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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-05-27

---Logopened Mon May 27 00:00:58 2019
01:05<Hazzard>I have encountered a bug where I was unable to build waypoints
01:05<Hazzard>after restarting the game it works
01:05<Hazzard>not sure what happened
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02:43<andythenorth>moin
02:43<nakki>guten morgen
03:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7610: Fix #7609, #7165: In the sprite aligner window the 'Reset relative' b… https://git.io/fjRCH
03:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7608: Codechange: Performance improvement in k-d tree FindNearest() https://git.io/fjRC5
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07:53<Corns[m]>I just realised
07:54<Corns[m]>Is there no option to build diagonal ship canals?
07:54<Corns[m]>Because the ships actually do benefit from diagonal movement
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08:22<FLHerne>Same is true for roads, IIRC
08:22<FLHerne>(although there the vehicles don't move continuously diagonally, it's still quicker than the manhattan journey)
08:23<FLHerne>Let me check that...
08:24<Corns[m]>I havent tried roads, i thouhht their speed reduction while turning was costly
08:34<FLHerne>You're right, it doesn't help
08:35<FLHerne>Just finished trying it with a few different vehicles, the straight route is always significantly quicker
08:35<FLHerne>Now I wonder where I got that idea
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08:41<Corns[m]>Haha interesting
08:42<Corns[m]>Have u measured how long it takes (in tiles) for a road vehicle to accelerate back to speed?
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08:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #7610: Fix #7609, #7165: In the sprite aligner window the 'Reset relative' b… https://git.io/fjRZW
09:35<Corns[m]>okay so the speed penalty from turning is the equivalent of being 2 tiles longer
09:37<Corns[m]>for the 88kph bus
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10:02<Samu>damn
10:02<Samu>AMD disappointed
10:02<Samu>announced a 12-core not a 16-core
10:03<Samu>they're milking
10:04<Samu>that's not how you win me as a customer
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10:25<Corns[m]>found a highlighting bug
10:25<Corns[m]>https://i.imgur.com/1zDMTpz.png
10:29<Corns[m]>while selecting an area to flatten, holding ctrl
10:31<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> haha, i don't think i have seen an election projection listing "others" at 13.5 percent <-- the weird part is, even if you separate all the parties that actually got seats, the "other other" category still has like 4%
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11:04<@planetmaker>Corns[m], those non-visible tiles actually do exist... they're just unaccessible
11:05<@planetmaker>so arguably the highlight should not be shown, yes
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12:57<Wolf01>o/
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13:41<@peter1138>win 39
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13:49<andythenorth>yo
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13:59<Corns[m]>planetmaker: oh yeah im aware theres tiles there (is that a side effect of the freeform borders patch?) Is there a way to not render those dots if the tile is MP_VOID?
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14:08<andythenorth>hmm
14:08<andythenorth>grain hoppers? o_O
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14:12<frosch123>do you have tipping wagons?
14:12<andythenorth>not yet
14:12<andythenorth>is it still a grain hopper if the cargo is maize or wheat? o_O
14:12<frosch123>for more interesting discharges
14:13<frosch123>i consider wheat a type of grain
14:13<frosch123>i would not be offended by calling maize a type of grain
14:13<andythenorth>https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srw28100pta
14:14<andythenorth>tipper? o_O
14:15<frosch123>interesting build
14:15<andythenorth>germany has something similar
14:15<andythenorth>that UK one was a one-off prototype, failed
14:15<frosch123>http://www.schroederstollen.de/kipplorentagebau.htm <- i was thinking of feldbahn, mining stuff
14:16<andythenorth>https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/392111109132_/N-Gauge-Arnold-DB-Tipper-Wagons-x-2.jpg
14:17<andythenorth>if I finish Horse, I can do Hog feldbahn :)
14:18<frosch123>http://www.alte-spur-0.de/maerklin/wagen/19770_maerklin_kippwagen_2_achsig_blau <- is that ih scale?
14:18<andythenorth>narrow gauge Horse
14:18<andythenorth>kipper
14:19<frosch123>ah, found it: maize is officially classified as grain
14:19<andythenorth>yay
14:20*andythenorth looks at original baseset grain wagons
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14:20<frosch123>does firs have barley?
14:20<andythenorth>Horse pays homage to originals :)
14:20<andythenorth>barley no
14:20<andythenorth>hops, barley, malt -> brewery?
14:20<andythenorth>what is malt?
14:20<andythenorth>oh malt can be barlet
14:21<andythenorth>barley -> maltings -> malt -> brewery
14:21<andythenorth>urban economy
14:21<frosch123>yeah, malt can be made from barley, wheat, maize and other grains
14:21<andythenorth>malthouse
14:22<andythenorth>I should rename Horse
14:22<andythenorth>Iron Too Many Wagons
14:22*andythenorth wonders if we're doing Vehicle Variants yet?
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14:24<frosch123>hmm, wiki lists both sorgum and millet, but dictionary translates them to the same
14:25<andythenorth>so is grain hopper
14:25<frosch123>translating a few times, you get "'millet' is 'real sorghum'" :s
14:25<andythenorth>(1) same as existing covered hopper, with different sprites, so refits wide range of pourable cargos?
14:25<andythenorth>(2) limited to food-type cargos?
14:27<andythenorth>existing covered hopper is like https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/J-/JGA-bogie-hoppers/JGA-1745x-potash-covered/i-xkFmgVV
14:27<andythenorth>and refits grain, wheat, quicklime, clay, sand, carbon black, plastics, salt, soda ash etc
14:27<frosch123>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cereal#Production <- these statistics are weird
14:27<frosch123>do only german people eat rye?
14:28<andythenorth>it's stereotypically german?
14:28<andythenorth>based on watching people eat breakfast in hotel buffets in Europe
14:28<andythenorth>small sample :P
14:31<frosch123>how are beans transported?
14:31<frosch123>smaller amounts only?
14:32<frosch123>do potatoes fit into hoppers, or are they for open wagons?
14:32<andythenorth>potatoes aren't usually poured at hopper scale
14:32<andythenorth>sugar beets are
14:32<frosch123>hmm, i guess if maize fits, potatoes do as well
14:33<andythenorth>potatoes usually travel ventilated, and in sacks or boxes
14:33<andythenorth>in south america, soy beans etc are transported in bulk hopper
14:33<frosch123>hmm, i have seen many fields with sugar beet, but i have never seen an actual fruit
14:34<frosch123>no idea how big they are
14:34<andythenorth>me neither
14:34<andythenorth>so can I ignore moving my grfs to Azure for a bit?
14:34<andythenorth>if devzone is actually just going to die, I should move them
14:34<andythenorth>but it seems that's premature conclusion?
14:34<frosch123>i am recommending that for weeks :p
14:35<frosch123>i should probably publish the dockers i have
14:35<andythenorth>I'm never sure here what's well-meaning advice, and what's somebody actually doing something :)
14:36<frosch123>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuckerr%C3%BCbe#/media/File:Zuckerr%C3%BCbenmiete_im_Calenberger_Land.jpg <- they are bigger than potatoes and maize
14:36<andythenorth>really quite big
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>Zehn zahme Ziegen zogen zehn Zentner Zucker zum Zeitzer Zug
14:46<frosch123>eddi is infected with alliteritis
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>(i'm insisting that this is the original version of that)
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>(i've heard other versions without the regional specifics, but they are all missing the right metrum)
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14:48<Eddi|zuHause>(Zeitz is one of the green dots on this map https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuckerr%C3%BCbe#/media/File:Zuckerr%C3%BCbengebiete-D.PNG)
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14:56<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9453/grain_hopper_refits_eh.png
14:56<andythenorth>so grain, but no grain
14:56<andythenorth>:)
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>hm... looks odd
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>like a regular cargo wagon with a weird roof
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15:21<andythenorth>I agree
15:22<frosch123>i like how none of the refit optons is a grain
15:28<V453000>:D I missed that completely
15:28<V453000>that's great yes
15:29<andythenorth>no grain in this economy :P
15:29<andythenorth>still a grain wagon :P
15:29<andythenorth>https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtgraincovhop
15:30<andythenorth>even if carrying aluminia
15:30<V453000>such
15:30<V453000>suddenly NUTS wagons are perfectly sensible :D
15:30<andythenorth>very
15:31<andythenorth>Nut Hopper next
15:31<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: IRL it's a hopper with a weird roof https://kelvinsrailways.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/dscf4221.jpg
15:31<andythenorth>but is the roof too weird? I don't like it, was a quick hack
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15:32<Eddi|zuHause>the roof is a secondary problem, the wagon shape is odd...
15:33<andythenorth>I don't like it
15:33<andythenorth>but it's realistic eh? :)
15:33<andythenorth>I am planning to redraw it
15:35<frosch123>i think the problem is that the roof merges with the ladders at the side
15:35<frosch123>remove the ladders or make them a different colour
15:36<andythenorth>the proportions seem wrong too
15:36<frosch123>it may need another horizontal stripe to represent the "height" of the roof, and the ventilation slots
15:37<andythenorth>the roof hatches are also all wrong
15:37<frosch123>currently the small hopper looks better than the medium one
15:38<frosch123>due to all that
15:39<andythenorth>yes
15:40<frosch123>but generally, hoppers having a \__/ shape and closed wagons having a |__| shape, looks good
15:49<andythenorth>I redrew the covered hoppers (higher up in the buy menu, in the screenshot)
15:49<andythenorth>they work ok I think
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the sloped shapes are difficult to see, need to artificially enhance the contrast on those
15:49<andythenorth>this is roughly one of the covered hoppers http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/images/product/SB002P%201-1512035185.jpg
15:51<andythenorth>I suspect the contrast was higher, but if I don't downsample the image, I get extra commentary
15:52<andythenorth>ooh, a red one https://i1.wp.com/www.bachmann.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/38-603.jpg?fit=1000%2C1000&ssl=1
15:55<frosch123>same-colour roof will make the sprite even harder to see
15:55<andythenorth>yellow https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/L305652-PO01_3438169_Qty1_1.jpg
15:56*andythenorth just browsing :P
15:56<andythenorth>the biggest one will be something like https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/38-427-PO_3478835_Qty1_1.jpg
15:57<andythenorth>o_O https://farkham4mm.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/scot-malt-polybulk-pic.jpg
15:57<frosch123>https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2018/3/20/b/9/6/b96b4310-896b-4cf9-a71c-5bc612dda65e.jpg <- roof with multiple small doors
15:58<frosch123>https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2018/5/29/6/c/b/6cb23f8c-b06e-423e-b0b3-eeab7809a88f.jpg <- more extreme slope
16:00<frosch123>http://www.multiport.lt/2013/tpl/images/portfolio/grudvezis.jpg <- structured side walls
16:00<andythenorth>so many types I could draw :D
16:01<frosch123>does IH have real wagons, or inspired wagons?
16:02<frosch123>https://www.dm-toys.de/dateien/redaktion/fotos/845101/02.jpg <- huh, that's a weird one
16:02<andythenorth>inspired
16:02<frosch123>would work for loading stages
16:02<andythenorth>currently UK inspired
16:02<andythenorth>I'll do other countries...in another life
16:02<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9454/hoppity_hop.png
16:03<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9455/hoppity_covered_hop.png
16:03<andythenorth>the first 2 covered hoppers need redrawn to match the blue ones :P
16:04<andythenorth>that bucket wagon ^^^ would be...hard to draw :D
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>the medium hoppers there also have the slope problem
16:07<andythenorth>how about these? o_O https://railpictures.net/photo/698258/
16:17<frosch123>weren't you looknig for covered ones?
16:17<frosch123>but otherwise, the more sloped on front/back the better
16:19<andythenorth>I like the tractor moving them
16:19<andythenorth>very HEQS
16:21<frosch123>oh, i din'T scroll to the right
16:22<andythenorth>oh rectangular grain wagon https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/360/0611/12/kit-built-oo-lner-br-grain-wagon_360_0f88578f289307a30825473007094f1a.jpg
16:29<andythenorth>oof combo grain / box car :P http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=238939
16:29<andythenorth>all bets are now off
16:50<andythenorth>now I just need to fix https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9456/hoppity_grain_1.png
16:50<andythenorth>- the sides
16:50<andythenorth>- the roof
16:59<frosch123>https://github.com/frosch123/NewGRFfarm <- that's the docker stuff, i am still experimenting with jenkins and buildbot as alternative
17:00<andythenorth>hurrah :)
17:00<frosch123>also, i added a 0.4 branch to nml. not sure whether someone wants to backport non-16/16-industry related stuff
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17:01*andythenorth has never used docker
17:01<andythenorth>does the Dockerfile run containers, or script the creation of containers?
17:01<frosch123>the latter
17:02<andythenorth>ok so if specific projects had different deps, that could be a PR?
17:02<andythenorth>not SSH and hand-maintaining?
17:02<frosch123>build.sh builds the container, then you can run "farm-nml-0.4.sh path/to/project-checkout" to build it
17:02<andythenorth>and I can also get docker locally to test this
17:02<andythenorth>unlike Azure :P
17:03<frosch123>https://github.com/frosch123/NewGRFfarm/blob/master/docker-farm-linux/Dockerfile <- you just add more dependencies there
17:03<frosch123>i don't see use in different containers for different projects
17:03<frosch123>so just add everything to all
17:03<frosch123>you can't possibly beat the gimp depenency of ogfx+ projects :p
17:04<frosch123>andythenorth: if you install locally, learn about user roles/groups, or people can run stuff as root on your machine
17:04<frosch123>i actually run docker inside a vm locally
17:04<frosch123>s/user roles/user ids/
17:05<andythenorth>I didn't install docker previously because valid tinfoil
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17:07*andythenorth missed the nml comment
17:07<andythenorth>not sure at all what we're doing with nml :)
17:18<andythenorth>bit less rubbish https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9457/grain_mctrain.png
17:19<andythenorth>not sure if I'll fix the roof or leave it
17:19<andythenorth>NRT Hog > Horse Perfection Edition
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17:35<andythenorth>if in doubt, add some yellow https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9458/grain_mctrains.png
17:35<andythenorth>original base set does same :D
17:36<andythenorth>Unbounded Realism ® https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/33-127A-U_3326553_Qty1_2.jpg
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---Logclosed Tue May 28 00:00:59 2019