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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-07-10

---Logopened Wed Jul 10 00:00:01 2019
02:35-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p4FCEE2EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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03:16-!-Eddi|zuHause is "Johannes E. Krause" on #openttd
03:17<Eddi|zuHause>i still haven't figured out how to keep the system responsive during high/borderline swapping behaviour
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08:06<andythenorth>hmm
08:07<andythenorth>some kind of way of settting liveries? o_O
08:07<andythenorth>(sprites, not CC)
08:22<andythenorth>but as there isn't...which is better?
08:22<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9470/HST-livery-1.png
08:22<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9471/HST-livery-2.png
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09:01<@peter1138>It's okay but your pixels are still too big.
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09:11<andythenorth>yes
09:11<andythenorth>it's my compute
09:11<andythenorth>r
09:11<andythenorth>it's too big
09:19-!-supermop_work [~supermopw@162.213.133.189] has joined #openttd
09:19-!-supermop_work is "A CIRC user" on #openttd
09:19<supermop_work>hi
09:25<nakki>hello
09:28<andythenorth>supermop_work: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9470/HST-livery-1.png or https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9471/HST-livery-2.png ??
09:28<supermop_work>well
09:29<supermop_work>1 didn't exist anymore when i lived in the UK, but i always loved the big yellow 'chin'
09:30<andythenorth>maybe I should do liveries on cargo subtypes :P
09:30<andythenorth>like all the other popular sets
09:30<supermop_work>eh
09:30<andythenorth>rail blue & white version?
09:30<supermop_work>GNER
09:30<andythenorth>I can't flip these, articulated vehicle
09:30<andythenorth>so no livery tricks
09:30<andythenorth>random? :P
09:30<supermop_work>all hst liveries are good
09:31<supermop_work>you don't need to give everyone all the toys though
09:31<andythenorth>Horse 88%
09:31<andythenorth>I need to draw more stuff :P
09:31<andythenorth>tried it recently supermop_work? o_O
09:31<andythenorth>it's nearly good
09:32<andythenorth>(Horse, not drawing)
09:32<supermop_work>id either use the livery you liked most as a kid, or whatever is most different from other trains in the set
09:32<supermop_work>not in 1-2 months
09:32<supermop_work>new job has been like 50-60 hours a week
09:32<andythenorth>oof
09:37<supermop_work>waste of a summer so far!
09:37<andythenorth>new york summer?
09:38<andythenorth>oh
09:38<andythenorth>I can't bridge over locks :P
09:38<andythenorth>nvm
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10:52<@planetmaker>a supermop! Long time no see
11:01<andythenorth>a planetmaker! Long time no see :)
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11:11<@planetmaker>:) Summer time...
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11:17<@peter1138>MTB night!
11:30<andythenorth>does nml magically convert {POWER}
11:30<andythenorth>?
11:30*andythenorth wonders
11:30<andythenorth>if I give it 1000hp, what it does :P
11:32<andythenorth>"Provided a static argument for string command 'POWER' which is invalid"
11:32<andythenorth>oof
11:32<andythenorth>nvm
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13:09<andythenorth>it's easier to draw fast trains
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13:17<Wolf01>I bet at least 2 people downloaded OTTD from M$ store yesterday, but none of them played it :P
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>is there a more reliable way to find what's using memory? because according to top, memory runs out, but memory usage by programs is about 30%
13:54<nielsm>systemwide?
13:54<nielsm>maybe /tmp or similar on ramdisk? (/dev/shm or whatever)
13:54<nielsm>or other shared memory that can perhaps not be attributed to a single process
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>not significant
14:03<milek7>'runs out' means no free or no available?
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14:06<Eddi|zuHause>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppjmb4kop
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>no available
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>note this paste, where res/shr of the process grew by about 4G (30%), but avail mem dropped by about 7G
14:10<andythenorth>Horse 89%
14:11<nielsm>I see your time machine is still functional
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't call it that
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>i just got lucky :p
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>it was unresponsive for like half an hour in my earlier tests
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, this memory-usage makes the game barely playable
14:21<LordAro>remove swap, see what happens
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>why would i do that?
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>"your memory is low" -> "try to put the 1.8G used swap into the 1G remaining mem"?!?
14:35<LordAro>you'd be surprised, memory allocation, and how it is counted is quite hard
14:36<LordAro>there are various different types of memory allocation
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i can tell you what happens, the avail mem goes near zero, and the system is drowning in i/o
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>being unresponsive for hours
14:41<milek7>there should be a way to set OOM-killer threshold to max-50mib or something
14:41<milek7>i have to do sysrq magic to unlock system after something eats memory
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>which sysrq magic do you do?
14:45<milek7>invoke oom-killer
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but which button is that?
14:48<supermop_work>hi planetmaker
14:48<milek7>f
14:49<supermop_work>Eddi|zuHause: ram usage on my work computer never makes sense to me
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14:53<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> if I give it 1000hp, what it does :P <-- units like "hp" only work in specific contexts. too much magic involved to make it generic
14:55<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: pmap 29359
14:56<frosch123>will tell you how much heap alloced, swapped, mmapped, ....
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i have the suspicion that the other 3G are buried in the graphics driver or something
15:06<andythenorth>can I read the setting for power unit and perform my own conversion?
15:07<andythenorth> I only use imperial hp, so my interest in doing that is minimal :P
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: power unit should be findable in the nml source code, or the wiki
15:11<andythenorth>can't see a setting for it here https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ReadingPatchVariables
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>you can't read display settings
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>would desync
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15:17<_moep_>hello people!
15:17<nielsm>hi
15:18<_moep_>how can I apply at the gameplay for subsidies? In the wiki I just see where I find it.
15:18<_moep_>and how can I disable e.g. trees when I want to build something
15:19-!-supermop_work [~supermopw@162.213.133.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:19<nielsm>you mean how to obtain the subsidy after it has been offered?
15:19<nielsm>you just complete one transport of the type the subsidy wants
15:19<_moep_>nielsm: so I just do it?
15:19<nielsm>yep
15:19<_moep_>ah ok
15:20<frosch123>_moep_: Ctrl+X to open transparency options
15:20<_moep_>thx
15:20<frosch123>there you can set trees to somewhat transparent or completely invisible
15:21<nielsm>and pressing just X alone will toggle transparency
15:21<nielsm>between everything visible and the defaults set in the transparency options window
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15:26<frosch123>my brother just requested a tool+sources i wrote in 1999
15:26<frosch123>i wrote funny things back then
15:27<frosch123>actually, it's from 1997
15:31<andythenorth>wow
15:32<frosch123>yeah, i actually found it :p
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15:33<supermop_work>breaker tripped
15:34<frosch123>coffee machine broken?
15:37<andythenorth>supermop_work: made you a large logo train https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9472/grids.png
15:37<andythenorth>no actual logo, won't look good :P
15:37<supermop_work>nice
15:37<supermop_work>put an ottd logo on it
15:39<andythenorth>o_O
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the numbers in pmap only differ insignificantly from the ones in top
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17:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Brandonlk opened issue #7645: Bug? Train Depots not working as expected https://git.io/fjP8d
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17:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7645: Bug? Train Depots not working as expected https://git.io/fjP4n
17:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Brandonlk commented on issue #7645: Bug? Train Depots not working as expected https://git.io/fjP4C
17:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7645: Bug? Train Depots not working as expected https://git.io/fjP4B
17:40-!-tuuktuuk [~tuuktuuk@dsl-hkibng11-50dc41-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
17:40-!-tuuktuuk is "Tuukka Ryyppö" on #openttd
17:41<tuuktuuk>Hey there! How do I tell OpenTTD where to look for libraries on Mac?
17:42<tuuktuuk>It requires liblzma 8.0.0. It looks for it in a place where I have 6.0.0, but I do have the 8.0.0 as well.
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>compile time or runtime?
17:43<tuuktuuk>Runtime.
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>i have no experience with mac, but probably something to do with LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>but your installation of liblzma 8 should have done that for you
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's not really a problem with openttd itself
17:47<tuuktuuk>True. I'm using MacPorts, which is in many manners outdated, because this computer is aeons old and it was the best option back then. Switching to Homebrew would now cause even more trouble, so I'm kinda stuck with MacPorts, even though it does this kind of crap.
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>still, i'd play with LD_LIBRARY_PATH first, and see what happens
17:49<tuuktuuk>export DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="/opt/local/lib"
17:50<tuuktuuk>That did it.
17:50<tuuktuuk>Knew what to google for after your tip! Thanks :)
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18:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Brandonlk commented on issue #7645: Bug? Train Depots not working as expected https://git.io/fjP42
18:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7645: Bug? Train Depots not working as expected https://git.io/fjP41
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18:36<Eddi|zuHause>are there still mainboards with a PCI slot?
18:42<debdog>Eddi|zuHause: https://www.alternate.de/html/listings/1458224804365/1458225654338?lk=8466&filter_21=1.0&filter_21=2.0&filter_21=3.0&showFilter=false
18:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7613: Generating too many news messages at once crashes the game. https://git.io/fjP4F
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18:45<Eddi|zuHause>debdog: i take that as a "no"
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>debdog: can't find any among those that support modern processors
18:48<debdog>hmm
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, it says AM4, but: "Um auch neueste Prozessorkerne zu unterstützen, ist evtl. ein BIOS-Update erforderlich." <- not sure i should put up with that
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18:54<milek7>https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/AMD-X570-Support.jpg
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18:56<milek7>why most motherboards try to look like christmas trees?
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>because of RGB!!1!
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: still conflicting information on X370 mainboard...
19:02<milek7>look at bios changelog for specific motherboard
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>still, how do you get the bios update on the board?
19:03<milek7>update it with old gen cpu..
19:03<milek7>at least here stores typically offer to upgrade it when ordering
19:16<debdog>Eddi|zuHause: put up with that? that usually is the first step when getting a new board
19:17<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7646: Random map generation failure crashes the game (dedicated server). https://git.io/fjPBl
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19:26<Eddi|zuHause>debdog: there is a difference between installing a bios update after you got the system to run and installing a bios update so you can get the system to run
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 11 00:00:02 2019