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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-08-18

---Logopened Sun Aug 18 00:00:58 2019
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04:08<Samu>hi
04:16<Samu>testing my AI being friendly
04:16<Samu>wondering if it bankrupts for being too friendly
04:22<Samu>EpicTrans is really.... lame
04:23<Samu>builds wood bridges everywhere, and bankrupts all the time
04:23<Samu>then builds more wood bridges
04:23<Samu>and the other AIs make use of the bridges in pathfinding
04:23<Samu>oh well, just another trial against AIs
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04:43<Samu>terron bug https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=54639&p=1224490#p1224490
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06:20<Samu>this.cost = this.Cost(this);
06:21<Samu>help! english me on that
06:27<Samu>https://github.com/SamuXarick/LuDiAI-AfterFix/blob/master/RoadPathfinder.nut#L49
06:27<Samu>what's happening here, it's confusing
06:28<Samu>there is no this.Cost
06:29<Samu>or is it?
07:27<Wolf01>For me it's confusing how the Road.Cost works... but I'm lacking knowledge of the language syntax
07:33<Samu>those _set and _get functions
07:34<Samu>i dont call them directly, but they seem to be called
07:50<nielsm>http://squirrel-lang.org/doc/squirrel2.pdf <- page 33 and 34 describe the _set and _get metamethods
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09:27<Wolf01>It's funny that I have ups protected network and then the line goes out because a power outage in the entire town... with the old dsl it didn't happen
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10:02<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose it's hard to power distributed network hubs through fibreglass...
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10:19-!-DrSegfault is "Johannes Lorenz" on #openttd
10:20<DrSegfault>hey, I've played on one map for 7 years and now there's no space left to build anything new. can I somehow extend the map size now?
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>no
10:21<DrSegfault>:-((
10:22<nielsm>long answer: it would be extremely difficult to expand the map size every single object on the map needs to have its coordinates updated, and all references to coordinates would also need to be updated
10:22<DrSegfault>nielsm: I meant mostly appending stuff at the sides, keeping the old coords
10:22<nielsm>yes that's the thing, tiles have an index, not a coordinate
10:23<DrSegfault>ahh
10:23<nielsm>you could extend in the Y direction, but extending in the X direction would need remapping everything
10:25<DrSegfault>doesn't sound like that's doable with a few minutes of scripting...
10:25<nielsm>nope, too many places need changing, and it would most definitely confuse any AI or GS being used
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12:17<Samu>somebody turned off the computer
12:17<Samu>fml
12:26<Samu>Redirect Left is annoying
12:27<Samu>I won't fix it myself, it's not like I have access to upload for him
12:27<Samu>or them
12:29<Samu>"thread is dead", orly? maybe because nobody reported bugs...
12:29<LordAro>try not to monologue, Samu
12:32<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=54639&start=60#p1224506
12:37<Samu>trans ai was also dead, then this year he started fixing stuff
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12:54<Wolf01>bbl
12:55<argoneus>do you guys still play ttd
12:56<Samu>ya
12:57<argoneus>any train sets you'd recommend for FIRS
12:57<argoneus>extreme
12:57<argoneus>last I played NUTS was all the hype
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13:01<Samu>what is the name of a line going from 2 opposite verices of a rectangle?
13:01<Samu>english:(
13:02<LordAro>diagonal
13:02<Samu>rectangle has 4 points, A B C D. A C and B D are opposite. the line that starts at A and ends in C is called...
13:02<Samu>diagonal
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13:03<arikover>argoneus: I would say Iron Horse.
13:03<Samu>iron horse line
13:05<argoneus>that looks cute
13:08<peter1139>LordAro, nice work
13:09<LordAro>peter1139: everything hurts
13:09<peter1139>I bet
13:10<LordAro>but thanks :)
13:11<Samu>my geometric skills aka math suck
13:12<Samu>dont know what to call the variable
13:12<Samu>_search_area_radius
13:13<Samu>_extend_diagonal_area
13:14<Samu>_max_search_area_limit
13:14<Samu>_search_area_limit
13:15<Samu>_limit_search_area
13:16<peter1139>Use them all interchangably.
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13:18<Samu>given 2 tiles A and B, draw a rectangle starting on A, ending on B, to generate tiles C and D
13:19-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
13:20<Samu>then using those points, get the _min_x, _min_y, _max_x, _max_y
13:21<LordAro>Samu: go away and think about it, instead of live streaming your thought process here
13:21<Samu>:(
13:25<peter1139>LordAro, I wimped out. It started spitting as I was leaving but I went out anyway, but after an hour I was soaked :/
13:25<peter1139>Should've at least found the waterproof socks/overshoes.
13:26<LordAro>heh
13:26<LordAro>no issues with the weather here, other than the wind
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13:52<andythen_>argoneus: Iron Horse 2
13:52<andythen_>There’s a beta on bananas
13:52<argoneus>what's the difference from 1?
13:53-!-andythenorth_ [~andytheno@29.red-88-26-182.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:53<andythen_>“Everything” :)
13:54<andythen_>Also needs the Termite track grf
13:55<argoneus>oh
13:55<argoneus>I was trying to find a list of trains or sth
13:58<_moep_>hey community! where can i change, that i buy new vehicles, when they are too old?
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14:00<andythen_>argoneus: there used to be online docs for Iron Horse listing all trains, but they’re gone (for now)
14:00<andythen_>One day I’ll figure out how to provide them :)
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>maybe andynow_ could fix them?
14:01<andythen_>Surfeit of nicks?
14:01<andythen_>Multiple devices :p
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>first world problems?
14:01<andythen_>Very
14:03*andythen_ dinner
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14:07<Samu>im trying to limit the pathfinder search from https://imgur.com/DEWepqV to https://imgur.com/QnDM9Ee
14:07<Samu>i take the coordinates of the 2 stations and compute a rectangle
14:08<Samu>i can increase the size of the rectangle by that value i put there _max_search_area_limit
14:08<Samu>now I just need a decent variable name and to describe it, help
14:10<Wolf01>"x"
14:11<Samu>https://imgur.com/xjBwDqV here's with a value of 3
14:11<Samu>https://imgur.com/QnDM9Ee here's with a value of 1
14:12<Samu>https://imgur.com/DEWepqV here's with a value of 0 - unrestricted search
14:12<Samu>now english what I just did for me plz
14:42<Samu>~back, and no english
14:43<Samu>"x" is a bad name
14:50<Samu>_max_search_area_offset ?
14:50<Samu>_search_offset
14:58<LordAro>it doesn't matter that much
14:58<LordAro>if it's disastrously wrong, someone else can suggest something better
14:59<Samu> _max_search_offset = null; ///< The maximum offset of the rectangle area the pathfinder is limited to. Uses source and target tiles as reference points for the rectangle. If 0, the search is unrestricted and not confined to any area.
15:00<Samu>well, then :(
15:00<Samu>how's this english
15:07<Arveen>do cacti die when you just place them somewhere in the desert ?
15:07<Arveen>^ sub tropical map
15:12<nielsm>Samu: _search_range
15:13<nielsm>"Range to search aroud source and destination, in either coordinate. 0 indicates unlimited."
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15:20<Samu>cool, nielsm thx, appreciated
15:29<Samu>erm, it's not quite around source and dest only
15:29<Samu>those are only 2 points
15:31<Samu>hard to sumarize it, I suppose
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15:55<andythenorth_>US trains have some realism chaallenges
15:56<andythenorth_>Lots of the big shiny stuff only had 15 year service lives
15:56<andythenorth_>It gets worn out by intense use, or superceded by new technology
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15:57<andythenorth_>Gameplay is better with generations around 30 years :p
16:00<andythenorth_>Union Pacific went through ~7 generations of high-end locomotive 1930-1970 :p
16:01<milek7>30 years is too short, here 50+ locos are still used ;P
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16:14<andythenorth_>New trains every 10 years? o_O
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16:20<Samu>on a 64x64 map, freeform off makes playable area 63x63 ?
16:20<Samu>freeform on makes 62x62?
16:22<Samu>i thought the entire 64x64 was available with freeform off
16:22<Samu>is it really only 63x63?
16:25<nielsm>62x62
16:26<nielsm>the outer ring of tiles is special
16:26<nielsm>edge tiles that can't be used for anything except detecting you're at the edge
16:29<Samu>uhm, counting from 0 to 62 is 63
16:29<nielsm>both row 0 and row 63 are guard tiles
16:29<nielsm>(I forget the proper word)
16:31<Samu>row 63 isn't water
16:31<Samu>it's black
16:31<Samu>but row 0 is water
16:32<LordAro>void tiles
16:32<LordAro>and iirc yes, they're only in certain directions
16:32<LordAro>can't remember why
16:32*LordAro looks at peter1139
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16:36<Samu>interesting
16:38<Samu>this means there's actually more road buildable area with freeform on
16:38<Samu>even though the playable area of the map is shorter
16:38<Samu>smaller
16:40<Samu>63x63 = can build road from 1 to 61
16:40<Samu>62x62 = can build road from 1 to 62
16:44<peter1139>Void tile changes were nothing to do with me.
16:44<LordAro>oh i know, but i can't remember the details about the reasons why things are the way that they are
16:47<Samu>local freeform = AIMap.IsValidTile(0) ? 0 : 1;
16:47<Samu>if it's valid, freeform is disabled, min_x and min_y is 0
16:48<nielsm>the void tiles on the bottom edges are needed so the map edge can be raised/lowered
16:48<+michi_cc>SE and SW map edges always had void tiles to simplify coding wrap-around. As tile slope depends on the surround tile heights, freeform as void all around because you can't assume tile height 0 anymore.
16:48<Samu>else min_x and min_y is 1
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16:58<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pmfujrgil
16:58<Samu>any way to simplify this ?
17:10<Samu>oh, the other function
17:11<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/prqsbwaty
17:11<LordAro>Samu: probably not without sacrificing readability
17:11<LordAro>the this._min/max_x/y conditionals look a bit odd
17:12<LordAro>certainly need some extra parens
17:12<LordAro>but the false term being N_x - (N_x - this._search_range) is odd
17:17<Samu>hmm, but it works already :(
17:17<Samu>ok, parenthesis
17:18<LordAro>Samu: not saying it doesn't work, but it's a lot of code for what's just this._search_range
17:19<Samu>this._min_x = (N_x - this._search_range) < min_freeform ? min_freeform : N_x - this._search_range;
17:24<LordAro>oh, i see
17:24<LordAro>that's very different than what i assumed it was being
17:24<LordAro>(hence, parens)
17:25<LordAro>sounds like you want max(min_freeform, N_x - this._search_range); though
17:25<Samu>is there a max function in squirrel
17:25<LordAro>i imagine so
17:26<LordAro>you can make one if not
17:30<Samu>looks like there is
17:37<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/7c8e7c6b6e16d4a26259a676db32d8776b99817e/src/script/squirrel_std.cpp#L24
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17:58<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p1x8xmqgt
17:58<Samu>smaller
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18:39<Samu>actually using it...
18:39<Samu>pathfinder.cost.search_range = route_dist / 5;
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18:40<Samu>it's not really a "cost", but...
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18:44<Samu>fastest profile is ultra mega hyper godly fast now
18:44<Samu>range = 1 lol
18:44<Samu>fails a lot on maps with tons of water
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18:46<Samu>@calc 20 / 5
18:46<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4
18:47<Samu>@calc 155/5
18:47<@DorpsGek>Samu: 31
18:49<Samu>31 is a little bit too much, i think
18:49<Samu>but ok, will have to test
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 19 00:00:59 2019