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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-07-27

---Logopened Sat Jul 27 00:00:26 2019
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02:37<LordAro>it's very wet outside
02:41<@peter1138>It's damp but not currently raining.
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03:36<andythenorth>why is there so much latency on the buttons for max map height cheat ?
03:37<andythenorth>it's about 1s on 1.9.1 and 2s with the fix applied from 7669
03:38<andythenorth>(latency is from mousedown to button triggering)
03:46<LordAro>i can't imagine it would change significantly with the #7669 change
03:46<LordAro>there is a noticable delay for me though
03:46<LordAro>probably dependent on what clicking the button is actually doing
03:47<LordAro> probably that
03:47<nielsm>that seems plausible
03:48<nielsm>so yes if you want to change it, click the number and type in a new one :
03:48<LordAro>why is reloading grf data necessary?
03:48<nielsm>I think it's a grf parameter and the grf may change behaviour based on it?
03:48<nielsm>on the top level too
03:49<andythenorth>it's a weird cheat
03:49<nielsm>it seems very much like a thing that should be scenario editor only
03:49<LordAro>well there's a reason it's a cheat :p
03:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7669: Fix #7655: Decrease buttons in cheat window do not work properly
03:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date
03:50<andythenorth>nice fix
03:51<LordAro>does #7635 seem like a hacky workaround to anyone else?
03:51*andythenorth testing SDL 2 PR
03:52<andythenorth>given that ottd mac performance is currently weirdly variable, not sure I can give meaningful feedback on SDL 2 :)
03:52<andythenorth>but it compiles and runs
03:53<nielsm>well if you can make a mac build with sdl video driver that may shed some light on whether it's the cocoa driver that causes the performance issues
03:53<andythenorth>I should video record how odd it is
03:54<nielsm>since the sdl driver does do several things different
03:54<andythenorth>and the strange behaviour where opening a news message window restores performance
03:54<andythenorth>which I thought was co-incidence, but is entirely reproducible
03:55<nielsm>is it possible it's related to the real-time vs game ticks split?
03:55<andythenorth>I could video record 1.9.1 running on ffwd in the corner of the map too
03:56<andythenorth>it's never less than 3000fps
03:56<andythenorth>and peaking at 9999fps
03:56<andythenorth>CPU use is about 80% of one thread unit
03:56<andythenorth>auto-save barely affects it
03:56<nielsm>ffwd should usually max out one core
03:57*andythenorth builds master for comparison
03:58<LordAro>shouldn't need to build master, just run with the other video drivers
03:58<andythenorth>I have some other patches applied, so I want a clean master :)
04:01<andythenorth>by comparison, current master running on ffwd
04:01<andythenorth>is stable around 70-80fps
04:04<andythenorth>interestingly it's only pegging CPU thread unit at 60%
04:04<andythenorth>playing actual games recently, CPU will often rise to 100% during normal gameplay without ffwd
04:05<andythenorth>on much older mac systems (early i7) it used to be around 30-40%, and more recently it is usually around 60%
04:07<andythenorth>so for this stable 70-80fps result
04:07<andythenorth>opening a news window will cause the simulation rate to spike to 3000-7000fps
04:07<andythenorth>then settle back around 300-400fps
04:08<andythenorth>closing the news window, it drops back to the stable 70-80fps
04:08<andythenorth>I should live stream on twitch or something :P
04:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6666: Town name list in Arabic
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04:41<LordAro>i've reopened #6666
04:43<LordAro>there's no way i can test for it on my linux install, i don't have RTL support :)
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05:07<Wolf01><LordAro> it's very wet outside <- I've seen frogs and fishes swimming in air, but as soon as I tried to take a picture they fled
05:48<Wolf01>So, F is the most played game I have in my library (excluding idle clicker games), with about 150 hours more than the second one
06:01*andythenorth reads about F again
06:01<andythenorth>mostly the cargo chains :P
06:01<Wolf01>Now lunch and then I'll put another bunch of hours into F :P
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>i still didn't get sparked by F
06:02<andythenorth>me neither
06:02<Samu>anyone review my PR #7661 yet?
06:03<Samu>if that goes through, it makes some of my other PRs unneeded
06:03<Samu>in a good way
06:05<Samu>#7515 and #7486 become pointless
06:06<Samu>stuff involving "start_date"
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06:06<Samu>there's another one, already in master, that could also be reverted
06:07<Samu>let me find
06:08<Samu>this one
06:10<Samu>some of peter1138 commits as well, involving "start_date" workarounds
06:11<Samu>but #7661 does take care of them
06:11<Samu>removes his workarounds
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>highest game i have is 2000 hours, and 2nd highest 700
06:13<LordAro>very good
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>(eu4 and stellaris)
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>then it flattens out at about 150 hours for most games
06:14<Samu>oh, commit 1 of #7486 still needed, only 2 and 3 are not
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>and then there's single-playthrough games with 4-10 hours
06:14<Samu>my bad
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>and then there's "haven't really gotten around to it" games...
06:30<Arveen>hmm, trying to download the latest nightly gives me a nginx gateway timeout
06:30<LordAro>which version?
06:31<LordAro>sorry, which type of download, i mean
06:31<Arveen>type ?
06:31<LordAro>which download did you select?
06:31<Arveen>the win64 binary
06:32<LordAro> works fine for me
06:32<Arveen>i get an "504 Gateway Time-out" after like 20 seconds waiting
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>probably a bad mirror
06:32<LordAro>has ipv6 broken again?
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>or that
06:33<LordAro>are the mirrors even used anymore? i thought it was all on AWS
06:34<LordAro>yeah, ipv6 again
06:34<Arveen>i'm trying via ipv4
06:34<LordAro>tried from my vps - curl <foo> 504 timeout, curl -4 <foo> works
06:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
06:36<Arveen>and now it works - weird heh
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06:37<LordAro>now i've got a 504 with ipv4...
06:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
06:39<LordAro>is AWS having issues, i wonder?
06:39<LordAro>status page says everything is fine, but those are usually meaningless anyway
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06:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>so... it's somewhat like "broken mirror" after all?
07:15<LordAro>somewhat, yes
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>why do some "games" in steam not have the entry for "assign categories"?
07:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>ah... it doesn't show up in the right click menu, but there's another entry on the right of the "game" description page which has it
07:57<Wolf01>Maybe they are starting the upgrade to auto-category as they have announced?
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08:15<Samu>nerf trains
08:15<Samu>make them crashing road vehicles to also crash them
08:15<Samu>or at least have a chance to crash
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08:36<andythenorth>croque monsieur?
08:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
08:44<Samu> lol, those comments are obvious bots
08:49<Samu>"literal Enigma cover band."..
08:50<Samu>Delerium came first
08:50<Samu>but k... ppl are stupid
08:50<LordAro>Samu: your mistake is reading youtube comments at all
08:53<Samu>Enigma is a German musical project founded in 1990 by Romanian-German musician and producer Michael Cretu.[1]
08:54<Samu>Delerium is a Canadian New Age ambient electronic musical duo that formed in 1987, originally as a side project of the influential industrial music act Front Line Assembly.[1]
08:55<Samu>Michael Cretu is barely german... that wikipedia stinks a bit
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09:03<Eddi|zuHause>"1975 erhielt Cretu die deutsche Staatsbürgerschaft." how does that "stink"?
09:07*andythenorth is very confused
09:08<Samu>decided to make a living in germany, doesn't stop him from being romanian
09:08<andythenorth>I am listening to Scorpions
09:08<andythenorth>and I thought you were calling them an Enigma cover band
09:09<andythenorth>even though you have no way of knowing I'm listening to them
09:09*andythenorth needs more sleep, I have delerium :P
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: says here, his mother was austrian, and he was allowed to leave romania on account of being "stateless"... that's a very weak argument for being "pure romanian"
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>so, for all that i am concerned, he is a german that happened to be born in romania.
09:14<Samu>ok, I see
09:15<Samu>i never understand these ppl that are born or grow in every places
09:16<Samu>for me, where they are born is where they're from
09:21<Samu>Enigma has very few darker tracks
09:25<Samu> - last album of Delerium
09:25<Samu> - last album of Enigma
09:26<Samu>came out in the same year, probably same month?
09:26<Samu>must investigate
09:27<Samu>The Fall of a Rebel Angel - 11 November 2016
09:28<Samu>Mythologie - 23 September 2016
10:04<Samu>Cretu was born on 18 May 1957 in Bucharest, Socialist Republic of Romania, to a Romanian father and Austrian mother.
10:04<Samu>Wilhelm Anton "Bill" Leeb (born 21 September 1966,[2] Vienna, Austria) is an Austrian-Canadian
10:04<Samu>okay, they're both Austrians then
10:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
10:10<andythenorth>is it nap time?
10:17<Arveen>it's pizza time over here
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>ok, how alarming are these parameters "--ppapi-flash-path=./pepflashplayer.dll --disable-web-security"?
10:43<Samu>flash is bad
10:43<Samu>i knew flash was already bad while ppl were still praising it :o
10:45<andythenorth>I miss flash
10:46<andythenorth>it was so useful
10:46<Samu>it didn't scale properly, and when it did, it was slow
10:46<andythenorth>it sucked for many reasons
10:46<andythenorth>but it was so capable
10:47<Samu>i still remember flash being the cause of my system losing sound
10:49<Samu>can't remember, but I complained often here about it
10:49<Samu>thinking it was openttd
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10:50<Samu>and in the end... it was the audio part of drm videos causing issues with windows audiomixer thing
10:51<Samu>causing 100% use of a thread
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10:51<Samu>and then completely muting the system
10:52<Samu>playing midis on openttd was building up some congestioned audio buffer
10:52<Samu>and boom, it was either playing distorted, or after a few hours, muted
10:54<Samu>ah, i remember the name: “Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation”
10:55<Samu>always 100% usage
10:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jcoletto77 commented on issue #6407: railtype - depot - snow
10:56<snail_UES_>I’m now having depots with snow on the roof, and this issue ^^^ is really getting in the way
10:58<LordAro>stalebot closed issue, i've reopened
10:58<LordAro>not that that necessarily means anything
10:58<snail_UES_>thanks… hopefully increases the chance some good soul might look into this :)
11:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
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11:33<andythenorth>ha ha
11:33<andythenorth>just clipped 38mph on my bike
11:34<andythenorth>moderately scary
11:37<Wolf01>Is it scary because you were saying it here while doing it?
11:38<andythenorth>it's scary because it was on a small road with steep hedges and tight bends
11:40<andythenorth>and also to read the speed I had to look at the speedo not the road
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i'm having serious performance problems in civ6 while it maxes out at like 15% CPU
11:46<snail_UES_>when I was younger I’d regularly hit 80 km/h on my bike on a mountain downhill road :p
11:46<snail_UES_>paved though...
11:46<andythenorth>that's terrifying also
11:46<andythenorth>the time to react to error is non-existent
11:47<snail_UES_>yeah but when you’re in your teens it just feels fun to you
11:47<snail_UES_>seen in retrospect, yes, it’s terrifying...
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>i've never had a speedometer on a bike
11:52<andythenorth>@calc (365 + 355)/2
11:52<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 360
11:52<andythenorth>if that was 357, Iron Horse 2 would be one train every 2 days since starting
11:52<andythenorth>@357 / 360
11:53<andythenorth>@calc 357 / 360
11:53<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.991666666667
11:53*andythenorth will round it :P
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13:25<Samu>road vehicle at 139 ms all of a sudden, something's not right
13:28<snail_UES_>I’m drawing tracks with ballast covered with snow, for lines above the snowline
13:28<snail_UES_>problem is… they show up as covered with snow even inside of a depot…
13:29<snail_UES_>I wonder if there’s a flag for tracks to know whether they’re inside of a depot or not?
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13:31<Samu>i switched to YAPF, and road vehicle ticks decreased to 30 ms
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13:31<Samu>I mean, to NPF
13:32<Samu>something's wrong with YAPF
13:34<Samu>gonna post savegame
13:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF
13:42<Samu>for some reason my github session was "logged in", this shouldn't be
13:42<Samu>this isn't my pc
13:43<Samu>must logout manually? kinda sucks
13:45<andythenorth>Horse 99%
13:57<Samu>looks like the company affected is that of Terron
13:57<Samu>Company 4 killed and ms went all the way down to 16 ms
13:58<andythenorth>last 1% ever be done?
13:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF
13:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF
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14:00<andythenorth>eddi has abandoned us :(
14:01<Samu>i dont think my build has a savegame version bump
14:01<Samu>let me see
14:04<LordAro>Samu: your branch certainly does, though i don't believe it requires it
14:06<Samu>oh, it does, but for no reason, lol
14:06<Samu>ah, the reason
14:06<Samu>it is saved as a game setting
14:06<Samu>sorry bout that
14:08<Samu>can't u force load the save? :(
14:08<Samu>oh boy, how am i gonna reproduce this now...
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>i hereby declare this GPU deceased after long sickness
14:29<Wolf01>Heh, condolences, I lost mine some time ago :P
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>problem is, my only available replacement GPU for now doesn't let me play half the games at all, because they refuse to start
14:33<Wolf01>Lucky, at least you have a replacement one
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, technically two, as i have an onboard one as well
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>which is even older
14:34<Wolf01>Good timing to get a RTX one :P
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>"OpenGL version string: 3.1 Mesa 19.1.2" <-- my other one had 4.5 support, and it's just one generation ahead :/
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>i plan on getting a complete new PC soon (tm)
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>but until then... what should i do?
14:35<Wolf01>Play OTTD
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14:40<andythenorth>play 2048 on tablet
14:41<Samu>how to hack savegame?
14:41<Samu>force load it or something
14:41<LordAro>Samu: you cannot
14:42<Samu>hmm what can I do
14:42<LordAro>make a new save
14:42<LordAro>you already know Terron has a big effect
14:42<Samu>terron was the affected one
14:42<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you could draw this for Horse? o_O
14:43<andythenorth>on-board graphics will be fine for drawing pixels
14:43<Samu>ok gonna download latest nightly
14:46<Wolf01>Hmm, 4th thunderstorm today
14:54<Arveen>forecast says heavy thunderstorms - it's not even raining outside all day, heh
14:55<Wolf01>Today was like: sun (damp) thunderstorm sun (damp) thunderstorm sun (damp) thunderstorm dusk thunderstorm
14:56<Wolf01>And it's raining piss :|
14:57<Arveen>at least it's only 25c and not 41c like before
14:57<Wolf01>Here is not changed much
14:58<Arveen>i was really hoping for some rain so i don't have to water all my plants in the garden again
14:58<Wolf01>It says 21°C, other days were 26°C at this time, during the day it was 31/33°C
14:59<LordAro>been 18C & raining today, down from 35C on thursday
14:59<LordAro>it's lovely
14:59<Samu>arf... i already miss auto-ops feature
15:00<Samu>gonna set to 500 on master version
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15:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone opened pull request #7671: Fix #6407: Show snowy ground sprites for depots
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm, according to i should have OpenGL 4.2 support
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>ah no...
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>too many footnotes
15:27<andythenorth>snail_UES_: ^^
15:31<andythenorth>hmm, do we have any modifier keys besides ctrl and shift?
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm, there's a MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE, what could possibly go wrong?
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15:40<Eddi|zuHause>ok... it seems to at least start :)
15:43<Samu>terron wasn't even with 500 road vehs
15:44<Samu>had 388
15:45<Samu>@calc 500*9 + 150 + 380
15:45<@DorpsGek>Samu: 5030
15:45<Samu>there were 5030 road vehicles in the map
15:45<Samu>more or less
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16:03<Samu>oh, the other change is the custom difficulty
16:03<Samu>but that doesn't require savegame conversion
16:04<Samu>neither of the 2 changes would require savegame conversion, but the ai_start_delay needed to be saved
16:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7671: Fix #6407: Show snowy ground sprites for depots
16:06<Samu>start_date being gone from scripts cause loading saves where the setting was in, to be discarded on load, no errors or issues spawn from it
16:12<Samu>i don't know of any script that would actually require the start_date parameter to run
16:12<Samu>what are the chances someone used it?
16:22<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7671: Fix #6407: Show snowy ground sprites for depots
16:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF
16:32<Samu>James103 uses irc?
16:32<Samu>you here?
16:33<LordAro>not afaik
16:33<Samu>i have a different idea, gonna load my savegame and stop terron vehicles 1 by 1
16:34<Samu>maybe I can see what the problem is like, I expect it to be 1 road vehicles causing that spike
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16:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jcoletto77 commented on pull request #7671: Fix #6407: Show snowy ground sprites for depots
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16:47<Samu>i stop a road vehicle and ms decreases 40 ms
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16:51<Samu>seems to be that the cache? doesn't update when bridges are demolished?
16:52<LordAro>that is interesting
16:52<LordAro>it needs a concrete example though, preferrably without relying on an AI
16:52<Samu>the road vehicles are trying to move towards a tile that is missing road, presumably it was a bridge
16:52<Samu>but its stuck there
16:52<LordAro>sounds like a good guess though
16:53<Samu>stopped one of the vehicles and gained 40 ms :o
16:53<Samu>ok, gonna see if this is the problem
17:02<Samu>i pinpoint to this
17:03<Samu>the vehicles at the top near the rail, with a bridge on the other side and the vehicles at the south, near the trees, also with a bridge at the other side
17:03<Samu>i find strange that south bridge being there unconnected to the road
17:03<Samu>and the bridge even belongs to the town
17:04<Samu>how did that came to be
17:09<andythenorth>front of this is challenging in pixels
17:12<Samu>tried to reproduce, i can't
17:12<Samu>best i can do is hope it happens again
17:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
17:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed issue #93: IPv6 broken again
17:17<Samu>lol, i build 2 road tiles crossing the rail and instant 16 ms
17:17<Samu>the problem is definitely here
17:17<LordAro>TB to the rescue again
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17:18<Samu>too bad I can't provide this savegame
17:23<Samu>okay, there's grey using this road too
17:24<Samu>that's LuDiAI, the original, so i know that code well, it doesn't remove roads
17:24<Samu>terron apparently does
17:24<Samu>must have tried to remove the roads where vehicles crashed
17:24<Samu>to build a bridge over
17:24<Samu>at least some AIs do this when they crash vs trains
17:25<Samu>must have been waiting for the vehicles to disperse
17:26<Samu>that didn't happen
17:26<Samu>they got stuck there
17:26<Samu>eating 115 ms ticks :p
17:27<Samu>the other AI is choochoo, but got no buses there atm
17:27<LordAro>Samu: i can't reproduce anything by deleting a road vehicle bridge manually
17:28<Samu>there's a big network of roads before that rail and another after that rail
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17:29<Samu>dont have time to see this now
17:29<Samu>but tomorrow will see how big is the road network
17:29<Samu>take care
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17:38<andythenorth>black engine front?
17:38<andythenorth>or keep working on the (more realistic) CC front
17:40<LordAro>i like v1
17:41<andythenorth>me too
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17:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7652: Fix #7635: Game crash on exit scenario editor.
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21:37<Eddi|zuHause>ok, i definitely can't play astroneer with this... where i previously got 40FPS on the titlescreen, i can't even get 1FPS
21:41<Eddi|zuHause>(no idea why, shouldn't be that much of a difference between the two cards)
22:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas opened issue #7672: Crash when opening Game Options
22:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
22:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MingweiSamuel commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 28 00:00:27 2019