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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-09-15

---Logopened Sun Sep 15 00:00:15 2019
00:12-!-Pikka [~Albert@203.185.243.60] has joined #openttd
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02:10<Pikka>zounds
02:15<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7741: Fix #7644: [OSX] Try to use system colour space to avoid video output… https://git.io/JeY9y
02:15<andythenorth>:o
02:15<andythenorth>a pikka
02:16<Pikka>tis
02:16<andythenorth>Twitter told me you're still alive and haven't fallen in the Brisbane river :)
02:16<andythenorth>but here, now, you are
02:16<Pikka>not permanently fallen in the river, anyway
02:17<Pikka>trying to remember how this train drawing thing works :)
02:17<andythenorth>use pixels
02:18<andythenorth>advanced level: use code to make pixels
02:18<Pikka>hmmm
02:19<andythenorth>but what are you drawing? :)
02:20<Pikka>321ing at the moment... also thinking about houses (and whether I should use code to draw houses or if that's tmw)
02:24<andythenorth>hmm
02:24<andythenorth>I never bothered with code for industries
02:24<andythenorth>just drawing
02:27<Pikka>code is nice for lots of variation on a theme, though. I was thinking of drawing elements (or elephants) and then getting the code to put them together
02:27<andythenorth>zeph did that somewhere
02:28<andythenorth>if I did a town set
02:29<andythenorth>I might do this:
02:29<andythenorth>- draw some ground floors (door on left, door on right etc)
02:29<andythenorth>- draw some upper floors (windows, balconies etc)
02:29<andythenorth>- draw different roof styles
02:29<andythenorth>all on same floorplan size
02:30<andythenorth>then composite them, to give 1, 2 or 3 storey houses
02:30<andythenorth>same for tower blocks
02:30<andythenorth>also recolouring
02:30<andythenorth>and I'd automate the boring crap like snow
02:31<Pikka>oh yeah, snow...
02:32<andythenorth>intermodal snow
02:33<Pikka>versatile!
02:34*andythenorth container wagons
02:56<andythenorth>Express Container Wagons!
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03:25<Pikka>implied container wagons?
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03:33*andythenorth now lost in google
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04:11<andythenorth>pikka hi
04:21<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9490/gronk!.png
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04:40<Samu>hi
04:44<Samu>Pikka, how do I make your AI "beat everyone else" in profits/company value, or something
04:44<Samu>which settings
04:45<Samu>I've seen it competing fiercely, once, but forgot to see which settings
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06:02<Pikka>Samu, dumb luck probably
06:02<Pikka>disabling the road network building might be it... it just builds randomly then, doesn't spend so much time pathfinding
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06:06<Samu>ok, will try
06:07<Pikka>I'm just trying to remember how it works myself, hadn't touched it for a couple of months before today :)
06:29<Samu>so i just discovered a new music group
06:29<Samu>:o
06:30<Samu>from SWE
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06:32<andythenorth_>so
06:32<andythenorth_>will it snowploughs?
06:33<Samu>weird videos
06:33<Samu>melodic songs with weird lyrics
06:35<Samu>videos seem to kind of express violent thoughts
06:36<Samu>melancolic
06:36<andythenorth_>snowplough zellepins?
06:39<Samu>nop
06:39<Samu>RABBII
06:39<Samu>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2ykjUUXvpilh5ipV25w_nQ
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06:46<Samu>the first song I listened by them was on a mix compilation, this: https://youtu.be/IDOYwuwAJPE
06:47<Samu>the voice intrigued me, lyrics as well, investigated and got tat
06:47<Samu>that group
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07:32<Pikka>snowploughs are better than noploughs
07:32<peter1139>O
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07:44<Eddi|zuHause>P
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08:07<Pikka>E?
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08:30<peter1139>Well, it's my lunch time.
08:31<peter1139>Post-cycle salad.
08:35<andythenorth>mmm lunch
08:35<andythenorth>I had two pork pies
08:35<andythenorth>probably ginsters
08:35<andythenorth>not valid
08:43<peter1139>o_O
08:43<peter1139>Got some sourdough bread as well. Mmm
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09:34<peter1139>Damn, my villagers died :(
09:35<andythenorth>should I Warcraft 1?
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10:38<andythenorth>did someone have a patch for newgrf docks?
10:39<nielsm>I don't think so
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10:53<Samu>i have a suggestion
10:54<Samu>I want a remove all signs
10:54<Samu>or I wish
10:54<Samu>I plant my debug pathfinding signs, then i want to remove them
10:55<Samu>can only remove 1 by 1, it's slow
10:55<Samu>this step could be done in a single step
11:08<+glx>if human player can't do it, AI can't
11:10<Samu>ok :(
11:17<supermop_Home_>tbh i always feel like just building coke ovens right next to mines
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11:49<andythenorth>supermop_Home_: and that's wrong how? :)
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12:13<peter1139>nielsm, why do you think that?
12:14<peter1139>I mean... I did.
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14:08<andythenorth>hmm
14:08<andythenorth>so HEQS in Road Hog?
14:08<andythenorth>or do HEQS 2?
14:09<andythenorth>I've been adding HEQS-type things to Road Hog so far
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14:57<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4
15:07<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4
15:10<nielsm>anyone want to review that? :)
15:13<Samu>@calc (150* 2 * 3 * 74 * 127 / 4) / (192 * 16) * 2)
15:13<@DorpsGek>Samu: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
15:13<Samu>@calc (150 * 2 * 3 * 74 * 127 / 4) / (192 * 16)
15:13<@DorpsGek>Samu: 688.330078125
15:56<andythenorth>nielsm: looks interesting :)
15:56<andythenorth>can't comment on code :)
16:06<_dp_>nielsm, it's probably possible to overflow 32bit on yearly cargotiles
16:06<_dp_>nielsm, will need special newgrf for that though so probably ok
16:06<nielsm>I thought I had made that 64 bit actually, guess not
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16:09<_dp_>also not sure if that feature is useful at all
16:10<_dp_>you can kinda guess that effeciency just by looking at the track
16:11<nielsm>the long-term goal is to add a way for GS to change the company score calculation
16:11<_dp_>would be more interesting if speed was also a factor imo
16:12<nielsm>the thing that isn't obvious just from looking at the track is idle time
16:12<nielsm>this rating will drop if vehicles are waiting long for their turn to load, or sitting at signals
16:13<nielsm>you'll get a worse efficiency rating for having too many vehicles for a route
16:15<_dp_>nielsm, ah, missed that actually
16:16<Samu>https://imgur.com/g7c4l9M pathfinding over 678 tiles
16:17<Samu>top left corner to bottom right corner of minimap
16:17<nielsm>actually, it doesn't handle road vehicles queuing, maybe it should
16:17<nielsm>nor aircraft blocked from movement on airport
16:18<_dp_>nielsm, am I reading it correct that only idling is penalized but going slow isn't?
16:18<nielsm>yes
16:19<nielsm>maybe it should, now you mention it
16:19<nielsm>if a fast vehicle is spending too much time going much slower than its theoretical top speed that's also waste of potential
16:19<Samu>nerf trains, good idea
16:20<_dp_>nielsm, well, at least for profit calculations acceleration plays a huge role
16:21<_dp_>nielsm, bit this thing is kinda arbitrary so hard to tell what should it count :p
16:23<andythenorth>in en-gb, 'intermodal wagon' or 'container wagon'?
16:23<andythenorth>it carries containers
16:23<LordAro>container container wagon
16:24<andythenorth>container wagon container
16:24<nielsm>aren't intermodal wagons the type that carry road trailers?
16:24<LordAro>flatbed wagon?
16:24<andythenorth>the terms are used interchangeably it seems https://www.ltsv.com/w_profiles_intermodal.php
16:24<Samu>interwagontainer
16:25<andythenorth>lol :)
16:27<_dp_>nielsm, what's the point of GS score calculation btw?
16:27<andythenorth>delete current high score mechanic?
16:27*andythenorth guessing
16:27<nielsm>giving the company score more meaning :)
16:28<nielsm>letting GS customise the game rules more
16:28<_dp_>andythenorth, yeah, like, I don't see any point in having a score in a first place
16:28<_dp_>goal servers have scores that matter but that's whole different story
16:28<nielsm>like, in a city builder you could have the company score actually reflect the GS rules
16:30<_dp_>nielsm, erm, you mean let GS show a scoreboard at the end of the game with whatever score it wants?
16:30<nielsm>yes
16:30<nielsm>(still under the 0 to 1000 restriction)
16:31<nielsm>and the performance rating graph reflects it as well
16:31<_dp_>mb somewhat useful but not with 1000 restriction
16:32<_dp_>like, for cb score is population, wtf is population in 0...1000 range supposed to mean?
16:33<Samu>there's 3 screenshot options
16:33<Samu>but... why
16:33<_dp_>also scoreboard is quite useful to have in game at all times not just at the end
16:33<_dp_>right now global goals are used for that
16:34<_dp_>probably the only use of global goals :p
16:34<milek7>'Company league table'
16:35<Samu>make a gif video creator instead of more screenshot options
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16:36<_dp_>milek7, oh, yeah, we have that thing as well
16:37<_dp_>idk, unless GS is allowed to write arbitrary info there it doesn't seem all that useful
16:39<_dp_>btw, score also comes with unit of measure. e.g. money, cargo units, etc.
16:39<nielsm>yes
16:39<nielsm>https://wiki.openttd.org/User:Nielsmh/GS_performance_rating
16:40<nielsm>some ideas I wrote
16:40<Samu>there can be only one GS :(
16:42<_dp_>nielsm, omg, components...
16:43<nielsm>yes that's how the scoring works originally and I want to allow only partially replacing the original scoring
16:43<nielsm>but you could also just make a single component score
16:45<_dp_>nielsm, yeah, I get it that you're trying to make original rating customizable
16:45<_dp_>it's just that goal servers work on a whole different premise
16:46<_dp_>I would be more than happy if I could just have some window where I could put whatever I want
16:46<_dp_>not having to deal with arbitrary components limitations etc
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16:48<_dp_>currently it's exactly this way with global goals that are designed to work as goals but never used like that
16:48<_dp_>and using them just to write a text is a huge pita
16:49<_dp_>coz they're unordered
16:50<nielsm>I suppose it could be possible to add a global switch for scoring mode, "fixed maximum" or "no maximum"
16:51<nielsm>with no fixed maximum the company league window would lose the "titles" for score ranges
16:52<_dp_>nielsm, one tricky part is that hq graphics also depend on titles
16:52<nielsm>yeah...
16:52<nielsm>and the HQ actually changes acceptance
16:53<_dp_>actually.. title can also be assignable by GS
16:54<_dp_>though it's kinda weird to have it all tied together
16:54<nielsm>or a hybrid of kind? there's still scoring components used to calculate the rating, but the score is separate
16:56<_dp_>nielsm, you mean have separate rating and scoring?
16:56<nielsm>yea
16:57<nielsm>the company league table reflects rating while the graph reflects score
16:58<_dp_>nielsm, idk, rating just feels completely unnecessary to me in that case
16:59<_dp_>I'd rather just have a command to set HQ style
17:03<_dp_>oh, btw, scoreboard on our multigoal servers includes companies that were closed
17:03<_dp_>so there is that usecase as well
17:03<_dp_>was quite a pain to implement also
17:04<_dp_>had to abuse some other feature
17:05<_dp_>namely vehicle groups as adding a group on server company is the only way I know to show arbitrary strings in GS
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17:13<nielsm>so you'd like a way for dead companies to be "memorialised" so their data is recorded even though they have no presence on the map
17:13<nielsm>and allow some large history of these ghosts
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17:15<_dp_>nielsm, well, I just wanted a company name but I guess more history can be of some use as well
17:17<_dp_>nielsm, like, if charts could show more than just 3 years it would make a lot of sense including dead companies
17:17<nielsm>the graph UI is pretty bad as it is :)
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17:19<_dp_>nielsm, yeah, I completely gave up on doing anything with those graphs even in a patched client xD
17:19<_dp_>much easier to do everything on a website
17:31<_dp_>to sum it up, what GS lacks the most imo is ability to do UI
17:32<_dp_>even in a simlest forms like showing error popups that have red window like real errors
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19:30<drac_boy>thought I saw it mentioned somewhere but with everything going on I forgot about it and now can't seem to find it again .. any of you know if its true that openttd may eventually have 4+ cargos per industry etc?
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20:35<+glx>drac_boy: yes https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6867 and same for houseshttps://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6872
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20:40<drac_boy>hmm thanks glx .. bookmarked that discussion thread for now probably will wait for it to be in beta or final release before I try figure how to use action7 myself :)
20:41<+glx>it's already in nightlies
20:41<+glx>if you want to test
20:45<drac_boy>I'll prefer to wait for the post-test phase you know? ty still :)
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23:42<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor opened issue #7742: Cannot select partially visible station items https://git.io/JeOTK
---Logclosed Mon Sep 16 00:00:16 2019