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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-04-08

---Logopened Mon Apr 08 00:00:47 2019
01:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on issue #6873: Jukebox not working in the flatpak version
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02:04<@LordAro>but yes
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02:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on issue #77: Download links in header too long
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04:26<@planetmaker>I... got a reply by DaleStan on my Factorio bug report oO
04:26<@planetmaker>the world is tiny
04:27<andythenorth>DaleStan lives!
04:27<@peter1138>andythenorth, what's different?
04:27<@peter1138>It looks good.
04:27<andythenorth>peter1138: pixels
04:28<andythenorth>what shall I draw next?
04:28<@peter1138>nnyby, wrong advice about adding custom sprites to the game, though.
04:29<andythenorth>I have 3 big newgrf projects
04:29<@peter1138>Ah yes, those round buttons are better.
04:29<andythenorth>and drawing a little bit for each keeps them nicely far away from finished
04:29<andythenorth>sounds familiar? o_O
04:29<Xaroth>andythenorth: you know this perhaps, but tech trees possible with newgrf (plus/minus usage of GS)
04:30<Xaroth>Or is that wishful thinking
04:31<Xaroth>That could be neat
04:31<andythenorth>tech tree would be best handled by OpenTTD
04:31<andythenorth>newgrf could do it, but it would be specific to each newgrf, so quite weird
04:31<andythenorth>GS can't do it, because GS is hopeless
04:32<andythenorth>tech trees would answer the majority of daylength wishes, afaict
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05:04<@peter1138>What would a tech-tree look like in OpenTTD?
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05:06<@peter1138>He's back.
05:11<@LordAro>peter1138: like a low res jpeg screenshot of civ3's tech tree
05:12<@peter1138>Ok, look wasn't the right word :P
05:12<@peter1138>How would a tech tree fit in?
05:16<andythenorth>some kind of epoch / era per vehicle
05:16<andythenorth>or a score
05:16<andythenorth>and then the game advances them at a default rate
05:16<andythenorth>which triggers intro
05:17<andythenorth>default rate is obvs. 1 tech tree year = 1 year
05:17<andythenorth>then let GS manipulate the current state of tech
05:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references.
05:17<andythenorth>bonus points: let industries and houses also understand it
05:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7452: Fix 6fc60d8c4f: forgot to update API changelog
05:20<@peter1138>Ok, I'm going to stop commenting.
05:23<@peter1138>So there's 3 commits marked for backport that have not been merged into master yet.
05:24<andythenorth>or something :P
05:25<@peter1138>Marking things for backport when they don't affect 1.9 is not particularly useful :/
05:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
05:28<@peter1138>planetmaker, so please don't do that ;)
05:29<@peter1138>Oh I missed one.
05:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
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05:48<andythenorth>so given the orders of a train, we should be able to predict statistically the route it will take?
05:48<andythenorth>so we'd know the maximum grade?
05:49<andythenorth>so we could calculate HP-per-ton and the resulting speed over the grade?
05:49<andythenorth>we probably shouldn't :P
05:49<andythenorth>sledgehammer -> nut
05:49<@peter1138>Eh what?
05:50<@peter1138>Which nut are you trying to crack?
05:50<andythenorth>prompted by
05:50<andythenorth>I just run a train over the route, and add more engines if it's too slow :P
05:52<@peter1138> /win 18
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06:05<@planetmaker>peter1138, yes, not yet. But when they are, they are bug fixes which need backporting
06:05<@planetmaker>so ... as it's a thing often overlooked I thought it a good idea to mark them straight away
06:05<@peter1138>Backporting to what?
06:06<@planetmaker>to 1.9.x. Whether that is 1.9.1 or later. In the assumption that the suggested fixes get merged soonish
06:06<@peter1138>But you marked things for backport which don't affect 1.9.
06:08<@planetmaker>Like which?
06:09<@peter1138>#7471, #7456, #7452, #7431
06:09<@peter1138>#7435 and #7419 are okay though :)
06:15<@planetmaker>hm, well. sorry
06:16<@peter1138>Yeah, I'm evaluating my choices here :p
06:16<@peter1138>It's good to have things marked as otherwise we would miss important fixes.
06:16<@peter1138>And it was easy for _me_ know the ones which are not relevant.
06:16<@planetmaker>I looked at what they fixed... but obviously I was not exactly awake
06:21<@peter1138>Hmm, testing out a 32" screen. Somewhat large, aren't they?
06:23*andythenorth lives in a 13" world
06:23<@peter1138>It's not HiDPI though, so I can't test that 4k issue ;)
06:24<@planetmaker>hm, 32" and only 2560x1440?
06:24<@planetmaker>One of my monitors quit on me the other day... now I'm pondering to replace both... by larger ones
06:24<@peter1138>Definitely doesn't need to be on a stand to raise it.
06:25<@planetmaker>or just taking one big one... but hm
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06:25<@peter1138>Yes, pixel size is pretty good though, about equivalent to 23" 1080p.
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06:25<@peter1138>Yes, pixel size is pretty good though, about equivalent to 23" 1080p.
06:25<@peter1138>If I was buying one for myself I'd want 4k though.
06:26<@peter1138>Or 5k? I think Apple have 5k screens.
06:27<andythenorth>they sell an LG or something
06:28<@peter1138>I think 32" is too big!
06:28<@peter1138>I'm going to get neck strain.
06:30<@planetmaker>move your chair backwards :)
06:30<@peter1138>Yeah perhaps.
06:30<@planetmaker>will be a total win... moving so far back that the bigger screen has the same viewing angle as the old, smaller one :P
06:31<@peter1138>1080 -> 1440 is much more of an improvement than I'd imagined, though.
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06:32<@planetmaker>don't browse and chat :P
06:33<@peter1138>So my issue is I currently have 3x 22" 1680x1050 monitors at home.
06:34<@peter1138>If I get wider monitors, I can only fit 2x in.
06:34<@planetmaker>upright or landscape?
06:34<@planetmaker>that's pretty wide :)
06:34<@peter1138>It's pretty good for driving games :-)
06:34<@peter1138>Also good for developing OpenTTD.
06:34<@planetmaker>for openttd 1024 x 256 maps :P
06:35<@peter1138>I tend to run things in half-width full-height windows.
06:35<@planetmaker>see everything concurrently... it's interesting
06:35<@peter1138>So I get 6 views concurrently.
06:35<@peter1138>Usually a source view, a compilation view, or git/tig output.
06:35<@planetmaker>yo, for dev many screens is gold
06:35<@peter1138>IRC on another screen :)
06:36<@peter1138>But yeah, if I dropped back to 2 screen, I'd have a horrible bezel right in the middle.
06:36<@planetmaker>doesn't matter for dev... but yes, car racing :D
06:39<@peter1138>To be fair, since I got back into OpenTTD coding, I really haven't done anything much else.
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06:39<@planetmaker>it quickly eats a lot of time
06:44<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe I should test #7484 on this screen
06:44<@peter1138>Maybe I should do some work.
07:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7488: Fix: Crash due to use of invalid iterator in ClientNetworkContentSocketHandler
07:20<@peter1138>Github is quite nice at 1280x1440 :-)
07:35<@peter1138>Hmm, not sure on #7460, two ways to fix it, one like in the PR, and the other is as in my comment.
07:40<milek7>does it work? there should be one server available
07:42<V453000>where is our train photo specialist Mr. North
07:45<@peter1138>It loaded but the music was loud in the office so I had to close it :p
07:46<V453000>seems to work
07:47<milek7>multiplayer too?
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07:48<V453000>didn't try that, already closed :d
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07:59<pnda>Why do I feel like a lot of devs have strange monitors
08:01<pnda>Like peter said 1280x1440. Is that not 3:4?
08:03<V453000>well you usually say x first and that's not 4:3 I think :)
08:03<V453000>so suspicion is in place :D
08:03<pnda>0,89:1 ... uhh
08:05<@peter1138>No, it's not 4:3 :p
08:06<@peter1138>It's also half the screen.
08:06<pnda>So what is the total resolution?
08:07<@peter1138>Not excessive for 32"
08:07<pnda>1440p is quite normal at 32"
08:07<pnda>I'm getting a 1440p with 29"
08:07<@peter1138>Colours are very vibrant. Hmm.
08:08<pnda>So I guess a IPS screen?
08:08<@peter1138>Viewsonic VX3211-2K-mhd
08:09<pnda>Ah that one.. relatively mid-level but good
08:10<@peter1138>Yeah, mid-range.
08:11<pnda>With my next update I'll have 3 screens, 1x 2560x1440, 1x 2560x1080, 1x 1920x1080... Yes a quite weird setup
08:11<V453000>that's what I suspected :)
08:12*peter1138 has 3x 1680x1050 at home. Very old-school.
08:12<pnda>You're at work? huh and yes that's quite an oud
08:13<pnda>oudated setup*
08:13<@LordAro>it still displays stuff, doesn't it?
08:13<@peter1138>Mostly :)
08:13<@LordAro>not outdated then :p
08:14<@peter1138>And I'm not using VGA with any of them, so that's a plus.
08:14<Xaroth>I'm using 2x 2560*1440p, the amount of space it gives is awesome :P
08:15<pnda>I love 1440p, but I sadly only have the money for one high-end 1440p monitor so I decided to keep my 2 current ones and mount the current main above to the wall
08:15<@peter1138>I might consider moving my computer elsewhere so I can upgrade.
08:15<@peter1138>Or just drop back to 2 screens.
08:15*LordAro has 3x1080p
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08:15<@LordAro>at work
08:16<@LordAro>2x1080p, 1x1440p at home
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08:28<Samu>startai command in the console is tricky
08:30<@peter1138>Ah, hitting the sprite cache limit kills performance, heh
08:36<Samu>do you remember that last random deviation fix?
08:37<Samu>for some reason, when start date is a value other than 0 and the ai is random ai, no random deviation occurs
08:37<Samu>and should occur
08:38<Samu>looks like last fix, fix one thing, but broke another
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08:54<Samu>this is so complex to follow
09:34<pnda>Do fields from farms have any special name? sub-industries?
09:39<@peter1138>"fields" ;)
09:40<pnda>Well they could be unified
09:40<@peter1138>The tile type is the same as a clear type.
09:40<@peter1138>The tile type is the same as a clear tile.
09:40<@peter1138>Unified with what and why?
09:41<pnda>Why not let a industry, from a GRF, specify a special type of tile that works just like fields and gets placed randomly in a radius of the industry
09:42<@planetmaker> @ pnda
09:43<pnda>Ahhhh wasn't this already a thing with industry behaviour?
09:43<@LordAro>pnda: you might find that a lot of the answers to your questions are "because no one has done it yet"
09:44<@LordAro>oil rigs are the other obvious example
09:47<Samu>field fences are the 2nd most cpu intensive from tileloop
09:47<Samu>first being water flood
09:51<@planetmaker> was what I actually looked for @ pnda
09:51<@planetmaker>but it's related :P
09:52<@planetmaker>That callback 3B does not exactly exist (yet)
09:52<@planetmaker>to the extend described there
10:02<_dp_>ffs asrock, 2h driver download :(
10:03<_dp_>modern file sizes dont mix well with 90s speeds
10:03<V453000>it's called rock made out of ass for a reason :P
10:03<V453000> /me has assus
10:04<V453000>idk what is it with motherboard manufacturers and ass obsession
10:04<V453000>I will see myself out.
10:04<_dp_>it probably mean something cool in chinese :)
10:06<V453000>something along the lines of ass
10:06<pnda>ffs asus giving me a broken gpu... I think that's worse than a long driver download ^^
10:07<pnda>planetmaker: does frosch still work on CB 3B & is whats done available in trunk/master?
10:08<@planetmaker>I don't think so. It's a collection of ideas
10:08<@planetmaker>master allows industries to plant fields. Or trees. But you knew that.
10:08<@planetmaker>that is done via CB 38
10:08<@planetmaker>err. 3B
10:08<Samu>after furher investigation, looks like random deviation fix didn't break anything, just tested without that fix, and it still happens. It was already there
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10:09<Samu>the bug was already present even before the fix
10:10<Samu>so the bug is this:
10:10<Samu>set up random AIs
10:10<Samu>start new game
10:11<Samu>random deviation doesn't occur for start_date even when it's not 0
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10:23<Samu>i fail at understanding what the heck SettingValueList::const_iterator is doing
10:24<Samu>but this is the thing where start_date is sometimes pulled out, and some other times not
10:26<Samu>this->settings[stredup((*it).first)] = (*it).second;
10:27<Samu>stredup((*it).first) is "start_date"
10:27<Samu>but this->settings has a size of 0
10:27<Samu>something doesn't feel right
10:28<Samu>what would this->settings["start_date"] be getting if this->settings is size=0 ?
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10:36<@LordAro>Samu: it's a map, it automatically creates new entries
10:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
10:39<Samu>I see
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10:43<Samu>there's ScriptConfigItemList::const_iterator
10:44<Samu>and there's SettingValueList::const_iterator
10:44<Samu>too easy to get confused
10:45<nielsm>nothing to be confused about, they're different types
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11:16<Samu>ScriptConfigItemList doesn't contain "start_date" on Random AIs, so when random valuator is called, it doesn't do anything about it
11:16<Samu>random deviation*
11:17<Samu>doesn't find it
11:17<Samu>how to fix?
11:37<@peter1138>Do we do a RC for 1.9.1?
11:39<nielsm>if it's just bug fixes and it looks safe imo not
11:39<pnda>If at all only one I'd say
11:39<nielsm>if it turns out to introduce new bugs then fast-track 1.9.2
11:40<@peter1138>Would be good to release tonight as it's 1 week after 1.9.0 ;)
11:41<pnda>Would all backport-requested PRs then get merged?
11:42<Samu> map() : _Mybase(key_compare()) { // construct empty map from defaults
11:43<Samu>where is this map?
11:43<Samu>this is so obscure
11:43<nielsm>it's part of the C++ standard template library
11:43<@peter1138>pnda, only if they're already merged into master.
11:44<Samu>or maybe a better question, where does it get the defaults?
11:44<@peter1138>Hmm, doing the changelog is awkward. The commit messages by themselves usually lack context and make no sense for a public list.
11:45<@peter1138>Ah, #7483 could be backported too.
11:45<@peter1138>If it's merged.
11:53<Samu>- config_list { size=??? } std::list<ScriptConfigItem,std::allocator<ScriptConfigItem> >
11:53<Samu>- config_list 0xcdcdcdcdcdcdcdcd { size=??? } std::list<ScriptConfigItem,std::allocator<ScriptConfigItem> > *
11:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
11:53<Samu>there are 2 config_lists
11:53<Samu>and then there still settings
11:54<Samu>3 lists with pretty much the same thing
11:54<Samu>so confusing
12:14<V453000>bottom version, aye?
12:14<V453000>ofc colours and textures not final
12:14<V453000>just deciding design
12:15<nielsm>bottom looks nicer
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12:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7481: Fast forwarding very fast can cause window.cpp/kdtree.hpp crash
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12:29<Samu>line 77 of script_config.cpp is failing to do what's supposed to be doing
12:30<Samu>this->PushExtraConfigList(); should add the start_date to the config_list
12:30<Samu> virtual void PushExtraConfigList() {};
12:30<Samu>it does nothing :(
12:31<@Alberth>it's virtual, a derived class may be doing something
12:32<@Alberth>although I fail to see how a function PushExtraConfigList() would do anything with start_date
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12:32<Samu>should do this
12:33<Samu>but that one is void AIConfig::PushExtraConfigList()
12:35<@peter1138>Oh my god my 1680x1050 screens feel tiny now :(
12:36<Samu>new AIConfig(_settings_newgame.ai_config[c]); this is the root function
12:39<@Alberth>got a bit spoiled peter :)
12:40<V453000>3440 x 1440 master race <3
12:40<nielsm>I kind of want a non-wide screen for coding on...
12:41<nielsm>(someone is going to respond "get a gigantic display and split it in halves")
12:42<@peter1138>If it's big enough, that does work really well.
12:43<@Alberth>rotate it 90 degrees niels?
12:43<milek7>hm, emscripten sdl2 video output is slow on higher resolutions, 20ms+
12:45<nielsm>Alberth that tends to become too tall for comfort
12:45<@peter1138>I find the subpixel arrangement irritating if the screen is rotated.
12:46<nielsm>2048x1536 would be a good display size
12:46<@Alberth>2nd hand shops perhaps
12:47<@peter1138>If you're lucky you might find 1600x1200.
12:47<@Alberth>and nobody said you have to use the entire height :)
12:48<nielsm>at work I do have one display in vertical
12:49<nielsm>rather expensive, but then it is eizo
12:49<@peter1138>Probably an old model anyway.
12:50<nielsm>"Date First Available 20 Oct. 2013"
12:50<@peter1138>Oh not that bad.
12:51<@peter1138>Probably missing quite a chunk of cost-saving tech, though.
12:51<nielsm>now if just they would begin making OLED panel computer displays
12:51<nielsm>instead of reserving the tech for 10 inch tablets and 53 inch televisions
12:51<nielsm>and nothing in-between
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12:54*peter1138 tests 7484.
12:54<@peter1138>Minor improvement already on ProZone 13.
12:54<@peter1138>Which doesn't have too much going on.
12:55<V453000>nice game to test with :P
12:55<@peter1138>Graphics rendering drops about .75ms
12:56<@peter1138>Emperor Jake's NetTrans is good for this patch, I think
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12:56<@peter1138>If you can find all the NewGRFs...
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13:01<@peter1138>Ahmm, 61ms -> 55ms
13:02<@peter1138>That's half-width.
13:02*peter1138 tries full screen.
13:02<@peter1138>Still only about 5ms.
13:02<@peter1138>Hmm, less now it's settling.
13:03<@peter1138>Oh god my eyes.
13:05<V453000>h8 zbase? :P
13:06<@planetmaker>only thing it's missing is some shading on vehicles
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the jpeg artifacts, right?
13:06<@peter1138>Shading. Detail. Correct sizing...
13:06<@peter1138>Quite a lot missing.
13:06<@peter1138>It's a shame I can't draw for shit.
13:06<@planetmaker>no. That's just not your graphics style
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>is that a donkey or a horse on the plaza?
13:07<@planetmaker>judging all graphics by "is it sufficiently similar to ttd" won't cut it. It's a bit ... pop art style
13:07<nielsm>isn't the statue a spider?
13:08<nielsm>(in original graphics)
13:08<@planetmaker>here it is a fossil dinosaur :P
13:08<@Alberth>I was thinking mule :)
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>so something between "both" or "neither"?
13:09<@Alberth>likely :p
13:09<@peter1138>I'm just judging it by "does it look good"
13:09<@peter1138>And that is, IMHO, no.
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's the weird thing, some things don't need to be good to find their target audience
13:11<@peter1138>Quite. See Brexit.
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>is that actually happening now?
13:12<@peter1138>Hmm, well, 7484 is marginally faster on this game, so that's something.
13:12<@Alberth>it may be simpler to have another election about it, and it gets voted 'no' :p
13:13<@peter1138>Did you hear one of the Hard-brexiters in the government is now... calling for a revote... because we know more now... and the outcome would be different...
13:13<@peter1138>But not on Brexit, no.
13:14<@peter1138>On the no-confidence motion in their leader.
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13:15<@Alberth>planetmaker: unsticky the titlescreen competition thread?
13:15<@planetmaker>good point
13:16<@peter1138>Hmm, now this patch is about 4K resolutions being slow.
13:16<@peter1138>I'm on 1680x1050, so kinda... not comparable.
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>try zooming out?
13:18<@peter1138>Yeah, it's about 4K resolutions being slow when zoomed out...
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>try zooming out further? :p
13:18<V453000>I did notice massive slowdown when zooming to 0.5
13:18<V453000>3440 x 1440
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: thanks for volunteering as test subject :p
13:19<V453000>so not full 4k
13:19<@peter1138>That might just be sprite cache size.
13:19<V453000>I'd love to test, but you'll need to show me how to build openttd on windows first :P
13:19<andythenorth>what's slow?
13:19<@peter1138>This particular issue is with lots of overlapping sprites, stressing the sprite sorter.
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>so, like, bridges?
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>trucks in towns with large buildings
13:21<@peter1138>Well, not overlapping.
13:21<@peter1138>Just lots of sprites. They all need sorting.
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>i'm assuming non-overlapping is harder to get into worst-case sorting?
13:22<@peter1138>I guess l
13:27<@peter1138>Hmm, it was FIRS that broke before.
13:28<@peter1138>Nope, still broken.
13:28<andythenorth>FIRS did what to you now?
13:28<andythenorth>delete it!
13:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7484: Codechange: Sprite sorting optimization
13:29<@peter1138>Well that solves that dilemma :p
13:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame.
13:31<Samu>well, that PR fixes 2 things now :|
13:32<Samu>took me a while to understand where the problem was
13:37<Samu>this->info == NULL aka I'm a random AI, i think
13:38<Samu>ScriptConfig constructor thing doesn't construct the start_date in random AI
13:39<Samu>so there was no setting at all to deviate
13:40<Samu>PushExtraConfigList calls the AI version of the function which adds the "start_date"
13:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7460: Fix #6222: Advanced sprite layout sometimes showed incorrect railtype ground tile.
13:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7460: Fix #6222: Advanced sprite layout sometimes showed incorrect railtype ground tile.
13:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7460: Fix #6222: Advanced sprite layout sometimes showed incorrect railtype ground tile.
13:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #6222: Stations: using property 1A sometimes shows incorrect railtype ground tile
13:41<Samu>AddRandomDeviation then calls the AI version of the function which already does the right thing, so that's why it doesn't run the 2nd part of the code
13:42<@peter1138>Many spam.
13:43<andythenorth>at least 7
13:44<@peter1138>Well, I can't backport things which are merged yet. Hmm.
13:44<Samu>does this PR deserve backporting?
13:45<Samu>probably not
13:45<Samu>start_date = 0 isn't a thing in 1.9
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13:47<Samu> is this in 1.9.0 ?
13:47<Samu>makes no sense if it is because start_date = 0 isn't
13:48<@peter1138>Samu, all your crap was already reverted for 1.9
13:48<Samu>where is it
13:50<Samu>it's in 1.9
13:50<Samu>that wasn't reverted
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13:51<@peter1138>Oh well.
13:51<@peter1138>You're the only person using AIs like that anyway.
13:51<@peter1138>So it hardly matters.
13:52<@peter1138>So are we merging #7480 or not?
13:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7480: Fix #6666: arabic town directory strings
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13:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
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13:59<@peter1138>Do I reset APPV_BUILD from 4 to 0 for 1.9.1?
13:59<pnda>peter1138 Would the PR not have to be renamed if those two strings are fixed?
14:00<@peter1138>pnda, I have no idea.
14:00<@peter1138>Doesn't necessarily need to be fixed there, just mentioned it as related.
14:00<pnda>I can fix it there, would be easier to oversee
14:05<@LordAro>peter1138: might as well
14:07<@peter1138>6 PRs backported now o_O
14:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame.
14:07<andythenorth>anyone drawn the Carbon Black Plant for FIRS yet? o_O
14:09<@peter1138>"Action 4 has feature 48 'original strings'"
14:09<@peter1138>Doesn't really translate well to a changelog :p
14:10<@LordAro>"fix: newgrf station strings did not display"
14:10<nielsm>"Action 4 feature 48 strings were not being loaded from NewGRFs causing various bugs"
14:10<@peter1138>Not just stations :-)
14:10<@LordAro>some newgrf strings...
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14:11<@peter1138>Missing NewGRF strings due to Action 4 feature check skipping pseudo-feature 48
14:11<@peter1138>Pom te pom.
14:11<@peter1138>Not quite. But.
14:12<frosch123>"make newgrf older than 2010 work again"
14:12<nielsm>make newgrf old again
14:13<nielsm>old new grfs
14:13<@peter1138> < and that? :p
14:14<@peter1138>There's some open PRs tagged for backport. Anyone dare approve them?
14:14<@peter1138>Might be getting into 1.9.2 territory.
14:15<@peter1138>They're not exactly critical thouhg.
14:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7483: Fix #7478: Don't remove NewGRF objects on company take-over.
14:16<nielsm>Fix: [Windows] Error in error handling could lead to erroneous error boxes
14:17<nielsm>Fix: [Windows] Incorrect error handling could lead to cascading error boxes
14:18<Samu>and bsod
14:18<@peter1138>- Fix: [Windows] Incorrect error handling could lead to cascading error windows (#7482)
14:18<@peter1138>Going with that.
14:20<@peter1138>Is #7478 safe enough to backport? Seems quite simple to me.
14:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7478: Newobject disapears if company owner get buyed by another company
14:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7483: Fix #7478: Don't remove NewGRF objects on company take-over.
14:21<nielsm>it's probably fine
14:26<andythenorth>'probably fine' is the best
14:28<pnda>Seems I fixed the other arabic strings
14:28<pnda>Are there any other known ones?
14:30<pnda>ok these are still broken...
14:36<pnda>How the hell did this happen
14:37<@LordAro>i think you broke it
14:39<pnda>How the hell did this happen though
14:40<@LordAro>well those look like strgen errors
14:40<@LordAro>so the lang file has been mangled in some way
14:40<pnda>I know... but it isn't shown by VS
14:40<pnda>GitHub Desktop shows this
14:40<@LordAro>bet that's a BOM
14:41<pnda>Well i just stashed it
14:41<pnda>I'll redo it
14:41<@LordAro>aiui VS does like to add BOMs sometimes
14:41<pnda>Didn't use VS Code
14:41<pnda>Only touched this file with VS
14:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
14:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
14:44<TrueBrain>sorry peter1138, seems I am incapable of switching branches before hitting 'git push' :(
14:44<pnda>Now why thell is it skipping building the .exe
14:45<TrueBrain>change rename the PR: stuff for 1.9.1, and you will be fine :P
14:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
14:47<andythenorth>it's TrueBrain !
14:48<pnda>It even shows correctly
14:49<@peter1138>I've got the "release 1.9.1" PR with the changelog done as well.
14:49<TrueBrain>yeah, my commits should have gone in that one I guess :D
14:49<@peter1138>Does not matter.
14:49<TrueBrain>not really, no
14:50<@peter1138>The backport_1.9 stuff also included the translations, and they are backports, so it's all good.
14:50<TrueBrain>yeah, I mostly did everything from a single branch :P
14:50<pnda>whyyyyyyy is the VS formatting soooooo bad
14:52<pnda>6>Project not selected to build for this solution configuration
14:53<Samu>use Notepad++
14:53<pnda>to compile?
14:53<pnda>lol don't even have notepad++
14:53<Samu>no, to avoid those weird vs additions
14:53<Samu>bom stuff
14:53<pnda>they aren't happening now
14:54<pnda>And have never happened
14:54<pnda>so I'll leave it
14:56<Samu>i need an AI that makes use of random deviation in one of its settings
14:56<Samu>eh, might as well be mine, brb
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14:59<pnda>thiiissss iss annoying meeeeeeeee
15:03<@peter1138>All checks passed...
15:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
15:05<pnda>Whyyyy do I have to rebuild each time
15:05<pnda>I seem to have a fix but that requires to have {BLACK} inbetween each part of the string
15:05<TrueBrain>just don't forget to update the labels or something peter1138 :)
15:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7487: Backport marked PRs to 1.9.1
15:08<@peter1138>Like that.
15:08-!-synchris [~synchris@] has quit [Quit: yeeha!]
15:08<TrueBrain>missed ?
15:08<TrueBrain>and nice :)
15:09<@peter1138>Was another page :D
15:10<andythenorth>shall we ship the website?
15:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7489: Update: Changelog for 1.9.1 and prepare for release
15:12<@peter1138>So... I hope I got everything :p
15:13<TrueBrain>looks okay to me
15:13<TrueBrain>hopefully LordAro likes your changelog :D
15:13<@peter1138>I missed one.
15:13<milek7>TrueBrain: have you seen new emscripten build, with network? :)
15:14<TrueBrain>link to patch?
15:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7489: Update: Changelog for 1.9.1 and prepare for release
15:14<@peter1138>OS2 installer. Probably doesn't even work, mind you...
15:15<TrueBrain>orudge promised to look at it :P
15:16<TrueBrain>that is no patch :)
15:17<@peter1138>Maybe it needs no patching? :LD
15:18<@peter1138>So pressing the "Exit" button stops the game but leaves the music running.
15:18<TrueBrain>and that works without some proxy?
15:19<TrueBrain>wasm allows raw network sockets?
15:19<milek7>no, it requires proxy
15:19<TrueBrain>how does that look like?
15:20<TrueBrain>most of that patch can be upstreamed without much issue, so that is nice
15:21<@peter1138>Ah yeah, sockets only work to the server hosting it, right?
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15:22<nielsm>so you could still make a wrapper (docker?) that runs an ottd-dedicated and serves a wasm version up
15:22<@peter1138>So that `` -> `` change... ought to be improved.
15:22<milek7>you can use other servers, but must be websocket and https
15:23<@peter1138>I was just going to say, is the proxy available or some proprietory glue that you keep to yourself to be evil ;D
15:24<@peter1138>#7489 passes, woo.
15:24<@peter1138>Did I do it right? :p
15:24<milek7>ordinary websocket proxies don't work because it must redirect to proper tcp/udp from single websocket port
15:24<TrueBrain>nice work milek7 :)
15:25<TrueBrain>I don't see any real blockers to move this to tbh :)
15:26<milek7>sdl video output annoys me, it gets much slower at higher resolutions
15:26<milek7>i need to look into it
15:27<TrueBrain>I still think that would be cool to add to the site .. :D
15:27<TrueBrain>but does need cloud storage tbh :P
15:28<milek7>saving in browser storage isn't enough? ;p
15:28<TrueBrain>it "works" :P
15:29<@peter1138>Cloud stroage.
15:29<pnda>I can't seem to fix this
15:29<TrueBrain>what is the average savegame size, give or take?
15:30<@peter1138>#7489 for review? ;)
15:31<TrueBrain>if someone else can look at the changelog; I am fine with the rest
15:34*peter1138 sips a bit of birthday Whiksy.
15:34<pnda>Ok I can actually not fix these arabic strings :(
15:35<milek7>"most of that patch"
15:35<milek7>^ so there's something that couldn't be upstreamed?
15:35<pnda>also annoying I have to rebuild the solution each time
15:35<nielsm>you'll probably need to LRE marks for that pnda
15:35<pnda>didn't have to for the town directories though
15:35<V453000>_dp_: how the hell did you get into a circumstance of making a map with that many stations? :D some script went nuts?
15:35<nielsm>and huh? you shouldn't need to rebuild anything other than a single language file when not changing english.txt
15:36<pnda>when I just do a build
15:36<pnda>it skipps creating the .exe
15:36<pnda>for some reason
15:36<nielsm>yeah that one doesn't need updating
15:36<@peter1138>V453000, pretty sure it's a script, and deliberate :-)
15:36<nielsm>the language data are in external files
15:36<pnda>right.... stupid me
15:37<V453000>deliberate WHY :D WTF (:
15:37<@peter1138>For testing? heh
15:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7489: Update: Changelog for 1.9.1 and prepare for release
15:37<pnda>Ok I found a way to fix this. But this requires removing one part of the string.... hmm
15:37<TrueBrain>to avoid waiting for hours :P
15:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7489: Update: Changelog for 1.9.1 and prepare for release
15:38<@peter1138>Okay now what.
15:38<TrueBrain>GitHub -> Releases -> Create -> 1.9.1
15:38<pnda>Just having قياسي) نوع المحرك) results in that bug, if I remove the first part its normal
15:38<@peter1138>LordAro was here! Just hiding!
15:38<TrueBrain>he didnt want to read some changelogs
15:38<TrueBrain>the hate
15:38<@LordAro>peter1138: i'm always watching
15:38<TrueBrain> <- Draft New Releases
15:38-!-pnda [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:38<TrueBrain>to be more exact
15:38<TrueBrain>select the right commit
15:39<@peter1138>So... "1.9.1" @ "Target: release/1.9" ?
15:40<TrueBrain>sounds good
15:40<@peter1138>Hmm, draft or "publish release" ?
15:40<@peter1138>Cos I'm scared ;)
15:41<TrueBrain>publish :)
15:41<TrueBrain>looks good
15:41<TrueBrain>now it is just: wait :)
15:41<@peter1138>DorpsGek_II, y u no notification
15:41<TrueBrain> kicked in
15:41<TrueBrain>yeah ... that needs fixing
15:41<@peter1138>Btw, in my 15 years of OpenTTDing, this is my first release.
15:41<TrueBrain>and don't forget to follow :)
15:41<TrueBrain>gratz :D
15:42<@peter1138>Oh now you tell me lol
15:42<TrueBrain>it helps to tell what to do after release, at least, for me
15:42<TrueBrain>I always forget something .. like IRC :P
15:43<TrueBrain>basically, poke planetmaker
15:43<TrueBrain>which most likely will forget :P
15:43<TrueBrain>@topic set 0 1.9.1
15:43-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 0 1.9.1
15:43<TrueBrain>I knew I would fuck that up some day :P
15:44<TrueBrain>meh .. this client doesnt say what the topic was
15:44<TrueBrain>@op TrueBrain_
15:44-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain_] by DorpsGek
15:44-!-TrueBrain_ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.9.1 | Website: * (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only
15:45<TrueBrain>@deop TrueBrain_
15:45-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain_] by DorpsGek
15:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jmakovicka updated pull request #7484: Codechange: Sprite sorting optimization
15:47<Samu> I'm still unsure about that deviation being prevented
15:47<@peter1138>Hmm, so, news message on the website :/
15:48<_dp_>just thought of ultimate color challenge: sorting socks after washing
15:48<Samu>this->info != NULL also means random ais are being ignored, and they have start_date as a valid deviator
15:48<_dp_>way more difficult than that xrite thing
15:48*_dp_ doesn't get perfect score on socks :(
15:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jmakovicka commented on pull request #7484: Codechange: Sprite sorting optimization
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15:51<pnda>When is the website going up for 1.9.1?
15:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7453: Remove AutoDeleteSmallVector and AutoFreeSmallVector
15:54<pnda>Also, for the arabic strings: If I have ({ArabicWord}) {ArabicWord2}, the first bracket will ALWAYS go to the end of the string, due to it not being attached to the arabic words.
15:54<pnda>If I were to remove the {ArabicWord2}, the string would work fine.
15:58<pnda>But I guess I'll have to this tomorrow.... So good night
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16:09<TrueBrain>heffer: we release 1.9.1 :) Just as a friendly poke :)
16:12<milek7>it ignores dirty areas and copies always whole frame ;/
16:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7350: Change: Add pid, file, line number & function/procedure name to debug messages
16:35<@peter1138>Got water pipe issues :(
16:38<@peter1138>Great, my VM won't boot.
16:39<@peter1138>Alright, now it's running. Odd :p
17:07<Samu>1.9.1 is out?
17:07<Samu>1.9.0 was short lived :(
17:07<@LordAro>does everything make you sad?
17:09<Samu>:( no
17:09<Samu>just a bad habit
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17:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] PeterN opened pull request #78: Add: Release post for 1.9.1
17:15<@LordAro>random thought, should it link to latest.html, or 1.9.1.html ?
17:17-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:17<@planetmaker>I'm torn. But in a release posting probably to the specific version?
17:18<@LordAro>but equally we don't want people looking at old release posts and downloading old versions
17:18<@planetmaker>and... orudge already replyed very friendly
17:18<@peter1138>I copied the last one, so...
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17:28<Xaroth>"there are no bugs left"
17:28<Xaroth>that's optimistic :P
17:31<Samu>random deviance is computed twice for start_date in some occasions, but the 2nd time it is done, it no longer matters
17:31<Samu>it's an ai starting
17:32<Samu>doesn't matter which value it gets after it is started
17:33<Samu>or does it?
17:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7490: Add: Press ctrl to build diagonal rivers in scenario editor.
17:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] michicc approved pull request #78: Add: Release post for 1.9.1
17:34<Samu>saving game and loading it back with a different value than that it was used to start with
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17:36<andythenorth>also bed
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17:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] PeterN merged pull request #78: Add: Release post for 1.9.1
17:43<@peter1138>"For rail types a number of callbacks are used to define rail type graphics"
17:43<@peter1138>Why does the NML spec call it a "callback"? o_O
17:44<Supercheese>Hysterical raisins
17:47<_dp_>damn, wanted to make first 1.9.1 server but someone beat me to it %)
17:48<_dp_>still the first open one :p
17:52*peter1138 installs OpenTTD 1.9.1
17:52<@peter1138>Damn, TrueBrain is a massive hero. This CI and deployment stuff is so cool.
17:53<Samu>this start_date parameter is utterly difficult to track down
17:54<@peter1138>_dp_, "If you're new to your servers please read" ...
17:54<@peter1138>Okay that map is far to boring and flat for me.
17:54<Samu>I wonder, would it be a good idea to get rid of it?
17:54<@peter1138>And not enough water for ships to be fun.
17:55<Samu>there's too many corner cases where it doesn't work as it should
17:59<_dp_>peter1138, oh, ty
17:59<_dp_>peter1138, you're the first one to read that message I guess xD
17:59<Samu>ok, here's a new issue: when a Random AI is set up, starting a new game will do a random deviation for start_date. Then when the AI actually starts in game, random deviation is done again for start_date + any other settings the randomly chosen AI has
17:59<Samu>how to avoid doing it a 2nd time?
18:00<_dp_>peter1138, and idk about 1.9 but before ships it mp weren't fun at all ;)
18:00<_dp_>peter1138, also it's an easy game mode for new players
18:00<Samu>avoid doing it for start_date only, but do for the other settings
18:00<_dp_>peter1138, and it have a goal that provides enough extra entertainment
18:01<Samu>wondering if this is caused by my last fix, reverting, brb
18:02<@peter1138>Ships are definitely no fun when the only water is a few small lakes.
18:04<_dp_>peter1138, even if there was water ships don't rly have a purpose on goal servers
18:04<_dp_>peter1138, exept for abusing them by stacking in a small pond
18:06<_dp_>though even that is quite pointless for such an easy goal
18:07<Xaroth>bankruptcy counter update isn't sent to the admin port
18:07<_dp_>you mean how long is company in negative?
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18:08<Samu>it was my fix :(
18:08<_dp_>well, a lot of stuff isn't sent I guess
18:08<Xaroth>Most of it is sent in ServerCompanyStats/ServerCompanyEconomy
18:08<Samu>fixes one thing, but breaks somewhere else
18:09<_dp_>I'm not even using normal admin port anymore, wrote my own protocol %)
18:09<Xaroth>meh, the Admin Port has been stable for at least 6 years now, so that has to count for something
18:09<Xaroth>maybe not bug-free, but still
18:11<@peter1138>Well, there's ways to get things fixed.
18:11<@peter1138>Bug reports, or even better, PRs.
18:12<_dp_>peter1138, I don't even know what I'm doing with it, hard to make a reasonable PR like that :p
18:12<@LordAro>Xaroth: tbf, "stable" != "useful"
18:12<+glx>Samu: you already did something for the start_date
18:13<Xaroth>I was contemplating adding an example to libottdadmin2's rework to use the admin port for a simple read-only API
18:13<Samu>I'll write in the PR, cus this is all too difficult to track down
18:14<_dp_>peter1138, I did some custom binary thing to record games then I didn't like something in admin port so I thought hey, I have binary thing and it would be cool but instead of using that thing I made a new thing because it's going to be better except it's not yet...
18:14<@peter1138>Err? What?
18:14<_dp_>tldl it's a mess xD
18:14<@peter1138>I was kinda talking to Xaroth :p
18:15<Xaroth>peter1138: the word 'json' was missing somewhere in that sentence
18:17<Xaroth>but more, tomorrow, nn
18:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame.
18:17<@peter1138>Right, bug closing time.
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18:19<@peter1138>Hmm, how do I reference the release in an issue? :p
18:19<@peter1138>Referencing its PR feels wrong.
18:19<@LordAro>link to the news post :p
18:19<@LordAro>there's no builtin GH way, afaict
18:20<dwfreed>you could set the milestone
18:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7476: Can't Refit Certain NewGRF Trains (undefined string error)
18:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7476: Can't Refit Certain NewGRF Trains (undefined string error)
18:21<dwfreed>but that's not quite the same
18:21<@peter1138>Eh, well, that's shitty too.
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18:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7466: New GRF Stations Not Showing Up
18:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7466: New GRF Stations Not Showing Up
18:21<@peter1138>I think those were the only two.
18:23<TrueBrain>LordAro: always link to latest. someone that finds the news of 1.9.0 for example you want him to download 1.9.1 .. people rarely want one specific version. all news posts always point to latest for this reason
18:23<TrueBrain>as a FYI :)
18:23<TrueBrain>and tnx peter1138, happy to see the effort was worth it :)
18:27<Samu>yeah glx, that start_date = 0 just adds more trouble to the already troubled start_date
18:27<Samu>pff little did I know
18:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7484: Codechange: Sprite sorting optimization
18:33<Samu>start_date deviation must occur for random AI when MakeNewgameSettingsLive on openttd.cpp is called
18:34<Samu>for getting the next AI starting time
18:35<Samu>it's how it works when there's an actual script selected
18:36<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe sleep.
18:37<Samu>so that 2nd thing I fix is needed, but then, ai_core.cpp, when actually starting a random ai, picks one randomly from the available list and performs a Change right before anchoring unchangeable settings
18:38<Samu>line 51 ai_core.cpp
18:39<Samu>how to solve
18:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7051: Feature: Moveable depots #6328
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19:19<@LordAro>oh, when did it become tomorrow?
19:19*LordAro slep
19:27<@peter1138>Oh shit
19:27<@peter1138>It did didn't it.
19:27<@peter1138>So much for early night :(
19:28<heffer>TrueBrain: thanks. working on the update just now :)
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19:33<Eddi|zuHause>wait, really? these tomorrows seem to always sneak up on you
19:42<heffer>Here it is still tonight. So we're all good
19:43<heffer>Also TrueBrain's release notifications are faster than Fedora's: [5:09:16 p.m.] <fedora-notif> A new version of "openttd" has been detected: "1.9.1" newer than "1.9.0", packaged as "openttd"
19:44<luaduck>howdy, does still get updated?
19:44<luaduck>I think it's detached from github or something, it still shows 1.8.0 as being the latest version
19:45<luaduck>breaks my build script
19:45<@peter1138>I think you answered your own question.
19:46<luaduck>it'd be annoying, but I could probably reengineer my script to check git tags
19:46<@peter1138>There's another metadata source, but I don't remember where.
19:46<luaduck>finger was (is?) just a convenient way of doing that in a scrapable way
19:48<_dp_>ppl still complain about cursor on windows...
19:49<+glx>finger has been replaced I think
19:50<@peter1138>_dp_, yup, we haven't changed anything about it, so no surprise that it's not fixed.
19:51<_dp_>peter1138, there was something about it in 1.8 iirc
19:51<luaduck>peter1138: ta
19:52<+glx>for all details
19:54<@peter1138>Yeah, treat that URL as temporary, I guess.
19:55<@peter1138>_dp_, not that I know of.
19:56<_dp_>peter1138, mb it was cursor locking
19:57<_dp_>peter1138, I just remember there was cursor-windows-something xD
19:58<_dp_>in the past n years....
19:58*_dp_ being very informative...
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20:17<milek7>I have feeling that I still live under non-DST time
20:18<Samu>occurring or occuring? englsh help
20:18<+glx>one r I think
20:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame.
20:23<Samu>my intelligant way to solve it!
20:26<Samu>didn't test it, must test
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20:46<Samu> 139 must stay 139 when an AI starts
20:51<Samu> it works!
20:52<Samu>random deviation still occurred to minimum distance between towns for road routes
20:52<Samu>default is 85
20:53<Samu>working as I intended!
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21:50<Samu>looks like I can drop Commit 1
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21:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame.
21:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame.
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 09 00:00:49 2019