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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-08-27

---Logopened Tue Aug 27 00:00:11 2019
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09:20<Samu>are the forum ads
09:21<Samu>supposed to be excessively big?
09:22<Arveen>ads ?
09:24<Arveen>oh there is an ad banner at the top
09:24<Arveen>never noticed, heh
09:24<LordAro>TrueBrain: DorpsGek_II seems oddly silent, has it broken, or has GH broken webhooks?
09:24<Arveen>now that i seen it i totaly want to install PDF convert tools
09:24<Samu>bottom side
09:25<Arveen>way smaller for me - like 100x600 px
09:26<LordAro>Samu: that's definitely excessively big
09:26<LordAro>orudge: ^ ?
09:27<Samu> top side
09:27<LordAro>Samu: you've done that several times
09:27<LordAro>think before you press enter
09:27<LordAro>"undefined", funnily enough, is not a valid imgur link
09:27<Samu>seriosuly, i copy link and it gives me that
09:27<LordAro>but you still press enter yourself
09:28<Samu>the upload speed here must be trash
09:36<peter1139>That first image is clearly an advert faking being a forum section... just doesn't work with that theme, heh.
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11:33<andythenorth_>Important news: I had lunch
11:35<andythenorth_>that is all I can say before this connection drops again :x
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14:02<andythenorth_>So how about MoreEnginePhysics? o_O
14:03<andythenorth_>Adjust effective hp depending on speed
14:03<andythenorth_>NewGRF definition of speed-power curves
14:04<andythenorth_>Leave it all at 1:1 as default
14:06*andythenorth_ wonders how parametric functions work :p
14:06<andythenorth_>also how to cache results :p
14:07<frosch123>you already have maxte, power and maxspeed
14:07<frosch123>aren't three parameters enough?
14:07<frosch123>do you need b-spline control points?
14:08<andythenorth_>Te is a bit misleading, in tests it’s irrelevant
14:08<andythenorth_>Unless the train has not enough hp for the hill
14:08-!-Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:09<andythenorth_>i.e. TE only offers differentiation when the train is already going too slowly :)
14:10<nielsm>news on the macos slowdown front
14:10<andythenorth_>the case is new Horse roster, frosch123 you helped me fix the lack of differentiation between freight and pax engines
14:11<andythenorth_>But for new roster I want to do slow freight and faster freight
14:11<andythenorth_>The current method is “slowest = highest power”
14:12<andythenorth_>Which works and will probably work again
14:13<nielsm>if non-perishable cargo types had even less drop-off in delivery payments from long transit time, lower maintenance cost on slow engines could work well
14:14<andythenorth_>that’s a function of the industry set and could be arranged
14:14<nielsm>hmm, how does input-stockpiles to industries work with acceptance stop and trains with too much cargo
14:14<nielsm>will a train be able to stay in station and slowly unload while the industry works its stockpile?
14:14<nielsm>so I guess not
14:15<andythenorth_>Acceptance stop is generally unwise
14:15<andythenorth_>IRL trains have peak and continuous hp
14:15<andythenorth_>hmm, /me gtg :(
14:15<nielsm>my thought was about industries rewarding consistent deliveries at a sufficient rate, and discouraging huge dumps followed by long waits for the next load
14:17<frosch123>nielsm: do that via the output cargo
14:17<frosch123>reward constant delivery with more output
14:17<frosch123>instead of punishing bad delivery
14:18<nielsm>hmm yeah, maybe like: stockpile never dropped below X in the past Y months: bonus%
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14:20<nielsm>that's pretty much a cross-breeding of the FIRS and the SPI models
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14:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: what did you do to him :(
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14:27<TrueBrain>no real error .. just kicked it to see if that helps :)
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14:31<TrueBrain>nope ...
14:32<TrueBrain>not helpful
14:32<TrueBrain>seems GitHub messages are no longer understood or something ..
14:35<TrueBrain>ah .. fetching .dorpgek.yml fails .. seems their API changed ..
14:36<TrueBrain>well, that is not something to fix in 32C
14:42<LordAro>TrueBrain: :<
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16:01<Eddi|zuHause>hm... 1000 people died in the tornado
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling that would have been less if i didn't tell them to go to the shelter
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>... because they panicked and went everywhere but the shelter
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>like 600 people piled up in the tram station that went away from the shelter
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16:25<andythenorth_>so I just use HP & speed for distinguishing different types of engine. :)
16:26<andythenorth_>frosch123: no fancy extra physics?
16:30<frosch123>i think i missed your point. what engine classes do you want to distinguish?
16:31<andythenorth_>Slow freight and fast freight
16:31<frosch123>or do you want the "show arbitrary png in purchase list"-feature to show fancy graphs? :p
16:32<andythenorth_>IRL there are differences in construction between fast and slow freight engines
16:32<frosch123>what is the benefit for slow freight?
16:32<frosch123>faster acceleration? specific cargo types?
16:32<andythenorth_>At game scale it’s probably irrelevant
16:33<andythenorth_>being frank, this is mostly a way to deliberately mess up networks by introducing two freight speeds
16:33<FLHerne>frosch123: In UKRS2, slow freight engines have dramatically more TE
16:33<andythenorth_>Networks with a single speed are the easiest to manage :p
16:34<frosch123>so, you wanto te to have a bigger impact?
16:34<andythenorth_>Currently it’s ~irrelevant
16:34<andythenorth_>I ran some tests a while ago
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16:34<frosch123>is high TE too weak, or is low TE too strong?
16:35<andythenorth_>I don’t recall, but iirc the code shows TE only makes a difference in extreme cases
16:35<andythenorth_>Otherwise HP always just wins
16:36<andythenorth_>This is realistic & correct afaict for train physics
16:36<frosch123>train acceleration mode: original, realistic, interesting ?
16:38<LordAro>original, realistic, andy
16:38<andythenorth_>There are some realisms missing from the realistic model
16:38<andythenorth_>Maybe not needed in a game
16:39<andythenorth_>IRL gearing is a factor for both acceleration and sustained performance
16:39<andythenorth_>Rotational speed of traction motors has to be within certain limits
16:40<frosch123>so you want to distinguish engines with peak performance (fast start) vs continuous perforance (heavy load)?
16:40<andythenorth_>Also sustained power through a motor - heat dissipation becomes an issue
16:41<andythenorth_>For steam engines, ability of boiler to replenish used steam is an issue
16:41<andythenorth_>And size of driving wheels
16:43<frosch123>the vehicle gui needs a "nitro" button
16:43<frosch123>90% to make engine faster, 10% for immediate breakdown
16:43<andythenorth_>But tbh in openttd, “is it yellow” is probably more important than realism
16:43<andythenorth_>Transport Tycoon 2 has exactly that nitro switch :p
16:44<frosch123>railroad tycoon?
16:44<andythenorth_>Oops :)
16:45<frosch123>only played 1
16:45<andythenorth_>I guess I would like to explore having an engine that will go at constant 65mph on flat or up a hill, vs 100mph engine that hates hills
16:46<andythenorth_>Probably tmwftlb
16:48<frosch123>so give one engine 50k hp and max speed 65 :p
16:49<andythenorth_>That does work
16:50<andythenorth_>once again, no spec extension needed :D
16:50<frosch123>anyway, i still wonder whether it makes sense for engine to consume stored power at hills, and recharge on flats
16:51<frosch123>would mean that engines ignore small hills, but don't they do that anyway?
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16:52<andythenorth_> /me now lost in messy RL physics :p
16:52<frosch123>i though about thermal capacity
16:53<frosch123>less power in summer :p
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16:53<frosch123>more power above snowline?
16:54<andythenorth_>Diesels are altitude dependent :p
16:54<andythenorth_>Higher altitude = lower power
16:54<andythenorth_>Turbocharging mitigates this :p
16:54<andythenorth_>So many dimensions of performance we don’t account for :D
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16:55<milek7>maintenance costs should depend on fuel usage
16:55<milek7>and it could be even negative temporaily, when electric loco drives down from hill and uses regenerative braking to return energy to grid :P
16:55<frosch123>there was a swiss mining truck in the news
16:56<frosch123>which drives stuff downhill, and empty uphill
16:56<frosch123>they did not quite achieve to make it consume no energy
16:56<andythenorth_>I’m sure someone has already tried to do negative run costs downhill in newgrf :p
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17:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] uvealonso commented on pull request #7705: Fix #7704 avoiding MacOS crash when badformed UTF8 strings
17:09<frosch123>so it got back to life?
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17:13<andythenorth_>Hmm bad paste
17:14<andythenorth_>Oof braking power also :p
17:14<andythenorth_>So much stuff
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17:15<frosch123>isn't that a wagon property?
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17:17<andythenorth_>It’s a thing I’m going to ignore :D
17:17<andythenorth_>It’s quite complex, especially for US freight trains
17:17<andythenorth_>Limited air capacity in the brakrvsystem
17:19*andythenorth_ thinks the main gameplay thing is choosing “pointy train” or “blocky train”
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17:24<andythenorth_>Also bedtime
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 28 00:00:12 2019