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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-07-16

---Logopened Tue Jul 16 00:00:10 2019
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03:20<LordAro>i agree
03:24<Eddi|zuHause>i still can't make windows boot from the usb drive...
03:25<andythenorth>did anyone finish Iron Horse 2 yet?
03:26*andythenorth must pixels then
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03:27<nakki>dude expects an answer within a minute
03:27<nakki>in these morning hours
03:27<nakki>what the fuck
03:27<Eddi|zuHause>uhm... if that wasn't a rhethorical question, then i don't know anymore
03:35<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] auge8472 commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window
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04:00<@peter1138>So making my ride 48 minutes instead of 45 minutes reduces the amount of energy expended by a third.
04:01<@peter1138>Oh, 48 minutes instead of 42 minutes, oops.
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04:25<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like there's an optimization task between those
04:25<andythenorth>daily choices
04:26<andythenorth>I have been experimenting riding my bike with the power off
04:26<andythenorth>it's a bit of a dog
04:27<@peter1138>If I ride with the power off I can only go down hill.
04:28<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yeah I should aim for 45 tomorrow and see what difference that makes ;)
04:31<LordAro>peter1138: it is sometimes disappointing how little difference "putting the hammer down" makes
04:31<@peter1138>I can expend less energy by taking the 12km route instead of the 22km route.
04:31<LordAro>my route varies by 3 minutes at most
04:31<@peter1138>LordAro, that was quite a big difference, I think.
04:32<LordAro>certainly don't get to work any quicker anyway, as i just end up standing around trying to cool down
04:32<@peter1138>Ah, I see what you mean, different perspective.
04:32<@peter1138>Tons more energy for marginal gains.
04:32<@peter1138>I like expending energy, means I can eat more ;)
04:33<LordAro>i have to wait until i stop sweating
04:33<LordAro>especially in summer
04:34<LordAro>but faster is more fun :)
04:35<@peter1138>Best to save faster for the weekend rides though :-)
04:35<@peter1138>Oh lord, there's 16 Greggs doughnuts in the kitchen.
04:35<@peter1138>Quite large things.
04:36<@peter1138>Fairly sure one of them would wipe out my morning commute, heh.
04:41<@peter1138>Eh, about half of it, it turns out.
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04:50<@peter1138>I think three would be too many :p
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04:52<Eddi|zuHause>that means you can eat two? :p
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04:52<@peter1138>I might get told off :p
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05:18<LordAro>peter1138: only if you're caught
05:18<@peter1138>I got told off a few months ago for eating all the cake...
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06:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
07:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
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07:18<reldred>I should really learn how to write C
07:19*reldred proceeds to instead binge vidyagame
07:50*andythenorth can't unsee the offset failure in Iron Horse
07:50<andythenorth>thanks peter1138 :P
07:51<reldred>ahhhh, it's fun getting other road traffic in openttd, that towncars script is fun.
07:52<reldred>rip my timetables
07:52<@peter1138>You're welcome.
07:52<andythenorth>now I have to figure out why
07:52<andythenorth>I aligned the sprites with the bounding box :P
07:53<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
07:53<reldred>oh rip me indeed, bringing that high speed urban electric line up has now generated so much more traffic to go up the damn mountain
07:53<reldred><3 cargodist
07:54<andythenorth>oic, the bounding boxes don't align with the sprites :)
07:54<andythenorth>of course
07:54*andythenorth checking base set trains
07:55*andythenorth will fix Horse
07:55<reldred>I'm really enjoying iron horse btw andythenorth, those little doors open/close anims on the pax/mail carriages bring a smile to my face
07:55<andythenorth>good, effort pays off then :)
07:55<andythenorth>this BB issue explains why the Horse sprites jump as trains go round corners
07:56<reldred>Normally you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me off of NARS
07:58<andythenorth>oh the / angle doesn't have this problem
07:58<@peter1138>Hmm, nearly 1pm. I reckon that's my lunch time, then.
07:58<andythenorth>how interesting
07:58<andythenorth>yes lunch is happening now
07:58<nakki>went to an italian for lunch, was good
07:59<@peter1138>I have, um... a salad I prepared earlier. Again.
07:59<nakki>how surprising
08:09<andythenorth>salad is good
08:10<andythenorth>I might have salad
08:22<@peter1138>With tubular pasta and cheese?
08:23<andythenorth>had that
08:23<andythenorth>salad next ftw
08:24<andythenorth>not many vitamins in tubes
08:29<andythenorth>it's interesting the in-game sprite aligner supports sub-pixel alignment
08:30<andythenorth>4 increments per on-screen pixel
08:30<andythenorth>to make use of the numbers displayed, have to divide by 4
08:37<andythenorth>offsets fixed :D
08:37<andythenorth>looks better
09:24<@peter1138>Well, if you were drawing 4x sprites you'd be using the numbers as displayed, no?
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's a bit of a hack to support 4x view
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09:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM updated pull request #7608: Codechange: Performance improvement in k-d tree FindNearest()
10:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7608: Codechange: Performance improvement in k-d tree FindNearest()
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10:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
10:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7656: Bridge remove cost does not take into account road/tram/rail remove cost.
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11:40<nielsm> <- do we need more pallette options for the tile highlight? than the current white, blue, pulsing red
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13:21<Beerbelott>Wouldn't it be an idea to release versions though (a) torrent(s)?
13:21<Beerbelott>Might help offload the Web server for delivery, if that's seen as useful
13:22<nielsm>the downloads are served via CDN
13:23<nielsm>I don't know the numbers, but I'd like to believe the bandwidth costs for download delivery are insignificantly small
13:26<Beerbelott>OK then. I was prone to ask "why not" ;)
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13:28<nielsm>you can look up the transfer costs for Amazon S3, the average size of a download, and take some guesses at number of monthly downloads and see how much it adds up to
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13:58<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: there was a patch that could display two highlights per tile (inner and outer frame) in different colours
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>i believe it also added more colours
14:24<andythenorth>there's something like that in JGR
14:25<frosch123>at some point icons are better
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14:37<andythenorth>now what?
14:37<andythenorth>or blitz daily missions?
14:38<frosch123>do you like trains?
14:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns
14:48<andythenorth>blitz daily mission is 10 wins in light tanks
14:48<andythenorth>I hate light tanks
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15:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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16:02*andythenorth trains
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16:31<andythenorth>vehicles cargo is a bit unusual
16:31<andythenorth>for cargo sprites
16:32<nielsm> I think this is an extremely long-winded bug report
16:32<nielsm>not sure yet
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16:57<nielsm>okay so it's an exploit with share buying/selling and sending money to other companies
16:58<nielsm>something that would get you banned on any multiplayer server with active admins, pointless in singleplayer (you can just cheat), and how many multiplayer servers even have share buying/selling enabled?
16:59<andythenorth>he probably lives nnear me somewhere
16:59<andythenorth>it's a yogscast thing
17:01<nielsm>the best way I can think of to fix this would be to make share trading work based on fixed assets only and not cash
17:04<+michi_cc>stock exchange being an exploit? Just declare it a real world feature :p
17:04<+michi_cc>Sounds like
17:18<Beerbelott>The only way to address stock manipulation in games centered around a financial system (like Capitalism Lab) was to detect/forbig specific move based on conditions...
17:18<Beerbelott>ie a proper stock market + policies implementation
17:19<nielsm>yeah, something like you can only sell shares back to the public if the public actually would want to buy them
17:19<nielsm>i.e. the company would have to be more than a shell
17:19<Beerbelott>also forbiding in-house trading
17:19<nielsm>and its valuation must match its performance
17:20<Beerbelott>and proper stock valuation, with smoothness over time?
17:20<Beerbelott>We are entering complex new mechanisms + policies here
17:21<Beerbelott>QUite interesting, but I guess it basically means impacting the economy one way or the other :D
17:21<Beerbelott>Sth seen as on a side-track risk becoming central
17:21<Beerbelott>Is it worth it?
17:21<LordAro>could just remove it entirely
17:21<nielsm>you'd have to do things like sending money to companies is not possible, but instead you'd have to make it an investment
17:21<Beerbelott>If you make a Capitalism Lab + OpenTTD crossover, I take it! I'm 100% for! But... feasible? :D
17:22<nielsm>yeah I think the share buying mechanism is originally meant more as a way to get rid of bad AI companies
17:22<Beerbelott>LordAro: Well, as stated before it's not active by default in configuration, hence not in multiplayer
17:22<Beerbelott>Hence, multiplayer servers won't be impacted unles the feature is explicitely activated
17:22<Beerbelott>and in solo, there are cheats already
17:23<Beerbelott>nielsm pointed that out
17:24<nielsm>full RRT2 economy with players and companies separated, companies are founded with investment capital and/or bonds
17:24<Beerbelott>It might be seen as annoying, but in the end who cares? If you wanna have plenty of money... good for you... that's not where the fun is?
17:24<nielsm>and you can get more funding by selling more bonds or trying to offer more shares for sale
17:24<Beerbelott>On servers where it is active and value/monye matters, I suppose moderation has to be there to make sure people don't troll already
17:25<Beerbelott>there are tons of ways to be 1st already... by trolling others
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17:25<Beerbelott>It's kinda painless money-generating too, as money comes fro mthin air
17:26<Beerbelott>Even if you use another company to generate money, if you make sure leaving it in the state you found it (w/ same sum in bank account=, you gave yourself some money, hindered no-one... so business as usual?
17:26<Beerbelott>You got yourself some money, which is not where the fun lies. Yes, you can build... but I guess you'll get bored of it if you relaly wanna play
17:27<Beerbelott>I don't see this thing as being that big, from server moderation point of view, as longs as there are no serious leaderboards involved
17:29<nielsm>so yeah I agree with the ancient bug report
17:29<nielsm>leave it be, servers should be running with shares trading disabled
17:30<nielsm>and I should have gone to bed an hour ago
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21:14<Corns[m]>Idea: when opening the multiplayer server browser, automatically smack the Find Servers button
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 17 00:00:11 2019