
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15:57<Samu>so this is how an AI sees the airports
15:57<Samu>the opengfx+ airports thing
15:58<Samu>goes up till 127
15:58<@peter1138>What list is that?
15:58<@peter1138>I mean, what's the API call?
15:59<Samu>type 9 apparently isn't a valid airport type
15:59<@peter1138>Or are you blindly querying airport information?
15:59<Samu>Im doing this:
15:59<Samu>API is 1.4
16:00<@peter1138>We're on 1.9 now of course.
16:00<Samu>I didn't run that one
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16:01<Samu>gonna add that to the list
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16:02<TrueBrain>glx: that cmake commit, will you backport that to master?
16:02<Samu> from what that says... Is Valid Airport Type does check if it's available
16:02<TrueBrain>glx: <- this one :D ("that" is a bit vague :P)
16:03<+glx>the warning happens only with cmake, because settingsgen is now 64bit for win64
16:04<+glx>so I guess it can wait
16:04<Samu>gonna test without opengfx
16:05<TrueBrain>glx: okay, let me rephrase: please backport this to master
16:05<+glx>ah ok
16:05<TrueBrain>the smaller the diff with the cmake branch, the better :)
16:05<TrueBrain>having these random things in there only make the review more difficult :)
16:05<TrueBrain>current code is wrong either way :P :D
16:05<Samu>same thing
16:05<Samu>but stops at 8
16:06<@peter1138>same thing?
16:06<Samu>then from 10 to 127 it says it's available
16:06<@peter1138>You mean after 8 you get the same?
16:06<@peter1138>Yeah, I think that's a bug.
16:06<Samu>let me paste
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16:08<Samu>I wonder what happens if I actually try to place airport type 127 lol
16:08<@peter1138>If it is actually allowed, that's another bug.
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16:13<@peter1138>Watching trees grow and die in fast-forward is mesmerising.
16:13<TrueBrain>make into a gif? :D
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>if only tree growth had a vison...
16:13<@peter1138>Also: too many trees.
16:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7432: Fix: [Win64] settingsgen MSVC compile warnings
16:14<TrueBrain>tnx glx :)
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16:15<andythenorth>newgrf trees!
16:15<TrueBrain>newgrf andy!
16:15<TrueBrain>that would be awesome :D
16:16<TrueBrain>means we can customize andythenorth with actions :D
16:16<andythenorth>content > settings
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16:16<andythenorth>TrueBrain: approve NRT pls, thx bai
16:16<@peter1138>andythenorth, nah, I found a bug :p
16:16<TrueBrain>sure. You want more pink, or more purple?
16:16<TrueBrain>owh, approve? I was reading improve
16:16<TrueBrain>I am disapointed
16:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7432: Fix: [Win64] settingsgen MSVC compile warnings
16:17<+glx>wow fast
16:18<TrueBrain>without checking if the CI generates warnings :P He has faith in you :D
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16:22<@peter1138>Worked for me.
16:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7432: Fix: [Win64] settingsgen MSVC compile warnings
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16:26<Samu>I have bad news
16:27<Samu> <-> AIAirport.BuildAirport(65, 127, AIStation.STATION_NEW);
16:28<+glx>and what's the bad news ?
16:29<Samu>airport type 127
16:29<@peter1138>Undefined airports are... buildable. They fallback to the first type.
16:30<@peter1138>So the airport type restrictions are GUI-only at the moment, I guess.
16:30<@peter1138>Hmm, does it let you build that even if the small airport would otherwise be unavailable?
16:30<@peter1138>(By date)
16:31<Samu>let me test in year 2000
16:31<andythenorth>I need to make industries bigger
16:31<andythenorth>just to fit stations around htem
16:33<Samu>didn't build
16:33<supermop_work_>andythenorth: i want newgrf trees
16:33<supermop_work_>particularly i want a British Trees set
16:34<supermop_work_>that will never be released despite generating 10 years of bad blood
16:34<andythenorth>or can I have stations with bigger catchment?
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16:35<@peter1138>For Tai(32)?
16:36<@peter1138>Everything spread out further...
16:36<@peter1138>Right, I'm guessing trams shouldn't be in the scenario editor, but roads are fair game.
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16:38<andythenorth>agh fuck
16:38<andythenorth>5 years into game; all my industries start to close
16:39<andythenorth>I should restore that feature in FIRS :(
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16:41<supermop_work__>why is the office internet so bad this week
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16:42<Eddi|zuHause>i thought that was office standard
16:43<andythenorth>these closures :(
16:44<andythenorth>with FIRS Steeltown, the industry chains are about 6 levels deep
16:44<andythenorth>so I planned a network based on industry locations
16:44<andythenorth>and now they're closing :(
16:44<andythenorth>is this just how people normally play? :P
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16:48<_dp_>andythenorth, so do you see now why I want no closing setting? :p
16:48<andythenorth>write a special GS
16:48<andythenorth>to use with all the other special GS
16:48<andythenorth>that nobody writes
16:49<andythenorth>can GS make a call to an AWS lambda? o_O
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16:49<_dp_>andythenorth, GS can't quite help with closing :p
16:49<andythenorth>no shit :P
16:50<andythenorth>oof I might have to fix this FIRS
16:50<@peter1138>Closing after how many years?
16:51<andythenorth>it's behaving as expected
16:51<@peter1138>Should've hooked more up by then.
16:51<@peter1138>New New Road Vehicle. Hm.
16:51<andythenorth>I solved this years ago in FIRS, but 16-cargos breaks it
16:51<_dp_>btw, technically speaking newgrf can't modify default industries either
16:51<@peter1138>Why does it break it?
16:51<_dp_>only define a new set that looks like default and works like default
16:51<andythenorth>it made assumptions about 3 cargos
16:52<andythenorth>needs adjusting for 16
16:52<andythenorth>so I just commented it out
16:52<andythenorth>I figured it would be interesting to play a test game with original closure behaviour also
16:52<andythenorth>it's just annoying mostly :P
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16:53<@peter1138>Hmm, AIAI places very odd road stops everywhere.
16:54<andythenorth>'too far from previous destination'
16:54<andythenorth>more bouys
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16:55<@peter1138>Ah, AIAI is abusing stationspread :p
16:56<andythenorth>so am I
16:56<andythenorth>have you nerfed it? o_O
16:57<@peter1138>No, it just explains the very odd road stop everywhere.
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>but, did you break it with your new acceptance radius?
16:59<@peter1138>No, it'll still work.
16:59<_dp_>will need much more spreading if station size is big enough
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17:00<+glx>just needs more road stops :)
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17:01<@peter1138>Yeah basically the "only place two opposite corners" trick no longer works
17:01<@peter1138>But you can still stuff a city with road stops to get full catchment
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17:04<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, my question was, does the existing implementation of AIAI use a "sparse" approach that breaks or a "stuffed" approach that is unaffected?
17:05<+glx>it probably already handle different catchment settings
17:05<+glx>and station spread
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but it won't know about this change
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>(unless someone updated the code)
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17:14<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: should work again
17:18<+michi_cc>And for the record, the main problem of YACD is/was performance, especially generating cargo packets where source and destination have a station but no valid path between.
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17:20<+michi_cc>Caching might work, but negative caching is always tricky.
17:22<@peter1138>I imagine fitting it in around cargodist is going to be tricky as well
17:24<@peter1138>Just got the random hang on exit bug...
17:24<@peter1138>SDL_AudioQuit :/
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17:27<Samu>fix ai airports api
17:27<+glx>what's wrong ?
17:27<@peter1138>Samu, Are you?
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17:27<Samu>no, I'm not doing anything atm
17:28<Samu>also, the documentation is kinda misleading :(
17:29<@LordAro>Samu: stop complaining and fix it, or at least document that it's an issue
17:29<andythenorth>so does HEQS get merged to Road Hog, or what? :P
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'd vote no
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>keep them separate
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>HEQS should be a set of special purpose vehicles that can be used with other vehicle sets
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>no need to vendor-lock HEQS users
17:30<Samu>I think Zuu talked to me once about api stuff code he was preparing for trunk, about these issues
17:31<Samu>but trunk is over :(
17:31<andythenorth>it's just a bit weird that HEQS can't be used with Road Hog
17:31<andythenorth>well it can
17:31<andythenorth>I just don't
17:31<@peter1138>trunk is now master. It's not over, it's better.
17:32<+glx>we can't break things without approval now :)
17:32<+glx>big progress
17:33<Samu> is this ever going to be updated with 1.9?
17:34<Samu>i really wanted a website to see the new functions all in one place
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17:34<andythenorth>why would it be updated for 1.9?
17:34<andythenorth>1.9 isn't released
17:34<Samu>think this trunk, is still the old trunk
17:34<Samu>it doesn't have the new functions
17:35<@LordAro>go nuts.
17:35<Samu>oh, cool, ty
17:35<@LordAro>(also available for nightlies)
17:35<@LordAro>but yes, someone (read: TB) should work out how to get the noai/nogs/docs sites updated
17:36<@peter1138>Poor TB, having stuff dumped on him.
17:36<+glx>not many functions are missing I think
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17:37<andythenorth>hmm nfo
17:37<+glx>maybe company color ones
17:37*andythenorth updates CHIPS
17:37<+glx>but we don't change API so often
17:38<Samu>enum AIAirport::AirportType is described as: "The types of airports available in the game. "
17:38<Samu>lists the 9 vanilla airports
17:38<Samu>and nothing about possible newgrf airports :o
17:39<+glx>API can't know them
17:39<Samu>it can :)
17:39<+glx>but you can still build newgrf airports
17:40<Samu>opengfx+ airports as seen by the AI
17:40<+glx>I mean you can't put newgrfs airports in the enum as the index are not constant
17:41<+glx>and you can have at most 128 airport types
17:41<Samu>from 10 to 23, I think
17:41<Samu>are the newgrf airports
17:41<+glx>if you load more than one newgrf airport
17:41<Samu>then from 24 to 127, are the buggy airports that shouldn't be listed
17:42<+glx>depending on the newgrf order index will change
17:43<@peter1138>glx, samu is crap at explaining anything
17:43<Samu>yes, I am :(
17:43<@peter1138>glx, basically, the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built.
17:44<+glx>that's what I understood
17:44<@peter1138>So if an AI wants to query airport types, it gets a list of 127 of them.
17:44<@peter1138>Instead of, say, 10.
17:44<+glx>I can look at that
17:44<andythenorth>FIRS design is probably too much dictated by neato algorithm for graphviz :P
17:44<@peter1138>You could, but what it really needs is just an issue on github.
17:44<@peter1138>21:27 <@peter1138> Samu,
17:45<@peter1138>Samu, thems the rules.
17:45<@peter1138>Samu, if you are not going to fix it yourself and make a PR (which is fine, you don't need to) then you really should file an issue instead. Don't just keep moaning about it on here.
17:46<Samu>ok I will create an issue, I don't think i know how to fix this, it's newgrf stuff, which I rarely use/test
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17:46<+glx>it's not newgrf stuff, it's how AirportSpec::Get(byte type) to always return a valid spec
17:48<andythenorth>yair, FIRS definitely too much designed by 'what makes graphviz look less crap'
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17:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built.
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17:57<Samu>copy pasted the explanation
17:59<@peter1138>I have no idea how to "create an ai with this" :p
17:59<@peter1138>But thanks, that's good.
17:59<+glx>I'll check that, but not now :)
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18:13<Samu>which type is helidepot
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18:15<+glx>you can print the value, but it's 8
18:15<+glx>ah no 6
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18:15<+glx>they are not ordered by value
18:16<Samu>the one before was commuter
18:16<+glx>but it's not really important to know the value as there's an enum
18:17<Samu>dang, this 4096x4096 test still got 7 and 8 to go
18:17<+glx>7 intercon, 8 helistation
18:17<Samu>4-5 hours to go
18:18<Samu>maybe 4
18:18<+glx>but if something works on smaller maps it will usually work on huge ones
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18:20<@peter1138>Are you still testing the airportgetnearesttown function for giant maps for all airport types?
18:20<@peter1138>I mean...
18:20<@peter1138>What's the point?
18:20<Samu>because I'm making sure perimeter check is enough test
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>are we talking about a function that gets called once on a user click?
18:21<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, a bit more when AIs test it.
18:21<Samu>talking about 7424 + 7429 combined
18:22<Samu>without 7429, 7424 fails
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>if we're implementing an optimized-for-area kdtree lookup, then it shouldn't matter much whether we're checking the perimeter or the full area
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18:23<@peter1138>It's not, it still loops.
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18:32<Samu>just started testing intercontinental... again :(
18:33<Samu>if everything goes according to plan, in 3 hours I'm finished
18:33<Samu>% indicators were a good addition, at least I'm not looking at a blank screen
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18:50<SimYouLater>So, can someone help me figure out how to deal with "RANDOM_LC_YEAR" for the Recycled Infrastructure Set?
18:51<SimYouLater>I can't delete it because it's needed for some of the code I took from Nutracks, but it spits up an error.
18:51<SimYouLater>ERROR: "src/graphics_NBAN_NBAE.pnml", line 92: Syntax error, unexpected token "RANDOM_LC_YEAR" Included from: "ris.pnml", line 2
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>have you tried compiling NuTracks the official way?
18:52<SimYouLater>I just said I'm not trying to compile Nutracks. I'm trying to borrow it's code. RIS is basically "use this instead of 10 other NewGRFs".
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but have you tried?
18:53<SimYouLater>Fair enough.
18:53<SimYouLater>Brb, then.
18:55<SimYouLater>I have no idea how to complie Nutracks. It has a couple "Makefile" files, but nothing for compiling. Do I just do it with the command line, or what?
18:55<@LordAro>you might find something more interesting inside those files
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>there is a command line tool called "make"
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>that will process the "Makefile" files
18:57<SimYouLater>There's a "make" tool in my RIS folder. How do I copy and use it for Nutracks?
18:58<@LordAro>that would be... unexpected
18:59<@LordAro>what's the current structure of your RIS folder?
18:59<SimYouLater>Just tried to copy it over and edit with notepad. Even after adding the subfolder the pnmls are in, it won't compile.
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you're doing the right thing here
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19:00<SimYouLater>Alright. I'll let you explain.
19:01<@LordAro>it's difficult to say anything without knowing what your current setup is, and what on earth this "make" thing is that you've found
19:01<SimYouLater>gcc -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o src/nutracks.nml src/nutracks.pnml nmlc src/nutracks.nml PAUSE
19:02<SimYouLater>If you need more, just tell me and I'll upload a zip of it for you.
19:02<@LordAro>that is, oddly, exactly what you want
19:02<@LordAro>though i imagine you're missing gcc
19:02<@LordAro>since i presume you're running nmlc via cmd?
19:03<SimYouLater>Just found gcc. Sorry, I've been away from coding for a while.
19:04*_dp_ hopes it's not gcc.bat
19:04<@LordAro>well gcc's been around since 1980, so...
19:04<SimYouLater>Well. It's going to take 30 minutes to copy the gcc folder over to the Nutracks folder.
19:05<@LordAro>can i ask what you've found?
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19:05<SimYouLater>That's what I found. Also in my RIS folder.
19:05<@peter1138>Yeah I don't think you want to be copying that over the Nutracks folder.
19:06<@LordAro>SimYouLater: look up MSYS2
19:06<@LordAro>it will make your life a lot easier
19:07<SimYouLater>Oh. It's versioning software. I can't deal with that stuff. It's only easier if you are willing to spend hours setting up and learning how to use it.
19:08<@LordAro>well no
19:08<@peter1138>1) it's not.
19:08<@LordAro>but also yes
19:08<@peter1138>2) versioning is definitely worth it
19:09<@LordAro>peter1138: not good enough for you?
19:09<SimYouLater>Not for me. I can't deal with versioning. Last time I tried to do it, I ended up uninstalling it and never looking back.
19:10<@LordAro>i think you will struggle in future without it
19:10<SimYouLater>What does MSYS2 do?
19:10<@LordAro>there's a reason they exist
19:12<@LordAro>MSYS2 is, very simply, a development environment for Windows
19:12<@LordAro>contains things like make, gcc, python, whatever
19:13<@LordAro>all in a way that means that you don't have to think about installing things individually, nor copy everything into the same directory like a crazy person
19:14<@LordAro>hmm, that was a bit much, my apologies. but still, shunning a major development standard practice isn't going to work out well long term
19:14<@LordAro>we even taught Samu how to use version control
19:15<SimYouLater>If I'm going to do this, I need to have voice chat to help me set it up. I'm assuming MSYS is a local thing I put on my computer, not cloud-based versioning.
19:16<@LordAro>you're unlikely to have much luck convincing anyone to do voice chat here. might be a decent start. it's for compiling OTTD (obviously) rather than any grf stuff, but most of the basics are there
19:16<@LordAro>but yes, it is a local system thing
19:25<SimYouLater>error: failed to commit transaction (unexpected error) Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
19:26<SimYouLater>MSYS isn't working right, in spite of following instructions to the letter.
19:26<Samu>I'm using version control? I probably am, I dunno
19:26<Samu>I tend to do a lot of stuff that I don't know
19:27<@LordAro>Samu: git and svn are version control systems, yes
19:27<@LordAro>SimYouLater: that error seems incomplete
19:27<Samu>ah, that's what you call version control
19:27<@LordAro>something above it, i think
19:27<Samu>in that case, yes :p
19:28<Samu>for me, they're patch switchers, sort of
19:28<SimYouLater>It said something about taking longer than 10 seconds with too little incoming data.
19:28<SimYouLater>For multiple packages.
19:29<SimYouLater>Wait, I think it worked the second time.
19:29<@LordAro>SimYouLater: sounds like your internet connection might have some issues
19:29<@LordAro>especially if you're still doing that gcc download
19:29<@LordAro>Samu: even patches are sort of a version control system
19:29<@LordAro>just... less automated
19:30<Samu>just finished playing tetris in path of exile
19:31<Samu>if you know what I mean
19:39<SimYouLater>Okay, I got everything installed. The next step is about compiling OpenTTD, so I assume I'm done.
19:41<SimYouLater>Now what?
19:42<@LordAro>rerun that make.bat script from the msys terminal
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>"Welcome to the April 2018 Update"... am i late to the party?
19:43<@LordAro>i'm not sure they've fully rolled out the October 2018 release yet
19:43<SimYouLater>$ cd C:\TTDTools\GRFs\! Useful Sources !\nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: !\nutracks: event not found
19:44<@peter1138>Uh oh, strange characters in paths
19:44<@LordAro>'!' tend to interfere with pathnames
19:44<@LordAro>try quoting it
19:45<SimYouLater>$ cd C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: cd: too many arguments
19:45<@LordAro>oh right, backslashes
19:46<@LordAro>MSYS uses a slightly different way of doing paths - use "/c/TTDTools/..."
19:46<@LordAro>i think quoting it would work as well
19:46<SimYouLater>$ cd /c/TTDTools/GRFs/Useful Sources/nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: cd: too many arguments
19:47<@peter1138>Still need to quote it.
19:47<SimYouLater>Quoting worked, yeah.
19:47<@LordAro>the spaces
19:48<SimYouLater>$ bash: run: command not found
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: is that the one that wiped your hard disk if you used custom paths?
19:48<Samu>started helistation, airport type 8, the last one
19:48<@LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: hmm?
19:48<@LordAro>SimYouLater: what did you try to do?
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>the October 2018 update
19:49<@LordAro>oh right, yes
19:49<@LordAro>something to do with onedrive, iirc
19:49<SimYouLater>Tried to run the make.bat from msys terminal
19:49<SimYouLater>Fortunately, my hard drive has not been wiped.
19:50<@LordAro>SimYouLater: and you typed "run" ?
19:50<SimYouLater>Yes. run make.bat
19:50<@LordAro>well, "run" isn't a thing, in cmd or in msys
19:50<SimYouLater>Oh. Not sure where I got that idea.
19:50<@LordAro>luckily, you should just be able to do "./make.bat"
19:51<@LordAro>until you immediately find that the file isn't executable, anyway
19:51<SimYouLater>$ ./make.bat C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225>gcc -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o src/nutracks.nml src/nutracks.pnml src/nutracks.pnml:11:10: fatal error: src/compatibility.pnml: No such file or directory #include "src/compatibility.pnml" ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ compilation terminated. C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225>nmlc src/nutracks.nml 'nmlc' is not recognized as an internal o
19:52<@LordAro>it's now trying to preprocess the pnml file into an nml file
19:52<@LordAro>only it's missing all the other files it includes
19:52<@LordAro>(and then it's also not picking up your nmlc install, but that's later)
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>SimYouLater: if you want to paste multiple lines, you can use
19:55<SimYouLater>So what do I do to keep going?
19:56<@LordAro>find the files that are missing, probably
19:57<+glx> _STL_VERIFY(_Off == 0 || _Ptr, "cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator");
19:57<SimYouLater>The files aren't missing. compatibility.pnml is in the src folder.
19:57<+glx>this assert doesn't feel good
19:57<+glx>let's retry to trigger it
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>SimYouLater: it's probably expecting to be run in a different folder?
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>SimYouLater: try "-I." or something like that
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>or "-I ."?
20:00<SimYouLater>I'm not sure how to use "-I."
20:01<SimYouLater>bash: -I.: command not found
20:01<@LordAro>edit the make.bat script
20:02<@LordAro>it's a flag for gcc so it knows where to look for files
20:02<SimYouLater>I did. I tried removing the "src/" and it gave me
20:02<SimYouLater>I changed it back. What do you need me to do?
20:04<SimYouLater>Oh. I see. Misread that.
20:05<SimYouLater>It worked. Now I just need to figure out why nmlc isn't being found?
20:06<@LordAro>right, this needs your PATH variable amending
20:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator"
20:07<@LordAro>alternatively, for a short term hack, is the nmlc executable nearby?
20:07<+glx>just another vector issue ;)
20:07<SimYouLater>Let's do it the long way.
20:08<@peter1138>I mean, there's no such error for me, but...
20:08<+glx>I'm using debug build
20:08<SimYouLater>I can't seem to find nmlc in spite of being able to compile my Iron Horse addon.
20:09<@peter1138>Me too, but not an MSVC debug build.
20:09<@LordAro>right, purely for checking that it works at all, we can run: "export PATH=/c/path/where/my/nmlc/is/installed:$PATH"
20:09<@LordAro>then rerun
20:09<+glx>it's an MSVC assert
20:09<+glx>in <vector>
20:10<SimYouLater>bash: xport: command not found
20:10<@LordAro>SimYouLater: accuracy and precision is an important part of programming and development
20:10<@LordAro>computers are not good at guessing what you want
20:11<SimYouLater>I know, I'm just not a very good programmer.
20:11<@LordAro>so look at what i told you to run, and then look at the error message
20:12<SimYouLater>'export' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
20:12<SimYouLater>I do not know what MSVC is
20:12<@LordAro>SimYouLater: also, learning when to google
20:12<@LordAro>but export being missing is.. unexpected
20:12<@LordAro>oh... you put that in the batch file, didn't you?
20:13<SimYouLater>Why do I need Visual C?!
20:13<@LordAro>run this in the msys terminal, not in the file
20:13<@LordAro>SimYouLater: you don't, there are 2 separate conversations happening here
20:13<+glx>sometimes there are more than 2 conversations ;)
20:13<SimYouLater>Fair enough.
20:14<+glx>and often a monologue ;)
20:14*LordAro sleeptime
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>do we want to make a picture-for-picture interpretation of ?
20:16<+glx>ok I need to switch to a pre vector branch to download some newgrfs
20:16<SimYouLater>LordAro: So, if export is missing, what now?
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>glx: you mean like 1.9.0?
20:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator"
20:17<@LordAro>SimYouLater: i already told you, read again
20:18<SimYouLater>I am blind for some reason. Please tell me again. God, I HATE IRC.
20:19<+glx>you are not doing it in mingw window
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>SimYouLater: in a cmd window, type "bash"
20:21<@LordAro>SimYouLater: nah, i'm asleep now
20:21<+glx>don't drag him to WSL
20:21<SimYouLater>'bash' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
20:21<+glx>LordAro: I'll try your solution
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>SimYouLater: well, then you must start a mingw window, not a cmd window
20:22<@LordAro>i like how you managed to use "mingw", a word i've not used at all so far
20:22<@LordAro>and also try to use WSL
20:22<@LordAro>in 2 lines
20:22*LordAro really actually sleep now
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>well... mingw, msys, these words are interchangable for me
20:22<SimYouLater>For **** sake, I tried it in cmd and mingw!
20:23<+glx>export definitely should work in msys window
20:24<SimYouLater>Export literally diid nothing visible in msys
20:24<SimYouLater>Even though I changed the directory with cd
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>but it didn't complain...
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>that means it "works"
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20:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator"
20:26<SimYouLater>Alright, it looks like I accidentally found RANDOM_LC_YEAR
20:26<SimYouLater>RANDOM_INTRODUCTION_YEAR(switchname, param_modern_lc_year, old_group, modern_group)
20:27<SimYouLater>What do I do with the above?
20:27<SimYouLater>Because I am done with MSYS2
20:28<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you can be helped at this point
20:28<Eddi|zuHause>because there's gonna be 20 other things where that came from
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20:30<SimYouLater>Then stop acting like it's ****ing easy to read thin text on a white background when I'm used to using Discord, which is so much easier to read.
20:31<+glx>discord uses IRC internally ;)
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>any sane IRC client will allow you to change font size and colour scheme
20:31<SimYouLater>Then why can't this IRC be a discord channel?
20:31<SimYouLater>I don't have an IRC client.
20:32<SimYouLater>I'm using the website.
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>you're in luck, there's like 2 dozen IRC clients
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20:34<Samu>all airport types on all tiles test passed!
20:36-!-tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:38<Samu>it only took me... 8 hours 10 minutes
20:40<Samu>now i wanna test that cargo production thing
20:43<Samu>oh it's already mixed in master
20:46<Samu>glx, git pr-clean 7429
20:46<Samu>to remove it?
20:46<Samu>where do I have to be? inside it or in master?
20:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built.
20:46<+glx>pr-clean without any arg
20:46<+glx>and from outside any pr branch
20:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built.
20:50<Samu>it deleted pr/3 too, I dunno where that one came from
20:50<+glx>a PR on your fork
20:51<Samu>my fork?
20:51<Samu>I don't PR there
20:52<+glx>this one
20:52<Samu>oh, interesting that was peter1138's fault then
20:53<Samu>it was rejected by truebrain
20:53<Samu>so.. uhm what to do?
20:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built.
20:55<Samu>what the heck gitgub-desktop-petern
20:56<Samu>i have no idea somebody making a PR on my repository would create all this stuff here
20:57<+glx>you may have click on the "open this file in githhub desktop" button
20:58<Samu>how do i make it go away? :(
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21:00<Samu>github-desktop-petern is under remote
21:00<Samu>how do I delete it?
21:00<+glx>the PR won't disappear, it's on github
21:01<+glx>if you want to remove the remote you need to do it from CLI I think
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21:02<Samu>nevermind, this may actually be useful
21:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator"
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21:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7424: Add: Kdtree for AirportGetNearestTown
21:48<Samu>with cargo production around patch(already in master) + $7424, it went from 800 ms to 60 ms avg. AI is looking for a location to place an airport
21:48<Samu>great gains
21:48<Samu>will 7424 ever be merged?
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22:28<Samu>ScriptTile::GetCargoProduction (8,40%)
22:29<Samu>ScriptTile::GetCargoAcceptance (7,04%)
22:29<Samu>ScriptAirport::GetNoiseLevelIncrease (9,92%)
22:31<Samu>ScriptList::RemoveItem (5,05%)
22:32<Samu>ScriptList::AddItem (5,61%)
22:33<Samu>@calc 8.4 + 7.04 + 9.92 + 9.48 + 5.05 + 5.61
22:33<@DorpsGek>Samu: 45.5
22:35<Samu>GetNoiseLevelIncrease and GetNearestTown both call AirportGetNearestTown
22:37<Samu> local noise = AIAirport.GetNoiseLevelIncrease(tile, a);
22:37<Samu> local allowed_noise = AITown.GetAllowedNoise(AIAirport.GetNearestTown(tile, a));
22:37<Samu> if (noise > allowed_noise) continue;
22:49<Samu>how about, instead of Get the noise that will be added to the nearest town if an airport was built at this tile, it was a bool that returns true or false
22:50<Samu>maybe "IsNoiseLevelAllowed(tile, airport_type)"
22:51<Samu>goal is to avoid repeating AirportGetNearestTown
22:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7427: Codechange: Use already-known distance between town and airport instead of recalculating it.
22:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7435: Fix #7433: don't use AirportSpec substitute if it's not set
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 29 00:00:33 2019