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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-07-13

---Logopened Sat Jul 13 00:00:05 2019
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01:58<andythenorth>moin
02:09<@peter1138>It is.
02:09<@peter1138>Hmm, should I go out on the early ride?
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02:18<andythenorth>yes
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03:09<andythenorth>mumble mumble progression
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03:37<andythenorth>so it turns out that massive power increases per generation don't work
03:38<andythenorth>because engine run costs increase, but train size doesn't, for an established network
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05:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7627: Fix #7626: Allow building of drive-through stops over one-way/blocked roads owned by towns (instead of crashing). https://git.io/fjXqf
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07:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper opened pull request #7653: Build vehicle smart gui https://git.io/fjXmK
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07:43<LordAro>intriguing
07:50<andythenorth>doesn't include 'optimum livery choice' :P
07:51<andythenorth>how are we doing liveries now? :P
07:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7653: Build vehicle smart gui https://git.io/fjXmx
07:58<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Build vehicle smart gui https://git.io/fjXmK
08:00<andythenorth>Horse 91% again :P
08:03<andythenorth>somehow the idea for Horse has gone off the rails :)
08:03<andythenorth>originally it was '10 engines'
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08:03<andythenorth>now it is 75 engines
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08:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXYT
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08:13<reldred>andythenorth: I am okay with this
08:13<reldred>please gib more
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: "10 engines" was never a sustainable goal
08:16<andythenorth>no
08:16<andythenorth>I checked Dan's original plan
08:17<andythenorth>it instantly evolved to 16
08:17<andythenorth>8 steam, 8 diesel / electric
08:17<andythenorth>and then there was narrow gauge to add
08:18<andythenorth>and TGV
08:18<andythenorth>and then a 6th generation was needed for long games :P
08:18<andythenorth>inflation :P
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>maybe we should throw CETS at the "smart" GUI, see what happens?
08:18<reldred>Planning is essential but plans are useless?
08:19<andythenorth>that
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>there are people in this world for whom "plan" is a detailed step-by-step description that must not be deviated from at all costs
08:20<reldred>and those people are weak and shall be purged
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>for some strange reason those people have a tendency to remain in highranking positions
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>and resist purging
08:21<reldred>Don't they just
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>i quit my last job partially because i was up against one such person
08:24<andythenorth>my wife has a plan that I should be doing something else right now
08:24<andythenorth>BBL
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08:24<reldred>Shoulda planned ahead and not got a wife :P
08:24<reldred>hahahahah I'm so lonely
08:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXYZ
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09:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXYw
09:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
09:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
09:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
09:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
09:52<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjXOG
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10:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjX3T
10:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjX3k
10:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjX3O
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11:28<Beerbelott>Hello. Does OpenTTD running as dedicated accept server commands through stdin?
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11:38<nielsm>I think so yes
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11:59<+michi_cc>LordAro: Do you know how the website news posts are ordered? Is it by file name or something else (i.e. does the dev post have to be renamed to be first)?
12:02<nielsm>probably descending order by filename
12:02<nielsm>unless the templating engine does something smarter and first splits the date off then orders them within each day
12:27<LordAro>michi_cc: filename is used to generste the oost date, afaik
12:28<LordAro>other than that, i think it's just alphabetical
12:28<LordAro>generate* post*
12:28<LordAro>ah, nielsm got there first :)
12:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjZhM
12:30<+michi_cc>So basically this commit ^^?
12:31<milek7>i bought a new cpu
12:31<milek7>38s for openttd rebuild
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12:32<nielsm>yeah that looks like it would put the post first :)
12:33<+michi_cc>So comments and edits today, and tomorrow somebody can hit approve.
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12:33<nielsm>"Some polish." good thing it wasn't "Some Polish.", that would limit the audience somewhat
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13:12<Beerbelott>nielsm: I'm not sure stdin serves as an interface for console commands
13:13<Beerbelott>I started a dedicated process as frontend (-D). I can type commands in this interactive prompt (referenced later as the "terminal").
13:13<Beerbelott>However, if I write to /proc/<PID>/fd/0, the content is duplicated on the terminal, but the corresponding action is not triggered
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13:44<+glx>stdin should work, autopilot used it
13:44<+glx>but it's easier to just use admin port
13:45<+glx>well autopilot was a wrapper around the interactive prompt
13:46<Samu>scoring round 14, it was different than I expected
13:46<Samu>many bankrupts
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13:57*andythenorth backing up 1TB laptop to 500GB USB drive
13:57<andythenorth>guess how well that's going? :P
14:00<andythenorth>500MB of OpenTTD content downloads :P
14:00-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>dd if=/dev/whatever | xz > file?
14:03<andythenorth>something like that :P
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14:10<andythenorth>trains https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9475/very_vinyls.png
14:10<andythenorth>turns out I can do silly livery styles, train 41
14:10<andythenorth>like a vinyl wrap
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14:25<Samu>Grinchios and Rythorn Airline AI, two AIs that were based on WrightAI, and yet they're still behind WrightAI in total score, after 15 rounds.
14:26<Samu>disappointing
14:26<Samu>i dunno if it's my testing methods
14:26<Samu>my scoring
14:27<Samu>but why would someone make an AI that is going to be worse than the original
14:27<@planetmaker>optimized for different settings.
14:32<Samu>there are atm 20 AIs below WrightAI's score
14:32<Samu>20 out of 48
14:32<Samu>47 without counting WrightAI itself
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14:46<_moep_>hey! how can I download the different grafics? I downloaded in openttd and enabled it, but it wasnt loaded
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>you need to start a new game, won't be added to existing savegames
14:47<_moep_>oh ok, good to know :D
14:48<Samu>some of these times I logged were impressive, turns out most of them were times after a bankrupt
14:48<Samu>it completely changes the scoring
14:48<Samu>seems that I did the right approach with my scoring rules
14:49<_moep_>lol
14:49<Samu>bankrupted scores go below bankruptless scores
14:49<Samu>no matter the time
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15:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
15:11<Beerbelott>glx: I am trying to differentiate the interactive prompt from stdin
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15:12<Beerbelott>The interactive prompt does work, while stdin seems to receive messages but does not "interpret" them, cf. details I provided sooner
15:12<Beerbelott>Is this expected?
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>Beerbelott: maybe the admin port is something for your purposes?
15:17<Beerbelott>Yup, through RCON protocol
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>nobody seriously used stdin for like 5 years now
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>who knows what got broken there :p
15:17<Beerbelott>I was expecting being able to find the same behaviour on stdin that existed on the interactive prompt. It seems it's not the case
15:17<Beerbelott>Haha
15:18<Beerbelott>Ah that means it might be a regression then, modulo confirmation it's a defect
15:18<Beerbelott>Interesting
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>it might be
15:18<Beerbelott>I'd say I'd dig into that but I'll push one idea at a time...
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>i fail to imagine how, but it still might be
15:20<nielsm>dedicated_v.cpp doesn't do anything funny with stdin
15:20<nielsm>it does select() on it to check if any input is waiting but that's it
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/385771/writing-to-stdin-of-a-process <- might be related
15:26<+glx>indeed seems unrelated to our code :)
15:38<Beerbelott>Ah. Well.
15:38<Beerbelott>I was a lil bit afraid of involving FIFO piping in there. It seems it might be the only way
15:38*Beerbelott sighs
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, again, the admin port is probably better suited :p
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15:48<Eddi|zuHause>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pufenwakt <-- i've got this SSD that refuses to be recognized, any suggestions?
15:51<+glx>new SSD ?
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>not really new
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>it was in this mini-PC, and stopped working at some point. it's been sitting on my desk ever since
15:52<LordAro>check the cable
15:52<LordAro>otherwise, it's probably dead
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>currently reading https://dfarq.homeip.net/fix-dead-ssd/
15:52<LordAro>(& MB SATA port)
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's not the cable, i tried multiple ways of connecting
15:52<LordAro>(& power)
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>external usb connector, internal one on my main pc, etc.
15:53<LordAro>probably dead then
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15:56<+glx>cost nothing to try the power cycle trick
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16:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
16:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjXZy
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16:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjXZQ
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16:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
16:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
16:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
16:37<andythenorth>all the same sprite https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9476/traxx.png
16:37<andythenorth>do they look different?
16:37<andythenorth>sprite / shape of train /s
16:39<+glx>I can see it's basically the same engine
16:40<+glx>but the colors make them totally different
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16:43<andythenorth>winner
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>i don't like sprite
16:54<andythenorth>sprite is sad
16:58<andythenorth>oops
16:58<andythenorth>I hit industry directory menu item by accident
16:58<andythenorth>bye bye game
16:59<andythenorth>can I patch that menu item out?
17:02<andythenorth>eh :) mac frame rate has tanked again
17:02<andythenorth>it pegs one CPU core to 100%, and fps drops to 16-20 fps
17:03<andythenorth>if a news message appears and I click on it
17:03<andythenorth>CPU drops back to the usual 50%-80%
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: just remove that loop from the function that crashes
17:03<andythenorth>and FPS goes back to 32 fps
17:04<andythenorth>the clicking news message thing may be coincidental to resolving the fps problem, but anecdotally one fixes the other
17:06<andythenorth>and I hit industry directory button again :(
17:06<andythenorth>this is slow gameplay :P
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>so, i'm now at https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pw0twdejs ... not sure if that counts as progress? :p
17:06<andythenorth>250GB
17:07<andythenorth>about €30
17:07<andythenorth>what's this worth as a fun activity? :)
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>the true adventure was the experience we got on the way, and the friends we made.
17:09<Beerbelott>Are there specs written anywhere about the RCON format used by that game? I cannot get past the initial size + type (both of which I seem to have figured as being uint16 & uint8). THe code seems to be reading 2 null-terminated strings in the payload (for authenticated RCON client commands), but sending just that fails with "Client <ID> made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'received invalid or unexpected packet'"
17:09<Beerbelott>The size seems to be just right as incremeting it makes the server wait for the next packet
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17:09<Eddi|zuHause>Beerbelott: there are some existing admin port libraries for python and java
17:10<Beerbelott>This thing https://code.google.com/archive/p/openttd-python/ ?
17:10<Beerbelott>Well. THis https://github.com/bridgeduan/openttd-python
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>i was more thinking of https://github.com/Xaroth/libottdadmin2
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17:21<Beerbelott>Thx
17:27<+glx>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/docs/admin_network.txt <-- basic doc, some values need to be searched in the code
17:27<+glx>easier to use an existing lib :)
17:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjZhM
17:37<andythenorth>hmm
17:38<andythenorth>what's the equivalent to 'electro-diesel' for a train that uses hydrogen fuel cell or wired supply?
17:38<andythenorth>'bi-mode' isn't specific enough :P
17:39<andythenorth>hydrail? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrail :P
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>"Hybrid (Hydrogen)", "Hybrid (Diesel)", "Hybrid (Battery)"?
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>i still don't understand why there aren't any battery powered trains that can charge while under wire
17:42<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: There are battery-powered trams that do
17:42<FLHerne>(in Seville, and Birmingham, and I think some other places)
17:43<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: And an experimental one here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_379#BEMU_trial
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>FLHerne: yeah, but we used battery powered trains for over 100 years now
17:43<FLHerne>(which did run in passenger service)
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>but it never really took off
17:44<FLHerne>If you have a branch short enough to run a BEMU, but electrified at one end, it's probably cheaper to electrify the thing than equip a small non-standard fleet with batteries
17:45<+glx>battery is mostly used to keep the lights in case of catenary fail here I think
17:45<+glx>but A/C doesn't work in this case
17:45<FLHerne>Electrification is expensive if you need extra feeder stations, or complex multi-track gantries and junctions with lots of odd bits of wire
17:46<FLHerne>Plain single/twin line is pretty cheap, unless you're NR
17:47<FLHerne>It's only become plausible recently because (a) batteries are cheaper, (b) high-energy-density batteries mean much longer range
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>FLHerne: i mean things like https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittfeld-Akkumulatortriebwagen or https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB-Baureihe_ETA_150
17:47<+glx>for a tram it's usually possible to run on batteries, but a train is heavier
17:48<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, we had a similar experimental one in the '60s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_BEMU
17:49<FLHerne>Oh, no, those were mass-produced
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>these weren't exactly experimental
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>the ETA 150 were in service for 40 years
17:52*FLHerne reads
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18:10*andythenorth sleeps
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18:13<Eddi|zuHause>is that just me or have there been half a dozen factorio clones recently?
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>https://store.steampowered.com/app/898720/Kubifaktorium/ just popped up in my steam suggestions
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18:58<Hazzard>Hello
19:01<Hazzard>What actually uses indudstry->prod_level? Comments say not smooth economy https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/1.9.2/src/industry.h#L48
19:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas opened pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais" https://git.io/fjXcY
19:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais" https://git.io/fjXcZ
19:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais" https://git.io/fjXcY
19:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nikolas commented on pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjXc4
19:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] nikolas commented on pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjXcB
19:48<Samu>30 rounds scored
19:48<Samu>after 30 rounds, the best 2 AIs are neck and neck in score
19:49<Samu>then there's a gap
19:49<Samu>and after, there's 8 AIs which are really close to each other as well
19:50<Samu>then there's another gap
19:51<Samu>Oh I won't tell names
19:51<Samu>17 more rounds to score...
19:52<Samu>there are now 18 AIs below WrightAI
19:52<Samu>I consider WrightAI the line between good AI and bad AI
19:53<Samu>for no real reason, though
19:53<Samu>maybe because it was made by devs
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20:29<Hazzard>How far out will sub tropical lumber mills search for wood :s
20:35<Hazzard>damn its huge
20:37<Hazzard>20 tiles in each direction
20:41<Beerbelott>glx: Already knew the doc you pointed out... but I'm somehow struggling at resconstructing the binary chain to send for RCON client (authenticated) commands...
20:41<Beerbelott>Trying to read the code of some lib. Not an easy task.
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22:23<Eddi|zuHause>hm... so i have backups of all the partitions that used to be on the broken SSD (made before it broke), but not of the partition table... and i can't seem to make a partition table so it actually boots from this USB device
22:25-!-Beerbelott1 [~Berbe@2a01:e0a:6:8070:2141:d1fd:fa74:b23a] has joined #openttd
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22:32<Beerbelott1>It seems www.openttd.org is inaccessible
22:33<Beerbelott1>openttd.org is, redirecting to www.openttd.org w/ HTTP 301
22:34<Eddi|zuHause>works here
22:58<Beerbelott1>Tested from my server too, which sits in a remote location
22:59<Beerbelott1>* Connected to www.openttd.org (2a03:b0c0:2:d0::dc6:7001) port 80 (#0)
22:59<Beerbelott1>> GET / HTTP/1.1
22:59<Beerbelott1>> Host: www.openttd.org
22:59<Beerbelott1>> User-Agent: curl/7.52.1
22:59<Beerbelott1>> Accept: */*
22:59<Beerbelott1>>
22:59<Beerbelott1>* Recv failure: Connection reset by peer
22:59<Eddi|zuHause>does that do https?
22:59<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it's an IPv6 issue?
23:00<Eddi|zuHause>there maybe was a thing where a thing needed to be updated manually every now and then
23:00<Beerbelott1>Ahhh IPv6
23:00<Beerbelott1>Totally possible
23:00<Beerbelott1>lemme test for that
23:00<Beerbelott1>Yup
23:00<Beerbelott1>IPv4 works fine
23:01<Beerbelott1>IPv6 pb on your box
23:01<Beerbelott1>Lemme guess... Hetzner?
23:01<Eddi|zuHause>don't think so
23:01<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, there is probably nobody around who can fix it right now
23:01<Beerbelott1>OK. Often when that happens there is a correlation w/ that hoster ^^
23:02<Beerbelott1>Well, bad call there, but it's IPv6 indeed
23:02<Beerbelott1>Well, it's not "critical" I suppose
23:02<Beerbelott1>It's a lil bit weird dual-stacks don't test both version when available... DNS answers both addresses alright
23:03<Beerbelott1>OK off to bed now
23:03<Beerbelott1>C ya 'round
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23:28<+glx>yup ipv6 fails here too, probably the proxy
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23:58<reldred>right, I've finally got what I was wishing for, NRT in jgr's patch pack, I've got my custom made tree set all ready to go for that sweet sweet diferentiating folliage, I've got a few custom tweaked building sets all playing nicely together,
23:58<reldred>and do you think I can maintain attention span long enough to actually PLAY it, no.
---Logclosed Sun Jul 14 00:00:07 2019