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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-04-22

---Logopened Mon Apr 22 00:00:07 2019
00:00<cHawk>Names can be trademarked though
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01:57<@peter1138>Any views on #7446?
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02:22<andythenorth>o/
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02:27<andythenorth>what goes on with trees eh?
02:28<andythenorth>I've got a an arctic map which started with almost total tree coverage
02:29<andythenorth>and after 50 years nearly all trees are gone
02:32<@LordAro>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp#L1280 this comment does not match the values used - https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/rail_type.h#L29-L41
02:34<@LordAro>and it is loading TTO save, which didn't have electric or maglev, right?
02:36*LordAro wonders when someone last loaded a TTO save
02:48*andythenorth considers a tech tree https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/4d/d7/bf4dd7de54b71d3610a2333c49b70e45.jpg
02:48<andythenorth>either in my own newgrf docs
02:48<andythenorth>or how about....in the game? o_O
02:51<nielsm>well, let's try loading a TTO save then!
02:51<nielsm>https://0x0.st/zqDP.png :(
02:51<@LordAro>F
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02:58<andythenorth>hmm, I have the tech tree in python
02:58<andythenorth>can I be arsed to figure out how to graphviz it?
02:59<Wolf01>o/
02:59<andythenorth>yo
03:32<Wolf01>What are you planning to rekt next?
03:32<andythenorth>rekking Hog
03:33<Wolf01>https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/115259-doublenook-moc/ <- I want to rekt this
03:33<Wolf01>I should have at least half of the parts :P
03:36<andythenorth>o_O
03:37<andythenorth>so do roads have speed limits?
03:37<Wolf01>"suggested speed"
03:47<andythenorth>oof my multi-type vehicles have stopped working
03:48<@LordAro>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/newgrf_station.h#L86-L88 this seems like a bug
03:49*LordAro reduces by one
04:00<Wolf01>You should check where it's used if it's a max length or count
04:01<@LordAro>used as "one past the maximum"
04:01<andythenorth>so how do I use a hidden roadtype for vehicles to drive on multiple other types?
04:02<andythenorth>it worked a couple of days ago, and now it's broken
04:05*andythenorth will wait for peter
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04:38<andythenorth>@seen pikka
04:38<andythenorth>@seen dorpsgek
04:38<andythenorth>lame
04:38<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 3 days, 21 hours, 15 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Pikka> if the separate sprites had cc masks, I wouldn't have made them separate sprites :)
04:38<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: I have not seen dorpsgek.
04:38<V453000>andythenorth: I'm tweaking NUTS numbers :D fucking up my project andy-style
04:38<andythenorth>yes
04:38<andythenorth>do
04:38<V453000>thanks, needed support
04:38<V453000>everything shall be your fault ultimately
04:39<andythenorth>nuts_final_final.grf
04:39<V453000>:D yeah no
04:39<V453000>I don't do the mistake of calling anything final
04:40*andythenorth rekking Hogs
04:45<Artea>good morning
04:47<Artea>andy
04:47<Artea>found out a new tv series for you
04:47<Artea>Power
04:47<Artea>in Odissea channel
04:48<Artea>is all about Trains :)
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05:30<Wolf01>Ok, it seem I need to put in another 100€ of parts to finish that lego puzzle :(
05:44*andythenorth assumes peter1138 is on a bike
05:58<V453000>I should do that sometimes too
06:04*andythenorth rekks Hogs
06:06<andythenorth>meh gonna end up with one transport type too many :D
06:07<V453000>I think I'll add MORE text to the purchase menu infos
06:07<@peter1138>Morning
06:08<@peter1138>I was on a bike, yes.
06:09<andythenorth>I might put in 20 miles in the hot tub
06:10<@peter1138>Only 12.6 mph average today.
06:11<@LordAro>peter1138: recovering from yesterday? :p
06:12<@peter1138>LordAro, no, mountain biking.
06:12<@peter1138>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp#L1280
06:13<@peter1138>^ Regarding that line, it's fine.
06:13<@peter1138>It is actually not necessary.
06:13<@peter1138>src/saveload/afterload.cpp:1310 will forced it to the engine type's railtype anyway.
06:14<@LordAro>peter1138: is it the comment that is wrong then? because 0 & 1 definitely refer to rail & elec
06:15<@peter1138>They don't really.
06:15<@LordAro>well the type certainly thinks they do
06:15<@peter1138>That's why it's 0 & 1, not RAILTYPE_RAIL, etc.
06:16<@peter1138>Remember saveload conversion has to use values as they were at the time.
06:16<andythenorth>so how I do use hidden types to do cross compatibility?
06:16<@peter1138>If it was RAILTYPE_RAIL and RAILTYPE_MONO, then later conversion would then convert that MONO to MAGLEV.
06:16<@LordAro>peter1138: i see, then it goes through afterload.cpp and fixes all the values up?
06:17<@peter1138>(Except it won't, because we just force the engine railtype)
06:17<@peter1138>Yeah
06:22<@peter1138>Oh no, Maxi Muscle millionaires shortbread bars are... somewhat nice.
06:24<andythenorth>carolies
06:24<@peter1138>About 200.
06:24*andythenorth has no idea about carolies
06:24<andythenorth>is that a lot?
06:24<@peter1138>Not massively.
06:24<@peter1138>About 10% RDA
06:25<andythenorth>so I have HAUL and ROAD types
06:25<andythenorth>and I want a truck that can run on both
06:25<andythenorth>so I defined CAKE, made it hidden, and set compatibility to ROAD and HAUL
06:25<andythenorth>then set the truck to CAKE
06:26<andythenorth>it worked on Friday, it doesn't today :P
06:26<andythenorth>am I Doing It Wrong?
06:26<@peter1138>What happens?
06:27<andythenorth>vehicles don't show at all in any depots
06:27<andythenorth>I am trying a few things, it's usually my fault
06:27<andythenorth>I think I've found the cause
06:27<@peter1138>Possibly you got compatibility the wrong way around.
06:28<@peter1138>Possibly there's a design flaw
06:28<@peter1138>Who knows
06:28<andythenorth>nope
06:28<andythenorth>had a game without FIRS
06:28<andythenorth>no cargos for this truck in base industries
06:28<andythenorth>so hidden
06:28<@peter1138>Oh.
06:29<andythenorth>usually it's my fault
06:30<@peter1138>nielsm, heh, that station coverage patch, yeah, it completely ignore catchment_tiles and does its own thing based on the original algorithms...
06:32<@peter1138>But as it is, seems nobody is interested enough in it.
06:33<@peter1138>I know andythenorth tested it.
06:33*Artea needs a disaster report
06:33<andythenorth>I did
06:33<andythenorth>you referring to the other one in the forums?
06:34<@peter1138>"that" yes.
06:34<andythenorth>yeah I tested yours
06:34<andythenorth>are we merging NRT today?
06:35<@peter1138>Depends if I fix it.
06:35*peter1138 rebases 7446
06:35<@peter1138>(Also replaced auto with const Station *, cos old-style)
06:36<V453000>is it possible to somehow combine strings from other strings in NML?
06:36<@peter1138>Oh, this bar is BBE Apr19. Better eat all of them.
06:36<V453000>I could process it in python but just asking
06:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
06:37<@peter1138>^ There, just needs reviewing ;)
06:38<andythenorth>ha ha
06:38<andythenorth>I got caught out by the stupid ffwd hotkey again
06:38<andythenorth>I am running a debug build, so it's shift not tab
06:38<andythenorth>I'm sure that makes total sense
06:38<andythenorth>I was about to report that FFWD is broken
06:40<andythenorth>or blame Apple
06:41<@peter1138>:)
06:41<andythenorth>what's the plural of 'feldbahn' then?
06:41<andythenorth>and what's a feldbahn train called?
06:41<andythenorth>a 'feldbahn' ?
06:41<@peter1138>V453000, probably not literal string combining. OpenTTD has string codes to include things but I'm not sure where that can be used.
06:42<@peter1138>But... I know hardly anything about nml.
06:42<@peter1138>Last commit I did broke it :p
06:43<andythenorth>how do I turn off the damn debug in ./configure? :P
06:43<@peter1138>Run it *without* --enable-debug
06:43<andythenorth>thanks
06:43<andythenorth>to be fair, the --help would have told me that if I'd looked
06:46<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/padding1.png
06:46<@peter1138>Well...
06:46<andythenorth>doubling up the chrome?
06:46<@peter1138>Looks a bit ridiculous at 4x :p
06:47<andythenorth>I got used to the minimal chrome at 2x :D
06:47<@peter1138>I think the thin lines are okay, but the padding itself looks wrong.
06:48<@peter1138>On the other hand, this patch shows where quite a lot of places use the wrong values, or just use numbers instead of the padding enum.
06:48<V453000>peter1138: thanks, I thought so just wasn't entirely sure ... I'll just need to write lng files in python next time :D
06:49<@peter1138>Yeah you can pre-process your lng files I guess.
06:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fj3OI
06:52<Artea>Googleweed ftw
06:52<@peter1138>Who what?
06:52<Artea>name of silly town
06:53<@peter1138>Nice.
06:53<@peter1138>My enchantment table fell apart :-(
06:53<@peter1138>Well, actually the book fell off.
06:53<Artea>:(
06:53<nielsm>you practice witchcraft?
06:54<Artea>https://servers.openttd.org/en/server/127004
06:54<Artea>still running :D
07:00<Artea>I need a better GS :(
07:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
07:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fj3OW
07:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fj3Ol
07:03<@peter1138>Such spam :D
07:03<@peter1138>nielsm, I practice assembling pre-cut cardboard Minecraft models, heh...
07:06*andythenorth pisses around with feldbahn speeds and stuff
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07:16<@peter1138>Hmm, found an issue now :p
07:22<Artea>it is a bug ?
07:23<Artea>if is, kill him
07:23<Artea>I mean, kill it
07:24<Artea>ok, don't kill it... just don't feed after midnight
07:24<@peter1138>That's a Gremlin.
07:26<Artea>:P
07:26<Artea>Gremlinville
07:27<Artea>finally
07:27<Artea>1B euros per year
07:27<Artea>from aircrafts ;)
07:27<Artea>after a few got crashed
07:33<Artea>peter: it is possible to add crash (disaster) report ?
07:33<@peter1138>You get a news message.
07:34<Artea>but that don't tell the path they were taking
07:34<Artea>and long gone
07:34<@peter1138>Well that's your problem for now paying attention.
07:35<Artea>it sux
07:35<Artea>lost like 4 planes while sleeping
07:37<andythenorth>so...daylength?
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07:49<andythenorth>what interval should Feldbahn generations have?
07:50<andythenorth>probably 30, like every other type I ask about :P
07:54<andythenorth>very narrow progression though
07:54<andythenorth>25mph -> 45mph or so
08:00<Artea>:(
08:00<Artea>player joined but didn't done anything
08:01<Artea>now is losing money
08:01<Artea>already -15M
08:01<@peter1138>Sounds like how I play.
08:03<Artea>I find hard to start now
08:04<Artea>year 2370
08:04<Artea>almost 300 years pass
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08:15<@peter1138>Only 300? That was a late start then.
08:17<Artea>3 days on
08:18<Artea>can't pinpoint the time I started
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08:19<andythenorth>quak also
08:21<frosch_>ah, that's where my scrollevent went to
08:21<frosch_>moi
08:22<Wolf01>Quak
08:24<Artea>Quake ?
08:24<Artea>I miss playing it
08:25<andythenorth>speed of Feldbahn in 1860, 20mph? 25mph?
08:25<andythenorth>speed of Feldbahn in 2000, 40mph? 45mph? 50mph?
08:26<@peter1138>Does it exist in 2000?
08:29<andythenorth>well
08:29<andythenorth>probably
08:29<andythenorth>but other types make more sense by then
08:29<andythenorth>mining trucks and so on
08:31<andythenorth>HEQS feldbhan starts at 15mph in 1870 and goes all the way up to 31mph by 1952 :P
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08:44<nielsm>yeah feldbahn is pretty much obsolete by 1980 I think
08:44<nielsm>trucks and conveyer belts do the same task better
08:51<andythenorth>where do I put a grf so OpenTTD can find it/
08:51<andythenorth>usually I just use make install
08:51<andythenorth>or DLC
08:51<andythenorth>but I'm trying to give one of my kids a dev version of FIRS
08:52<andythenorth>for OpenTTD 1.9.1
08:55<@LordAro>andythenorth: readme 4.2 :p
08:55<@LordAro>i think, or is that just openttd.cfg locations?
08:57<andythenorth>dunno, it's now installing XCode to read the .md file
08:57<andythenorth>stupid mac
08:59<+glx>blame the user, not the computer ;)
08:59<@peter1138>:D
08:59<andythenorth>I'll blame Apple
09:00<andythenorth>why the fuck does it want to download and install Apple's stupid heavyweight crap IDE
09:00<andythenorth>just for a .md file
09:00<andythenorth>this is clown shoes
09:00<Artea>content_download ?
09:01<+glx>no content_download is for download feature
09:01<+glx>but there are folders near content_download for manual stuff
09:02<andythenorth>I just tried moving the file and restarting OpenTTD
09:02<andythenorth>over and over again
09:02<andythenorth>until OpenTTD found it
09:02<andythenorth>the detection of grfs on macOS filesystems is shit
09:02<andythenorth>I regularly get broken savegame warnings due to missing grfs
09:03<andythenorth>which disappear on reload
09:03<andythenorth>is it lunch time yet?
09:03<+glx>not the only weird thing in macOS side of openttd
09:03<@peter1138>Some what.
09:04*andythenorth explores the freezer
09:04<andythenorth>I already had a sald
09:04<+glx>when removing QSortT() the worse part was macOS files
09:04<+glx>the video driver does everything differently than other video draivers
09:05<andythenorth>hmm freezer scenario is shit
09:05<andythenorth>and it's bank holiday
09:05<andythenorth>starvation!
09:05<@peter1138>I ate loads :/
09:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
09:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fj33F
09:13<andythenorth>should I? o_O https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VU_Lpch1Vk
09:33<@peter1138>Yes
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09:44<Artea>f***
09:44<Artea>can't find the tv series I watched yesterday
09:45<Artea>about trains
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>and you want us to list all tv series about trains now?
09:45<Samu>T-Series vs PewDiePie
09:45<Artea>no
09:46<Artea>its called Power
09:46<Artea>hard to find with that name
09:47<Samu>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVxU2HzPGug
09:47<Samu>heh, already dethroned
09:54<Wolf01><andythenorth> should I? o_O https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VU_Lpch1Vk <- definitely
10:00<andythenorth>ok
10:27<Samu>DumbAI vs RoadAI on Toyland... 2 AIs that don't build anything
10:28<Samu>one is bugged, the other crashes
10:28<Samu>how to decide who wins?
10:29<Artea>it's a tie
10:31<Samu>round robin can accept ties, I suppose
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10:54<andythenorth>maybe there should be low and high speed HEQS :P
10:55<V453000>just out of curiosity, does anybody know rough download counts for openttd, and copies sold for original TTD/TTO?
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>we certainly know the download numbers for each openttd release, but i doubt there are accessible numbers about original TTD/TTO
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, the download numbers from our server. there may be other sources
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11:14<andythenorth>220t, 50-60mph http://www.kresscarrier.com/CoalHaulers.html#.XL3aS5NKiAx
11:14<andythenorth>up to 400t, 25-30mph http://www.kresscarrier.com/CarriersPallet.html
11:14<andythenorth>2 types of HEQS then? :P
11:28<Artea>huhu
11:29<Artea>401 years has passed
11:46<Samu>wow RoadAI built something!
11:46<Samu>it wins vs a crash ai
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12:05<Samu>gelignAIte wins!
12:06<Samu>wormai has unexpected performance
12:07<Samu>beats trAIns
12:07<Wormnest>Samu: Unexpected in what way
12:08<Samu>trAIns is usually strong
12:08<Samu>wormai is sometimes too great, and some other times too bad
12:08<Samu>it's not easy to predict
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12:10<Samu>and it beat it on its own game
12:10<Samu>with trains
12:10<Samu>only 1 plane
12:12<Samu>Wormnest, https://imgur.com/FamWvYL
12:24<Wormnest>Early planes are not very profitable that´s probably why it chose to use mostly trains
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12:32<frosch_>V453000: wiki says that rct1 was sold 4 million types from 1999 to 2002
12:32<frosch_>rct1 was more successful than ttd
12:33<frosch_>and the gaming market was growing
12:33<frosch_>so, i would guess less than 2 million original ttd ales
12:33<frosch_>most importantly rct1 was also successful in us, while ttd was mostly europe
12:35<V453000>:)
12:35<frosch_>V453000: basically, put these in relation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RollerCoaster_Tycoon_(video_game)#Sales http://www.transporttycoon.com/anniversary (faq 21 and 22)
12:36<frosch_>that "i cant remember the figures" is marketing speech ofc :p
12:41<Samu>wtf, CivilAI and BorkAI perform better in easy preset
12:41<Samu>oh well...
12:42<andythenorth>does FIRS have sugarcane?
12:43<andythenorth>apparently not
12:43<frosch_>RSGR was deprecated in favour of SGBT and SGCN
12:47<andythenorth>thanks
12:47<andythenorth>valuable history :D
12:47*andythenorth should add much more Feldbahn
12:52<@peter1138>Hi
12:52<andythenorth>it's peter1138 erer
12:52<@peter1138>I just... had icecream on a waffle.
12:52<@peter1138>Super carolies
12:52<andythenorth>bonus
12:52<@peter1138>And then I tried to race the oldest kid I was with but somehow fell over "lol"
12:53<@peter1138>So now I'm having a beer.
12:53<@peter1138>As the kids are on their way home.
12:53<@peter1138>Right is it merged yet?
13:03<@LordAro>peter1138: oh no
13:04<andythenorth>merge all
13:04<andythenorth>did I make Hog auto-generate all the sprites yet?
13:05<@peter1138>Did you?
13:07<andythenorth>no
13:07<andythenorth>think of the time saved though!
13:11<@peter1138>And to top if off, because I had waffle & icecream, no dinner for me.
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>i had leftovers from yesterday...
13:14<@peter1138>No leftovers, I ate a whole massive steak :S
13:14<@peter1138>Ah well, at least I rode the bike today.
13:23<andythenorth>I put in a bit of hot tub time
13:23<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> And then I tried to race the oldest kid I was with but somehow fell over "lol" <-- there's a category of "young father injuries", where people engage in activities with kids and are not as resilient as them :p
13:23<andythenorth>only 38 deg though
13:23<andythenorth>https://blogs.webmd.com/webmd-doctors/20180330/is-a-hot-bath-really-as-good-as-exercise
13:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I have most of those injuries
13:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #84: Change: semantic HTML-elements for the pages main sections and corresponding CSS-rules https://git.io/fj3ch
13:48<@LordAro>i guess i should probably look at some website stuff, in absense of TB
13:48<@LordAro>unless andy wants to :p
13:48<@LordAro>absence*
13:48<andythenorth>I don't want to
13:50<Samu>start_date is really bugged
13:51<Samu>annoying, bugged, unpredictable
13:51*peter1138 orders a new chain.
13:51<Samu>so i setup 2 AIs with start date of 1 day
13:51<Samu>all the other AI slots are left to their defaults, which is 720 days
13:51<Samu>these 2 AIs start, but one bankrupts early
13:52<Samu>guess why it doesn't start right away after bankrupt
13:53<Samu>just merge it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7515
13:53<Samu>:)
13:54<Samu>solves the issue
13:55<Samu>or maybe it doesn't, I dunno anymore
13:55<Samu>nop, doesn't solve this one
14:07<@peter1138>Why should it start straight away?
14:07<@peter1138>The next start is 720 days later.
14:08*V453000 is going completely apeshit with nuts :D what was meant to be a small refactor might end up being a big rewrite
14:08<@peter1138>:D
14:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Roki100 opened issue #7535: Cant read error https://git.io/fj3CQ
14:14<@LordAro>well that's not the most useful bug report in the world
14:14<nielsm>I think he added a screenshot
14:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7535: Cant read error https://git.io/fj3CQ
14:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7535: Cant read error https://git.io/fj3C7
14:15<@LordAro>ah, the ascii output!
14:16<@LordAro>i think sdl does it under certain circumstances as well
14:16<@LordAro>tell them to make their terminal bigger :p
14:17<V453000>that image is cool as fuck
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>text handling could be improved in ascii mode :p
14:23<nielsm>also even if that was an actual bug, the first
14:23<nielsm>the first suggestion would be try 1.9.1 instead
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14:56<@peter1138>Hmm.
15:01<andythenorth>yes
15:05<@LordAro>definitely
15:06<andythenorth>LordAro: I might just stay out of the website PRs
15:06<@LordAro>andythenorth: boring :p
15:06<andythenorth>better that it were just done
15:06<andythenorth>14 differing opinions is one of the downsides of open source
15:08<@LordAro>andythenorth: i disagree
15:08<@LordAro>:p
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15:24<@peter1138>Yers
15:28<@peter1138>I'm lost in a world of ...
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15:30<andythenorth>graphics generation
15:30*andythenorth is lost in that
15:35<@peter1138>Nice
15:38<nielsm>procedurally generated vehicle sets
15:41<@LordAro>that'd be a fun thing
15:41<@LordAro>the trick would be not making it consistent for rotations
15:43<nielsm>but really, something like in A-train where you only get the vehicles you R&D yourself
15:44<nielsm>and/or balancing speed, power, cost, reliability (and maybe make reliability mean something other than "randomly stops dead")
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15:44<@LordAro>i recall an improved breakdowns patch somewhere
15:50<nielsm>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=82468&hilit=breakdown should maybe look into integrating this at least?
15:51<nielsm>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=39518&hilit=breakdown improved breakdowns, it's over 10 years old
15:51<andythenorth>so what's faster?
15:52<andythenorth>repeatedly opening images from disk, or repeatedly memory copying them?
15:52<@LordAro>the ancient one is what i was remembering
15:52<@LordAro>probably won't work so well
15:54<nielsm>andythenorth: likely not much difference assuming disk caching, but for compressed images that might actually be more significant decompressing it repeatedly
15:54<andythenorth>memory is about 2s faster, 13s vs 15s
15:55<andythenorth>single threaded
15:55<andythenorth>it's a spurious benchmark, usually I run it with 16 worker threads, and it's about 3s in both cases
15:56<andythenorth>I wondered if the 16 thread version would block on io, but my disk is insanely fast and the images are tiny
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16:00<@peter1138>Hmm, am I imagining the depot train view having train length guide markers?
16:01<nielsm>it has that since two years ago I think?
16:01<@peter1138>Why can't I see it?
16:01<@peter1138>Or... where should I see it? :s
16:02<nielsm>https://0x0.st/zq7a.png 1.9.1
16:02<andythenorth>they are just dotted verticals
16:03<nielsm>can be rather faint
16:03<andythenorth>one tip: don't look at them whilst horizontally scrolling in depot :P
16:03<andythenorth>oh that's fixed
16:03<andythenorth>when did that happen :P
16:04<andythenorth>they used to not move with scroll :)
16:05<@peter1138>src/depot_gui.cpp:217
16:05<@peter1138>So... it seems to disable the lines in a case that I don't understand.
16:05<@peter1138>traininfo_vehicle_width was never meant to be per-GRF o_O
16:05<andythenorth>o-O
16:08<frosch_>you can only choose between two options :)
16:09<frosch_>both are bad
16:09<frosch_>either you draw 28px trains in a 32px grid, which results in large gaps
16:09<frosch_>or you have 28px and 32px trains occupy different space in the depot
16:09<frosch_>currently you have options 2
16:09<@peter1138>2 is wrong.
16:10<frosch_>i think 2 is better than 1
16:10<@peter1138>As it makes two trains of the same length appear to be different length.
16:10<frosch_>yes, but each train looks correct on their own
16:11<frosch_>anyway, easiest solution: don't use pikka grfs, don't use 28px vehicles
16:11<V453000>REKT
16:11<frosch_>28px vehicles have all kind of problems with shortened vehicles and stuff
16:11<@LordAro>lol
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>and neither 28 nor 32 is perspectively correct
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>it should be closer to 24, i think
16:15<@peter1138>This is horrible.
16:15<@peter1138>As in... who came up with this idea?
16:15<@peter1138>1.5 != 1.5
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16:16<andythenorth>length is 'interesting'
16:16<@peter1138>Oh I see, it's frosch_'s thing.
16:16<@peter1138>Well, it's bad. Sorry. :p
16:17<andythenorth>don't rage quit frosch_ ! pls :D
16:17<@peter1138>Meh, no. He did the vertical lines. But only if all NewGRFs match. Which is... hardly ever.
16:17<frosch_>back in 2012 the goal was: don't make grfs break other grfs
16:17<frosch_>so everything that had global effect was turned into grf-local effect
16:17<frosch_>as said, you have 2 options
16:17<@peter1138>I don't think "a little extra space" is "broken"
16:17<frosch_>both are bad
16:18<frosch_>back then we had bug reports about issue 1
16:18<@peter1138>I think "1.5" != "1.5" IS definitely broken.
16:18<frosch_>it's the same with the y offset
16:18<frosch_>either grf people complain that their vehicles are not aligned as they are
16:18<frosch_>or different vehicles are aligned differently
16:19<frosch_>but you have that anyway
16:19<@peter1138>Not really, unless you start stacking vehicles vertically...
16:19<frosch_>vehicle aligment is arbitrary
16:19<@peter1138>(I don't have a patch for that)
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16:19<frosch_>anyway, it's fine as long as you don't mix grfs
16:20<frosch_>that's actually true for both options :p
16:21<@peter1138>So in this old game I have ukrs2 and ukrs2 addons.
16:22<@peter1138>One of them doesn't set the flag because it's an addon... and requires the first NewGRF.
16:23<frosch_>oh, i was wrong, it's like that since 2010, not 2012
16:23<@peter1138>What happens when you mix 28 and 32 in the same row?
16:23<frosch_>so more than half the age of ottd :p
16:23<frosch_>peter1138: every vehicle uses it's own length
16:24<frosch_>so every wagon has the correct spacing
16:24<frosch_>as intended when drawing
16:24<andythenorth>grf v99
16:24<andythenorth>break old things
16:25<frosch_>andythenorth: tb suggested to transpile a new language into grf. but you can also do the reverse:: transpile grf into something new
16:26<frosch_>but well, any language will not solve the 28px/32px issue :p
16:26<andythenorth>nope
16:26<andythenorth>well
16:26<andythenorth>transpile 8/8 to 7/8 :P
16:26<andythenorth>shorter lengths wont' work
16:26<andythenorth>they're all probably wrong offsets anyway :D
16:26<frosch_>well, when you get 8k displays, maybe you can stretch the 28px sprites to 32px, and people won't notice
16:26<nielsm>yeah rework the entire modding system in something different from grf + squirrel, and reimplement newgrf in the new system?
16:27<nielsm>that's a multi year project for sure
16:27<@LordAro>if (width == 7/8) exit("bad pikka, stop it")
16:27<andythenorth>the TB plan was a new source input format, compiling to existing formats
16:27<andythenorth>but then TB had a sad
16:27<frosch_>nielsm: that's not even the point :p the point is that the format does not affect the fundamentally broken mechanics in ottd
16:27<@LordAro>:(
16:27<nielsm>frosch_, of course
16:27<frosch_>nielsm: even factorio people did not manage to fix their isometric scale
16:28<frosch_>and now work around their perspective issue in increasingly insane ways
16:28<andythenorth>on the scale of things that bother me
16:28<V453000>yay new nuts :)
16:28<andythenorth>the isometric scale doesn't even register
16:28<@peter1138>0.8.1 or 0.9.0?
16:28<nielsm>peanuts? walnuts?
16:29<nielsm>or the kind you use with machine screws?
16:29<@peter1138>Hmm.
16:29<V453000>0.8.1
16:29<V453000>I do the retarded numbering where it's decimal versions ... 0.8.1 is 81th version
16:29<@peter1138>Ok, I was wrong, UKRS2 and UKRS2+ addons both set 32.
16:30<frosch_>what version number will be the 1000th release?
16:30<V453000>I'm hopefully dead by then frosch_
16:30<@peter1138>HEQS apparently has a rail vehicle in it.
16:30<@peter1138>1 single vehicle, that I never used.
16:30<@peter1138>HEQS doesn't set 32.
16:30<frosch_>V453000: sure, but that will be your task in hell
16:31<andythenorth>HEQS is DEAD
16:31<andythenorth>I should rename it :P
16:31<@peter1138>This is an old game, HEQS was definitely alive.
16:31<andythenorth>HEQS is now a label in Hog
16:31<andythenorth>V453000: I've named a roadtype LOLZ
16:31<andythenorth>I might do CATZ
16:31<andythenorth>and NYAN
16:31<V453000>._.
16:31<@peter1138>Making same tile-length be different is so weird and wrong. I don't understand why it was even considered :?
16:31<@peter1138>:/
16:32<andythenorth>unconsider it? :)
16:32<frosch_>because people complained that their vehicles looked wrong in depot and vehicle details
16:32<frosch_>simple rule: one grf should not break another grf
16:34<V453000>gnight :)
16:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii opened issue #7536: [FreeBSD] Syntax error: "(" unexpected https://git.io/fj38X
16:39<@peter1138>So that sounds like some script to run the game. I don't think that's us.
16:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7536: [FreeBSD] Syntax error: "(" unexpected https://git.io/fj389
16:41<frosch_>https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/games/openttd/?pathrev=498368 <- can't find it
16:41<frosch_>they include a save-passwords patch :p
16:42<nielsm>https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/games/openttd/files/openttd.in?revision=340872&view=markup&pathrev=498368
16:42<@peter1138>svn... oh dear.
16:43<frosch_>it's not cvs like openbsd
16:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii opened issue #7537: [FreeBSD] Bugs while compiling OpenTTD 1.9.1 https://git.io/fj38A
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>wtf is that?
16:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7537: [FreeBSD] Bugs while compiling OpenTTD 1.9.1 https://git.io/fj38h
16:46<frosch_>some macro conflict with the system headers probably
16:47<nielsm>could we instead patch squirrel to not have a macro named "type"?
16:47<frosch_>we kind of have a custom sq fork already
16:51<@peter1138>I had to rename one macro parameter from `type` yesterday :p
16:52<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder what the intention of ScriptStation::HasRoadType is.
16:53<@peter1138>Exact match, compatible match, or just "does it have road" / "does it have tram" ?
16:54<+glx>the enum says has seen a vehicle
16:54<@peter1138>Enum?
16:55<+glx>enum StationHadVehicleOfType in station_type.h
16:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii commented on issue #7536: [FreeBSD] Syntax error: "(" unexpected https://git.io/fj34t
16:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii closed issue #7536: [FreeBSD] Syntax error: "(" unexpected https://git.io/fj38X
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16:55<+glx>hmm wrong reading from me
16:55<+glx>forget it :)
16:55<@peter1138>Ah :-)
16:56<@peter1138>Hmm, is there a version of PuTTY that'll understand URLs? :S
16:57<@peter1138>Yes. It's separate. How stupid.
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>... maybe i shouldn't try to understand people today...
16:58<@peter1138>Hmm?
16:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii commented on issue #7537: [FreeBSD] Bugs while compiling OpenTTD 1.9.1 https://git.io/fj34m
16:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii closed issue #7537: [FreeBSD] Bugs while compiling OpenTTD 1.9.1 https://git.io/fj38A
16:59<@peter1138>Good luck with that one.
16:59<nielsm>should we maybe extract that "type" commit from the PR and apply to 1.9 branch as well?
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17:14<@peter1138>Nice, simulated 3840x2160 on my VNC display :p
17:14<@peter1138>Somewhat slow.
17:15<nielsm>I think we should maybe default zoom in the title game if resolution is greater than 1920x1080
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17:16<nielsm>or something slightly above that maybe
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17:49<@LordAro>nielsm: curious that it's not been an issue before, i'm sure freebsd has had an OTTD port in the past
17:51<nielsm>I think it's the change to C++11
17:52<nielsm>that causes STL headers to do more/different things
17:53<@LordAro>ah yes, probably
17:59*peter1138 finds yet more bugs.
18:00<@peter1138>How can I make implicit RoadType to bool conversion an error? o_O
18:00<@LordAro>explicit constructor?
18:01<nielsm>it's an enum I think?
18:01<nielsm>what if you make it an enum class?
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18:01<@peter1138>Then all sorts of things fail :-)
18:01<@LordAro>i imagine there's quite a lot of RoadType usage :p
18:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type https://git.io/fj3Bl
18:06<@peter1138>Nice.
18:06<@LordAro>wot i did with my holidays
18:06<@peter1138>: byte or : uint8, though? heh
18:06<+glx>lol I'm doing the same :)
18:07<@peter1138>Oddly enough we have "RoadTypeByte" but it's never saved or loaded.
18:07<@LordAro>peter1138: i just echoed what was already there, if you want to try a global s/byte/uint8/, be my guess
18:08<+glx>STAT_CLASS_MAX is used to declare an array
18:08*peter1138 guesses...
18:08<@LordAro>guest*
18:08<@peter1138>LordAro, so this is related to your railtype question this morning :D
18:08<@LordAro>peter1138: it is :)
18:08<@LordAro>which i forgot to reunfix
18:08<@peter1138>Heh
18:09<@peter1138>I'm pretty sure line 1280 is not needed.
18:09<@peter1138>Needs an old save to test though :)
18:09<@LordAro>possibly, but i'd rather leave it alone :)
18:09<@peter1138>True. If you don't need to touch it for this change indeed.
18:09<@LordAro>and nielsm discovered that TTO saves are completely broken anyway
18:10<@LordAro>not sure about STAT_CLASS_MAX though
18:10<@LordAro>given it clearly can't fit in a byte
18:10<nielsm>I didn't try loading a TTO save under the debugger
18:10<@peter1138>Well, only since std::vector I think.
18:10<nielsm>so not sure exactly where it breaks
18:10<@peter1138>TTD scenarios load at least.
18:11<nielsm>I also loaded a TTD save recently
18:11<nielsm>(I think while working on town cargo gen)
18:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type https://git.io/fj3Bl
18:12<+glx>ah found the array, it's in NewGRFClass
18:15<@LordAro>it annoys me that EnumPropsT is only used in one place (Extract), but that's used in lots of places
18:15<@LordAro>so can't get rid of it
18:15<@peter1138>Can EnumPropsT use std::underlying_type instead of the second parameter?
18:15<@LordAro>i expect so
18:16<@LordAro>but it'd be a minor change
18:16<+glx>LordAro: you requeue or I do ?
18:16<@LordAro>glx: hmm?
18:16<+glx>usual CI fail
18:17<@LordAro>oh, go ahead
18:17<+glx>the weird one
18:19<+glx>I think win32 and win64 will fail, but let's wait the CI
18:20<frosch_>LordAro: doesn't c++20 add a "byte"?
18:20<@LordAro>frosch_: i believe it does
18:21<@LordAro>https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/byte nope, C++17
18:21<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Oddly enough we have "RoadTypeByte" but it's never saved or loaded. <-- probably someone just cargo culted it
18:21<@LordAro>that'll be a bit fun
18:22<@peter1138>Well.
18:23<@peter1138>railtype doesn't need to be saved either, but is.
18:23<@peter1138>It's not like we support changing NewGRFs :-)
18:24<+glx>ok other failed where I expected msvc to fail
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>what i meant was: someone saw it was defined for railtypes, and just defined it for roadtypes as well, without knowing what it's for
18:25<+glx>I used type == 0x25 ? RAILTYPE_MONO : RAILTYPE_RAIL; locally to compile
18:26<@LordAro>glx: peter1138 explained earlier that that's not technically correct
18:26<@LordAro>but doesn't really matter
18:26<@LordAro>i'll wrap the whole thing in a static cast
18:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type https://git.io/fj3Bl
18:30<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, I know what you meant :-)
18:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type https://git.io/fj3Bl
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18:37<@peter1138>Oh god. Don't test disabling construction tools when the option is... not turned on o_O.
18:39<@LordAro>wait, what?
18:40<@peter1138>Settings -> Interface -> Construction -> Disable infrastructure building when no suitable vehicles are available: On
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18:41<@peter1138>So that setting being Off means... some buttons are still enabled... and no amount of code tweaking even should make them disabled.
18:41<@peter1138>Also leads to "this code was working earlier, why not now?"
18:42<Samu>for Round 6, I was thinking of increasing difficulty
18:42<Samu>higher costs
18:42<Samu>and such
18:42<Samu>but no inflation, i dont like inflation much
18:43<Samu>maybe infrastructure maintenance costs to make all air ais insta lose
18:43<frosch_>that setting should proably be deleted
18:44<frosch_>it's pretty pointless for road and railtypes
18:44<Samu>which one? inflation?
18:46<@LordAro>Samu: read further up
18:53<@peter1138>Perhaps, but...
18:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type https://git.io/fj3RL
18:57<+glx>hmm but looking at the spec the change may be correct
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19:16<@peter1138>Hmm, AI built an airport, but thinks it failed, so stopped.
19:20<@peter1138>Hmm, how does AITestMode work?
19:20<@LordAro>very carefully
19:21<@peter1138>Seems it thinks it was testing but actually built.
19:21<@peter1138>Then it tries to build and that fails.
19:21<+glx>AITestMode is scope based
19:22<@peter1138>local test = AITestMode();
19:22<@peter1138>mm
19:22<@peter1138>Maybe it's not that.
19:24<+glx>in test mode nothing is built for real, except maybe temporary vehicle
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19:27<@peter1138>Ok... so the airport that is built is actually some other AIs.
19:27<+glx>huhu
19:27<+glx>same script in different slot ?
19:32<Wormnest>With the most recent nightly just downloaded and then downloading the save NoNoCAB 2024 on the load screen it shows indeed NoNoCAB as AI.
19:32<Wormnest>However after loading it shows up as CivilAI.
19:33<Wormnest>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=75030&start=20
19:33<Samu>hm?
19:33<Wormnest>Link to savegame. The 1975 save also shows wrong AI in game.
19:34<Samu>let me check
19:35<Samu>works for me, do you have the AI installed?
19:35<Wormnest>When I try to reload AI I get
19:35<Wormnest>Assertion failed at line 310 of d:\a\1\s\src\economy.cpp: old_owner != _local_company
19:36<Wormnest>I do but I also have a newer development version around that takes precedence
19:36<Samu>oh, that was weird
19:36<Samu>changes to some other ai
19:37<Wormnest>For some reason another ai gets loaded than what is in the save
19:38<Samu>also loaded as civilai for me
19:38<Samu>very strange
19:38<Samu>the 1975 loads fine
19:38<Samu>the 2024 doesnt
19:39<Samu>oh wait, it loaded admiral, it took a while
19:40<Samu>why the heck does that happen
19:40<Wormnest>yeah Idk
19:40<Samu>do you have 1.8 installed, gonna try loading there
19:42<Wormnest>No I don´t have any recent version installed I always use a trunk version
19:42<Samu>what the heck, it loaded clueless
19:42<Samu>in 1.8
19:42<+glx>maybe the AI is not declared compatible
19:43<Samu>i dont have 1.7.2
19:43<Wormnest>The savegames lower on that page do load NoNoCab. Could it have been a bug in the save code in the version that you used.
19:43<Samu>where can i download?
19:44<Samu>savegame is made with 1.7.2
19:48<Samu>maybe that version of NoNoCAB was modified?
19:48<Samu>gonna see what visual studio says
19:52<Samu>building
19:59<Samu>weird, the savegame loaded it as if it was saved as a random ai
20:05<Samu>i dont have 1.7.2, wish i had
20:05<Samu>wanted to see how that would load
20:05<@peter1138>https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-releases/1.7.2.html
20:06<Samu>oh, cool ty
20:07<Samu>impossible, also loads some other ai
20:07<Samu>...
20:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg
20:09<Samu>why would it save as random ai
20:09<Samu>makes no sense
20:11<Samu>maybe it was a save made in a multiplayer game
20:11<Samu>and I wasn't the host
20:11<Samu>I was in the client when i saved game
20:11<Samu>possible explanation, as clients don't run the ai
20:22<Samu>okay, infrastructure maintenance costs are too harsh on the AIs :( gonna postpone this test
20:26<Samu>will try it enabled but with relatively low costs for compensation
20:26<Samu>at a later round
20:40<Samu>hmm the ais are struggling
20:41<Samu>perhaps I made it a bit too difficult
20:42<Samu>even without infrastructure maintenance, they're having a hard time
20:46<Samu>ok, gonna change settings again
20:56<Samu>512x512 map with low number of towns and industries
20:57<Samu>but this time terrain is flat, very smooth
20:57<Samu>and they start with 500k loan
20:57<Samu>high costs, disasters, breakdowns
21:00<Samu>towns also dont grow
21:00<Samu>and are hostile
21:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc commented on issue #7268: Suggestion: Option not to disclose server information when password-protected https://git.io/fj30A
21:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc commented on pull request #7521: Fix: Stop Construction Windows Closing on Company Rename (Issue #7479) https://git.io/fj30h
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21:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #7255: Crashlog truncated with many news messages https://git.io/fj3EY
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 23 00:00:09 2019