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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-08-16

---Logopened Fri Aug 16 00:00:55 2019
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01:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] AbeWJS commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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02:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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03:58<andythenorth>so what about a FIRS economy where some industries only appear if built by player?
04:00<andythenorth>I think it might just cause bug reports :P
04:00<andythenorth>like when I had industries with random cargos
04:01<Samu>shall I create an issue for this
04:03<LordAro>Samu: sre
04:07<@planetmaker>LordAro, you now take-on the lead in organizing the challenge or competition? >:)
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04:17<Samu>the quadratic stuff wasn't applied to company headquarters
04:17<Samu>quadratic/linear thingy
04:18<Samu>not sure if it should
04:26<andythenorth>cargo label for chromite ore?
04:28<andythenorth>already got FECR for ferrochrome
04:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7697: GetCargoProduction on Company HQ returns 0 for PASS/MAIL, but on TileLoop it does produce cargo
04:33<Samu>steps to reproduce, meh, I didn't reproduced, I just looked at the code
04:47<andythenorth>copper concentrate
04:48<Samu>why not use lower case
04:48<Samu>or symbols
04:48<Samu>or number
04:49<Samu>CO_1 I meant
04:49<andythenorth>convention is upper case
04:51<Wolf01>It's always best to use the element chemical symbol
04:51*andythenorth is running out of industry IDs
04:52<Samu>some AI libraries use numbers and lower case chars, and they work
05:02<Samu>hmm my AI is overly aggressive with advertising campaigns
05:03<Samu>I wonder if it's worth it
05:03<Samu>it has best profits atm
05:03<Samu>but the advertisings, don't make it grow in company value
05:04<Samu>I have to consider something more than just stations with rating below 50
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05:10<Samu>cargo waiting at the station perhaps
05:10<Samu>if it's too high, no need to advertise
05:10<Samu>yeah, that might be it
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05:20<Eddi|zuHause>copper concentrate is when you squeeze out all the water?
05:22<andythenorth>copper tends to be in low-grade rock
05:22<andythenorth>it's concentrated before any long-distance transport
05:22<andythenorth>ammonia: AMMO, or NH3_ ?
05:23<Eddi|zuHause>AMMO might lead to some confusion
05:24<Eddi|zuHause>no clue
05:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
06:01<Samu>AIStation.GetCargoWaiting(st, cargoId) <= 300
06:01<Samu>100, 300, 600, 1000, 1500
06:02<Samu>which one?
06:04<Samu>which amount waiting at a station is "too high" to not consider an advertising campaign?
06:05<Samu>im going with 300 for now
06:05<Samu>but unsure
06:08<Samu>with 100, it won't consider the top 12 out of 160
06:08<Samu>with 300, it won't consider the top 4 out of 160
06:09<Samu>maybe 100 is better? 100 or 300, must decide
06:15<Samu>something tells me i should be going with 100
06:39<Samu>have u actually tried to build roads near sloped terrain, it's kind of buggy
06:40<Samu>building 2+ tile wide roads starting on slopped terrain kinda fails
06:41<Samu>land slopped in wrong direction or something, even though it can be built if it's built as a 1 tile
06:43<Samu>i'm 99% sure it's NotRoadTypes faulty
06:45<andythenorth>how to repro?
06:46<Samu>ok, i will repro
06:46<andythenorth>all cases work for me so far
06:47<Samu>sec, better get latest version to try
06:48<Wolf01>How do you build 2 tile wide roads?
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07:03<Samu>ah, got the buggy behaviour, posting
07:05<Samu>the road SW-NE was there first
07:07<LordAro>2 tile wide roads?
07:07<Wolf01>There's a foundation there, you can't build a road going downhill on a foundation
07:08<Wolf01>In the other 4 roads maybe there's a slope?
07:08<LordAro>nothing in that picture indicates a problem, nor anything specific to any mythical 2-tile wide roads
07:41<Samu>it should connect
07:42<Samu>it should end the connection on the road with foundation
07:43<Samu>it used to do that
07:46<Samu>is 1.9.2 without notroadtypes? i can try there
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07:52<Samu>weird, it doesn't
07:52<Samu>I'm confused, I don't recall it never connecting there
07:54<Samu>it's doing the same in 1.9.2, I'm confused now
07:56<Wolf01>It always have been like that
07:56<Wolf01>If you want to build the last road bit to connect, you should stop there
07:57<Wolf01>Trying to build a full tile throws error and both roadbits fail
07:58<Wolf01>You could try to "fix" it by tuning the "buildstraightroad" function or whatever is called
08:02<Samu>maybe that's how i remember
08:02<Samu>releasing mouse on the foundation road
08:03<Wolf01>Anyway, if you "fix" this to build at least the connection roadbit you are welcome
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08:06<Samu>building a road towards SW-NE was what was triggering the wrong slope direction, maybe i was releasing on the next tile
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08:07<Samu>terrain is inclined towards the back
08:07<Samu>releasing mouse on the foundation was perhaps already the next tile
08:34<Samu>if I were to implement exclusive transport rights, in which way should I use it
08:34<Samu>the AI currently doesn't have it
08:35<Samu>it's anti-competitive in my view, but i could make it an option
09:43<andythenorth>how to make towns require building materials to grow?
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09:53<Wolf01>That is a good question
09:54<andythenorth>last time I asked this, Truebrain rage quit :(
09:54<andythenorth>the question is jinxed :)
09:57<Samu>you need a gs?
09:57<Samu>to set cargo goals for towns
09:58<Wolf01>No, he need the same thing present in tropic and alpine with water and food respectively
09:58<Samu>yes, a GS
09:59<andythenorth>at the risk of having this conversation for the 99th time
09:59<andythenorth>GS isn't appropriate
09:59<andythenorth>GS is blind to newgrfs
10:00<andythenorth>oof this always ends in rage quit :)
10:00<Wolf01>Just don't :P
10:00<Samu>there's some CityBuilder GSs out there
10:01<Samu>let me think
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10:04<andythenorth>Samu: unstated assumption, this needs to be in an industry newgrf
10:04<andythenorth>it's not possible :)
10:04<andythenorth>sorry to waste your time
10:05<Samu>is there a TOWN_CUSTOM_GROWTH on newgrfs stuff?
10:07<andythenorth>there is a town effect flag on newgrf cargos
10:09<Samu>ah, let me search
10:11<Samu>AI's has some TownEffect functions
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10:16<Samu>i have this little function that determines which cargo type is needed to grow a town
10:16<Samu>it detects FOOD and WATER for sub-tropic
10:16<Samu>and FOOD for arctic
10:16<Samu>and the amount required is 1
10:17<Samu>just 1
10:17<Samu>per month, i guess
10:19<Samu>i thought it was customizable via newgrf changing towns
10:21<andythenorth>there is a newgrf customisation point in cargos
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10:24<Samu>have to try some newgrfs... to see what this function comes up with
10:30<Samu>FIRS 2.1.5?
10:32<Samu>ok, it says it requires FOOD and GOOD, with FIRS 2.1.5 on sub-tropic
10:32<Samu>amount is 1 for both
10:34<Samu>on temperate, nothing is required on any town
10:36<Samu>on sub-arctic tileset ir requires FOOD, amount 1
10:37<Samu>sorry caps
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11:29<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SoothedTau commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
11:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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11:57<peter1139>Was it lunch time?
11:57<peter1139>Cos I had lunch.
11:58<peter1139>I might have a bit of pizza tonight. It's plain cheese, should I add some toppings?
11:59<Samu>Is there actually a GS that changes town cargo goals at all?
12:01<Samu>I tried some CityBuilder GS and none change towns and total town whatever control
12:01<Samu>at least from an AI point of view, nothing changes
12:04<Samu>what the heck can GS's do then? :(
12:06<Samu>enum TownEffect { TE_NONE, TE_PASSENGERS, TE_MAIL, TE_GOODS, TE_WATER, TE_FOOD } The effects a cargo can have on a town.
12:17<andythenorth>peter1139: add ground pepper
12:17<Wolf01>Add more cheese
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12:31<Samu>andythenorth: does this make any sense?
12:32<Samu>GOOD behaves like water?
12:32<Samu>is that how u made it?
12:32<andythenorth>yes but no but yes
12:33<andythenorth>there is no water cargo
12:33<andythenorth>so something has to substitute
12:34<andythenorth>in the new Steeltown economy, Carboon Steel has to have TE_WATER :P
12:37<Samu>you can't change town effects via newgrf?
12:38<andythenorth>it is possible yes
12:38<andythenorth>but there isn't always an equivalent cargo
12:39<Samu>you mean an effect?
12:39<Samu>seems that you assign an effect to a cargo
12:39<andythenorth>additionally, it has to be accepted by the houses
12:40<andythenorth>which has some unelated issues
12:40<Samu>not necessarily
12:40<Samu>water is accepted by an industry
12:40<Samu>but has an effect on towns
12:40<andythenorth>actually yes, accepted by the houses or an industry
12:42<Samu>houses can accept 15 cargoes, i think
12:42<Samu>not sure, but i remember something being increased on them
12:42<andythenorth>by convention, industry and house newgrfs are separate
12:42<andythenorth>and the base set houses have a few limitations
12:43<andythenorth>it is possible to fix in a newgrf though, just work
12:44<Samu>where are tourists?
12:44<Samu>isn't it FIRS that have tourists?
12:47<Samu>jesus what a slow ass computer..
12:48<andythenorth>ECS is tourists
12:51<andythenorth>copper industry in chile needs 400,000 tons of grinding balls every year
12:51<andythenorth>who knew
12:51<andythenorth>that's a cargo I wouldn't have thought of
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12:53<Samu>launching openttd with newgrfs is super slow on this computer...
12:55<Samu>looks like ECS has done it correctly
12:56<super_spooky>andythenorth: holy smokes chile produces a lot of copper
12:57<Samu>ah, no, they cheat with goods
12:57<Samu>GOOD has a TE_FOOD effect
12:57<andythenorth>'cheat' :)
12:58<Samu>be back later
13:07*andythenorth invents yarn cargo
13:07<andythenorth>nielsm: all these extra cargos at industries are super :)
13:23<Samu>hmm ECS has two WATR cargos
13:23<Samu>cargo 27 and cargo 9
13:24<Samu>both with TE_WATER effect
13:25<Samu>Effect of TOUR is TE_PASSENGERS
13:26<Samu>effect of PASS is TE_PASSENGERS
13:26<Samu>so there can be more than 1 cargo type with the same effect
13:27<Samu>FIRS doesn't do this
13:28<Samu>i thought cargo labels had to be unique
13:28<Samu>but k
13:31<Samu> look at cargo 9 and cargo 27
13:32<Samu>which of the WATR cargo is the town requiring?
13:32<Samu>any of them?
13:34<Samu>very confusing with the Goods too
13:35<Samu>if I deliver Food to the town, will it grow?
13:36<Samu>the script lists 3 cargos needed to grow that town
13:36<Samu>or 4
13:37<Samu>FOOD, GOOD, WATR (9) and WATR (27)
13:37<Samu>the town window displays only 2
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13:48<Samu>just tested: delivered FOOD to town and Goods were delivered
13:48<Samu>Goods required became Goods delivered, even though I am transporting FOOD
13:57<Samu>hmm, so in reality, "Goods" in the town window is the town effect TE_FOOD, but why that name?
13:59<Samu>hacks! hacks everywhere!
14:17<peter1139>Anything good on Netflix at the moment?
14:22<Markk>No, nothing.
14:22<Markk>That's quite the subjective thing, I believe.
14:25<peter1139>It is subjective indeed. But my question kinda reads "What do you think is worth watching on Netflix?"
14:25<peter1139>And if you think there isn't anything, of course, pipe up :-)
14:50<Wolf01>I'm watching Pokémon on Netflix when I have nothing else better to do... s/watching/sleeping :P
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>i've never watched anything on netflix
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>isn't that the company that sends you DVDs per mail? :p
15:04<acklen>personally I like the Zoo
15:04<acklen>it's so bad it's good
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>so... i made some progress on my road mod, i successfully edited the model in blender, but now i need to find and edit the surface texture...
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>also, looks like i need to make another model for the connection node
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15:13*andythenorth lost in textile industry stuff
15:15<Samu>static const uint TOWN_GROWTH_WINTER = 0xFFFFFFFE; ///< The town only needs this cargo in the winter (any amount)
15:16<Samu>@calc 0xFFFFFFFE
15:16<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4294967294
15:16<Samu>how is this any amount
15:17<Samu>if the amount is 4294967294, then it is actually 1, ok, I see
15:19<Samu>i looked at town_gui.cpp, it seems to be prepared to accept more than 2 town effects
15:19<Samu>to display*
15:19<Samu>there are 5 town effects, seems ready to display all 5
15:20<Samu>how to make a town require 5 town effects
15:31<Samu>there's also CargoClass, but for towns that's irrelevant
15:54<Samu>oh, CargoClass are are flag kind of enum
15:54<Samu>1 << 1
15:54<Samu>1 << 2
15:54<Samu>1 << 3 etc... 1 << 9
15:55<Samu>nowhere in the noai is that even mentioned
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16:23<andythenorth>does anyone know what builders yards are for in FIRS?
16:23<andythenorth>they don't do anything
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16:53<Eddi|zuHause>weren't they just a sink for building materials?
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17:20<andythenorth>I've deleted them
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17:22<Samu>andythenorth: which cargo is SCMT, it has a CargoClass of CC_BULK | 4096
17:23<Samu>that 4096 is not listed here
17:23<Samu>would be 1 << 12
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17:27<Samu>non-pourable, that's a weird one
17:27<Samu>so you can invent unofficial CargoClasses?
17:31<Samu>this is not in openttd
17:31<Samu>why is it in newgrf
17:32<Samu>scripts also have no access to those cargoclasses
17:32<Samu>unless they test all values
17:45<Samu>also the documentation doesn't even warn that CargoClasses are flag or bitmask
17:45<Samu>in noai
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20:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i'm not 100% sure how these nodes work... i still got areas not covered by the model :/
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21:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... turns out the pavement must be at a very specific position
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>that kinda disturbs my plan...
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 17 00:00:56 2019