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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-05-14

---Logopened Tue May 14 00:00:39 2019
00:28<Hazzard>hmm
00:28<Hazzard>How does the game choose what train enters a signal?
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01:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjWdj
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01:57<@peter1138>Hazzard, it's pretty much luck, depending vaguely on timing and the power of the train. All things being equal, train ticks are executed sequentially so the train with the lowest index would win.
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02:11<andythenorth>boom boom
02:13<V453000>where's the lolz?
02:14<V453000>andythenorth: so I generated some code
02:14<V453000>guess LOC
02:14<andythenorth>120k
02:14<V453000>430k :D
02:15<V453000>1min compile tho
02:15<V453000> /brag
02:16<V453000>result is that I'm getting 2-3 times the amount of fps compared to previous NUTS :)
02:16<andythenorth>compile time?
02:17<V453000>about 1 min
02:18<V453000>almost precisely
02:18<andythenorth>long time
02:18<V453000>iz k :D
02:18<@peter1138>What's 1 minute compared to 2-3x runtime? :p
02:18*andythenorth feeds children breakfast
02:18<V453000>exactly :)
02:19<andythenorth>V453000: if we just did less BAD FEATURES
02:19<andythenorth>runtime and compile time would both be good :P
02:19<andythenorth>problem is between keyboard and chair
02:19<V453000>:D yes
02:20<andythenorth>ok so 8/8 trains, no features
02:20<andythenorth>99 of them
02:20<andythenorth>job done
02:20<V453000>I've invented stupid feature set, I admit. But now I have optimized it to the max without sacrificing much functionality. I'd be extremely interested in how much could a cached vehicle drawing make a difference.
02:26<andythenorth>V453000: do you still have just one type of wagon?
02:26<andythenorth>or am I wrong?
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02:35<nakki>hey, i've been hosting a server for me and my friends to dick around on, and i find it frustrating that the dedicated server console output has no timestamps
02:36<nakki>should be fairly simple to implement i guess, even though i've only used C very little in the past
02:36<nakki>would that be a good pull request?
02:38<Eddi|zuHause>i once made a timestamp program: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppvzomh9l
02:38<Eddi|zuHause>just pipe it through that
02:39<nakki>huh, i guess that would work yeah
02:39<nakki>thanks
02:40<@peter1138>It would probably also make a good PR :p
02:41<@peter1138>Bah, hardboiling some eggs and one has asploded :(
02:41<nakki>yeah my use case for it is mostly for pointing and laughing in group chats whenever someone gets the transporting cravings at 3am
02:43<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: for some reason Zak MacKracken just appeared in my head
02:55<V453000>andythenorth: yeah, just universal wagons
02:56<V453000>there's a parameter to enable extra 3 sub-tiers but I don't think anybody uses those
02:56<V453000>you have 1000 wagons yet?
02:57<andythenorth>working on it
02:57<@peter1138>Hmm, with 7591 applied, it shows that GS/AI scripts use hardly any memory, and therefore the whole counting it thing was pretty pointless ;p
02:57<andythenorth>running out of names
03:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7591: Fix #7590: decrement allocated_size in ScriptAllocator::Free() https://git.io/fjWF7
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03:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on issue #7311: Wrong determination of personal directory https://git.io/fjWbO
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03:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe updated pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command https://git.io/fhNZl
03:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #7339: Fix #7311: External configuration file does not change directories https://git.io/fjWbX
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04:28<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Hazzard, it's pretty much luck, depending vaguely on timing and the power of the train. All things being equal, train ticks are executed sequentially so the train with the lowest index would win. <-- since the train stopping point is now closer to the signal, i think power is less important now, as any bit of nonzero speed now puts it over the edge?
04:38<@peter1138>Probably, yes.
04:38<@peter1138>I haven't tested it though.
04:55<Hazzard>Thanks Eddi|zuHause
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06:13<@peter1138>Hmm, not quite lunch time yet :/
06:15<andythenorth>nearly
06:15<andythenorth>but not
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>has that ever stopped anyone?
06:17<andythenorth>nope
06:19<@peter1138>It stops me.
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>wait, the RV path cache breaks dynamic assignment of platforms?
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>that seems... undesirable
06:21<@peter1138>Depends!
06:21<@peter1138>If it's really busy, you don't notice because the penalties are about the same.
06:21<@peter1138>If it's empty, same.
06:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge merged pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjngD
06:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge closed issue #7511: Text rendering error under CJK system locale https://git.io/fjmgB
06:22<@peter1138>The solution is to just not cache the last few junctions, which is fine as if there are not many left it won't be a big performance hit anyway.
06:22<@peter1138>It's not "broken" as such, it's just cached the path already with the penalties as they were at the time.
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that was what i thought..
06:23<@peter1138>I'll make a PR tonight. Maybe. If I remember.
06:23<@peter1138>Cinema then pub, so may not.
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: the problem with that is that all the caches from a similar time will have the same penalty, and thus defeats the distribution...
06:24<@peter1138>Well yes, I know.
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>and "not empty, but not super busy" should be the default operating parameters
06:26<@peter1138>I don't know what you're getting at. I've explained the solution which solves it.
06:27<@peter1138>You can of course say that any caching is bad for penalties, and you are right, but then its a trade-off between performance and... accuracy.
06:29<Eddi|zuHause>so... "skip cache if distance < 10 tiles"?
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>(where "10" might be a setting)
06:30<@peter1138>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7380/commits/62e7d7d76e2426fe13925af45ced6ab77fb3cb38
06:30<@peter1138>^ Same sort of thing as that.
06:31<@peter1138>Of course, ships don't have these dynamic penalties currently anyway.
06:33<@peter1138>Added difference for road vehicles is we count junctions, not tiles.
06:33<@peter1138>That could therefore cover a huge distance.
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if that's a good idea, because complicated road stations might have lots of junctions
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>so you could be halfway through that station before the cache skipping applies
06:35<@peter1138>I'm aware, but per-tile information is not provided at that point.
06:35<@peter1138>I didn't do it per-junction out of choice.
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>with "distance" i mean "manhattan(current location, destination)"
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>or something like that
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>the cap could be set to station spread or something
06:38<@peter1138>Manhattan distance is not exactly relevant either.
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>it provides a "good enough" estimate for bailing out?
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>[[citation needed]]
06:52<@peter1138>One person's "good enough" is another person's "total broken, unplayable!"
06:53<@peter1138>One person's "complete" is another person's "unmaintained, it's dead!" (Yeah, andythenorth)
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>just another random wrench in your thoughts: this caching would also thwart any load balancing of traffic over multiple lanes of a one-way road
07:02<@peter1138>It doesn't.
07:03<@peter1138>That doesn't even happen :p
07:04<@peter1138>And we could likely get away with adding yet another advanced setting, but we tend to avoid them these days.
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07:09<@peter1138>And none of this stuff is in a release yet.
07:09<@peter1138>Nobody exists JGRPP to be a stable release, do they?
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>people have wrong and unfulfillable expectations all the time :p
07:18<@peter1138>s/exists/expects/ ...
07:33<@peter1138>Is it lunch yet?
07:45<@LordAro>has been for 45 minutes
07:46<@peter1138>Hmm, should I have some Quavers?
07:46<@peter1138>This bag has been in my drawer so long its gone past its best before :p
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07:55<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure what a quaver is, but "best before" dates are usually better ignored
07:55<@peter1138>I do.
07:56<@peter1138>It's a processed snack food, so probably best ignored in the first place.
07:56<@peter1138>http://strangechips.blogspot.com/2013/01/walkers-quavers.html
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>different category of problem :p
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't quite pass for "lunch"?
07:58<@peter1138>I had a salad (again) with a(n exploded) hard-boiled egg to start with.
08:09<@peter1138>And a pair. And a Nature Valley crunchy bar. I think that's sufficient.
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08:10<@peter1138>No.
08:10<@peter1138>A pear. Not a pair.
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08:27<andythenorth>lunch
08:28<Samu>hi
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09:12<supermop_work>peter1138: what was the UK chip that came unsalted with its own salt thing inside the bag?
09:13<andythenorth>salt-n-shake
09:13<@peter1138>Salt n shake
09:13<@peter1138>Damn it.
09:14<@peter1138>RIP Smiths Crisps :/
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09:20<supermop_work>indeed that was it
09:21<supermop_work>found those fascinating back then
09:21<@peter1138>Bit of a novelty that wore off quicklky.
09:32<FLHerne>My mum always used to get those and then force us to throw the salt packet away :-/
09:32<FLHerne>Unsalted crisps aren't great
09:35<@peter1138>Yeah, cos clearly the salt is the worst part of a packet of crisps... o_O
09:37<andythenorth>salt-n-shake was novelty crap :)
09:38<andythenorth>but it did encourage me and my brother to start adding more salt to 'normal' crisps
09:38<@peter1138>Haha
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10:43<nielsm>https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190514-00/?p=102493 neat
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10:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame. https://git.io/fjlJD
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10:56<@peter1138>nielsm, now that frees are counted properly it seems very unlikely from the figures that any script is actually using massive amounts of memory :p
10:57<nielsm>maybe :)
10:57<@peter1138>Ah well.
11:12<@LordAro>heh
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13:16<andythenorth>yo
13:18<Arveen>yo sir
13:34*andythenorth hoppers
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13:45<Wolf01>o/
13:46<Hazzard>\o
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13:55<andythenorth>quak
13:56<frosch123>lo
14:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened issue #7592: Road vehicles don't balance between multiple loading bays https://git.io/fjlL0
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14:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7591: Fix #7590: decrement allocated_size in ScriptAllocator::Free() https://git.io/fjlLX
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14:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7591: Fix #7590: decrement allocated_size in ScriptAllocator::Free() https://git.io/fjlta
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15:06<andythenorth>I can hear cricket
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15:12<Eddi|zuHause>the sport or the insect?
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15:30<V453000>!
15:30<V453000>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puupdzhpm
15:30<V453000>got musa error
15:30<V453000>what do? :(
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15:33<V453000>if I'm reading it right, server refused me
15:34<+glx>maybe server has issues
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15:39<V453000>well shit ._.
15:42<frosch123>hey, i found musad.log
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>if you find mossad.log, i'd maybe check some things
15:43<@LordAro>and maybe hide
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15:44<V453000>frosch123: what does that mean? :D
15:44<V453000>d for destruction?
15:44<+glx>d for daemon
15:45<+glx>musad is the musa server
15:45<V453000>ooh
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15:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #7475: Fix #6618: Viewport vehicle draw flickering https://git.io/fjL6X
15:57<andythenorth>hmm
15:58<andythenorth>how many types of tanker should there be?
15:58<V453000>1
15:58<V453000>REKT
15:58<V453000>up to you? :)
15:59<andythenorth>got tanker, edibles tanker (milk and crap), cryo tanker (oxygen, chlorine)
15:59<andythenorth>considering chemicals tanker (acid and crap)
15:59<andythenorth>or just rename cryo tanker to chemicals tanker :P
15:59<andythenorth>dunno
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16:01<andythenorth>not sure how lolzy the sprite appearance would be for a 4th type
16:01<andythenorth>running out of options
16:02<frosch123>apparently musad is still running, but it closed the port
16:02<+glx>not nice of it
16:02<Samu__>wow australia will win eurovision
16:02<Samu__>great performance
16:04<frosch123>V453000: try again?
16:05<V453000>sec :) compiling a gain, made a feature meanwhile :D
16:05<frosch123>:p
16:06<V453000>it's uploading! :)
16:06<V453000>thanks frosch123 :) yet again
16:07<frosch123>yay, successfuly reverse engineered ottd
16:07<V453000>and it's there
16:08<V453000>yay just 392k LOC
16:08<V453000>dropped under 400
16:08<V453000>:D
16:11<andythenorth>winner
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16:21<Samu__>Round 19 finally starts
16:21<Samu__>I already regret plane speed factor of 1/1
16:22<Samu__>will never do this again
16:27<Samu__>chopper beating terron
16:27<Samu__>this is unconceivable
16:27<Samu__>why does plane speed factor setting even exists, I woner
16:27<Samu__>wonder
16:32<+glx>to slow them down
16:42<andythenorth>Horse 2 will never be done ;)
16:42<andythenorth>it's gone to the same place DBSetXL went
16:42<andythenorth>endless refinement
16:44<frosch123>what about squid 4?
16:45<andythenorth>hmm
16:45<andythenorth>good q
16:46<andythenorth>squid 99
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16:51<andythenorth>can I do anything to fix devzone jenkins for my grfs?
16:51<andythenorth>I was offered SSH once, but that's a...bad idea
16:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly https://git.io/fjlmw
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>what was wrong with that one?
17:02<andythenorth>just time expired I guess
17:07<frosch123>andythenorth: devzone is too old
17:07<frosch123>there is no python3-chameleon package
17:07<andythenorth>orly?
17:07<andythenorth>https://chameleon.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
17:08<andythenorth>is the ports tree old?
17:08<frosch123>it runs old-old-stable, soon old-old-old-stable
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't devzone near end of life?
17:09<frosch123>most stuff seems to be end of life
17:10<andythenorth>the future was github + azure pipelines
17:10<andythenorth>but like reliable nuclear fusion
17:10<andythenorth>the future never quite arrives
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose there is no upgrade path you could run (in a backup) that would keep all the config files?
17:17<andythenorth>one approach is to have the project provide the deps
17:17<andythenorth>but that's a lot of maintenance and tends to flap due to upstream crap
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17:40<@peter1138>derp
17:40<@peter1138>1137 carolies, so close :/
17:40<@peter1138>cba to cook
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18:21<Samu__>ohh... rythorn airline ai beats nonocab
18:22<Samu__>no more 1/1 plane speed
18:22<Samu__>I also shouldn't consider trying larger maps
18:23<Samu__>what's the max you'd test the AIs on?
18:23<Samu__>im currently testing 1024x1024
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18:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7480: Fix #6666: brackets in arabic strings https://git.io/fjlO4
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19:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] dorobouNeko updated pull request #7573: Fix #7561: Remove assumption between power and cost https://git.io/fjnyI
19:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] dorobouNeko commented on pull request #7573: Fix #7561: Remove assumption between power and cost https://git.io/fjl3e
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---Logclosed Wed May 15 00:00:40 2019