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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-09-29

---Logopened Sun Sep 29 00:00:35 2019
02:52<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries https://git.io/JeZ5M
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03:05<Wolf01>Caboose
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03:16<andythenorth>yo
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03:46<andythenorth>nielsm: o/
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03:57<nielsm>morning andythenorth
04:00<andythenorth>I have just released Horse 2.1 :)
04:00<andythenorth>which means I have some headspace for other things
04:01<andythenorth>I have a big FIRS dev branch, and I'm working on cutting some of it out for a v4 FIRS release
04:01<andythenorth>I remembered that maybe 16 cargo nml docs needed finalised?
04:02<andythenorth>I could help finish them
04:02<andythenorth>also the industry directory window crash, I could help with maybe
04:21<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9 https://git.io/JeZd0
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04:28<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain commented on issue #18: Linux error messages contain lots of docker "errors" https://git.io/JeZSV
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04:52<Ettiene>|Good morning, are there any servers or anybody that is willing to accomodate about 3 players that "kind of" regularly play. Hosting my own server doesn't really work out that well
05:02<nielsm>if you're fine with playing with other random people and the game continuing when you aren't on, just pick a random public server
05:03<nielsm>if you want a private game with your own settings, you might have to pay someone to host for you
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05:33<Ettiene>most of them seem to have passwords on them?
05:34<Ettiene>(ok nvm, you answered my question :) )
05:46<Wolf01><andythenorth> which means I have some headspace for other things <- nerf something, or tanks
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06:06<FLHerne>Ettiene: Reddit server 1 seems to be the most popular public server for "normal" gameplay
06:07<FLHerne>It's always online, big map and no goals so you can pretty much do what you like
06:08<FLHerne>Only issue is that the company slots often fill up
06:08<FLHerne>You can usually ask to join an existing one
06:09<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries https://git.io/JeZbz
06:10<Ettiene>Thanks Herne
06:17<@peter1138>They have dumb rules about industry 'ownership' though.
06:20<Samu>what rules do they have
06:21<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries https://git.io/JeZb1
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06:22<@peter1138>https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/34d6h9/rules_for_ropenttd_servers/
06:25<troy_>i'am useing openttd 1.9.3. installd to update from 1.9.2 and i have download the himalaya map. but as i have build a train with a carriage it works. but if a will build another one or extened a existing one de carriage is from the list. as any one other this prolbem?
06:26<FLHerne>peter1138: Only secondary ones, which makes some sense to me
06:26<@peter1138>It's bullshit.
06:27<FLHerne>I think we had this argument before :P
06:27<FLHerne>troy_: I don't quite understand, sorry
06:27<FLHerne>A screenshot might help?
06:29<troy_>where can i upload it?
06:30<Samu>oh, the secondary rules
06:30<Samu>andythenorth proved there are no primary or secondary industries with firs
06:33<Samu>he got some industries which already produce "primary" cargo, but if delivered cargo, they produce more of that primary cargo, makes it hard to identify which industry is primary
06:33<Samu>which is secondary
06:33<Samu>bends conventional rules
06:34<@peter1138>s/conventional/stupid/
06:35<Samu>i wonder what's the industry chain like for those industries
06:35<Samu>an infinite loop?
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06:38<Samu>bank <-> bank
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06:50<Wolf01><Samu> he got some industries which already produce "primary" cargo, but if delivered cargo, they produce more of that primary cargo, makes it hard to identify which industry is primary <- that's the boost cargo, usually "* supplies", there should apply the rule (s/rule/bullshit) "if I'm boosting this industry don't steal from it", it doesn't matter if primary or secondary
06:51<Wolf01>Also I would be fine if we could introduce that game mechanic directly into the game, you already have "buy exclusive transport rights" in cities
06:53<Samu>buy exclusive transport rights for all industries of this town?
06:54<Samu>or per industry?
06:55<nielsm>per industry would make most sense, making an exclusivity deal with another private enterprise
06:56<nielsm>but then town exclusivity should also be changed to only apply to passengers and mail
06:57<Samu>I had a poorly made PR that was prioritizing companies which were delivering cargo to an industry, making secondary cargo be available more often to stations of that company
06:57<Samu>but then newgrfs like firs broke it
06:58<Samu>not a PR, actually, just something on my fork
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07:02<Samu>https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/commit/1c9463e83be904e6bbcebd329b0b6aeee1580502
07:02<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:secondary-industry-cargo-station-delivery-bias
07:02<Samu>better link
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07:17<_dp_>yeah, industry sharing mechanics would be very nice to have
07:18<_dp_>but that should be just game rule not stupid bs like exclusive rights
07:20<_dp_>e.g. some way to define (via gs i guess) how each industry type behaves
07:24<FLHerne>Anyone for a quiet FIRS-basic/Iron Horse game?
07:25<FLHerne>In the server list under 'Casual UK-ish server'
07:41<+michi_cc>Hmm, did nobody change any languages this week or did the EINTS commit bot die?
07:46<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #7754: Fix: [OSX] Wrong allocator usage for creating a CFString. https://git.io/JeZNz
07:49<+michi_cc>nielsm: Regarding #7717, would you approve it in general (assuming we agree on whatever name)?
07:49<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7717: Codechange: [OSX] Use std::unique_ptr with a custom deleter to simply… https://git.io/JeZNg
07:51<nielsm>I didn't find any bad things last I looked over it
07:55<+michi_cc>My alternative name suggestion would be CFAutoRelease, because I'd prefer if the name is similar to CFRelease.
07:55<+michi_cc>Or maybe CFAutoReleaser if grammar is a thing.
08:03<@peter1138>Is it lunch time?
08:05<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7754: Fix: [OSX] Wrong allocator usage for creating a CFString. https://git.io/JeZNz
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09:24<andythenorth>yo
10:12<@planetmaker>we need someone who is taking care of the translators. No-one replied to translators for a few months :|
10:12<@planetmaker>it requires reading and writing e-mails and assigning translator roles
10:15<@planetmaker>hm... last valid translation request was in... July
10:15<@planetmaker>translator
10:29<andythenorth>does it have to be via email?
10:30*andythenorth wonders about a public system
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10:40<nielsm>or simpler in-system with direct approval?
10:41<nielsm>in-system request *
10:43<@planetmaker>I would argue to have some human between registration and commit access to translations
10:44<@planetmaker>You might otherwise quickly end-up spam bots "translating"
10:45<@planetmaker>besides that I'm not arguing for any particular system of how translations should be handled. I'm just quoting how they are handled now (or badly handled)
10:45<nielsm>that's my intended meaning
10:45<@planetmaker>s/badly/negligently/
10:45<nielsm>you click a button to request access to translate, someone sees that request and approves it
10:45<nielsm>without having to send an email and someone else to read it and then do a bunch of manual stuff
10:47<@planetmaker>Anyhow. The "how" is not ... the question. But the "who does it now". It obviously is not me to a good enough extent. I asked the same question about a year ago. The same answers. No change
10:50<@planetmaker>yes, going through the phpldapadmin for every request is really lengthy and mind-numbing
10:51<@planetmaker>But besides it needs means for personal communication if there's requests for new languages or non-standard stuff
10:51<@planetmaker>but that needs not be the default
10:53<andythenorth>afaik, we no longer have anybody administering the project?
10:54<andythenorth>obviously we have good rate of dev & PR approval
10:54<andythenorth>but if someone asked me who looks after admin stuff I wouldn't know who to say
10:54<@planetmaker>somewhat... dunno? what do you reference with "the project"? OpenTTD as a whole?
10:54<andythenorth>yes
10:54<andythenorth>I don't know who it used to be
10:54<+glx>depends on what admin stuff
10:54<@planetmaker>yes, I agree. I don't really know whom to ask the stuff I cannot do
10:55<andythenorth>orudge does the money?
10:55<+glx>yes
10:55<@planetmaker>yes
10:55<andythenorth>ok, so TB does most of the infra
10:56<andythenorth>so that just leaves translations, and random requests?
10:56<andythenorth>frosch was geting the random requests, but is retired
10:56<@planetmaker>TB is not in .tgp though... which I greatly regret
10:57<@planetmaker>is he officially retired? :-O
10:57<frosch123>i am available for random requests :)
10:57<@planetmaker>:)
10:57<frosch123>but i have not done anything ottd for a year
10:58<+glx>oh that happened to many of us I think
10:58<@planetmaker>^^
10:59<@planetmaker>just to be clear, the work with translations is not huge (anymore). Counting the e-mails asking for access since February is a a low 2-digit number
10:59<@planetmaker>the bigger number is deleting the spam to the address
11:00<@planetmaker>s/address/mails
11:00<+glx>but translator managing could be simpler (probably)
11:00<andythenorth>the reason I am not offering is that I don't read emails :P
11:00<@planetmaker>obviously I look at those e-mails every few months... but that's too infrequently
11:04<@planetmaker>29 since 2nd February
11:08<andythenorth>29 genuine?
11:08<@planetmaker>29 genuine mails to translators, yes
11:08<@planetmaker>compared to previous years that sounds like very few, though
11:09<@planetmaker>but that's the current status
11:09<@planetmaker>And I just deleted like the same or slightly more spam mails since that date
11:10<andythenorth>is it documented what to do when a translation request is received?
11:10<andythenorth>could literally be policy in the main repo
11:11<@planetmaker>Not sure it's written down. But http://translator.openttd.org/ tells people "mail us to have the translation manager grant you access"
11:12<@planetmaker>so the translation manager reads mail (looking for account name quoted), opens phpldapadmin, and assigns requested language(s) to that account. commit. answer e-mail with "you are now translator. you might need to re-login for this to take effect"
11:13<@planetmaker>don't try to open the list of all users, though. It's too many, it will time out :P
11:14<@planetmaker>you need to search for the username :)
11:14<@planetmaker>(or e-mail, whatever identifies a user)
11:14*andythenorth wonders about adding that to CONTRIBUTING.md
11:16<frosch123>it's a somewhat trustworthy job
11:16<frosch123>you can't give that to a stranger
11:16<andythenorth>it was asked about a few times in this channel in last ~1 year
11:16<andythenorth>impression I got was that it was a mystery to most people who might be trusted
11:17<andythenorth>or I misunderstood TB
11:17<andythenorth>:D
11:17<frosch123>i think it's more about spam protection
11:18<frosch123>have no ln annoy you every second day
11:19<andythenorth>hmm, FIRS v4 by halloween? :)
11:19<@planetmaker>well, translation manager basically needs to be trustworthy as he has access to all personal information registered with OpenTTD since time beginning
11:20<frosch123>i am sure you can also assig other roles than just translators :)
11:21<@planetmaker>yes. I probably can change or add any other role. Never tried... phpldapadmin is scary... and not exactly user-friendly either ;)
11:37<nielsm>I could maybe try to set up an eints development environment here and try to add a kind of user management to it
11:41<TrueBrain>what you could do, is use GitHub authentication, and use a GitHub group per language to assign people
11:41<TrueBrain>saves you from building a user manager yourself
11:42<TrueBrain>(and the SSO of OpenTTD will be retired, hopefully before 2020, anyway; so replacing that for eints would be a huge step forwards)
11:42<TrueBrain>we just haven't talked really about if we want GitHub to be our central user manager, I guess :P
11:42<TrueBrain>just spitting ideas
11:42<+glx>ldap is used only for eints and bananas ?
11:43<TrueBrain>and some infra stuff, but yes
11:43*andythenorth mumbles about coop eints
11:43<andythenorth>and having two parallelt translators
11:43<andythenorth>one thing at a time andythenorth
11:43<+glx>using github as user manager doesn't seem wrong
11:44<TrueBrain>and yes, andythenorth, I am always very vague who the "translation manager" is, as otherwise people will start bugging people personally, instead of the group as a whole
11:44<+glx>translation requests could even be done in issues
11:44<TrueBrain>or you could even make a repository with .csv files per language stating who has access
11:44<TrueBrain>means the PR needs to be approved
11:44<andythenorth>if it's a role to be followed, not a talent, then it should have a process :D
11:45<TrueBrain>I tend to use PR approval for everything that needs a second person looking at it :D
11:45<TrueBrain>saves me from inventing my own system time after time :P
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11:45<TrueBrain>anyway,foodz
11:48<nielsm>okay if the openttd ldap is meant to be retired "some time soon" then it may not be worth it trying to expand eints to have user management
11:49<TrueBrain>It is already overdue, basically :(
11:51<+glx>github authentication and a way to link github user to allowed languages should be easier to manage
11:53<+glx>and probably more transparent to translators so they could know who are the other translators for their languages
11:53<TrueBrain>Possibly that even means translators find a way to talk to each other :D
11:53<TrueBrain>:D
11:59<nielsm>could maybe also have the language changes be submitted to the repos with the translator's identity instead of as eints alone
12:00<nielsm>though that would mean multiple commits on multiple language changes
12:00<nielsm>* on multiple languages changed
12:01<+glx>IIRC details are in the commit message
12:01<TrueBrain>A commit can have multiple authors
12:02<TrueBrain>Not a bad idea tbh, credit where credit is due
12:02<nielsm>well it'd seem weird if I end up co-credited for the russian translation just because that happened to be updated the same day as I updated the danish one
12:03<+glx>with details in the message it should be ok
12:04<+glx>it's like a PR squash
12:05<TrueBrain>A commit per author per day would also not be bad
12:05<TrueBrain>It is not like it will make many more commits
12:05<nielsm>yes I think per-author per-day would be the cleanest history wise
12:05<TrueBrain>Possibly you could look at it and show how that would look?
12:05<nielsm>clear credit for who did what
12:05<+glx>per-language could be enough
12:06<TrueBrain>I would do per author
12:06<nielsm>well multiple authors on one language in one day gets slightly tricky then
12:06<nielsm>you'd do multiple commits on the same file
12:06<nielsm>which would need the changes from just that user
12:07<nielsm>and handle cases where both translators touched the same lines
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12:08<nielsm>you'd kind of end up with eints needing to keep its own branch history for each line changed, and then construct a series of commits at the turn of the day based on a git blame kind of thing
12:09<+glx>only the latest change for a line is used at commit time
12:12<nielsm>but yeah an oauth based login and then storing user permissions in one/more files in the repo itself would probably work well
12:12<nielsm>https://developer.github.com/apps/building-oauth-apps/authorizing-oauth-apps/
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12:31<frosch123>i have a partial implementation of that
12:31<frosch123>if you want to continue it, just shout
12:34<@planetmaker>right... for now I handled all translation requests for this year up to now
12:34<frosch123>planetmaker: nice, thanks :)
12:35<@planetmaker>translation commits per author would IMHO be awesome. It would show more who did what work and how much. which can give incentive
12:39<andythenorth>+1
12:41<andythenorth>oof
12:41<andythenorth>crashed OpenTTD
12:42<+glx>what kind of crash ?
12:42<andythenorth>assert on NRT station tile
12:43<+glx>I hope you can repdroduce it
12:44<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxwecdxaa
12:44<andythenorth>dunno if reproducible
12:44<andythenorth>also patched client
12:44<andythenorth>I wish crash reports didn't leak half my system auth creds by default
12:45<andythenorth>yup it reproduces
12:47<andythenorth>trying to set an order to a specific roadstop asserts
12:48<andythenorth>it's not widespread
12:51<andythenorth>savegame uses patched client and unreleased grfs, so I doubt it's useful
12:55<nielsm>is it the creation of the order that crashes?
12:55<nielsm>or the vehicle attempted to begin pathing to the destination?
12:55<nielsm>or the vehicle arriving at the destination?
12:56<+glx>the stacktrace is not very helpful
13:04<andythenorth>it repros, so I can LLDB it or something
13:04<andythenorth>if someone flys alongside :P
13:05<+glx>knowing where the call happens should help :)
13:08*andythenorth reads the LLDB docs
13:08<+glx>I guess it's similar to gdb
13:09<andythenorth>ok so I need to inspect the stack during the crash?
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13:10<andythenorth>oh lolz, I remember it has this 'bug' where LLDB it causes the system beep to repeat endlessly, and doesn't respect mute
13:14<andythenorth>ok so after I trigger the assert
13:14<+glx>type bt
13:14<+glx>or bt all
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13:15<+glx>but bt should be enough
13:16<andythenorth>looks like it's all just the crash handler
13:17<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwinovgjk/q8ck6r/raw
13:19<+glx>nothing exploitable there
13:19<andythenorth>yeah
13:20<andythenorth>so what now, try and insert more logging and crap to the line that crashes?
13:20<nielsm>maybe the assert fires another thread to do the warning thing
13:20*andythenorth no clue about these things
13:20<nielsm>so the real error is on a different thread
13:20<andythenorth>https://lldb.llvm.org/use/tutorial.html#loading-a-program-into-lldb
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13:22<nielsm>yeah try "thread list" next time you have the error
13:22<nielsm>see what threads exist
13:22<+glx>but bt all lists all threads
13:22<nielsm>actually just try "thread backtrace all"
13:23<nielsm>oh...
13:23<andythenorth>tthat's the paste above :)
13:23<nielsm>I didn't read it well
13:24<andythenorth>given Assertion failed at line 32 of OpenTTD.andythenorth/src/station_map.h: IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)
13:24<andythenorth>can I insert a line of code there to dump the stack?
13:25<nielsm>not quite
13:25<andythenorth>or someone can have the savegame, and all the grfs, and the link to the PR I'm testing, and instructions :P
13:25<nielsm>you should try setting a breakpoint or a tracepoint at it
13:25<nielsm>if you can set a conditional breakpoint that might be best
13:26<+glx>is it a debug build ?
13:26<andythenorth>it can be
13:27<+glx>ah, yeah try a debug build
13:27*andythenorth food
13:28<+glx>optimisations in release build don't go well with debuggers
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13:37<andythenorth>is debug build a configure option, or just -d on run?
13:37<@peter1138>configure
13:38<andythenorth>google can't find it :P
13:38<@peter1138>./configure --help
13:38<frosch123>./configure --enable-debug=3
13:39<andythenorth>boom
13:39<andythenorth>thanks
13:41<frosch123>you can also try setting breakpoints
13:41<frosch123>sometimes "break __assert_fail" works
13:41<frosch123>but probably compiler-specific
13:46<andythenorth>this is better
13:46<+glx>breakpoint set --name GetStationIndex --condition '!IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)'
13:47<+glx>should work if I understand the doc
13:47<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p0qextttl/2bokhw/raw
13:47<andythenorth>lot more stack there
13:47<+glx>ah it's better with a debug build :)
13:52<andythenorth>this occurs when I try to route an RV to a roadstop
13:53<@peter1138>I wouldn't do that if I were you
13:55<+glx>hmm looking at the code it really should MP_STATION, unless it's an MP_INDUSTRY
13:56<+glx>can you display the tile type ?
13:58<+glx>only thing I can see is an incorrect st->xy
13:58<frosch123>st->xy is the position of the station sign, it does not need to be a station tile at all
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14:03<frosch123>so, yeah, that code is new, and it is wrong
14:03<frosch123>if was "tile" before, not "st->xy"
14:05<frosch123>i guess the fix is s/GetStationIndex(st->xy)/s->index/
14:06<nielsm>it'd actually be pretty easy to make a station whose sign is on a tile belonging to a different station
14:07<andythenorth>station tile moved at this station btw AIUI
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14:08<nielsm>https://0x0.st/zvtw.png
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>so, did i miss anything?
14:13<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7754: [OSX] Small fixes of older code parts. https://git.io/JeneI
14:18<LordAro>someone pls merge #7630
14:19<frosch123>andythenorth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phgyjhwi3?/phgyjhwi3
14:20<nielsm>LordAro: looking at it now
14:22<andythenorth>frosch123: works
14:22<andythenorth>no assert
14:22<andythenorth>hi Eddi|zuHause
14:26<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9 https://git.io/Jenes
14:29<nielsm>LordAro: sorry :)
14:29<LordAro>:>
14:31<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7754: [OSX] Small fixes of older code parts. https://git.io/JeZNz
14:33<LordAro>nielsm: pretty sure it should actually be lengthof(...) * sizeof(uint32)
14:33<LordAro>...which is the same as sizeof for an array, isn't it?
14:33<nielsm>then you're repeating yourself
14:33<LordAro>bit clearer though, perhaps :)
14:33<nielsm>lengthof(x) is defined as sizeof(x)/sizeof(x[0])
14:34<LordAro>yeah
14:34<nielsm>alternatively, switch it for a std::array like that one other place in the code :D
14:34<+michi_cc>We do have a typed MemCpyT...
14:35<nielsm>or use that one
14:35<LordAro>nielsm: i like that one better :)
14:37<LordAro>nielsm: alternatively, make it a vector and remove textref_stack_size at the same time
14:37<LordAro>but maybe that's getting a bit out of scope
14:39<LordAro>or maybe make it a std::stack, given that's in the name...
14:41<nielsm>std::stack is an adapter type iirc
14:41<LordAro>yeah
14:42<andythenorth>what if industries don't produce until town population is > n?
14:42*andythenorth still trying to make town cargos purposeful
14:42<LordAro>anyway, one of the constructors passes in a pointer, so i'll just use sizeof and figure something else out later
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14:46<LordAro>hrm
14:46<LordAro>./configure --with-sdl=1 should work, right?
14:48<milek7>--with-sdl=sdl1
14:48<LordAro>doesn't seem to work either
14:49<LordAro>oh hang on, why am i trying to use sdl? i'm on mingw
14:49<LordAro>must've been testing something before
14:51<LordAro>ooh, new warning in the midi driver
14:51<LordAro>i'll fix that while i'm here
14:57<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9 https://git.io/fjo5z
15:01<Samu>my ai wins again. I think WormnestAndroid uses other settings which makes my ai look bad :( https://imgur.com/xZzNayz
15:04<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7630#pullrequestreview-294697057
15:12<Samu>https://imgur.com/jsEB3oy this image doesn't hide some numbers
15:14<Samu>got a small screen :(
15:19<Samu>something weird WormAI is doing lately
15:19<Samu>is selling aircraft
15:20<Samu>seems to be closing air routes, it shows profits declining
15:20<+glx>LordAro: on mingw I'm more on the --without-sdl side
15:21<+glx>because I installed sdl1 and sdl2 to test the detection when updating the cmake branch
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15:23<Samu>it had 86 aircraft before, if I recall, now it's down to 71
15:24<Samu>there was a recession inbetween, i wonder if that is affecting it
15:25<LordAro>glx: that's what i did
15:27<Samu>hmm, of the 4 best AIs, WormAI had the worst recovery post recession upturn
15:28<Samu>green had the best recovery, it's nearly catching up WormAI in profits atm
15:30<Samu>green = RailwAI
15:30<andythenorth>frosch123: should I PR that?
15:30<andythenorth>or does it need more investigation?
15:31<+glx>I think we did all the investigation
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15:34<frosch123>andythenorth: i will, in a while
15:37<andythenorth>thx :)
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16:03<frosch123>hmm, first time using git since debian upgrade
16:03<frosch123>git or the commit hooks give me a weird error message
16:03<frosch123>i wonder what changed :p
16:05<frosch123>hmm, GIT_DIR is no longer set when invocing the hooks
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16:14<frosch>https://stackoverflow.com/questions/53121208/git-dir-no-longer-set-in-pre-commit-hooks
16:14<frosch>so, our commit hooks do no longer work with git 2.18+
16:14<LordAro>interesting
16:14<andythenorth>oof
16:14<LordAro>do they error, or just silently fail?
16:15<LordAro>because michi_cc(?) noticed that the message checker apparently wasn't working the other day..
16:15<frosch>our scripts test whether GIT_DIR is set, and the print an error message
16:15<frosch>to stderr
16:15<frosch>however, my new debian stable has git 2.20, so 2.18 is not *new*
16:16<frosch>it writes "Don't run this script from the command line." to stderr and then fails with exitcod 1
16:16<frosch>so, it should reject everything?
16:17-!-frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:17<LordAro>hmm
16:17<+glx>it was me LordAro
16:17<frosch>i think the commit-checker invokes the scripts differently
16:17<frosch>so it should not be affected
16:18<LordAro>right
16:18<+glx>and the script works but seem to check only latest commit
16:20<frosch>https://github.com/OpenTTD/CompileFarm/blob/e9e512574a66b5a20f6608f6fbc822bf81d733ae/ci-commit-checker/files/run.sh#L16 <- the revision range is defined there
16:20<frosch>no idea where TARGET_BRANCH is set
16:21<+glx>it's set in the yaml
16:22<+glx>default to master, defined for non master PR
16:23<+glx>looking at https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7752/commits there's clearly something wrong as commit checker passed
16:27<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7749: Fix: Some typos found using codespell https://git.io/Jenv6
16:27<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7749: Fix: Some typos found using codespell https://git.io/JesfO
16:27<andythenorth>should industries require workers?
16:30<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign. https://git.io/JenvP
16:31<nielsm>andythenorth: maybe to cross certain production thresholds
16:32<andythenorth>I am trying to figure out how to make towns relevant
16:32<andythenorth>maybe I played too much OpenTTD :)
16:33<andythenorth>finally time to retire?
16:33<frosch>try the reverse? increase production when the town is small
16:33<frosch>favour deleting towns
16:33<andythenorth>there is a migrations GS that looks interesting
16:33<andythenorth>but Eddi's town layout patch crashes it :P
16:35<andythenorth>FIRS town cargos, I just don't bother delivering
16:35<Samu>WormAI built aircraft, finally
16:35<andythenorth>there is no purpose to towns, except to get in the way :)
16:36<Samu>make cities require less houses to upgrade in house quality
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16:37<Samu>making them expand less roads, but have more bigger houses
16:39<Samu>maybe a new town type, above cities
16:39<Samu>capitol or so
16:39<andythenorth>this was ideal, because above the snowline the towns are nerfed :P https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9380/Sesdingney%20Falls%20Transport,%2014-11-1996.png
16:40<Samu>ewww newgrfs
16:40<Samu>I never understand what's a station, what's a industry
16:41<frosch>glx: it works when i execute the hooks locally for 7752
16:42<frosch>TARGET_BRANCH is printed in the logs
16:43<frosch>so, no idea
16:44<+glx>hmm rebasing step looks wrong
16:45<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign. https://git.io/Jenvp
16:45<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign. https://git.io/Jenvh
16:46<andythenorth>hurrah
16:46<frosch>it's a race :p
16:46<@planetmaker>:P
16:46<andythenorth>are big maps fun?
16:46<@planetmaker>I leave it to you though to merge it
16:46<@planetmaker>:)
16:46*andythenorth needs something to jazz up openttd
16:46<@planetmaker>long maps are fun
16:46<LordAro>andythenorth: turn the music on
16:47<+glx>hmm "Note: switching to 'refs/remotes/pull/7752/merge'." used to be head, not merge IIRC
16:47<+glx>in the checkout step
16:47<andythenorth>mmm music
16:48<andythenorth>also, I should stop playing FIRS Basic economies
16:48<andythenorth>but I have to play test changes :P
16:48<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign. https://git.io/JenvP
16:48<andythenorth>industries need pax?
16:48<andythenorth>industries check town register for pax transport?
16:48<andythenorth>pax = supplies?
16:49<andythenorth>change town black holes to processors, cargo in, waste out?
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16:49<arikover>hi
16:49<andythenorth>change all industry production to be proportional to town popn?
16:50<arikover>andythenorth: did you try the Migration GS?
16:51<frosch>you joined 4 minutes too late :p
16:51<Samu>in TTD, the end year was 2050
16:52<Samu>why is it 2051 in OTTD?
16:52<andythenorth>yes, but migration GS crashed near game start
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16:56<Samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7747/files#diff-e78c02ff7bfe118121162c72ff0be5f3R203 i disagree with this + 1
16:58<Samu>also static const Year ORIGINAL_END_YEAR = 2051; should be 2050 too
16:58<Samu>to make it like TTD
16:59<nielsm>Samu: does TTD end when the date turns to jan 1st 2050, or when it turns to jan 1st 2051 ?
16:59<nielsm>I'm pretty sure it's the latter
16:59<Samu>to jan 1st 2050
16:59<FLHerne>FWIW: https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/davh7b/how_do_i_edit_grfs/
16:59<FLHerne>I find the complaints...odd
17:01<Samu>I dont know how to edit newgrfs, either
17:02<LordAro>Samu: reminder that everything you say here will be forgotten, if you want to comment on the issue, comment on it
17:02<andythenorth>we have a discord?
17:02<LordAro>reddit has a discord
17:03<andythenorth>oh this :) https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/da4ikp/excuse_me/
17:04<Samu>2050 is already past the score screen
17:05<Samu>in TTD
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17:07<Samu>openttd logic is "At the end of this year,", ttd logic is "at the start of this year"
17:07<Samu>not sure if it's worth complaining about it
17:07<andythenorth>hmm how do I reddit?
17:08<andythenorth>is reddit the new forums or what?
17:08<Samu>but k i 'll post
17:08<LordAro>andythenorth: memes, usually
17:08<andythenorth>I don't have a reddit account
17:08<LordAro>andythenorth: probably for the best
17:08<frosch>reddit is the new youtube comment section
17:09<andythenorth>I feel like I should answer this https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/cwo7z5/why_was_firs_toned_back_a_little/
17:09<frosch>various channel disable youtube comments entirely and link to reddit instead
17:09<andythenorth>did you know there are 2 kinds of YT comments?
17:09<@planetmaker>well... discord... exists
17:09<frosch>"first"
17:09<frosch>what's the other one?
17:09<andythenorth>there are the YT comments that I could write an autogenerator for
17:09<andythenorth>trivially
17:10<andythenorth>and there are YT comments of actually nice people sharing information and appreciation
17:10<andythenorth>it really depends on the video
17:13<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/Jenf8
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17:19<LordAro>i made some comments
17:19<LordAro>this may backfire
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17:19<LordAro>(in FLHerne's link)
17:20<FLHerne>https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/davh7b/how_do_i_edit_grfs/f1x0q0e/
17:21<FLHerne>I tried to write constructive instructions, can someone sanity-check them?
17:22<LordAro>FLHerne: the dropdown recognises OS
17:23<FLHerne>LordAro: Oh, neat
17:23<FLHerne>[I've edited out that sentence]
17:24<LordAro>FLHerne: LGTM
17:24<LordAro>oh, s/pallette/palette/
17:24<LordAro>(not that i've ever done any GRF dev work)
17:24<LordAro>(but it looks sane)
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17:27<Eddi|zuHause>"can be painfully blunt at times" <- or maybe just german? :p
17:28<LordAro>:p
17:28<LordAro>lost in translations in general, i think
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17:31<andythenorth>'toxic' can sometimes be snowflake code for 'confronts me'
17:31<andythenorth>and sometimes it just means toxic
17:32<FLHerne>LordAro: Fixed
17:33<andythenorth>first time I came in this channel, I nearly quit
17:33<andythenorth>but then I remembered how usenet used to be :P
17:35<FLHerne>Do we still have webchat here?
17:35<@planetmaker>you can use whatever means to connect to IRC
17:36<FLHerne>Well, yeah
17:36<frosch>FLHerne: https://webchat.oftc.net/?channels=openttd.dev
17:36<frosch>err, minus the ".dev"
17:36<frosch>that one is dead :p
17:36<FLHerne>frosch: Thanks
17:37<andythenorth>loving this multi-dock thing
17:41<FLHerne>andythenorth: Please do, I have basically the same question :-)
17:42<andythenorth>?
17:42<andythenorth>oh the FIRS question
17:43<andythenorth>afaict, it's conflating ECS and FIRS
17:43<andythenorth>Extreme hasn't changed much
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17:46<spnda>Just a heads up. http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/LATEST/rpms/ is unavailable
17:46<FLHerne>I remember having some unhappiness about the farms in FIRS 2 (3?), but now I can't remember exactly what
17:46<FLHerne>So perhaps it wasn't important anyway :P
17:47<andythenorth>I removed clustering
17:47<andythenorth>and increased production a lot
17:47<frosch>spnda: no idea where you got that link from, but i don't think there have been rpms in quite some years
17:48<frosch>remove the "rpms" and get the tar.gz
17:48<spnda>frosch, then you should update the NML installation guide
17:48<frosch>link?
17:48<spnda>https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Installation
17:49<spnda>Under Linux
17:49<spnda>Also, http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/LATEST/ doesn't have any windows compiled binary download
17:50<FLHerne>On the same lines, I just realized that https://github.com/OpenTTD/grfcodec still links to openttdcoop (and a presumably-obsolete IRC channel)
17:50<spnda>The only way to get a precompiled binary of nml right now is http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/releases/0.4.5/
17:51<spnda>for windows atleast
17:52<frosch>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/push/v6948-447/ <- there is a newer one
17:52<frosch>but year, it broke afterwards somehow
17:53<spnda>so, LATEST/ isn't actually latest?
17:54<frosch>it is, but it does not contain windows
17:54<frosch>i linked the second latest
17:54<spnda>oh ok
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18:53<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/JenJa
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19:22<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/JenJb
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>i seem to have developed this habit of building stations with too few platforms...
19:25<+glx>and the town built around the station when you notice it
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19:37<Eddi|zuHause>correct
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21:12<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/JenT4
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21:50<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/JenTi
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 30 00:00:36 2019