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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-06-12

---Logopened Wed Jun 12 00:00:21 2019
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01:27<nakki>yeah, people who just pop in for a question at 3am and leave after a couple minutes are amusing
01:28<nakki>and what sort of a schmuck doesn't have his irc client running inside tmux on a server anyways
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03:11<Eddi|zuHause>nakki: it would be less concerning if he didn't repeat that every other night
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04:06<Corns[m]>progress on my patch:
04:09*andythenorth teddy-bear newgrf dev
04:09<andythenorth>steam/diesel feldbahn is 16/8 (1 tile)
04:09<andythenorth>should electric feldbahn be longer to reflect higher power?
04:10<andythenorth>or is electric vs. steam/diesel just visual?
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04:36<FLHerne>I don't think I'd care, tbh
04:37<FLHerne>So, yes, visuals >> anything else
04:37<FLHerne>Realistically, an "efficient" feldbahn is going to be one that doesn't exist because there's a huge ro-ro rail station next to every industry
04:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: gameplay-wise, 1 tile is probably the optimum, longer gets you in trouble with stations.
04:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could offer also a 2-tile version, and merge them with this thing that nobody will ever implement...
05:42<andythenorth>there is that yes
05:46<Corns[m]>Q to devs before i go further with my patch: whats the consensus on pathfinding building tools?
05:46<Corns[m]>I'm wondering if its too much of a gameplay change/ too "powerful"
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think there's a consensus
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06:36<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I could do 1-tile electric, but increase capacity per tile?
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't make a lot of sense...
06:36<andythenorth>that keeps the vehicle flow the same (station length), but offers more capacity / time
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>just increasing power/speed not enough?
06:37<andythenorth>or I could keep 1-tile and just allow the higher HP to translate into more capacity / time
06:37<andythenorth>electric should have some bonus, but not excessive
06:38*andythenorth wonders whether to adopt the variable length trams from HEQS
06:38<andythenorth>it's quite neat, it just fails with autoreplace
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06:51<FLHerne>andythenorth: Don't, please
06:51<FLHerne>The larger problem with that is station-refit
06:51<FLHerne>(unless someone solved that and I didn't notice?)
06:52<LordAro>Corns[m]: i'm personally tempted to say that it's too powerful
06:52<LordAro>but as Eddi says, there's no consensus
06:52<LordAro>i'd post about it on the forums and see what the feedback says
06:52<FLHerne>The main use-case for trams is as feeder shuttles, and that's just where refit-to-available is really valuable
06:53<FLHerne>LordAro: I don't think that's a valid argument, tbh
06:53<LordAro>like i said, no consensus :p
06:53<FLHerne>The 'make all the money' approach is to drag-and-drop perfectly straight railway lines across the map
06:54<FLHerne>Ignoring hills and anything else that's in the way
06:54<FLHerne>(because the cost of extra locomotives is trivial compared to the time cost of building decent infrastructure)
06:54<LordAro>the 'make all the money' approach is to put 2 airports down at opposite ends of the map
06:54<FLHerne>Some servers do ban aircraft
06:55<FLHerne>Or have a very low limit
06:55<FLHerne>Canals are slow, expensive and don't naturally go up hills
06:55<LordAro>those servers would probably "ban" such straight railway lines as well
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06:56<FLHerne>No-one is going to be exploiting the autorouter to build giant canals, and even if they do it'll look less stupid than those straight railways
06:56<LordAro>for me, building the routes is a significant part of the game
06:56<FLHerne>LordAro: I mean, you can ban aircraft by setting the limit to 0, in an otherwise-hands-off server
06:56<LordAro>i wouldn't necessarily want to add a "do it for me button"
06:56<FLHerne>And some of the competitive ones do that
06:57<FLHerne>Because they're so blatantly game-breaking
06:57<LordAro>there is no consensus, and i'm not going to complain if someone else decides it is desirable
06:59<FLHerne>I don't think I'd /use/ it, but I have no objection to it existing
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07:14<Corns[m]>LordAro: i guess its of a similar magnitude to copy-paste patch?
07:14<LordAro>Corns[m]: that's my feeling on it, anyway
07:15<Corns[m]>I'm curious tho - what would stop a third party client from implementing this and chaining DoCommandP?
07:19<LordAro>nothing really
07:19<Corns[m]>Oops sorry the messages inbetween didnt load
07:20<Corns[m]>Thank you for your input :) Yeah i guess I'll ask on the forums
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07:34<peter1138>Hmm, is it lunch time...
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07:34<peter1138>As if by magic.
07:34<andythenorth>was it?
07:35<andythenorth>I had soup
07:35<andythenorth>and bread
07:38<andythenorth>so 1-tile feldbahn is more effective for gameplay
07:39<andythenorth>but the motivation here is that long trains of tiny industrial wagons just looks neat
07:40<andythenorth>HEQS longest industrial tram is 5 tiles :P
07:40<andythenorth>might be overkill
07:41<andythenorth>4 tiles is good
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>probably not, but i don't know how big that one actually is
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>grr... was in buffer
07:50<Eddi|zuHause> <Corns[m]> LordAro: i guess its of a similar magnitude to copy-paste patch?
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>i guess it depends on how well you can bend the existing pathfinder into shape
07:53<Eddi|zuHause><Corns[m]> I'm curious tho - what would stop a third party client from implementing this and chaining DoCommandP? <-- we have some burst limits for things like terraforming, if needed that can be extended
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, simple drag&drop placement will probably suffice for canals, but for rails you'd probably want settings for curve radius and slope distance
07:58-!-D-HUND is now known as debdog
08:06<Corns[m]>Yeah I was thinking implementing an extra window so that the user can adjust settings, such as whether to build canals on river and ocean tiles, or whether to treat farmland tiles with an increased weight comma or whether to enable / disable Aqua ducks
08:06<Corns[m]>Speech-to-text tried it's best
08:09<Corns[m]>I know that the optimal distance for the hovercrafts ships with passenger service is 600 tiles, so I reckon that's a motivator for needing a Pathfinder tool for canals
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09:00<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what aqua ducks are, but i think we need them :p
09:02<nakki>recommended listening: Jethro Tull - Aqualung
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09:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure i heard that before, but no clue how that sounds
09:10<Samu>round 35 nearly over, 2 matches still running
09:34<andythenorth>and yes also this
09:34<andythenorth>peter1138 probably ^
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>i think i need a manual for that
09:49<andythenorth>I srtruggled
09:49<andythenorth>but I am also not musical :|
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>these slider thingies are certainly annoying to use. you want to turn them, but it only registers up/down movement
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>still haven't found out how to actually make a sound
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>is this thing even on?
10:08<Eddi|zuHause> <-- there should probably be a link?
10:10<andythenorth>start / stop
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>ah, now, i got some sound :p
10:11<andythenorth>quite addictive
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>no, quite annoying
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>i turned it off
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>i'd rather use something designed with usability in mind, and not some pseudo-nostalgic technical limitations from 40 years ago
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11:33<andythenorth>I've just never used a drum machine, so the novelty value is high
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't quite compare to using actual drums :p
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13:01<andythenorth>supermop_work: yo
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13:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 opened pull request #7621: Feature: Town name filtering
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14:11<supermop_work>hi andy
14:17*andythenorth wondering 'why electric feldbahn?'
14:17<andythenorth>compared to steam/diesel feldbahn
14:18<andythenorth>apart from realism
14:32<andythenorth>200 feldbahn vehicles seems overkill
14:32<andythenorth>13 wagon/cargo types, 2 power types, 2 lengths, 4 generations
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15:27<V453000>oh wow what happened to the tt-forums style :D
15:30<andythenorth>I am not commenting
15:30<andythenorth>maybe I get used to it
15:30<andythenorth>change is good?
15:31<V453000>idk, it's good enough for me to open it a few times per week :D
15:32<frosch123>o*udge asked for someone to update the style for a new version, about a year ago
15:32<frosch123>so, i guess, noone volunteered
15:33<frosch123>("a year" is a guess, may as well be "1/2 year")
15:33<frosch123>but it proabably also means that noone will complain during december
15:35<andythenorth>I use silver fountains anyway
15:35<@orudge>frosch123: no, there was some help, but a bit more work was needed - I got some more work done, but need to do a bit more still
15:35<@orudge>Christmas theme hasn't been updated yet, too - if you're (un)lucky I'll get it done in time ;)
15:36<frosch123>andythenorth: i never log in, so i always get the default theme
15:39<V453000>frosch123: silver is the same cancer that kovarex will use until his death :D
15:39<V453000>I wonder what happens when we do a visual overhaul of our forums
15:40<frosch123>f is mostly black, like the ingame gui
15:40<frosch123>what is silver about that?
15:41<V453000>well our forums also have a silver non-default theme
15:42<frosch123>i think i only logged in once, and then found that someone else had already posted what i wanted to post
15:42<V453000>honestly I only use our forums in bare minimum
15:42<V453000>I prefer reddit where a discussion is a tree and people replying to a thing with any relevancy are under the tree
15:43<V453000>where in a forum it's a topic over another topic, so if you have a FFF about 4 things, there's 10 pages of mixed 4 + number of topics people invented from reading the FFF over those pages
15:50<andythenorth>forums are dead?
15:51<LordAro>forms lack vision
15:51<frosch123>internet is dead
15:51<LordAro>computers are broken
15:52<frosch123>that's by design
15:52<LordAro> this was todays
15:57<frosch123>can i deny downloading copyrighted stuff, by declaring that the content appeared on its own due to random bit flips?
15:58<LordAro>i doubt it, somehow
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16:10<andythenorth>so wagons for RVs? o_O
16:11<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7621: Feature: Town name filtering
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17:37<@orudge>The forums should be a little less horrible to look at
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17:53<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, the blue is gone, but the lines and icons are still too bright
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>plus a dozen smaller issues...
17:55<@orudge>It's not finished
17:55<@orudge>Icons etc need to be addressed
17:55<@orudge>and no doubt other tweaks
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19:57<Samu_>round 35 finished
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20:22<nnyby_>what's that cool minimalist image host that people here always use?
20:22<nnyby_>heh nvm, had it in my github favs.
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23:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 updated pull request #7621: Feature: Town name filtering
23:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 updated pull request #7621: Feature: Town name filtering
23:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on pull request #7621: Feature: Town name filtering
---Logclosed Thu Jun 13 00:00:22 2019