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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-05-17

---Logopened Fri May 17 00:00:43 2019
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02:12<andythenorth>moin
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02:19<V453000>andythenorth: could you please show me how the magical syncing of release dates is coded? <3
02:19<andythenorth>yes!
02:19<andythenorth>V453000: have you read the OpenTTD pull request?
02:20<V453000>ish
02:20<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7147
02:20<V453000>I've seen it but I guess I haven't read it properly enough :)
02:20<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it's really simple, same date=synchronized, different date (even by 1 day) = separate
02:20<V453000>ah yes because it was long :D
02:21<V453000>oh
02:21<V453000>well that's super nice :D
02:21<andythenorth>yes it's super easy
02:21<V453000>I'm assuming I don't even need new NML for that?
02:21<andythenorth>o
02:21<andythenorth>no
02:21<andythenorth>the only complicated part for me was making Horse code automate it
02:21<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the game later rounds to the nearest month (after applying randomness)
02:21<andythenorth>so I never have to think about
02:21<andythenorth>it
02:21<V453000>awesome :D
02:22<andythenorth>you don't want to be setting dates manually if you can avoid it :P
02:22<V453000>the only reason NUTS doesn't work with this is because I have made the mandatory wagons come 3 years earlier than their engines :D
02:22<andythenorth>is that to ensure they're always available when engines arrive?
02:22<V453000>well I only set years andy :) no days or months
02:22<V453000>yes
02:22<V453000>so I'll just make them the same :)
02:23<Eddi|zuHause>if you don't have two engines coming out in the same year
02:25<V453000>Probably not
02:25<V453000>must check though
02:31<andythenorth>V453000: I was only setting years also
02:31<andythenorth>but I don't always want 40 vehicles introduced at the same time :P
02:33<andythenorth>also
02:33<andythenorth>everything in Horse is in 'generations'
02:33*andythenorth waiting for the game to have 'eras' or tech tree
02:33<andythenorth>so that daylength requests finally die
02:34<andythenorth>and so that GS can finally control vehciles
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02:36<V453000>:D
02:36<V453000>yeah I actually planned to add a "introduction date multiplier" to a new train set
02:36<V453000>could still add that to nuts
02:37<V453000>basically daylength for vehicles
02:38<andythenorth>I was going to do that in Horse
02:38<andythenorth>but the strong opinion here was 'that is wrong'
02:39<andythenorth>V453000: shall we agree a schema for eras? :P
02:40<nielsm>morn
02:43<V453000>why is it so wrong?
02:44<V453000>if someone wants a short game they can still get all engines
02:44<V453000>also on a bigger map years fly by faster
02:44<V453000>and in multiplayer game is rarely paused so you get through stuff quicker
02:44<V453000>esp with abstract vehicles it's irrelevant what year it is
02:44<andythenorth>ok so what's NUTS first and last vehicle dates?
02:45<andythenorth>and how many years between generations?
02:49<V453000>well the total first is like 1600, but really 1900-2100
02:50<V453000>a generation is 10 years at the start, and it gets longer later on, up to about 20 years per generation
02:50<andythenorth>pretty fast :)
02:51<andythenorth>Horse is 1860-2020 intro dates
02:51<andythenorth>about 30 years between generations
02:52<andythenorth>so parameter would be (1) multiplier 1/16...16 or (2) set length of generation in years?
02:52<V453000>yeah it's quite quick, but it's about 2.5 hours of playing
02:52<V453000>that's not so little
02:52<V453000>yeah something like that
02:52<V453000>I'm not sure how much calculation I can do, perhaps even min, max year
02:53<andythenorth>send me a memo if you do it
02:53<V453000>arr
02:53<V453000>with flowers and shit
02:53<andythenorth>I think it needs explored
02:53<nielsm>starting year + game length?
02:54<andythenorth>shall we make an OpenTTD fork and have OpenTTD do it?
02:54<V453000>andythenorth: no
02:54<V453000>(:
02:54<Eddi|zuHause>this idea is probably the same category as driving trains backwards
02:54<V453000>it's just that I do realize that for example competitive servers only play for 2 hours while other multiplayer people play for 2 months
02:55<andythenorth>ideal for newgrf Eddi|zuHause ? :)
02:55<andythenorth>backwards trains :P
02:55*andythenorth hasn't even tried yet
02:56<nielsm>make a "configuration" newgrf whose only purpose is to host a set of settings which other grfs can then read
02:56<V453000>yay because newgrf dependencies are so much fun :P
03:04<andythenorth>GarryG has gone big :) https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1221971#p1221971
03:12<V453000>I should probably put more effort into setting up his stations
03:12<V453000>I'm always massively repulsed by the amount of grfs
03:16<andythenorth>I just like seeing the sprites
03:25<andythenorth>so moar wagon types in Horse?
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04:04<@peter1138>morning
04:04<andythenorth>hi
04:07<@peter1138>Let's just argue about XYZ coordinates for a bit.
04:08<andythenorth>I considered introducing how Flash does it
04:08<andythenorth>just for lolz
04:08<andythenorth>then I did something more interesting
04:09<nielsm>it's a really dumb thing to argue about and anyone having actual beadth of experience would know major products cover all possible combinations of axis orders and directions
04:10<andythenorth>you only have to look at the nick
04:10<andythenorth>to know that it's a dumb argument :D
04:10*andythenorth badly behave
04:10<andythenorth>back to trains
04:11<Arveen>🍆
04:12<@peter1138>Aubergine? I love aubergine.
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04:43<@peter1138>°Ω°
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05:07<V453000>that's a great smiley peter1138
05:26*Artea on The Offspring - Staring At The Sun
05:26<Artea>good morning
05:29<Artea>fucking hell
05:29<Artea>3 days I lose in MultiRPG
05:29<Artea>fucking hell
05:29<Artea>GRRRR
05:29<Artea>not even can kill a Mutant :S
05:30<Artea>oh
05:30<Artea>its because I'm in a Tournament :)
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05:49<@peter1138>Unreal Tournament?
05:49<@peter1138>Hmm, why should we keep adding currencies?
05:50<Artea>not UT, peter
05:50<Artea>IRC Tournament
05:51<Artea>[10:30:54] <%multirpg> Artea has won the Low-Level Quick Tournament! As a reward for his battling skills, 0 days, 21:02:56 is removed from his time and he gets 100 gold! Artea reaches level 50 in 1 day, 23:34:57.
05:51<Artea>http://multirpg.net
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06:41<@LordAro>peter1138: because people keep asking for them?
06:42<@LordAro>though i do think 3 uncommonly used currencies are a bit unnecessary
06:42<andythenorth>newgrf currency?
06:43*andythenorth back to work
06:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7596: Add:Three currencies: NTD, CNY, HKD https://git.io/fj8LL
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07:37<FLHerne>Um
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07:40<FLHerne>Given that currencies are client-side only, why not just have a "custom currency" setting?
07:41<FLHerne>Multiplier, prefix, suffix
07:41<@peter1138>Why not!
07:43<@peter1138>I do think we should perhaps allow real numbers for currency display.
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07:50<@peter1138>Is it lunch time?
07:53<Samu>hi
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>lunch? i guess my rhythm is completely off from yesterday...
08:12<Samu>patch of exile has patched
08:13<@peter1138>What happened yesterday?
08:13<@peter1138>Nothing at all, it seems.
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08:45<supermop_work>hi
09:02<andythenorth>it was lunchtime
09:02<andythenorth>already
09:03<@peter1138>It was, I already ate.
09:04<@peter1138>And then I ate a bit more.
09:05<andythenorth>I will eat some more
09:05<andythenorth>very wise
09:06<@peter1138>I will eat some more tonight. I will call it dinner.
09:06<@peter1138>I had a massive salad though.
09:11<andythenorth>should I start a salad farm?
09:11<andythenorth>https://lettusgrow.com/
09:13<@peter1138>fruit & veg newgrf?
09:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #7490: Add: Press ctrl to build diagonal rivers in scenario editor. https://git.io/fjtrz
09:34<@peter1138>:-)
09:34<@peter1138>I can't remember what I was waiting on for that one. Probably an icon.
09:48*andythenorth can icon
09:48*andythenorth would rather make Horse
09:48<andythenorth>oof
09:48<andythenorth>teflon
09:48<andythenorth>maybe a fruit & veg newgrf, but irl
09:48<andythenorth>with electric trucks and stuff
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11:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed issue #7006: Hardware mouse cursor https://git.io/fhqLt
11:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hezkore commented on issue #7006: Hardware mouse cursor https://git.io/fj8Ou
11:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd commented on issue #7006: Hardware mouse cursor https://git.io/fj8Oz
11:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7596: Add:Three currencies: NTD, CNY, HKD https://git.io/fj8OK
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11:49<@peter1138>Well..
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11:50<andythenorth>I know, right?
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12:32<andythenorth>well maybe a food hopper?
12:32<andythenorth>'grain hopper' is too specific
12:32*andythenorth does unprompted questions
12:40<@peter1138>64 cargo types, all from the fresh food section...
12:41<@peter1138>It's Friday, should I have a beer?
12:41<nakki>go for it
12:41<nakki>I had a couple
12:44<andythenorth>you should
12:44<andythenorth>I might
12:46<Samu_>round 22 complete!
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12:56<Samu_>round 23 started
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12:58<Wolf01>o/
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13:03<Wolf01>So, which 2 classes should I play for the new season in diablo 3?
13:04<Wolf01>I also want to play destiny 2, and friends are pushing for men of war... not enough weekend
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13:35<@peter1138>Oh god, I'd forgotten I have Destiny 2. All these games on weird platforms that aren't Steam...
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>i wish they'd strike some cooperation that you can separate the shop from the library or something
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>so you don't need 5 different launchers just because they have 5 competing game stores
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13:58<andythenorth>which cargos are food and pourable?
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>candy
14:02<andythenorth>chips?
14:03<andythenorth>cheese?
14:07<nakki>Wolf01, i'm surprised anyone is still playing men of war
14:07<nakki>haven't really seen anyone speak of the series since the first assault squad game came out
14:07<nakki>monk and crusader are always fun in d3
14:09<andythenorth>there are other games? :o
14:09<andythenorth>besides 2048 and World of Tanks Blitz?
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>2048? that was like 5 years ago?
14:10<andythenorth>is it over?
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't touched since i "won" it
14:24<nakki>i got escape from tarkov recently, a lot of fun with a good coop partner
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>anybody figured out how lutris works? i'm trying to install https://lutris.net/games/epic-games-store/ but no avail
14:42<andythenorth>what do I call a 'grain hopper' that isn't too specific?
14:44<Wolf01>nakki: indeed, I meant AS2 :P
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>so... the install script seems to run, and when i start it, i get to a login page that seems to miss some symbols
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>and when i click skip login, it goes into an endless loop of "wine: Unhandled page fault on read access to 0x00000034 at address 0x291d640 (thread 0172), starting debugger..."
14:45<Wolf01>But I really liked the single player campaign of MoW
14:46<nakki>i remember playing the original men of war's campaign in coop yeah, and then assault squad
14:46<nakki>don't really know what happened to the series since that
14:47<Wolf01><Eddi|zuHause> so you don't need 5 different launchers just because they have 5 competing game stores <- please explain this to Randy Pitchford
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>who?
14:48<Wolf01>Gearbox CEO
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>who?
14:50<Wolf01>https://www.pcgamer.com/gearbox-boss-bitch-and-moan-if-you-want-but-the-epic-store-is-best-for-borderlands-3/
14:52<V453000>it's sad but I guess I'll probably buy borderlands 3 when it comes out anyway, looking forward to it a bit too much
14:53<Wolf01>I'll wait for steam
14:54<Wolf01>I already have steam, uplay (some steam games forced me to use it), origin, gog galaxy, blizzard, desura (now unusable)
14:55<nakki>didn't desura go under like years ago
14:55<Wolf01>Yep
14:55<Wolf01>I was able to move some of the games to steam by contacting the devs
14:56<Wolf01>Other ones were just drm free, so I downloaded the installers
14:57<Wolf01>And the same happens with netflix, disney, sky, prime video...
14:57<nakki>yep
14:58<Wolf01>I just want one library with the client I prefer
14:59<nakki>heh
14:59<nakki>not gonna happen
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: the same also happens with communication tools, etc.
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>all this needlessly vertical slicing
15:12<andythenorth>there's (of course) an xkcd about it
15:13<Wolf01>And firefox disabled again my extensions
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>maybe don't use a 2 years outdated version?
15:13<andythenorth>people still use firefox? :o
15:14<nakki>i use firefox for the nice cross-device syncing and vertical tree-style tabs
15:15*andythenorth does actually use FF, and Chrome, and Safari
15:15<Wolf01>Do you still use safari?
15:16<+glx>the only issue I have with epic is the introduction of store exclusivities
15:17<+glx>well was already the case with origin, but only for EA games
15:17<Wolf01>The only issue I have with Epic is Tencent
15:17<@peter1138>I only use Epic for the freebies.
15:17<andythenorth>Wolf01: I have one browser for browsing, one for authed work systems, and one for web dev
15:18<+glx>same here, but I bought the last walking dead on epic as it's no longer available on steam
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>still can't get it to run
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15:57*andythenorth makes pixels
16:10<@peter1138>This might be the wrong time of year, but... I am eating Christmas pudding.
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16:14<Wolf01>Mmmh, ginger ale
16:17<nakki>i'm just drinking some berry tea for my throat
16:17<nakki>i caught a flu a day or two after may day
16:17<nakki>and then another this monday
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17:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] iigmir updated pull request #7596: Add:Three currencies: NTD, CNY, HKD https://git.io/fjlp7
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it's time we implemented newgrf currencies?
17:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] iigmir commented on pull request #7596: Add:Three currencies: NTD, CNY, HKD https://git.io/fj8cc
17:24<frosch123>or pure user defined currencies
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>we have those
17:25<frosch123>all via currencies.cfg
17:25<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: there is one "custom". but i mean "add/edit/remove currency"
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>(and i believe all users which have custom currency in their cfg will be invalidated if we add currencies)
17:26<frosch123>no, that was fixed somewhen
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>that must have been less than 5 years ago :p
17:26<frosch123>i would think about 5 years ago :p
17:28<frosch123>anyway, we once had a no-new-currencies-policy, but people were weak
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>i'm thinking the currency newgrf spec is way older than that
17:31<frosch123>was there ever a newgrf using it?
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>dunno
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't think we ever actually supported it either
17:31<frosch123>i thought someone adde dit
17:32<frosch123>but it's quite limited
17:32<frosch123>only 4 byte prefixes/postfixes
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>it would need to be static newgrf, and nobody uses those
17:32<frosch123>so, not even enough space for a unicode char with the þ prefix
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>i guess it's one of those TTDP hacks that just got formalized
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>"we don't have a clue how to insert proper strings in this piece of code, and 4 bytes ought to be enough for anyone"
17:36<andythenorth>how may currencies don't we have? :P
17:36<Heiki>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_currencies quite a lot still missing
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>"The United Nations currently recognizes 180 currencies that are used in 195 countries across the world."
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>and we have like what, 30?
17:52<andythenorth>93% Horse
17:54<frosch123>7% cat
17:55<andythenorth>yes
17:55<andythenorth>funny how the last 10% never gets done
17:56<@peter1138>Hmm, Destiny 2 is pretty.
17:59<andythenorth>bed or pixels?
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18:06<Supercheese>Bixels
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18:07<andythenorth>chemicals tankers?
18:07<andythenorth>food hoppers?
18:08*andythenorth very trains
18:08<Supercheese>air trains
18:08<Supercheese>zellepin trains
18:09<Supercheese>ultimate intermodal
18:16<andythenorth>ultimate
18:16<andythenorth>also bed
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18:34<@peter1138>Alright.
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>surely it's Bexels
18:56<Supercheese>nah, sounds too much like a Dutch island
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>don't they have a million of those?
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21:50<SimYouLater>Can someone explain something to me?
21:50<SimYouLater>=======StarRaid's NML patcher!======= Attempting to backup IH_AddonSet.nml Successfully backed up to "backups/IH_AddonSet-01-47-57-2019-05-18.nml"! Output : IH_AddonSet.nml File : IH_AddonSet.pnml Backup : 1 Verbose : 1 Opening "IH_AddonSet.pnml" as the main header. Patched src/header.pnml with no errors. Patched src/cyclops.pnml with no errors. Patched src/electra.pnml with no errors. Patched src/quicksilver.pnml with no errors. [K
21:50<SimYouLater>Stupid IRC. Hold on.
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21:54<SimYouLater>How do I join using HexChat?
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21:58<SimYouLater>Okay, finally got an IRC client.
21:59<SimYouLater>Can someone explain why pybuild.bat is spitting up a weird error?
21:59<SimYouLater>=======StarRaid's NML patcher!=======
21:59<SimYouLater>Attempting to backup IH_AddonSet.nml
21:59<SimYouLater>Successfully backed up to "backups/IH_AddonSet-01-47-57-2019-05-18.nml"!
21:59<SimYouLater>Output : IH_AddonSet.nml
21:59<SimYouLater>File : IH_AddonSet.pnml
21:59<SimYouLater>Backup : 1
21:59<SimYouLater>Verbose : 1
21:59<SimYouLater>Opening "IH_AddonSet.pnml" as the main header.
21:59<SimYouLater>Patched src/header.pnml with no errors.
21:59<SimYouLater>Patched src/cyclops.pnml with no errors.
21:59<SimYouLater>Patched src/electra.pnml with no errors.
21:59<SimYouLater>Patched src/quicksilver.pnml with no errors.
21:59<SimYouLater>[Knmlc ERROR: nmlc: An internal error has occurred:
21:59<SimYouLater>nmlc-version: v6379:afad0c76c40b from 2017-06-19
21:59<SimYouLater>Error: (UnicodeEncodeError) "'charmap' codec can't encode character '\u202c' in position 19: character maps to <undefined>".
21:59<SimYouLater>Command: ['nmlc', 'IH_AddonSet.nml', '-o', 'IH_AddonSet.grf']
21:59<SimYouLater>Location: File "c:\python\32-bit\3.3\lib\encodings\cp437.py", line 19, in encode
21:59<+glx>use a pastebin
22:00<SimYouLater>https://pastebin.com/0MV2SJs2
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22:02<SimYouLater>Flygon? Suprcheese? Got any advice about this error with my NewGRF compiling?
22:02<SimYouLater>https://pastebin.com/0MV2SJs2
22:03<Suprcheese>might be like a UTF-encoding thing
22:03<SimYouLater>It was working fine until I tried to complie something just a few minutes ago.
22:03<SimYouLater>*compile
22:04<SimYouLater>UTF-encoding... So how do I fix it?
22:05<SimYouLater>I can convert encoding using Notepad++, right?
22:07<SimYouLater>Is everyone busy, or should I just wait for a response?
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22:10<SimYouLater>All I know is that I can change encoding using Notepad++. Other than that, I have no clue what's wrong.
22:12<Supercheese>Well try flipping it around I guess
22:12<Supercheese>UTF-8 with or without BOM
22:12<Supercheese>not sure which is better
22:12<+glx>without usually
22:16<SimYouLater>No dice. It doesn't matter what encoding I use, it still gives the same error.
22:18<+glx>hmm \u202c is not a usual character
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22:21<+glx>it's related to bidirectionnal text
22:22<+glx>maybe some RTL language strings in your file
22:22<SimYouLater>Sounds like I have a character that shouldn't be there. How do I find and delete it?
22:23<+glx>it's not a visible character
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22:23<SimYouLater>Then how am I supposed to remove it?
22:25<SimYouLater>RTL language strings doesn't mean anything to me. Please explain.
22:25<+glx>arabic or hebrew for example
22:26<SimYouLater>I definitely didn't use any language besides english.
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22:35<SimYouLater>If the language isn't the issue, how do I fix it?
22:36<+glx>maybe related to https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5419/python-unicode-and-the-windows-console
22:37<SimYouLater>Then I need to update python?
22:40<SimYouLater>Updating python, let's see if this works.
22:44<SimYouLater>Nope.
22:46<+glx>maybe a bug in nml too
22:46<SimYouLater>How do I update nmlc?
22:49<+glx>I don't see any commit related to that in more recent nmlc so updating nmlc won't help
22:50<SimYouLater>Then what do I do?
22:54<SimYouLater>I'm trying to work on the Iron Horse Addon, and this issue is preventing any progress... :(
22:56<+glx>I can't help more, I know nothing about python or nmlc source
22:57<SimYouLater>$#!t.
23:01<SimYouLater>Posted to the tt-forums topic for NML. Hopefully I can see this fixed.
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---Logclosed Sat May 18 00:00:45 2019