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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-03-29

---Logopened Fri Mar 29 00:00:33 2019
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00:21<Samu>I wish dark blue on the minimap was not invisible
00:22<Samu>can't tell apart from water
00:39<Samu>static const uint8 PC_WATER = 0xCA; ///< Dark blue palette colour for water.
00:39<Samu>how to make water even darker?
00:39<Samu>0xCA is not dark enough
00:43<Samu>gonna try 0xC6
00:46<Samu>perhaps a bit too dark now
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01:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker.
01:01<Samu>probably a meh PR
01:01<Samu>ok im off to bed, cyas
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02:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7437: Fix #7434: Incorrect use of vector iterator.
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03:19<andythenorth>darker blue?
03:28<andythenorth>that too
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05:23<andythenorth>did I leave?
05:23<andythenorth>oh yes, life admin
05:28<andythenorth>what cargo does an Engine Plant produce?
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06:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee opened issue #7438: Music sets (including DOS music) broken after trying other music sets
06:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7438: Music sets (including DOS music) broken after trying other music sets
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06:34<Samu>it was a DNS error
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06:35<Corns_>q about the localisation strings: do English_AU.txt and English_US.txt fallback to using strings from English.txt?
06:36<@planetmaker>Corns_, yes. Every language falls back to english.txt
06:36<@planetmaker>however, despite that, it is very much recommended to fill-in every string, even when it is exactly identical
06:36<Corns_>ah sweet, thank you :) i suspected but wasn't sure if it was intended. less work for me :)
06:37<Corns_>okay that's okay too
06:37<@planetmaker>just hit "copy" and commit. Done
06:37<@planetmaker>because it leaves an ugly "this translation is incomplete", if not filled-in :)
06:37<Corns_>that's true, thanks :)
06:37<@planetmaker>and it also makes sure that the strings are actually reviewed to fit the translation
06:38<@planetmaker>in the English cases wrt spelling
06:38<@planetmaker>and some wording
06:38<Corns_>oh yeah, with things like colour vs color
06:38<@planetmaker>and things like ... tram vs. trolley bus (?)
06:39<Corns_>HAHAHAH idk, it's trams in australia
06:39<Corns_>but yeah i get your point
06:39<@planetmaker>dunno, I'm not English speaker of any variety :P
06:39<Corns_>wait really?
06:40<Corns_>i can't tell from across the screen :p
06:40<@planetmaker>that's the beauty of IRC. And... doesn't exactly matter :)
06:41<Corns_>hahaha true
06:41<@planetmaker>(and if I were... I'd speak NZ English :P)
06:42<@planetmaker>I were || so short of emigrating there :)
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07:02<@planetmaker>please vote for a titlegame. There's not yet many votes and it's a tight race between savegames
07:02<Samu>i vote 5
07:03<@planetmaker>or more titlegames, if you like. One or more
07:03<Samu>where is the topic, i'll look at it
07:06<Samu>oh, i can has multiple choices
07:12<Samu>hmm there is no topic in the forum about it? or I can't find it
07:12<@planetmaker>there is. I just posted
07:13<@planetmaker>so should be in the "new posts" section
07:13<Samu>oh, there is TrueBrain's, but with a title like that, hard to notice
07:13<@planetmaker>it's not TBs... kamnet started it as I asked him
07:15<Samu>well i voted
07:15<Samu>first time I voted for such thing
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07:17<Samu>So 24. Mär 20:26:36 CET 2019, weird language?
07:17<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, andythenorth TrueBrain orudge blathijs also still need to vote :P
07:18<@planetmaker>well, such happens when you don't switch locale to English in commands
07:19<Samu>eh, devs are allowed to vote? :(
07:19<Samu>there are more devs than ppl voting these days, I suppose
07:19<Samu>i dunno
07:22<@peter1138>planetmaker, yes we are. We didn't make the title games, so why not?
07:24<@planetmaker>indeed... why wouldn't we vote? It's not that I favour our votes... it's just a list of votes where each bears identical weight
07:24<@peter1138>Yeah that was meant to be directed to Samu!
07:24<@planetmaker>no worries
07:24<@planetmaker>I know
07:25<@planetmaker>also frosch and Alberth still need to vote... but I cannot highlight them currently. Will any? I'll be offline tonight
07:27<@planetmaker>Samu, and by all means: feel free to motivate whoever you think should vote, too!
07:27<@planetmaker>it's not like I can do really more than ask people the way I did
07:29<Samu>ST2, tell ppl to vote for title game
07:29<Samu>in your servers stuff
07:32<Samu>what would u say to a News Feed?
07:33<Samu>in openttd itself
07:33<Samu>to advertise this kind of stuff
07:34<@planetmaker> <-- you mean like the top most posting there?
07:35<Samu>oh, or that, have that "post" also posted in-game
07:36<@peter1138>Speaking of news, how's it going with Steam?
07:36<@planetmaker>he. interesting idea. Like... factorio
07:36<@planetmaker>not going currently ...
07:36<@planetmaker>yeah :(
07:36<@planetmaker>I'm pondering whether to simply privately register it... I guess I shall do that
07:36<@peter1138>In-game updater?
07:36<@peter1138>Or that.
07:38<@peter1138>Heh, got a video on in the background, 59 ways of cooking eggs.
07:38<@peter1138>First method: Raw. In glass. As an "egg-shot"
07:39<@peter1138>Second method... same, but with Tabasco.
07:39<@planetmaker>he :P
07:39<@planetmaker>simply boiled. with a bit of ... hm...maggi?
07:39<@peter1138>Third method: Same as second but with liquor
07:40<@planetmaker>hm... ingame news feed?
07:41<@planetmaker>special one-time content served to clients from our content server to be displayed upon start-up
07:41<@peter1138>In-game or in-title screen?
07:41<@planetmaker>title screen or before title screen. I guess
07:41<@peter1138>On the title screen.
07:42<@peter1138>Add a ticker underneath the menu window.
07:42<@planetmaker>could probably be text-only. ^^ like that or so. Maybe
07:42<@planetmaker>would be good. We support URLs
07:42<@peter1138>Text with links.
07:42<@peter1138>No images, obvs
07:43<@planetmaker>we'd need to store something like a unique-ID of the content and only display it once. Or it'd be annoying, I think
07:43<@planetmaker>and it'd need an expiry date
07:43<Samu>"Recent News: blabla " just below Exit button in main menu, I would say"
07:43<@peter1138>I don't think so, just make sure there's no many items on the news feed.
07:44<@peter1138>It'd be annoying if it was an institial window.
07:44<@planetmaker>Hm. So like always display that?
07:44<@peter1138>Yeah. Also, it should be threaded so the menu appears before it bothers doing any news feed fetch
07:44<@planetmaker>I meant like an annoucement "vote for titlegame" would not make sense beyond Monday
07:44<Samu>or maybe below window title, above New Game
07:45<@planetmaker>but that could be done server-side, I guess
07:45<@planetmaker>below the existing title window or at its bottom would probably easiest to add. And least annoying to read
07:46<@peter1138>planetmaker, yes, we just remove it from the news feed.
07:46<@peter1138>News feed server-side would require extra stuff.
07:46<@peter1138>have an expiry date in the feed so openttd can filter it.
07:46<@peter1138>If you do that, then the news feed can be static.
07:46<@peter1138>Which I think would please TB.
07:46<@planetmaker>the latter is what I thought-of initially
07:47<@peter1138>yes, below main window, either just below, or near bottom.
07:49<@peter1138>I wonder what how much info the news feed needs
07:49<@peter1138>Could be just a title, expiry date, and a URL.
07:50<@peter1138>Although, expiry date would mean we need to get the current real date in openttd. Dunno if we have that anywhere.
08:13<andythenorth>'Vehicle Engines'?
08:13<andythenorth>'Vehicle Windows'?
08:13*andythenorth wodners
08:13<andythenorth>or wonders
08:19<andythenorth>16 cargos unpicks some prior assumptions :P
08:22<@peter1138>Hmm, nearly lunch time.
08:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key
08:26<andythenorth>peter1138: glad you said that
08:26<andythenorth>I was about to ask
08:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker.
08:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker.
08:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key
09:03<Samu>James103, no comprendo
09:04<Samu>how do I know if openttd is running in 32bpp?
09:06<Samu>holy crap, ship movement in abase is terribad when doing 90 turns
09:07<@peter1138>The whole thing is bad.
09:09<@peter1138>Samu, unless you try really hard, OpenTTD is always in 32bpp these days.
09:11<@peter1138>If you have newgrf developer tools on, you can press ^B to enable bounding boxes. The aBase ships are nowhere near their bounding boxes.
09:13<Samu>i don't know what James103 meant with those RGB values
09:14<Samu>i zoomed 800% a screenshot, and I see no difference between dark blue and water
09:14<Samu>is it my eyes?
09:14<@peter1138>Samu, he just posts random unnecessary stuff to the issues sometimes.
09:16<Samu>if (t == MP_WATER) return MKCOLOUR_XXXX(PC_WATER);
09:16<Samu>#define MKCOLOUR_XXXX(x) (MKCOLOUR(0x01010101) * (uint)(x))
09:16<Samu>static const uint8 PC_WATER = 0xCA; ///< Dark blue palette colour for water.
09:17<Samu>who's a color math expert ? :p
09:19<Samu>so uhm...
09:19<Samu>no idea
09:20<Samu>I'm assuming _legend_land_owners[_company_to_list_pos[o]].colour == PC_WATER
09:20<Samu>if it's dark blue
09:24<Samu>[0] is Water
09:24<Samu>[4] is Dark Blue company
09:24<Samu>colour is 202 on both :(
09:24<Samu>it's not my eyes
09:29<Samu>about newgrf industries, uhm... I need newgrfs
09:31<Samu>not sure how I'm testing that
09:31<Samu>do u know of industries that use dark blue?
09:34<Samu>uh oh... cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator
09:34<Samu>i was going to download FIRS :(
09:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key
10:00<@peter1138>Yeah I fixed that one.
10:00<@peter1138>Oh it's not merged yet.
10:02<andythenorth>Samu: FIRS is not all newgrfs
10:03<@peter1138>Map colours listed, nice.
10:06<andythenorth>we try :P
10:06<andythenorth>also all the data is there in python, so eh, why not :P
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10:21<Samu>@calc 0xca
10:21<@DorpsGek>Samu: 202
10:21<Samu>@calc 0xc9
10:21<@DorpsGek>Samu: 201
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>the blue thing always annoyed me. as i always play as dark blue
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>not that i have much need to use the company view, but...
10:24<andythenorth>the minimap has some usability issues :P
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: your industries don't have any dark blue?
10:30<andythenorth>seems not
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10:42<Samu>_colour_gradient[0][5] = 202
10:43<Samu>PC_WATER = 202
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10:43<Samu>_colour_gradient[PC_DARK_BLUE][5] = 202
10:43<@peter1138>So, er, what's the issue? Didn't you already fix it?
10:44<Samu>just wondering what's better
10:44<Samu>darker company colours or darker water
10:44<Samu>darker or brighter
10:45<@peter1138>Don't think it matters, that it was not the same colour helped.
10:46<Samu>btw it's not PC_DARK_BLUE
10:47<Samu>_colour_gradient[COLOUR_DARK_BLUE][5] = 202
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10:56<Samu>perhaps _colour_gradient[c->colour][4]
10:57<Samu>isn't a bad idea
10:57<Samu>and leave water the same
10:59<Samu>[4] matches the intensity of window title background company colour
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11:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker.
11:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker.
11:08<@planetmaker>Samu, I totally believe that the different blue is distinguishable
11:09<Samu>that screenshot is with patch applied :)
11:09<@peter1138>Samu, always good to provide a before screenshot too :-)
11:10<@planetmaker>meh... ^^ or at least a description of what a screenshot shows
11:10<@planetmaker>how can I know?
11:10<Samu>i see :8
11:10<@peter1138>Sometimes a couple of pictures explains a thousand words.
11:10<@peter1138>Like with #7426.
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11:13<@peter1138>Well damn, I can't make out company blue and water! :p
11:13<@peter1138>(I knew that anyway)
11:13<@peter1138>Actually I can't see shit now, got the sun in my eyes :(
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11:14<andythenorth>there are specific kinds of inability to distinguish some blues and greens
11:15<andythenorth>can't find the link for it
11:18<Samu>added another screenshot
11:18<Samu>for the alternative
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11:20<andythenorth>supermop_work: bonus points for adding philosophy to Friday
11:20<supermop_work>grue is a pretty interesting concept
11:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7437: Fix #7434: Incorrect use of vector iterator.
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11:21<@planetmaker>I don't think we want to change company colours
11:22<@planetmaker>well, maybe on the legend, yes... or we could change water colour in the legend
11:22<@planetmaker>which would be nicer for NewGRF authors
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11:25<andythenorth>make it less
11:26<@planetmaker>green. Algae-muddled
11:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7427: Codechange: Use already-known distance between town and airport instead of recalculating it.
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11:36<@peter1138>The RGB UI is a bit mad now :/
11:36<@peter1138>It went from ugly to overcooked.
11:36<@planetmaker>which... rgb?
11:36<@peter1138>My RGB company-colours patch.
11:37<@peter1138>I switch from 4 ugly RGB+C sliders to a hue/saturation/lightness slider, with visuals
11:37<@peter1138>It's an improvement, but doesn't really fit in to TTD-style.
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11:37<@peter1138>And also I still haven't added to the SSE blitters...
11:38<@planetmaker>hm :)
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11:40<@peter1138>They didn't exist when I originally wrote it :)
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11:43<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I will vote on all of them, okay? :D
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11:47<andythenorth>what should an Engine Plant produce?
11:48<nielsm>engine pollen
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11:50<SpComb>engine units to ship to the electric engine assembly plant
11:51<SpComb>because electric engines are fundamentally just further processed versions of combustion engines
11:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
11:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
11:51<andythenorth>powertrain :P
11:52<TrueBrain>peter1138: what are the odds backporting so close before release will bite us in the butt? Smart thing to do, or can we better leave it for 1.9.1?
11:53<nielsm>I think it's safe
11:54<nielsm>it's effectively only a display value
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11:54<nielsm>well I suppose some newgrf industries could actually rely on the value in the logic
11:55<nielsm>but that would be bad form
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11:55<TrueBrain> <- so .. do we want this? or don't we? The code for sure needs to be written better, as this is not readable .. but before I comment on that, more interested if we want this at all :D
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11:57<TrueBrain>tnx nielsm, I will backport it this weekend :)
11:58<TrueBrain>I wish I could add a "request vote" to a PR :)
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11:59<@peter1138>TrueBrain, it kinda goes away with my multi-tile-docks / newgrf dock plans.
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11:59<@peter1138>6926 that is.
12:01<TrueBrain>do we dare to say it is better to prefer that over this PR?
12:01<TrueBrain>code-quality-wise this PR is a big no-no
12:01<TrueBrain>so either I ask for that to be fixed up, or we deprecated it in favor of your work?
12:01<TrueBrain>(dare to make that guess :D)
12:02<andythenorth>maybe Engine Plant makes Engines
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12:05<nielsm>I can reveal that building a dock in dos ttd with third tile half-raised or a buoy is not allowed either
12:06<nielsm>(and aqueducts/canals/rivers did not exist in the original game)
12:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
12:06<TrueBrain>I think it is the wrong solution for the wrong problem
12:07<TrueBrain>sounds to me that it is about: can a ship enter the third tile from here
12:09<andythenorth>I was pretty -1 to that
12:09<andythenorth>I don't like these boil-the-ocean solutions
12:09<andythenorth>but I don't want to hurt feelings
12:10<@peter1138>TrueBrain, < I gotta fix that lock-tile though :p
12:10<TrueBrain>I think if the solution is what I describe, it is a fine addition. Given my assumption is right that that is the intended behaviour :)
12:11<@peter1138> < but this would be possible
12:11<@peter1138> < and of course this
12:11<nielsm>peter1138: I think it'd be better that docks explicitly specify allowed docking tiles
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12:12<@peter1138>nielsm, they will but default docks are awkward.
12:12<TrueBrain>so many draft PRs :P
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12:16<@peter1138>I need these things to remind myself I did them, sometimes :p
12:17<andythenorth>special stalebot rule for people we like?
12:17<@peter1138>My docks PR became more complex, it was nearly ready, now less so :p
12:17<TrueBrain>I marked NRT as pinned
12:17<andythenorth>I liked it
12:17<@peter1138>NRT is getting some loving tonight.
12:17<@peter1138>Scenario editor has some issues :p
12:18<nielsm> <- is there actually any interest in this as a feature?
12:19<@peter1138>But you already mentioned things in the description that need to be done, so I kinda assumed you'd be doing them? :p
12:19<TrueBrain>that is an awesome addition in my book nielsm
12:20<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> there are specific kinds of inability to distinguish some blues and greens <-- but that's why we have false-colour modes?
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: what goes into the usage rating? time spent waiting for full load? time spent travelling at not-full-speed? time spent travelling not-fully-loaded?
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12:28<nielsm>Eddi|zuHause: potential capacity = distance traveled * capacity during travel + <percentage of max speed> * capacity * time spent waiting for turn to load
12:29<nielsm>Eddi|zuHause: actual usage = distance delivered (manhattan) * cargo units delivered
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure i quite follow
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12:40<nielsm>vehicle speed only matters for the "time spent idle" calculation, which currently only activates when the vehicle is waiting for full load without getting any cargo
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12:41<nielsm>actually probably also time spent waiting for timetable departure
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12:41<Samu>I thought 6926 was so simple :(
12:42<Samu>gonna try a different way
12:42*nielsm boots up the linux laptop
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>so it'll penalize long load times, and long detours, but not waiting at red signals or general slowness?
12:44<nielsm>not as it currently is no
12:44<nielsm>but I want to include signal waiting times too
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>signal waiting times would be included if you calulated time at not-max-speed
12:45<@peter1138>That assumes your trains can run at max-speed otherwise, no?
12:46<@planetmaker>also consider that tracks are potentially speed-limited by tracks and curvature
12:46<@planetmaker>(and signals ofc)
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12:49<Eddi|zuHause>maybe for bottleneck diagnosis you also want to view the individual factors reducing the efficiency
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>like, sort the vehicle list for vehicles spending excessive time at loading
12:53<_dp_>hm, apparently this is still a thing...
12:53<_dp_>should I comment there or open a new one?
12:53<_dp_>afaict it wasn't rly fixed in r23031
12:55<@peter1138>Open a new one and reference the old.
12:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened issue #7439: Server reports CRR_AUTOCLEAN instead of CRR_MANUAL to admin port
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13:06<_dp_>can think of several bad ways to fix it and not a single good one
13:08<_dp_>hmm, moving reason to p1 would be ok I guess
13:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick dismissed a review for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
13:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
13:10<_dp_>that whole CMD_CLIENT_ID thing looks kinda questionable tho
13:12<_dp_>why is there only a special validation for client id out of all things?
13:12<_dp_>also != 0 isn't quite a proper validation either
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13:17<SimYouLater>Is anyone going to bite my head off if I try to explain track scales for a second time? A least this time I'm in a better frame of mind than I was in 2017.
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13:21<Samu>i thought I had saved the file, apparently not
13:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
13:23<Samu>so ships can't dock from mid-way into a bridge
13:24<Samu>it would be funny if it could
13:24<Samu>must be under the bridge
13:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
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13:34<SimYouLater>I'll repeat... Is anyone going to bite my head off if I try to explain track scales for a second time? A least this time I'm in a better frame of mind than I was in 2017.
13:35<Samu>what's wrong with the PR :( I simplified it
13:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
13:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
13:36<Samu>there was two ways to check for those tiles, but you were complaining about if/elses, so now I went the alternative way
13:36<Samu>end result is still the same
13:37<TrueBrain>Samu: I am not talking about the content; check your patch itself. Look at it. You forgot things. Other things are obviously incorrect
13:37<TrueBrain>so I haven't even looked at what it does
13:37<TrueBrain>pay more attention to your PRs
13:37<TrueBrain>it is not just: write something and what-ever
13:39<Samu>do you want me to fixup?
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13:39<TrueBrain>I want you to write more decent PRs
13:39<Samu>rebase, then fixup the last commit
13:40<TrueBrain>stop wasting our time with half-baked solutions and PR quality
13:40<TrueBrain>I want you to learn from the things we are teaching you
13:40<TrueBrain>we keep saying the same things over and over
13:40<TrueBrain>learn from them; that is what I want from you
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13:41<SimYouLater>I asked a question. If you're not going to answer it, then tell me.
13:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
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13:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator"
13:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7437: Fix #7434: Incorrect use of vector iterator.
13:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7427: Codechange: Use already-known distance between town and airport instead of recalculating it.
13:44<@peter1138>#7429? #7431? :)
13:45<TrueBrain>peter1138: "This may vary airport rotation" missed a word there?
13:45<@peter1138>Ooh, conflicts anyway :D
13:45<SimYouLater>Please? I just want to know that I'm not incorrect to assume there are three standards for railtype widths and that a guide might be useful, because last time I tried to catalogue them, someone told me I was dense and should shut up.
13:46<@peter1138>TrueBrain, no, just badly worded.
13:46<TrueBrain>meh; wish I could say something useful about those patches peter1138 :D No clue :)
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13:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
13:47<@peter1138>SimYouLater, please be patient, people have other things to do as well.
13:47<SimYouLater>np, sorry.
13:47<andythenorth>SimYouLater: that is such a double negative
13:47<+glx>when working on #7435 I noticed some issues with airport action 0
13:47<@peter1138>And... railtype widths? That sounds like a design decision. So not anything us developers really get involved with.
13:47<SimYouLater>Oh, "not incorrect".
13:47<andythenorth>you want somebody to tell you that nobody is telling you?
13:47<andythenorth>not really how it works :P
13:47<+glx> the comment says industries
13:48<SimYouLater>It is a design decision. It's not a standard you're required to follow, just an observation.
13:48<@peter1138>glx, :)
13:48<+glx>and more importantly
13:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #7200: Change: Allow locks under bridges
13:48<SimYouLater>But last time, Leanden got angry at me.
13:48<+glx>prop 09 is not handled later
13:48<SimYouLater>I don't want to even try unless I'm sure I don't sound like an idiot.
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13:49<+glx>even the spec says "you first need to define it by setting property 8 or 9 for it." but doesn't tell any detail about prop 09
13:50<nielsm>SimYouLater: IMO nobody should be calling anyone "idiot" or similar for trying to ask questions
13:51<psilynt_>SimYouLater I'd say if you have to ask before doing it, you already shouldn't do it
13:51<psilynt_>More of a personality thing than anything else
13:51<@peter1138>SimYouLater, also remember tt-forums isn't exactly OUR thing. obviously we post there, but we don't police it.
13:52<SimYouLater>The only reason I'm asking is so that people don't try to bite my head off. Technically, I'm allowed to post it, but people got really ****y last time and a moderator had to tell them to be constructive.
13:52<Samu>"by checking if a ship can enter the third tile from the direction the dock is in" - it doesn't need to do this. Docks have no foundations, just asking if there are water tracks in the 3rd tile is going to give the same results as it is described
13:53<SimYouLater>Whatever, I'll post it and be clear what I'm trying to do this time.
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13:53<psilynt_>SimYouLater, If you're that worried about what people think, then don't do it. I'm sure someone out there will eventually write a 16-page post about how they extracted a tapeworm through their nose and made their buggers into minecarts and people will be way more annoyed.
13:54<psilynt_>Sort of depends on how much that tapeworm looked like a train.
13:54<@peter1138>SimYouLater: stop being so sensitive :p
13:54<Samu>you can't build a dock if the rail is on the other side, on the water
13:55<Samu>no foundations
13:55<Samu>so the check it's doing now is sufficient
13:55<Samu>I tested this on those other closed PR's
13:56<Samu>if it worked there, there would be no reason not to work here too
13:56<TrueBrain>in the huge risk of repeating myself (wait, I am repeating myself): 1) write these things in the PR. 2) I am not talking about the content of the patch. I am talking about the patch itself. It needs more attention.
13:57<nielsm>as long as there is a chance peter1138's docking tiles patch (perhaps even newdocks) are going in, I think adding new special cases to dock placements is a pointless endavour since it's going to be obsoleted anyway and replaced with a better/more generic approach
13:57<TrueBrain>nielsm: did you check the latest version? It removes special cases even ;)
13:57<andythenorth>just ship docks
13:57<andythenorth>and NRT
13:57<TrueBrain>I am still +/- 0 btw :)
13:58<andythenorth>is it home time?
13:58<TrueBrain>I am just annoyed the quality of the PR is once again the debate ;)
13:58<TrueBrain>andythenorth: it is
13:58<nielsm>I'm worn out from looking at water patches
13:58<andythenorth>I should go home soon then
13:58<TrueBrain>nielsm: I fully understand :)
13:58*andythenorth wonders about a dice roll
13:58<@peter1138>I should go... oh, I did.
13:58<andythenorth>'this patch was unlucky'
13:58<TrueBrain>andythenorth: lol :)
13:58<TrueBrain>peter1138: home office? :P
13:59<@peter1138>So should I eat this Cadbury's Creme^W Oreo Egg?
13:59<@peter1138>Nah, I rode home between 17:05 and 17:35 :D
13:59<TrueBrain>I was so happy this week that in the UK the weather was as good as over here :)
13:59<@peter1138>Also, should I get fat this weekend?
13:59<andythenorth>TrueBrain: where did you go this time?
13:59<TrueBrain>sadly, I mostly go to the same place ..
13:59<TrueBrain>not in 2 months; then I am visiting a new place!
14:00<TrueBrain>happens with corp offices around the world, I guess :P
14:00<andythenorth>where next?
14:00<TrueBrain>some shitty city I never heard of
14:00<andythenorth>nice name
14:00<andythenorth>I'll look it up
14:00<TrueBrain>Milton something?
14:01<TrueBrain>like I know these things
14:01<TrueBrain>I always just end up there
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14:01<@peter1138>Milton Keynes?
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14:01<TrueBrain>sounds about right
14:01<@peter1138>Let me know when, that's 30 minutes away from me.
14:01<andythenorth>much roundabouts
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14:02<TrueBrain>somewhere early May
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14:02<andythenorth>shame it's not Swindon :P
14:02<TrueBrain>its funny; 30 minutes over here is like every place in the country you would want to visit :P
14:02<supermop_work>here 30 minutes gets me back into manhattan from brooklyn
14:02<TrueBrain>no offices near Swindon, sorry andythenorth :)
14:02<supermop_work>on a good day
14:03*andythenorth isn't in Swindon :P
14:03<andythenorth>it would just be amusing
14:03<@peter1138>Hmm, about 1h30-2h by bike, depending
14:04<andythenorth>shall I buy this train? I don't usually like this sort of train, but something about it appeals
14:04<TrueBrain>I keep asking if I can visit our offices in places like the US or Australia
14:04<TrueBrain>they keep refusing :(
14:04<andythenorth>you can visit my office in Australia :P
14:04<TrueBrain>only if you pay the trip :P
14:04<Samu>it works
14:05<nielsm>it's not whether it's works
14:05<nielsm>it's whether the code quality is good
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14:05<nielsm>code quality is more than "does it work"
14:05<nielsm>it's about maintainability
14:06<TrueBrain>and not so much about the lines of actual code .. but all the non-code involved too
14:06<TrueBrain>andythenorth: btw, I think I know a nice clean way to fix doc stuff
14:06<TrueBrain>just have to check if something already exists, or that I requires writing something very simplictic
14:06<TrueBrain>weird word
14:07<@peter1138>glx, hmm, is an airport without any layouts ever valid?
14:07<andythenorth>TrueBrain: winner :)
14:07<andythenorth>I am about to cycle home, you can make a pastebin of your plan while I cycle :)
14:08<+glx>peter1138: where ?
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14:08<Samu>multi-tile docks?
14:08<Samu>but that's not a thing yet :(
14:09<Samu>I'm not supposed to check for the tiles on the sides
14:09<@peter1138>glx, in #7429 i have a check for table >= num_table. I'm wondering if it should just be an assert, cos it should already be checked. But...
14:09<TrueBrain>I have seen how people have to cycle in the UK ... I cannot imagine anyone survives the experience ..
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14:10<Eddi|zuHause>one would wonder how people in the UK ever survive anything...
14:10<@peter1138>I have a few close-passes this afternoon.
14:10<@peter1138>Maybe I should review the video.
14:10<TrueBrain>because you don't do anything because votes keep failing? :D
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14:11<Samu>is it the comment?
14:11<@peter1138>Hmm, where's my microSD adapter :s
14:12<Samu>i'm gonna change the comment in the code, just in case it's that
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14:14<+glx>it seems original layout table is duplicated in prop 08, so looks like an airport always have a layout
14:16<Eddi|zuHause><SimYouLater> Is anyone going to bite my head off if I try to explain track scales <-- i would rather not discuss scales. too many subjective opinions waiting to happen, no objective outcome expected.
14:16<TrueBrain>to scale or not to scale, that is the question!
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14:21<TrueBrain>that moment speed is shown to you in KB/s ... :( DOWNLOAD FASTER FFS
14:21<Samu> /* Checks whether the third tile, the location where ships dock, has water tracks. */
14:21<Samu> if (GetTileShipTrackStatus(tile_cur) == TRACK_BIT_NONE) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_SITE_UNSUITABLE);
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>uh, i spent like 10 years with that
14:21<Samu>do I ommit the 4 cases ?
14:22<Samu>in the comment
14:22<TrueBrain>finally, up to 20 MB/s ... can go .. quicker ...
14:22<Samu>I hate comments
14:23<Samu> /* Ensure the location where ships dock has water tracks. */
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14:24<@peter1138>Oh... found it.
14:24<@peter1138>Right in front of me :/
14:24<TrueBrain>*Facepalm* :P
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14:24<TrueBrain>it is weekend peter1138 :)
14:24<@peter1138>Well it was behind my keyboard, and I didn't expect to be there, but still.
14:24<@peter1138>My desk is messy :(
14:25<TrueBrain>and I am hungry, but I shouldnt eat, as I am going to sport in a bit ..
14:26<@peter1138>And... I don't think the camera was on :p
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>can't possibly be as messy as mine
14:26<@peter1138>In fact, nothing recorded for a week. wtf.
14:28<TrueBrain>fail :D
14:28<TrueBrain>camera out of fuel? :P
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14:29<Samu>ok, i made a rebase
14:29<Samu>reword, fixup, fixup
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14:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
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14:30<Samu>removed the link to the forum
14:32<Samu>I thought I had it removed previously
14:32<Samu>now I understand why u so mad at me
14:32<TrueBrain>not mad; disappointed :P
14:35<Samu>that was a patch from 6 months ago :|
14:36<Samu>7424 conflicts? there was no conflits an hour ago :(
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14:40<andythenorth>so TrueBrain...?
14:44<TrueBrain>I don't work for you! :P
14:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7429: Codechange: Check airport layout would fit within map before iterating tiles.
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14:45<@peter1138>Now with less conflicts, and that dodgy wording has been amended.
14:52<andythenorth>do I have to dig up logs of you asking me to do stuff? :P
14:52<TrueBrain>yes; please waste your time on that :D
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14:55<andythenorth>ouch burnt
14:56<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I will write it out a bit more tomorrow, but very simplistic, I was thinking:
14:56<TrueBrain>a place where you can sftp a tarball with docs and a file with meta data
14:57<TrueBrain>contains at least: name and a category (stable, master, ..)
14:57<TrueBrain>that place contains a small script, picks it up, puts it on the CDN, creates index files, lists everything needed, and keep retention based on category
14:57<TrueBrain>and this is reachable by <name> or something
14:57<andythenorth>we can give it a cool name
14:57<andythenorth>or something
14:57<TrueBrain>solves many usecases, like NoAI docs, but possibly it can also work for non-docs, like OpenTTD releases
14:58<TrueBrain>as from what I remember, we just want a place that holds files for X time for us
14:58<TrueBrain>and that needs to be indexed
14:58<andythenorth>basically, coop bundles, but updated
14:58<TrueBrain>coop bundles++
14:58<TrueBrain>if we do OpenTTD releases too, we need to be able to style index.htmls that do the listing
14:58<TrueBrain>so we can put on it
14:59<andythenorth>much win
14:59<TrueBrain>means we no longer have to rebuild the website every new release
14:59<@Alberth>in true 80s style with scrolling text
14:59<TrueBrain>mostly I wonder if something like that doesn't already exists
14:59<TrueBrain>as it is just an artifact store .. just with some special rules
14:59<TrueBrain>but if not, it is really trivial to make
14:59<andythenorth>weirdly, it's probably too simple to be a product
14:59<TrueBrain>good thing is, you upload to an sftp .. we control that with private/public key or something
14:59<TrueBrain>which uploads to CDN
14:59<TrueBrain>means you don't have to care how that last part is done
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15:00<TrueBrain>anyway, off to do some sports
15:00<andythenorth>ok cool :)
15:00<TrueBrain>tomorrow we should check if this works for your requirements :)
15:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker.
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15:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker.
15:01<TrueBrain>I feel a revert coming up :P
15:01<TrueBrain>owh, yeah, I have to run :P
15:01<@peter1138>dbg: [grf] NewGRF 'ECS. Agricultural vector 1.2 (12 Jan 2012) R685' provides incorrect information
15:01<@peter1138>Where was I?
15:02<andythenorth>you were going to do NRT in SE
15:02<andythenorth>then merge it all
15:02<andythenorth>then docks
15:02<andythenorth>then vehicle variants
15:02<andythenorth>then we're fixing industry closure
15:02<andythenorth>then we have a break
15:02<andythenorth>feet up
15:02<andythenorth>cup of tea
15:04*peter1138 pointlessly rebases nrt again.
15:05<andythenorth>after we've had a break we can decide what to rek next
15:05<andythenorth>station cargo display
15:07<Wolf01>I already see the stable release message: "you'll find NRT on tomorrow's nightly"
15:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7424: Add: Kdtree for AirportGetNearestTown
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15:11<@peter1138>Hmm, unavailable railtypes are hashed out
15:13<@peter1138>So I'll make roadtypes consistent.
15:16<andythenorth>hmm Unsinkable Sam
15:16<andythenorth>anyone tried it?
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15:17<@peter1138>What is it?
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15:21<andythenorth>boats that don't suck
15:22<andythenorth>there's an Alpha on Bananaramas
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15:23<Samu> it's not expensively calculated again :(
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15:24<Samu>you said that yesterday
15:24<@peter1138>Even so, what's the problem?
15:24<Samu>it's how my AI uses it that is repeated
15:24<Samu>and still is
15:24<Samu>with that fix in
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15:25<@peter1138>Yes, but I'm not addressing your comment in a PR that's about something else.
15:25<Samu>oh ;/
15:25<@peter1138>You need to report it separately as an issue.
15:25<@peter1138>What you are talking about needs an API change, which was clearly OUT OF SCOPE of that PR.
15:26<Samu>but it's so related
15:26<@peter1138>Testing 100+ tiles for distance wasn't that expensive, but it was needless.
15:26<Samu>ok, then
15:26<@peter1138>It's not related, the PR was clearly defined.
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15:27<Samu>gonna try create that function
15:27<@peter1138>It's an API call, yes.
15:28<@peter1138>You'll need to start using AI compat 1.10 though :p
15:28<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe not.
15:29<@peter1138>Samu, can't you just try building the airport?
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15:29<@peter1138>That'll let you know if the town will allow it or not.
15:29<Samu>yes, but only if I have the money
15:30<@peter1138>If you don't have the money, why does it matter?
15:30<Samu>planning mode stuff
15:30<Samu>my AI doesn't really plan in such manner though
15:30<@peter1138>Besides, you can do a query instead of actually build.
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15:31<@peter1138>Samu, maybe add a new function "GetNoiseLevelIncreaseForTown()"
15:32<@peter1138>Then you can call AIAiport.GetNearestTown() once, and pass that in.
15:34<andythenorth>so what should the theme of FIRS Steeltown be?
15:35<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe not.
15:35<@peter1138>andythenorth, steel?
15:35<@peter1138>Hmm, which road types should be available in the scenario editor.
15:35<Samu>non tram
15:36<@peter1138>Does date matter? I think so.
15:36<@peter1138>And should TRAM be available at all?
15:36<@peter1138>I'm thinking no.
15:36<supermop_work_>any road that a town can build, SE can build
15:37<@peter1138>Ah, good point, I have the town build flag :-)
15:37<supermop_work_>publically owned tramways?
15:37<@peter1138>Which is interestingly already set for some newgrfs, as if that was going to be something.
15:37<supermop_work_>i set it in mine
15:37<Wolf01> <Samu> non tram <- why not?
15:37<andythenorth>where is Eddi|zuHause when I need him to point out my errors? :(
15:38<@peter1138>supermop_work_, when though? I only added the town-build flag a couple of months ago.
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>i'd suggest making a setting: "allow player-built infrastructure in scenario editor" that includes trams, rails, ...
15:38<Samu>town's can't build trams
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>like, neutral airports!
15:38<Samu>owner deity neither
15:38<Samu>the GS dude
15:38<supermop_work_>peter1138: i recall someone putting something like that in back in the last round of nrt activity 1-2 years ago
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure we discussed a "town build flag" for years
15:39<supermop_work_>Eddi|zuHause: yes
15:39<@peter1138>supermop_work_, yeah, that concerns me because there is nothing in the NRT code about town/road availability.
15:39<@peter1138>It makes me think the NRT that was given to me is out of date
15:39<@peter1138>OR it was unimplemented.
15:39<@peter1138>But I dunno where documentation would be.
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: just because it's not implemented doesn't mean it's not in the specs :p
15:40<@peter1138>There are no specs.
15:40<andythenorth>Wolf01 might remember
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>maybe someone DID have a vision for once :p
15:40<andythenorth>the spec is
15:40<supermop_work_>peter1138: in this channel most likely, and yes Wolf01 was doing most of the work
15:40<supermop_work_>idk if it was even implemented or just discussed
15:41<@peter1138>There's nothing in the code.
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15:43<Eddi|zuHause> <- 2010
15:44<andythenorth>Wolf01 pushed some extra branches to my old fork
15:44<andythenorth>afaik, they weren't production ready, so they weren't in the big PR
15:44<@peter1138>now you tell me
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15:46<andythenorth>they were considered scope creep at the time
15:46<@peter1138>I had to implement something for towns, there was far too many TODOs
15:47<@peter1138>Jesus christ, all these merges :/
15:47<Samu>GetNoiseLevelIncreaseForTown(what goes here?) ?
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15:48<Samu>isn't a bool saying yes or no a better approach?
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15:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
15:51<@peter1138>Anyone for #7431? :p
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15:57<andythenorth>I can't review it :P
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16:07<Samu>i need 7429 merged for peace of mind :)
16:08<Samu>dinner, afk
16:11<andythenorth>that pan
16:11<@peter1138>Yeah, awaiting review. I updated it.
16:12<@peter1138>Hmm, why is the catenary so high?
16:13<andythenorth>dunno, it's a mine railway
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i'm not making progress with rebase... i need better automated bisection
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16:23<andythenorth>if I remove an existing cargo from FIRS, will people whine?
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16:35<psilynt_>It would be nice if someone would make a realistic grain elevator.
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16:36<psilynt_>Sorry, looking at the pictures of the train next to the (coal?) pile
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16:36<Eddi|zuHause>ISR has nothing for you?
16:37<psilynt_>I dunno. Lemme look.
16:37<psilynt_>OMG yes. It has normal looking elevators.
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16:42<psilynt_>The concrete one looks good. It's missing the huge pile of unsold and rotting soybean though.
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16:46<Eddi|zuHause>just relabel it, nobody will notice
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16:54<@peter1138>Mmm, ruby chocolate
16:54<@peter1138>And somehow I'm only at 2000 carolies after dinner, cake and chocolate
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>how could you survive on that?!?
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16:56<@peter1138>Err, what, the recommended daily amount?
16:56<@peter1138>Or just dinner, cake & chocolate?
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17:02<TrueBrain>pfft, sport make me sleepy
17:02<@peter1138>Nah, I had Gu the other night.
17:02<@peter1138>That's about 5 million carolies per pot.
17:02<nielsm>no proper meal for me today, don't feel like it... just some crispbread with cheese (aged havarti)
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i meant the "recommended daily amount"
17:03<@peter1138>I had risotto with chicken and butternut squash.
17:03<@peter1138>Ah, well, I sit at a desk all day...
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>brain activity eats plenty of corollas
17:03<@peter1138>(And had about 90 minutes of cycling today, but that's not much)
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause>what were those numbers, a human body at rest uses 200W, and at heavy workout 300W?
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17:07<@peter1138>Fitbit says my cycling today is about 1100 carolies but I don't believe that.
17:08<@peter1138>(Cos I maintain weight when eating less than that)
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17:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm, something isn't right there, 200W would mean 4000 calories per day
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17:10<Eddi|zuHause>so, more like 100W
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17:17<andythenorth>hmm carolies
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17:17<andythenorth>so tasty
17:18<andythenorth>oh a PR :P
17:20<TrueBrain>or something
17:20<nielsm> that feeling when watching famous youtubers play and be bad at it :(
17:21<@peter1138>Don't merge.
17:22<@peter1138>Cos I've rebased :p
17:22<andythenorth>I didn't merge
17:23<@peter1138>Can merge once this is done.
17:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
17:23<@peter1138>If it allows it :p
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17:23<Eddi|zuHause>can i go a step backwards in a bisect, if i've accidentally said the wrong bad/good?
17:23<@peter1138>Nope, that messes up the PR :p
17:23<andythenorth>shall I start a YT channel of me playing OpenTTD? :P
17:24<@peter1138>Go for it.
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>if you want to earn big youtube money?
17:24<andythenorth>maybe I could join Yogscast
17:24<andythenorth>they're just next door
17:25<frosch123>as long as you do not start a yt channel playing tanks :)
17:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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17:28<andythenorth>so what should vehicle factory accept? :P
17:28*andythenorth having brain ache about it
17:28<@peter1138>vehicle parts
17:29<andythenorth>and vehicle bodies
17:29<nielsm>motors, plate metal, something more
17:29<andythenorth>and tyres
17:29<frosch123>plastic, batteries, electronics, tires
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17:30<andythenorth>electric cars
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17:39<Samu>I found an inconsistency
17:39<@peter1138>Uh oh
17:40<Samu>if it's off, it checks closest town via ClosestTownFromTile
17:41<Samu>if it's on, it checks clostest town via AirportGetNearestTown
17:41<Samu>this is when building airport
17:42<nielsm>is that for choosing which town to associate the station with for station sign and ratings purposes?
17:42<nielsm>you mean?
17:42<Samu>airport noise
17:42<nielsm>(i.e. for the case where you aren't joining to an already existing station)
17:42<nielsm>if that setting is off there is no airport noise
17:43<@peter1138>There's no airport noise but it still calculates it.
17:43<Samu>CmdBuildAirport, station_cmd.cpp
17:43<@peter1138>But apparently it's inconsistent.
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17:45<Samu>maybe it's fine.. must investigate better
17:45<andythenorth>what's steel used for?
17:47<Samu>I need to mimic the behaviour that is used by CmdBuildAirport for the script function I am trying to create
17:48<@peter1138>Ah, trains carrying cutlery :-)
17:49<andythenorth>master cutler
17:49<Samu>uhm, nop, it's inconsistent
17:49<Samu>always calls AirportGetNearestTown
17:49<nielsm>12/8 length flatcars with huge sporks
17:50<frosch123>itn't there a huge demand for train cars?
17:50<nielsm>and rails
17:50<andythenorth>also a constant problem in FIRS is that tertiary cargos just don't quite work
17:50<nielsm>yeah that might make sense :P
17:51<andythenorth>what are the problems with tertiary cargos...?
17:51<andythenorth>cdist can't distribute them very well
17:51<nielsm>make the company HQ accept steel rails, concrete (and/or wooden) sleepers, and railroad car parts
17:51<andythenorth>FIRS has to provide industries to accept them in town, but many towns will lack the industry
17:51<andythenorth>tertiary cargos seem kind of pointless, they have no town effect
17:52<andythenorth>maybe we can fix this!
17:53<nielsm>if town buildings had another field for building class it might be possible to have cargos define that they would usually be accepted by certain building classes
17:53<@peter1138> < that ui :/
17:53<nielsm>so town sets could define supermarkets, hardware stores, furniture stores, ets
17:54<andythenorth>peter1138: thing of beauty
17:54<nielsm>you seem to be scheming something lol
17:54<andythenorth>nielsm: it's an idea
17:54<@peter1138>andythenorth, it's a lot easier to pick colour with that hue bar.
17:54<andythenorth>what if newgrf could control town growth?
17:55<@peter1138>They can?
17:55<nielsm>not really no
17:55<andythenorth>I thought that was removed?
17:55<nielsm>a cargo can define how it affects town growth
17:55<nielsm>I'm pretty sure that's the only thing
17:55<@peter1138>Pretty sure TaI affects town growth.
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17:56<nielsm>when are we getting vector station sign facility icons?
17:57<andythenorth>can't see an VA2 for cargo delivered to towns
17:58<_dp_>andythenorth, god no, it's probably the reason gs is not entirely useless
17:58<nielsm>imo something like town growth should be controlled by GS, with newgrf at most providing hints the GS can access
17:58<_dp_>andythenorth, controlling towns is pretty much the only thing it can do :p
17:59<andythenorth>I have nothing
17:59<andythenorth>I don't use GS for that
17:59<andythenorth>GS is for goals
17:59<andythenorth>not behaviour
17:59<_dp_>andythenorth, and everything else it can't. coz newgrfs %)
17:59<andythenorth>I should try to write a GS
17:59<nielsm>a goal with no reward is pointless
18:00<andythenorth>I pretty much failed last time though
18:00<nielsm>the reward for a goal should be possible to be like "town grows faster"
18:00<andythenorth>does a goal need a reward?
18:00<_dp_>andythenorth, grfs are for sprites! not behaviour :p
18:00<andythenorth>yeah right
18:00<andythenorth>I forgot
18:00<andythenorth>quick, delete all the industry newgrf spec
18:01<andythenorth>I just can't make sense of 'to fix FIRS, I must now write a GS'
18:01<andythenorth>how can I even force people to use it?
18:01<andythenorth>can it be enforced as a dependency?
18:02<nielsm>thematically, a GS should be able to implement a wide variety of goal-based scenarios where the story of the scenario progresses based on player actions, and the world changes/progresses to match the story
18:02<andythenorth>it can do that already
18:02<andythenorth>just nobody wants to write those GS
18:03<nielsm>how should an industry control for GS look?
18:03<andythenorth>it shouldn't
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18:03<andythenorth>it's not the domain of GS
18:03<nielsm>a GS that e.g. needs a way to have an industry change production level (or not change production level)
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18:04<andythenorth>monkey patch the monthly and random prod. cb
18:04<nielsm>"the improved living standards in barfingville leads to the coal mine prospering"
18:05<andythenorth>I might just do that in newgrf
18:05<andythenorth>I think that with 256 registers, I can now do it
18:06<andythenorth>depends what I can measure in the town
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18:07<andythenorth>I am not -1 to GS, I use it in every game
18:07<nielsm>well, can you measure that the player has successfully built a train station and four bus stops and is now transporting 300 passengers a month?
18:08<andythenorth>I can measure population
18:08<andythenorth>over several months
18:08<andythenorth>and I won't have to piss around with saveload code in GS
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>industry can query the related town with PARENT?
18:08<andythenorth>256 registers is quite a lot
18:09<andythenorth>if the 80+ vars aren't lies, I can track pax and mail etc
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18:10<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, those exist, i've just seen that code
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18:11<andythenorth>hmm this is a long way from 'uses for steel cargo' :)
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: maybe that part could use a 40+ var for "fraction of GS goal achieved" or something like that
18:12<@peter1138>vector station sign facility? eh?
18:12<@peter1138>Oh you want a custom TTF?
18:13<nielsm>peter1138 something like that yes
18:13<nielsm>should totally add a way to put truetype outlines in GRF files tho
18:13<@peter1138>I'm not sure we have the ability to use a different font depending on glyph.
18:14<andythenorth>svg? :P
18:14<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that's an interesting idea :)
18:15<andythenorth>there was town permanent storage proposed
18:15<nielsm>svg is a pretty bad idea
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>ttf has probably a bit more data than svg?
18:15<frosch123>juanjo had a svg patch
18:15<andythenorth>the current fashion in web design is to declare font glyphs bad and svg good
18:16<andythenorth>that rotates every few years, because fashion
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i don't think we move at that level :p
18:16<andythenorth>well no
18:16<Samu>testing this:
18:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buttercup5 opened issue #7440: Crash when trying to delete town in scenario editor
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18:16<Samu>first half in openttd code
18:16<andythenorth>it's really fun doing the primary -> secondary parts of an industry chain
18:17<Samu>second half via an AI
18:19<andythenorth>oof sleep
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18:19<Samu>perhaps i should apply my 7424 to speed up
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>he falls asleep fast?
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>whenever i say "i should sleep", it's a guarantee that i'm still here in 4 hours
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18:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7440: Crash when trying to delete town in scenario editor
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18:25<psilynt_>Dumb newb question - is there a way to lower the amount of money received for everything by a set percentage?
18:27<_dp_>psilynt_, no, but you can increase prices with basecost newgrf
18:29<Samu>so it begins...
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18:32<Samu>ops wrong starting year, restarted in 2003
18:34<@peter1138>What's this, your new low-CPU API call?
18:34<Samu>just asserting
18:39<Samu>considering initially I was getting about 2700 ms avg
18:39<Samu>much has improved already
18:39<Samu>from a few days ago
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18:42<Samu>for all industries + valuators + for all towns
18:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #5730: Autoreplace - remove wagon is global not local
18:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6562: Stations: extended byte for NewStation ID
18:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #7041: Cargo flow legend not fully redrawn when station sign is moved
18:54<Samu>7424 and 7429
18:54<Samu>+ the one that's already in master + the other from yesterday
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18:55<@peter1138>I don't think anything in master needs to be reviewed and merged :p
18:56<Samu>started iterating metropolitan
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18:57<Samu>number 3
18:58<Samu>linkgraph is cargodist related?
18:58<Samu>i don't use that one
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18:59<SimYouLater>Hi. Can long-timers please look at and tell me whether or not I'm describing something real, or if it's useful?
19:00<SimYouLater>Last time I tried to post this, Leanden got angry at me for wasting people's time.
19:02<@peter1138>Yeah, no, people draw whatever scale they want.
19:03<@peter1138>I guess if you want to document what people have already drawn, then that's great.
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19:05<SimYouLater>peter1138: "This is a guide, not a rulebook. You can do whatever you want when making railtypes! However... There are three trends that can be considered "scales" in the same way model trains have scales. This guide shows what these scales are and what other NewGRFs use them, so that you can try to match your graphics to the graphics of other NewGRFs."
19:05<@peter1138>Fine :p
19:06<SimYouLater>I never said there were rules. I said there were trends. Trends that could be useful to follow if you've never made a tracktype before.
19:06<@peter1138>So you post a piece of information. What's the problem?
19:06<Samu>ehm, i'm not much into trains
19:06<Samu>or graphics, even
19:06<SimYouLater>"Could" be useful. Are they?
19:07<Samu>just sticky it!
19:07<SimYouLater>Because I've been told by someone angrily that it's not useful.
19:08<SimYouLater>Leanden. About two years ago.
19:09<@peter1138>Yeah, you know, nobody really cares? You don't need to seek validation all the time. We just get on with stuff.
19:09<SimYouLater>Alright, fair enough. I just wondered why someone did care in a way that was horribly negative.
19:10<@peter1138>Ignore negative people
19:10<@peter1138>And don't hold grudges.
19:11<SimYouLater>Alright. Thank you.
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19:11<@peter1138>Bah, HasBit() doesn't work with enum class :/
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19:28<Samu>I have a weird question
19:28<Samu>why is assert() without a space between assert and ()
19:31<@peter1138>Why would it have a space?
19:32<@peter1138>It's not a keyword.
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19:35<Samu>or why it isn't Assert()
19:35<Samu>or ASSERT()
19:35<Samu>it's not a keyword
19:35<Samu>googles keyword
19:39<Samu>can GS change game settings ?
19:39<Samu>while running in a game
19:39<Samu>it would be interesting
19:40<Samu>regression can't test this
19:40<Samu>station_noise_level on and off in the same game
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19:46<Eddi|zuHause>oha, i found a commit in trunk that was cherry-picked from YACD :p
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>and i still can't check if it actually compiles
19:47<@peter1138>Actually cherry-picked?
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>well, slightly modified
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>and i'm still in commits from 2011
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think this is the fastest approach to rebasing :p
19:57<Samu>test successful!, this was with station_noise_level off
20:01<Samu>im afraid station_noise_level on may assert, because it's a living world, towns can grow or shrink in a tick
20:01<Samu>cross fingers
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20:39<Eddi|zuHause>ok, i think i managed to automate the bisection :)
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21:06<Eddi|zuHause>oh, this looks like another cherry pick
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21:37<Samu>peter1138, I just had a weird idea
21:37<Samu>some kind of fps auto-balance for scripts
21:37<Samu>now that there's a frame rate
21:38<Samu>a self-adjusting #opcodes to maintain playable frame rates
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21:48<Samu>test successful!, this was with station_noise_leve on
21:48<Samu>no asserts! kinda suspicious
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22:26<Samu>look at all those gains!
22:28<Samu>went all the way down from 1720 ms avg to 52 ms
22:28<Samu>@calc 1720 / 52
22:28<@DorpsGek>Samu: 33.0769230769
22:29<Samu>the biggest benefactor was still that CargoProductionAround patch
22:29<Samu>that alone
22:29<Samu>about 10 times faster
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22:31<Samu>the difference between using valuators and not using it is shown in the same openttd version
22:31<Samu>@calc 1720 / 631
22:31<@DorpsGek>Samu: 2.72583201268
22:32<Samu>@calc 121 / 52
22:32<@DorpsGek>Samu: 2.32692307692
22:32<Samu>valuators would be nice to use if they didn't degrade playability so much
22:34<Samu>and finally, IsNoiseLevelAllowed vs old_method gains weren't all that impressive in a real usage
22:35<Samu>@calc 62 / 52
22:35<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1.19230769231
22:35<Samu>meh 19%
22:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee commented on issue #7438: Music sets (including DOS music) broken after trying other music sets
22:41<Samu>@calc 1720 / 121
22:41<@DorpsGek>Samu: 14.2148760331
22:41<Samu>@calc 631 / 62
22:41<@DorpsGek>Samu: 10.1774193548
22:42<Samu>yep, 10-14 times faster
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23:05<Samu>kdtree with perimeter is impressive on smaller maps
23:06<Samu>256x256 is now more like a tie
23:07<Samu>without perimeter it was worse
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23:38<Samu>ScriptTile::GetCargoProduction (9,81%)
23:38<Samu>ScriptTile::GetCargoAcceptance (8,21%)
23:39<Samu>ScriptAirport::IsNoiseAllowed (10,77%)
23:39<Samu>ScriptList::RemoveItem (5,81%)
23:40<Samu>ScriptList::AddList (6,13%)
23:40<Samu>@calc 9.81 + 8.21 + 10.77 + 5.81 + 6.13
23:40<@DorpsGek>Samu: 40.73
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23:58<supermop_Home_>this brand new LP has a lot of pops on it
---Logclosed Sat Mar 30 00:00:27 2019