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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-05-20

---Logopened Mon May 20 00:00:48 2019
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04:30<@peter1138>Is it lunch yet?
04:30<nakki>it's about lunchtime
04:30<@peter1138>Somewhere...
04:31<nakki>11:31 here, so perfect lunchtime
04:31<nakki>although if i was at work, i would've already gone half an hour ago
04:31<nakki>to avoid the rush
04:40<@peter1138>That still sounds early for lunch.
04:40<nakki>i don't eat breakfast
04:40<nakki>it's a conspiracy by cereal companies to sell more corn flakes
04:41<@peter1138>I had toast, so that's a fail.
04:41<@peter1138>And a piece of fruit.
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05:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed issue #6266: UI Zoom: ugly lists in network windows on double/quad interface sizes with custom fonts https://git.io/fj8Nt
05:33<_dp_>oh, I thought it was fixed long ago...
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07:46<@peter1138>Lunch time?
07:52<@LordAro>yes
07:52<andythenorth>yes
07:52<andythenorth>m+c
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08:18<andythenorth>hi snail_UES_
08:19<snail_UES_>hey andythenorth
08:19<andythenorth>how's French trains going? :)
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09:07<supermop_work>yo
09:11<@peter1138>andythenorth, very well I guess.
09:14<@planetmaker>on rails, wheels powered by electric motors :P
09:29<supermop_work>hi all
09:34*andythenorth wonders about hi-speed railtype
09:34<andythenorth>with curve bonus
09:35<supermop_work>sure
09:35*andythenorth must learn to railtype then
09:35<V453000>what do you need to do?
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09:38<andythenorth>make a railtype
09:38<andythenorth>that uses existing base set sprites
09:38<andythenorth>but goes faster in curves
09:38<@planetmaker>faster?
09:39<V453000>well just set the multiplier :)
09:40<@planetmaker>yeah curve_speed_multiplier
09:40<V453000>yeah that
09:40<@planetmaker>so probably just redefine ELRL with that single property and that's it
09:40<andythenorth>I'll need a label?
09:41<@planetmaker>ah, yes, you want a separate one
09:41<@planetmaker>but identically looking?
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09:41<andythenorth>yes
09:41<andythenorth>also hi both
09:42<andythenorth>seems HSTR https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RailtypeLabels
09:42<@planetmaker>probably... difficult. you will need graphics.
09:42<andythenorth>or maybe I'm supposed to use https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Standardized_Railtype_Scheme
09:42<andythenorth>dunno
09:42<V453000>doesn't the universal railtype newgrf define a new railtype that looks like RAIL ?
09:42<@planetmaker>whatever floats your boat. And set it to compatible to the others which might suit
09:43<@planetmaker>V453000, maybe... dunno :) would make it easy
09:43<V453000>I think NUTS did that at some point as well
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09:45<@planetmaker>might actually work if you simply don't define any of the graphical callbacks
09:45<V453000>yes
09:45<V453000>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p44arwid0
09:45<@planetmaker>so you just gave the whole NewGRF, and only line 14 needs to be changed
09:46<@planetmaker>and 4
09:46<V453000>I think line 14 only influences depots and stations
09:46<@planetmaker>curve_speed_multiplier?
09:46<andythenorth>hurrah
09:46<@planetmaker>you mean 15 @ V :)
09:46<V453000>oh nvm
09:46<V453000>yeah
09:47<V453000>sorry
09:48*V453000 should go
09:48<V453000>laters
09:49<@planetmaker>If a callback is not implemented or fails, graphics from the fallback railtype (picked via the station_graphics property) will be used instead.
09:49<@planetmaker>RAILTYPE_STATION_NORMAL, RAILTYPE_STATION_MONORAIL, RAILTYPE_STATION_MAGLEV
09:49<@planetmaker>so... yes, easy :) Much easier than I thought
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12:53<andythenorth>is the title game now zoomed in for everyone? o_O
12:53<andythenorth>or did I break something?
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12:57<@LordAro>andythenorth: i feel like someone would've said...
12:57<andythenorth>maybe i'm the only one using UI zoom?
12:59<andythenorth>yeah, 2x UI zoom also zooms the title game
12:59<andythenorth>and on 1x ui zoom, the general breakage is....interesting
12:59<andythenorth>I will screenshot when I get home
13:02<@LordAro>very curious
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14:06<andythenorth>so how do I make trains run on my new railtype? :)
14:06<andythenorth>do I have to set the railtype on the train?
14:15<@planetmaker>or set the compatibilities of the railtype accordingly.
14:16<andythenorth>that won't work, afaict :)
14:16<andythenorth>and doesn't in game
14:16<andythenorth>"Provide a list of rail types that trains of this type are powered on."
14:16<andythenorth>so the label is "UNIV" and my train is "ELRL"
14:16<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p44arwid0
14:17<andythenorth>I need to make the train "UNIV" and set it to also be powered on ELRL?
14:17*andythenorth tries it
14:18<andythenorth>hmm, this means all trains need to be UNIV
14:18<juzza1>if you want your train to be ELRL, you need to put UNIV in ELRL's compatible_railtype_list and powered_railtype_list
14:19<andythenorth>but ELRL is defined by base game?
14:19<andythenorth>so I redefine ELRL?
14:19<juzza1>yea
14:19<andythenorth>ok thx
14:25<andythenorth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Railtypes#Railtype_properties
14:25<andythenorth>curve_speed_multiplier 0...65525 ?
14:25<andythenorth>but prop 11 here is a byte https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Railtypes#Curve_Speed_advantage_multiplier_.2811.29
14:25<andythenorth>docs wrong?
14:30<andythenorth>looks like a byte here https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/blob/master/nml/actions/action0properties.py#L1058
14:30*andythenorth will fix docs
14:38<andythenorth>so what's railtypes prop 11 (curve speed multiplier) supposed to do? :)
14:43<V453000>idk what it's supposed to do but, it increases the speed of a curve
14:44<andythenorth>how?
14:44<andythenorth>I can set the value to 0 or 255, and the train goes the same speed round the curve :D
14:44<V453000>Well a curve of specific lengh, say, 3 tiles, has a specific maximum speed that trains can travel through it
14:44<V453000>I think it's something like multiplication but in halfsteps or something
14:45<V453000>there was a table somewhere with example values how much each default railtype has
14:45<andythenorth>is this a valid test case? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9447/railtype_prop_11.png
14:46<V453000>but basically, it was something like rail = 1, mono 2, mglv 3
14:46<V453000>so the rest of the 65523 values are useless
14:46<V453000>ish
14:46<andythenorth>the 65523 is a mistake anyway, I've fixed that
14:46<V453000>hm I don't remember mph
14:46<V453000>but this looks like it's at the curve cap
14:46<andythenorth>so it's 98mph, for any value between 0 and 255 for curve speed
14:46<V453000>well I was just trying to point out that it would be incredibly useful to be able to set lower speeds than RAIL, not just higher
14:46<andythenorth>so the prop is irrelevant?
14:46<andythenorth>or I'm testing wrong?
14:47<V453000>probably testing wrong
14:47<andythenorth>I'm hoping
14:47<V453000>NUTS seems to only use 0 but for railtypes where it doesn't matter
14:48<andythenorth>I suspect it might just not work
14:48<andythenorth>nobody would ever have noticed
14:48*andythenorth reads openttd source
14:49<V453000>The base speeds relevant for the curve_speed_multiplier are:
14:49<V453000>that would mean rail has value 2, monorail 3, maglev 4
14:49<V453000>IF it works
14:50<@planetmaker>iirc it is indeed one of those properties which are... not exactly usefully scaled
14:50<andythenorth>docs suggest otherwise
14:51<andythenorth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Railtypes#Curve_Speed_advantage_multiplier_.2811.29
14:51<andythenorth>"base speed advantage" * (2 + "property 11")
14:51<@planetmaker>100,200,300 for rail/mono/mag would be nicer, no?
14:52<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/train_cmd.cpp#L357
14:52<V453000>well rather 100 150 200 would be representative
14:53<andythenorth>that calculation on L357 isn't what newgrf docs say?
14:53<andythenorth>max_speed += (max_speed / 2) * rti->curve_speed;
14:53<V453000>I can't see it being used inNUTS, but I didn't realy have a use for it since it can't reduce the speed, so it unfortunately does not conclude that I have found out it's broken
14:54<V453000>well it could?
14:54<V453000>if the multiplier for rail is 2 then it's double the base value
14:55<V453000>which I understand as max_speed *2
14:57<V453000>with 1 it would be 1,5 though I guess :)
14:57<V453000>anyway, strange
14:58<andythenorth>trying to figure out L349-350
14:59<V453000>well I tried to set 0 to maglev in NUTS and it did something
14:59<V453000>it looks like it has set it to the same as RAIL has
15:00*andythenorth experiments with 3
15:00<V453000>which does not make sense to me with either the function you pasted or the multiplication that I assumed :D
15:00<andythenorth>nope, fuck all difference with 3 also
15:01<andythenorth>back to drawing pixels?
15:01<V453000>and with 2 I'm getting as much as monorail does
15:03<V453000>yeah 2 is monorail
15:03<V453000>so 3 maglev probably
15:03<V453000>nvm
15:03<V453000>1 is monorail
15:03<V453000>well that does make sense, but max_speed is then the base_speed from docs multiplied by 2
15:04<andythenorth>max_speed is given by L350
15:04<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/train_cmd.cpp#L350
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15:05<andythenorth>dunno
15:05<andythenorth>:)
15:11<V453000>what in the world
15:17<andythenorth>dunno
15:18<andythenorth>V453000: do you get any different curve speeds if you change the prop?
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15:28<andythenorth>I rm-ed all ;)
15:28<andythenorth>much easier
15:30<V453000>yes andy
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15:34<andythenorth>it's a dumb pattern
15:34<andythenorth>I find a bit of spec, then it doesn't work, then I'm sad
15:34<andythenorth>I should just not
15:35<V453000>as I said, value 0 gave me rail behaviour, 1 monorail, 2 maglev
15:35<V453000>so it does something
15:35<V453000>but values like 3+ are only for super fast trains
15:35<andythenorth>I get no change at all
15:35<V453000>paste yer thing
15:36<andythenorth>I've deleted all
15:36<V453000>._.
15:36<andythenorth>but it was just your paste from earlier, with curve speed changed
15:36<V453000>did you use railtype ID 2 or 15?
15:36<V453000>15 was in the paste
15:36<V453000>elrl might need 2, idk
15:36<andythenorth>I used 14 for elrl
15:36<V453000>well actually that sounds nuts specific and untrie
15:36<V453000>idk
15:36<V453000>hm
15:37<V453000>I guess those IDs are just grf-specific
15:37<andythenorth>yeah dunno :)
15:37<andythenorth>this was just an idea I had to add a railtype
15:37<andythenorth>but it's TMWFTLB
15:37<andythenorth>and I need to find out why OpenTTD UI is fucked
15:38<andythenorth>bigger problems
15:38<V453000>:D
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15:45<andythenorth>quak
15:46<frosch123>moo
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16:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened issue #7599: UI zoom appearance problems relative to 1.9.1 https://git.io/fj4IV
16:03<@peter1138>Some of it is deliberate.
16:03<@peter1138>Like the error message window is meant to be wider than taller.
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16:06<frosch123>wasn't the titlescreen zoom added recently?
16:07<andythenorth>yeah I didn't know what's intended and what's not
16:07<andythenorth>so I'm filing all of it, and it can be rejected
16:09<@LordAro>i'm not aware of it being intentional
16:10<@peter1138>Which?
16:14<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7539 no?
16:16<@LordAro>hmm, fair enough
16:16<@LordAro>must have missed that one
16:16<andythenorth>some of it, I'm probably just too old for change :P
16:17<andythenorth>some of it seems to just be eating my screen
16:20<andythenorth>nom nom screen :P
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16:42<Eddi|zuHause>the title game zoom might clash with some mobile setups?
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16:49<@peter1138>Which mobile set ups are you thinking of?
16:50<andythenorth>it's probably fine
16:51<andythenorth>it's just lost some of the niceness in places
16:51<andythenorth>and gained in others
16:51<@peter1138>andythenorth, don't be so all-or-nothing.
16:52<@peter1138>andythenorth, It's clearly a problem in some places.
16:52<@peter1138>Just the error message window is absolutely intentional and doesn't look wrong at all.
16:55<andythenorth>I was trying to equivocate :P
16:55<andythenorth>and not make dramas out of nothing :P
16:55<andythenorth>also...I might get used to it
16:57<@peter1138>https://www.instagram.com/p/BxskSFDHkvF/ < Not a salad!
17:01<andythenorth>looks like TV
17:02<@peter1138>Your TV looks... odd.
17:03<andythenorth>shiny
17:04<andythenorth>hmm
17:04<andythenorth>something is missing from my life
17:04<andythenorth>since 2008 and or so I've been coming here and posting "roadtypes!'
17:05<andythenorth>now I can't :D
17:05<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37964
17:08<andythenorth>WITH!!!!!
17:09<frosch123>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=46689 <- pick something else?
17:10<frosch123>wut, you even updated it in 2017 :p
17:11<andythenorth>so I did :)
17:11<andythenorth>vehicles can set a multiplier to cargo price factor?
17:11<andythenorth>pony
17:12<andythenorth>can't think of much else tbh :)
17:12<frosch123>money related ponies are meh
17:12<andythenorth>it's only because I got obsessed with why cargo aging period doesn't work like I expected
17:12<andythenorth>I agree it's meh
17:13<andythenorth>I put a PR in to fix subtropic generator, but stalebot closed it :D
17:14<frosch123>f somewhat fixed the mapgen, by adding proper previews
17:14<frosch123>and making changing one thing not affect another as well
17:16<andythenorth>o_O
17:17<frosch123>f kept on copying bugs from ottd, but they also fixed some issues :p
17:17<andythenorth>it's nice that we can keep in sync
17:17<andythenorth>we could add pipe transport :P
17:17<andythenorth>that would be a big pony
17:18<frosch123>we should replace airports with catapults
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>when did we last discuss suborbital flight?
17:21<andythenorth>child #1 made a catapult
17:21<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: is that just like a tunnel? wormhole?
17:22<frosch123>food -> wall ?
17:22<andythenorth>more serious than that
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: rocket starts somewhere, leaves the map, reappears elsewhere, lands
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17:22<andythenorth>how about teleporters?
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: severed heads -> rivalling city wall?
17:23<frosch123>modern games have pedestrians
17:23<andythenorth>oof
17:23<andythenorth>doesn't appeal
17:23<frosch123>but usually they are animations independent from game logic
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>in the 90s, civ 1 and 2 had global warming, then they removed it in 4 and 5 (dunno about 3), and now they brought it back in 6.
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17:26<andythenorth>global warming goes in and out of fashion
17:27<andythenorth>it was convenient for hydrocarbon companies to focus on the threat of terrorism :P
17:27<andythenorth>some 'conspiracies' hide in plain sight :)
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>... meanwhile the US government is doing everything in their power to create more terrorism to distract from global warming?
17:29<andythenorth>rattling sabres at Iran keeps the coal mines going
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not even talking about that
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>more like, having flying evaporation machines shooting at wedding ceremonies and retroactively saying "we're sure those were all terrorists"
17:32<andythenorth>I think that can be filed under "don't assume conspiracy when fuckup will suffice"
17:32<andythenorth>on the other hand....
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>it happens too often to be a fuckup
17:32<andythenorth>...creating a policy environment where this is normalised, that's not accidental
17:33<andythenorth>hmm
17:33<andythenorth>I think my biggest pony would be having bundles working again :P
17:33<andythenorth>maybe I need to buy planetmaker a cake
17:37<@planetmaker>can you ssh? then give me a key and I can arrange it such that your current build process can deploy there. *I think*
17:38<andythenorth>I think Azure can run scripts
17:38<andythenorth>is it safe to give Azure ssh?
17:38*andythenorth has NFI :)
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17:47<andythenorth>I will log into Azure this week and have a look how it works
17:47<andythenorth>it's designed to publish artifacts
17:47<andythenorth>but it's a mysterious place
17:50<@planetmaker>I looked... it seems the problem is that bundles is nfs-linked to the build system... and no login user exists (yet)
17:52<andythenorth>it might be a good case for a webhook
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17:55<andythenorth>so that Azure hits a bundles webhook on completion of a job, with the url in the payload to the artifacts
17:55<andythenorth>but I couldn't find any urls for AP artifacts
17:55<andythenorth>nor how long they exist
17:57<andythenorth>oh lolz
17:57<andythenorth>my microsoft account is locked
17:58<andythenorth>this is super
17:58<andythenorth>I violated the ToS somehow
18:00<andythenorth>not going in that rabbit hole now :P
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18:09<Supercheese>Eddi|zuHause : Civ4 definitely had Global Warming
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>are you sure?
18:10<Supercheese>I remember it biting me in the rear on occasion, flooding farmland tiles with rising sea levels
18:10<Supercheese>I think that was the only effect, changing land tiles to sea tiles, but that could be very problematic especially if the land tile had a valuable resource that would be lost
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i'm just too good at getting renewable energy and banning nukes
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>before it ever became a problem
18:11<Supercheese>but nukes are renewable energy! :P
18:11<Supercheese>too much meltdown risk in-game though
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>i was never much of a nuclear power person
18:12<Supercheese>Hydro was superior, especially the Three Gorges Dam wonder
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that
18:12<Supercheese>knock that guy out and power for everything always
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18:13<Supercheese>pretty OP
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i should try civ 4 again...
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>probably get wiped out early
18:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6169: truck got a non-existing cargo https://git.io/fj4tA
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18:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6032: Crash while loading savegame from 0.6 in 1.4 https://git.io/fj4q8
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>... got overrun by barbarians...
19:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #5965: Loading savegame causes a crash. https://git.io/fj4qj
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19:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #5306: Savegames Failing to Load https://git.io/fj4mT
19:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #5305: Savegame not working for me on two computers - but works for others https://git.io/fj4mq
19:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #5232: Assertion error on loading old game https://git.io/fj4mG
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22:39<Corns[m]>Is there a function to check whether a bridge head will be flat or sloped? Given a tileindex and direction
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22:58<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like code that should exist, whether it's a separate function i don't know
---Logclosed Tue May 21 00:00:49 2019