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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-04-20

---Logopened Sat Apr 20 00:00:04 2019
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02:25<andythenorth>now not bed
03:06<andythenorth>peter1138: so should we just split out trams completely?
03:06<andythenorth>the partial split is confusing in nml too :P
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03:13<andythenorth>moin nielsm
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03:32<andythenorth>:o narrow gauge,file=5036,filename=Tankcar_Norgas_Baquedano_2008_0043.JPG
03:35<nielsm>hah wtf, I just discovered an oversight in my town cargo gen patch
03:35<nielsm>in object_cmd.cpp TileLoop_Object it does cargo generation for the company HQ
03:35<nielsm>which also uses that algorithm
03:35<nielsm>so that needs to be fixed I guess
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04:00<andythenorth>very train
04:11<andythenorth>turnip wagon!
04:54<andythenorth>salt bahn!
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05:43<@peter1138>What's confusing about trams in nml?
05:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] michicc merged pull request #32: Fix: Update OTTD_GUI sprite count.
05:47<@peter1138>Well, my late-night soldering worked. Shame it was just temporary though :p
05:47<@peter1138>Now I just need to pop out to Mapl... oh.
05:50*andythenorth must to go out
05:51<andythenorth>peter1138: I think mostly that a tram can have road_type property validly set, and road vehicle can have tram_type validly set
05:52<andythenorth>which isn't actually a problem, just weird
05:52<@peter1138>That... sounds like an NML thing?
05:52<andythenorth>it's an nml thing yes
05:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] michicc opened pull request #33: Fix c3404c0: Invalid syntax for string code table.
05:52<andythenorth>nml _could_ maybe split trams and RVs completely
05:52<andythenorth>dunno if it should
05:53<andythenorth>anyway, /me biab
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05:53<@peter1138>In NFO you just have look up table index, and the look up table depends on the misc flags
05:53<@peter1138>michi_cc, whoops.
05:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] michicc merged pull request #33: Fix c3404c0: Invalid syntax for string code table.
05:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/nml] PeterN approved pull request #33: Fix c3404c0: Invalid syntax for string code table.
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06:10*peter1138 finds more bugs.
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06:27<@peter1138>Hmm, I need a for-loop-type-thing that will do both "false" and "true". Maybe I should make my enum a uint8 instead of bool :p
06:32<@peter1138>That might work.
06:32<@peter1138>for (bool b : { false, true })
06:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479)
06:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479)
06:43<@LordAro>peter1138: bit weird regardless i feel
06:44<nielsm>that looks very python-ish to me
06:44<@peter1138>LordAro, I'm actually doing "for (RoadTramType rtt : { RTT_ROAD, RTT_TRAM })"
06:44<@peter1138>As RoadTramType is an enum backed by bool.
06:45<@peter1138>If it's a uint8 and I add RTT_END, then that needs to be handled in switch blocks etc :/
06:45<@peter1138>Also, it's hidden by "FOR_ALL_ROADTRAMTYPES(rtt)" cos we're evil ;)
06:51<@peter1138>That's a swizz! This Easter egg comes in two halves, not one piece ;(
06:56<Wolf01> <peter1138> for (bool b : { false, true }) <- what. the. f?
06:57<Wolf01>Is that a flip flop?
06:57<@peter1138>No, it just iterates both false and true.
06:57<nielsm>RoadTramType ALL_ROADTRAMTYPES[] = { RTT_ROAD, RTT_TRAM }; for (RoadTramType rtt : ALL_ROADTRAMTYPES) ...
06:57<nielsm>why waste a declaration like that when you can do it in less?
06:58<@peter1138>nielsm, likely.
06:58<@peter1138>Hmm, "Stroll On" sounds very wonky with fluidsynth :/
06:58<Wolf01>Ok, why using a for?
06:58<nielsm>deduplicate some code?
06:58<@peter1138>Wolf01, because I need to iterate both values.
06:58<@peter1138>Deduplicate code.
06:59<Wolf01>I would make a function :P
06:59<Wolf01>And call it twice
06:59<nielsm>sometimes factoring out to a function is not practical
06:59<@peter1138>That's not fun when there are side effects.
06:59<nielsm>the function would end up with ten arguments
06:59<nielsm>(don't know about this specific case)
07:00<@peter1138>Not that many, but it's replacing an existing for-loop as well.
07:00<@peter1138>I had unrolled it, now I'm un-unrolling it.
07:01<nielsm>and making a lambda function with captures can be rather awkward syntax
07:02<Wolf01>Not that in c# would be different, just a foreach on a list containing false and true :P
07:04<@peter1138>nielsm, oh god
07:04<Wolf01>I'm dying
07:05<nielsm>I should get up and do something vaguely useful, instead of sipping tea and reading dumb things on the internet
07:06<Wolf01>Me too, but I have 9 days to do that
07:08<nielsm><@peter1138> Hmm, "Stroll On" sounds very wonky with fluidsynth :/ <-- and yeah those free soundfonts usually supplied don't sound good with music written with roland soundcanvas in mind
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07:10<@peter1138>nielsm, well, seems there's some weird pitch-shifting happening.
07:13<nielsm>that's a lot of shopping centres
07:21<@peter1138>Heh, when you go "wtf is this bit shuffling" and then realise you are in afterload.cpp
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07:30<frosch123>hmm, the latest commit in grf2html is adding .hgignore after svn->hg migration
07:30<frosch123>i wonder whether i drop that commit when converting to git
07:31<@peter1138>Hmm, the music stopped at/after 04 "Road Hog"
07:32<@peter1138>Oh, no, whoops. I'd muted it.
07:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Custom allocators for Squirrel
07:51<nielsm>now what would be a sane default for script max memory?
07:51<nielsm>and should it depend on 32 or 64 bit?
07:52<nielsm>and hmm is that a game setting or a client setting?
07:53<nielsm>since the AI and GS don't actually run on network clients it seems wrong to make it a game setting
07:54<nielsm>and should it even be exposed in the UI?
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07:57<frosch123>the main difference is that game settings are stored in the savegame, while client settings are not
07:57<frosch123>make it the same as the opcode limit
07:58<frosch123>wrt. storing and exposure
08:02<frosch123>meh, my connection to devzone has lots of packet loss :/
08:03<andythenorth>FEAT_ROADTRAMVEHS ? o_O
08:03<andythenorth>instead of FEAT_ROADVEHS
08:03<andythenorth>my devzon hg is flaking out occasionally
08:03<andythenorth>as is my e key
08:04<frosch123>don't break things just to for breaking :)
08:05<frosch123>if road and tramtypes share labels now, they should probably also share the translation table and feature number
08:05<frosch123>so, everything is ROAD in nml
08:05<andythenorth>I am aware of the pitfalls of tidy-mind problems :)
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08:06<andythenorth>I just keep running into the side effects of 'road vehicles' being the set of 'road vehicles' and 'trams'
08:07<andythenorth>e.g. in Hog docs, I have a page split into road vehicles, and trams
08:07<andythenorth>and to split, I iterate road vehicles, splitting out road vehicles :)
08:08*andythenorth files it under 'much lolz all'
08:09<@peter1138>Nah, translation table and feature is not shared.
08:10<@peter1138>To merge them would break existing NewGRFs, and also makes splitting it apart later awkward if that becomes the way forward.
08:11<Wolf01>VS 142 is 2017 or newer?
08:11<@peter1138>I think 141 is 2017 and 142 is 2019
08:13<Wolf01>Ok, selected wrong project :P
08:16<Wolf01>Ok, master updated and compiled
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08:19<Wolf01>Is the nrt main repo still the andy's one?
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08:21<@peter1138>Nice, make regression fails D:
08:22<nielsm>ugh apple what is this
08:23<nielsm>also squirrel what is this
08:23<@peter1138>"type" yeah...
08:24<milek7>related to this?
08:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Custom allocators for Squirrel
08:26<Wolf01>Mmmh, 74 conflicts... the branch is clean, pull -> conflicts, is it stupid or what?
08:26<nielsm>maybe moving the <map> include fixes that
08:26<@peter1138>Oh, I see.
08:28<andythenorth>so pax feldbahn?
08:31<nielsm>hmm or well, maybe after 1980 as a museum railway kind of thing
08:34<nielsm>(I should try talking to that club some time and see if I can get to try driving the steam engine)
08:38<andythenorth>micro feldbahn :P
08:38<nielsm>that's just a large scale model railway :P
08:40<Wolf01>Git reset from VS is really useless, had to do it from cli
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08:46<@peter1138>VS is really useless :p
08:46<Wolf01>Do I still need to include libs with the .user file?
08:48<nielsm>if you use vcpkg then no
08:48<Wolf01>Mmmh, I think I did it on Openttd/master, but not on nrt
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09:00<nielsm>okay I can't make exceeding memory budget a hard error, have to allow overdraft and then check status when not executing the vm
09:01<Wolf01>Nope, doesn't work, missing libz, libpng, lzo, ft2build etc
09:02<Wolf01>Can't understand why OTTD master works fine, maybe that's why I gave up with nrt
09:07<Wolf01>x64 works... no win32 libs on vcpgk?
09:23<andythenorth>I need to refactor Hog code a bit for NRT
09:23<andythenorth>otoh, something inside me is pushing on 2 vertebrae, and causing referred pain
09:23<andythenorth>so I'm not very motivated to refactor python :P
09:29<nielsm>this script code is convoluted
09:33<Wolf01>Mr. thenorth, which are the latest versions for nrt newgrfs? Every topic is about a year old
09:35<nielsm>yay finally worked
09:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Custom allocators for Squirrel
09:43<andythenorth>Wolf01: you just have to dig around in forums :)
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09:44<nielsm>it's kind of troublesome to debug regression failures on windows
09:45<nielsm>it's hard to attach a debugger to the regression run and you don't even get the actual output text dumped anywhere
09:45<Wolf01>andythenorth: why not a curated list of newgrfs for nrt? :P
09:45<andythenorth>why not :P
09:51<nielsm>oh, the regressions passed now
09:51<nielsm>I think a default memory limit of 128 mb for scripts is going to make samu sad :P
09:52<nielsm>but I'm not sure what a sane default would be
09:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>surely 640k ought to be enough for anyone
09:57<@LordAro>nielsm: lower than the point at which the GC falls over :p
09:57<nielsm>640k is barely enough for a script to boot up :P
09:57<@LordAro>should probably scale by map size, tbh
09:57<nielsm>hm maybe
09:58<@LordAro>perhaps could aleo try GCing before hard killing the script?
09:58<nielsm>also I think 32 bit builds (sizeof(void*) less than 8) a hard limit of 128 MB would be a good idea since you're already oversubscribing address space with 8 AIs then
09:58<frosch123>how does it scale by map size? by edge length, by area, exponential?
10:00<nielsm>should probably scale by area
10:00<frosch123>scaling by map size is weird
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10:00<Artea>game should have a "crash report"
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>scale by allowed vehicle limits?
10:00<Artea>with the interniares of them
10:00<frosch123>why would you restrict ais to les memory just because you are playing on a smaller map
10:01<frosch123>wouldn't you always adjust the setting to your system?
10:01<nielsm>Artea you mean like the crash report being produced when the game crashes?
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>nobody(*) will ever adjust the setting
10:01<nielsm>there _is_ a crash report and it works for everyone else
10:01<Artea>so we can check the routes of crashed airplanes / trains
10:01<Artea>no no
10:01<Artea>I mean ingame crash report
10:01<nielsm>okay so more like disaster report
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>Artea: maybe you should announce a topic change :p
10:03<Artea>I'm not in good place right now
10:03<Artea>trying just to clear my mind
10:03<Artea>with OTTD
10:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc updated pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479)
10:05<Artea>Property Maintenance should be called Company Maintenance
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10:06<nielsm>that's much more misleading
10:06<Artea>it is ?
10:06<nielsm>why do you think "property" is the wrong word?
10:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc commented on pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479)
10:06<nielsm>it's costs for maintaining the fixed assets you own
10:07<Artea>well, I though was for HQ Property
10:08<nielsm>why would "company" make it any more clear that it covers maintenance for track, stations etc.?
10:08<Artea>don't know, more clarify what it is ?
10:09<Artea>well, is apart of company
10:09<nielsm>yes, it's the company's fixed properties
10:09<nielsm>property = "the land you own and the constructions on that land"
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10:10<Artea>so it counts everything ?
10:10<nielsm>"company maintenance" sounds like expenses for running your administration (i.e. wages for administrative staff not involved in the actual transportation business itself)
10:10<Artea>I really need to RTM OTTD
10:12*Artea is such a noob
10:13<nielsm>click the Infrastructure button in the finances window, or Details button in the company window
10:13<nielsm>to see the infrastructure breakdown, which is the property maintenance cost
10:14<Artea>I checked
10:14<Artea>counts everything
10:14<Artea>good thing I have Infrastuture_maintenance off
10:15<Artea>seems having player joined the my server
10:15<Artea>made me a little happier
10:19<nielsm>lol @ borkai spending so much time scanning the map and collecting data it goes over its memory budget before it even builds anything
10:26<andythenorth>Hog Hog Hog
10:26*andythenorth took painkillers, and is coding
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10:28<Artea>I'm put Windows 7 into USB Pen
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10:28<Artea>for my other laptop
10:28<Artea>need get an HDD
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10:32<andythenorth>dunno if I should subclass in python for trams
10:33<andythenorth>Horse it's all a bit of a mess, engine type vs track type vs power type
10:34<andythenorth>maybe I just replicate that mess in Hog :P
10:35<andythenorth>are trams a thing, conceptually, or not?
10:37*andythenorth makes it more specific
10:37<andythenorth>is ElectricRoadVehicle subclassed into ElectricRoadVehicle and ElectricTram?
10:38<andythenorth>or should I leave it as is, ElectricRoadVehicle with tram flag and tram_type set
10:38<andythenorth>"Class ElectricRoadVehicle(ElectricRoadVehicle):" looks frigging odd
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10:46<frosch123> <- someone knows who is involved in that?
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10:48<frosch123>hmm, rather lakie
10:50<frosch123>ah, the rudge
10:50<andythenorth>Class ElectricRoadVehicle(ElectricRoadVehicleBase) might look ok?
10:50<@peter1138>Artea, get an SSD tho ;)
10:51<@peter1138>Right, so...
10:51<Artea>but I'm old and rusty
10:51<Artea>it is installed in same place as HDD ?
10:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
10:52<@peter1138>Yeah, as long as your laptop is not so old that it uses PATA/IDE drives.
10:52<andythenorth>"Class ElectricTram(ElectricRoadVehicleBase):"
10:52<@peter1138>I did remove ELRD and RAIL from NRT.
10:53<andythenorth>oh you did? o_O
10:53<andythenorth>nothing broke in Hog yet :P
10:53<@peter1138>You can add them yourself, of course.
10:53<andythenorth>I just used them because they were there
10:53<@peter1138>But in the interests of not-adding-content, I didn't add content.
10:53<Artea>Asus X552C
10:53<andythenorth>what's your opinion this afternoon on hard splitting road / tram?
10:54<@peter1138>That's plenty new enough.
10:54<@peter1138>andythenorth, "no"
10:54<@peter1138>andythenorth, I'm happy with it as is.
10:54<andythenorth>not going to change your mind? :)
10:54<andythenorth>I am fine either way
10:54<@peter1138>road/tram *types* are already split with regards to feature.
10:54<andythenorth>just about to refactor a bunch of Hog so it makes sense
10:55<@peter1138>road/tram vehicles are not, but splitting them would involve having to fix up existing tram newgrfs.
10:55<andythenorth>if English had a plausible word for the superclass of 'road vehicles + trams'
10:55<andythenorth>that would solve 99% of my confusion :P
10:55<@peter1138>OpenTTD calls them "ground vehicles"
10:55<@peter1138>It actually does.
10:56<andythenorth>I considered RubberTyredVehicle, but doesn't quite work :P
10:56<andythenorth>as a subclass
10:56<@peter1138>I had a souvlaki pita for lunch. It's basically chicken + salad and a fluffy pita bread. But it was nice, so that was nice.
10:56<andythenorth>mmm chicken
10:56<andythenorth>mmmm salad
10:57<@peter1138>Latest NRT needs testing, it has the new-old FOR_ALL_ROADTRAMTYPES()
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10:57<@peter1138>Where "ALL" means "BOTH" I guess :p
10:58<@peter1138>I wonder.
10:59<andythenorth>then the label wouldn't need settinig
10:59<andythenorth>inferred from the class
10:59*andythenorth thinking out loud obvs
11:04<andythenorth>haha I already solved this in existing code
11:04<andythenorth>I hedged all bets, and created 'Haulers' :P
11:04*andythenorth onwards
11:04<andythenorth>most of my programming these days is reading existing code a lot first
11:04<andythenorth>then going for a walk
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you have an irrational obsession about labels. like other people have with server names...
11:05<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: do you mean labels for things, or labels as 4 chars?
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>labels as 4 chars
11:05<andythenorth>no I don't care about those at all
11:05<andythenorth>if I cared, I wouldn't ask for any help
11:06<andythenorth>currently all the new labels are HAKE, CAKE, BAKE tec
11:06<andythenorth>and they might just stay like that
11:06<@peter1138>Maybe I should play with RUKTS
11:06<andythenorth>if $someone would just tell me what labels to use, I would just paste them in
11:06<andythenorth>I do have an irrational obsession with naming of parts
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>whatever labels you set now, you will regret in half a year :p
11:07<andythenorth>that's why I want you to decide
11:07<andythenorth>then I can outsource the regret
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>i won't
11:21<andythenorth>python subclass mixins are bad, right?
11:21<andythenorth>we tried that before and deleted it
11:24<@peter1138> 175 files changed, 4772 insertions(+), 1415 deletions(-)
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11:32*andythenorth tries mixins, removes them again
11:33<andythenorth>complexity of multiple inheritance, vs. adding a flag to 20 subclasses
11:33<andythenorth>flag wins
11:45*peter1138 tries VEH_TRAM :p
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12:01*andythenorth quite likes hog
12:01<andythenorth>it's easy-ish to work on :P
12:05<andythenorth>I am subclassing tram / truck etc inside Hog compile
12:05<andythenorth>couldn't be having all the confusion about RoadVehicle
12:06<andythenorth>I don't have to see the nml, so I don't care what that does :)
12:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gymnasiast opened issue #7530: Crash in kdtree.hpp when removing track in development version
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12:13*peter1138 gives up on that idea.
12:13<@peter1138>No, no way to split this up.
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12:19<Lun>Hello, could you please tell me how to set up the automatical changing of old vehicles?
12:20<@peter1138>Enable autorenew:
12:21<@peter1138>(You might need to show advanced settings, or something)
12:22<Artea>got disconnected from my server
12:22<Artea>timeout :'(
12:23<andythenorth>peter1138: if they weren't specifically called RoadVehicle or VEH_ROAD or whatever, we'd all just move on
12:23<andythenorth>and stop picking at it :D
12:23<@peter1138>Like a scab?
12:24<Lun>Is there any setting in the main menu for this function?
12:25<Artea>go to Settings
12:25<@peter1138>It's in the settings window? o_O
12:25<Artea>select Expert Settings
12:25<Artea>and filter type renew
12:25<Artea>will show 3 options
12:25<Lun>I have to find it in Czech :)
12:25<Artea>is under Company
12:27<Lun>Yes, I am in company
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>does the settings filter work on the internal names as well?
12:29<Lun>Got it!!! Thank you very much Artea!
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12:34<pete1>Hi, did you dropped the generic linux builds?
12:35<pete1>Oh, finally or just for now?
12:35<nielsm>previous answer to same question
12:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7531: Fix e8d397e: Invisible station/waypoint signs could still be clicked on.
12:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7531: Fix e8d397e: Invisible station/waypoint signs could still be clicked on.
12:38<@peter1138>'Twas quick.
12:39<nielsm>"looks good" :)
12:40<@peter1138>I should stop reading the forums... that was reported only in JGR's thread o_O
12:42<@peter1138>Ginger Beer Stout is quite interesting.
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12:43<@peter1138>Minecraft 1.14 will be out in a few days.
12:44<andythenorth>for tea...cod with tomato and thyme?
12:45<@peter1138>Sounds nice.
12:45<andythenorth>oof Hog introduces pax trams on silly intervals :(
12:45<andythenorth>my automatic date stuff won't work with this :P
12:46<@peter1138>Have you tried just... setting some things manually? :p
12:46<andythenorth>that's what I'm replacing :)
12:46<@peter1138>Why though?
12:47<@peter1138>Things that should be automatic: Sprite offsets.
12:47<andythenorth>because it's net less stupid than what I'm currently doing
12:47<andythenorth>currently I set some stuff manually
12:47<@peter1138>Things that shouldn't: vehicle properties
12:47<andythenorth>then some stuff automatically
12:47<andythenorth>and lots of book-keeping to stop them getting out of sync :P
12:47<andythenorth>currently I am definitely Doing It Wrong
12:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7531: Fix e8d397e: Invisible station/waypoint signs could still be clicked on.
12:51<@peter1138>andythenorth, what do I need to add to NRT?
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12:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
12:52<@peter1138>^ Fairly useless comment.
12:52<andythenorth>it's done
12:52<andythenorth>dunno, I'm making Hog to test it
12:52<andythenorth>can it go in a nightly yet?
12:52<andythenorth>let players loose on it?
12:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
12:53<andythenorth>what's a default anyway? :P
12:53<@peter1138>andythenorth, well..
12:53<andythenorth>do I need more RAM?
12:53<@peter1138>I guess I should squash all the bugfixes again./
12:53<andythenorth>so I can run 16 AIs?
12:53<@peter1138>And then see if there's more I can split.
12:53*andythenorth should stop being a twat and go back to Hog
12:53<@peter1138>And then...
12:54<@peter1138>Someone needs to review it ;P
12:54<nielsm>I'm probably changing the default to 1 GB but hard limiting it to 128 MB on 32 bit builds
12:55<nielsm>because 16 scripts (15 AI + one GS) * 128 MB makes for 2 GB
12:55<nielsm>and on 32 bit windows you only have 2 GB of address space
12:55<nielsm>(well maybe 3 GB but don't count on that)
12:55<@peter1138>I'm not sure hard limits are a good idea.
12:56<@peter1138>Can a 32 bit build make use of PAE?
12:56<@peter1138>Can't remember if that's kernel-level only. Probably is.
12:56<nielsm>uh well I guess technically you could now we have a context switched allocator for squirrel
12:57<@peter1138>Right, but say you wanted to run 2 AIs that need 256MB.
12:57<@peter1138>You can't because there's an arbitrary 128MB limit.
12:58<nielsm>or maybe do some evillery checking the total memory use of all scripts and if it hits some other limit then start OoM killing the scripts
13:00<@peter1138>Ok, ok....
13:00<@peter1138>Squash NRT time?
13:04<andythenorth>there comes a time
13:07<@peter1138>Does it still build?
13:08<andythenorth>there's no way to update a checked out PR, right?
13:09<andythenorth>I have to branch -D and go again?
13:09<@peter1138>git reset but...
13:10<andythenorth>so does it build?
13:10<@peter1138>I... am checking.
13:12<nielsm>hmm nah using AWE to support more memory for AIs on 32 bit windows is probably not worth the effort
13:12<@peter1138>I hope so.
13:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
13:12<@peter1138>nielsm, nope :-)
13:12<andythenorth>yeah it builds
13:12<nielsm>it would fall square under "stupid programmer tricks"
13:12<@peter1138>No point when 64 bit exists.
13:13<@peter1138>andythenorth, you updated that quickly!
13:13<nielsm>unless for some reason you're running windows server 2003 (or xp sp1) on some ancient CPU but still have more than 4 GB RAM installed
13:13<nielsm>and nobody does that
13:14<@peter1138>Are people even using 32 bit builds?
13:14<nielsm>since as far as I can tell the pages involved in AWE must be locked in physical memory
13:14<@peter1138>I shouldn't ask that should I?
13:15<andythenorth>compiling OpenTTD is faster than compiling a grf :P
13:15<andythenorth>but now you've updated again L:P
13:15<andythenorth>delete them and find out
13:15<andythenorth>we've found some linux users who don't use the packaged openttd
13:15<@peter1138>Is it tea/dinner time yet?
13:16<nielsm>(during one period I did run XP SP1 on a system with 4 or 6 GB RAM, intentionally did not upgrade to SP2 since that would take away my ability to use more than 2.9 GB memory or there about)
13:16<nielsm>(until vista was released then I switched to 64 bit)
13:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
13:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
13:38*peter1138 git pr 7516 upstream
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13:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
13:42<nielsm>look ma' I used a selection/stack/planeswitcher widget!
13:43<nielsm>(why is it called three things)
13:45<@peter1138>Memory usage seems fairly moderate... for now.
13:47<nielsm>some AIs' usage depends heavily on map size (or maybe rather town+industry count) it seems
13:47<@peter1138>CivilAI at 240MB
13:48<Samu>doesn't look like memory limit is the problem
13:48<@peter1138>And then it went bankrupt. Hah.
13:49<Samu>have u found out the cause of the crash?
13:49<nielsm>it's probably related to the data structures the script uses, too heavily nested or something
13:50<nielsm>if it crashes in the GC with a broken stack
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13:51<nielsm>but memory limiting AIs and killing them if they use too much may be sufficient symptom treatment
13:51<@peter1138>I suspect it's k-d tree related, to be honest.
13:51<@peter1138>As that is one elusive crash.
13:51<Samu>nah, it's happened way before
13:53<Samu>doesn't pathfinders use nested
13:53<Samu>for each tile
13:54<Samu>don't know
13:58<Samu>what about my AI, how's it doing about memory?
14:00<Samu>have you tried the max value for min distance for road routes, with custom pathfinder profile?
14:00<Samu>longer routes, more nodes to check
14:01<Samu>longer routes first
14:02<@peter1138>DumbAI at 862 MB
14:03<Samu>that's not my AI, :(
14:06<Samu>omg, PathZilla beat SimpleAI in a race for £10M
14:06<Samu>that's unexpected
14:06<@peter1138>"Maximum memory allocation exceeded"
14:07<@peter1138>nielsm, is the AI now terminated?
14:07<@peter1138>I guess not, still shows 1GB usage.
14:10<Samu>CivilAI beats SnakeAI, it was close
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14:11<Samu>100% vs 96%
14:20<nielsm>peter1138: if you got the error popup with AI debug window etc then it is terminated
14:21<nielsm>the AI stays zombified (always has) with the last known memory usage shown in framerate window
14:21<nielsm>so you can kill the company or reload the ai
14:21<@peter1138>perhaps the framerate GUI should show zombified state?
14:21<nielsm>might be
14:25<nielsm>if I seem absent it's because I'm watching demoparty live
14:38<Samu>what am I watching?
14:39<nielsm>64k pc demo compo
14:39<nielsm>the total exe file size for each of these demos is at most 64 kb, and they may not use external data files
14:40<nielsm>demo = demonstration of your own skills
14:41<Samu>just an efficiency test
14:41<nielsm>eh no
14:42<Samu>make a midi
14:43<nielsm>hah no
14:43<@LordAro>Samu misses the point, surprising no one
14:44<nielsm>the 64 kb includes graphics, sound, and the code to bind it together
14:44<nielsm>the code alone to play back music can easily exceed 64 kb if it's not designed and special purposed for making size restricted demos/intros
14:45<Samu>reminds me of those old .com files that were shipped in hacked games
14:46<nielsm>funny you should say that because that's where they descend from
14:46<Samu>funky tune with weird visuals
14:46<nielsm>this category on display right now is called intro because it descends from crack intros
14:49<Samu>video doesn't play for me anymore
14:49<Samu>says offline
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14:53<Samu>screw them
14:53<Samu>it's offline for me
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15:04<+glx>and 64kb is really small
15:08<andythenorth>there was a power cut
15:09<andythenorth>big bang, and the power was gone
15:16<andythenorth>I am in the countryside
15:16<andythenorth>something tripped at the nearest HV substation
15:17<andythenorth>I think a fused destructively failed
15:17<andythenorth>but I can't find a YT video of that :P
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15:39<andythenorth>so I've split classes, e.g. DumpTruck and DumpTram
15:40<andythenorth>is feldbahn DumpTram, with the label set?
15:40<andythenorth>or is it DumpFeldbahn?
15:40*andythenorth will find out
15:41<andythenorth>peter1138: how's RUKTS? o_O
15:50<@peter1138>Dunno, playing Doom (2016)
15:51<Artea>I bought SSD
15:51<Artea>cheap! :D
15:51<Artea>27 euros
15:51<Artea>also, DVD
15:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
15:52<Artea>1,9 GB of Windows Update ;)
15:52<andythenorth>I have original Doom
15:52<Artea>play Brutal DooM :D
15:54<nielsm>hmm I wonder if I can make sqmem.cpp be just two line adds instead of a full replacement, but the existing code has tabs in bad places and those may get caught
15:54<nielsm>or if I should just remove the file and remove the define option to not use the new allocator
16:06*andythenorth played PRBoom (Doom) for a bit
16:11<Artea>andythenorth: watch that
16:11<Artea>is so gore and... brutal!
16:15<milek7>nielsm: does openttd on 32bit windows use /LARGEADDRESSAWARE?
16:15<nielsm>I don't know, but it doesn't make much difference
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16:16<+glx>you gain 1Go
16:16<+glx>and it also needs to be enabled at the OS level
16:16<nielsm>yeah that's not much compared to the amount of address space you get on 64 bit
16:17<nielsm>whether you have 2, 3, or 4 GB of address space doesn't make that much difference if you want to run multiple memory hungry AIs
16:27<Samu>I wanna run 15 BorkAIs
16:27<Samu>1 TB of RAM
16:28<Samu>BorkAI is the kind of AI that thinks too much, and executes too little
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16:47*andythenorth does stupid multiple inheritance mixins again :P
16:51*andythenorth rely doesn't trust multiple inheritance :P
17:03<andythenorth>did you win Doom?
17:04<@peter1138>I... finished a level.
17:06<@peter1138>I think I broke something.
17:06<@peter1138>Or maybe not. I'm not sure.
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17:09<andythenorth>a bone?
17:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
17:13<@peter1138>Ah, I filtered the scenario editor so that only town-built roads could be placed. Probably wrong.
17:14<@peter1138>Okay but...
17:15<@peter1138>Why can you place tram track but not rail track?
17:17<@LordAro>tram track can be owned by towns?
17:17<@LordAro>so who owns scenario editor built tram track?
17:17<@peter1138>Owner: N/A
17:18<@LordAro>i might suggest that's a bug
17:21<@peter1138>If a company goes bankrupt, its tram track (and roads) become owned by noone.
17:22*andythenorth considers JFDI as a roadtype label
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17:27<@peter1138>Hmm, I thought company-owned stuff was wiped when you loaded a save into the scenario editor. Apparently not.
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17:37<andythenorth>ouch bedtime
17:38<@peter1138>It's not 2.30am yet/
17:38*andythenorth is failing
17:38<Artea>watching SAO
17:38<Artea>while installing Windows updates
17:39<andythenorth>oh I broke coop jenkins with Hog 2
17:39<andythenorth>oh dear
17:39<andythenorth>bed :)
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18:17<@peter1138>So er
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18:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6507: Crash: corrupt savegame
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19:33<nielsm>now the 256 byte category on at revision
19:34<nielsm>"platform: dosbox"
19:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6605: Crash: loading savegame
20:01*Artea invites niel and peter to his OTTD server :P
20:02<nielsm>if it wasn't for demoparty I'd be in bed now
20:03<Artea>me too
20:03<Artea>after 3h of updates
20:03<Artea>finally I'm playing MU Online
20:14<@peter1138>Hmm, 1.37 deg C and 8.06 deg C.
20:15<@peter1138>Well, that doesn't seem right :S
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20:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
20:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
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20:55<nielsm>phew, over for tonight
20:55<nielsm>now bed
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21:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7516: Memory measurement and limits for Squirrel
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 21 00:00:06 2019