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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-04-27

---Logopened Sat Apr 27 00:00:15 2019
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03:13<@peter1138>Oops, I broke the scenario editor.
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03:35<@LordAro>Alberth: feel like looking into 6605 a bit more? :)
03:36<@Alberth>I read your explorations, didn't help much in understanding what happens
03:37<@Alberth>hmm, maybe add a watch on the poolsize changing?
03:42<@LordAro>watchpoints make everything super slow
03:42<@LordAro>i suspect that there actually 5 i valid depots in the savegame
03:43<@LordAro>though i've no idea how they got there
03:46<@Alberth>set a break point at the afterload "thingie 5" point
03:46<@Alberth>then add a watch
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03:53<@LordAro>isn't that too late though? the depot pool has already been initialised by that point
03:53<@peter1138>It's all too late cos it's already happened ;)
03:54<@Alberth>it's a bug in an earlier conversion?
03:55<@peter1138>The savegame is already broken.
03:57<@peter1138>Ok, should I add the show-coverage button to the scenario editor town window, or just ignore coverage there?
03:57<@Alberth>ie in an earlier upgrade to the current version of the savegame thus
03:57<@peter1138>Is it?
03:57<@LordAro>or in how the game was originally saved
03:57<@peter1138>I don't think so.
03:57<@Alberth>I don't know
03:57<@peter1138>It's just a broken save as far as I know.
03:58<@peter1138>But one that's been reported more than once.
03:58<@LordAro>peter1138: seems useful to add it to the scenario editor?
03:58<@Alberth>adding it to the SE would be useful, people may want to pixel-perfect put down industries etc
03:59<@peter1138>Urgh, debug build loading slow :p
04:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
04:03<andythenorth>meh old Severn Bridge is closed
04:03<andythenorth>such wind
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04:18<Wolf01>I think I got lost there once, playing geoguessr
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04:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
04:41<@LordAro>ok, can't use IsDepotTile inside Load_DEPT, it's too early
04:41<@LordAro>they're all invalid :)
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04:51<@LordAro>alright, that actually works, interesting
04:51<@LordAro> i feel like this is another savegame conversion bug
04:56<@Alberth>looks like it :)
04:56<@LordAro>i do believe i have a fix for the invalid depots though
04:56<@LordAro>not sure how correct it is, but..
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05:00<@LordAro>and also fixes 6507
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05:56<Samu>aha, finally a round where my AI sucks
05:59<Samu>doesn't even build
05:59<Samu>looks like 100k is too little for a route
06:01<Samu> this song is awesome but the video is horrible...
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06:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
06:04<andythenorth>weird forums day
06:04<andythenorth>is NRT merged then?
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06:30<Wolf01>7km walk, not so much tired but completely wet
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06:39<Artea>GoG is selling Theme Hospital for 5.29 euros
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06:46<andythenorth>Hog Hog Hog
06:46<andythenorth>it's big it's wood it's Hog
06:50<Artea>900+ years
06:51<Artea>so happy my vps can handle OTTD
06:58<Artea>sad max loan is capped
06:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #7534: GSGoal.QuestionClient sends message to wrong client
07:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
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07:20<andythenorth>much and very sprites
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07:40<alekseiytalanov>Good classic graphic for oldschool
07:42<alekseiytalanov>This is game OpenTTD Configure this game setup graphic and settings and setup game with NewGRF and start transport business
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07:53<@LordAro> hmm.
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08:07<@peter1138>Wolf01, rained or... sweaty? :p
08:09<andythenorth>LordAro: do we use it? o_O
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08:12<@LordAro>andythenorth: i'm not actually sure
08:12<@LordAro>it was the unreliable part of ...something
08:13<@LordAro>but i can't remember if that got fixed when azure happened
08:13<@LordAro>@seen Truebrain
08:13<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Truebrain was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 5 days, 18 hours, 12 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> if that is the excuse, I am done
08:15*andythenorth tries to figure it out from
08:16<andythenorth>not finding anything from searching
08:17<@LordAro>well it definitely uses docker
08:17<@LordAro>and that will use dockerhub by default
08:19<nielsm>yeah it publishes to docker hub
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08:21<nielsm>doesn't look like there is any unusual activity from the public feed
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08:24<@peter1138>Ok so shall I add code to handle the case when that Coverage button is missing insteaD?
08:24<nielsm>having it to show town boundaries could be nice too
08:24<nielsm>maybe even the town zones
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08:39<andythenorth>so is the update to the website image expected?
08:39*andythenorth has NFI how it all works
08:40<nielsm>yes, the website is updated every time a new nightly is uploaded
08:40<nielsm>since the links need to be fixed to point to the new nightly
08:44<nielsm>working on script interface for querying efficiency data from
08:45<nielsm>I'm thinking making just the percent rating available to AI, but also making the raw numbers (cargo-tiles travelled and ditto delivered) available to GS
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't it be easier to have both with the same data access?
08:49<nielsm>the difference is just adding @api -ai to the declaration or not, afaik
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08:49<nielsm>but the raw numbers aren't available to human players so an AI shouldn't be able to get them either
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>what's the rationale for hiding it from the player?
08:57<@peter1138>Switched back to Mate from Gnome. At least I can resize OpenTTD properly :p
08:58<@peter1138>I guess it's not so much hiding rather than not displaying too much mostly irrelevant data?
08:58<nielsm>Eddi|zuHause: mostly that they're very large numbers that are difficult to make sense of
08:58<@peter1138>(Like articulated overtaking vehicles isn't "disabled")
08:58<nielsm>difficult to fit into the UI in a sensible way
08:59*peter1138 ponders support for house tile layouts...
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>NoOvertaking branch next?
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09:00<@peter1138>I don't know. Maybe it's something NRT could address?
09:01<@peter1138>"Highways" are currently useless.
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like it's out of scope for NRT
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>feels very orthogonal
09:01<@peter1138>Sort of.
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>but it ties in with all the state machine bullshit
09:02<@peter1138>Yeah, 3-lane highways might be nice.
09:02<@peter1138>And, perhaps, 1-lane tracks.
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>1 lane tram on 2 lane road
09:03<@peter1138>There's no provision for tram/road compatibility :/
09:03<@peter1138>Like, tram down the middle between two lanes.
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>lane offsets
09:04<@peter1138>Maybe the game should define... yes, that.
09:04<nielsm>bool do_overtake = (my_max_speed > blocking_vehicle_max_speed + 5) && ((my_max_speed - blocking_vehicle_max_speed) * blocking_vehicle_length < distance_to_next_intersection);
09:04<nielsm>there solved the problem for you
09:05<@peter1138>nielsm, now make it an option to satisfy the "it should be an option like 90 degrees" ... o_O
09:05<nielsm>hell no make that a newgrf flag on road types
09:05<@peter1138>Hmm, so if NRT gets to define lines... maybe it defines the direction of a lane as well.
09:06<@peter1138>Overtaking trams!
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>parallel tram stations would be nice
09:06<nielsm>well could maybe have "tram lanes"?
09:06<nielsm>like boulevards with tram tracks in the middle
09:06<andythenorth>all these things
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>also: two-tile wide road, 2 road lanes ->, 1 tram lane ->, 1 tram lane <-, 2 road lanes <-
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>there should be space for 4 lanes on a tile
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>(with no sidewalk)
09:08<@peter1138>7 different lanes?
09:08<andythenorth>also bus-stops :P
09:08<nielsm>hmm, I wonder if it really is right to use just int32 for these cargotiles values
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>problem with offset lanes is, how to make transition tiles?
09:09<andythenorth>newgrf lanes!
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>also, height offset?
09:09<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, quite.
09:11<@peter1138>So, er...
09:11<@peter1138>Yeah, how to transition?
09:11<@peter1138>And not via hormones.
09:12<Eddi|zuHause><insert inappropriate comment here>
09:13<@peter1138>And... we already have one-way roads via map bits.
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>that should probably be ripped out then
09:13*peter1138 attempts to think.
09:14<@peter1138>Maybe consider them as they are: no-entry flags
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>transition tiles would work like crossing, composed of trackbits?
09:14<nielsm>how would a transition from regular road with tram track to two one-way roads (opposite directions) in parallel with tram track in the middle even look?
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09:14<nielsm>just visually
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>the transition is in the center of the tile, provided by the NewGRF
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09:16<Eddi|zuHause>also, bidirectional tram track, but no signalling? :)
09:18<@peter1138>Okay... so...
09:19<@peter1138>I guess we don't want new road types for each possible lane combination?
09:19<@peter1138>Or do we?
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>what i'm imagining now is: each roadtype defines valid lane configurations, and the configuration is stored with the trackbit somehow
09:19<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, that's where I was just headed.
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>then the NewGRF is responsible to provide graphics for all configuration combinations
09:20<@peter1138>Then it can use varactions to pick the graphics based on the lanes.
09:21<@peter1138>There's a few spare bits lying around.
09:25<nielsm> bad edit, I can't think of a good way to make the transition here
09:25<nielsm>that doesn't involve a 2x2 tile prefab
09:26<@LordAro>peter1138: fixed the "maglev under bridges gets converted to standard rail" issue
09:26<@LordAro>guess what caused it :)
09:27<@peter1138>A bug!
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09:28<@peter1138>Tell me then :p
09:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
09:31<@LordAro>peter1138: ^ get told
09:32<@peter1138> Yay
09:32<@peter1138>Someone mentioned old saves were broken a few months ago but never provided any examples for me to work with.
09:33<@peter1138>And never filed a bug, so it got forgotten.
09:33<@peter1138>And by someone, I mean a dev.
09:33<@LordAro>well there were 2 examples in the previously mentioned bug reports :p
09:33<@LordAro>i think nielsm mentioned TTO saves were broken
09:33<@LordAro>and i imagine no one's tried TTD saves in a while
09:33<@peter1138>This was several months ago.
09:34<@peter1138>And it was an off the cuff remark in IRC. Not here.
09:34<@peter1138>So that's a backport candidate :p
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09:35<@peter1138>But hey, that's not why depots were wrong ;p
09:35<@peter1138>And those bug reports were about crashing on load, not wrong rail types.
09:35<@LordAro>true, but once you fixed those issues... ;)
09:35<@peter1138>You'd have to look around the map to notice it was wrong as well, as it wasn't specifically reported.
09:35<@peter1138>You got lucky.
09:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
09:37<@LordAro> heh, 12 year old me
09:38<@peter1138>Damn, I was ~27 when I started tinkering with OpenTTD.
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>i was ~12 when i started playing TTO
09:38<@LordAro>yeah, but you're all old
09:39<@LordAro>i think i was introduced to TTD when i was 6 or 7
09:39<@LordAro>not sure i ever played TTO, though i think we had it
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>i found TTD(Patch) around 2001-ish
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>and OpenTTD around 2006?
09:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
09:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
09:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
09:45<Artea>is together with OTTD 0.3.4
09:46<Artea>thought I had TT
09:47<@peter1138>Hmm, I have to remember how to start pulseaudio on Windows :/
09:47<@LordAro>...on Windows?
09:47<@peter1138>Yes, I use it to get sound out of my Hyper-V Linux VM :p
09:48<@peter1138>Hyper-V assumes you're running Windows in it and using Remote Desktop, so just does audio that way.
09:49<@LordAro>ooh, found another save that crashes
09:49<@LordAro>this one looks kdtree related
09:49<@peter1138>Yeah, that happens.
09:49<@peter1138>ProZone 13 is one such save.
09:49<@peter1138>There's a PR to fix it
09:50<@LordAro>which one?
09:50<@peter1138>Problem is the usual dependency issues :(
09:50<nielsm> looks a bit awkward maybe
09:51<@peter1138>Basically it depends on the map array before the map array has been converted.
09:51<@peter1138>Profit: £29,573 £154,587
09:51<@peter1138>Efficiency: 76% 73%
09:52<nielsm>I did consider making it a table
09:52<@LordAro>peter1138: confirmed, that PR fixes it
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09:52<nielsm>but the profit numbers can also get lartge
09:53<nielsm>especially if you use currencies like yen
09:53<@peter1138>Well, it can get wider?
09:53<@peter1138>Depends what's worse :p
09:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
09:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7371: Kdtree is built too early in savegame loading process
09:58<Artea>TT is back :O
09:58<@LordAro>except it's actually locomotion
09:58<@peter1138>Yeah, Locomotion.
09:58<@peter1138>Also, not for Windowsx.
09:58<@peter1138>Been out a few years.
09:59<frosch123>Artea: <- there is a whole forum section about it
10:00<Artea>I'm so off I didn't knew
10:00<@peter1138>There was even a bunch of tt-forumers who met up with... someone? CS even? about it.
10:01<frosch123>nah, with the marketing guy
10:01<frosch123>not cs
10:01<@peter1138>Yeah, figures :)
10:02<Artea>I was talking to my friend yesterday and he asked something that I'm curious
10:03<Artea>is there an year cap or goes on forever ?
10:03<@peter1138>Try it.
10:03<Artea>I am
10:03<Artea>that is one of the goals of my server
10:04<frosch123>in which year did you start?
10:04<Artea> 2905-04-21
10:04<frosch123>good luck :)
10:04<Artea>900 years already pass
10:04<frosch123>in how many days?
10:05*LordAro looks up the maximum year
10:05<@LordAro>hmm, might take a while
10:05<frosch123>LordAro: don't spoil it
10:05<Artea>9 days
10:05<@LordAro>i'm all about not spoiling things at the moment
10:05<@LordAro>bloody endgame and not getting to see it until tuesday
10:06<@peter1138>It was good.
10:06<Artea>towns already reach 100k
10:06<frosch123>Artea: make contact with some cryosleep company
10:07<frosch123>or write a letter to your grand-grand-children
10:08<Artea>capped loan sux :(
10:08<@LordAro>in 900 years you're not sitting on silly piles of money?
10:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
10:09<Artea>I am
10:09<@LordAro>oh, inflation on?
10:09<Artea>and too many aircraft crashes
10:09<Artea>even with reduced mode
10:11<Artea>I wanted to start AroAI yesterday
10:11<Artea>but don't know
10:11<Artea>seems off now after so long
10:11<Artea>still have player playing
10:11<Artea>also dp joined yesterday
10:12<@LordAro>i'm not sure there are any AIs that are properly balanced to actually play against
10:12<@LordAro>SimpleAI, maybe
10:13<@LordAro>but my knowledge of AIs is about 5 years out of date
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10:13<Artea>but crashes after 10 years or so
10:14<@LordAro>i wonder if in the event of a crash, the game should just restart the AI and pretend nothing happened
10:15<@LordAro>(with appropriate protections against repeated crashing)
10:17<Artea>I wonder how you bot would handle towns with 50k+ population
10:17<Artea>about that
10:18<Artea>probably is a good feature
10:18<Artea>but had to filter some crashes
10:18<Artea>CPU excessed usage is one of them
10:18<Artea>which is what crashes AIAI
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10:23<@peter1138>Rip quality: 100.00%
10:23<@peter1138>1) Needless precision 2) Buying CDs, LOL...
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10:30<Artea>93 years left
10:30<Artea>to reach first goal :D
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10:43<nielsm>hmm, ScriptGroup::GetProfitThisYear() seems to not handle sub-groups correctly
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10:46<Eddi|zuHause2>so, who ordered this weather?
10:47<Artea>is from Portugal
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10:48<Eddi|zuHause>it's always portugal, with their azores
10:48<nielsm>hm okay maybe it is fine after all
10:49<Artea>I never went to Azores or Madeira
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>i went to algarve once
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>that was like 20 years ago
10:54<Artea>I live in Algarve
10:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
10:55<@peter1138>I went to Algarve a few years ago.
10:55<@peter1138>Hired a car and drove to the top of Fóia, cos... why not?
10:56<@peter1138>It was closed.
10:56<Artea>did u enjoy the beach ?
10:57<@peter1138>Yeah, but it was a bit early in the year so not hot all the time. Had a few days of sun and some of rain.
10:58<Artea>is like now
10:58<Artea>but rain 2 days ago
10:58<@peter1138>Yeah, it was mid-May iirc.
10:59<Artea>you should try September
10:59<Artea>August is too crowd
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>we went in like february and the locals thought we were crazy for going into the water :p
10:59<Artea>yeah that is normal, Eddi
11:01<Artea>humidity is the worse
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11:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
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11:35<@peter1138>Hmm, so, NewGRF debug window..
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11:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7104: Fix #5405: Aircraft could route to depots outside their range
11:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7328: Improve restart
11:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7328: Improve restart
11:42<@LordAro>anyone got any thoughts on #7340?
11:42<@LordAro>i'm increasingly of the opinion that the TGP values need changing generally, everything is far too flat
11:43<@peter1138>The whole thing needs redoing :p
11:44<@LordAro>well maybe that
11:44<@LordAro>i was under the impression that TGP was already a fairly general perlin noise generator though
11:45<@peter1138>Because it writes directly to the map array, it can't be used for nice extras, such as using a separate perlin map to select areas to be desert.
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>... or meandering rivers
11:48<@peter1138>No, git rebase, I don't want to pick ancient revisions that have svn revisions in 2000s range. Or any at all, tbh.
11:51<@LordAro>so we're in agreement on the TGP thing
11:51<@LordAro>but as an interim fix...
11:53<@peter1138>+typedef SmallVector<SignalReference, 4> SignalDependencyList;
11:53<@peter1138>Hmm, maybe JGR hasn't updated for a while? Or left SmallVector in.
11:55<@peter1138>Or maybe he just doesn't work with these branches any more.
11:58<Eddi|zuHause><nielsm> bad edit, I can't think of a good way to make the transition here <-- i fear to make that not-horrible we also need diagonal track pieces
12:01<@peter1138>Let's see what all the fuss is about with JGRPP anyway.
12:01<@peter1138>Oh. Doesn't compile.
12:02<@peter1138>As it's the "de-facto standard" that's somewhat unexpected.
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>you mean, a loud minority?
12:03<@peter1138>That one, yes.
12:03<@peter1138>So I was seriously going to look at programmable signals...
12:04<@peter1138>Maybe I'll try the progsig-rebase branch.
12:04<@peter1138>Oh, that doesn't compile either.
12:04<@peter1138>Nor progsig-sx. Hmm.
12:05<@peter1138>That isn't promising.
12:05<@peter1138>If it only works as an old-style block signal, fuck that.
12:06<@peter1138>So routing restrictions... is sort of similar in idea, I think?
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>was that the one that works with waypoints?
12:18<@peter1138>I don't know. I was going to compile it to test but no luck compiling.
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>considered that it might be just you? :p
12:19<@peter1138>error: 'UpdateWidgetSize' overrides a member function but is not marked 'override'
12:19<@peter1138>Probably not just me.
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a "it probably compiles with less strict settings"
12:21<@peter1138>You mean not everyone uses -Werror?
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12:23<@peter1138>Yeah, that was it. Shed loads of warnings.
12:23<@LordAro>i imagine the override will cause a load of them
12:30<@peter1138>"If entered signal of PBS block is at ..."
12:30<@peter1138>PBS block... lol
12:33<@peter1138>Yeah, so programmable signals don't with with path signals. Useless.
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>i probably made that complaint like 5 years ago...
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>i certainly said that about signals in tunnels
12:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
12:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7542: Fix #7255: Prevent crashlog corruption by only printing the 20 most recent news messages
12:41<@peter1138>path restrictions can be on any signal but... they're just a hint, I guess.
12:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7542: Fix #7255: Prevent crashlog corruption by only printing the 32 most recent news messages
12:43<nielsm>thinking about PBS programmable signals, most basic just "valid path endpoints" which are tiles (which must either have a signal on them or be station platform at end of line)
12:44<nielsm>and extensible with multiple groups of valid endpoints where each group has some condition on it about the train "class"
12:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
12:44<nielsm>and a default group
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12:47<@LordAro>i'm tempted to close #7502
12:47<nielsm>could maybe with a system like that allow pointing to path endpoints that are further down the line and that way reserve a path through multiple signals
12:48<@peter1138>LordAro, yes.
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: no objections
12:49<@peter1138>LordAro, is the STAT_CLASS_MAX = 256 -> 255 change no issue?
12:49<@LordAro>maybe it is a good idea, but without the extra setting?
12:49<@LordAro>peter1138: glx didn't think so
12:49<@LordAro>that's about all i can tell you :)
12:50<@peter1138>As far as I know, if it changes anything then you get 255 classes tops instead of 256t.
12:50<@peter1138>And... who has that many station classes?
12:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type
12:55<@peter1138>#7542, what's the fixed buffer size that's being reached?
12:57<@LordAro>char buffer[65536];
12:57<@LordAro>but regardless, hundreds of news messages is a bit ugly
12:57<@LordAro>and unnecessary
13:00<@peter1138>Hmm, does the buffer overflow somewhere?
13:00<nielsm>if there's hundreds of recent news messages that in itself might be a symptom :)
13:00<nielsm>no it doesn't overflow
13:01<nielsm>it just stops writing more to it
13:01<nielsm>so the crashlog is truncated
13:01<@peter1138>Hmm, the PR says "corruption"
13:02<@LordAro>the issue said corruption :p
13:02<@LordAro>wait, no it didn't
13:02<@LordAro>peter1138: eh, squash it and reword the commit :p
13:03<nielsm>"nice but not necessary": write a line about how many messages were not writen
13:03<@peter1138>I'm not too worried, just that if was actual corruption and buffer overflows, then the 32 limit felt a bit arbitrary.
13:03<nielsm>"+ 234 more recent news"
13:04<@peter1138>But if it's just truncated rather than corrupted then sure.
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13:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7502: Feature: Allow or disallow large aeroplanes to land on airports with short runways
13:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #7502: Feature: Allow or disallow large aeroplanes to land on airports with short runways
13:09<nielsm>"tell the player if the gun is pointed an unsafe way, but don't attempt to grasp at it if it looks like they're about to shoot themselved in the fooot"
13:10<nielsm>so much typos
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13:20<nielsm>is it perhaps something to codify at ?
13:21<nielsm>how "player attempting to set up an unsafe situation" should be handled
13:21<@LordAro>not a bad idea
13:21<nielsm>since the direction has so far always seemed to be don't disallow but, but do warn the player
13:33<@peter1138>Hmm, so our releases are running bad on OS X?
13:33<@peter1138>I guess not everyone sees that.
13:33<@LordAro>running bad?
13:35<@LordAro>without someone who actually knows how to debug such things, it's really difficult to do anything about it
13:35<@LordAro>one person seems to think it's related to the road vehicle performance stuff
13:35<@LordAro>but he's not on OSX
13:36<nielsm>how's this?
13:36<nielsm>In general the game should allow anything that doesn't violate basic rules. Players should only be prevented from performing actions that are impossible, such as sending a bus to a truck stop, but always allow actions that merely are risky or "stupid", such as sending a bus to a bus stop that could never get passengers. Instead the game should try to warn players about potentially bad
13:36<nielsm>situations, such as warning messages about unprofitable vehicles.
13:36<_dp_>LordAro, it's related on linux but not on osx
13:38<@LordAro>nielsm: perhaps a different example? given afaik the game does not warn about sending buses to bus stops with no acceptance :)
13:40<nielsm>no but it does warn you that the vehicle has made no profits
13:45<nielsm>"For example players are not prevented from starting vehicles with no orders, but the game will send a warning about vehicles having too few orders. Because players are allowed to do so, some have made it a challenge to make working transport networks where vehicles have no orders."
13:47<SpComb>I remember trying to build a road network without any orders
13:47<SpComb>for trains it's easy, particularly if you do point-to-point
13:48<SpComb>but building a couple bus stops in some towns, linking them together with roads and then spamming a ton of busses without any orders has a certain appeal
13:48<SpComb>because iirc it does kinda work
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13:49<Samu>round 10 complete
13:50<nielsm>did the wiki edit now
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14:02<_dp_>nielsm, nice but where was that logic when overbuilding one-way roads with stations was prohibited in 1.9?
14:03<nielsm>I don't know, was it intentional?
14:03<_dp_>nielsm, apparently yes
14:04<_dp_>also, cough cough, overbuilding signals with rail would be nice ;)
14:04<_dp_>risky and "stupid" but I like it :p
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14:07<@peter1138>IIRC it was possible to overbuild other company's one-way roads.
14:08<_dp_>peter1138, dunno about other companies but now I can't overbuild my own :(
14:09<@peter1138>That's okay, just remove the one-way flags first.
14:10<_dp_>peter1138, if I remove it gets crowded by vehicles
14:11<@peter1138>Are you now saying you have a use-case for overbuilding one-way roads, rather than just saying "you can't do it any more"
14:11<_dp_>peter1138, so, basically instead of just building a station now I have to stop all vehicles around, remove one-way, build station, start vehicles again
14:11<@peter1138>So *THAT* has never been mentioned before.
14:11<@peter1138>It's almost like we have to be psychic.
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14:13<@LordAro>peter1138: haven't you been issued with your crystal ball yet?
14:14<_dp_>peter1138, what that? I explained it all here the moment I noticed I couldn't extend my station like before.
14:14<_dp_>peter1138, didn't notice it when the code change was being made sadly :(
14:14<@LordAro>also our memories are not good
14:14<@peter1138>Where it gets lost are a few minutes.
14:15<nielsm>the issue tracker exists to keep track of issues
14:17<@peter1138>Jun 6th 2018, I fixed it.
14:17<@peter1138>We were using git back then.
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14:20<_dp_>well, when I first brought it up here I got the impressions it's pointless to open an issue
14:20<_dp_>I guess it was just Eddi arguing so mb should've just ignored him :p
14:21<@peter1138>It's never pointless to open issues.
14:21<_dp_>peter1138, say that to stalebot :p
14:21<@peter1138>That's not even my idea.
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure i like stalebot either
14:22<@peter1138>It's definitely pointless to comment on here, without explaining your reasoning, and then of course it will be lost because time is fleeting.
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>i do remember that discussion about roads
14:22<dwfreed>I think your development cycle is too slow for stalebot
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>stalebot is here to relief andy of the burden to tell people that their PR is bad
14:23<dwfreed>honestly stalebot only makes sense in a few narrow cases
14:24<@peter1138>So anyway, Jun 6th is WAY before stalebot.
14:24<nielsm>also stalebot ignores issues tagged "regression"
14:24<nielsm>so if you have a genuine regression bug it won't get autoclosed
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>but does that cover regressions of the kind "please reinstate spacebar overheating"?
14:29<@peter1138>Okay... so error message... should it be the "owned by ..." or the current "road is one way or blocked"
14:30<nielsm>"owned by" imo
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>[5. April 2019] [17:56:15 CEST] <_dp_> but whose bright idea was to forbid road stations on one-way road? :(
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>that's 4 weeks ago
14:32<@peter1138>Somewhat later than the original commit.
14:33<_dp_>peter1138, somewhat immediately after original release :p
14:34<@peter1138>So yeah, I see I was even there, but all I see a rant.
14:35<@peter1138>stalebot probably wouldn't've even closed it yet if you had made a proper report.
14:36<_dp_>peter1138, ok, ok, I'll make a proper report
14:36<@peter1138>No point now.
14:37<_dp_>peter1138, I was just kinda pissed that stuff got broken
14:37<@peter1138>It wasn't broken, it was fixed.
14:37<@peter1138>You could previously remove other company's one-way bits.
14:38<_dp_>peter1138, also even if there is no point for one-way issue there still may be for cloning...
14:38<_dp_>peter1138, that kinda got "fixed" as well
14:38<@peter1138>So what the fuck are you talking about now?
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: i don't think it helps your cause by randomly merging and hopping topics like that
14:38<@peter1138>We still don't have crystal balls.
14:39<_dp_>peter1138, I'll make a proper report when I got a clear opinion on that :p
14:40<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, ok, ok, nothing's broken ... for now :p
14:45<_dp_>but basically, cloning vehicle doesn't open vehicle window anymore
14:45<_dp_>which is nice sometimes but sometimes definitely not
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure that used to be a setting
14:45<_dp_>so I'm still experimenting with it
14:46<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, no, don't think so
14:47<_dp_>actually, it's ctrl-cloning, just cloning still opens it
14:48<nielsm>hmm actually, ctrl-cloning should maybe open the depot window instead
14:48<Eddi|zuHause> (svn r24808) -Feature(ette) [FS#4458]: When share-cloning vehicles don't open the vehicle window of the new vehicle. The only reasonable thing to do with the new vehicle is to start it, which can also be done via the depot GUI.
14:48<Eddi|zuHause> Change: Clone tool in depot window now behaves like clone button in vehicle window. Keep the tool active when share-cloning. Open the vehicle GUI when copy-cloning. (#6754)
14:48<nielsm>e.g. if you've opened an in-depot rv via the vehicles list and then ctrl-clone it, you would get the depot window opened to see the new vehicle there
14:49<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, I even commented on that issue but seeing it now I'm having some doubts
14:50<_dp_>basically the idea was to make cloning from depot behave the same as cloning from vehicle
14:50<_dp_>but now that I think of it they're quite different
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>there's also this one: (svn r24955) -Change (r24808) [FS#4458]: Revert to opening the vehicle GUI again when cloning vehicles using the clone-button from the depot GUI. This button cannot be used for sequential cloning, so the argument about opening many windows does not hold as it does for the clone button from the vehicle GUI.
14:51<_dp_>as cloning from vehicle means it's in the same depot and yeah, opening that depot makes sense if it's not open for some reason
14:51<_dp_>but cloning from depot may mean you're on entirely different side of track and you need to verify/skip orders
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>opening the depot does sound sensible
14:58<Artea>we should be able to buy a company with no clients for 5 or 10 years
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>Artea: change the autoclean mode so it treats it like bankrupcy?
14:59<Artea>I didn't activated
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably not an existing feature
14:59<Artea>I don't know how it work ingame
15:00<Artea>well, I don't think dp company will bankrupt that soon
15:00<_dp_>Artea, lol how is it still alive?
15:01<_dp_>just closes the damn thing! xD
15:01<Artea>500M profit I'm not mistaken
15:01<Artea>206M company value
15:03<Artea>and sorry, 206B
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>that should be G?
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the abbreviations are k,M,G,T,...
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15:05<_dp_>I disabled autoclean on citymania recently as it crashed server
15:05<_dp_>some players were quite surprised getting 1 bil goal in 48 hours xD
15:05<Artea>M = Million | B = Billion
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15:07<_dp_>as for cloning after a bit of thought I think I'd prefer to have "clone last" button in depot instead of clone button in vehicle
15:07<_dp_>so just clone would always open vehicle window but clone last won't
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>Artea: in my world, Billion is 10^12, not 10^9
15:08<_dp_>that always got me confused about english
15:08<_dp_>just how do I say 1000000000 in a way that people on both sides of globe understand?
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>that's why i popose 1G
15:09<Artea>I don't know
15:09<Artea>we have a middle between Million and Billion
15:09<@peter1138>1000 million ;)
15:09<nielsm>million, milliard, billion, billiard, ...
15:09<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, imo it's like 10**9, only 1% will get it :p
15:09<nielsm>yes "short" and "long" scales
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15:10<@LordAro>almost no one uses long scales anymore, i thought?
15:10<_dp_>peter1138, oh, right, that's what I'm using now xD
15:11<_dp_>still sounds weird imo
15:11<@LordAro>billion will be understood by the vast majority to be 10^9
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: i'm going to propose that more people worldwide use long scale than short scale
15:11<@LordAro>*in english
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: that doesn't help anyone
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15:13<@LordAro>the only time i've ever known anyone use the long scale in English is to ask "is this in long or short scale?", usually just after they've read some fact site or some other silly website
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15:14<@LordAro>i understand that directly translating the words to other languages means the values don't necessarily line up
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>i've been sprinkling long scale in occasionally
15:15<+glx>using power of 10 is easier ;)
15:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7547: Change: Allow building road stops over self-owned one-way/blocked road.
15:20<_dp_>thanks, peter1138 xD
15:20<nielsm>but that doesn't mean the stop will be one-way, right?
15:20<_dp_>nielsm, hope not xD
15:20<nielsm>in which case it needs to have one-way roads on one or both ends
15:21<nielsm>to remain one-way
15:21<@peter1138>No, it gets removed.
15:21<+glx>pathfinder will probably take care of that
15:21<nielsm>in which case it would not be a problem removing one-way-ness from the road pieces you intend to build over since the road pieces leading into them would already be one-way
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15:22<@peter1138>It was never really a problem to remove one-way-ness. The problem was the ability to remove another player's one-way-ness.
15:22<nielsm>in other words, I don't see why this would become a problem: <_dp_> peter1138, so, basically instead of just building a station now I have to stop all vehicles around, remove one-way, build station, start vehicles again
15:23<@peter1138>You don't always have space.
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15:25<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: when _dp_ says "one way", he actually means "blocked both ways"
15:25<@peter1138>Hmm, I can't remember my ./configure parameters for ARM cross-compilation.
15:25<@peter1138>Wait, config.log will have it :p
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15:29<@peter1138>So my main issue is compiling with SDL.
15:32<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, that's half-truth
15:32<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, I uses one-ways as a turnaround point for vehicles coming from that side
15:32<nielsm>situation B would never be a problem
15:32<nielsm>situation A would be same with or without change
15:32<nielsm>situation C is it?
15:32<@peter1138>nielsm, I'm not sure what you are trying to analyze now.
15:33<+glx>nielsm: not a problem, user should know what it's doing
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>i go with my initial opinion, the station should remember the oneway-ness. but that might get complicated...
15:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7548: Fix #7165: Missed another Append() to push_back() replacement
15:35<nielsm>actually I don't see how either of those situations have it matter whether you remove the one-way-ness first and then build the stop, or can build the stop directly on top
15:35<@peter1138>nielsm, nobody knows what you're analyzing or why!
15:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7548: Fix #7165: Missed another Append() to push_back() replacement
15:36<@peter1138>nielsm, the intial issue was that you could overbuild *somebody elses* oneway/blocked roads, and it would remove them.
15:36<nielsm>peter1138: I'm trying to understand why it matters that you'd have to remove one-way-ness before building a station on top
15:36<@peter1138>nielsm, I fixed that but preventing overbuilding in all cases.
15:36<nielsm>I can't think of any scenario where removing it first would let vehicles move somewhere they wouldn't be able to anyway after building a stop
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15:37<@peter1138>nielsm, you can't build a road-stop if there are vehicles on a tile.
15:38<@peter1138>nielsm, if it's blocked, you there will be no vehicles on the tile.
15:39<@peter1138>Hmm, I could do with an android emulator.
15:39<@peter1138>I don't think it'll work inside hyper-v though :/
15:39<nielsm>so it's road-block used as owned land except the town can build houses out from it
15:40<_dp_>nielsm, well, I was mostly talking about stuff like this:
15:40<_dp_>nielsm, good luck extending that in 1.9
15:41<+glx>build on pause ;)
15:42<_dp_>glx, pause? what's that? :p
15:42<@peter1138>Then they're just be paused on the tiles you want to build on :p
15:42*_dp_ plays mp only
15:42<nielsm>(in my world that kind of setup should not count towards city growth)
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>i'm still thinking ctrl+click to stop the vehicle would properly handle your use case...
15:43<+glx>you only need to stop one vehicle I think
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, stop 1 vehicle, and be done with the upgrade before the quantum tunneling triggers
15:46<V453000>yay haven't seen this one in a while Unable to allocate ID for [random]switch, sprite set/layout/group or produce-block. Try reducing the number of such blocks.
15:47<@peter1138>Oh nice, github now lets me choose which identity to use.
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you have too many switches alive at the same time, try reordering things?
15:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7548: Fix #7165: Missed another Append() to push_back() replacement
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: a switch is "alive" between its definition, and the last use
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: only 256 switches may be "alive" at the same time
15:48<V453000>I know Eddi, I didn't add, just re-ordered :) moving big parts of code around
15:48<V453000>I was afraid of this
15:48<V453000>ah, good to know the number at least :)
15:49<V453000>I've got a convoluted system where a train can look like a wagon but a wagon can look like a train :)
15:50<V453000>so of course you need all of them at the same time :D but I can split some, should work
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>you might need to duplicate a few things
15:50<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, easier said than done: they're constantly moving and clipping all over each other
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: i don't see the problem, you still only need to stop one
15:51<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, and it's already dangerous enougt, one wrong move and you got a horde of trucks running amok in your town xD
15:51<V453000>not sure actually, will be a mess either way
15:52<V453000>actually now I read the line where the switch fails to be created, it's probably not such a nightmare
15:52<@peter1138>warning: comparison of integers of different signs: 'unsigned int' and 'socklen_t' (aka 'int')
15:53<@peter1138>Oh, we typedef int socklen_t
15:55<V453000>also, last time I arrived to this problem of running out of IDs, I had extremely random code. Now I even started using includes in my code :D custom ones from python, but still :) easy to move large chunks of code around
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: we'll get you to higher level metaprogramming at some point :p
15:56<V453000>in 62 years
15:56<@peter1138>Oh, we don't. Hmm.
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i would expect such a type to be defined in some system library
16:00<@peter1138>We define it in some cases, but not in this case.
16:00<Wolf01>Oh nice, they added the fields to Mashinky
16:00<@peter1138>./sysroot/usr/include/sys/socket.h:typedef int socklen_t;
16:01<@peter1138>So we compare a size_t with socklen_t.
16:02<@peter1138>But not in a normal build.
16:03<@LordAro>doesn't really seem like it should be an int
16:03<@LordAro>but standard library kinda wins there
16:04<@peter1138>On my system headers it's typedef __socklen_t socklen_t;
16:04<@peter1138>(And no other reference to __socklen_t)
16:06<+glx>it's defined to int for windows and os2 in os_abstraction.h
16:06<@peter1138>Yes, as it should be.
16:07<+glx>but only for MSVC
16:10<@peter1138>Hmm, does that assert warn on any build?
16:10<@peter1138>_dp_, well, I did my bit :p
16:12<_dp_>peter1138, huh?
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16:15*peter1138 attempts to play Brutal Doom
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16:22<@peter1138>Playing it on hard realism mode, heh.
16:22<@peter1138>Why does this assert not need a cast with my system headers?
16:24<@peter1138>Must be some magic, it warns if I cast it to int, as it is meant to be.
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16:28<dwfreed>peter1138: what's the line? and what's the types?
16:28<@peter1138>size_t vs socklen_t
16:29<@peter1138>aka size_t vs int
16:31<+glx>I have unsigne long long vs size_t here
16:33<nielsm>the macos slowness has the same symptoms as what I was seeing on the dos build
16:33<nielsm>i.e. no single component measures slow
16:33<dwfreed>socklen_t is uint32_t equiv
16:34<@peter1138>dwfreed, no, it's not unsigned.
16:34<dwfreed>according to my headers it is
16:34<@peter1138>That's... wrong.
16:34<dwfreed>./types.h:__STD_TYPE __U32_TYPE __socklen_t;
16:34<dwfreed>./socket.h:typedef __socklen_t socklen_t;
16:35<_dp_>nielsm, that's probably citymania client screenshot as there are no vehicles
16:35<_dp_>nielsm, they still can be slow
16:35<_dp_>nielsm, though they should be part of gameloop iirc
16:35<nielsm>yes and this is a blank game as he's writing
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16:35<nielsm>there is nothing there to make it slow
16:35<nielsm>it's not simulation related
16:36<nielsm>it seems like it's something with the timing of the main loop
16:36<nielsm>like the timer used is wrong
16:36<andythenorth>so RV overtaking is solved, in the de-facto replacement for OpenTTD?
16:36<nielsm>since it's not slow simulation, it's not slow rendering, it's not slow output
16:37<+glx>graphics rendering is low but doesn't seem fast in average
16:37<nielsm>glx: it's not 120 ms slow
16:37<+glx>but indeed it's fast enough for 33fps
16:38<nielsm>it should be able to output 600-800 fps at that rate
16:38<@peter1138>I'd assume andythenorth would have reported such slowness if it was universal on OS X, though.
16:41<andythenorth>eh what did I break now?
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16:41<nielsm>maybe has to do with hardware configuration, which system timers are available or something like that
16:41<nielsm>you never reported getting about 7 fps
16:42<andythenorth>ok so I have a busy test game open
16:43<andythenorth>where FFWD performance is a dog (as a reference point)
16:43<andythenorth>but I'm getting 60-70fps for both simulation and graphics
16:44<andythenorth>(on ffwd)
16:45<@peter1138>andythenorth, in this "bug" it's apparently really slow with an empty game.
16:45<andythenorth>ok I try
16:46<andythenorth>ok on a clean map, no vehicles, no AI
16:46<andythenorth>simulation rate is regularly passing 2k fps
16:46<nielsm>are you running fullscreen or windowed mode?
16:47<+glx>on the thread it says it's better with smaller window
16:47<@LordAro>could it be some horrifically underpowered macbook air or something?
16:48<@LordAro>i don't think there were any actual hardware specs in that thread
16:48<@peter1138>It's said that previous versions worked fine.
16:48<@LordAro>andythenorth: OS version?
16:48<@peter1138>And it'd have to be VERY unpowered to be that slow.
16:48<nielsm>if it was just underpowered hardware then the slowness would probably measure to one or more of the framerate figures
16:48<andythenorth>full disclosure, this is a self-compiled version of the NRT PR
16:48<+glx>iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) 3,8 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 Gb 2400 MHz DDR4, Radeon Pro 580 8 Gb Mohave 10.14.4
16:49<andythenorth>also I've been running OpenTTD on macs for 12 years
16:49<+glx>doesn't seem underpowered to me
16:49<@LordAro>mm, both posts in there mention 10.14
16:49<andythenorth>they used to be more underpowered than now :P
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16:49<andythenorth>10.14 might have changed the graphics API to default to Metal
16:49<andythenorth>among other changes
16:49<andythenorth>I can't upgrade, not supported at work
16:49<@LordAro>when were you plan- aw
16:50<+glx>oh so all the deprecated stuff is now slow ?
16:50<@LordAro>still doesn't explain why 1.8 was fine?
16:51<@LordAro>unless they upgraded at the same time and didn't test both
16:51<+glx>or it's the way I built the previous versions
16:52<+glx>1.8 used the old compile farm
16:52<@LordAro>we need someone with 10.14 able to test such things :)
16:52<andythenorth>I believe we have one in the forums? o_O
16:53<+glx>yeah probably need him to build 1.8.0 to compare
16:53<nielsm>can we somehow get 1.8.0 built on the new compile farm?
16:53<@LordAro>come up with a list of things for them to try
16:53<nielsm>for comparison
16:53<@LordAro>nielsm: with difficulty, i fear
16:55<nielsm>one guess at a possible reason
16:55<nielsm>though it should not give up a time slice for so long
16:55<nielsm>and should not busy-wait
16:55<@peter1138>Is that new?
16:55<@LordAro>can we just use <chrono> stuff everywhere?
16:55<@peter1138>LordAro, we do now.
16:56<nielsm>peter1138 no not here
16:56<nielsm>it uses gettimeofday
16:56<nielsm>line 90
16:56<@LordAro>the video drivers aren't using it to control their loop times, is it?
16:56<@peter1138>Oh, I was thinking of the CSleep() stuff. Oops.
16:56<@peter1138>I have a patch for that, though... (lol)
16:57<@peter1138>Oh, didn't touch OS X though.
16:57<+glx>I think it should be possible to do 1.8.0 build like it's done for PRs
16:58<@LordAro>all the version stuff would be broken, i imagine
16:58<@LordAro>but it would probably serve its purpose
16:58<@peter1138>Yeah, it's missing the pipelines stuff.
16:58<+glx>using the nightly pipeline
16:59<@LordAro>so releases/1.8 + azure-pipelines stuff? could work
16:59<nielsm>where the heck is CSleep defined in 1.9 branch?`
17:00<+glx>I can try to queue it
17:01<nielsm>okay os/unix/unix.cpp it seems
17:01<nielsm>and it does usleep(ms*1000)
17:07<+glx>ok I don't see how to queue it
17:12<nielsm>it has to be possible to unify this somehow?
17:12<+glx>ok it's not possible because "An error occurred while loading the YAML build pipeline. Could not find /azure-pipelines-release.yml in repository self hosted on using commit ebbbf0bdfb4abd849bb1f91254b60687a9660bfc. GitHub reported the error, "Not Found""
17:12<nielsm>nm that that's from 1.9 branch it's basically unchanged in master
17:13<nielsm>could we somehow make a SDL build for macos? or an allegro build?
17:14<@LordAro>nielsm: i'd like to see them merged, for sure
17:15<+glx>not easy LordAro, each driver use a different way to get system events
17:16<nielsm>well some kind of templated stuff or whatever
17:16<@LordAro>sure, each driver would need a HandleEvent() function or whatever, but the loop itself and fair bit of the before, after, and contents could do it
17:16<nielsm>that weird pattern where a superclass takes its subclass as a template parameter to get static polymorphism
17:17<@LordAro>mm, pools.
17:17<+glx>yes before and after for(;;) can probably be factorised
17:17<@LordAro>nielsm: also pls avoid
17:17<nielsm>the basic goal would be to keep the timing logic the same for all platforms
17:19<+glx>hmm or not, because all inter thread communication on windows uses windows specific stuff
17:19<nielsm>the windows driver has received lots of tender loving care over the years
17:19<nielsm>and is very unique
17:20<+glx>osx driver on the other hand ;)
17:20<+glx>when converting QSortT() I had to keep OSX different
17:21<+glx>it's still limited to 32 resolutions while all other drivers have "infinite"
17:23<nielsm>I have a (by now ancient) macbook pro around but its disk died so I'd have to get a new SSD for it and somehow install OS
17:23<nielsm>and don't know if it actually works anyway
17:24<nielsm>or could do the hackintosh -.-
17:24<nielsm>(but no guarantee it'd exhibit the bug)
17:25<milek7>funny comment on emscripten build: "I am thoroughly impressed at how smooth this is running on MacOS! It seems way more smooth than the native build for some reason."
17:26<+glx>hmm maybe split mainloop in preloop where we may start thread, mainloop, and postloop with thread cleanup if needed
17:28<+glx>but won't change much as the loop itself is full of driver specific code
17:28<+glx>for event polling and key reading
17:29<nielsm>can we make some template function that takes a bunch of function parameters and does the timing magic and calling of the game mainloop, but lets the driver fill in the other specifics?
17:31<+glx>oh and of course drawing on osx is not threaded
17:33<+glx>and I guess it was the same for dos
17:33<+glx>that may be the common point
17:34<nielsm>yeah the allegro and macos mainloops are very similar
17:34<+glx>all painting is done outside main thread for sdl and windows
17:34<milek7>--without-threads works fine for sdl
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18:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN requested changes for pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
18:10<pnda>peter1138 what changes have occured in the current master to DropDownList?
18:13<@peter1138>See PopupMainToolbMenu() in src/toolbar_gui.cpp
18:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
18:14<@peter1138>(And yea, ditch those blank newlines)
18:15<pnda>So just ->push_back was replaced with .emplace_back?
18:15<pnda>oh yeah I see it.
18:15<pnda>Well thanks, I'll update that
18:24<pnda>So I've changed the stuff and built the project. But I am still 38 commits behind master. Does that matter?
18:24<@peter1138>Just rebase it?
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18:31<pnda>So like what is this, a Fix, Add, Change, Update?
18:33<@peter1138>Does not need to change?
18:39<pnda>So I just amended my latest commit "Codechange: Set default values to 0 for air and water". Is that ok?
18:39<@peter1138>Squash it all together?
18:39<@peter1138>(fixup in rebase
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18:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda dismissed a review for pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
18:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda updated pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
18:47<pnda>Should be updated now
18:47<@peter1138>Heh, you didn't ditch the blank lines
18:47<pnda>Ohhh I forgot to do that
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18:48<pnda>I did that before rebasing and changes went away... I'll redo this now
18:48<@peter1138>"changes went away" ... um..
18:48<pnda>Yeah like I had to stash them
18:48<@peter1138>The great thing about git is commits are easy ;)
18:49<@peter1138>(Not like svn, where it goes off to the server and they're rather final...)
18:49<pnda>I just did git commit --amend is that enough for git to pick up the changes?
18:51<@peter1138>You still need to pick the files you want to add.
18:51<@peter1138>Or use -a
18:52<pnda>So git commit --amend -a will do the job right
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18:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda updated pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
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19:44<Samu>round 11 begins
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20:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7549: Fix: Clicking on scrollbar 'thumb' moved position up instantly.
20:29<Samu>oh crap, my ai suffered an humilating defeat
20:29<Samu>desert tileset too hard
20:33<Elon_Satoshi>oof ouch owie AI hurting juice
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20:39<Elon_Satoshi>What do I do when my ratings drop to atrocious in a city?
20:40<+glx>plant trees
20:40<+glx>lot of trees
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20:41<Elon_Satoshi>what do you mean?
20:43<_dp_>Elon_Satoshi, planting trees increases rating
20:44<_dp_>Elon_Satoshi, or if you're not in mp just enable magic bulldozer
20:45<_dp_>hm, though I guess bulldozer won't help when rating is already bad...
20:45<_dp_>so, that leaves trees and bribes
20:46<_dp_>enabling bulldozer just allows to avoid dealing with that nonsense in future
20:46<Elon_Satoshi>you mean i could just bulldoze the town away?
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20:47<Elon_Satoshi>i wonder what happens if i try to carry passengers n' stuff with a helicopter to and from the town that rates me atrocious
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20:48<Elon_Satoshi>Btw is multiplayer good for low bandwidth internet and high latency?
20:48*Elon_Satoshi uses satelite internet and only plays chess
20:48<@peter1138>Not really.
20:48<_dp_>Elon_Satoshi, helicopters or not doesn't matter, any active station increases rating, any inactive decreases
20:48<@peter1138>You need bandwidth initially to download the map from the server.
20:48<Elon_Satoshi>i can wait
20:49<@peter1138>And then any action you perform goes via the server, so high latency is... not too fun.
20:49<_dp_>but server usually can't :(
20:51<Elon_Satoshi>Ugh why aren't there any high latency friendly games?
20:51<Elon_Satoshi>Besides chess
20:52<@peter1138>I remember play-by-mail games back in the 80s and 90s :-)
20:52<@peter1138>Super high latency...
20:53<@peter1138>And yes, that was sending a floppy disk in the post, not email :-)
20:53*Elon_Satoshi wonders if play-by-mail games are cross compatible with IP over avian carrier
21:02*Elon_Satoshi surrounds Highland Hills with so many trees they'll never see the horizon again
21:04<Elon_Satoshi>wow they love me now
21:09<Elon_Satoshi>Is OpenTT educational at all?
21:25<@peter1138>Programming it certainly is.
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22:00<Eddi|zuHause>people have said they used it in education
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>one would imagine turn-based games, like, say magic, would be good for high latency. but the modern online versions of those are probably still coded to kick you if you didn't respond in X seconds
22:06<supermop_Home>tho kgs its hard to find matches for untimed games
22:06<Elon_Satoshi>What parts of OpenTTD have to be live?
22:07<Eddi|zuHause>Elon_Satoshi: if you place a rail tile, every client in your game must place that rail tile in the exact same tick
22:08<Eddi|zuHause>Elon_Satoshi: so if you click on a tile to build, first this build attempt is sent to the server, the server verifies it, and sends it out to all clients with a tick number when it should happen
22:08<Eddi|zuHause>Elon_Satoshi: your game must pause until that message arrives
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>the client always lags slightly behind the server for this reason, which is in itself not the problem. high latency will increase this lag, so a) you will have to wait some time for your click to result in an action, and b) the game state on the server might be different from the state that you see, because other people (or town growth, or whatever) might have changed the area you are building in
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>so you might frequently run into situations where your actions fail
22:15<Eddi|zuHause>because something appeared to have been buildable for you, but on the server it failed
22:16<@peter1138>03:08 < Eddi|zuHause> Elon_Satoshi: your game must pause until that message arrives
22:17<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i was maybe being overly simplifying
22:17<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: but my understanding is that the server sends out a heartbeat a la "it is now safe to proceed to tick <X>"
22:19<Elon_Satoshi>If my client locks up such that not even the cursor moves, is that because of server lag or client lag? It seems like a client lag thing though
22:20<@peter1138>The client always lags behind the server because the server is authoritative and must execute all commands first.
22:20<@peter1138>The cursor doesn't move then it's probably trying to catch up with the server.
22:21<Eddi|zuHause>if you have a high latency, then all the server's "proceed now to tick <X>" messages will probably arrive in bulk
22:21<Eddi|zuHause>and the client has to catch up
22:22<Eddi|zuHause>so you will have a stop-and-go game
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22:23<Elon_Satoshi>not even that, "Your computer took too long to join the server"
22:23<Eddi|zuHause>that even the mouse locks up is a result of the very 90s architecture of the game core, where GUI and game logic aren't properly separated
22:23<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you need a specially configured server with higher lag timeouts
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22:27<Eddi|zuHause>Elon_Satoshi: joining a game is particularly problematic, because while you're downloading the map, the server already moves on, so when you finish downloading the map, you will also have to rush ahead to the current state of the server
22:28<Eddi|zuHause>Elon_Satoshi: it helps if the server is paused
22:29<Elon_Satoshi>maybe i'll just play singleplayer
22:29<Eddi|zuHause>that is probably better :)
22:29<Elon_Satoshi>unless you need someone to help test experimental high latency multiplayer
22:29<Elon_Satoshi>I offer 600ms ping time
22:30<Eddi|zuHause>Elon_Satoshi: there once were a bunch of people who played a savegame for 10 years, then passed it around to the next person :)
22:30<Elon_Satoshi>10 years gametime or real time?
22:30<Eddi|zuHause>game time
22:31<Eddi|zuHause>which is like 2 hours of playtime
22:31<Eddi|zuHause>(not counting pause)
22:32<Elon_Satoshi>I think I'm gonna urge hyperrogue to make their network multiplayer latency friendly if they ever decide to add such a feature
22:32<Elon_Satoshi>I wonder how well battle of wesnoth is with latency
22:33<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should stick to turn based games ;p
22:33<Eddi|zuHause>have you tried CIV? :)
22:35<Elon_Satoshi>you mean openciv?
22:35<Elon_Satoshi>or was it freeciv?
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22:35<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, that, or regular iv :p
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22:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
---Logclosed Sun Apr 28 00:00:16 2019