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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-03-30

---Logopened Sat Mar 30 00:00:27 2019
---Daychanged Sat Mar 30 2019
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02:36<@peter1138>Well, bollocks. Another drive failure.
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03:08-!-nielsm is "Niels Martin Hansen" on #openttd
03:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag
03:21<nielsm>I need a better window manager/desktop environment for my linux machine, this gnome junk takes way too much of the valuable vertical space
03:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7337: Audio driver crash on quit - fluidsynth/SDL
03:39<nielsm>hmm why does the SDL driver suggest tiny tiny resolutions...
03:39<nielsm>the game would not really be playable in 320x200
03:39<nielsm>(have anyone made a "tinybase" set?)
03:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7442: Change: [SDL] Do not offer video smaller than 640x480
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03:53<@LordAro>nielsm: i suspect the audio crash stuff is to do with the changes i made for c3bc7d6
03:54<@LordAro>i slightly changed the sdl initialisation/destruction stuff
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03:55*LordAro is in De Nederland today
03:56<nielsm>LordAro: the mixer should probably stop running if audio has been deinited
03:58<nielsm>also, this is so much better, LXDE with theme adjusted to use smaller fonts
03:59<nielsm>no reason to go above size 9 when on 1366x768 on a 13" display
04:01<@LordAro>nielsm: i'd refine that to be "mixer should be stopped before audio is deinited"
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04:04<andythenorth>not sleep
04:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7253: Fix #7189: Fluidsynth volume gain too high
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04:23<andythenorth>Vehicle Bodies, Vehicle Powertrain, Vehicle Glass, Electrical Machines, Tyres -> Assembly Plant -> Vehicles
04:24<andythenorth>Steeltown starts looking more like Motor City :(
04:24<andythenorth>also, why not also Paint, Textiles, Plastic Parts -> Assembly Plant?
04:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker opened pull request #7443: Add: Titlegame for 1.9 branch. Savegame by JGR
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05:05<TrueBrain>as I cannot really judge if the content is correct, can any of you: ?
05:05<TrueBrain>patch-wise it still lacks a few comments, but no functions in that file really has comments, so I guess we can let that slip :P
05:06<andythenorth>TrueBrain: honestly that PR wastes so much time in discussion for so little result
05:06<TrueBrain>andythenorth: that is called a teaching process, sadly
05:06<@planetmaker>would be a good occasion to actually add comments
05:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7443: Add: Titlegame for 1.9 branch. Savegame by JGR
05:06<@planetmaker>then it definetely would add value
05:07<andythenorth>but then we smack samu down for scope creep
05:07<TrueBrain>but the real line of code that is changed here me it sounds correct; in testing it looks correct
05:07<TrueBrain>just wondering if I am missing anything
05:07<@planetmaker>hehe, true andythenorth
05:08<andythenorth>learning to program in an open source irc environment is almost impossible
05:08<TrueBrain>for a stackoverflow kiddie it has to be hell
05:08<andythenorth>on any given day here I can be told I am over-engineering stuff, or that I don't have enough engineering
05:08<andythenorth>and I have been programming for 36 years
05:09<TrueBrain>funny; I just became 36 years old (2 days ago) :P
05:09<andythenorth>first thing I coded TrueBrain was you
05:09<TrueBrain>I dont want to say you are old, but .... :P
05:09<andythenorth>you are living in my simulation
05:09<TrueBrain>that would explain SO MUCH honestly
05:09<andythenorth>if your life is improving, it's because I wasn't good at all when I started
05:10<andythenorth>my first programe was something like
05:10<andythenorth>10 array ('swearword1', 'swearword2' etc)
05:10<andythenorth>20 print rnd(array)
05:10<andythenorth>30 goto 20
05:10<andythenorth>that's how TrueBrain began life tbh
05:11<TrueBrain>FU :P
05:11<andythenorth>original method still exists, see ^
05:11<andythenorth>I should refactor it out
05:12<andythenorth>the problem with 6926 is really, 'why bother at all'
05:12<TrueBrain>how do we want to do the release .. do I make a commit to disable assert and tag that, outside of branch (like old releases)
05:12<andythenorth>it solves a problem I never had
05:12<TrueBrain>or do I commit, release, revert?
05:12<TrueBrain>andythenorth: not my question, not the argument I am going to have :)
05:12<TrueBrain>I want to know if the code line itself is correct
05:13<@planetmaker><andythenorth> the problem with 6926 is really, 'why bother at all' <-- that's subjective... some care about this, some about that
05:13<@planetmaker>so... in doubt: scratch as many itches as we can
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05:20<andythenorth>TrueBrain: any reason to change from old way to release?
05:20<TrueBrain>having a detached tag is not git-like
05:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #7443: Add: Titlegame for 1.9 branch. Savegame by JGR
05:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
05:22<@planetmaker>as to release... hm... preferentially it'd just be a different build image it is built upon
05:22<@planetmaker>then no code change is needed. After all it's just build option which change
05:22<TrueBrain>those 2 options I gave are on the table
05:22<TrueBrain>no others
05:22<TrueBrain>(not for 1.9)
05:23<@planetmaker>probably commit, release, revert would be my approach. +0.1 :P
05:23<TrueBrain>its all a bit meh ..
05:24<@planetmaker>you can leave-out the revert basically...
05:24<@planetmaker>only releases will be built from it - or?
05:24<TrueBrain>hmm .. only if we don't do a beta for 1.9.1
05:24<TrueBrain>which is unlikely, given our history
05:24<TrueBrain>so you are right
05:24<@planetmaker>we only do -rc for bug-fix releases. If at all
05:25<TrueBrain>yeah, so lets not for the 1.9 serie :D
05:25<@planetmaker>and we can revert that for that, if we want
05:25<TrueBrain>I doubt we will have a 1.9.1 tbh .. only if we fucked up
05:25<TrueBrain>that part, we will forget, I promise you :D
05:25<@planetmaker>dunno... maybe we do
05:25<@planetmaker>we didn't have 1.8.1 because we had not CI
05:25<@planetmaker>or no CF at all
05:25<@planetmaker>and no established work-flow for patches etc
05:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7444: Backport 1.9
05:25<@planetmaker>it's much more active now
05:26<TrueBrain>yeah ... that is why I think we won't have a 1.9.1 :)
05:26<andythenorth>1.10 all the way
05:32<@planetmaker>that rather tells me there'll be a 1.9.1 :)
05:32<Wolf01>So, for this year no april fool? Too many fake news?
05:33<@planetmaker>hehe, Wolf01
05:34<TrueBrain>can someone quickly review my backport PR? :)
05:34<nielsm>fear me, remover of lines of code
05:34<TrueBrain>after that I have a PR that does 1.9.0; means we only have to backport translations just before we do
05:35<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, are there not more fixes worth to backport?
05:35<@planetmaker>(I didn't look... just asking)
05:36<TrueBrain>nobody marked any, so I think not
05:38<TrueBrain>nielsm: needs backporting or is it fine as it is?
05:38<@planetmaker>I'm not convinced that reasoning is sound :P
05:39<nielsm>you mean my want to fix the fix?
05:39<nielsm>since irc the 1.9 branch was made after that PR was merged
05:40<andythenorth>with 2 days to go, I wouldn't be changing much more :P
05:40<TrueBrain>your comment made my search go weird :P
05:40<TrueBrain>sorry nielsm :D
05:40<andythenorth>there's always 1.9.1 :P
05:40<TrueBrain>planetmaker: feel free to validate ;) But I expect people who merge stuff to mark PRs as "needs backporting" if it does :)
05:40<TrueBrain>(and so far everyone has been :P)
05:41<TrueBrain>but if we have everything backported, is more a question for sunday night :D
05:42<@planetmaker>4feea8d (file list scrolling)
05:42<_dp_>probably needs backport:
05:42<TrueBrain>ask the authors
05:42<TrueBrain>or the mergers
05:42<TrueBrain>naming them in here might not give the result you expect :)
05:42<_dp_>is non-rect in 1.9 though?
05:43<_dp_>ah, ok, nvm then
05:44<nielsm> this is probably more of a 1.9.1 thing if at all?
05:44<TrueBrain>I wouldn't at all, honestly
05:45<TrueBrain>but please review of my PR? Means I can continue? :D (we can debate what more to backport till sunday evening)
05:45<@planetmaker>I wouldn't 7401 at all
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05:51<nielsm>bye, going to enjoy some spring weather
05:51<TrueBrain>bye :)
05:51<TrueBrain>does nobody dare to approve it? :(
05:51<TrueBrain>these kind of things really block workflow sometimes .. :P
05:51<andythenorth>if no-one else does, I might :P
05:51<andythenorth>TrueBrain: sometimes a "really trust me" button would be helpful on GH
05:51<TrueBrain>there is nothing in there that was done manual ..
05:51<andythenorth>I can offer that as a service :P
05:52<TrueBrain>normally I leave on that an admin can overwrite the requirement for approval
05:52<TrueBrain>exactly for these reasons :)
05:53<TrueBrain>for OpenTTD we disabled that too .. but that does mean I sometimes need someone to hit a tiny button for the automation to continue :)
05:53<TrueBrain>guess I should allow this automation to overrule review ..
05:53<andythenorth>which PR? 7444?
05:53*andythenorth checks actual contents
05:54<andythenorth>is the 'to backport' label now cleared from PRs?
05:54<andythenorth>yeah ok
05:54<andythenorth>now it's 'backported'
05:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth approved pull request #7444: Backport marked PRs to 1.9
05:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7444: Backport marked PRs to 1.9
05:56<TrueBrain>*fixes stupid rebase bug in script*
05:56<TrueBrain>HA! :D
05:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7445: Update: Changelog for 1.9.0 and prepare for release
05:57<TrueBrain>right .. that prepares monday early morning, I think
05:58<TrueBrain>hopefully frosch drops by to validate we are doing the right thing here :D
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06:02<andythenorth>then we can make nml2 !!
06:02<andythenorth>and a new website
06:02<andythenorth>and bananas99 !!
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06:46<@peter1138>Hmm, only 50 miles this morning, well, LordAro will be beating me again.
06:49<@peter1138>So I tried using enum class, but HasBit() fails with it :(
06:49<@LordAro>peter1138: i did 85 yesterday, and doing the same today :)
06:49<@LordAro> might be slightly in de nederlands
06:50<@peter1138>Wait, you're doing 85 today... and it's 10:50 already.
06:50<@LordAro>currently eating some appletart
06:50<@peter1138>Oh you
06:50<@LordAro>25 miles in
06:50<@peter1138>You are mid-ride and on IRC. That is dedication.
06:50<@LordAro>the paths are absolutely glorious
06:50<@peter1138>And I'm jealous :(
06:51<@LordAro>i mean, it's right here
06:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
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07:38<andythenorth>can't top that
07:38<andythenorth>I wish the author of FIRS would stop adding cargos
07:39<Pikka>so inconsiderate
08:05<andythenorth>maybe I should stop :P
08:06<Pikka>128 cargos?
08:08<andythenorth>mumble mumble fix towns
08:08<andythenorth>and town cargos
08:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key
08:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #7131: Possible GS issues in Scenario Editor
08:32*peter1138 returns.
08:33<@peter1138>Apparently confirmation is the end of the world.
08:38<andythenorth>I am closing that
08:38<andythenorth>essays aren't needed
08:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key
08:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key
08:39<@peter1138>Eh, the issue itself is valid :p
08:42<andythenorth>so is not writing mini-essays
08:45*andythenorth has gone power mad
08:45<andythenorth>take my edit rights away
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09:10<@peter1138>What was I doing?
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09:11<@peter1138>Was I fixing NRT?
09:17<@peter1138>Remove tram button from scenario editor?
09:21<Wolf01>I still can't understand why tram rails in SE are so wrong... if I want to make a scenario with pre-built tram rails?
09:22<@peter1138>Wolf01, I'm not sure they are, hence why I've asked.
09:22<Wolf01>Tram rails are just roads
09:24<Wolf01>Player might not be able to build them, lacking of vehicles, wrong year, but that is for road too
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09:40<@peter1138>That's a bit...
09:41<Wolf01>It's like when you miss a where clause in SQL
09:41<andythenorth>it's nice
09:41<andythenorth>'oof' is FIRS Steeltown
09:41<@peter1138>It should ignore powered-on status
09:41<andythenorth>and how to end the chains
09:42<Wolf01>That little tram icon on the vehicle list is really nice
09:47<andythenorth>meh, Steeltown is _nearly_ good :P
09:47<andythenorth>something is off, and solo play-testing isn't showing what
09:47<Wolf01>Time to wreck it
09:48<andythenorth>I make a .tar, someone can try it
09:49<andythenorth>version number is '1' for lolz reasons :P
09:50<andythenorth>Steeltown economy works, needs some new industry & cargo graphics
09:51<andythenorth>everything is good in the Blast Furnace chain, until steel is produced, then it's meh
09:51<andythenorth>and the Electric Arc Furnace chain is just meh, I never use it
09:51<andythenorth>needs very recent OpenTTD also
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10:24<@peter1138>^ More useful...
10:25<@peter1138>Now, maybe it should not show the hidden ones.
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10:30<Wolf01>Or at least not show duplicates
10:31<@peter1138>They are not duplicates, they are road types which haven't bothered setting that string.
10:42<@LordAro>peter1138: appletart 2
10:42<@peter1138>^ Better.
10:43<@peter1138>LordAro, nice. I need to stop snacking. Just had some biltong
10:43<@peter1138>At least that is low carolie and high protein.
10:44<@LordAro>(50 miles)
10:44<@peter1138>35 to go!
10:45<@LordAro>traffic in delft & the hague was pretty miserable. very stop start
10:47<@LordAro>beatuiful weather though
10:47<@LordAro>the sort where you can feel yourself burning
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11:00<andythenorth>so should FIRS provide houses?
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11:01<@peter1138>Do it like ECS? Separate GRF for town houses.
11:02<andythenorth>it's an idea
11:02<andythenorth>might be retrograde? Currently FIRS provides town industries
11:02<andythenorth>removing those, and having a separate town grf leaves most economies broken
11:03*andythenorth trying to fix towns
11:04<andythenorth>dunno what the problem is yet :P
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11:09<@peter1138>What's a town industry? Town buildings that accept cargo other than passengers, mail & goods?
11:10<@peter1138>You could keep that separate.
11:10<Samu>i think banks
11:10<@peter1138>No, banks are actual industries.
11:12<Samu>i'm in a dilema
11:13<Samu>about 6926. If I do what PeterN tells me, TrueBrain will tell I ignored him
11:14<@peter1138>How so?
11:15<TrueBrain>indeed: how so?
11:15<Samu>Using GetTileTrackStatus directly, would mean TrueBrain's requests go unnatended
11:16<andythenorth>open source is hard eh :P
11:16<TrueBrain>what request would that be?
11:16<TrueBrain>where ever did I tell you to use an exact function?
11:16<Samu>peter did
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11:17<TrueBrain>*finds a towel*
11:17<Samu>but I want to learn
11:17<Samu>erm, do what you're telling me, as an exercise
11:17<TrueBrain>I would suggest starting to learn to make sense .. as .. you are confusing as fuck currently
11:18<@peter1138>I suggested a function. Did TB suggest a different function?
11:19<andythenorth>let's talk about something else :P
11:19<@peter1138>Hmm, we don't have many colours available for tile selection highlight.
11:19<TrueBrain>I have plastic and rubber
11:19<TrueBrain>lots of it
11:20<@peter1138>Is kinda confusing.
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11:20<TrueBrain>what am I looking at?
11:20<@peter1138>Exactly ;)
11:21<@peter1138>TrueBrain, highlighting existing station coverage area when building an adjoining station part.
11:21<TrueBrain>holy crap :P
11:21<@peter1138>The cursor is invisible :p
11:21<andythenorth>TrueBrain: what are you going to do with plastic and rubber
11:21<TrueBrain>make super computers currently
11:21<@peter1138>(If you have coverage area highlight off, it's not visible, of course)
11:22<Samu>shouldn't the coverate of bus stations be 3 radius?
11:22<@peter1138>I'd like to show the existing and new coverage parts in different colours.
11:22<@peter1138>Samu, it is.
11:22<Samu>oh, sorry, I see now, I'm blind
11:23<@peter1138>The bare white square is where the cursor is, and is where the new station part would be.
11:23<andythenorth>it's a work of art
11:23<@peter1138>I... kinda think it's useful. But I don't know.
11:24<@peter1138>Damn, company colours can't be used in this instance.
11:24<andythenorth>so town industries are black hole destinations
11:24<andythenorth>for cargos like alcohol, food, building materials, vehicles
11:24<andythenorth>FIRS provides them as industries because :P
11:24<@peter1138>Town houses, yes.
11:25<@peter1138>Vehicles... no.
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the player can remove houses, but they cannot provide station names. and if the houses are not coded to stay put it makes delivery annoying
11:25<andythenorth>doing them as industries limits how many appear on the map, because industry limits
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: those are things to consider
11:25<andythenorth>ultimately, for whatever reason, distributing these town cargos is really boring gameplay
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and i'd keep the houses in the industry set
11:25<andythenorth>and is the most broken part of FIRS
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>i think you're exaggerating
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: don't do it like ECS, where you need two fuel stations in range, but they're jumping around constantly
11:26<@peter1138>Should I be able to view the coverage area of other company's stations?
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>i don't want to play whack-a-mole with stations
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: sure, why not?
11:27<andythenorth>so Eddi|zuHause, in the TL;DR version, you're +1 to implementing as houses?
11:27<andythenorth>not industries?
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: not really
11:28<andythenorth>me neither TBH
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>make it a parameter! :p
11:29<@peter1138>Aren't they already town "houses"?
11:29<andythenorth>not in FIRSes
11:29<@peter1138>They're a prime candidate for food/alcohol type stuff.
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but they don't have special properties
11:29<andythenorth>there aren't any of the supermarkets in FIRSes
11:29<andythenorth>you get whatever town buildings the baseset or house newgrf provides obv.
11:29<andythenorth>and some support FIRS cargos and some don't
11:31<andythenorth>it's kind of weird dumping trainloads of food into a 1-tile general store
11:31<Samu>I think you meant TrackStatusToTrackBits, not GetTileTrackStatus
11:32<andythenorth>and there's no real upside to delivering these cargos anyway
11:32<andythenorth>except ££
11:32<andythenorth>which is the least interesting goal
11:32<@peter1138>Samu, no I didn't.
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>that's more a cargodist problem than a FIRS problem, though
11:32<andythenorth>except in snow / desert, none of them affect town growth etc
11:32<Samu>then it's me, not understanding what I'm being told
11:32<@peter1138>Samu, I didn't say "USE THIS FUNCTION", I meant "isn't this a better candidate"?
11:32<andythenorth>"but andythenorth simply write a GS" sounds like a $1 solution to $0.02 problem
11:33<@peter1138>If you have to go un-inlining elsewhere, that's usually wrong. Might not be.
11:33<andythenorth>options I thought of so far:
11:33<andythenorth>- use houses not industries
11:33<@peter1138>Are there any other tile-highlight styles?
11:33<andythenorth>- have a big 'warehouse' type industry
11:33<andythenorth>- have acceptance limits
11:34<andythenorth>peter1138: there are some in JGR
11:34<@peter1138>That's... Hmm.
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>none of that solves the "Cargodist is rubbish for few-sources-many-destinations"
11:34<@peter1138>Maybe the existing coverage area could flash?
11:34<andythenorth>like industries in mini-map?
11:35<Samu>the un-inline was because linux compilers over there were giving warnings
11:35<@peter1138>(Urgh, lots of MarkTileDirtyByTile())
11:35<@peter1138>andythenorth, yeah.
11:35<_dp_>from cb pov indusries as houses a royal pita
11:35<@peter1138>Samu, well they would, it's inline...
11:35<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: can we document exactly why cargodist sucks for that?
11:35<Samu>warnings about inline
11:35<Samu>damn, let me explore
11:36<@peter1138>One day you'll understand what static and what inline mean, I guess.
11:36<andythenorth>we need a #openttd-samu
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11:36<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: two main reasons: a) cargodist doesn't provide any incentives to provide more destinations, b) the distance-effect-on-demand is counterproductive
11:37<andythenorth>b) is irrelevant if you're using FIRS
11:37<andythenorth>a) is relevant
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11:37<Eddi|zuHause>how is b irrelevant?
11:37<andythenorth>if you have cdist on for freight cargos, FIRS requires distance effect to be 0%
11:37<andythenorth>otherwise it's not possible to deliver supplies
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>there's also a c) you need to generate smaller cargopackets per production cycle to deliver to more destinations
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's backwards.
11:38<andythenorth>there's also d) you can't reliably deliver to more than 2 destinations from a single pickup station with cdist
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you require distance effect to be 0 because of b)
11:38<andythenorth>ok, no argument
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's aduplicate of b+c
11:38<andythenorth>no, it's slightly different
11:39<andythenorth>cargo won't be allocated to a 3rd route for months, or years, or never
11:39<Samu> how do I explore previous build attempts from the same PR?
11:39<andythenorth>it's liable to be a bug, or perhaps d)
11:39<andythenorth>c) sorry
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't witnessed that effect
11:39<Samu>are they still logged?
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>at least not with 3 destinations
11:39<andythenorth>bet I can trigger it now in my game
11:40*andythenorth tries
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>make sure it's not other pitfalls like relying on refit-at-station
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>and there was also a cycle time issue
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>where having too many disconnected networks makes it slower to pick up new links
11:43<@peter1138>Hmm, industry/station catchment highlight... is that useful?
11:43<andythenorth>relying on refit at station is fine, if it's explicit refit
11:43<andythenorth>not 'refit any available'
11:48<Samu>how do I explore previous build attempts of the same PR in
11:48<Samu>or search
11:50<andythenorth>yeah it's a cycle time issue
11:50<andythenorth>4 months for the 3rd route to be allocated cargo
11:50*peter1138 twitches
11:50<andythenorth>doesn't affect the 2nd route
11:51<andythenorth>it's probably all correct for reasons that I am too dense to understand
11:52<andythenorth>but with >1000t of cargo sat on the station waiting for pickup, it just looks silly to have a vehicle sat waiting for cargo for months
11:52<andythenorth>so I usually just build another pickup station
11:52<andythenorth>which is also why I need a larger industries
11:53<andythenorth>which is why industries need to be able to terraform land
11:53<@peter1138>After being built?
11:53<andythenorth>they don't *need* to at all
11:53<andythenorth>it's ridiculous to do that just because cdist doesn't work
11:53<@peter1138>Isn't there a flat-land-border? Doesn't that do it?
11:55<andythenorth>there's nothing that can reliably place large industries on mountainous terrain
11:55<andythenorth>except desiging the industry so that it's single tile sprites and can be jumbled over slopes
11:55<andythenorth>but again, doing this because cdist doesn't work does seem a bit ass backwards :)
11:56<Samu>TrueBrain, shall I move GetTileShipTrackStatus to track_func.h from ship_cmd.cpp+ship.h?
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there's probably improvements to be had by combining small networks into one cycle
11:59<andythenorth>ship 75 has been loading for 4 months
11:59<andythenorth>and has only just started accepting cargo
12:00<andythenorth>it takes a full 6 months to reach 100% (I ffwed a bit)
12:00<andythenorth>if that was RVs, planes or trains, the station would be totally blocked
12:00<andythenorth>so the only solution is to split each pickup station, so a maximum of 2 routes is served
12:00<andythenorth>I dug into it a lot with fonso years ago, with test games
12:01<andythenorth>the 'more stations' solution was the recommended outcome
12:01<andythenorth>otherwise I'd have filed a bug
12:04<andythenorth>hmm even if it was improved
12:05<andythenorth>designing non-blocking pickup stations with cdist active is ~impossible
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>"leave if another train with this destination arrives" order?
12:06<andythenorth>some kind of 'go round in circles' waypoint?
12:06<andythenorth>I never do that stuff TBH, it's beyond me
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>non-blocking stations are tricky even without cargodist
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>that's why people want things like programmable signals
12:07<andythenorth>easy if only 1 destination, and a depot order before station
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12:11<andythenorth>ok Eddi|zuHause putting all that aside, how distributing to multiple destinations be incentivised (with or without cdist)?
12:11<andythenorth>how should *
12:11<Samu>I don't know where to put the function
12:11<Samu>If it's not in ship.h, then it's in water.h?
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>something about scaling industry output by available destination coverage. but that's one aspect which YACD had problems with. Performance-wise it was tricky to find all potential destinations, and implementation-wise it's a bad idea to do the scaling via station rating, as too many other things are affected (like industry closure)
12:13<andythenorth>I was looking VA2 for useful vars to scale output
12:13<andythenorth>I could enforce acceptance limits at black holes?
12:14<andythenorth>or I could nerf cargo payment (simulation of 'demand') for over-saturated towns?
12:14<Samu>ship.h is the most logical place for it
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>then i'd rather have stockpile limit
12:17<andythenorth>could scale that by population
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12:17<andythenorth>afaik, cdist has a really hard time with acceptance stopping / starting
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>consume X units per 100 population per month, and stockpile limit is 12*X
12:19<andythenorth>are there incentives which aren't as crude as refusing acceptance?
12:19<andythenorth>like town growth?
12:19<andythenorth>or YACD? :P
12:23*andythenorth unrelated, wonders where the industry map count is applied
12:23<andythenorth>I'll find it
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean?
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12:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
12:26<andythenorth>there is a count for how many industries should be on the map, scaled by map size and player setting in worldgen options
12:26*andythenorth looking for it
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>in industry_cmd.cpp probably
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>or economy*?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>dunno if that exists
12:27<andythenorth>SetupTargetCount() maybe
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12:28<Samu>I followed the example set by WaterClass GetEffectiveWaterClass(TileIndex tile);
12:28<andythenorth>I have 50% of an idea about splitting town industries out from the general map count
12:28<andythenorth>so that an industry newgrf could force certain types into *every* town, subject to arbitrary conditions
12:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>start with the tropic water tower?
12:30<andythenorth>that's exactly what I did :)
12:30<andythenorth>it's not present in every town
12:30<andythenorth>so, not much to learn there :P
12:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
12:35<andythenorth>well I didn't find a quick answer
12:35<andythenorth>and I'm not going to just file a GH issue for this :P
12:47<andythenorth>Alberth: can you remember if you scaled industry counts to the newgrf?
12:55<@Alberth>it uses the chances supplied by the grf
12:56<Samu>gonna make experimentations suggested by nielsmh
12:56<@Alberth>not sure if that answers your question, don't quite understand "scaled industry counts to the newgrf"
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12:59<andythenorth>there is a non-serious issue where a newgrf with a large number of types will get few of each type on the map
13:00<@peter1138>Scaled by map size, I think?
13:00<andythenorth>yes, and player setting
13:00<andythenorth>I was trying to understand SetupTargetCount()
13:01<nielsm>hm irc logs again can not be served
13:01<nielsm> hangs and times out
13:02<andythenorth>only for 30th?
13:02<andythenorth>happens sometimes
13:02<nielsm>well some other days too
13:02<nielsm>something enters the logs and breaks the server it seems
13:03<nielsm>also I think my bird sat on my keyboard when I wasn't looking and did something that makes it ignore repeated keypresses without a long delay between
13:03<andythenorth>my mac did that recently
13:03<andythenorth>then I found the setting
13:03<andythenorth>nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnow I have fast repeat
13:03<nielsm>ahh windows "filter keys" accesibility option
13:03<andythenorth>yeah same on the mac :P
13:04<andythenorth>something changed it without me looking
13:04<nielsm>"press and hold the right shift key for eight seconds to turn on filter keys"
13:04<nielsm>that sounds like something a bird woujld do
13:05<andythenorth>so how to force industries into towns? o_O
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13:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
13:24<@peter1138>Just flooding the system with PRs...
13:26<Samu>don't tell me nielsm was right all this time
13:27<Samu>asserting (forall == kdtree centre tile only
13:28<Samu>only 1 tile would massively speed up things
13:29<nielsm>I'm sure you can find edge cases where it's not true
13:29<@peter1138>If the airport is square, and has odd dimensions, yes (but the distance isn't the distance from the closest tile to the town)
13:30<nielsm>but I think it would involve gigantic airports with irregular shapes
13:31<nielsm>and potentially the town centre tile being inside the airport bounding rectangle
13:31<Samu>TILE_ADDXY is utterly slow for some reason, gonna do this in another manner
13:32<@Alberth>andy: yes, it's scaled by map size, and density, many industries means each one gets less often build
13:32<andythenorth>ok as I thought then
13:33<andythenorth>I wonder if newgrf industry could have a flag to be opted out of the count
13:33<andythenorth>obviously authors could do stupid things with that
13:34<@Alberth>give it 0 chance should work
13:35<andythenorth>peter1138: 7446 is madness :)
13:35<@peter1138>How so?
13:35<andythenorth>when using distant join
13:35<andythenorth>not bad madness, just surprising effect
13:35<@peter1138>Yeah :/
13:36<andythenorth>the basic 'Coverage' is really good
13:36<andythenorth>but on distant join the hover effect is quite surprising :)
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13:38<andythenorth>also found a bug
13:39<@peter1138>That's why we PR instead of insta-merge :D
13:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
13:42<andythenorth>hmm can I get a clean repro
13:43<andythenorth>it's something to do with toggling coverage multiple times, interweaved with opening/closing window
13:43<andythenorth>it keeps some structure of 'previous station' when toggling coverage on multiple stations?
13:51<@peter1138>Yeah I guess I broke a condition when adding the adjacaent station stuff.
13:53<andythenorth>I am also available for weddings and funerals
13:53<andythenorth>is it lunch time?
13:53<@LordAro>peter1138: 79.93
13:53<@LordAro>i'm a little disappointed
13:53<@peter1138>But I believe I am going to an eat-as-much-as-you-like Chinese buffet tonight.
13:53<Samu>Assertion failed at line 2247 of d:\openttd\openttd github\openttd\src\station_cmd.cpp: forall == centre
13:55<@peter1138>For rectangular airports, you might be able to get away with testing just 2 tiles.
13:55<@peter1138>You might just not care and decide it's sufficient to only test from the centre.
13:55<+glx>peter1138: generate_widget then squirrel_export ;)
13:55<@peter1138>glx, ffs
13:55<nielsm>part of the question is, maybe it is actually okay to change the rules slightly?
13:55<@peter1138>Roll on CMake
13:58<Samu>TileIndex centre_tile = TileXY(TileX(it) + (as->size_x / 2), TileY(it) + (as->size_y / 2));
13:58<Samu>maybe my centre_tile is wrong
13:59<+glx>math seems correct
13:59<nielsm>but if the airport is an even number of tiles on one or the other tile
14:00<nielsm>then there is not one definitive centre tile
14:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7380: Feature: Multi-tile docks.
14:00<nielsm>up to four tiles could be it
14:00<+glx>and of course it is included in size
14:00<@peter1138>In which case you might as well just test the 4 corner tiles and ignore the whole irregular airports thing.
14:01<Samu>I tested 4 corners tiles before, it also asserted
14:01<+glx>is there any non-rectangular airports ?
14:01<+glx>(square is rectangular)
14:02<Samu>even if there are, there's still as->size_x and as->size_y
14:02<+glx>anyway irregular airports will still have size_x and size_y matching the whole coverage
14:03<+glx>even if some parts inside are not airport tiles I guess
14:04<@peter1138>Samu, it asserted because you were making sure the result is the same.
14:04<@peter1138>But maybe it doesn't matter that much.
14:04<andythenorth>should I be testing 7380 yet? o_O
14:04<@peter1138>And currently the only irregular airport is the intercontinental within opengfx+ airports.
14:04<@peter1138>It has 1 missing corner tile.
14:05<@peter1138>I remember now.
14:05<@peter1138>Testing just the corner tiles may cause towns to appear to be further.
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14:07<Samu>nielsm other suggestion hmm
14:07<Samu>1, 2 or 4 tiles
14:07*andythenorth learns to draw steam trains
14:07<andythenorth>they're just blobs with a funnel it seems
14:07<andythenorth>never drawn any before
14:08<+glx>instead of asserting, maybe you should just print town tile and airport tile, then compare manually which one is correct
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14:09<+glx>because old method could be wrong, or your method, but asserting just show they are different, not why they are
14:10<Samu>it isn't wrong anymore, I'm testing with 7429 mixed in
14:10<Samu>which prevents layout outside map thing
14:10<+glx>oh and you don't need to test on more than 256x256 ;)
14:11<+glx>if it works for it, it will for bigger maps too
14:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
14:12<qwebirc97432>hi, where would i report a bug that might be openttd related but might be newgrf related?
14:13<+glx>with details, and savegame
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14:13<qwebirc97432>i just wasn't sure because the guidelines for bug reports on github say not to post about newgrfs
14:14<TrueBrain>qwebirc97432: if you mention this in the issue, I am sure nobody would bite :)
14:14<qwebirc97432>ok, i'll report it there. thanks
14:14<TrueBrain>the fact that you are aware you are not sure, is for us as developers a huge breath of fresh air :D
14:14<+glx>if it's a newgrf issue we will found out :)
14:14<TrueBrain>tnx for taking the effort qwebirc97432 :)
14:19<Samu>sorry, I don't know what inline do, other than making visual studio fail at compiling, :p
14:20<TrueBrain>can you understand that that approach to programming is very wrong? :)
14:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
14:20<+glx>search for inline in other headers, you'll see how it's used
14:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
14:21<+glx>and ask google for inline meaning in c++
14:21<andythenorth>could we extend newgrf cargo town effects?
14:21<andythenorth>ok, what would be good?
14:22<nielsm>also "inline" in C++ does not mean that the compiler should try to inline the function :D
14:22<@peter1138>I was hoping you had thought a bit further before asking.
14:22<andythenorth>I have, but I haven't convinced myself yet
14:22<andythenorth>my opening idea is simply increasing the cargos required for town growth
14:23<andythenorth>it's probably lame
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14:23<TrueBrain>nielsm: neither in C :D
14:23<+glx>yes it's just a hint
14:23<TrueBrain>frosch123! Can you check if I forgot anything: ? :) (to prepare for monday)
14:23<andythenorth>let's see if this was all solved already
14:24<andythenorth>eh what is a peter1138 town growth challenge then? o_O
14:24<@peter1138>andythenorth, some shit from years ago.
14:25<@peter1138>Before we had GS
14:27<andythenorth>meh GS
14:27<Samu>btw, wasn't 90 degrees for ship already removed from master?
14:27<Samu>i still found a remnant
14:27<andythenorth>yeah, basically cargos [xyz] required for town growth, is my idea
14:27<Samu>GetAvailShipTracks in ship_cmd.cpp
14:28<andythenorth>basically prop 18 and 19, but more
14:29<Samu>ah no, the setting still affects ships
14:29<Samu>erm, in 1.9.0-RC2 at least
14:29<+glx>1.9.0 is not master
14:29<@peter1138>glx, it is still there in master. Hmm.
14:29<andythenorth>extend 'town requires cargo xyz' beyond desert / snow
14:29<@peter1138>andythenorth, but more what?
14:30<andythenorth>I think I know the answer to this
14:30<andythenorth>which is GS
14:30<@peter1138>andythenorth, no, you need to explain yourself a bit better.
14:30<Samu>checking master, brb
14:30<@peter1138>andythenorth, like, clearly. You're being a bit Samu.
14:30<andythenorth>I don't have a goal, other than 'incentivise delivery of town cargos'
14:31*andythenorth reframes it
14:31<andythenorth>'give player a reason to deliver cargos to town black holes, additional to just £££'
14:31<@peter1138>Yes I know that.
14:32<Samu>just checked, it's not on master anymore
14:32<@peter1138>But you are talking about spec features, and it needs to be defined in spec terms.
14:32<andythenorth>when I do that, I usually get told to express the general problem, and stay out of programming :P
14:32<@peter1138>It is there in master.
14:32<+glx>I can see it in master
14:32<@peter1138> ship_cmd.cpp:512
14:32<Samu>yes, but the setting is no longer saying it affects ships
14:32<@peter1138>That might explain why I had a stuck ship.
14:33<+glx>forgotten in I guess
14:33<andythenorth>frosch123: why was Town Control abandoned? o_O
14:33<@peter1138>Samu, ah, you are working backwards.
14:33<andythenorth>just inertia, or a concrete reason?
14:33<frosch123>andythenorth: it predates nogo
14:34<frosch123>nogo solved it better
14:34<@peter1138>Samu, when says "it's not on master" when talking about a line of code, it makes sense that you'd still be talking about that line of code.
14:34<+glx>yeah the important part is not the setting description
14:35<+glx>it's the actual code
14:35<andythenorth>peter1138: in terms of spec, I think the proposed var 61 here, and a 'decide town growth' cb
14:35<Samu>oh, sorry for the confusion
14:35<+glx>peter1138: only one occurence in ship_cmd.cpp
14:36<Samu>I was referring the "feature" itself
14:36<+glx>all other are rails related
14:36<@peter1138>Samu, you were refering to a line of code to start with.
14:39<@peter1138>^ How I handle it in multi-tile-docks.
14:39<@peter1138>But that's a bit more specific because I have to store bits in the map array.
14:40<@peter1138>I think you can just use line 172
14:40<@peter1138>I mean, take that line directly, don't take the function :p
14:41<@peter1138>Maybe not, I dunno.
14:42<+glx>I'd just move the full function into the header
14:42<+glx>it's a one line function anyway
14:45<+glx>removing static, keeping inline
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i think that Town_Control draft needs to be seriously revised with GS in mind
14:46<andythenorth>yeah accepted
14:46<andythenorth>I want to say that GS has failed tbh
14:46<andythenorth>but I don't think that's quite fair
14:46<andythenorth>I use a GS in every game
14:46<Samu>inline TrackBits GetTileShipTrackStatus(TileIndex tile)
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it could serve as a communication layer between GS and NewGRF
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>where the NewGRF shouldn't expect any special GS to be run
14:47<andythenorth>yeah possibly
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>but the numbers always be meaningful
14:47<@peter1138>What was I working on?
14:47<andythenorth>to expand, it's *because* I use a GS in every game that the 'oh GS solves that' answer is basically useless ;P
14:47<TrueBrain>my dinner
14:48<TrueBrain>hurry up plz
14:48<+glx>docks ?
14:48<@peter1138>Yes, nrt.
14:48<andythenorth>TrueBrain NewDinner
14:48*andythenorth just finished dinner
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>i've eaten something, not sure it counts as Dinner
14:48<@peter1138>TrueBrain, yeah, I'm having a chinese buffet tonight. You're welcome to come along.
14:48<@peter1138>I'm gonna be well over that 2000 carolies :p
14:48<TrueBrain>peter1138: sure. Be there in ... 4 hours :P
14:49<@peter1138>FML I'm already near it.
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>Oh Carolina!
14:49<TrueBrain>carolies? :P
14:49<+glx>weird imperial unit ?
14:49<TrueBrain>get out of the EU already
14:49<andythenorth>we tried
14:50<TrueBrain>j/k .. <3
14:50<andythenorth>now we're failing
14:50<andythenorth>super fail
14:50<TrueBrain>it makes for entertaining videos, you are fine
14:50<andythenorth>how many carolies in a Gu pot?
14:50<andythenorth>'lock the doors'
14:50<@peter1138>andythenorth, about 250-350
14:51<@peter1138>TrueBrain, I typo'd it once, and it's stuck :)
14:51<Samu>yapf_ship.cpp calls GetEffectiveWaterClass
14:51<@peter1138>TrueBrain, and I like it because it means I'm not really taking them seriously.
14:51<Samu>ship_cmd.cpp also
14:52<+glx>unrelated to what you're doing I'd say
14:52<@peter1138>Oh, I remember now, as I was working on NRT I found a related issue in master.
14:52<@peter1138>And then I got distracted.
14:52<andythenorth>how many carolies in bread and butter?
14:52<andythenorth>the butter is about 2mm thick
14:52<andythenorth>at leat
14:52<andythenorth>least *
14:52<@peter1138>Samu, what does GetEffectiveWaterClass have to do with anything? o_O
14:52<TrueBrain>its also a function!!
14:52<Samu>it doesn't have inline
14:53<TrueBrain>I am pretty sure 99% of the functions don't have inline
14:53<@peter1138>It can't have inline.
14:53<+glx>inline is usually for very small and simple functions
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>if the calorie is defined by 1l water and 1°C temperature difference, doesn't that technically make it a metric unit?
14:53*andythenorth learns about inline
14:53<@peter1138>Yeah, it's way too long for that.
14:53<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: so that makes carolies imperial, not?
14:53<+glx>and when using inline in header you put the whole function in the header
14:54<TrueBrain>and yet again we are telling him what inline is, instead of him googling it for ... 5 minutes :P
14:54<Samu>google doesn't help
14:54<andythenorth>how big is a carolie in whitworth/bsf?
14:54<TrueBrain>learn a man to fish, and he can feed his family for a lifetime .. give him a fish ..... ;)
14:55<Samu> -- not english enough for me :( I can't understand it
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>i'd bring up the von moltke scheme now...
14:55<andythenorth>except it has irritating cookie warning
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: doesn't that apply for every website now?
14:56<andythenorth>apparently only in the EU
14:56<andythenorth>we had someone from NZ over last week who was bemused by the state of our web
14:57<andythenorth>so probably they're doing IP lookup to geo-target GDPR warnings
14:57<andythenorth>which is immediate fail of course :)
14:57<Samu>first it says it reduces execution time, then next paragraph it says it increases execution time
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: don't worry, it's just going to get worse before it gets better
14:57<@LordAro>tbf, "inline" in C++ is largely ignored by the compiler these days
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: cookie warnings were a thing before GDPR
14:57<andythenorth>to be strictly compliant, as the tin-foil people interpret GDPR, every website should be a detailed consent form *before* any consent is shown
14:57<andythenorth>content *
14:58<andythenorth>or maybe my typo is accurate
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's just now they added another layer begging you to allow them to sell your data to spam networks
14:58<andythenorth>the consent now *is* the content
14:59<andythenorth>anyway, so C++ inlining is just inlining?
14:59<andythenorth>to save overhead?
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the GDPR is not about the content. it's about the advertisment around the content
14:59<andythenorth>it's about the processing
14:59<andythenorth>it's not about the content or the advertising
14:59*andythenorth has spent 18 months working on GDPR compliance now, and still isn't done
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well, most processing is about the advertising :p
15:00<andythenorth>it's remarkable how much work GDPR compliance generates
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>that's how bureaucracies work
15:00<andythenorth>and this is in a business model that is basically compliant at day zero
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15:01<andythenorth>other people must be having a nightmare :P
15:01<andythenorth>anyway, town control
15:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buttercup5 opened issue #7447: Text for some railway station NewGRFs is missing/invisible
15:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 requested changes for pull request #7445: Update: Changelog for 1.9.0 and prepare for release
15:12<andythenorth>if there were enough town registers
15:12<andythenorth>I could do supply + demand payment :P
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i don't think that solves anything
15:13<andythenorth>I am going by the frosch123 motto that newgrf changes need time to become clear
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>re:#7447 didn't we have some "validate newgrf strings" idea somewhere?
15:13<andythenorth>and exploring different ideas helps that
15:14<andythenorth>I quite like the idea of demand function related to town population, and amount delivered
15:14<andythenorth>the 'refuse cargo acceptance' cb has always bothered me
15:15<andythenorth>I suspect there's a less binary way to do that
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: a callback that tells cargodist about industry demand?
15:15<andythenorth>magical cargo routing? o_O
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>(overriding the builtin demand function)
15:16<andythenorth>*iff* we can make it work
15:16<andythenorth>it would be interesting
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it won't prevent cargodist sending surplus
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but it may help the supplies distribution
15:16<andythenorth>but if it was high latency it would be very annoying
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>cargodist stuff is always high latency
15:17<andythenorth>and latency is also a function of cargo-in-transit, on large maps
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15:17<andythenorth>I suspect it might have an unpleasant feedback loop, basically slow-motion flapping
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: in TF, demand is calculated at production time. if there's no demand (i.e. all connected stockpiles are full) no cargo is produced
15:18<andythenorth>would we do it in the industry, or the station?
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>that would be in the industry
15:19<andythenorth>there's a move-cargo-to-station function
15:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
15:19<Samu>no idea what I'm doing anymore :(
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think we can copy that approach, though
15:19<Samu>gonna test if it compiles
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>also, they needed a few iterations on that to make industries not starve
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>on every transportation hiccup
15:20<andythenorth>there could be horrible cascade along a complex industry chain :P
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>if a chocolate bar has 550kcal, does that mean i can eat 4 of them without feeling guilty? :p
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's always kilo, it's just dropped for convenience
15:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window.
15:23<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, if you only eat that... no.
15:23<@peter1138>I bought 4 bars of halva today.
15:24<@peter1138>39p each. 550kcal each. 2200kcal for £1.56.
15:24<Samu>Clang 3.8 dude didn't like inline
15:24<@peter1138>#7448 found while fixing NRT :p
15:25<@peter1138>Samu, there are specific rules as to when you can and can't use inline. Don't try to guess.
15:26<andythenorth>why would anyone inline unless they really know what they are doing?
15:26<Samu>I don't know what I'm doing
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: nobody ever asked "why would anyone do <X> without knowing what they're doing" and it had a good outcome
15:27<Samu>just messing around with inline at this point
15:27<andythenorth>I once circumvented an automated saw trigger on a plastic extrusion machine
15:27<Samu> warning: inline function 'GetTileShipTrackStatus' is not defined [-Wundefined-inline]
15:28<andythenorth>I didn't know what I was doing
15:28<andythenorth>I thought it would make it quicker to stack the plastic
15:28<nielsm>the "inline" keyword in C++ is a linkage specifier putting some special rules on what the linker may do and will require for the function
15:28<@peter1138>Do I have more PRs open than Samu yet?
15:28<andythenorth>we could just close them all
15:29<andythenorth>'monthly reset' !
15:29<andythenorth>start from scratch every 30 days
15:29<@peter1138>Nope, both have 12 open.
15:29<@peter1138>I have more closed though.
15:29<nielsm>inline functions should always be defined in header files and never forward declared
15:29<TrueBrain>tnx frosch123 :D Nicely spotted :P
15:30<Samu>visual studio doesn't complain
15:30<Samu>only linux
15:30<Samu>or mac
15:30<Samu>that's why I removed inline
15:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #7449: Fix #7447, 3357cac847: Action 4 has feature 48 'original strings'.
15:32<Samu>understanding why it does that is the hard part, I have no real idea how to use inline. Google doesn't help. The examples I've seen aren't clear for me.
15:33<@peter1138>frosch123, wow ;/
15:33<frosch123>ttdp 2.0 relict :)
15:34<frosch123> <- it's only used in that single place
15:34<frosch123>and "feature" is unused in action4 for anything else but vehicles
15:34<@peter1138>Yes but I think documenting it in the GSF enum is better?
15:34<andythenorth>hmm what if town industries produced when delivered to?
15:34*andythenorth doesn't know what
15:35<Samu>undefined reference to `GetTileShipTrackStatus(unsigned int)'
15:35<andythenorth>scrap metal?
15:35<frosch123>medieval towns only survived by immigration
15:36<andythenorth>I considered corpses already :P
15:36<andythenorth>and a graveyard industry
15:36<andythenorth>and hearse vehicles
15:36<andythenorth>'maybe not'
15:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
15:39<Samu>visual studio continues to build
15:40<Supercheese>still April 1 for release innit?
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15:45<Samu>clang 3.8 already failed
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15:46<andythenorth>I pulled master
15:46<andythenorth>where did the sea go in minimap?
15:48<SpComb>the great polish sea
15:52<andythenorth>maybe I need an eye test :)
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>i would maybe recommend that, if you can't distinguish those two colours :p
15:53<Samu>sorry, TrueBrain, I'm gonna solve this the peter1138 way
15:54<andythenorth>contrast ratio is only 1.05:1
15:54<andythenorth>that is relatively low
15:55<andythenorth>wcag contrast threshold is about 4.5:1
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but that is not a default colour combination.
15:56<andythenorth>so what?
15:56<andythenorth>it's provided, and now it's broken
15:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7449: Fix #7447, 3357cac847: Action 4 has feature 48 'original strings'.
15:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7449: Fix #7447, 3357cac847: Action 4 has feature 48 'original strings'.
15:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7447: Text for some railway station NewGRFs is missing/invisible
15:57<andythenorth>arguably both the greens are now improved relative to the new blue
15:57<andythenorth>the violet is unusable
15:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
15:58<@peter1138>andythenorth, what's broken in your screen shot? Those colours are completely different.
15:59<andythenorth>I can barely distinguish them
15:59<@peter1138>Use the other scheme then?
15:59<andythenorth>is purple-blue colour blindness a thing?
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>some people cannot properly see purple
15:59<@peter1138>Maybe 1) your screens are shit or 2) you're colour-blind.
15:59*andythenorth looks
15:59<@peter1138>But that is perfectly distinguishable for me.
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but we have different colour schemes for different kinds of colour blindness
16:00<andythenorth>contrast ratio 1.05:1?
16:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
16:00<andythenorth>I know, I asked for them to be added
16:00<@peter1138>contrast ratio doesn't take account of hue.
16:01<@peter1138>And the hue is markedly different.
16:02<@peter1138>Oh, 7446 failed
16:02<andythenorth>it's only 21 degrees but ok
16:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
16:02<andythenorth>I just don't like taking these crap PRs from someone who doesn't know how to do quality :P
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: human eyes have 3 kinds of cone cells for red, green and blue. most types of colour blindness have a reduced number of one of these 3 types, and that reduces the amount of colours you can distinguish by like a factor of 100
16:03<andythenorth>anyway, the solution is probably to fix the violet
16:03<@peter1138>Just use green.
16:04<andythenorth>I can't use either of the greens, I can't see industries on them
16:04<@peter1138>My eyes are nothing special, but I can clearly see the difference :/
16:04<andythenorth>I have > 99% colour vision
16:04<andythenorth>on the tests
16:04<andythenorth>but not here it seems :P
16:04<@peter1138>Maybe your screen is shit then.
16:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, could be your screen
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16:05<andythenorth>it will have mac gamma
16:05<andythenorth>which is different to Windows gamma
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but if the aim of that colour scheme is to make the land darker to see other features better, i don't see the problem that both the land and the water are kind of dark
16:06<andythenorth>I can't tell one from the other
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>i think that is a you problem.
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>no action required :p
16:07<andythenorth>that's kind of offensive
16:07<andythenorth>given that these colours were only added for accessibility
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: then we need more colour schemes
16:08<andythenorth>or we need to not just let people with no clue blindly change things
16:08<andythenorth>'blindly' is like the worst thing I could have said there :P
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but we added them for people with eye problem. not for people with screen problems
16:09<andythenorth>accessibility is accessibility
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>then i don't know what to say anymore
16:09<andythenorth>'fix the violet'
16:10<andythenorth>I'll find a new one
16:10<andythenorth>what caused the sea to need to be changed?
16:10<andythenorth>dark blue CC?
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>there's no reason why the water colour couldn't be changed in the false-colour mode, though
16:11<@peter1138>I'm going out. Enjoy.
16:11<andythenorth>yeah the dark blue CC was the same as water, which was stupid
16:13<andythenorth>and none of the map greens clash with green CC
16:13<andythenorth>nor the map violet with purple CCs
16:14<andythenorth>hmm actually, if height map is on, they do
16:14<Samu> there was an alternative in the PR
16:14<Samu>with company colours being darker
16:14<Samu>peter went with darker water
16:14<andythenorth>no we should first just try adjusting the purple
16:14<andythenorth>the new blue is a definite improvement
16:18*andythenorth wonders if this is just a problem on wide gamut displays
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16:22<TrueBrain>Samu: I never suggested a way to solve it; so I have no clue what you are on about. All I try to constantly tell you is that your patch itself needs work. I am not looking at the content as such, as in: HOW you solved it. Just WHAT you solved needs more attention. It seems you are still not grasping this .. I am running out of ways to explain this
16:23<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: do you know what colour profile your display runs?
16:24<andythenorth>these colours are really sensitive to colour space
16:24<andythenorth>I want to see what other people are seeing
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i wouldn't know how to find out
16:28<andythenorth>what linux are you running?
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16:29<Eddi|zuHause>and if you asked me what colour the dress was, it was lightblue/brown
16:29<andythenorth>seems colour management is optional in KDE
16:30<+michi_cc>andythenorth: Colours are clearly different on a LCD hardware-calibrated to something close to D65/gamma 2.2.
16:30<SimYouLater>**** you all. I asked if the track scale guide was useful or not so that nobody would complain. I said "Leanden didn't like it last time". And what do I get? ****ing Pikkabird complains and says he's gotten several requests to close the topic.
16:30<andythenorth>michi_cc: do you know what colour space?
16:30<andythenorth>SimYouLater: that level of maturity wins you a lot
16:31<SimYouLater>That's not immaturity, that's ANGER.
16:31<andythenorth>we've found today's top idiot
16:31<SimYouLater>I AM PISSED.
16:31<andythenorth>you're an idiot
16:31<andythenorth>go away
16:31<TrueBrain>@kban SimYouLater 60 cool off; come back when you have done so
16:31-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
16:31-!-SimYouLater was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [cool off; come back when you have done so]
16:31<andythenorth>he was already told, tt-forums isn't #openttd
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16:32<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure i advised against opening that topic
16:32-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
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16:33<TrueBrain>we can post this on /r/entitledpeople I guess
16:33<+michi_cc>andythenorth: Not really sure, unfortunately. Colour space isn't part of the loaded ICM file name :) Monitor is marketed with 95% AdobeRGB, so pretty sure more colors than sRGB.
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16:36<+glx>what should be seen (or not) on the screenshot ?
16:36<SimYouLater>Okay, calm.
16:36<SimYouLater>Why am I not respected by any of you?
16:36<andythenorth>because you act like that
16:36<TrueBrain>respect is earned; not demanded
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>... if you ignore all the warnings, and then complain that you haven't been warned?
16:36<andythenorth>act like an idiot, get treated like an idiot
16:36<+glx>and your first wrods were irrespectful
16:37<nielsm>do you see pikkabird in here?
16:37<SimYouLater>Then explain why everyone hates the topic I made, and made politely.
16:37<SimYouLater>Because Pikkabird got several requests to close my topic.
16:37<andythenorth>explain why "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!" is a way to get anything done
16:37<SimYouLater>It's not. It's a punishment.
16:37<andythenorth>at this point, all explaining is with you, not anyone here
16:37<andythenorth>if I was op, you'd be perma-banned
16:38<+glx>and we are not related to the forums
16:38<SimYouLater>Then why is there evena link?
16:38<TrueBrain>because google is also not related to us?
16:38<+glx>we use it, we don't manage it
16:38<SimYouLater>How am I supposed to know this IRC is not part of tt-forums?
16:39<+glx>no openttd in tt-forums ?
16:39<andythenorth>because you were told
16:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references.
16:39<SimYouLater>I was told just now.
16:39<andythenorth>you were told yesterday
16:39<SimYouLater>Not before I yelled at you.
16:39<SimYouLater>No, no you didn't.
16:39<andythenorth>click the link
16:39<+glx>I'm sure we did
16:39<SimYouLater>If you did, I didn't see it.
16:39<andythenorth>that's on you
16:39<Xaroth>Ignorance is not an excuse.
16:39<andythenorth>you literally reply in the line after you're told
16:40<SimYouLater>Whatever. I won't bother you anymore.
16:40-!-SimYouLater [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:40<nielsm>tt-forums has never had an IRC channel, there are IRC channels populated by some of ther same people
16:40<andythenorth>I won't miss simyoulater
16:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7435: Fix #7433: don't use AirportSpec substitute if it's not set
16:40<andythenorth>the forum DMs I had
16:40<andythenorth>really SYL needs some help
16:40<andythenorth>and this isn't the place for therapy
16:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7429: Codechange: Check airport layout would fit within map before iterating tiles.
16:41<nielsm>otoh I don't understand what people have against that thread of his, it never read to me like he was trying to prescribe anyone follow any kind of standard, it was just descriptive of his own observations
16:41<andythenorth>there's a history of drama
16:41<andythenorth>and he invents 'facts'
16:41<andythenorth>about other newgrf authors
16:42<+glx>seeing how it behaved here
16:42<andythenorth>which is incredibly irritating when it happens to you
16:42<andythenorth>so anyway, violet :P
16:42<andythenorth>I have the interesting problem of trying to fix it for me without breaking it for you :P
16:42<+glx>andythenorth: what I'm supposed to (not) see in your screenshot ?
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>[29.03.19 19:16] <Eddi|zuHause> <SimYouLater> Is anyone going to bite my head off if I try to explain track scales <-- i would rather not discuss scales. too many subjective opinions waiting to happen, no objective outcome expected.
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>there's a reason why i said what i said
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>everything happend as i predicted. sometimes i hate being right
16:43<andythenorth>glx very specifically, you should be able to see that purple exists, and blue exists, and the border between them should be very hard to see the shape of
16:44*andythenorth is now learning about linux colour management :(
16:45<+glx>I see purple and blue, and the border is clear
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>i find colour management settings is a bit pointless if you don't have a calibrated measurement device outside of the screen
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>lots of ways to just do it wrong
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>nobody really understands it
16:45<andythenorth>mostly I'm interested in the colour space
16:46<andythenorth>the purple-blue minimap varies widely when I switch colour spaces
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>colour space is a difficult topic. i had a glimpse of it when i worked at the ink factory
16:47<andythenorth>notably, with Adobe RGB, the minimap is quite legible
16:47<andythenorth>but with P3, not
16:48<andythenorth>Adobe RGB includes some blues which P3 does not
16:50<andythenorth>my assumption was that most people would have sRGB, which is more limited than Adobe RGB or P3, but that might be wrong
16:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag
16:53<_dp_>last time I tried linux color management my colors went crazy and I couldn't find any way to fix them...
16:54<_dp_>like there is a way to apply color profile but no way to revert it %)
16:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag
16:55<andythenorth>I have a P3 display, not Adobe RGB
16:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag
16:55<_dp_>or rather there is a way but it didn't work :(
16:55<andythenorth>I can simulate Adobe RGB, but it will still drop colours
16:56<andythenorth>so my assumption is that some of you might have an Adobe RGB display, and are seeing a more distinct blue
16:57<andythenorth>dumping the violet from 0x82 to 0x80 trivially fixes the whole issue
16:57<andythenorth>but I need to check for side effects
16:57<_dp_>there are some tests for color stuff that can somewhat help even without calibration device btw
16:57<andythenorth>most are based on static analysis of hue and contrast
16:57<milek7>could color profiles account for diffirences in eye structure? :P
16:57<andythenorth>or do you mean visual calibrations?
16:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7442: Change: [SDL] Do not offer video smaller than 640x480
17:01<andythenorth>this broken for anyone?
17:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc requested changes for pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window.
17:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7442: Change: [SDL] Do not offer video smaller than 640x480
17:02<+michi_cc>Oh, and #7379, #7379, #7379 :p
17:02<andythenorth>can anyone see the difference side-by-side (two tabs)
17:03<+glx>darker purple but same map for me :)
17:04<Eddi|zuHause><milek7> could color profiles account for diffirences in eye structure? :P <-- maybe it could emphasize the difficult-to-see colours on the cost of losing some ordinary ones
17:04<nielsm>very different colours to me
17:04<+glx>but I prefer darker
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the black area seems blacker
17:05<+glx>dark red spots are more visible
17:06<Samu>isnt' that the same image?
17:06<andythenorth>I am trying to find some non-apple devices to test on
17:06<nielsm>photo of my screen :)
17:06<Samu>nvm i missed the other link
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>you got some moiree going on on the right :)
17:07<+michi_cc>andythenorth: First screenshot the land is darker, but also has more contrast to the sea.
17:07<andythenorth>nielsm: I tried to take a picture, but my phone colour corrects, and restores the difference :P
17:07<+michi_cc>I tried a screen photo just now as well, unfortunately the resulting image doesn't even come close to how it really looks.
17:07<+glx>nielsm: I don't see the dark red spots on your photo
17:07<andythenorth>i.e. on my phone screen the map is absolutely legible
17:08<andythenorth>I should play OpenTTD via my phone camera? o_O
17:09<nielsm>glx they are there, just lost in noise etc. in the photo
17:09<nielsm>they are visible on screen
17:09<+glx>I see them
17:09<+glx>just not dark red :)
17:09<andythenorth>it's ridiculously sensitive to camera angle relative to screen
17:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
17:10<nielsm>I could find my DSLR and adjust settings to get a more accurate representation
17:10<+glx>anyway for me dark version is better
17:10<nielsm>but that's too much effort
17:10<nielsm>+1 to dark version
17:10<+glx>more contrast
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17:10<Samu>i prefer the darker purple
17:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc dismissed a review for pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
17:10<Samu>the 9351
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>i quite like the darker version as well
17:10*andythenorth just checking nothing else has disappeared
17:11<andythenorth>don't know if I need to adjust the heightmap colour range
17:11<andythenorth>looks ok
17:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
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17:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7435: Fix #7433: don't use AirportSpec substitute if it's not set
17:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built.
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17:13<SimYouLater>Not an excuse. I'm not getting away with yelling at you all just because I didn't know this isn't a TT-Forums IRC. I'm saying that was my motive, nothing else.
17:13<+glx>yelling is never a solution
17:13<TrueBrain>you could also try saying: sorry guys
17:13<SimYouLater>Yelling isn't a solution, it's a punishment. As for sorry, no, I'm not.
17:13-!-SimYouLater [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:14<andythenorth>see what I mean?
17:14<+glx>hmm preventive ban ?
17:14<TrueBrain>@kban *!
17:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: *! is not in #openttd.
17:14<Xaroth>Ignorance is not an excuse
17:14<TrueBrain>glx: yup :)
17:14<TrueBrain>hmm .. I cannot do that it seems ..
17:14-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
17:14<TrueBrain>cheers glx :)
17:14<andythenorth>the long rambling forum DMs I received from SYL literally made no sense
17:15<andythenorth>they contained conversations and facts that just hadn't happened
17:15<TrueBrain>well, now he did it in public. This is just not okay, and not how we work in this community
17:15<TrueBrain>saying you were wrong, refusing to say sorry, that is inexcusable :)
17:16-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by glx
17:16<andythenorth>hmm for the default green minimap, the heightmap greens don't relate to the flat green :)
17:16-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
17:17<andythenorth>they're different hues
17:17<andythenorth>'probably fine'
17:17*glx hates doing that
17:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7316: Change: Always report error when ordering a road vehicle to wrong type of road stop.
17:19<andythenorth>FFS, my editor converts tabs to spaces
17:19<andythenorth>which will fail here :P
17:19<+glx>stupid editor (mine does the opposite)
17:20<andythenorth>it would be fine if I could teach it to do it by file type :P
17:20<+glx>not very nice when editing cmake files
17:20<andythenorth>tabs don't go so well in .py
17:21<+glx>yeah python indentation is silly :)
17:21<+glx>it even has a meaning in code IIRC
17:22<andythenorth>no shit :)
17:22<andythenorth>wow, I just read a post comparing whether tabs or spaces are more optimal for writing html
17:22<andythenorth>conclusion: doesn't matter
17:22<andythenorth>good use of 1 minute
17:22<andythenorth>thx internet
17:23<+glx>in c++ it's just to ease reading, almost all blanks are ignored at compile time
17:24<+glx>I'd say tab is better for html, smaller page size ;)
17:25<_dp_>glx, some blanks are still relevant in c++: i+++++i :p
17:25<_dp_>glx, also that thing with >>
17:25<_dp_>in templates
17:25<+glx>I said almost, not all ;)
17:26<+glx>but all useless blanks are skiped
17:27<+michi_cc>_dp_: That >> thing was fixed with C++11.
17:28<Samu>checking if a ship can enter the third tile from the direction the dock is in (as I am guessing that is the intended functionality here).
17:32<Samu>it's fine, it only matters if the ship is in the destination tile
17:32<Samu>I dont know what to say
17:33<Samu>I give up
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17:34<Samu>line 672 ship_cmd.cpp
17:35<Samu>to reach the destination tile (the dock)
17:35<Samu>there has to be a water track
17:35<Samu>it's fine, I just don't know what TrueBrain wants now :(
17:36<Samu>i no longer check for tile flatness, or tile types, or any other tile types
17:36<Xaroth>what PR is this?
17:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #7450: Adjust violet smallmap colour 1 shade darker after #7436
17:37<Samu>it is essentially doing what it used to do
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17:38<Samu>with the extra of also allowing placement in those 4 more situations
17:39<andythenorth>glx: how much smaller are the page sizes with gzip? :P
17:39<Samu>i re-checked commit message, I see nothing wrong with it anymore
17:39<+glx>yeah now most client support compressed pages
17:39<andythenorth>trick question: how much smaller with whitespace removal :P
17:39<andythenorth>anyway, I did a PR!
17:40<andythenorth>do I get hearts and flowers?
17:40<+glx>reading it ;)
17:40<andythenorth>sorry, essay
17:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7450: Adjust violet smallmap colour 1 shade darker after #7436
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17:46<andythenorth>@calc 1007-8
17:46<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 999
17:46<Samu>I approve
17:46<andythenorth>yay I am only 999 commits behind TrueBrain
17:47<Samu>i need 7429 in master, so that 7424 makes sense
17:47<Samu>alone it doesn't work
17:47<Samu>should maybe warn there
17:48<TrueBrain>you go girl! (talking to andythenorth)
17:48<andythenorth>TrueBrain: you don't know my gender :P
17:48<TrueBrain>I can dream
17:48<andythenorth>should do it like twitter bios
17:48<andythenorth>he / him, she / her, etc
17:48<andythenorth>maybe not
17:49<andythenorth>is the entire channel cisgender male?
17:49*andythenorth suspects it is
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>did you just assume my gender?
17:50<andythenorth>I am rolling a dice
17:52<andythenorth>how many in the channel?
17:52<andythenorth>about 100?
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say you find more bots in here than trans people
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>but the probability is nonzero
17:53<andythenorth>@calc 100 * 0.003
17:53<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.3
17:53<andythenorth>yeah taking the EU reported percentage, it's 0.3 people in the channel
17:54<andythenorth>but Twitter gets very excited about it all
17:54*andythenorth has mostly quit Twitter, and FB
17:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7450: Adjust violet smallmap colour 1 shade darker after #7436
18:03<milek7>about that violet
18:03<milek7>i too find that border hard too see
18:05<andythenorth>is the improved version improved?
18:05<+glx>good :)
18:05<andythenorth>is your display old or new milek7? :)
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the thing with this kind of generalization is, there are so many "minorities" that you're eventually bound to hit one of them that is overrepresented in a small nonrepresentative group
18:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: no argument
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: like, in a channel about trains, you're more likely to find people on the far side of the autism spectrum
18:06<andythenorth>unless autism is under-diagnosed in the general population
18:06<andythenorth>and only diagnosed when people pursue visible dedicated interests, like trains
18:07-!-rocky11384497 [~rocky1138@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07<andythenorth>and anything that isn't statistically measured, might be under-measured :P
18:07<andythenorth>and so on
18:07<andythenorth>[brain explodes]
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there's loads of ways to do statistics wrong :p
18:11<milek7>andythenorth: DELL P2416D
18:12<andythenorth>this is surprisingly relaxing :P
18:13<andythenorth>milek7: which OS? :)
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18:14<andythenorth>thx, not sure what that says about colour spaces, but it's not just me :D
18:17<milek7>i have deuteranomaly, though i don't know if it matters here
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that just crashes my browser tab
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>actually, that might be a local problem
18:19<andythenorth>yeah deuteranomaly might cause blue-purple issues :)
18:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references.
18:19<andythenorth>if anyone wants to play colour perception...
18:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7429: Codechange: Check airport layout would fit within map before iterating tiles.
18:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>i think my / is full :/
18:25<+glx>rm -rf / ;)
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18:27<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window.
18:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window.
18:29<andythenorth>that X-rite test
18:29<andythenorth>I scored 4
18:29<@peter1138>What's that?
18:30<andythenorth>it's quite tedious
18:30<andythenorth>0 is the best score
18:32<milek7>eh, 84
18:33<andythenorth>there is also
18:34<@peter1138>Oh the colour arranging thing.
18:34<@peter1138>Done that before, don't remember my score.
18:34<@peter1138>But right now, my belly hurts.
18:34<@peter1138>I ate WAAAAY too much.
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>apparently my score is 16
18:37<andythenorth>the blue-greens really hurt me to do
18:38<andythenorth>one of my eyes sees more blue, the other more yellow
18:38<@peter1138>1 plate of starters
18:38<@peter1138>3 plates of chinese
18:38<@peter1138>1 desert :p
18:38<@peter1138>< fatty
18:38<@peter1138>A littel
18:38<@peter1138>A little
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>how do you live with yourself...
18:39<@peter1138>Probably several thousand.
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>i've got 3 bumps in my colour chart
18:39<@peter1138>mv: cannot stat 'windows-dependencies/installed': No such file or directory
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>the biggest one in the pink section
18:39<@peter1138>Eh, what?
18:40<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: well it's either your display, your eyes, or your brain :)
18:41<Samu>what was the point of that video?
18:41<Samu>meh, nevermind, I better not know
18:43<Samu>yes, it's finally mastered, I can now do AI API stuff
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>could very well be either of those :p
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>...deleting some kernels... this is gonna be good :)
18:45<+glx>peter1138: old master ?
18:46<andythenorth>I'm only deficient where purple meets blue, much lolz etc
18:46<@peter1138>Only a few hours?
18:46<andythenorth>anyway all fixed
18:46<+glx>ok they probably have changed something on azure again
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: my bump was a bit further to the right
18:46<@peter1138>I have a bump. It's a food-baby.
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>"Removed Packages: 31"
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>"kernel-default, kernel-default, kernel-default, ..."
18:47<andythenorth>when I went to Texas I got a cheese baby
18:47<andythenorth>cheese on all foods
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18:51<nielsm>okay yeah that's not the intended way this should work...
18:52<nielsm>"well... yes, that's the intention"
18:52<+glx>hmm it's our file that is broken it seems
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18:53<Eddi|zuHause>"State : clean, degraded"
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound right
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see the problem :p
18:55<+glx>TrueBrain: is missing all the dependencies
18:55<andythenorth>I should video these ships in these locks
18:55<Samu>I'm designing an AI function going into ScriptAirport. Help me with name
18:55<andythenorth>two-tiles wide canal
18:56<andythenorth>looks nice, going up and down
18:56<nielsm>is it possible to just delete a widget from a window during construction? :(
18:56<Samu>IsNoiseLevelAllowed, IsNoiseAllowed, IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
18:56<nielsm>without destroying the template nested widgets spec
18:56<Samu>Is Noise Level Increase Allowed for this airport type on this tile
18:56<+glx>TrueBrain: started between [22:57:16] <+DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7450: Adjust violet smallmap colour 1 shade darker after #7436 and [23:19:58] <+DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references.
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>so, lsscsi shows the 4th disk, why is mdadm not activating it?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause> <-- where did it go wrong?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>(output shortened to the relevant parts)
19:05<+glx>ok is broken since
19:09<TrueBrain>glx: no, it is not. It is broken with the weekly dep rebuild
19:09<TrueBrain>seem vcpkg changed something again
19:09<+glx>well less files archived since this one
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>"State : clean, degraded, recovering"
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>"State : clean"
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>still dunno what went wrong
19:10<TrueBrain>right .. vcpkg .. why are you such a pain .. hmm .. lets see ..
19:10<TrueBrain>ah .. I see .. lol ..
19:10<+glx>build is in c:/vcpkg now
19:11<TrueBrain>vcpkg and the Windows images are a bit odd
19:11<TrueBrain>it should always use the local copy .. but they made it so it picks the global
19:11<+glx>we install our own, it uses the global
19:11<TrueBrain>most likely some env setting
19:11<TrueBrain>meh; that is annoying .. hmm
19:12<+glx>but it's strange it happens only now in the CI
19:12<+glx>there's a delay between build and use ?
19:12<TrueBrain>it broke between last week and this week
19:12<TrueBrain>nothing really weird about
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>in 2 hours my wall clock finally will show the correct time again
19:14-!-gelignite [] has quit [Quit: Good fight, good night!]
19:14<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: ugh, I almost forgot
19:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain opened pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:17-!-erratic is "I need better friends :(" on #msys2 #moocows #mm #lowRISC #linux-rt #debian-ruby #debian-riscv #debian-offtopic #redditprivacy +#realraum #publiclab #debian-kde #debian-devel-changes #zcash ##politics # #ceph-devel #biz #bcache #C #* #linux #iovisor #freedombox #dfri_se #debian-br
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19:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] glx22 requested changes for pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:17<@peter1138>Hehe, beat me to it.
19:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] glx22 approved pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:19<andythenorth>super bedtime
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19:19<Samu>does that description comply ?
19:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: well, we'll have two more years of discussion whether summer or winter time is the better one, before they finally decide to postpone it further
19:20<Samu>description is nearly similar to
19:21<TrueBrain>they should changing the clock constantly .. UTC is annoying enough :P
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>maybe brexit happened until then :p
19:21<Samu>however, getting the noise that is added to the nearest alone town is kinda lacking
19:22<Samu>I don't know which town is nearest, nor wether it is allowed
19:22<+glx>winter time is definitely better for me
19:22<TrueBrain>fuck me .. Windows did some nasty stuff with vcpkg ..
19:22<Samu>I could get AIAirport.GetNearestTown afterwards, but that would be "expensively" repeating code
19:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:22<TrueBrain>time to debug with a lot of noise ... *sigh*
19:23<Samu>meh, chat is busy, I guess I'm PR'ing it
19:24<+glx>Samu: wait, CI is broken
19:24<Samu>oh, ok
19:24<TrueBrain>nielsm: nice value :)
19:24<Samu>i'm still gonna take half an hour writting the commit message, cus I never know how to write that kind of stuff
19:25<@peter1138>nielsm, trying to remove widgets?
19:25<@peter1138>nielsm, something about planes
19:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:27<nielsm>peter1138: trying to do two-step widget init so I can measure the multiline text properly too
19:27<TrueBrain>"cd: /mnt/c/vcpkg: No such file or directory"
19:27<TrueBrain>euhm .. hmmm?
19:27<TrueBrain>owh, no /mnt on this system
19:28<@peter1138>nielsm, UpdateWidgetSize() not good enough?
19:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed issue #7037: Smarter random town names
19:29<nielsm>peter1138 no because I want to break the text based on the width the window happens to get with the rest of the content
19:29<+glx>oh progress :)
19:30<nielsm>the layout system doesn't handle that at all
19:30<nielsm>(the number of lines of text is unknown)
19:32<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe we need to rethink how that works.
19:32<@peter1138>"How wide is this text if we make it fill 2 lines?"
19:33<@peter1138>But yeah, I'm not entirely happy with how window scaling works :(
19:33<nielsm>"how large will the window be without these controls? after that's known you can query those controls for their size"
19:35<@peter1138>Hmm, some way to have UpdateWidgetSize() called in multiple passes.
19:35<nielsm>but yeah also something about how window widths are determined with large fonts but not large UI scale, like this is not aestethic:
19:35<@peter1138>Well, it's called multiple times anyway. So just some way to specify that some should come later.
19:35<@peter1138>Widget dependencies?
19:36<@peter1138>Or some numeric value as a new widget attribute hmm.
19:37<nielsm>"widget sizing passes required"
19:37<nielsm>on each widget
19:37<nielsm>default 1
19:38<@peter1138>I was thinking order, but okay.
19:39<nielsm>I'm not going to get good results working further on this without some sleep
19:39<nielsm>so gn
19:40<+glx>TrueBrain: you retrigger #7448 ?
19:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:40<TrueBrain>glx: no; it would still fail
19:41<+glx>ah it's not instantly available to CI
19:41<TrueBrain>not before merge, no :)
19:41<TrueBrain>would be a bit weird, if random PRs end up in the CI :P
19:41<+glx>oh of course
19:41*glx is stupid
19:41<TrueBrain>right, this is ready for review now :)
19:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] glx22 approved pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:46<Samu>@calc 2700/170
19:46<@DorpsGek>Samu: 15.8823529412
19:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window.
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19:47<TrueBrain>12 minutes takes for ever if you are waiting on it
19:47<+glx>then another 12 minute before the real test
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>don't tell andy, he's going crazy at 1m compile times already
19:48<TrueBrain>glx: yup
19:48<Samu>kdtree is mighty impressive
19:48<Samu>15 times faster
19:49<+glx>lucky only 3 CI build failed and 2 were just merge checks
19:49<TrueBrain>nobody would die from CI failures, as far as I am aware
19:49<TrueBrain>so meh
19:49<TrueBrain>this is why we rebuild everything weekly :) To catch these issues
19:50<+glx>they block PR merge
19:50<TrueBrain>again, nobody is going to die because of that :)
19:50<TrueBrain>something that works 99 out of the 100 times .. that is still a very good score ;)
19:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #31: Fix: [AzurePipelines] Windows VMs now contain vcpkg out-of-the-box
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: imagine SYL came in here complaining his PR didn't go through
19:51<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I can't imagine that. He is banned :P
19:58<@peter1138>That escalated
20:00<TrueBrain>45 minutes to fix Microsoft bla .. meh :P
20:02<TrueBrain>and now all the agents are busy .... bbbbbbbbbaaahhhhh
20:08<TrueBrain>right, all fixed up again; retriggered master and the PR
20:08<TrueBrain>should be fine now
20:09<TrueBrain>can't wait till they fixed caching in Azure Pipelines
20:09<TrueBrain>means we can remove this hack ..
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20:15<+glx> <-- I guess it's this one
20:20<TrueBrain>well .. it should now be fixed no matter what they do
20:20<TrueBrain>but in Q2 caching is added .. this means this becomes Microsoft's issue at that point :p
20:21<TrueBrain>so we just have to hold it together till then
20:26<Samu>CI reminds me of Chaos Innoculation
20:27<Samu>is it ready to accept PRs?
20:27<Samu>i have one nearly ready
20:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed issue #6173: Add support for SDL2
20:29<+glx>oh with caching we can put vcpkg stuff directly in CI yaml directly
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20:42<Samu>Permission to PR?
20:42<+glx>yes it works now
20:43<Samu>rebasing and dropping and fixuping
20:44<Samu>pick, drop, fixup, drop, fixup, should work
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20:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7451: Add: AI/GS IsNoiseLevelAllowed
20:47<Samu>must change commit message yet :( add a description
20:50<Samu>oops, that AI changelog is wrong, why do I only notice issues when I post them
20:55<Samu>failed on linux
20:55<Samu>i see why
20:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7451: Add: AI/GS IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
21:00<Wolf01>Uhm, a hour has passed without noticing
21:00<+glx>oh no I lost an hour
21:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
21:03<+glx>hmm seems I forgot to update AI/GS changelog in my build with refit PR
21:04<@peter1138>It's too easy :-(
21:05<+glx>I noticed that when reading #7451
21:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window.
21:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7451: Add: AI/GS IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
21:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7451: Add: AI/GS IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
21:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7451: Add: AI/GS IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
21:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7452: Fix 6fc60d8c4f: forgot to update API changelog
21:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7452: Fix 6fc60d8c4f: forgot to update API changelog
21:20<Samu>yes, but I need to have sufficient money, I believe
21:20<Samu>test building it
21:21<+glx>in test mode you query cost
21:21<+glx>there's no money check IIRC
21:24<Samu>let me try
21:24<Samu>perhaps you're right
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21:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7452: Fix 6fc60d8c4f: forgot to update API changelog
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21:45<@peter1138>Hmm, why do we have functions with non-pointer/non-struct const parameters?
21:46<Samu>if it returns 0, airport can be placed,
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21:46<Samu>if it returns 1, it errored
21:46<Samu>shouldn't that be the opposite? hmm or is it returning -1? must check
21:50<Samu>nevermind, I'm stupid
21:52<Samu>ERR_UNKNOWN is being returned some times
21:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #5999: Compile warnings with --enable-lto
21:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #5999: Compile warnings with --enable-lto
22:03<Samu>IsBuildableRectangle is misleading...
22:03<Samu>doesn't check for the flattyness of the rectangle
22:04<Samu>tile height
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22:09<Samu>hmm directly test building the airport, I wonder if that's faster, non cpu intrusive, testing, brb
22:23<Samu>ok, DoCommand is slow :(
22:23<Samu>now I remember why
22:24<Samu>even in test mode
22:24<Samu>DoCommand slows down the whole thing
22:25<Samu>by slow, I mean adds delay...
22:26<Samu>it's easier on the cpu, but makes the AI feel like it's falling asleep in comparison
22:27<Samu>with the test noise, I iterate 32 towns, without it, I iterate 5 towns
22:28<Samu>in the same time-frame
22:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7451: Add: AI/GS IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
22:37<Samu>already a conflict? that was quick...
22:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7451: Add: AI/GS IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
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23:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7451: Add: AI/GS IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 31 00:00:35 2019