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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-05-21

---Logopened Tue May 21 00:00:49 2019
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02:42<andythenorth>moin
02:48*andythenorth in Azure
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06:15<andythenorth>planetmaker: so Azure Pipelines has release & deploy tools
06:16<andythenorth>I can sftp to a location, and there appears to be a way to store creds
06:16<andythenorth>or I can ssh something (but sftp seems safer)
06:16*andythenorth might make a diagram :P
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09:08<Eddi|zuHause>should i give civ4 another try? maybe i should tick off this button for extreme barbarians, but that just means i'll get overrun by the first AI to declare war
09:09<@peter1138>Maybe I should play Civ 5 some day.
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>also what i always found wrong about civ4's longer game options is that it makes it hard to react by building more units, because they take longer to build in relation to how far the opponents can travel
09:10<@peter1138>I guess you need to preemptively build them?
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i'm traditionally poor at that part :p
09:13<@LordAro>i never played much civ4
09:13<@LordAro>2,3 & 5 were my jam
09:13<@peter1138>From where I heard, 4 was pretty poor.
09:14<@peter1138>I played mostly the first one, and a bit of 2.
09:14<@peter1138>Not much of 3 or 5.
09:16*andythenorth never played Civ
09:16*andythenorth hoping for Warcraft 1 revival
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09:36<supermop_work>yo
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09:39<supermop_work>andythenorth: nrt hog?
09:43<andythenorth>I want to finish a Horse 2.0.0 beta
09:43<andythenorth>then Hog
09:44<andythenorth>I have 17 steam engines to draw, then I can ship 2.0.0 beta
09:44<andythenorth>I have drawn 292 trains already, so 17 should be nothing :P
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09:50<@planetmaker>ship ships? :P
09:51<andythenorth>:P
10:10<supermop_work>how many times are you planning on re-drawing each of those?
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10:12<andythenorth>the steam trains?
10:12<andythenorth>probably draw them twice
10:12<andythenorth>once for JFDI
10:12<andythenorth>and then once again after I've learnt to draw trains
10:28<@peter1138>Should I buy some Lego games? (Humble Bundle)
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10:34<andythenorth>do you like Lego, and games? o_O
10:34<@peter1138>Not really.
10:34<@peter1138>(Kinda)
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10:53<supermop_work>has anyone used mop RVs lately?
10:53<supermop_work>what do they need? other than fewer RVs?
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11:04<Artea>andythenorth hoping for Warcraft 1 revival
11:04<Artea>GoG
11:04<Artea>is there
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11:04<Artea>Warcraft 1 & 2
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11:04<Artea>also Diablo 1
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11:18<@peter1138>They're not exactly revivals though.
11:23<andythenorth>I wanted the original 'my liege' WC 1
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>i think i had WC1, but never played it
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11:54<Samu>round 24 complete
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12:19<Samu>23 rounds to go
12:19<Samu>yay
12:19<Samu>I'm just at half of the tournament
12:19<Samu>t.t
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13:02<Wolf01>o/
13:03<Wolf01>Hmmm I'm not yet used to the fact that now irc connect superfast instead of 20 seconds of the provider's modem
13:35<Arveen>maybe someone can set up an BBS for you with this channel
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13:38<andythenorth>so
13:38<andythenorth>https://azure.microsoft.com/en-in/resources/samples/sftp-creation-template/
13:39<andythenorth>I could have a newgrf pipeline create an sftp instance on Azure, use that to move the artifacts to permanent Azure storage
13:39<andythenorth>I wonder if AP can publish directly to Azure storage though?
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13:41<andythenorth>https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/pricing/details/storage/files/
13:41<andythenorth>has anyone besides Truebrain used Azure?
13:57*andythenorth tries to understand Azure, but it's fairly overwhelming
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14:18<andythenorth>has anyone got an sftp server they'd be prepared to give me an account on?
14:18<andythenorth>for testing Azure deploys
14:18<andythenorth>I can apparently buy one on Azure but NFI which button I click to do that
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>you could just run one on your local machine?
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>(assuming proper port forwarding)
14:27<andythenorth>I could run one on my wife's laptop :P
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>just start sshd
14:27<andythenorth>against policy
14:27<andythenorth>but yes
14:40<andythenorth>it's amusing that cloud has come so far
14:41<andythenorth>that it's now easier to host newgrfs on my laptop, over my broadband connection
14:41<andythenorth>20 years, full circle
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15:06<+glx>andythenorth: you don't have an sftp on openttdcoop ?
15:06<andythenorth> I don't know
15:06<andythenorth>I never asked for one
15:06<andythenorth>I deliberately don't have ssh
15:22<andythenorth>planetmaker: can I have sftp on openttdcoop? :)
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: isn't that exactly what he offered last time he said something?
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15:29<andythenorth>ssh and sftp are still different, right?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>not really
15:31<andythenorth>oh
15:31<andythenorth>so how is sftp secured?
15:32<+glx>via ssh
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>it's basically just an ssh connection, focused on file transfer instead of remote control
15:32<@LordAro>it just invokes a different "shell" on the other end, basically
15:32<@LordAro>otherwise identical
15:33<@LordAro>are you confusing ftps & sftp ?
15:33<andythenorth>I'm curious how it works
15:33<andythenorth>I read about it before asking
15:33<@LordAro>ftps is ftp + ssl, sftp is ssh + ftp
15:33<andythenorth>I have had sftp to remote boxes without knowing I had shell access
15:33<andythenorth>why have sftp at all?
15:33<@LordAro>it's quite likely you didn't, you can restrict it
15:33<andythenorth>why not just scp?
15:34<+glx>scp is pure ssh
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's the same login process, but can be subject to different server rights
15:34<andythenorth>so if I give azure coop ssh creds, we have a new vuln?
15:35<+glx>usually you only use a key
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you put anything in "the cloud", you have a giant vuln
15:35<andythenorth>there are degrees of risk
15:35<andythenorth>it's not practical to say all cloud = game over
15:35<andythenorth>we save that for Intel CPUs
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: theoretically you'd create a new user on the server, that only has very limited rights
15:36<+glx>and you can restrict access to the user of this key
15:36<andythenorth>right, so AIUI, I can sftp for upload / download
15:36<andythenorth>but I wouldn't be able to get a shell on the machine?
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>that user's key will be uploaded to "the cloud", and used for nothing else
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if set up properly
15:37<andythenorth>so sftp doesn't give me a shell
15:37<andythenorth>if coop is set up properly
15:37<andythenorth>so do I want ssh or sftp?
15:38<+glx>you don't want ssh if you don't trust the user :)
15:38<+glx>but sftp should be ok
15:38<andythenorth>we don't trust the users, neither me, nor azure
15:38<andythenorth>nor people who might push PRs
15:40<andythenorth>hmm I could sftp to S3
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>you can sftp to a graphics card manufacturer from 20 years ago?
15:40<+glx>s3 is amazon
15:41<+glx>IIRC
15:41<andythenorth>I'm worried about bill shock :P
15:41<andythenorth>if I give Azure S3 creds on my account
15:42<andythenorth>I pay the S3 bill if anyone manages to access the creds
15:42<andythenorth>and abuse them
15:42<andythenorth>'cloud is awful'
15:42<andythenorth>:P
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16:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6322: AI can allocate more memory than the system has, crashing the game https://git.io/fj4aO
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16:31<Samu>EmotionAI beats SimpleAI
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16:34<andythenorth>deployed from azure devops build of github FIRS https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-test-1/_andythenorth.firs/docs/html/get_started.html
16:34<andythenorth>it's really horrible, a lot of clicking buttons in bad UIs
16:34<andythenorth>what's worse, running a server, or clicking endless buttons?
16:35<andythenorth>the buttons are confusing, and everything has a security implication
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16:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6322: AI can allocate more memory than the system has, crashing the game https://git.io/fj4a6
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16:46<andythenorth>"You have provided public access to this bucket. We highly recommend that you never grant any kind of public access to your S3 bucket."
16:46<andythenorth>is the result of following the instructions here https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/WebsiteAccessPermissionsReqd.html
16:46<andythenorth>I love this shit :(
16:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7599: UI zoom appearance problems relative to 1.9.1 https://git.io/fj4ab
16:57<andythenorth>ha ha web publishing :D
16:57<andythenorth>https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-test-1/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
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16:58<andythenorth>it was making me so sad not being able to do that
16:58<andythenorth>"get a grip andythenorth" :P
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17:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #6322: AI can allocate more memory than the system has, crashing the game https://git.io/fj4VL
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17:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6322: AI can allocate more memory than the system has, crashing the game https://git.io/fj4VB
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17:22<Hazzard>Is there a way to connect to an openttd server as a client but headless?
17:22<Hazzard>for doing integration testing of soap/suds
17:24<Hazzard>hmm looks possible
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17:26<andythenorth>"This policy contains invalid Json"
17:26<andythenorth>yeah, I copied it from AWS docs
17:26<andythenorth>AWS is made of lulz
17:35<andythenorth>oops bedtime
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21:18<Hazzard>Is there a way to send commands to an OpenTTD *client* ?
21:19<Hazzard>I assumed that running it from command line would let me run commands from there but it seems that is not the case
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of command?
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>you open the ingame console with the key left of 1
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>running from command line only helps if you convert the openttd.exe to a console app
21:29<Hazzard>I used xvfb to run it without an interface :0
21:29<Hazzard>without a gui
21:29<Hazzard>definitely not intended way to play
21:30<Hazzard>but I am trying to write some automatic integration tests
21:30<Eddi|zuHause>i've still no clue what you're trying to do
21:30<Hazzard>Thats fair
21:35<Hazzard>I'm basically trying to run an openttd client headless, like you would run a server headless
21:35<Hazzard>I'm guessing its not possible
21:37<Eddi|zuHause>Hazzard: you might want to check the regression test?
21:38<Eddi|zuHause>or the "-v null:ticks=1000" option
21:43<Hazzard>Eddi|zuHause: Where can I find the regression tests?
21:43<Eddi|zuHause>"make regression"
22:16<+glx>regression test is just an AI
22:18<Hazzard>It seemed like that
22:18<Hazzard>guess its not possilbe without custom build
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22:32<Hazzard>Different question, is there a new version of http://finger.openttd.org/versions.txt somewhere?
22:40<Corns[m]>Yeah the github repo has the latest changelog
22:48<Hazzard>Found it https://proxy.binaries.openttd.org/openttd-nightlies/listing.txt
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---Logclosed Wed May 22 00:00:50 2019