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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-10-04

---Logopened Fri Oct 04 00:00:42 2019
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01:29<Pikka>css for industry window extra text!
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02:40<andythenorth>Pikka industries done? :)
02:40<Pikka>pretty much!
02:41<andythenorth>are there chickens?
02:41<Pikka>I got a first placeholder in and set up the extra window text, so...
02:41<Pikka>no chickens. Vegetarian newgrf!
02:41<andythenorth>0F 0C 00 0A 10 FF FF
02:43<andythenorth>did a thing
02:43<andythenorth>I don't like gaps in industries
02:43<andythenorth>but I need a lot of separate stations
02:43<Pikka>\2<< 1a 20 \d16 \2+ ... nfo's come a long way ;)
02:44<andythenorth>add a constant pre-processor and you can also use real words :P
02:44<Pikka>that's crazy talk :)
02:46<andythenorth>really don't like industry gaps though, looks like 2 separate industries :P
02:47<Pikka>especially if you cluster similar industries sometimes
02:48<andythenorth>which I do :P
02:48*andythenorth deletes that code
02:49<andythenorth>no gaps
03:08<Pikka>so, industries have mini gs-like "goals" to increase production (or in some cases do other things), is good?
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03:11<Pikka>along with the limited resources and more complicated feedback chains, trying to make building routes a little less fire-and-forget. Stockpile limits are gone, though, no-one liked those. ;)
03:23<andythenorth>I did the first few games
03:24<andythenorth>it's interesting for a bit to have to find another destination
03:24<andythenorth>it does wear out though :)
03:24<andythenorth>let me know how the level up mechanic goes :)
03:25<andythenorth>been considering it for FIRS
03:30<Pikka>I will. Particularly for gses like silicon valley, I thought it would be nice to have some production increase mechanics other than just expanding the network, innit.
03:31<Pikka>and feedback loops... coalmine feeds powerplant, powerplant powers factory, goods boost coal production, etc
03:34<andythenorth>you doing town registers?
03:34<Pikka>that's the plan. Seems to work well for the houses :)
03:36<andythenorth>such register
03:36<andythenorth>maybe one day FIRS Electricity Edition
03:36*andythenorth got distracted by 16 cargo industries
03:37<andythenorth>very cargoflow
03:37<andythenorth>such in-out
03:37<Pikka>and totally doable in NFO as it turns out
03:37<Pikka>even though grfcodec doesn't like it :)
03:38<andythenorth>is it angry?
03:38<andythenorth>16 cargos was tested with it :)
03:39<Pikka>it just doesn't know about the properties, or the production callback version. Or anything since 2016 :)
03:44<andythenorth>containers have gone big in straya
03:44<andythenorth>forums says
03:46<Pikka>ew, containers
03:47<andythenorth>I should do more
03:47<Pikka>are they fun to do?
03:49<andythenorth>for a bit yes
03:51<andythenorth>the code makes 300 types of container from 33 templates
03:51<andythenorth>quite lolz
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04:11<andythenorth>oof, bigger station catchments?
04:11<andythenorth>can't get enough stations around industries
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04:17<Pikka>one for each cargo?
04:17<andythenorth>pretty much
04:19<andythenorth>one dropoff for all cargos, but pickup needs split
04:19<andythenorth>for routing, cdist and station cargo display reasons
04:21<andythenorth>oh that screenshot has a problem
04:21<andythenorth>no zellepins
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09:56<andythenorth>nielsm: was it you who suggested making smaller block layouts for industries, and repeating them in different configurations? o_O
09:57<andythenorth>I'm going to try it compile-side in newgrf
09:57<andythenorth>I can make an (x, y) tile transposer for sub-layouts
09:58<nielsm>generating a large number of layouts from smaller elements?
09:58<nielsm>yeah might be interesting
09:58<andythenorth>probably negatively affects compile time
09:58<andythenorth>but I think it's interesting
09:58<nielsm>I don't think ottd is tested with industries with a large number of layouts
10:03*andythenorth considers
10:03<andythenorth>4 coast directions
10:03<andythenorth>4 layouts for each
10:03<andythenorth>not too bad
10:12<@peter1138>Was it lunch?
10:12<@peter1138>Was it NewGRF docks?
10:12<@peter1138>Or some kinda of state machine.
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10:53<andythenorth>there was lunch
10:53<andythenorth>docks on flat ground would be nice
10:54<andythenorth>docks on water maybe also
10:54*andythenorth considers the canal hack for that though
10:54<andythenorth>maybe I'm ass backwards
10:54<andythenorth>the dock's always on water, no?
10:54<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
10:59<@peter1138>Don't be silly.
11:00<andythenorth>I should go back to GDPR and stuff
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11:47<nielsm>there's something I wrote just now
12:02<andythenorth>nielsm: looks interesting, I am about to go afk
12:03<andythenorth>BIAB :)
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13:20<Kitrana>so question about station ratings. it says it the percentage is rating/255 does that mean that if your station rating is 255 that you are getting 1% of the cargo?
13:23<_dp_>Kitrana, 255 is 100%
13:26<nielsm>one percent is 0.01
13:26<nielsm>hundred percent is 1.00
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13:45<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
13:45<DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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14:10<nielsm>okay let's see how much this explodes
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14:12<andythenorth>nielsm: the distance between sub-layouts is delegated to OpenTTD? o_O
14:14<andythenorth>on the one hand I feel this can already be done in newgrf spec
14:14<andythenorth>especially if I write a python layout generator
14:14<andythenorth>on the other hand
14:15<andythenorth>it's a lot of work for every industry, and FIRS has 88 industries
14:15<andythenorth>and not every newgrf author can write a layout generator
14:15<andythenorth>and compile time
14:16<nielsm>and resulting bloat
14:16<andythenorth>possibly this approach would even reduce current layout definitions
14:17<andythenorth>I'm trying to figure out bigger industries, because
14:18<andythenorth>with 4 or 5 output cargos, I need 4 or 5 pickup stations :D
14:19<nielsm>yeah if e.g. a port like that had the main building on a shoreline, and then a bunch of auxillary buildings on the land behind it, it'd be easier to catch with more stations
14:20<andythenorth>I tried that though, something is problematic with having buildings on water and on land
14:20<andythenorth>I can't get it to build at all
14:20<andythenorth>I didn't read the spec properly for 'build on water' yet :P
14:21<andythenorth>prop 1A bit 2
14:21<nielsm>right now I'm trying to "clean up" the industry tile layout code to use C++ containers instead of raw pointers and implicit arrays
14:22<andythenorth>housekeeping :)
14:22*andythenorth explores industry_cmd.cpp
14:22<andythenorth>I've spent more time in that file than all the rest of openttd src combined :P
14:22<nielsm>seems to "almost work", except I got a memory allocator bugcheck error on exit
14:22<nielsm>so something might have attempted to free() memory belonging to a std::vector
14:24<andythenorth>L1438, seems that if industry sets water check, tile needs to be flat and water
14:24<nielsm>now to test whether it can load and place some FIRS, ECS, or other industries :D
14:24<andythenorth>wonder how I'm doing coast slopes :P
14:25<andythenorth>heh, not sure I'll ever learn to read C++ fluidly :)
14:25<nielsm>line 1453
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>coast slopes are tiles that are water and not flat
14:26<andythenorth>ok so if the industry water flag is set, non-water tiles aren't possible
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>well, they could be river slopes
14:27<andythenorth>hah there is a FIRS bug someone showed me with that
14:27<andythenorth>can't remember the case
14:27<andythenorth>but there's a configuration with a lake behind a coast, that causes ports to be build facing inland
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>there's a water class you probably can check
14:27<nielsm>this does not look like a map with FIRS...
14:28<andythenorth>that is not a recent FIRS :)
14:28<nielsm>every industry is an iron ore mine
14:28<nielsm>it does actually have the FIRS logic, it's just there are no other industry types built
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>clustering going overboard?
14:30<nielsm>nope, just every other industry type fails with no reason
14:30<nielsm>"cannot construct this industry here..." and nothing more
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14:37<nielsm>okay looks like most industry types get zero layouts, so I made an oops in the newgrf parsing code
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14:41<nielsm>silly mistake
14:43<nielsm>was validating the layouts wrong so every layout got rejected
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14:45<nielsm>and I know what's going wrong with the memory allocators
14:47<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7726: Prepare for 1.10.0-beta1 release
14:49<nielsm>LordAro: merge conflicts in known-bugs.txt
14:50<LordAro>but i rebased onto master...
14:50<nielsm>you left merge conflict text in
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>you didn't properly update master?
14:50<LordAro>it only told me about changelog!
14:50<LordAro>CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in known-bugs.txt
14:50<LordAro>oh wait
14:50<LordAro>i just didn't read it
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14:52<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7726: Prepare for 1.10.0-beta1 release
14:55<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7726: Prepare for 1.10.0-beta1 release
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15:04<nielsm>inline auto _Unfancy(_Ptrty _Ptr) { // converts from a fancy pointer to a plain pointer
15:04<Kitrana2>what exactly does current useage in vehicle lists mean?
15:04<nielsm>Kitrana2: average full-ness out of total capacity
15:04<nielsm>cargo capacity
15:05<Kitrana2>i can;t ever seem to get mine above 50 for boats
15:06<nielsm>if they're going full one way and empty the other, about 50% usage sounds right
15:18<nielsm>ugh all this memset and memcpy is making std containers unhappy
15:18<nielsm>this looks much more like it yes:
15:20<andythenorth>such a retro FIRS :)
15:21<andythenorth>also \o/
15:21<nielsm>gotta start with something simple!
15:23<nielsm>now let's try with ECS
15:25<+glx>ECS has many silly requirements
15:25<+glx>worse being tourist centers
15:25<nielsm>yeah I see some bauxite mines here that fit to specific slopes
15:31<andythenorth>there was an idea about industries terraforming specific slope configurations
15:31<andythenorth>but I think it's overkill :)
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15:39<LordAro>nielsm: that does not seem like a nice function
15:46<nielsm>microsoft STL is not very nice
15:48<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7759: Codechange: Use std::vector for industry tile layouts
15:51<+glx>haha I like the last sentence :)
15:54<nielsm>it seems ECS agricultural is the one causing problems
15:56<nielsm>but may/may not relate to the missing industry name in "failed to place" errors
15:58<+glx>some newgrf can provide incorrect string args, we added checks for some of them but it's hard to be complete
16:09<+glx>maybe similar to but for industries name
16:10<nielsm>it happens even with default industries
16:10<nielsm>e.g. forests on arctic maps without snow
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16:21<nielsm>okay the (undefined string) problem seems to be probably not related to my changes
16:22<+glx>launched msvc to try :)
16:22<nielsm>since with the arctic forest, I can trace it first formats the string correct twice, then a third time does it wrong
16:22<nielsm>and I'm not sure I understand why it needs to format the same string three times or more for a single use
16:22<+glx>just need arctic with no snow ?
16:22<nielsm>yeah arctic and not hilly
16:23<+glx>I think one of the format call is to determine the string size
16:23<+glx>there's one for the actual drawing too
16:24<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7759: Codechange: Use std::vector for industry tile layouts
16:25<+glx>I should clean my newgrf dir someday, starting openttd is so slow
16:25<nielsm>yep same bug in master
16:25<nielsm>(undefined string)
16:25<nielsm>haha yes
16:28<+glx>yeah (undefined string) without crash
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>"also works [...] when it doesn't crash". tautologies are being tautological today.
16:30<nielsm>Eddi|zuHause: it could produce errors that are not crash errors
16:30<nielsm>or other incorrect behaviour
16:32<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7759: Codechange: Use std::vector for industry tile layouts
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16:58<+glx>in the console the error message is correct
16:59<+glx>the param disparition seems to happen at error_gui.cpp:423
17:01<+glx>hmm a recent change happened it this file IIRC
17:03<+glx>anyway ErrorMessageData::ErrorMessageData(const ErrorMessageData &data) feels really wrong
17:04<LordAro>looks like a copy constructor to me
17:05<+glx>yes but parameters are not properly copied
17:05<LordAro>i plead ignorance
17:05<+glx>not your fault
17:05<+glx> if (this->strings[i] != nullptr) {
17:05<+glx> this->strings[i] = stredup(this->strings[i]);
17:05<+glx> this->decode_params[i] = (size_t)this->strings[i];
17:05<+glx> }
17:06<+glx>I think I found it :)
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>uh, what?
17:08<+glx>let's try with a little codechange
17:20<+glx>hmm seems it's finaly related to your change LordAro
17:22<LordAro>it did seem familiar
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17:25<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7760: Fix 71a3e8346: decode_params need to be copied too
17:26<+glx>was easy :)
17:27<LordAro>glx: shouldn't the line in the loop be removed as well?
17:27<+glx>no because it updates the pointer
17:27<+glx>in the arg list
17:27<LordAro>oh i see
17:27<+glx>I first misunderstood that part too :)
17:28<LordAro>it's a bit weird
17:28<LordAro>maybe a comment :)
17:29<+glx>the string system is weird ;)
17:29<LordAro>very much so
17:30<+glx>but raw strings are stored in strings[] and accessed as decode_params
17:30<nielsm>glx, perhaps use MemCpyT<> instead?
17:30<+glx>like other params
17:30<nielsm>or even just assign it in the initializer list?
17:31<+glx>hmm looks like this has been discussed in the previous commit too :)
17:31<nielsm>since it's an array and not a pointer, this->decode_params = data.decode_params; ought to work I think
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17:40<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7760: Fix 71a3e8346: decode_params need to be copied too
17:40<+glx>nielsm: would be nice if it worked, but it doesn't
17:41<+glx>it's a C-style array
17:42<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7760: Fix 71a3e8346: decode_params need to be copied too
17:42<+glx>now you can test in your branch :)
17:45<nielsm>fixes (hides?) the ecs agr vector crash too
17:46<nielsm>I should run with extra grf debugging enabled to see if that callback failure logs something else somewhere
17:46<LordAro>error: no match for 'operator<' (operand types are 'std::_Rb_tree_const_iterator<unsigned int>' and 'std::set<unsigned int>::iterator' {aka 'std::_Rb_tree_const_iterator<unsigned int>'})
17:46<LordAro>i love C++
17:47*andythenorth must to sleep :P
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17:49<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7759: Codechange: Use std::vector for industry tile layouts
17:49<+glx>maybe ECS agr vector generates a custom error message, and as params were not passed...
17:50<nielsm>maybe yes
17:50<nielsm>it was crashing on attempting to utf8 decode a nullptr
17:50<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7759: Codechange: Use std::vector for industry tile layouts
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17:56<nielsm>sometimes I want a !< operator
17:56<nielsm>just a different way of spelling >= but sometimes expressing the bounds check better
17:57<nielsm>if (i !< lengthof(thing)) ...
17:57<nielsm>if (!(i < lengthof(thing))) ...
17:59<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7759: Codechange: Use std::vector for industry tile layouts
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18:00<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7759: Codechange: Use std::vector for industry tile layouts
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18:05<LordAro>nielsm: of course technically, there could be a difference between operator< & operator>=
18:05<+glx>indeed newgrf can return custom errors, that can be displayed during DoCommand()
18:08<nielsm>LordAro oh yes, someone might have defined >= as a "funnel operator"
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18:09<nielsm>and <= might be the "bowl and faucet" operator
18:11<nielsm>also need to find a way to define -!- as the "broken minus" operator
18:12<nielsm>or maybe you could call it a closed valve operator
18:13<nielsm>-*- would be the turn valve operator
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18:25<Eddi|zuHause>then what's the ^.^ operator?
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>or the =^^= operator?
18:25<frosch123>we already had the elvis operator this week
18:25<nielsm>I don't think those are possible syntax
18:26<LordAro>alas, the '.' cannot be overridden
18:28<nielsm>and there is no prefix or suffix unary operator=
18:28<LordAro>^-^ is possible though
18:29<LordAro>ah, no, must be binary
18:29<frosch123>at some point there was a patch/suggestion to add "%" for mirroring roadbits
18:30<frosch123>luckily it was rejected
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18:32<nielsm>bool operator >= (std::vector<CargoPacket> &cargo, Industry &ind) { /* deliver cargo to industry */ }
18:32<LordAro>(also oh god no)
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't >> be more fitting for that?
18:33<LordAro>would be more in keeping with the STL
18:33<nielsm>no the cargo needs to go through a funnel
18:35<nielsm>the main issue with the interrobang operator is that you need a colon somewhere later
18:36<nielsm>and I can't think of a good use for it
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>?! or !?
18:37<nielsm>you can't place a ! before a ?
18:38<nielsm>vehicle == nullptr?! a : b
18:39<nielsm>vehicle == nullptr?! haha :D
18:39<nielsm>for appropriate declarations of haha and D
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18:45<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7759: Codechange: Use std::vector for industry tile layouts
18:45<frosch123>oh, did i already rant about c++20 adding "october/5/2019" for setting dates in source
18:46<nielsm>yeah uh... that's dumb
18:57<+glx>yeah and using the silly order
18:57<+glx>mdy is the worse
18:58<nielsm>it's just to allow suffixless numbers to be used
18:59<nielsm>when you start with a constant that represents a month you can overload operator / to create a yearless date
19:00<nielsm>how about that
19:00<frosch123>how often do you need fixed dates in the source? date(y, m, d) would suffice
19:00<nielsm>(I forget if that's the possible syntax or if you need the _ before the suffix)
19:00<nielsm>yeah it seems a very pointless exercise all in all
19:01<LordAro> this is definitely getting silly now
19:01<nielsm>a dumb trick being codified into the standard library, like std::vector<bool>
19:02<LordAro>nielsm: you don't *need* it, but literals starting without a _ are reserved for the STL
19:02<LordAro>unless you turn that warning off, of course
19:02<milek7>2019Y-10M-5D looks like subtraction
19:05<LordAro>the above godbolt link requires gcc trunk, and clang just falls over entirely
19:05<LordAro>i'm not entirely sure who's parsing x² correctly...
19:07*glx is trying to understand what is <=> operator usage
19:08<frosch123>when you want to distinguish <, == and >
19:08<frosch123>and comparing twice is too expensive
19:09<LordAro>old c-style -1, 0, 1
19:09<frosch123>LordAro: i am still wondering what x² is doing exactly
19:09<LordAro>frosch123: i was trying to make a square operator
19:09<LordAro>works in gcc
19:09<frosch123>well, i understand the 56² and "sqrt(7)"²
19:10<frosch123>but what is x² in a declaration
19:10<+glx>oh <=> is like the C compare style
19:10<LordAro>frosch123: that was a different attempt
19:10<LordAro>that's probably a variable name
19:11<+glx>or x = 9²
19:11<frosch123>oh, right, unicode variable names
19:12<LordAro>seems like my ² only works with literals
19:12<+glx>unicode variable names will be fun with all the unicode spaces :)
19:13<frosch123>nothing commit-hooks can't fix :p
19:13<+glx>let's replace _ with NBSP in names :)
19:15<frosch123>i am more worried about compile-time debuggers, when they actually add metaclasses
19:17<nielsm>wow look at the time
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19:18<+glx>oh the new keywords will probably break some existing programs
19:19<+glx>I can see "concept" and "requires" as existing variable names in some source code
19:19<frosch123>they are no global keywords
19:19<frosch123>they are only special in the place where they can be used
19:19<+glx>ha like override
19:19<LordAro>be nice if they went all in and used yield and await instead of co_yield & co_await
19:20<LordAro>which is ugly as hell
19:20<+glx>it's to mark coroutines I guess
19:23<frosch123>LordAro: #define yield co_yield
19:24<LordAro>same as _Bool :p
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20:04<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kernigh opened issue #7761: is offline via IPv6
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>they should just abandon IPv6 as a failed experiment </andy>
20:08<DorpsGek_III>[OpenTTD/website] kernigh opened issue #101: is offline via IPv6
20:08<LordAro>(i transferred it)
20:11<+glx>I can confirm it's broken for me
20:11<LordAro>give TB a poke in the morning
20:12<LordAro>though he's probably got an email
20:13<+glx>and it's probably the proxy again
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20:15<+glx>bouncer is dead :)
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20:16<+glx>and so is logging of the channel
20:16<LordAro>quick, stop talking
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20:16<+glx>we can say some secret stuff
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20:19<+glx>haha your "Add: Me" commit
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 05 00:00:43 2019