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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-08-02

---Logopened Fri Aug 02 00:00:35 2019
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01:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7678: Crash on loading saved game from #4397 https://git.io/fj9wZ
01:14<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7646: Random map generation failure crashes the game (dedicated server). https://git.io/fj9wn
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02:42<andythenorth>yo
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03:19<LordAro>someone should really look at some of these savegames
03:20<LordAro>apparently there are a lot of them
03:29<andythenorth>'someone should really' is a common thing :)
03:29<andythenorth>I noticed the same though
03:29<andythenorth>variation between master and stable?
03:29<andythenorth>or did I misunderstand the reports?
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03:34<LordAro>andythenorth: i do say it a lot, for sure :p
03:34<LordAro>time tho :(
03:35<andythenorth>oof
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03:50<LordAro>not like i have the "family" excuse either
03:53<andythenorth>grinding savegames does not appeal much to me :P
03:54<andythenorth>@calc 357*2000
03:54<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 714000
03:54<andythenorth>turns out I'll happilly grind 714k pixels :P
03:54<andythenorth>probably more like 1m, all in
03:55<andythenorth>that's like 1m clicks, my trackpad is getting well-used
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04:24<Samu>what's the fastest sort in number of operations?
04:25<Samu>for pathfinder purposes/script opcode
04:25<Samu>s
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04:38<andythenorth>is Firefox over?
04:38<andythenorth>it really just doesn't work
04:39<andythenorth>I constantly have to quit it due to non-responsive windows
04:41<arikover>It may be OS-related: I'm not experiencing such problems at the moment (Ubu 18.04)
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04:42<andythenorth>might be the Mac build only
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04:48<arikover>Surely you already tried every fix in the book already?
04:49<andythenorth>I have not tried any
04:49<andythenorth>it's all BS
04:49<arikover>oh.
04:49<andythenorth>'reset to factory defaults' all that crap
04:50*andythenorth deletes the only two extensions installed
04:51<andythenorth>FF is a turkey, I only use it to segregate certain logged in services from general browsing
04:51<andythenorth>Chrome for general internet
04:51<andythenorth>Safari for web dev :P
04:51<andythenorth>but ha ha, IE will be available for Mac soon (again)
04:52<arikover>Well now you just have to wait for IE, I guess...
04:53<andythenorth>looks like dev build is available
04:53<andythenorth>hmm time to go to office
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05:39<Samu>how do I make my save data be compatible with an earlier version of my AI?
05:39<Samu>because it is
05:39<Samu>but it doesn't want to load it
05:40<Samu>i have AI version 12, it saves data as version 12, and it won't load on version 11, even though I know it is compatible
05:40<Samu>how do I force load?
06:05<sergei_>Hi guys! What AI would you recommend?
06:06<sergei_>for play with trains
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06:48<Samu>not mine
06:49<Samu>no trains in it
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07:50<@planetmaker>@logs
07:50<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
08:20<andythenorth>hmm
08:20<andythenorth>I am using animated red-black pixel for rear lights on trains
08:21<andythenorth>that's not going to work eh
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>depends on your definition of "work"
08:24<andythenorth>well for [unknow proportion] of player base, full animation needs to be off
08:24<andythenorth>which leads to the pixel being frequently invisible
08:25<andythenorth>'work' ?
08:25<@planetmaker>why... would they be invisible for those?
08:25<@planetmaker>as in not changinge colour? I guess that's the definition of "animation on/off"
08:26<andythenorth>they frequently get stuck on the black part of the cycle
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>so, you want it to be blinking, but fear that for some people who have animation off, it'll be in the "black" state?
08:26<@planetmaker>with animation=off I'm not concerned about that
08:26<andythenorth>yes
08:26<andythenorth>mostly I don't see them, because I can't use full animation
08:26<andythenorth>so I was shipping bugs for months
08:27<andythenorth>maybe I animate them myself
08:27<@planetmaker>animation not happening with animation=off sounds like "works as designed"
08:27<andythenorth>yes, my point is, should I no use it
08:27<andythenorth>not *
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>there's two red blinking cycles, so try the other one?
08:27<andythenorth>I only know of one, the crossing cycle
08:27<andythenorth>there's the fire cycle also
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>but there's two crossing lights that alternate, or not?
08:28<Samu>creating a list of vehicles that go to a station can be too slow when there are already too many vehicles in the world
08:28<@planetmaker>I don't think so @ eddi
08:28<andythenorth>they are drawn one starting on black, one on red
08:28<Samu>as slow as spike burst stalls
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, use the one that starts on red
08:29<andythenorth>ok so this is a problem local to me
08:29<@planetmaker>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates#Palettes <-- I see one...?
08:29<andythenorth>I frequently turn animation on and off for $valid reasons
08:29<andythenorth>most players probably don't
08:29<Samu>noticeable for example with 15 AIs
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: "red cycle" clearly points to two entries there
08:31<@planetmaker>yes... two colours. _You say each pixel there is a separate cycle?
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes
08:31<andythenorth>strictly yes
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>one is red/black and one is black/red
08:31<andythenorth>they're timed differently, two cycles
08:31<@planetmaker>and as in we have 7 fire cycles
08:31<andythenorth>strictly yes
08:31<@planetmaker>with that definition...yes
08:31<andythenorth>natural confusion
08:31<andythenorth>semantics :P
08:32<andythenorth>I won't animate them myself :D
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>why are they animated rear lights in the first place?
08:33<andythenorth>'realism'
08:33<andythenorth>for certain cases, not others
08:33<andythenorth>and because I could :P
08:33<@planetmaker>trains I see passing have no blinking rear lights :)
08:33<andythenorth>I could just use solid red
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, which real case are you modelling?
08:33<andythenorth>US / UK non-built-in rear lights from about 1970,
08:33<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, drunk driver hitting switches randomly :P
08:34<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-train_device
08:34<andythenorth>but it could easily just be solid red
08:36*andythenorth uses paint bucket
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>but, back to your "animation off" problem, i think it should be solvable by using the other palette entry
08:37<andythenorth>I do :)
08:37<andythenorth>it should be solid red with animation off
08:37<andythenorth>it's just frequently not
08:37<andythenorth>but that's local to me
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>it'll only be a problem if you switch it on and off
08:38<andythenorth>yes
08:41<andythenorth>thanks
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10:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm, my garbage trucks create a huge pile of traffic jam
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>... and i can't solve it until the landfills have been cleared out
10:47<andythenorth>oof
10:47<andythenorth>my peasants in Warcraft kept getting stuck
10:47<andythenorth>I had to destroy town buildings for them
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>why hasn't there been a warcraft 4?
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11:09<andythenorth>https://www.gamingscan.com/warcraft-4-release-date-news-and-rumors/
11:09<andythenorth>LMGTFY :)
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11:46<Eddi|zuHause>i was just thinking "they probably just make a remake of 3"
11:47<Samu>my AI is now valuatorless
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>so... i built a freight port... and it immediately can't handle the amount of trucks trying to come in
11:52<Samu>just finished codechanging this to not use valuators, I'm unsure if I like the results yet, must test.
12:11<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: sounds like OpenTTD
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>worse...
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>i now upgraded to 3 ports, maybe it'll distribute them, or just spawn more trucks
12:26<Samu>I'm already thinking of my next AI tournament
12:27<Samu>in groups of insert a big number up to 15 AIs will fight in the same map
12:27<Samu>only one will stand out
12:27<Samu>i'm not sure yet for how long I will run it
12:29<Samu>probably will be in groups of 12, since there's 48 AIs
12:29<Samu>too bad I can't setup 48 AIs :(
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12:33<Samu>my AI frametime is less spiky, but the average ms have increased
12:34<Samu>the AI also feels delayed
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12:36<Samu>at least the max ops is not decreasing all the way down to 500
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12:36<Samu>spikes would do that
12:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] James103 opened issue #96: www.openttd.org always shows https://git.io/fj9Sd
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>bot broken?
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>ah no, title was broken
12:58<Samu>will variable max ops be a thing in openttd?
12:59<Samu>the variation is cpu dependant
12:59<Samu>but makes things irreproducible
13:00<Samu>due to that
13:01<Samu>aww snap, got 500 max ops just now, t.t
13:03<Samu>the damn thing is over sensitive, decrease adjustments are too sharp
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13:06<Samu>this is a situation where I need my system to find out what's taking too much time
13:06<Samu>my computer :(
13:07<acklen>you need a server farm
13:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fj99c
13:11<Samu>141 days needed to pathfind with 28 tries
13:11<Samu>considering there's 15 AIs, this ain't bad
13:12<Samu>the default 10000 would probably take longer
13:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on issue #96: www.openttd.org always shows "Login" instead of "Logout (account name)" https://git.io/fj995
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13:39<Samu>i had an idea
13:41<Samu>a button or hotkey to hide all open windows, to peak at the main world
13:41<Samu>pressing it again, brings all windows back to their exact place
13:42<Samu>some sort of "peak desktop" for openttd
13:44<Samu>this monitor is just too small for my liking
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14:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing https://git.io/fj9H8
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14:59<andythenorth>is cat?
15:00<Arveen>is MROW
15:02<LordAro>is caterpillar
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15:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7677: Fix #7672: more than 32 resolutions may be available https://git.io/fj9QZ
15:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7677: Fix #7672: more than 32 resolutions may be available https://git.io/fj9Bj
15:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7672: Crash when opening Game Options https://git.io/fjyKl
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15:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
15:23<Samu>jesus this cpu is really bad, compared to mine... https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-Celeron-E1400-vs-AMD-FX-8150-Eight-Core/674vs263
15:24<Samu>didn't expect single-thread performance to be worse than mine
15:25<milek7>why? it's old celeron
15:25<+glx>of course a celeron is bad
15:26<+glx>it was already bad when it appeared IIRC :)
15:31<Samu>https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-Celeron-E1400-vs-AMD-Athlon-XP-2700+/674vs229
15:31<Samu>wow, it's really bad
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15:36<LordAro>it's over 10 years old
15:36<LordAro>and yes, it was the bargin basement of intel CPUs when it was released
15:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7658: Add: 'getsysdate' console command https://git.io/fj9QK
15:39<andythenorth>is it as bad as mine?
15:39<andythenorth>I can get OpenTTD to use 98% of CPU whilst paused
15:39<andythenorth>it ran my battery flat in about 40 minutes this morning :P
15:40<+glx>98% of CPU just to refresh the screen ?
15:40<+glx>something is weird
15:41<andythenorth>actually I exaggerate
15:41<andythenorth>it's only 49% of CPU whilst paused
15:41<andythenorth>time to buy a new laptop?
15:42<andythenorth>it's 98% if I unpause, and put the map in the corner
15:43<andythenorth>do we need to drop support for older hardware?
15:44<milek7>btw. is that rate counter out of range or something? ;P
15:44<milek7>https://i.imgur.com/Kwk3Jnp.png
15:45<andythenorth>it can be topped out
15:46<+glx>and these high values in fast forward are not really relevant ;)
15:46<+glx>it's more important to have the "right" values at normal speed
15:47<+glx>~33fps
15:47<andythenorth>I'd just like my battery back :P
15:47<andythenorth>and yes 33fps would be nice
15:47<andythenorth>16fps is a bit laggy
15:48<andythenorth>but my laptop is is getting old
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16:00<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #96: www.openttd.org always shows "Login" instead of "Logout (account name)" https://git.io/fj9Q9
16:04<Samu>openttd needs a benchmark :p
16:09<Samu>oh such a tiny window
16:10<Samu>milek7:
16:12<milek7>yeah, it isn't that fast on fullscreen ;)
16:12<Samu>https://imgur.com/undefined
16:12<Samu>https://imgur.com/lACkN5g
16:12<Samu>lel
16:14<milek7>speaking of benchmarks, i have 15fps on wentbourne.sav ;P
16:14<Samu>AI manages stable 10000 on trashy celeron
16:14<Samu>15 instances
16:16<+glx>wentbourne doesn't count I think
16:17<Samu>let me open wentbourne.save
16:18<andythenorth>are we testing recent master here, or 1.9.x?
16:18<andythenorth>and debug builds, or prod?
16:19<milek7>prod
16:19<andythenorth>ok, so with master, I can get 20fps
16:20<andythenorth>and 20fps on ffwd
16:20<andythenorth>map size is 64x64
16:20<andythenorth>no vehicles, no AI
16:20<Samu>that is some bad system
16:21<andythenorth>yes
16:21<andythenorth>it's from like 2018
16:21<andythenorth>so it's really old
16:21<Samu>2018, 1 year old?
16:21<andythenorth>yes
16:21<+glx>for a mac yes
16:21<+glx>it's old when new ;)
16:21<andythenorth>yes
16:22<andythenorth>it's a crap chip
16:22<+glx>but always expensive
16:22<+glx>because there's an apple on it
16:22<andythenorth>https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-8559U+%40+2.70GHz&id=3302
16:23<andythenorth>value for money 0
16:23<andythenorth>and not good enough to run OpenTTD
16:24<andythenorth>if I turn off full animation, the same map gets about 33fps
16:24<andythenorth>and about 300-400fps on ffwd
16:25<+glx>https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-6100+Six-Core&id=257
16:25<+glx>that's mine
16:25<Samu>wentbourne.sav gets 4.9 - 5 fps
16:26<Samu>(0.15x)
16:26<milek7>mine is https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600&id=3481
16:26<andythenorth>with 1.9.1 the same map gets about 16fps
16:26<Samu>oh, but im on my custom build
16:26<andythenorth>ffwd gets on 1.9.1 gets about 100-200fps
16:27<andythenorth>if I turn off full animation, the same map gets about 33fps
16:27<+glx>IIRC the cpu is not the main issue on OSX :)
16:27<andythenorth>ffwd gets around 2k fps
16:27<+glx>there's something weird with the screen drawing
16:27<andythenorth>so 1.9.1 is slower to draw full animation, at normal speed
16:27<andythenorth>than master
16:27<andythenorth>but runs ffwd much much faster
16:28<andythenorth>and generally holds up frame rates in normal game play with animation off
16:28<andythenorth>whereas master drops to 15-16fps in gameplay
16:28<andythenorth>it's all lolz :)
16:31<milek7>maybe try to bisect it?
16:31<andythenorth>I will once I've finished Iron Horse 2 beta
16:31<andythenorth>2 trains left to draw :P
16:32<+glx>until you add more trains ;)
16:33<andythenorth>that's 2.1
16:33<andythenorth>:P
16:33<andythenorth>there are rules
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16:38<Samu>test my build, https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=85608
16:38<Samu>someone
16:38<Samu>only 5 downloads, 1 was me :(
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16:40<milek7>Samu: i managed to find even slower cpu ;)
16:40<milek7>https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+N450+%40+1.66GHz&id=618
16:41<milek7>60fps on ffwd on fresh map
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16:54<Samu>animation disabled?
16:55<Samu>test my build on that with some AI(s)
16:55<Samu>look at those max ops if you can
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16:57<Samu>oh, dont tell me that's a 32-bit cpu
17:00<milek7>yes, it's on 32 bit OS
17:00<Samu>crap :(
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17:01<Samu>build it yourself https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:SamuPatchPackRebase?expand=1#commits_bucket
17:02<Samu>I don't know why Alberth commit got there
17:02<Samu>but whatever
17:07<milek7>it would take ages ;)
17:07<milek7>i can test something on my ryzen later
17:08<Samu>cool, thx
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18:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i'm 3/4 building a cloverleaf, and debating whether i should do the 4th leaf or do a half-direct turn instead
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18:40<Eddi|zuHause>not that building a cloverleaf in C:S is difficult enough as it is
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19:13<arikover>/quit7
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 03 00:00:36 2019