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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-09-03

---Logopened Tue Sep 03 00:00:57 2019
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02:51<andythenorth>o/
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04:17<andythenorth>hmm
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05:48<andythenorth>ok, is this changelog done then? ;) https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbr4xunr4/62m48x/raw
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07:31<andythenorth>Hurrah! https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=71219&p=1225047#p1225047
07:31<andythenorth>no pictures, oops
07:33<Arveen2>woohooo
07:37<andythenorth>:)
07:58<Arveen2>looks very nice
08:06<andythenorth>thanks
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09:04<andythenorth>pls send lunch?
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12:15-!-tokai is "Christian Rosentreter" on +#openttd
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13:34<supermop_work>hello Wolf01
13:34<Wolf01>Hello Spank!
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13:45<Wolf01>Meh, I can't fit everything on a single monitor
13:46<Wolf01>Also V453000 you could at least keep the 0.17.55 since it was the last one before the oil change... now we have to fix the production :P
13:46<Wolf01>We were waiting for the stable to start a new map
13:51<andythenorth>these torpedo wagons travel quite fast? https://youtu.be/X63JETQEPrA?t=223
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: hard to judge from the video. maybe 80km/h?
14:15<andythenorth>faster than I expected :)
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14:18<Wolf01>Also... are they empty?
14:19<andythenorth>probably
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15:17<supermop_work>big night in westminster andythenorth ?
15:17<andythenorth>am watching it
15:17<andythenorth>mostly hot air
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15:26<Eddi|zuHause>how is that different from all the other times?
15:28<+glx>seems to be worse this time
15:30<supermop_work>Eddi|zuHause: this time they've put off three years worth of discussion until tonight i guess
15:31<andythenorth>no we definitely discussed most of this before :P
15:31<andythenorth>most of it
15:31<supermop_work>discussed but didn't decide anything?
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15:34<andythenorth>nothing is decided
15:34<andythenorth>but I released Horse 2.0.0 so that's a thing
15:35<supermop_work>not confident anything will be decided this week either
15:35<andythenorth>I am confident Horse 3.0.0 won't be done this week
15:35<andythenorth>certainty
15:36<supermop_work>haha "Parliament decides what to do about Brexit" vs. "Andy decides a Grf is done and fit to be released"
15:36<supermop_work>not sure i expected the latter before the former
15:36<+glx>nothing will be decided before 31/10
15:38<andythenorth>2.0.1 next? o_O
15:38<andythenorth>I've already made commits
15:38*andythenorth wonders if bundles server can be fixed
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16:23<Eddi|zuHause>the one that is really outdated and needs to be replaced and migrated?
16:26<andythenorth>that one yes
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16:58<andythenorth>:o
16:58<andythenorth>France actually has 125mph freight trains
16:58<andythenorth>only one route, but eh
16:59<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWXDSb6U5P0
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17:02<Etua>Funny to see freight train that is faster than passenger trains in some countries.
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17:12<+glx>andythenorth: but the french rail infrastructure is mostly unmaintained, with a lot of speed limits caused by lack of maintenance
17:12<+glx>except on TGV lines
17:13*andythenorth went to France some time ago
17:13<andythenorth>lot of train track
17:13<andythenorth>a lot more than the UK at the time
17:14<+glx>in many places they replace trains with bus
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17:38*andythenorth replaces 'awake' with 'asleep' :)
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17:40<Eddi|zuHause><glx> andythenorth: but the french rail infrastructure is mostly unmaintained, with a lot of speed limits caused by lack of maintenance <-- germany has a maintenance problem as well. basically, the german railway (which is "private", but 100% owned by the government) has to pay for maintenance itself, unless they neglect it so much that it has to be rebuilt from scratch, then the government must pay for it
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>so they're not exactly intensvised to maintain...
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>incentivised
17:41<+glx>it's not "private" yet here
17:42<+glx>except for fret
17:42<+glx>*freight
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>railway privatisation was a thing they pushed for massively in the 90s
17:42<+glx>it will soon due to european regulation
17:43<+glx>and "service quality" dream :)
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>there's some pushback that wants to revert parts of it here, particularly the infrastructure bits.
17:44<+glx>when SNCF "bad" service is mostly due to bad infrastructure
17:44<+glx>so it won't be better for others
17:45<+glx>the only difference will be newer trains
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>thing about actual "private" railways (which is mostly code for "state-owned foreign railways", like dutch railway and stuff), is that the german railway controls the infrastructure, so they can set prices and track slots to favour itself over others
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>which is the second reason why some people want to revert the infrastructure back into state-owned
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>to level the playing field
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17:48<+glx>IIRC they split infrastructure owning and use some time ago (mostly to move the debt to the infrastructure)
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>railway operation basically falls into 3 sectors: long distance, regional and freight. freight seems to be fine, with lots of larger and smaller companies competing. regional is weird, because they're government-issued contracts which are like 15-year-long local monopolies, and there's been practically no competition on long distance, pretty much everyone that tried to compete there gave up after a few years
17:50<+glx>freight is not very good here as it uses same tracks as passengers but with lower priority
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17:51<+glx>it used to be better
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>same here, but it comes down to a few major bottlenecks, like the rhine valley, and routes that ultimately lead towards alp-passes (gotthart, brenner)
17:52<+glx>and many trucks contourning germany via alsace, to escape the tax ;)
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>and there are a few cases where they built new routes, which were meant to also be used by freight, but they built them to such steep profiles that no economically viable freight train can use them
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>glx: which is weird, because it used to be france where using the autobahn costs money :p
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>i think they got the whole autobahn cost thing backwards
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>they should charge trucks for using anything OTHER than autobahn
17:55<+glx>they tried
17:55<+glx>french truckers were not happy
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise they just cause more traffic to back-roads
17:55<+glx>blocking roads and all
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>glx: knowing how protests in france tend to go, that probably wasn't pretty :p
17:57<+glx>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnets_Rouges
17:58<+glx>just cost 1 billion
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>let's not talk about costs...
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>... they tried here to extend the autobahn tax onto regular cars, with the intention to only really charge foreign cars, and give the locally registered cars a tax cut in the same amount
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>... and already given out contracts and stuff
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>... and then lost a court case declaring the law incompatible with european guidelines
18:00<+glx>isn't that illegal to charge only foreign ?
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>... so now they have to honour the contracts, but aren't allowed to charge anybody
18:01<+glx>they're supposed to think before deciding to do things
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>... uhm yeah. but when's that going to happen? :p
18:02<+glx>maybe someday :)
18:02<+glx>and then they're surprised people don't vote
18:03<+glx>and use far right fear
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>glx: but at the same time they're saying: "these youths should go back to school, and let the professionals deal with the issues"
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18:10<+glx>yeah
18:27<milek7>i guess you at least don't have highways leased to private companies on 30 years secret contracts, high tolls, and with roadworks on third of whole distance? ;P
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>milek7: there was a section of highway that they leased like that, and then the economy crashed and there were massively fewer trucks around to pay for it
18:33<+glx>we still have that
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 04 00:00:59 2019